India’s War on Urdu

shaaik

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Urdu is a long-time part of Indian culture, not an alien presence to be purged.

As a 9-year-old boy, one evening I went to play in a huge park, Gandhi Maidan, in my hometown of Patna, in India. Among the bustling crowds of mostly young men and children, I found myself alone and decided to wait for my friends for a while on an rusty iron bench. A man in his 30s approached and sat beside me, initiating a conversation and introducing himself as an off-duty member of the Home Guard. Within minutes, he told me that I was not speaking like other people and my pronunciation was like Muhammadens. I was baffled by his remark.

I was unsure how to react to his remark, but he did not seem to be complaining or hostile: on the contrary, he was in awe of discovering another set of sounds seemingly alien to him. Flattered, but also with a sense of discomfort, I noticed that my speech was unnecessarily marking my religion and made me alien in my birthplace. What had gone wrong?

Later, in the year 2001, I joined a French research project on the education system in the Urdu schools of East Delhi. When I met some principals and teachers of these schools, all complained about the lack of funding provided to ensure a proper education. Teachers were not getting their salaries on time, pupils were left unattended in some classes, and some schools did not even have desks or benches, with the children made to sit on a dirty carpet. All blamed the shortages on the negligent way the national central government was treating these Urdu schools. Once again, I got the feeling that Urdu was being treated as alien to Delhi, just as in Patna, although in both places, it has the status of the second official language.

Urdu, which evolved from the Khari Boli language, is a variety of Sanskrit. During medieval times, Khari Boli came into contact with the Muslim invaders in the northwest part of India. Urdu, hitherto known as Hindi, but also by the names of Dehlavi, Hindavai, Rekhta, Gujri, Dakhani, and Hindoostani, was the language of the masses in the area of Delhi and its surroundings.

Some pieces of literature in Khari Boli, with Perso-Arabic-laden script, are found from as early as the 13th century in the texts of the great Delhi Sufi poet and musician, Amir Khusro. However, it was from the 18th century, that, according to Tariq Rahman, Khari Boli was Islamicized under the aegis of the Muslim rulers. All lexicons derived from Sanskrit and local dialects were purged. It was not known as Urdu in those times, but as Hindustani.

Since then, Urdu has been erroneously and relentlessly associated with the Muslim community.

Actually, Urdu’s literary artefacts represent a plethora of cultures, but most prominently, it has been a strong voice of indigenous culture, particularly from the 20th century onwards. Intizar Hussain, Qurraitulain Hyder, Ismat Chughtai, Saadat Hasan Manto, Rajinder Singh Bedi, Premchand, Farhatullah Baig, and Krishan Chandar were all Urdu writers, and many others penned enriching local narratives with the refined aesthetic beauty of Urdu’s Persian and Arabic linguistic and cultural heritage.

As far as Urdu is concerned, in terms of its perception by others, its nativeness is not put into question — its lineage to Sanskrit is often proudly recalled. Instead, it is the alteration of the language, drawing heavily on the dominant Islamic culture of the times, that is problematic for some. The outer surface was embellished with Perso-Arabic script, lexical borrowings mainly from Persian and Arabic, and, corollary to these borrowings, other sounds that have been added to its linguistic system. It was as if Urdu bore the taint of Islam, a bête noire in India’s post-1947 sectarian politics.

The term gharwaapsi (returning back home) was coined by Hindu supremacist groups, such as Hindu Jagran Morcha. Their theory was that every non-Hindu entity in India has its origins in the ethos of Hinduism but has been alienated or converted by force into other faiths. The attempt should be made, therefore, to bring them back to their original, fundamental state: in other words, “returning back home.” Quite a few headlines were abuzz with this theme in the year 2016, when rituals were performed to reconvert some Muslim families to Hinduism.

Oddly, it seems that the gharwaapsi of Urdu had already begun in the early 19th century. Professor Tariq Rahman refers to the “Hinduization of Khari Boli (1803-1949),” undertaken in part to consolidate Hindu identity. One example Rahman cited was Prem Sagar (1803) by Lallu Lal, in which Arabic and Persian words were purged. Known as “Father of Modern Hindi,” Lallu Lal set the tone for Sanskritized Hindi. Following him, several works by Ramchandra Shukla emphasized the importance of Sanskrit Hindi, associating it with the identity of Hindus.

The Mutiny of 1857 (the first War of Independence), in which Muslims participated in huge numbers, angered India’s British colonial overlords. Partly as a result, they took the side of the Hindi movement over Urdu in promoting the Devanagari script. Ali Ahmad, author of Twilight in Delhi, mentions that many Urdu writers bore the brunt of the failed 1857 revolt. They were sentenced to the Andaman Islands, where most died from harsh living conditions and their treatment.

Sociolinguist Rizwan Ahmad recalls two memoranda by Hindu nationalists in the years 1868 and 1897 against Urdu as the language of the court. One missive written by a team of Hindu nationalists from Bhartendu Harishchandra and sent to Madan Mohan Malviya was a scathing attack on the supposed uselessness and alienness of Urdu in British India. Their purpose was to rejuvenate the Hindu identity as part of the Hindu Renaissance movement launched by the reformer Raja Ram Mohan Roy (1772-1833).

The future of Urdu seemed bleak. It became a victim of linguistic segregation under the campaign of the Hindi nationalist movement. Christopher R. King, author of One Language, Two Scripts, blamed the Hindi movement for creating communal consciousness in pre-independence India, as Sunil Shrivastava reports in his review of the book. King opines that the Hindi movement in the 19th century characterized languages by their script and vocabulary and not by their linguistic configuration.

Urdu, in return, became radicalized by its own proponents. Its genre shrank to moral literature based on Islam. Muslims were, sadly, fast becoming the sole owners of the language.

Kuldeep Kumar reports that, when Urdu was recognized as the second official language of Uttar Pradesh in 1989, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, who would later serve as prime minister of India, protested it as an act of “Muslim appeasement.” Just 22 years previously, in 1967, riots had erupted in Bihar, with a Muslim minority population of 17 percent, when it was proposed that Urdu should be the second official language. The Raghubar Dayal Commission reported 184 deaths in Ranchi, of which 164 were Muslims and 19 were Hindus. Similarly, in 1994, riots erupted in Bangalore, resulting in 23 deaths, after a news bulletin was aired in Urdu. The literary council of the official Kannada language of the state and more than other 50 language organizations promoting Kannada language threatened state-wide protests against the Urdu bulletin. Even last year, in 2018, two deaths resulted in West Bengal from protests against newly appointed Urdu teachers.

More recently, when the Bhartiya Janta Party (BJP) government came to power in Rajasthan in 2013, it merged Urdu-medium schools to the benefit of Hindi-medium schools, developments that were reported by Shruti Jain. The recruitment of Urdu teachers was subsequently postponed and exam papers were no longer available in Urdu for public primary schools in Rajasthan. In 2016, the same Rajasthan government removed Urdu author Ismat Chughtai from the Class VIII Hindi textbook.

In 2017, two Muslim members of the Uttar Pradesh legislative assembly were denied permission to take the oath in Urdu, the second official language of the state. In December of the same year, a Bahujan Samaj Party member was charged for offending religious sentiments when he took his oath in Urdu.

Linguistic landscape and city names in Urdu or connected with Islamic heritage have also come under attack from Hindi chauvinist politicians since 2014. The name of the famous emblematic railway station, Mughal Sarai, was metamorphosed into Deen Dyal Upadhya following a chilling fervor by nationalist extremists, just to name one major example. Other examples include Mustafabad being renamed Saraswati Nagar in 2016 and Allahabad being renamed Prayagraj in 2018 by BJP-led governments. The proposal for changing the name of Ahmedabad, a UNESCO World Heritage City, into Karnavati has been a dream of the same crowd since 1990.

While Prime Minister Narendra Modi is careful to use Urdu in his campaigns and even to recite Urdu poetry, many of his more intense followers clearly do not share in such practices or appreciation of Urdu.

The argument of Hindi chauvinists is that Urdu has greatly deviated from its original Sanskrit roots, and it needs to be brought back to its original forms, echoing the gharwaapsi of the converted Muslims. Such a claim is absurd, for though the languages of Hindi and Urdu have a shared history going back some seven centuries, how can one ignore the evolution (lexical, syntactic, and scriptural) over these years, resulting in two extensively divergent written codes?

Despite these many assaults, the Persian-Arabic script of Urdu maintains the ecological balance of the language, keeping intact its rich historic heritage. Its lexical codes represent the hybrid, cosmopolitan tones of many cultures, cultures that define India even today. The question boils down to the identity of Urdu, which is scrutinized under the radar of Hindi chauvinists.

The strength of Urdu lies in its diversity and broad appeal. It has united people in the past and it still has the potential to reunite and shrink the distances between different communities in today’s turbulent times. It is a pity that powerful Hindu nationalists take such an exclusivist and hostile attitude toward Urdu, as such an attitude is hardly representative of India’s deeper identity and long coexistence of multiple regions, peoples, faiths, and languages. To purge Urdu is to purge a part of India, and one can only hope that the contributions of Urdu to Indian history and culture today as well as in the past will be celebrated, not suppressed to the satisfy whims of the narrow-minded and intolerant.

Urdu’s roots in India are so deep that the only idea truly alien to India is that Urdu is alien.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/indias-war-on-urdu/
 
Perhaps Pakistan adopting it as its national language might have something to do with it.


We might speak Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashto, Baluchi, Seraiki, Kashmiri or even English(burger crowd) in our homes but overwhelming majority of Pakistanis can converse in Urdu and this is what unites us as a nation.


However, more and more I'm seeing that Urdu is even used in homes and provincial languages are going in the background. I'm from Urdu speaking background so language at home was always Urdu.
 
Urdu is alive and kicking in Bollywood songs though Punjabi seems to be in trend now.

I personally do not consider Urdu as a separate language. It is an Indian language with heavy Arabic/Persian tadka. Same with Hindi.
 
Urdu is alive and kicking in Bollywood songs though Punjabi seems to be in trend now.

I personally do not consider Urdu as a separate language. It is an Indian language with heavy Arabic/Persian tadka. Same with Hindi.

You say that but when we type a little in salees Urdu you say "samaz nahi ayi ki kya bola tu"
 
You say that but when we type a little in salees Urdu you say "samaz nahi ayi ki kya bola tu"

That sounds more like Hyderabadi Urdu.

Most Indians understand Urdu until some heavy Arabic words are used. To me, no matter how much Hindutva fools try to banish Urdu, it will continue to live in India as long as Bollywood exists.
 
Urdu and Hindi both descended from Hindustani.

Urdu is a hybrid language. It is an Indo-European language, along with Hindi, Bengali, Gujarati, English, German etc. and its grammar is Indo-European.

However, unlike other Indo-European languages its script is Semitic and there is a heavy presence of Semitic loan words.
 
Urdu is alive and kicking in Bollywood songs though Punjabi seems to be in trend now.

I personally do not consider Urdu as a separate language. It is an Indian language with heavy Arabic/Persian tadka. Same with Hindi.

As someone who watched a lot of older Bollywood movies growing up, I have to say the standard of Urdu (or even Hindi for that matter) in Bollywood has really deteriorated. Watch a Bollywood movie from the 60’s, 70’s or 80’s and the language (whether you call it Hindi or Urdu is irrelevant) is rather similar to what you would have heard in a Pakistani film or drama of the era. In fact the lyrics of most older Bollywood songs are classical Urdu. What is spoken in Bollywood today is neither Urdu nor Hindi but a weird mixture of English, Urdu, Hindi and slang words. Part of it may be because the newer actors and writers are from more affluent westernized backgrounds and are more comfortable with English than their own language.

I may be wrong on this but from an outsiders perspective I think this may also reflect increasing westernization that has come with globalization and economic progress. All of the Khan’s (despite the stereotype of Urdu being associated with Muslims) cant speak good Urdu or Hindi to save their lives without peppering it with English and weird slang words. Listen to older Bollywood actors from the 70’s and they speak much more refined Urdu (/Hindi). Amitabh Bachchan is probably one of the only people in Bollywood right now who can complete a sentence without using an English word.
 
will some indian posters tell me whats written in this image ? if they think Urdu and Hindi are same.

btw, its not salees Urdu.

Jaga-Ji-Lagane-Ki-Duniya-Na.jpg
 
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will some indian posters tell me whats written in this image ? if they think Urdu and Hindi are same.

btw, its not salees Urdu.

only ignorants think that both are same. Hindi is a scientific and superior language, while Urdu is mostly a street language which got some respect after borrowing superior Persian words.
 
This is to be expected with Hindutva on the rise. When names of city's are being changed to Hindunise India such things will naturally follow. Urdu is a far superior language to Hindi for goodness sake! It is a historical, romantic and poetic language spoken by royalty. It sound aristocratic even if a servant is speaking it where as Hindi with it's influence of Sanskrit lacks this appeal.
 
will some indian posters tell me whats written in this image ? if they think Urdu and Hindi are same.

btw, its not salees Urdu.

Jaga-Ji-Lagane-Ki-Duniya-Na.jpg

Very few can read Urdu. Most cannot differentiate between Persian/Urdu/Arabic scripts. All of them look the same for us.

Even many of my Muslim friends cannot read Urdu. They can speak though.
 
Urdu is alive and kicking in Bollywood songs though Punjabi seems to be in trend now.

I personally do not consider Urdu as a separate language. It is an Indian language with heavy Arabic/Persian tadka. Same with Hindi.

Well you are Tamil/South Indian so you won't understand the nuance. It's like most of Pakistanis can't tell the difference between the little Dravidian dialects y'all speak.
 
Well you are Tamil/South Indian so you won't understand the nuance. It's like most of Pakistanis can't tell the difference between the little Dravidian dialects y'all speak.

Tamil/Telugu/Kannada/Malayalam are not dialects. They are proper separate languages with different scripts. They may have 5-10% similarity. I am a Telugu and I can neither understand other Dravidian Languages nor read their scripts. I can read a bit of Kannada as the script is somewhat similar.

I grew up learning both Hindi and Listening to Urdu. The Urdu that people in Hyderabad speak is a bit different. It does not have those heavy Arabic words that Pak people use.
 
Tamil/Telugu/Kannada/Malayalam are not dialects. They are proper separate languages with different scripts. They may have 5-10% similarity. I am a Telugu and I can neither understand other Dravidian Languages nor read their scripts. I can read a bit of Kannada as the script is somewhat similar.

I grew up learning both Hindi and Listening to Urdu. The Urdu that people in Hyderabad speak is a bit different. It does not have those heavy Arabic words that Pak people use.

It honestly looks all the same to me. I've heard they're all part of the Dravidian ethnicity and most of these little tribes are essentially the same, part of the same kingdoms and nation for thousands of years. I'm pretty sure you also eat dosas like the other dravidian tribes.
 
As someone who watched a lot of older Bollywood movies growing up, I have to say the standard of Urdu (or even Hindi for that matter) in Bollywood has really deteriorated. Watch a Bollywood movie from the 60’s, 70’s or 80’s and the language (whether you call it Hindi or Urdu is irrelevant) is rather similar to what you would have heard in a Pakistani film or drama of the era. In fact the lyrics of most older Bollywood songs are classical Urdu. What is spoken in Bollywood today is neither Urdu nor Hindi but a weird mixture of English, Urdu, Hindi and slang words. Part of it may be because the newer actors and writers are from more affluent westernized backgrounds and are more comfortable with English than their own language.

I may be wrong on this but from an outsiders perspective I think this may also reflect increasing westernization that has come with globalization and economic progress. All of the Khan’s (despite the stereotype of Urdu being associated with Muslims) cant speak good Urdu or Hindi to save their lives without peppering it with English and weird slang words. Listen to older Bollywood actors from the 70’s and they speak much more refined Urdu (/Hindi). Amitabh Bachchan is probably one of the only people in Bollywood right now who can complete a sentence without using an English word.

you have no idea. If not for bollywood, urdu would remain a third grade language. It was bollywood which found the only rhyming word for jaadu (qaabu) and has given many complicated phrases with layers of meaning like:
dil mein mere hai dard-e-disco, main ghooma london, paris, san francisco.
muqabla, subhanallah, laila oh ho laila.
mohabbat hai mirchi sanam. ulti seedhi mohabbat ki galiyan sanam.
Ishq chandi hai, ishq sona hai. Hai jawani to ishq hona hai.

Must be frustrating for pakistanis, that their national language owes its status to bollywood, without which it would remain a paindoo language.
 
you have no idea. If not for bollywood, urdu would remain a third grade language. It was bollywood which found the only rhyming word for jaadu (qaabu) and has given many complicated phrases with layers of meaning like:
dil mein mere hai dard-e-disco, main ghooma london, paris, san francisco.
muqabla, subhanallah, laila oh ho laila.
mohabbat hai mirchi sanam. ulti seedhi mohabbat ki galiyan sanam.
Ishq chandi hai, ishq sona hai. Hai jawani to ishq hona hai.

Must be frustrating for pakistanis, that their national language owes its status to bollywood, without which it would remain a paindoo language.

Your posts are gem. Itni creativity laate kahan se hai aap janaab-e-aali?
 
No thank you.

Think logically.

A Punjabi kid has to learn Punjabi because native.
He/she has to learn Urdu because it's national language.
Has to learn English as to improve academic and career prospects.

Why waste so much precious time rather learn Science Math Coding & other important skill.

Just an opinion.
 
Think logically.

A Punjabi kid has to learn Punjabi because native.
He/she has to learn Urdu because it's national language.
Has to learn English as to improve academic and career prospects.

Why waste so much precious time rather learn Science Math Coding & other important skill.

Just an opinion.

There is more to Pakistan than just Punjab you know that right?


Heck more than 60% of Pakistan does not even speak Punjabi and this includes people living in Punjab itself (South Punjab and Potohar region).
 
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you have no idea. If not for bollywood, urdu would remain a third grade language. It was bollywood which found the only rhyming word for jaadu (qaabu) and has given many complicated phrases with layers of meaning like:
dil mein mere hai dard-e-disco, main ghooma london, paris, san francisco.
muqabla, subhanallah, laila oh ho laila.
mohabbat hai mirchi sanam. ulti seedhi mohabbat ki galiyan sanam.
Ishq chandi hai, ishq sona hai. Hai jawani to ishq hona hai.

Must be frustrating for pakistanis, that their national language owes its status to bollywood, without which it would remain a paindoo language.

You missed 'mein to bhelpuri kha raha tha, teri nani mari to mein kya karoon' and 'oonchi hai building liften bhi band hen'.

Bollywood's contribution to Urdu is second only to Iqbal and Ghalib and every Pakistani resents the fact that our government awarded nishan-e-imtiaz to Dilip Kumar instead of Anu Malik or Govinda.
 
Think logically.

A Punjabi kid has to learn Punjabi because native.
He/she has to learn Urdu because it's national language.
Has to learn English as to improve academic and career prospects.

Why waste so much precious time rather learn Science Math Coding & other important skill.

Just an opinion.

Pakistan has many other ethnic groups. That's like making Tamil the national language of India just cause they're the largest ethnicity.
 
There is more to Pakistan than just Punjab you know that right?


Heck more than 60% of Pakistan does not even speak Punjabi and this includes people living in Punjab itself (South Punjab and Potohar region).

Isn't Punjabi spoken by 60% of your people? I thought Pak Punjab makes 60% of your population.
 
but Hindis aren't an ethnicity right? Indians are mostly either bengali or some south indian tribe

There are more Telugu and Kannada people than Tamils.

Also Marathis I think are the largest ethnic people. May be Biharis and UP'ites (Not sure if they can be considered as similar Ethnic people).
 
Isn't Punjabi spoken by 60% of your people? I thought Pak Punjab makes 60% of your population.

As per latest census Punjab was slightly less then 50% of the population but within Punjab itself there are vast number of people who do not speak Punjabi such as Seraiki in the south, Potohari in the north etc. Punjabi is predominantly spoken in Central Punjab.
 
As per latest census Punjab was slightly less then 50% of the population but within Punjab itself there are vast number of people who do not speak Punjabi such as Seraiki in the south, Potohari in the north etc. Punjabi is predominantly spoken in Central Punjab.

So entire Pak Punjab population is 9 Crores and Punjab is only spoken by about 5 crores? India has 3 crore Punjabi speakers. Not significant difference.
 
So entire Pak Punjab population is 9 Crores and Punjab is only spoken by about 5 crores? India has 3 crore Punjabi speakers. Not significant difference.

20 million isn't a signifcant difference? I'd class Potohari as a Punjabi dialect so that would bump the numbers up, it's even officially considered a Punjabi dialect.
 
20 million isn't a signifcant difference? I'd class Potohari as a Punjabi dialect so that would bump the numbers up, it's even officially considered a Punjabi dialect.

I used to think Pak Punjabi speakers are close to 11 crores and India is only 3 crores. 2 Crore difference is a lot less. India can cover that gap in no time :))
 
it will be indias loss, its an indian language, its hindustani or hindavi, we call hindustani in arabic script urdu but it is not a proper name so much as writing it in latin script would make it any other language, urdu just means army.

i dont think its so much being pakistan's lingua franca, as being entwined to the islamic history on northern india, something modern right wingers are so hell bent on destroying, that may be the motivation for this.
 
Think logically.

A Punjabi kid has to learn Punjabi because native.
He/she has to learn Urdu because it's national language.
Has to learn English as to improve academic and career prospects.

Why waste so much precious time rather learn Science Math Coding & other important skill.

Just an opinion.

its not that difficult, u dont learn punjabi formally, u learn it by interaction, and urdu and english is more formally taught.

also i dont think its a wasted skill, english is a brilliant technical and comedic (i mean this in the best possible way) language, but it has nothing on urdu for romantic poetry imo.

as i grew older i learnt to appreciate all three languages, and im glad i was exposed to them to some extent. i dont think ull ever find someone who is multilingual and regrets it.

urdu is a great language, and i say that as a (technically) punjabi pakistani.
 
I used to think Pak Punjabi speakers are close to 11 crores and India is only 3 crores. 2 Crore difference is a lot less. India can cover that gap in no time :))

As if Pakistan doesn't have a higher birth rate and Indian punjab has higher emigration rate :)) 20 million is a big difference. Also it's only only like 50-60 million if you exclude Potoharis and that's very controversial cause many Potoharis do consider themselves Punjabis. Sohail Tanvir, Muhammad Amir and Shoaib Akhtar are from Potohar and I'm pretty sure you consider them Punjabi,
 
This is to be expected with Hindutva on the rise. When names of city's are being changed to Hindunise India such things will naturally follow. Urdu is a far superior language to Hindi for goodness sake! It is a historical, romantic and poetic language spoken by royalty. It sound aristocratic even if a servant is speaking it where as Hindi with it's influence of Sanskrit lacks this appeal.

It's not superior and it's subjective.

Royalty spoke Persian, Hindustani was primarily spoken by the masses.
 
Think logically.

A Punjabi kid has to learn Punjabi because native.
He/she has to learn Urdu because it's national language.
Has to learn English as to improve academic and career prospects.

Why waste so much precious time rather learn Science Math Coding & other important skill.

Just an opinion.

And a pashtun kid? A balochi kid?

English is also a much important language .
 
I’m Punjabi but i can’t understand why people would want Punjabi as an official language. There has to be a language that unites all Pakistanis and what better language than Urdu?

Even India has Hindi as an official language, i don’t see their Punjabis, Gujaratis or Bengalis making a huge deal out of it.
 
It's not superior and it's subjective.

Royalty spoke Persian, Hindustani was primarily spoken by the masses.

It is superior to me. Hindustani is more Urdu then Hindi or Sanskrit.
 
Lol on the fool calling urdu Paindu
Urdu is called nawabs language for a reason
if anything is paindu it's hindi
ball fekho 😂 lmao wth is this..
and bollywood owes us nothing urdu was and will always be beautiful
and shame on the poster calling that punjabi should have been national language not only it is the painduest language in the world made up mostly of urdu slangs and it barely has a script.
 
Hindi in its purest form is very soothing on the ears. People think that Hindi spoken in Mumbai is the one that is spoken all over India (Thanks to Bollywood).

Urdu in its purest form has way too many Arabic/Persian words. Bollywood does keep Urdu words alive in the subcontinent.
 
Can't believe people are calling Urdu a paindu language :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



Urdu is perhaps the most classy language of all the languages in the subcontinent.
 
Hindi in its purest form is very soothing on the ears. People think that Hindi spoken in Mumbai is the one that is spoken all over India (Thanks to Bollywood).

Urdu in its purest form has way too many Arabic/Persian words. Bollywood does keep Urdu words alive in the subcontinent.

You have a very nascent understanding and command over Urdu yet you are strutting around on this thread acting like a linguistic expert.
 
You have a very nascent understanding and command over Urdu yet you are strutting around on this thread acting like a linguistic expert.

I am not an expert on languages. But when I listen to Pakistani News Channels and discussions, I can see how much Arabic you guys use.
At least Sanskrit is our language. Arabic is an invaders language.
 
Can't believe people are calling Urdu a paindu language :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



Urdu is perhaps the most classy language of all the languages in the subcontinent.

Conquerors language is always classy.

Nawab's words always sound better than the servant.
 
I am not an expert on languages. But when I listen to Pakistani News Channels and discussions, I can see how much Arabic you guys use.
At least Sanskrit is our language. Arabic is an invaders language.

It may sound Arabic to you because to your untrained ears any word not within the Hindi vocabulary are considered Arabic, whereas these words are uniquely Urdu. There is very little overlap between Arabic and Urdu, now I would recommend you stop acting like a language expert because you do not know the alif, bay, pay, of Urdu.
 
It may sound Arabic to you because to your untrained ears any word not within the Hindi vocabulary are considered Arabic, whereas these words are uniquely Urdu. There is very little overlap between Arabic and Urdu, now I would recommend you stop acting like a language expert because you do not know the alif, bay, pay, of Urdu.

What are those Urdu only words that is specific only to Urdu?

Urdu is a mix of Khari Boli and Arabic/Persian. No other way to put it.


Urdu, like Hindi, is a form of Hindustani.[24] It evolved from the medieval (6th to 13th century) Apabhraṃśa register of the preceding Shauraseni language, a Middle Indo-Aryan language that is also the ancestor of other modern Indo-Aryan languages. Around 75% of Urdu words have their etymological roots in Sanskrit and Prakrit,[25][26][27] and approximately 99% of Urdu verbs have their roots in Sanskrit and Prakrit.[28] Because Persian-speaking sultans ruled the Indian subcontinent for a number of centuries,[29] Urdu was influenced by Persian and to a lesser extent, Arabic, which have contributed to about 25% of Urdu's vocabulary.[25][30][31][32][33][34][35] Although the word Urdu is derived from the Turkic word ordu (army) or orda, from which English horde is also derived,[36] Turkic borrowings in Urdu are minimal[37] and Urdu is also not genetically related to the Turkic languages. Urdu words originating from Chagatai and Arabic were borrowed through Persian and hence are Persianized versions of the original words. For instance, the Arabic ta' marbuta ( ة ) changes to he ( ه ) or te ( ت ).[38][note 1] Nevertheless, contrary to popular belief, Urdu did not borrow from the Turkish language, but from Chagatai, a Turkic language from Central Asia. Urdu and Turkish borrowed from Arabic and Persian, hence the similarity in pronunciation of many Urdu and Turkish words.[39]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urdu
 
It may sound Arabic to you because to your untrained ears any word not within the Hindi vocabulary are considered Arabic, whereas these words are uniquely Urdu. There is very little overlap between Arabic and Urdu, now I would recommend you stop acting like a language expert because you do not know the alif, bay, pay, of Urdu.

Urdu does have lots of words derived from Arabic and Persian. That's a fact, it has nothing to do with what it sounds like.

And stop acting like only Pakistanis know Urdu. India has more native Urdu speakers than Pakistan.
 
Urdu does have lots of words derived from Arabic and Persian. That's a fact, it has nothing to do with what it sounds like.

And stop acting like only Pakistanis know Urdu. India has more native Urdu speakers than Pakistan.

India may have more native speakers of Urdu but that does not mean you or troodon know it. So don't run mouth.
 
India may have more native speakers of Urdu but that does not mean you or troodon know it. So don't run mouth.

We are not claiming we are Urdu speakers. But just letting you know what Urdu is. Read my post above.

Urdu and Hindi are kids from the same mother, but different fathers :))
 
We are not claiming we are Urdu speakers. But just letting you know what Urdu is. Read my post above.

Urdu and Hindi are kids from the same mother, but different fathers :))

I don't know what the point is then... half the European languages have origin from same language. So that means French and English are same languages?



Matlab kuch bhi?
 
I don't know what the point is then... half the European languages have origin from same language. So that means French and English are same languages?



Matlab kuch bhi?

I don't know enough about French and stuff.

But I can tell you that Hindi and Urdu are exactly like Khari Boli. Hindi uses Sanskrit words lavishly and Urdu uses Arabic/Persian words lavishly.

I can make another language by combining Khari Boli and English. Ohh wait! It's called Hinglish already.

You can make any number of languages this way.
 
I don't know enough about French and stuff.

But I can tell you that Hindi and Urdu are exactly like Khari Boli. Hindi uses Sanskrit words lavishly and Urdu uses Arabic/Persian words lavishly.

I can make another language by combining Khari Boli and English. Ohh wait! It's called Hinglish already.

You can make any number of languages this way.

Then why can't you read even a simple sentence in Urdu?
 
Main problem with Urdu was lack of a simple script. Arabic-persian script used for Urdu is too difficult to learn and was a pain for typesetting. Urdu newspapers and books were meticulously calligraphed with the hand till early 1990s even in Pakistan till Inpage and other Urdu software showed up.

Many languages in India gave up their script to adopt more typesetting-friendly versions. Marathi gave away its script entirely and adopted devnagari.

Government is not entirely to blame. If you want to start an Urdu school/college, norms are much relaxed compared to a Hindi/English school specially if it is a minority management institution.

Problem is a kid has to learn too many languages in places like Maharashtra and Gujarat. For him to learn Urdu, he has to learn Urdu+English+Hindi+Marathi/Gujarati. Now rural kids opting for careers in engineering/technology and pharma/medicine prefer learning only three languages. Most south Indians only learn two even dropping Hindi. Urban kids prefer various business, commerce, hospitality, outsourced processes and communications related careers. Their choice of language is English with a passable Hindi which has given rise to dialects like Hinglish in Indian cities.

The quoted article reports merging of Urdu schools. These schools were merged in several states because there were not enough students and these were running on government grants. This has happened with other languages as well.

As I say norms are more relaxed for minority institutions. Other schools have to enroll at least 30 students per sanctioned division while minority institutions require 15. That means an school with less than 30 students per division for a number of years (different in different states) is shut down and merged with the nearest school. A minority run school can continue with at least 15. This rule applies only to schools which receive government grants or in other words government pays staff salaries.

For private institutions, norms are even more relaxed for minority. There are no reservation quotas like scheduled castes and tribes which other private schools have to follow. They can pretty much admit anyone they like to. They are even safe from government fee fixation (Yes government regulates fee based on facilities provided). Christian mission run institutes have most benefited from these rules and admit whoever they like and collect whatever fees they desire.
 
For your information look at British era postings or signs in Karachi they're either Gujarati or Sindhi but in Devanagari script.
Urdu was foreign to Pakistan and usurped local languages.
 
That article connects with me in first para. My hometown is same. And I also used to sit on benches of Gandhi Maidan sometimes during my college years.

I haven't read whole article but Urdu is going to survive in India. So many people speak and write in Urdu in India. It is not going anywhere.
 
Urdu is my mother tongue and I’ve no qualm in saying that Urdu is quite a useless language with a very limited vocabulary. I don’t know why Punjabi’s are so obsessed with it. if I’m not wrong they are the only people in Pakistan who ask their children to talk only in Urdu, I haven’t observed this inferiority complex among Pathans or Sindhis. The only reason why Urdu was considered a beautiful language compare to other Indian languages (almost all Indian languages sound horrible to ears) was the excessive use of the Persian and Arabic loan words, and the use of those loan words has been declined considerably since we stopped learning Persian. I will make sure that my children (unlike me unfortunately) get a good command over the English language so that they can get access to the whole knowledge of this world. Whereas the only thing Urdu has got to offer is some poetry.
 
Many languages in India gave up their script to adopt more typesetting-friendly versions. Marathi gave away its script entirely and adopted devnagari.

It seems typesetting wasn't the reason for adopting devnagari.

"From the 13th century until the beginning of British rule in 19th century, Marathi was written in the Modi script for administrative purposes but in Devnagari for literature."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathi_language
 
Can't believe people are calling Urdu a paindu language :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



Urdu is perhaps the most classy language of all the languages in the subcontinent.

Classy language? :)) are we living in 1850s .

Is that the impression people get when a Pakistani Cricketer can't give an interview in English but opts for Urdu instead? Are Sarfaraz Ahmad or Inzamam or Razzaq or Akmal considered Classy and Intellectuals because of speaking Urdu or rather paindus for not knowing English ?

People generally laugh at those who speak in Urdu and don't know English, if Urdu was so classy people wouldn't do that.

English is the Gold Standard of Elite Class and the language that Middle Classes in SC or atleast in India aspire to be fluent in, and not some Urdu. Even the modern day Bollywood Stars, including the Khans prefer to speak in English in Public and maintain a separate sophisticated image different from their target audience of Hindi/Urdu speakers.
 
Classy language? :)) are we living in 1850s .

Is that the impression people get when a Pakistani Cricketer can't give an interview in English but opts for Urdu instead? Are Sarfaraz Ahmad or Inzamam or Razzaq or Akmal considered Classy and Intellectuals because of speaking Urdu or rather paindus for not knowing English ?

People generally laugh at those who speak in Urdu and don't know English, if Urdu was so classy people wouldn't do that.

English is the Gold Standard of Elite Class and the language that Middle Classes in SC or atleast in India aspire to be fluent in, and not some Urdu. Even the modern day Bollywood Stars, including the Khans prefer to speak in English in Public and maintain a separate sophisticated image different from their target audience of Hindi/Urdu speakers.

yup, french and chinese are also paindus for the world.
 
Urdu is the medium of communication for the subcontinental elite and intellectuals
 
Classy language? :)) are we living in 1850s .

Is that the impression people get when a Pakistani Cricketer can't give an interview in English but opts for Urdu instead? Are Sarfaraz Ahmad or Inzamam or Razzaq or Akmal considered Classy and Intellectuals because of speaking Urdu or rather paindus for not knowing English ?

People generally laugh at those who speak in Urdu and don't know English, if Urdu was so classy people wouldn't do that.

English is the Gold Standard of Elite Class and the language that Middle Classes in SC or atleast in India aspire to be fluent in, and not some Urdu. Even the modern day Bollywood Stars, including the Khans prefer to speak in English in Public and maintain a separate sophisticated image different from their target audience of Hindi/Urdu speakers.

Akmal brothers, Razzaq etc speak a *******ized version of Urdu heavily influenced by Punjabi
 
Perhaps Pakistan adopting it as its national language might have something to do with it.


We might speak Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashto, Baluchi, Seraiki, Kashmiri or even English(burger crowd) in our homes but overwhelming majority of Pakistanis can converse in Urdu and this is what unites us as a nation.


However, more and more I'm seeing that Urdu is even used in homes and provincial languages are going in the background. I'm from Urdu speaking background so language at home was always Urdu.
It’s true now but majority of Pakistanis 35-40 years ago did not speak Urdu. Approximately 60% spoke Punjabi, and then Sindhi, pushto whatever. But with My generation was the one where even though Punjabi is our mother tongue, our elders spoke with us in Urdu because it’s whats used in schools for education.
 
Urdu is the medium of communication for the subcontinental elite and intellectuals

Acha, Indian elites speak Urdu? :))

Yes all Indian speak Urdu to appear Cool and not English :))

Bangaldesh rejected Urdu but delusions are still strong.
 
Akmal brothers, Razzaq etc speak a *******ized version of Urdu heavily influenced by Punjabi

Yeah because everytime Sarfaraz speaks in Urdu, everyone is so impressed and considers him an intellectual and elite and don't laugh at his poor English speaking skills.

Simple concept hai, woh bechara Kam pada likha hai Esliye Urdu bol raha hai Warna English bolta.
 
Acha, Indian elites speak Urdu? :))

Yes all Indian speak Urdu to appear Cool and not English :))

Bangaldesh rejected Urdu but delusions are still strong.

Indian Muslim elites, my apologies.

Hyderabad and UP muslimelites for sure speak Urdu
 
Urdu is also even suffering in Pakistan these days. Youngsters are mixing English with it.
 
Urdu is also even suffering in Pakistan these days. Youngsters are mixing English with it.

Given that Urdu was created by mixing a lot of Arabic and Persian words into Prakrit, it would seem rather appropriate to mix English into it now!
 
Main problem with Urdu was lack of a simple script. Arabic-persian script used for Urdu is too difficult to learn and was a pain for typesetting. Urdu newspapers and books were meticulously calligraphed with the hand till early 1990s even in Pakistan till Inpage and other Urdu software showed up.

Many languages in India gave up their script to adopt more typesetting-friendly versions. Marathi gave away its script entirely and adopted devnagari.

Government is not entirely to blame. If you want to start an Urdu school/college, norms are much relaxed compared to a Hindi/English school specially if it is a minority management institution.

Problem is a kid has to learn too many languages in places like Maharashtra and Gujarat. For him to learn Urdu, he has to learn Urdu+English+Hindi+Marathi/Gujarati. Now rural kids opting for careers in engineering/technology and pharma/medicine prefer learning only three languages. Most south Indians only learn two even dropping Hindi. Urban kids prefer various business, commerce, hospitality, outsourced processes and communications related careers. Their choice of language is English with a passable Hindi which has given rise to dialects like Hinglish in Indian cities.

The quoted article reports merging of Urdu schools. These schools were merged in several states because there were not enough students and these were running on government grants. This has happened with other languages as well.

As I say norms are more relaxed for minority institutions. Other schools have to enroll at least 30 students per sanctioned division while minority institutions require 15. That means an school with less than 30 students per division for a number of years (different in different states) is shut down and merged with the nearest school. A minority run school can continue with at least 15. This rule applies only to schools which receive government grants or in other words government pays staff salaries.

For private institutions, norms are even more relaxed for minority. There are no reservation quotas like scheduled castes and tribes which other private schools have to follow. They can pretty much admit anyone they like to. They are even safe from government fee fixation (Yes government regulates fee based on facilities provided). Christian mission run institutes have most benefited from these rules and admit whoever they like and collect whatever fees they desire.

Very informative post, thanks. The Indian government does have quite a few liberal policies to help minorities.
 
Very informative post, thanks. The Indian government does have quite a few liberal policies to help minorities.

Unfortunately, popularity of a language nowadays is directly proportional to employment opportunities available after learning that language.

Whatever disease Urdu is suffering from is also affecting other Indian languages.

Widespread urbanization means many tribal languages in India are on the verge of extinction. Parents and elders speak that language but young people whose parents moved to metros for employment have only passable knowledge of their culture and language.

Some of these tribal languages don't have a written script and when they die, a part of our history and culture is permanently lost.

Many regional level schools are closing and are replaced by English medium schools in their own states.

Its funny that contrary to most of the replies on this thread, Pakistan's economic condition is most responsible for Urdu's plight.

Consider if (a very huge IF) Pakistan would have been an economic superpower, importing lots of services and software a la Europe, many people in India/China will be actively seeking to learn Urdu and make a living out of it. They learn English, French, German and even east Asian languages by studying 12 hours a day in torture-courses anyway.
 
I grew up resenting Urdu.
But over the past few years I have realised what a rich and fertile language it is. There is no comparison. Urdu poetry (the classical type - not the rubbish you hear in Bollywood) is probably the best piece of literature you can come across. A shame more people in the world can't speak/read it.

It will be India's loss if they part with Urdu. Glad to know Pakistanis own the language.
 
I grew up resenting Urdu.
But over the past few years I have realised what a rich and fertile language it is. There is no comparison. Urdu poetry (the classical type - not the rubbish you hear in Bollywood) is probably the best piece of literature you can come across. A shame more people in the world can't speak/read it.

It will be India's loss if they part with Urdu. Glad to know Pakistanis own the language.

How did you come to the conclusion that urdu poetry is probably the best piece of literature? How many other languages did you study for this comparison?
 
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