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Imran Tahir, what could have been...

CricFan2012

CricFan2012

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Masterclass performance... 7 wickets in a match is no small feat. This man has been on of the best bowlers going around and he's originally from Pakistan.

How did he get ignored?

Will this happen to Sadaf as well?

Thoughts
 
OMG, here we go again-------------------Sadaf, can we leave him alone and accept the fact he is not good enough.
 
CricFan2012 said:
Masterclass performance... 7 wickets in a match is no small feat. This man has been on of the best bowlers going around and he's originally from Pakistan.

How did he get ignored?

Will this happen to Sadaf as well?

Thoughts
Click to expand...

Test Avg of 40 is one of best ?
Vs Aus : 103
vs Eng : 47
vz NZ : 38
vs SL : 49.85
 
[MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION], there you go bud..
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Imran Tahir's 7/45 are the best ODI figures by a S African. He's also the quickest from S Africa to 100 ODI wickets <a href="https://t.co/6WAwjaumwR">pic.twitter.com/6WAwjaumwR</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/743340769499439106">June 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
aliasad1998 said:
Overall. Id sacrifice Yasir the Test bowler to get Tahir in ODIs and T20s
Click to expand...

Tahir in your LOI line up would probably lift your ranking from 9 to 7/6. He's rubbish in Tests.

Yasir is probably your biggest match winner in tests atm. And there is a gap in the quality between Yasir and Tahir (I rate test performances more).
 
street cricketer said:
Tahir in your LOI line up would probably lift your ranking from 9 to 7/6. He's rubbish in Tests.

Yasir is probably your biggest match winner in tests atm. And there is a gap in the quality between Yasir and Tahir (I rate test performances more).
Click to expand...

So do I but at this point Id sacrifice a lot to improve our LOI teams
 
Saw a poster predicting yesterday that there would be a thread about Tahir and what Pakistan have missed.Proved to be true:irfan
 
His Test record is misleading. Can't judge a spinner in Australia and South Africa.

He destroyed Pakistan in a session in Sharjah three years ago, and looked good in India as well.

Like the other Asian spinners, if he plays most of his Tests in UAE/India/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh, his record will look very good.

In Limited Overs, he is easily the best spinner at the moment.
 
Mamoon said:
His Test record is misleading. Can't judge a spinner in Australia and South Africa.

He destroyed Pakistan in a session in Sharjah three years ago, and looked good in India as well.

Like the other Asian spinners, if he plays most of his Tests in UAE/India/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh, his record will look very good.

In Limited Overs, he is easily the best spinner at the moment.
Click to expand...

You are right. I was going to pull the stats before I comment. Yasir hasn't played overseas yet and Tahir has played very less in the subcontinent. Tahir in 5 tests against India and Pakistan has 22 wickets at 19. His only blip is in SL which was in 2014. That SL team was much more stronger with Mahela and Sanga still playing. Imran Tahir did not get a chance to play tests until he was 32-33 years old, so possibly is not even in his prime years as a spinner and is still outbowling most of the spinners in ODI.
 
giri26 said:
You are right. I was going to pull the stats before I comment. Yasir hasn't played overseas yet and Tahir has played very less in the subcontinent. Tahir in 5 tests against India and Pakistan has 22 wickets at 19. His only blip is in SL which was in 2014. That SL team was much more stronger with Mahela and Sanga still playing. Imran Tahir did not get a chance to play tests until he was 32-33 years old, so possibly is not even in his prime years as a spinner and is still outbowling most of the spinners in ODI.
Click to expand...

For spinners, prime is 30+ usually.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
For spinners, prime is 30+ usually.
Click to expand...

I agree but that is only valid for spinners who have been playing International cricket for few years and reach their prime in their 30's. It is unfair to use that yardstick for Tahir as he spent his younger years bowling in the domestic scene and few more years in SA domestic before finally getting his chance at the age of 32-33. In spite of being experienced in domestic cricket, it is hard for any spinner to come to international cricket and start dominating especially when you are playing on unresponsive wickets against international players. I am sure if Tahir had debuted in his late or mid 20's, he would have been a very good bowler now in international cricket. He was too old to play and mature at this level which all spinners in the world need.
 
Easily the best spinner in LOI. His test figures would have been much better had he played more games in Asia.
 
giri26 said:
I agree but that is only valid for spinners who have been playing International cricket for few years and reach their prime in their 30's. It is unfair to use that yardstick for Tahir as he spent his younger years bowling in the domestic scene and few more years in SA domestic before finally getting his chance at the age of 32-33. In spite of being experienced in domestic cricket, it is hard for any spinner to come to international cricket and start dominating especially when you are playing on unresponsive wickets against international players. I am sure if Tahir had debuted in his late or mid 20's, he would have been a very good bowler now in international cricket. He was too old to play and mature at this level which all spinners in the world need.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I guess.
 
Tahir bhai is the only one holding the crumbling Saffer side together.. otherwise they are heading towards minnow territory :afridi
 
No doubt Tahir would have much better records if he was playing in Asia but the issue with him is that he will have his on-off days.

Not a consistent spinner in tests in terms of line and length and maintaining pressure.

Even in the India series, he would run through the lineup at times and in other times, leak runs and give away all the momentum.

His mindset is more LOI centric rather than delivering consistently good spells and reaping benefits which is what is needed in tests.

But who knows he may develop in tests to.
 
Last edited:
The_Odd_One said:
Easily the best spinner in LOI. His test figures would have been much better had he played more games in Asia.
Click to expand...

To be honest he hasn't done too well against 2 of the strongest line ups in ODI cricket:
avg Vs India: 38
Aus: 38

Also had he played more in Asia, against India I am afraid his avg would have gone up - neutralizing some of the benefit. Has performed poorly against Bangladesh also. So not sure there.

On a side note look at the teams he has played for.

Tahir.JPG
 
There is no doubt that he should have been given a few series. A blunder from the selectors. But that's Pakistan and blunders like these will keep happening ... the worst part is that no one will care.
 
Statsman said:
To be honest he hasn't done too well against 2 of the strongest line ups in ODI cricket:
avg Vs India: 38
Aus: 38

Had he played more in Asia, against India I am afraid his avg would have gone up - neutralizing some of the benefit. Has performed poorly against Bangladesh also. So not sure there.

On a side note look at the teams he has played for.

View attachment 67617
Click to expand...

What's up with you and overall stats? ;-)

Tahir played against India in Johannesburg which is a known graveyard for spinners.

He got 2 tailender wickets atleast. Ashwin got none.

Against India, he averaged around 21 in the India series (no that number is not as good as it sounds but its definitely a goodish performance overall).

Against Aus....he played in 1 Aussie patta and was carted around.

He has developed since then.

So not much sample set to judge based on THIS criteria.
 
As a test bowler, Tahir has quite a way to go.

If you give him a turner, he will run through a lineup at times but he doesn't know how to bowl spells and work batsmen out.

Atleast I haven't seen much of that.

Its all leggie...leggie...googly...leggie...leggie....googly stuff.
 
Statsman said:
To be honest he hasn't done too well against 2 of the strongest line ups in ODI cricket:
avg Vs India: 38
Aus: 38

Also had he played more in Asia, against India I am afraid his avg would have gone up - neutralizing some of the benefit. Has performed poorly against Bangladesh also. So not sure there.

On a side note look at the teams he has played for.

View attachment 67617
Click to expand...

Oh I am sorry.

You meant ODIs...

My apologies.
 
Statsman said:
To be honest he hasn't done too well against 2 of the strongest line ups in ODI cricket:
avg Vs India: 38
Aus: 38

Also had he played more in Asia, against India I am afraid his avg would have gone up - neutralizing some of the benefit. Has performed poorly against Bangladesh also. So not sure there.

On a side note look at the teams he has played for.

View attachment 67617
Click to expand...

Warne was also poor against India but he was still a great ODI bowler. India and Australia are not even the best spin playing teams of his time, so those high averages are not important.
 
Pure stupidity really that he was overlooked. He wasn't even given a chance at international level.

We were idiots with persisting with Kaneria for so long. He wasn't very good even in tests, extremely overrated. We just presumed the rest wouldn't do better, but this has been proved wrong with Ajmal and now Yasir.

In ODIs we also tended to use Afridi or Malik as our main spinner. As Kaneria wasn't good enough with the bat (nor ball really in ODIs), we just presumed we should rather bolster our batting.

Zulquifar Babar also probably missed out being played in his prime too, due to this mes.
 
He has been working really hard. That is paying off.

But WI has been always weak against spin.
 
Danish Kaneria was better than him and now Yasir Shah is better than him in tests. Similarly, Ajmal and Hafeez were better than him in LOIs before their ban. There was no place for him in Pakistan cricket.

It's good that SA have got someone who is better than their spinners but Pakistan hasn't lost anything.
 
People would exchange Yasir Shah, the best test spinner since Warne and Murali, for a 37 years old Tahir who can't bowl an over without bowling at least 2 rubbish balls :)))
 
One of the best ODI specialists going around; not unlike Narine one might add, minus
the dubious action. Yet another reminder that the cricket is now not one game, but
three. You want to a good ODI team, pick good ODI players. South African selectors have
understood what some PP fans still have trouble grasping.
 
ads101 said:
Pure stupidity really that he was overlooked. He wasn't even given a chance at international level.

We were idiots with persisting with Kaneria for so long. He wasn't very good even in tests, extremely overrated. We just presumed the rest wouldn't do better, but this has been proved wrong with Ajmal and now Yasir.

In ODIs we also tended to use Afridi or Malik as our main spinner. As Kaneria wasn't good enough with the bat (nor ball really in ODIs), we just presumed we should rather bolster our batting.

Zulquifar Babar also probably missed out being played in his prime too, due to this mes.
Click to expand...

The PCB is famously complacent. Not taking better care of Zahid is the other, classic example.
 
endymion248 said:
Danish Kaneria was better than him and now Yasir Shah is better than him in tests. Similarly, Ajmal and Hafeez were better than him in LOIs before their ban. There was no place for him in Pakistan cricket.

It's good that SA have got someone who is better than their spinners but Pakistan hasn't lost anything.
Click to expand...

Pakistan at this moment has an ODI spinner who is better than Tahir?
When did Hafeez take 7 wickets in an ODI? Shall we compare averages, SR?
 
New Yorker said:
Pakistan at this moment has an ODI spinner who is better than Tahir?
When did Hafeez take 7 wickets in an ODI? Shall we compare averages, SR?
Click to expand...

Pakistan doesn't play a dedicated spinner in ODIs at the moment. They don't have anyone at the level of Tahir but that is only due to Hafeez/Ajmal ban. Since Tahir is 37+, it would have been useless to invest in him at this point.

Hafeez was an economical bowler to compliment Ajmal and did his job very well with a low ER.
 
Pakistan's loss has definitely been South Africa's gain.

He's defied his critics and has been superb for South Africa.

I guess if he had stayed in Pakistan he may have played a few domestic matches and maybe the occasional international match, but certainly not on the scale he has for South Africa.
 
Tahir and Hafeez cannot be compared. Both have/had different roles and excelled in it, but of course Hafeez was doing it illegally.

Tahir and Ajmal can be compared, and Tahir is better in ODIs than Ajmal ever has been. Even when he was hurling them at over 50 degrees.
 
Arguably the best LOI bowler in the world today, I'd put him ahead of Starc. Clearly better than Ashwin.

Just imagine if we had Tahir and Ajmal bowling in tandem for Pakistan, during the time when we had an in-form Junaid, a healthy Irfan and Hafeez the all-rounder.

Tabraiz Shamsi is another one who will do well in the years to come.
 
endymion248 said:
Pakistan doesn't play a dedicated spinner in ODIs at the moment. They don't have anyone at the level of Tahir but that is only due to Hafeez/Ajmal ban. Since Tahir is 37+, it would have been useless to invest in him at this point.

Hafeez was an economical bowler to compliment Ajmal and did his job very well with a low ER.
Click to expand...

We could have easily kicked Afridi out and played Tahir for one of the pacers instead. Gotten a proper leggie and a proper batsman in the team, instead of 'Fridi.
 
endymion248 said:
Pakistan doesn't play a dedicated spinner in ODIs at the moment. They don't have anyone at the level of Tahir but that is only due to Hafeez/Ajmal ban. Since Tahir is 37+, it would have been useless to invest in him at this point.

Hafeez was an economical bowler to compliment Ajmal and did his job very well with a low ER.
Click to expand...

Useless to invest? You mean give him a green shirt and let him take heaps of wickets? What does it cost you?
Just give up will you. It is a loss for Pakistan, plain and simple.
 
New Yorker said:
Useless to invest? You mean give him a green shirt and let him take heaps of wickets? What does it cost you?
Just give up will you. It is a loss for Pakistan, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

What heaps of wickets? He'll maybe take another 50 ODI wickets at most in his career and he is useless in tests. Why would Pakistan want him over Yasir Shah?
 
endymion248 said:
What heaps of wickets? He'll maybe take another 50 ODI wickets at most in his career and he is useless in tests. Why would Pakistan want him over Yasir Shah?
Click to expand...

Pakistan lost Ajmal in 2015. Tahir could have been an able replacement in LOIs. Why would you not want the best LOI bowler in the world in your team?
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
There is no doubt that he should have been given a few series. A blunder from the selectors. But that's Pakistan and blunders like these will keep happening ... the worst part is that no one will care.
Click to expand...

Some in fact will argue to the bitter end that Pakistani selectors are infallible.
 
Bilal7 said:
Arguably the best LOI bowler in the world today, I'd put him ahead of Starc. Clearly better than Ashwin.

Just imagine if we had Tahir and Ajmal bowling in tandem for Pakistan, during the time when we had an in-form Junaid, a healthy Irfan and Hafeez the all-rounder.

Tabraiz Shamsi is another one who will do well in the years to come.
Click to expand...

That just wouldn't have been the strategy.

Rehman was very good for some time but how often did you see him bowl with Ajmal in ODIs?

Both of them got their chances very late.
 
Saj said:
Pakistan's loss has definitely been South Africa's gain.

He's defied his critics and has been superb for South Africa.

I guess if he had stayed in Pakistan he may have played a few domestic matches and maybe the occasional international match, but certainly not on the scale he has for South Africa.
Click to expand...

Key is SAF persisted with him even when he looked very average earlier on pre 2012 and before he pulled the rug from under our feet in 2013.
 
One of the best bowlers in LOI formats ATM. A shame he hasn't kicked on in tests. I have heard South Africa made him work on his fitness before selecting him. So that shows he wasn't in the best shape so if he played for Pakistan how long would he have lasted in our laid back attitude towards fitness? Would have been worth a run though. South Africa's gain anyway.
 
aliasad1998 said:
Id trade him for Yasir in a second
Click to expand...

Yasir is way better than Tahir, better fielder, better batsman and better bowler. I would never trade Yasir with anyone. Yasir has not played many ODIs judge him after he played 40 odd LOI.
 
Acricketfan said:
His post was



How did Tahir come into picture?
Click to expand...

It would be good if you went back and actually read the post he was quoting. When he says 'high averages' he's talking about the post he quoted which mentioned that Tahir averages 38 v India and Australia.

Can't believe I'm having to sit here and give reading comprehension lessons.
 
Mamoon said:
His ranking means nothing because he was a chucker.

Tahir and Ajmal are comparable because both are attacking, specialist spinners. It is like comparing Warne and Muralitharan.

Tahir is better than Ajmal in ODIs, even though Ajmal had the advantage of throwing the ball.
Click to expand...

You won't stop with the "chucker" rubbish for either Murali or Ajmal :))
 
Adijazz1706 said:
You won't stop with the "chucker" rubbish for either Murali or Ajmal :))
Click to expand...

Ajmal is a proven chucker, while Muralitharan got away with it due to certain circumstances.

Nonetheless, both are chuckers.
 
Rudi hater said:
Yasir is way better than Tahir, better fielder, better batsman and better bowler. I would never trade Yasir with anyone. Yasir has not played many ODIs judge him after he played 40 odd LOI.
Click to expand...

This is such a contrived debate. Why on earth would one have to choose between them? If Tahir were still playing for Pakistan one could play him in ODIs and Yasir in Tests. Because Yasir is not a better *ODI* bowler. If you are going to get better in LOIs fans as much as selectors have to get it into their heads that cricket is now three DIFFERENT games.
 
Easily one of the best loi spinner of all time, in high scoring era his economy is just marvellous and is a one hell of wicket taker.
 
A massive loss. I can't believe we had this guy around and didn't pick him, he has such obvious talent. We didn't even have a star spinner at the time, Kaneria, Afridi, Malik were all average spinners, the latter two only holding a spot down with their batting (and Malik became a batsman).
 
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