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India cannot topple Pakistan as Asia's GOAT Test team before April 2026

Junaids

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Test cricket is rather like the Ranfurly Shield in rugby: your status is not acquired by cheap (e.g. home) victories - someone should tell Australia and India - but rather by going unbeaten for prolonged periods of time.

Perhaps a better comparison is football's World Cup. Lose once and you might still end up as the winners. Lose twice and you're finished.

The benchmark in Asian cricket is Imran Khan's second spell as Pakistan captain, when he was joined in the pace attack by first Wasim Akram, then Aaqib Javed and Waqar Younis, as well as having first Abdul Qadir and then Mushtaq Ahmed.

Imran's first series in charge was in October 1985 at home to Sri Lanka.

His last series was in January 1992 again at home to Sri Lanka.

In those 6 years and 3 months, Pakistan drew 3 series against the GOAT West Indies team and lost a single series, 1-0 in Australia - a series in which they finished 4 wickets short of squaring the series in the drawn Test at Adelaide.

1-0 was Pakistan's one and only Test series defeat between February 1985 and May 1993 - a period of 8 years and 3 months.

Now look where India stands now.

They have been ranked as the Number 1 Test team for some time - primarily due to two factors - a long period of avoiding overseas tours, and the overall historic level of weakness of all Test teams.

But they lost in January 2018 in South Africa (2-1 after they won the dead rubber after losing the series).

And now they have lost 4-1 in England.

4-1 is a crushing margin for any team with pretensions to greatness. Imran's Pakistan lost that single series by a 1-0 margin and drew three series against West Indies teams which were vastly stronger than the 2018 South African and English teams which crushed India.

So the situation for India is now stark.

Having already lost 2 series in 2018, in order to match the 1985-1993 Pakistanis they would have to not lose a single Test series again for the same 8 years and 3 months from the first defeat - i.e. go unbeaten until April 2026.

Can they do it?

And even if they did, can a team which has lost a series 4-1 seriously lay claim to being the Greatest Asian team of All Time?

Mind you, is anyone surprised?

Virat Kohli is probably a decent competitor to Javed Miandad.

But where is India's Imran Khan, Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis? Ishant and Shami are decent bowlers, but they are not Wasim or Waqar!

The gulf in quality is simply vast.

And for India the task is now stark. They cannot claim to be Asia's greatest Test team prior to April 2026 - and they can only get there by remaining unbeaten home or away in Test series until that time.
 
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This is not India's best test team. The best one was between 2007-2011 till WC 2011.
 
It has get to stop. Not even we care THIS much about #1 than OP. yup, we use to gloat for banter but its going down as serious obsession in some people.
 
Nobody claimed they were some GOAT test team . But what is undeniable is that this team is better than England 2011-2012 who got humiliated 3-0 away on their first away tour :ajmal2 and then got beaten 2-0 at home. Most undeserving number 1 side. :yk2
 
Old rules and lot of matches ended up in a draw. If those matches under Imran were to play in this era, I am pretty certain he will have more than 3-4 series loss and ended up just being an average team.
 
Ati t's peak, Asia's GOAT team could not win a single test against one of our weakest touring sides ever in 1989-90.

Sachin, Ankola, Wasan, Razdan were all debutants, Manjrekar and Arshad Ayub had played 5-6 tests.

We were ranked 6 or 7 at that tine.

So, while comparisons based on one series ia fine, true comparison will be when current NZ/SL/WI team tour India and draw the series without letting us win any test.

BTW any side that wins just 20-25% of tests it played, can never ever be a GOAT side in anyways possible.
 
Record of Asia's GOAT team from Nov 1986 to Nov 1990

Played 31 tests, won 6 tests, lost 3 tests

Didn't know drawing so many tests makes you a GOAT team.
 
The robelinda2 of PakPassion - say hello to Junaids!

Click bait titles, outrageous hypothesis - he has them all.
 
Record of Asia's GOAT team from Nov 1986 to Nov 1990

Played 31 tests, won 6 tests, lost 3 tests

Didn't know drawing so many tests makes you a GOAT team.
And of those 31 Tests, 9 were against the West Indies, 3 were in Australia, 5 were in India and 5 were in England.

In other words, they saved the sorts of Test and series that India routinely loses.
 
And of those 31 Tests, 9 were against the West Indies, 3 were in Australia, 5 were in India and 5 were in England.

In other words, they saved the sorts of Test and series that India routinely loses.

It can't be because there are more result oriented pitches these days and the fact that there are neutral umpires /DRS can it despite all the evidence? Wouldn't fit in with your narrative :srini
 
Great thread. India will never overtake us. The last 20 years have been their best period and they are still behind. Now we are a lot better. India will forever be in our shadow.
 
Record of Asia's GOAT team from Nov 1986 to Nov 1990

Played 31 tests, won 6 tests, lost 3 tests

Didn't know drawing so many tests makes you a GOAT team.

It can't be because there are more result oriented pitches these days and the fact that there are neutral umpires /DRS can it despite all the evidence? Wouldn't fit in with your narrative :srini

And of those 31 Tests, 9 were against the West Indies, 3 were in Australia, 5 were in India and 5 were in England.

In other words, they saved the sorts of Test and series that India routinely loses.
No, because Imran Khan’s Pakistan effectively did the following in Test series in that period:

West Indies home - drew (and dismissed them for 53)
India away - won
England away - won
West Indies away - drew
Australia away - lost 1-0
West Indies home - drew

Don’t forget, Imran refused to play the easy series like England and Australia at home!
 
No, because Imran Khan’s Pakistan effectively did the following in Test series in that period:

West Indies home - drew (and dismissed them for 53)
India away - won
England away - won
West Indies away - drew
Australia away - lost 1-0
West Indies home - drew

Don’t forget, Imran refused to play the easy series like England and Australia at home!


I wonder if the embarrassing tour of Sri Lanka in 1986 had something to do with Imran skipping easy series?

The GOAT Asian Test team went to Sri Lanka and were caught with their pants down, losing a Test and drawing one, subsequently finishing with 1-1 which remains one of our most embarrassing Test results to date.

No wonder he had a phobia of playing against minnows.

Any Asian side that loses a Test match to the 1986 version of Sri Lanka has no claim at the GOAT Asian Test team tag.

Team India in the 2000s was the GOAT Asian Test team.
 
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I wonder if the embarrassing tour of Sri Lanka in 1986 had something to do with Imran skipping easy series?

The GOAT Asian Test team went to Sri Lanka and were caught with their pants down, losing a Test and drawing one, subsequently finishing with 1-1 which remains one of our most embarrassing Test results to date.

No wonder he had a phobia of playing against minnows.

Any Asian side that loses a Test match to the 1986 version of Sri Lanka has no claim at the GOAT Asian Test team tag.

Team India in the 2000s was the GOAT Asian Test team.

India lost to Kenya in 2003, also lost to Zimbabwe, and of course to the minnow Pakistan team as you keep telling us. Embarrassing. Humiliating. Disgusting
 
India lost to Kenya in 2003, also lost to Zimbabwe, and of course to the minnow Pakistan team as you keep telling us. Embarrassing. Humiliating. Disgusting

We are talking about Test cricket here. Kenya has not played a single Test.

Yes India lost a Test in Zimbabwe in 2001, but the 2001 Zimbabwe was clearly better than the 1986 Sri Lanka.
 
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Team India in the 2000s was the GOAT Asian Test team.

Absolutely not.

The 2000’s Indians were the GOAT Asian batting team, but they couldn’t bowl to save their lives.

In 2006-07 both India and Pakistan toured South Africa and lost 2-1.

Your GOAT Indian team wasn’t even the best team from the Indian subcontinent to tour South Africa that year!
 
A GOAT test team that we dont even remember,nor does anybody.All i remember of this team is that it failed to win a single match against one of the weakest indian sides at home.
 
Great thread. India will never overtake us. The last 20 years have been their best period and they are still behind. Now we are a lot better. India will forever be in our shadow.

We overtook you in 2011.We have more world cups(without rain and dua),
more CTs,
more test series wins in england,
same away record in SA and far better record at home against them -whereas pakistan has never even won a home series against SA,
we have actually drawn a series in australia during their GOAT period,did you even win a test in australia in the modern age,even with your 'GOAT' team?
And at home we have lost just 5 series in last 40 years.No team has a better record than that,nobody.Not even australia.
 
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India is one of most boring sides Ive ever had the misfortune of watching. Mentally weak, useless bowling, and just bat bat bat..boring..Pakistan will always be a better side and a more entertaining side that everyone will remember..reverse swing doosra and all sorts of other stuff..

India bus bat bat bat tendu bat bat kohli, bat bat..borring..
 
I will always remember the so called GOAT fab four overhyped lot bamboozled by afridi in bangalore lol..our worst ever bowling attack..

ten years of a boycott and we still go on winning trophies and punching hard..Still cant forget karachi 2006 again the fab four made to literally bow down in shame..
 
India is one of most boring sides Ive ever had the misfortune of watching. Mentally weak, useless bowling, and just bat bat bat..boring..Pakistan will always be a better side and a more entertaining side that everyone will remember..reverse swing doosra and all sorts of other stuff..

India bus bat bat bat tendu bat bat kohli, bat bat..borring..

Mentally weak best chasers in the world vs mentally strong cant chase 250,lol.
 
I will always remember the so called GOAT fab four overhyped lot bamboozled by afridi in bangalore lol..our worst ever bowling attack..

ten years of a boycott and we still go on winning trophies and punching hard..Still cant forget karachi 2006 again the fab four made to literally bow down in shame..

Yeah is till remember sehwag ending saqlain mushtaq's career.Irfan pathan humiliating mhd yousuf.Defeating pak in pak in both tests and ODIs.
Sohail vs prasad immortal moment in banglaore.
Sachin breaking akhtar mentally at centurion in 2003 and all time greats kneeling before the little master.
Misbah the joker in 2007 final.
Afridi's tears at mohali.
11-0.Ah,golden memories.
 
Yeah is till remember sehwag ending saqlain mushtaq's career.Irfan pathan humiliating mhd yousuf.Defeating pak in pak in both tests and ODIs.
Sohail vs prasad immortal moment in banglaore.
Sachin breaking akhtar mentally at centurion in 2003 and all time greats kneeling before the little master.
Misbah the joker in 2007 final.
Afridi's tears at mohali.
11-0.Ah,golden memories.

thats all you have..lol..

Miandads one six destroyed your nation for nearly thirty years..lol
 
In which popular cricket magazine or TV show this is discussed? An arbitrary comparison just in Pakpassion Fantasy!
 
thats all you have..lol..

Miandads one six destroyed your nation for nearly thirty years..lol

When was that ,grandpa's time?
All i remember of miandad is his hopeless defeated eyes as he walks back to pavilion in bangalore in 1996.
The destruction i remember is sachin going after akhtar and mentally breaking him in 2003,when he fled for coming in to bowl next over - mujhse aj bowling nehi ho raha he -lolz.
 
Historically Pakistan are just so far ahead of the rest of Asia, even with India's lopsided home seasons in recent times, they can't catch up. It is just plain embarrassing.
 
Safe to say India's number 1 ranking has hurt so many people, you can sense from this kind of threads after threads.
 
Historically Pakistan are just so far ahead of the rest of Asia, even with India's lopsided home seasons in recent times, they can't catch up. It is just plain embarrassing.

How?
We have more world cups.
More CTs.
More test series wins in england overall.
Better away record in australia.
Same away record in SA,and much better at home.

And we have the best home record of all test nations.In last 40 years we have lost just 5 series at home.

By which parameter is Pak 'far ahead' of asia.Good joke btw.
 
How?
We have more world cups.
More CTs.
More test series wins in england overall.
Better away record in australia.
Same away record in SA,and much better at home.

And we have the best home record of all test nations.In last 40 years we have lost just 5 series at home.

By which parameter is Pak 'far ahead' of asia.Good joke btw.

This is a test discussion so no idea what the ODI side has to do with it (plus you only have 1 CT win, the other was a shared trophy because a final was never played).

In terms of tests, Pakistan is better at home and away and has the best win loss ratio (much bettert han India). Up until SA overtook it, we were 3rd best after Aus and Eng.

If that's a joke, then I'm fine with it.
 
When was that ,grandpa's time?
All i remember of miandad is his hopeless defeated eyes as he walks back to pavilion in bangalore in 1996.
The destruction i remember is sachin going after akhtar and mentally breaking him in 2003,when he fled for coming in to bowl next over - mujhse aj bowling nehi ho raha he -lolz.

yes of course try to make it sound insignificant by calling it grandpas's time..you must be a recent addition to this planet then where history started five years ago..lol.

oh bhai your team has so many scars from the epic beatings we have inflicted on you that you refuse to tour the UAE lol..I mean the world series in asutrailia in 2000's was one of the most epic beat downs in the history of the game..your so called over hyped 53 chested fab four were reduced to nobodies.

but who can ever forget our young asif reminding tendu to bow down when a pakistani bowls at him..lol..

by the way can you tell me what the Pakistan vs India finals record looks like? as in finals in which both have appeared against each other? I hear it is abysmal reading for the worlds greatest shooperishtaars..

you just sit down and look at the 6 wins you have against us in 50 over WC's..in which the majority really didnt affect our transition in that tournament and are pretty meaningless..I guess we used to feel sorry for your useless team and its trevails outside the Mumbai city limits..lol
 
This is a test discussion so no idea what the ODI side has to do with it (plus you only have 1 CT win, the other was a shared trophy because a final was never played).

In terms of tests, Pakistan is better at home and away and has the best win loss ratio (much bettert han India). Up until SA overtook it, we were 3rd best after Aus and Eng.

If that's a joke, then I'm fine with it.

Oh my bad, if its just tests then there's just no contest. Simply watching bangalore in 86 and 2005/06 is a classic example of what Pakistan has been doing to india over the years..
 
How?
We have more world cups.
More CTs.
More test series wins in england overall.
Better away record in australia.
Same away record in SA,and much better at home.

And we have the best home record of all test nations.In last 40 years we have lost just 5 series at home.

By which parameter is Pak 'far ahead' of asia.Good joke btw.
More asia cups as well
 
thats all you have..lol..

Miandads one six destroyed your nation for nearly thirty years..lol

How many WC matches did Miandad win for Pakistan againist India? Lol at one six destroyed us.

Let me tell you what destroyed a nation, A six over point that shut up an attack consisting of 2Ws and Akhtar.
 
How many WC matches did Miandad win for Pakistan againist India? Lol at one six destroyed us.

Let me tell you what destroyed a nation, A six over point that shut up an attack consisting of 2Ws and Akhtar.

No! it didn't.

When has Pakistan ever won a match against India in world cup? nothing new happened there.

That was Two W's last tournament, both were going to hang their boots after that tournament. About Akthar, he was still able to send few deliveries on the head of Tendulkar and connect in other matches.

But that one Six is talked about and it had almost ruined the career of a few player on Indian side.

But we all understand where are you coming from and why you always have to defend indefensible.
 
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We overtook you in 2011.We have more world cups(without rain and dua),
more CTs,
more test series wins in england,
same away record in SA and far better record at home against them -whereas pakistan has never even won a home series against SA,
we have actually drawn a series in australia during their GOAT period,did you even win a test in australia in the modern age,even with your 'GOAT' team?
And at home we have lost just 5 series in last 40 years.No team has a better record than that,nobody.Not even australia.

Won home series in 2003 v SA.

In England I believe it's 3-3.
 
What's the peak rating trends for all Asian test teams? How long they sustained high ratings?
 
How many WC matches did Miandad win for Pakistan againist India? Lol at one six destroyed us.

Let me tell you what destroyed a nation, A six over point that shut up an attack consisting of 2Ws and Akhtar.

only in your minds. That match meant nothing to us..You'd be surprised to know..we were pretty much done and dusted in that tournament and the six over point was just another shot. That match was won by dravid and yuvi not tendulkar. The two W's were washed up and done in that tournament. Wasim was a diabetic and waqar was bowling at 80 mph..

However it proved to be quite therapeutic to you guys..you needed something to wash off the psychological damage that miandad six that meant way more than a measely six over point. Miandads six was on the last ball of a match against the world champions where we were losing. After that I believe we won 20 odd straight matches against you..

And nothing beats the absolute hammering you guys got in the world series tournament which was a proper ODI test of ones ability..

As for the WC two matches mattered. The rest did not..In the end youve only ever won one more trophy than us even though youve beaten us in some insiginificant group matches..

Tell me can you show me the Pakistan vs India finals record? these are matches that really matter..when a trophy is on the line..We have hardly lost a final to you..minor WC group games mean nothing in the grand scheme of things..yes 2011 was a meaningful match and so was 1996..the rest mean diddly squat.
 
I am the first one to call out Indian fans as delusional when they rave about no:1 ranking and I must say all those PPers who consider imran khan's team as some kinda great team or imran Khan as a great captain are equally delusional. Here's for starter -

1. All the hype and hoopla and Imran khan won like 12 or 14 test matches under his captaincy of 50 he captained.

2. Khan Saab won 3 test matches outside Asia, that's rite just 3. The one match he won against WI in WI had no Richards, no marshal. It was a test match against WI B team with fast bowling attack having played a total of 10 test matches between them

3. Of all the influential captains you would have hesrd of, Imran was the one with chicken approach to test matches i.e draw. Inspite of having a great bowling unit under him, he started the concept of phatta wickets. Scores of 500 and 600 were common in Pakistan and draw used to be the main motive of playing.

Like it or not, Kohli has so much of a better test record than Imran. Hasn't Kohli already won more than 4 test matches outside Asia or 15 overall? So much so for imran's hype.

You will never find a place for Imran Khan in any legends XI unless if the legends are Pakistan cricketers. Pakistan had great talents but that team under Imran was a scared draw specialist.
 
only in your minds. That match meant nothing to us..You'd be surprised to know..we were pretty much done and dusted in that tournament and the six over point was just another shot. That match was won by dravid and yuvi not tendulkar. The two W's were washed up and done in that tournament. Wasim was a diabetic and waqar was bowling at 80 mph..

However it proved to be quite therapeutic to you guys..you needed something to wash off the psychological damage that miandad six that meant way more than a measely six over point. Miandads six was on the last ball of a match against the world champions where we were losing. After that I believe we won 20 odd straight matches against you..

And nothing beats the absolute hammering you guys got in the world series tournament which was a proper ODI test of ones ability..

As for the WC two matches mattered. The rest did not..In the end youve only ever won one more trophy than us even though youve beaten us in some insiginificant group matches..

Tell me can you show me the Pakistan vs India finals record? these are matches that really matter..when a trophy is on the line..We have hardly lost a final to you..minor WC group games mean nothing in the grand scheme of things..yes 2011 was a meaningful match and so was 1996..the rest mean diddly squat.

If group matches dont mean much to you lets hope the cricket team does not think way that in 2019
 
I am the first one to call out Indian fans as delusional when they rave about no:1 ranking and I must say all those PPers who consider imran khan's team as some kinda great team or imran Khan as a great captain are equally delusional. Here's for starter -

1. All the hype and hoopla and Imran khan won like 12 or 14 test matches under his captaincy of 50 he captained.

2. Khan Saab won 3 test matches outside Asia, that's rite just 3. The one match he won against WI in WI had no Richards, no marshal. It was a test match against WI B team with fast bowling attack having played a total of 10 test matches between them

3. Of all the influential captains you would have hesrd of, Imran was the one with chicken approach to test matches i.e draw. Inspite of having a great bowling unit under him, he started the concept of phatta wickets. Scores of 500 and 600 were common in Pakistan and draw used to be the main motive of playing.

Like it or not, Kohli has so much of a better test record than Imran. Hasn't Kohli already won more than 4 test matches outside Asia or 15 overall? So much so for imran's hype.

You will never find a place for Imran Khan in any legends XI unless if the legends are Pakistan cricketers. Pakistan had great talents but that team under Imran was a scared draw specialist.

What? So, so far I was thinking Imran won against full force WI team, my bad.
 
It's true.

The Pakistani Test side is still the greatest of all time Asian Test side.

I don't see parosis getting that spot anytime soon, even though they have Kohli. You need much more than that. They don't have world class bowlers.

And just Kohli won't always drag them out of trouble. He did it in Aus. But they've been getting humiliated elsewhere.
 
I am the first one to call out Indian fans as delusional when they rave about no:1 ranking and I must say all those PPers who consider imran khan's team as some kinda great team or imran Khan as a great captain are equally delusional. Here's for starter -

1. All the hype and hoopla and Imran khan won like 12 or 14 test matches under his captaincy of 50 he captained.

2. Khan Saab won 3 test matches outside Asia, that's rite just 3. The one match he won against WI in WI had no Richards, no marshal. It was a test match against WI B team with fast bowling attack having played a total of 10 test matches between them

3. Of all the influential captains you would have hesrd of, Imran was the one with chicken approach to test matches i.e draw. Inspite of having a great bowling unit under him, he started the concept of phatta wickets. Scores of 500 and 600 were common in Pakistan and draw used to be the main motive of playing.

Like it or not, Kohli has so much of a better test record than Imran. Hasn't Kohli already won more than 4 test matches outside Asia or 15 overall? So much so for imran's hype.

You will never find a place for Imran Khan in any legends XI unless if the legends are Pakistan cricketers. Pakistan had great talents but that team under Imran was a scared draw specialist.

1). Correct but the majority of Test matches were drawn in those days.

2). His 3 Test Wins Outside Asia resulted in a series victory against England and a tied series with perhaps the greatest team in Test Cricket History. The notion that it was a B Side is hilarious and the fast bowling attack had Walsh, Patterson, and Ambrose between them where only Ambrose was making his debut despite giving the Pakistanis a whipping in the ODI series just before! Less than six months later he toured Australia and took 20+ wickets. Not to mention Walsh had four years of experience and was coming off a 20+ wicket tour of India and Patterson had a successful two years prior and a five-fer' in India as well.

3). Scores of 500 and 600 were common in Pakistan til the last series was played there in 2009. It's part of the reason why reverse swing was necessary to bowlers who came through Pakistan and why they have produced decent spinners over the years. An outlier such as the Karachi Test is largely due to the wind and breeze found during that particular period.

Kohli has yet to win ONE overseas Test series and he lost 1-4 in England as just recently concluded.
 
1)Kohli has yet to win ONE overseas Test series and he lost 1-4 in England as just recently concluded.

And how many overseas series did Imran khan win over 10 yrs of captaincy? Kohli already has overseas wins against Lanka/Wi, just like Imran had one against Lanka. Only thing Imran did was win a series against england, Kohli is in 3rd year of captaincy, he will win one against eng/SA/Australia before his 10th year don't worry.
 
3). Scores of 500 and 600 were common in Pakistan til the last series was played there in 2009. It's part of the reason why reverse swing was necessary to bowlers who came through Pakistan and why they have produced decent spinners over the years. An outlier such as the Karachi Test is largely due to the wind and breeze found during that particular period.

Imran khan started the concept of flat ugly wickets in Pakistan, doesn't matter how long it continued. Neither Lanka nor India had such pitches, but Imran goal was to not loose a test match, he never had the courage to go for wins. That's why more than 75% of his captained matches were draws. That's all he was good for, rest is all fluff. There's a reason why Imran doesn't get too much praise outside this forum or never get near any world XI, because those who have played against him know what good he was.
 
After reading all these posts and if they are true, it seems like Imran is more hyped over cricketer than likes of UA.
 
After reading all these posts and if they are true, it seems like Imran is more hyped over cricketer than likes of UA.

I was going to respond to your earlier post but seeing this, you are clearly not serious.
 
Okay ji. But i feel junaids ji being very humble. Thanks for make it 2026 and not 3026.
 
How many WC matches did Miandad win for Pakistan againist India? Lol at one six destroyed us.

Let me tell you what destroyed a nation, A six over point that shut up an attack consisting of 2Ws and Akhtar.

here he is talking about test cricket.
 
They aren't going to go 8 years undefeated lol. They aren't the greatest Asian test team, heck they aren't even the greatest Indian test team.
 
I was going to respond to your earlier post but seeing this, you are clearly not serious.

Only posters who support Pak fans are serious, right? Imran won grand total of 3 tests out side Asia. Yes the number is only 3.
 
Imran khan started the concept of flat ugly wickets in Pakistan, doesn't matter how long it continued. Neither Lanka nor India had such pitches, but Imran goal was to not loose a test match, he never had the courage to go for wins. That's why more than 75% of his captained matches were draws. That's all he was good for, rest is all fluff. There's a reason why Imran doesn't get too much praise outside this forum or never get near any world XI, because those who have played against him know what good he was.

Please have a look at the scorecards of the 79-80 series between Pakistan and India in Pakistan.

Each Test has at least one innings which crossed 450.

A full two years before Imran became captain.
 
And how many overseas series did Imran khan win over 10 yrs of captaincy? Kohli already has overseas wins against Lanka/Wi, just like Imran had one against Lanka. Only thing Imran did was win a series against england, Kohli is in 3rd year of captaincy, he will win one against eng/SA/Australia before his 10th year don't worry.

Imran led his side to their first Test series wins in England and India.

Let’s see if VK can even get one series win in England or the UAE (if that happens) yet alone any “first time” (SA or AUS).
 
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I wonder if the embarrassing tour of Sri Lanka in 1986 had something to do with Imran skipping easy series?

The GOAT Asian Test team went to Sri Lanka and were caught with their pants down, losing a Test and drawing one, subsequently finishing with 1-1 which remains one of our most embarrassing Test results to date.

No wonder he had a phobia of playing against minnows.

Any Asian side that loses a Test match to the 1986 version of Sri Lanka has no claim at the GOAT Asian Test team tag.

Team India in the 2000s was the GOAT Asian Test team.

This was an inevitable conclusion to be made when you said Pakistan's home record prior to the 90s was rife with ball tampering and biased home umpiring yesterday. I agree with the latter to an extent am aware this stems from your dislike of Imran Khan but I didn't know it was to such extent where you had to come up with this - "Team India in the 2000s was the GOAT Asian Test team".

If this is the case why did they get beaten by a the 2006 Pakistan team which had lesser bowlers than IK, Wasim and Waqar when they were around their peak of the golden generation.

In 1999 when they had Dravid, Tendulkar, Azharuddin, Laxman and Ganguly against Wasim, Waqar and Saeed Anwar who were well past their prime but still won 2 out of 3 tests in India.

So going by this logic how would they stand a chance against the likes of Imran Khan, Miandad, Wasim and Waqar of the 80s?

Like I said I rate you as the top poster on PP but this one is absurd and nonsensical as they come. The 80s Pakistan team was the golden generation that went out and drew 3 -4 series against the Windies who are one of the two, if not the greatest test side of all time.

Dislike for Imran Khan should not cloud your judgement which is plain and clear to see. Believe me I don't say this with PTI or green tints.
 
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India's 2000 > Pakistan's 80s on dust bowls

Although India's 2000 test side had the one of the greatest batting line ups in the history of the game, their bowling was not at the level of Pakistan's batting in the 80s. So in all conditions except dust bowls I would take Pakistan's 80s team
 
This was an inevitable conclusion to be made when you said Pakistan's home record prior to the 90s was rife with ball tampering and biased home umpiring yesterday. I agree with the latter to an extent am aware this stems from your dislike of Imran Khan but I didn't know it was to such extent where you had to come up with this - "Team India in the 2000s was the GOAT Asian Test team".

If this is the case why did they get beaten by a the 2006 Pakistan team which had lesser bowlers than IK, Wasim and Waqar when they were around their peak of the golden generation.

In 1999 when they had Dravid, Tendulkar, Azharuddin, Laxman and Ganguly against Wasim, Waqar and Saeed Anwar who were well past their prime but still won 2 out of 3 tests in India.

So going by this logic how would they stand a chance against the likes of Imran Khan, Miandad, Wasim and Waqar of the 80s?

Like I said I rate you as the top poster on PP but this one is absurd and nonsensical as they come. The 80s Pakistan team was the golden generation that went out and drew 3 -4 series against the Windies who are one of the two, if not the greatest test side of all time.

Dislike for Imran Khan should not cloud your judgement which is plain and clear to see. Believe me I don't say this with PTI or green tints.

The 1999 team was hardly great. Azhar was 38. Laxman was not even a regular in team India and if i am not wrong he was avging in late 20s or early 30s in tests at that point in time. Ganguly and Dravid were 2-3 years into international cricket. This team lost a test series to SA at home in 2000. The first series loss at home in 13 yrs.

But by the early 2000s the team had changed. Ganguly was captain. Dravid was now reaching his peak. Laxman had played a immortal 281 runs innings. Kumble had a able partner in Bhajji. Ganguly had backed young guns like Zaheer in the team.

India went own to draw and win a series in England in those 10yrs.

Won a series in NZ

Won a series in WI

Drew in Aus

Drew in SA

India's record againist the mighty Aussies was perhaps 10-10 in those years. The only team that was regularly giving them competition.
 
India's 2000 > Pakistan's 80s on dust bowls

Although India's 2000 test side had the one of the greatest batting line ups in the history of the game, their bowling was not at the level of Pakistan's batting in the 80s. So in all conditions except dust bowls I would take Pakistan's 80s team

India won tests in Aus Eng NZ SA WI in those years. They were dust bowls?
 
The 1999 team was hardly great. Azhar was 38. Laxman was not even a regular in team India and if i am not wrong he was avging in late 20s or early 30s in tests at that point in time. Ganguly and Dravid were 2-3 years into international cricket. This team lost a test series to SA at home in 2000. The first series loss at home in 13 yrs.

But by the early 2000s the team had changed. Ganguly was captain. Dravid was now reaching his peak. Laxman had played a immortal 281 runs innings. Kumble had a able partner in Bhajji. Ganguly had backed young guns like Zaheer in the team.

India went own to draw and win a series in England in those 10yrs.

Won a series in NZ

Won a series in WI

Drew in Aus

Drew in SA

India's record againist the mighty Aussies was perhaps 10-10 in those years. The only team that was regularly giving them competition.

In Indian conditions it was a good team against Pakistan's ageing ATGs. Ganguly and Dravid had fine records in the 90s. I believe they averaged about 50 combined prior to 2000. I accept Azharuddin was old but I wasn't talking about India's team of the 90s I was specifically focusing on the side of the 99 that faced Pakistan which was similar to the one of 2000s with a potent spin attack as well.

I agree India's side of the 2000s was the golden generation but even at home their team in 05 couldn't beat a Pakistan team in transition (following retirements of Saeed Anwar, Wasim and Waqar) and then when Pakistan found Asif (who had single figure tests under his belt), the bowling attack was still no match for the mid to late 80s ATG pace unit but despite this they still won at home in 06 in overcast conditions.
 
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India won tests in Aus Eng NZ SA WI in those years. They were dust bowls?

You mistakenly assumed I was having a shot at Indian bowlers. All I was saying is that they're not even close to Pakistan's 80s sides. Also what happened to them in Karachi 06 when they had the best conditions for bowling in overcast conditions they still lost. Now can you imagine if Imran Khan's 80s team with a bowling attack of Wasim, Waqar and himself bowling on non-dust bowls against that India side? It would have been a mauling I'm afraid to say Josh.

Pakistan's 80s batting > India's 2000's bowling, which is why it is the greatest Asian test side ever backed up by Junaids' analysis.
 
Okay.

The reason they are significant is that they resulted in a first English series win, SL series win (not a great achievement) and a drawn series with the G.O.A.T Test team.

It is not the number of Tests won that determine necessarily a captain’s legacy but what they led to.

And for Imran Khan, it was a series win in England (same year they won the Ashes), India (since 1987 has been repeated thrice by SA in 2000, AUS in 2004, and ENG in 2012) and the point of losing one series in a span of six years (the one loss due to time lost on an entire day of cricket in Adelaide 89-90’).

Some captains change a team’s fortunes while others change their mindset. Captains like the latter come very few often such as Lloyd, Khan, Border, Ganguly, Vaughan (the last great Test captain).
 
Imran led his side to their first Test series wins in England and India.

Let’s see if VK can even get one series win in England or the UAE (if that happens) yet alone any “first time” (SA or AUS).

Dude wotever little Imran achieved can't be the criteria for others to follow. Kohli has won 22 out of 40 test matches he captained, I say let imran first get to close to 22 then we ll talk about comparing to Kohli. Make no mistake, I am not here to prove that imran was rubbish, but the hype on this forum arnd imran is so disconnected from reality. He was a great swing bowler and a decent captain, nothing more nothing less. That he was a draw specialist and not someone who went for victories is well established. Such people made test cricket boring.
 
Imran led his side to their first Test series wins in England and India.

Let’s see if VK can even get one series win in England or the UAE (if that happens) yet alone any “first time” (SA or AUS).

Oh btw, u shud know this. India had a captain called Ajit wadekar who within 6 months won India its first series against WI in WI, and first series against england in England. Not over 10 years but over 6 effing months. How about that for the greatest captain.
 
only in your minds. That match meant nothing to us..You'd be surprised to know..we were pretty much done and dusted in that tournament and the six over point was just another shot. That match was won by dravid and yuvi not tendulkar. The two W's were washed up and done in that tournament. Wasim was a diabetic and waqar was bowling at 80 mph..

I hope you are talking about the same game the rest of the world saw.
 
Dude wotever little Imran achieved can't be the criteria for others to follow. Kohli has won 22 out of 40 test matches he captained, I say let imran first get to close to 22 then we ll talk about comparing to Kohli. Make no mistake, I am not here to prove that imran was rubbish, but the hype on this forum arnd imran is so disconnected from reality. He was a great swing bowler and a decent captain, nothing more nothing less. That he was a draw specialist and not someone who went for victories is well established. Such people made test cricket boring.

Yes if drawing was the priority, then Kohli would have simply gone with one less bowler (just observe - 1 less bowler almost means a chance of drawing test match as it happened in Oval! Even opposition team doesn't get out for lesser scores, which means they prolong their batting & give themselves a less chance to beat us!) and also he wouldn't have argued with Pujara to up the run rate! Also it wouldn't be too difficult to find 2 more stubborn batsmen from domestic to bite the time like hell! Also it appears like there was an instruction sent in the Tea Break for Rahul & Pant to change their style of play & attack more! A captain like Imran would have suggested them to go even more defensive & ensure a draw!
 
I believe Imran's team was quite good.

But I absolutely laugh at people who suggest drawing away is better than winning at home. (this probably gives more credence to Imran's team that's why such statements are made).

Away wins > Home wins > Away Draws > Home Draws > Away Losses > Home Losses.
 
I believe Imran's team was quite good.

But I absolutely laugh at people who suggest drawing away is better than winning at home. (this probably gives more credence to Imran's team that's why such statements are made).

Away wins > Home wins > Away Draws > Home Draws > Away Losses > Home Losses.
No offence, but I flatly dispute that.

For India or Pakistan to draw an away Test series in Australia or South Africa in my opinion is worth ten times as much as beating those teams in home conditions.

The reverse applies too. For Australia to draw a Test series in India is worth ten home Test series victories against them.

The greatest achievement in Indian Test history is the drawn series in Australia in 2003-4, even though Australia was missing McGrath and Warne.
 
No offence, but I flatly dispute that.

For India or Pakistan to draw an away Test series in Australia or South Africa in my opinion is worth ten times as much as beating those teams in home conditions.

The reverse applies too. For Australia to draw a Test series in India is worth ten home Test series victories against them.

The greatest achievement in Indian Test history is the drawn series in Australia in 2003-4, even though Australia was missing McGrath and Warne.

So what about the 2007 team that won in England? (for India anyways).

You may have your opinion but it is absurd to equate a draw to a win.

Even Premier League side as awful as Huddersfield doesn't get awarded more points to drawing away at Manchester City (a notably tough proposition) vs winning home at Huddersfield (easier for them at their ground) but the win is awarded 3 points and away draw is awarded 1 point.

Infact no sport in history awards more to drawing then to winning.

You may have novel opinions, but at least make sure they make some semblance of sense in form of sport, what to talk of cricket.
 
Yes if drawing was the priority, then Kohli would have simply gone with one less bowler (just observe - 1 less bowler almost means a chance of drawing test match as it happened in Oval! Even opposition team doesn't get out for lesser scores, which means they prolong their batting & give themselves a less chance to beat us!) and also he wouldn't have argued with Pujara to up the run rate! Also it wouldn't be too difficult to find 2 more stubborn batsmen from domestic to bite the time like hell! Also it appears like there was an instruction sent in the Tea Break for Rahul & Pant to change their style of play & attack more! A captain like Imran would have suggested them to go even more defensive & ensure a draw!

Kohli's problem at some level is same as what Imran had. Inspite of a great set of players under him, he was too defensive and went for draws. Kohli on the other hand with an ordinary bunch of players under him is too agressive and goes for victories even when he shouldn't.
 
I believe Imran's team was quite good.

But I absolutely laugh at people who suggest drawing away is better than winning at home. (this probably gives more credence to Imran's team that's why such statements are made).

Away wins > Home wins > Away Draws > Home Draws > Away Losses > Home Losses.

No offence, but I flatly dispute that.

For India or Pakistan to draw an away Test series in Australia or South Africa in my opinion is worth ten times as much as beating those teams in home conditions.

The reverse applies too. For Australia to draw a Test series in India is worth ten home Test series victories against them.

The greatest achievement in Indian Test history is the drawn series in Australia in 2003-4, even though Australia was missing McGrath and Warne.

So what about the 2007 team that won in England? (for India anyways).

You may have your opinion but it is absurd to equate a draw to a win.

Even Premier League side as awful as Huddersfield doesn't get awarded more points to drawing away at Manchester City (a notably tough proposition) vs winning home at Huddersfield (easier for them at their ground) but the win is awarded 3 points and away draw is awarded 1 point.

Infact no sport in history awards more to drawing then to winning.

You may have novel opinions, but at least make sure they make some semblance of sense in form of sport, what to talk of cricket.
Actually, no.

It’s why in the Champions League knockout stages Away Goals count double in the event of an aggregate draw.

India’s 2007 win in England was a great achievement, like the Pakistani wins there in 1987, 1992 and 1996.

But this only really applies in cricket in alien conditions. Which is why an Australian win in Pakistan like in 1998-99 really counts for more than a Sri Lankan win in Pakistan.

Test cricket has three main venues.

Australia and South Africa have pitches where the ball bounces higher from a full length.

England and New Zealand have venues which may offer seam and conventional swing.

Asian pitches offer slow low bounce but may spin late in the game.

It is adapting to alien pitches which is the real challenge in Test cricket. It took India until the last of five Tests before they really started to in England.
 
Actually, no.

It’s why in the Champions League knockout stages Away Goals count double in the event of an aggregate draw.

India’s 2007 win in England was a great achievement, like the Pakistani wins there in 1987, 1992 and 1996.

But this only really applies in cricket in alien conditions. Which is why an Australian win in Pakistan like in 1998-99 really counts for more than a Sri Lankan win in Pakistan.

Test cricket has three main venues.

Australia and South Africa have pitches where the ball bounces higher from a full length.

England and New Zealand have venues which may offer seam and conventional swing.

Asian pitches offer slow low bounce but may spin late in the game.

It is adapting to alien pitches which is the real challenge in Test cricket. It took India until the last of five Tests before they really started to in England.

Two things.

But a HOME WIN in Champions League is NOT lower than drawing AWAY in Champions League.

Home wins STILL COUNT and a draw is just a draw.

You really are clutching at straws here to somehow prove a draw is better than a home win.

Infact NO sport will give a home win less importance than an away draw.
 
[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION]

Firstly, let me clarify that my political views have absolutely no bearing on how I view Imran Khan the cricketer, and this is something that I have made clear on numerous occasions.

For me, Imran Khan the cricketer and Imran Khan the politician are two distinct personalities - I loathe the politician, but I have nothing but utmost admiration and regard for him as a cricketer.

There is no doubt whatsoever that he is one of the greatest players and captains of all time, and perhaps Pakistan’s finest ever cricketer. However, with all said and done, and after so much hoopla over his captaincy, he has only 3 Test wins outside Asia.

There is no doubt that he was a fine captain and he had assembled a quality team, but I do feel that his captaincy gets overhyped because of performances against the West Indies. I agree that they drawing three series against arguably the greatest Test team of all time is a massive feat, but at the same time, he and his team lost a Test (drew the series) in Sri Lanka when they were genuine minnows.

Any Asian Test team that loses a Test match to the 1986 version of Sri Lanka is not the gold standard for Asian Test teams.

Imran’s captaincy and his team were built for drawing matches. He talks a lot about not being afraid of losing, but I am afraid his captaincy record suggests that he was actually quite afraid of losing games, which is why he would happily settle for draws instead of pushing for wins.

However, his safety first approach worked in his era, but I am not sure if it would have worked in the 2000s. One of the biggest reasons why India were the only team to stand up to the legendary Australians in the 2000s was because they adopted a heads on approach and didn’t cower like Pakistan and other teams.

You also pointed out that although the Indian team of the 2000s won a series in Pakistan, they also lost a series to a pretty weak Pakistan team. However, we can also say that the GOAT Pakistan team also struggled to beat a weak Indian team in Pakistan in 1989, a team that was nowhere near the Indian team of the 2000s.
 
[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION]

Firstly, let me clarify that my political views have absolutely no bearing on how I view Imran Khan the cricketer, and this is something that I have made clear on numerous occasions.

For me, Imran Khan the cricketer and Imran Khan the politician are two distinct personalities - I loathe the politician, but I have nothing but utmost admiration and regard for him as a cricketer.

There is no doubt whatsoever that he is one of the greatest players and captains of all time, and perhaps Pakistan’s finest ever cricketer. However, with all said and done, and after so much hoopla over his captaincy, he has only 3 Test wins outside Asia.

There is no doubt that he was a fine captain and he had assembled a quality team, but I do feel that his captaincy gets overhyped because of performances against the West Indies. I agree that they drawing three series against arguably the greatest Test team of all time is a massive feat, but at the same time, he and his team lost a Test (drew the series) in Sri Lanka when they were genuine minnows.

Any Asian Test team that loses a Test match to the 1986 version of Sri Lanka is not the gold standard for Asian Test teams.

Imran’s captaincy and his team were built for drawing matches. He talks a lot about not being afraid of losing, but I am afraid his captaincy record suggests that he was actually quite afraid of losing games, which is why he would happily settle for draws instead of pushing for wins.

However, his safety first approach worked in his era, but I am not sure if it would have worked in the 2000s. One of the biggest reasons why India were the only team to stand up to the legendary Australians in the 2000s was because they adopted a heads on approach and didn’t cower like Pakistan and other teams.

You also pointed out that although the Indian team of the 2000s won a series in Pakistan, they also lost a series to a pretty weak Pakistan team. However, we can also say that the GOAT Pakistan team also struggled to beat a weak Indian team in Pakistan in 1989, a team that was nowhere near the Indian team of the 2000s.

We're talking about an era of cricket that was dominated by draws whereby the cricket was more attrition based. Batsmen were watchful and very skilled in defence.

Imran Khan could be forgiven for drawing a minnow SL side when you look at the bigger picture where he led Pakistan to their first series wins in England and India. They were very good in WI, where they were just 4 wickets away from winning one of those series.

I'm not trying to take away what the Indians achieved in 2003-04 tour of Australia which was a great result against an Aussie team filled with greats and legends of the game but I must add they were without Mcgrath and Warne who arguably most lethal bowling duo known in the history of the game.

Imran Khan was a brave captain and was known for deploying attacking fields. You'll find clips from the 80s in Australia with the old ball where he has 3 slips up. He always went in for the kill looking for wickets unlike from what we saw in Misbah from the 2016-17 tour who was the one truly "afraid of losing".
 
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