Imran Khan our best bet after Pervez Musharraf: Ex-RAW chief AS Dulat on India-Pakistan ties

[MenInG]

day after Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan claimed that he has asked his government to ascertain the status of the 26/11 Mumbai attacks case in his country’s interest to resolve the matter, India’s former intelligence chief AS Dulat said that the head of state deserves a chance and time.

“Imran is our best bet after (former Pakistan president) general Pervez Musharraf. He may be a puppet in the hands of the Pakistani intelligence agency ISI or the army, but we need to give him time and a chance to prove his intentions,” said Dulat, a former chief of the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), at a session on the wisdom of spies during the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh on Saturday.

Lt Gen Kamal Davar (retd), the first director general of the Defence Intelligence Agency, agreed with Dulat on Imran, saying: “We feel he is a puppet but he is a self-respecting man. Don’t push him into a corner. He can change things in the subcontinent.”

“Musharraf was the villain of Kargil, but there has not been a more reasonable leader in Pakistan in 30 years. It’s sad that once he disappeared a lot less was done (for India-Pakistan ties),” said Dulat, who has co-authored a book, The Spy Chronicles: RAW, ISI and the Illusion of Peace, with former ISI chief Asad Durrani.

“Talks are the only way forward for both nuclear-armed nations. I would even suggest an institutional arrangement between the intelligence agencies of both countries,” he said.

Panellist Lt Gen Sanjiv Langer (retd) drew attention towards neighbouring China. “We should take a look in detail at China. It is a different paradigm,” he said.

KC Verma, a former R&AW director, moderated the session and said, “The Pakistan head of state does not know what the ISI is up to but the R&AW does not want that latitude. It belongs to the Indian government. An intelligence agency is an instrument of the state to be used for state purpose.”

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-...kistan-ties/story-F0HLNkGb4FYgxVrumZT0uO.html

 

[Devilsadvokat]

I think he has got it right.

 

[enkidu_]

I hope Imran doesn't fall for the trap.

 

[Hitman]

“Imran is our best bet after (former Pakistan president) general Pervez Musharraf. He may be a puppet in the hands of the Pakistani intelligence agency ISI or the army, but we need to give him time and a chance to prove his intentions,” said Dulat, a former chief of the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), at a session on the wisdom of spies during the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh on Saturday.

Lt Gen Kamal Davar (retd), the first director general of the Defence Intelligence Agency, agreed with Dulat on Imran, saying: “We feel he is a puppet but he is a self-respecting man. Don’t push him into a corner. He can change things in the subcontinent.”

LOL, strong words.

 

[Devilsadvokat]

I hope Imran doesn't fall for the trap.

Maybe the Israel Palestine equation is being played out here.

The European Jews were/are just more intelligent than the native Palestinians and as long as they bided there time...

Maybe Indians are just far too clever for the Pakistanis, not the same difference as Israel/Palestine but maybe over a much longer amount of time, the difference will tell.

 

[enkidu_]

Maybe the Israel Palestine equation is being played out here.

The European Jews were/are just more intelligent than the native Palestinians and as long as they bided there time...

Maybe Indians are just far too clever for the Pakistanis, not the same difference as Israel/Palestine but maybe over a much longer amount of time, the difference will tell.

Hindus aren't as clever as Jews at all (no group really is) and Pakistanis aren't as disarmed as Palestinians.

 

[Devilsadvokat]

Hindus aren't as clever as Jews at all (no group really is) and Pakistanis aren't as disarmed as Palestinians.

We carry on marrying cousins, plus I know there isn't a marked difference but over a longer time than the 70 odd years its taken the European Jews.

And both Palestinians and Pakistanis don't think outside the book, you know which book.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

LOL, strong words.

Indian patriots in rabid support for Indian spy shocker.


His "strong words" are nothing more than a disgraceful outburst against one of the world's most admired men, and coming from an organisation that admits it works to undermine Pakistan only displays your bigotry - which would be fine in it's own place, but on this forum? Like going to your neighbour's house and spitting on the carpet on your way in.

 

[enkidu_]

We carry on marrying cousins, plus I know there isn't a marked difference but over a longer time than the 70 odd years its taken the European Jews.

There has literally been not an ethnic group more endogenous than Jews, and in fact, Cochran et al. in their famous study on Ashkenazi intelligence said that, apart from the traditional explanation ("they were discriminated in medieval Europe due to Christianity and had to take technical jobs, which would help them in the post Christian industrial world), another explanation is that their inbreeding has created psychological-neurological characters which produce "mad men" but also "genii". Ironically just today I was reading about this rabbi, and came across this :

His second wife was his niece, a daughter of Rabbi Yechiel Michel Epstein, the author of the Aruch haShulchan. A son from his first marriage, Chaim Berlin, became the rabbi of Moscow, a daughter married Rabbi Refael Shapiro, and his son from his second marriage was Rabbi Meir Berlin (later Bar-Ilan).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftali_Zvi_Yehuda_Berlin

Look at the father of modern propaganda as well, Bernays, who was a "double nephew" (as he termed it with pride) of Freud, being the son of his sister as well as his cousin, and Einstein too famously dumped his Serbian wife to marry his cousin Martha - and keep in mind we're talking here of "liberal (not particularly religious)" and "enlightened" Jews, not the Hassidic/Haredim communities.

Also, South Indian Hindus are generally termed as more intelligent than ther northern ones, yet :

(...) for some communities in South India, it is common for Hindu cross cousins to marry, with matrilateral cross-cousin (mother's brother's daughter) marriages being especially favored. In the region, "uncle-niece and first-cousin unions are preferential and jointly account for some 30% of marriages".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#India

And both Palestinians and Pakistanis don't think outside the book, you know which book.

Perhaps it's you who has a problem with books (in the plural), otherwise had you gone through few history books (in the plural) you'd know that this particular book is the reason Hindus and Jews for that matter didn't have territorial sovereignty on their own lands for many centuries.

 

[Hitman]

Indian patriots in rabid support for Indian spy shocker.


His "strong words" are nothing more than a disgraceful outburst against one of the world's most admired men, and coming from an organisation that admits it works to undermine Pakistan only displays your bigotry - which would be fine in it's own place, but on this forum? Like going to your neighbour's house and spitting on the carpet on your way in.

Those are not my words. No point in getting your lungi in a twist over me. One of world's most admired men? No comments.

 

[Greenstorm]

He will be your worst nightmare. Just wait and watch.

 

[ILcricket]

]Hindus [/B]aren't as clever as Jews at all (no group really is) and Pakistanis aren't as disarmed as Palestinians.

What makes you equate Indians as Hindus ?

 

[Mamoon]

LOL, strong words.

Not only strong but also true.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not only strong but also true.

I thought you were a big critic of Imran Khan, so have you now changed your mind and agree with the RAW spokesman that he needs to be given a chance and that he is the best bet for peace in 30 years since Musharraf?

 

[Mamoon]

I thought you were a big critic of Imran Khan, so have you now changed your mind and agree with the RAW spokesman that he needs to be given a chance and that he is the best bet for peace in 30 years since Musharraf?

Imran deserved a shot as PM because he deserved a chance to walk the talk, and that is why I ended up voting for him again. However, I agree with this man that he is a military puppet, and he would not have become the PM without their support.

In fact, even the sensible PTI supporters do not deny this fact, but quite a few of them are labouring under the delusion that now that he is in a position of power, he will ensure that his bravado will intimidate the establishment who will refrain from meddling in his affairs. That of course is nonsense. If he defies them, his fate will be no different to Nawaz and Benazir, both of whom suffered for the same reason.

As far as peace with India is concerned, we need to understand that it is against the interests of the military establishment. Even if Imran personally believes in a fruitful relationship with India, he cannot do anything about it because it is not his call. Our foreign policy is dictated by the military, and the only reason why we are fighting in J&K is because it enables them to misuse their power within the country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Imran deserved a shot as PM because he deserved a chance to walk the talk, and that is why I ended up voting for him again. However, I agree with this man that he is a military puppet, and he would not have become the PM without their support.

In fact, even the sensible PTI supporters do not deny this fact, but quite a few of them are labouring under the delusion that now that he is in a position of power, he will ensure that his bravado will intimidate the establishment who will refrain from meddling in his affairs. That of course is nonsense. If he defies them, his fate will be no different to Nawaz and Benazir, both of whom suffered for the same reason.

As far as peace with India is concerned, we need to understand that it is against the interests of the military establishment. Even if Imran personally believes in a fruitful relationship with India, he cannot do anything about it because it is not his call. Our foreign policy is dictated by the military, and the only reason why we are fighting in J&K is because it enables them to misuse their power within the country.

Seems like even the RAW operative is more positive than you on Imran Khan, you have basically just concentrated on the parts highlighted by the rabid Indian patriot in his post.

 

[Hitman]

Seems like even the RAW operative is more positive than you on Imran Khan, you have basically just concentrated on the parts highlighted by the rabid Indian patriot in his post.

Ad hominem is for kids, real debate is for men. How about you try countering his points? Or will you once again retort to ad hominem with me?

 

[Greenstorm]

Ad hominem is for kids, real debate is for men. How about you try countering his points? Or will you once again retort to ad hominem with me?

What is there to debate ? He has copy pasted the Indian narrative here so your excitement is understandable.

 

[PakLFC]

IK has got to do what is right by Pak. We don't need RAW's blessings.

 

[humzy]

Imran deserved a shot as PM because he deserved a chance to walk the talk, and that is why I ended up voting for him again. However, I agree with this man that he is a military puppet, and he would not have become the PM without their support.

In fact, even the sensible PTI supporters do not deny this fact, but quite a few of them are labouring under the delusion that now that he is in a position of power, he will ensure that his bravado will intimidate the establishment who will refrain from meddling in his affairs. That of course is nonsense. If he defies them, his fate will be no different to Nawaz and Benazir, both of whom suffered for the same reason.

As far as peace with India is concerned, we need to understand that it is against the interests of the military establishment. Even if Imran personally believes in a fruitful relationship with India, he cannot do anything about it because it is not his call. Our foreign policy is dictated by the military, and the only reason why we are fighting in J&K is because it enables them to misuse their power within the country.

History says differently in terms of not being able to do anything in defiance of the military after being in power.

Look at Erdogan.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Army's puppet and the butcher of gujrat.

I would definitely like to see peace in my life time.

 

[ahsan17]

Are we still going with army puppet conspiracy theories?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ad hominem is for kids, real debate is for men. How about you try countering his points? Or will you once again retort to ad hominem with me?

I was pointing out that you highlighted the negative comments which detracts his overall message, then commented with a LOL. That distorted the message so not an ad hominem, merely a clarification which needed to be made.

 

[the Great Khan]

Imran is our best bet after (former Pakistan president) general Pervez Musharraf. He may be a puppet in the hands of the Pakistani intelligence agency ISI or the army, but we need to give him time and a chance to prove his intentions,” said Dulat, a former chief of the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), at a session on the wisdom of spies during the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh on Saturday.

He has no obligation to pander to India. He will do what is necessary for the country hand in hand with the peoples armed forces.

 

[ILcricket]

What makes you equate Indians as Hindus ?

is [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION] online but ignoring my question ?

 

[Minnowbasher]

Imran deserved a shot as PM because he deserved a chance to walk the talk, and that is why I ended up voting for him again. However, I agree with this man that he is a military puppet, and he would not have become the PM without their support.

In fact, even the sensible PTI supporters do not deny this fact, but quite a few of them are labouring under the delusion that now that he is in a position of power, he will ensure that his bravado will intimidate the establishment who will refrain from meddling in his affairs. That of course is nonsense. If he defies them, his fate will be no different to Nawaz and Benazir, both of whom suffered for the same reason.

As far as peace with India is concerned, we need to understand that it is against the interests of the military establishment. Even if Imran personally believes in a fruitful relationship with India, he cannot do anything about it because it is not his call. Our foreign policy is dictated by the military, and the only reason why we are fighting in J&K is because it enables them to misuse their power within the country.

Difficult to disagree with you here. This is the bitter truth. Imran may aswell give up on relations with India and instead try and improve the economy.
Also, even if Pakistan wanted peace, India wouldn't. India will always hate Pakistan and the fact is they don't need pakistan so why bother for relations.