India cannot topple Pakistan as Asia's GOAT Test team before April 2026

[Sidilicious]

There’s nothing wrong with draws - it’s actually a positive to save a Test.

Let me give several examples.

1. Pakistan winning 1-0 in India in 86-87 with 4 draws is a triumph.

2. Australia beat New Zealand 1-0 that year thanks to a last wicket partnership securing a draw. Again, a triumph.

Winning an away series 1-0 with 4 draws is masterful. Winning an away series 3-2 is much worse, because you are clearly beatable.

I think you've raised some fairly valid points, especially the performance of an asian nation in SENA. However, your theory about draws doesnt hold, and it also ignores the performance of a nation at home.

1. A series victory in SENAW is by far the most important criteria. It doesnt matter whether the win is by 1-0 or 3-2, a victory is a victory. This is evident from the fact that, up until 2018 end no asian team had ever beaten SA or AUS at home. In England, both Pakistan and India have only won 3 series each in their history. Its only in NZ where Pakistan has had reasonable success. In WI, it was not until 2017, where Pakistan won their first series.

People do not remember drawn series. Its away series wins that are celebrated more. Drawing away is an achievement, however a win is a win.

So, a series win, however it comes, is the first priority. Everything being equal W/L ratio comes into question. Not draws, but W/L ratio. Cricket is now played at a faster pace, and Test cricket is a lot more result oriented than ever before. Thus, its only fair to consider the W/L ratio as the next calculator.

2. Home performances. This is where W/L ratio is king. Most good teams win series at home. But great teams whitewash teams at home. Here, W/L ratio is the king. A team smacking the opposition 5-0 at home is definitely better than a team winning 1-0. Over a few series, a team winning, its home series 5-0, 4-1, 4-1 is better than one winning 1-0,1-0,2-1. Not winning every home series should also be a huge negative for any team trying to be one of the best.

Now lets compare the series results for the Indian team 2016 onwards and Pakistan from 1986-1992.

Pakistan Away won in England and India, drawing in SL, NZ and WI and losing in Aus.
Winning in India and draw in WI was their best results. Win in England was a good result, however the fact that India also recently won 2-0 in England does take off a bit of a shine from the win. Draw in NZ and SL were poor results. Loss in Aus is acceptable, as never has Pakistan beaten Aus in a series.

Comparing that to India
- Eng - poor loss. Given that Pakistan had recently drawn in England, India should have at least drawn here. The result was closer than 4-1, however England was the better team and 4-1 is 4-1 in the records and W/L.
- Aus - people may point out that it was an Aus team sans Warner and Smith, however, never has an asian team beaten Australia even when Aus was down in the dumps in the 80s and when they lost players to WSC. So, a HUGE achievement.
- SA - A close 2-1. Again, disappointing, but loss is loss.
- WI - India have won 2 series in WI , each 2-0. But WI is a weak team so not a huge achievement.
- SL - 3-0 and 2-1 in SL. Again, SL is not the strongest, so a good achievement, but nothing extraordinary.
- Havent played NZ.

So, here India has 1 huge achievement in Aus, 2 decent achievement and 2 dissapointments. So, there away performances are fairly similar, but Pakistan of 86-92 has the edge due to better W/L in SENAW. However, if India do end up beating NZ, they would have equal away results IMHO.

Home
Pak - Wins against NZ (whitewash), England, SL and Aus. But 2 draws against WI and India. The draw against India is huge -ve IMHO. Given the superiority of WI, the draw against WI is somewhat acceptable. Their W/L ratio here is 4.0, but huge negative for not winning series against India and some -ve points for 2 draws against WI.

India - This is not even a competition. the W/L ratio is 22. The only 1 test loss came against Aus. India also won every single series.

India clearly wins by a huge margin.

So, between these 2 teams, Pak (86-90) are slightly better than India away. But India are way better than Pak at home.

So, clearly this is the greatest asian team.

Its not in the league of WI of 80s and Aus of 90s-00s. If they can find a way to win in SENA, and keep massacring teams at home, they will become the greatest team ever.

 

[Swashbuckler]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] India doesn't have to wait till 2026 to prove that. If the team does well in the next cycle of SENA tours they will make a strong case. One of the most dominant home sides ever, in the last 6 years 30-1 at home (4 draws, 2 because of rain) and counting and every series won. Dominant in Sri Lanka, West Indies, series win in Australia, amazing W-L ratio, ICC mace 4 years in a row. Sure Kohli needs to win in NZ, SA, Eng especially Eng which has become a mental block for us.

The logic of series draws can't be applied here, those days many matches ended in draws because of abysmal over rates. Hell even India which was a poor traveling side (sans world class quicks) enjoyed many draws in that era because they were effectively playing 4 day cricket, sometimes 3-3.5 with a bit of rain. Then add other factors like frequency of overseas assignments, lack of warm ups, packed schedule, importance of multiple formats etc. Even accounting for all that you can't make overseas unbeaten streak the be all, end all. Aussies lost 4 series in India between 1995 and 2008, once in England. But South Africans had an unbeaten overseas run betwen 2006 Lanka and 2015 India. Only a lunatic will rate Smith's side in the same ball park as the legendary Aussie side. Home record, W-L, dominance in victories, brand of cricket, number of wins all matter when you make comparisons.

Not playing down Imran or PCT of 80s, but we need to be fair. Can't have unrealistic standards for modern era players because of nostalgia reasons.

 

[Swashbuckler]

* sorry 1996-2008 in India, '96, '98, '01, '08
'05 Ashes

 

[andy0204]

* sorry 1996-2008 in India, '96, '98, '01, '08
'05 Ashes

Sorry till 2007 I consider Australia as a great team when McWarne were there,Srilanka gave them a fight in one match at their home while chasing even though Srilanka lost that match,India would have defeated them at their home if not for umpiring.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Sorry till 2007 I consider Australia as a great team when McWarne were there,Srilanka gave them a fight in one match at their home while chasing even though Srilanka lost that match,India would have defeated them at their home if not for umpiring.

Aussies were #1 till mid-2009, in 2008 they still had many legends. I consider 2008 as the last year of their ATG reign, SA under Smith beat them in their backyard in January 2009 and took the crown. India became #1 before SA but it was SA which dethroned the Aussies by ending their home dominance.

 

[Ab Fan]

Honestly, I don't think this Indian team is even the greatest Indian test team ever. It maybe the best Indian bowling attack but not the best Indian side.

You simply think of how many current players would walk into Indian all time XI??

Gavaskar (70s,80s)
Sehwag(00s)
Dravid(00s)
Tendulkar (90s,00s)
Kohli(10s)
Kapil(mid 70s,80s)
Dhoni(00s)
Kumble(00s)
Shami
Zaheer(00s)
Bumrah

6 players from 2004-11 would walk into Indian all-time XI while only 3 would walk from present. This tells us more about the greatest Indian test team ever than any other stats.

 

[Junaids]

So Imran Khan's GOAT Asian Test team holds that title because from the time Imran Khan returned from his shin fractures, they lost ONE SERIES, by a margin of 1-0, in a period of 8 years.

India of course lost 4-1 in England in August 2018, and 2-1 to South Africa in January 2018.

So the equation is simple.

1. If India wins the Second Test v New Zealand next week, and draws the series 1-1, they can catch up with Imran Khan's GOAT Asian team in January 2016 if they avoid losing any mores series in the next 6 years.

2. If they lose the Second Test, or even draw it, then they cannot match Imran's team's record as GOAT Asian team before August 2026.

Either way, the Imran Khan team of 1985-1992 is safely secure as the GOAT Asian Test team for at least another 6 years from now.

 

[Slog]

Honestly, I don't think this Indian team is even the greatest Indian test team ever. It maybe the best Indian bowling attack but not the best Indian side.

You simply think of how many current players would walk into Indian all time XI??

Gavaskar (70s,80s)
Sehwag(00s)
Dravid(00s)
Tendulkar (90s,00s)
Kohli(10s)
Kapil(mid 70s,80s)
Dhoni(00s)
Kumble(00s)
Shami
Zaheer(00s)
Bumrah

6 players from 2004-11 would walk into Indian all-time XI while only 3 would walk from present. This tells us more about the greatest Indian test team ever than any other stats.

1. An indian All time eleven will definitely have more than one spinner. The trio/quartet in the 70s or so have a shout. Besides Kapil was good enough for India as a fast bowler only so even with 2 spinners you have 3 pacers.

2. Don’t think Shami makes it even if you have current composition. Srinath oerhaps

 

[tyron_woodley]

india needs to draw vs n.z
india needs to draw or beat Aussies in australia again
India need to win away in England as well.


if these 2 objectives are achieved then they are the GOAT team of all time.

imran khan's team is not a benchmark for Asian teams anyway. It's india of 2007-2011.

Kohli if he continues to dominate at home and win away in England or draw/win in australia then his indian team will no doubt be the best team of all time.

 

[khan_aa]

india needs to draw vs n.z
india needs to draw or beat Aussies in australia again
India need to win away in England as well.


if these 2 objectives are achieved then they are the GOAT team of all time.

imran khan's team is not a benchmark for Asian teams anyway. It's india of 2007-2011.

Kohli if he continues to dominate at home and win away in England or draw/win in australia then his indian team will no doubt be the best team of all time.

nope, imrans team of 1985-1992 is.

thanks

 

[tyron_woodley]

nope, imrans team of 1985-1992 is.

thanks

No thanks. 14 wins is not good enough.

 

[happydavy]

No thanks. 14 wins is not good enough.

And just 3 or 4 of them overseas. I have often called Indian fans "delusional" who think India is no:1 test team, they only get trumped by those Pakistani fans who think Pakistan under Imran accomplished a lot. He was an out and out draw specialist who is single handed responsible for making cricket in Pakistan boring by getting those roads made to not loose.

 

[tyron_woodley]

And just 3 or 4 of them overseas. I have often called Indian fans "delusional" who think India is no:1 test team, they only get trumped by those Pakistani fans who think Pakistan under Imran accomplished a lot. He was an out and out draw specialist who is single handed responsible for making cricket in Pakistan boring by getting those roads made to not loose.

look man. pakistan under imran was a great team. imran is a GOAT level player. But they are not the best from Asia. However I would back them, Virat's india and 2006-2011 india to smash any GOAT level team at home. That's for sure.

It's away that's a concern. India need to prove themselves in n.z and England.

hell Misbah's team would smash most teams at home.

india have the advantage because they won in australia. Doesn't matter if they missed players. India have travelled many times and faced a much weaker Australian side and still lost in the past. So a win is a win.

 

[Bigboii]

look man. pakistan under imran was a great team. imran is a GOAT level player. But they are not the best from Asia. However I would back them, Virat's india and 2006-2011 india to smash any GOAT level team at home. That's for sure.

It's away that's a concern. India need to prove themselves in n.z and England.

hell Misbah's team would smash most teams at home.

india have the advantage because they won in australia. Doesn't matter if they missed players. India have travelled many times and faced a much weaker Australian side and still lost in the past. So a win is a win.

Who is the GOAT Asian team than? Who can go to most places and beat em

 

[Junaids]

look man. pakistan under imran was a great team. imran is a GOAT level player. But they are not the best from Asia. However I would back them, Virat's india and 2006-2011 india to smash any GOAT level team at home. That's for sure.

It's away that's a concern. India need to prove themselves in n.z and England.

hell Misbah's team would smash most teams at home.

india have the advantage because they won in australia. Doesn't matter if they missed players. India have travelled many times and faced a much weaker Australian side and still lost in the past. So a win is a win.

I've started a different thread where you can discuss whether Home wins with Away defeats outrank a mix of Wins and draws with hardly any defeats.

 

[khan_aa]

No thanks. 14 wins is not good enough.

sure your opinion.

doesnt mean its correct.

please compare imran, javed, wasim, qadir and waqar - who are either legends or really great players to your indian team composition. kohli yes, pujara maybe and bumrah maybe - the rest arent that great in test cricket.

sachin, dravid and laxman were the other greats but test teams will only win if they have good bowling. ganguly was never a good test player and sehwag is up there but certainly not a legend. the only matchwinning bowler in that era was kumble.

That pakistani team of 85-91 is comparable to WI of 80s and Aus of 2000s. imran averaged 50 with bat and 20 with the ball...

India is nowhere to be found because with the exception of anil kumble, you guys have never had any matchwinning fast bowlers. Burmah is a good bowler, but is not there yet. he has a lot more to prove and needs a longer time span.

so, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. it shows bias and low-level intelligence, not fit for a mature discussion.

thanks.

 

[khan_aa]

I've started a different thread where you can discuss whether Home wins with Away defeats outrank a mix of Wins and draws with hardly any defeats.

yes, exactly.

draw >>> loss

 

[happydavy]

yes, exactly.

draw >>> loss

True only if a team keeps draw as option b, win as option A and loss as last option. With Imran it was mostly draw as option A. Against a fairly ordinary Indian side, he got roads built for a home series. So much so that Sanjay manjrekar ended up scoring 600 runs.

 

[Buffet]

True only if a team keeps draw as option b, win as option A and loss as last option. With Imran it was mostly draw as option A. Against a fairly ordinary Indian side, he got roads built for a home series. So much so that Sanjay manjrekar ended up scoring 600 runs.

Was it 89 series with 4 tests ending 0-0? Just going by memories here. I knew that Majrekar had a good series, but didn't think that he scored over 600 runs.

 

[khan_aa]

True only if a team keeps draw as option b, win as option A and loss as last option. With Imran it was mostly draw as option A. Against a fairly ordinary Indian side, he got roads built for a home series. So much so that Sanjay manjrekar ended up scoring 600 runs.

if jill had balls, she would be jack...

if, maybe, then, so ... all those conditions do not make a difference. Imran's team wasnt the only one playing. India could have forced the issue and try to win also...

 

[Buffet]

That pakistani team of 85-91 is comparable to WI of 80s and Aus of 2000s.

Pakistan's peak rating applied with same formual as current formula by ICC was 110-111 points.

In most era , a team maintaining 110 points as peak rating will go down as 2nd or 3rd best side in their own era and I am not sure where they will stand in entire history, but certainly not near the top.

In entire history, Only three teams - Aus,SA and WI - crossed 130+ points. Followed by India at 130 and Eng at 125 points.

Peak rating is not everything, but 110 peak rating is simply too low to have IK's team getting clubbed with Aus and WI. I don't think any other team deserve to be clubbed with them. SA came closest, but still below those two great teams. Consistency of rating matters more than peak, but 110 is too low even if you maintain it for a long time.

 

[tyron_woodley]

sure your opinion.

doesnt mean its correct.

please compare imran, javed, wasim, qadir and waqar - who are either legends or really great players to your indian team composition. kohli yes, pujara maybe and bumrah maybe - the rest arent that great in test cricket.

sachin, dravid and laxman were the other greats but test teams will only win if they have good bowling. ganguly was never a good test player and sehwag is up there but certainly not a legend. the only matchwinning bowler in that era was kumble.

That pakistani team of 85-91 is comparable to WI of 80s and Aus of 2000s. imran averaged 50 with bat and 20 with the ball...

India is nowhere to be found because with the exception of anil kumble, you guys have never had any matchwinning fast bowlers. Burmah is a good bowler, but is not there yet. he has a lot more to prove and needs a longer time span.

so, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. it shows bias and low-level intelligence, not fit for a mature discussion.

thanks.

uhm ganguly's india had the best record away from india. They are the GOAT Asian team by far. kohli just needs a win in England away and a draw or win again vs australia to cement his status as one of the greatest teams ever.

ganguly's india from 2006-2011 was a gun team. Far better than any Asian side. Beat australia, narrow loss in a rigged series away, beat pakistan away, drew twice with GOAT Smith's side, beat n.z away, beat England away.

 

[tyron_woodley]

yes, exactly.

draw >>> loss

draw is not good enough. Nowadays we have result oriented pitches unlike the past.

 

[Junaids]

uhm ganguly's india had the best record away from india. They are the GOAT Asian team by far. kohli just needs a win in England away and a draw or win again vs australia to cement his status as one of the greatest teams ever.

ganguly's india from 2006-2011 was a gun team. Far better than any Asian side. Beat australia, narrow loss in a rigged series away, beat pakistan away, drew twice with GOAT Smith's side, beat n.z away, beat England away.

You’ve touched on the problem, I’m afraid.

As far as those of us from western countries are concerned, your legacy as a Test team depends entirely on being unbeaten. You can get away with a single narrow series defeat, but basically your era and your legacy terminates when you lose a Test series - that’s why we remember the West Indies losing one 1995, Australia losing to Laxman and Dravid and again in the 2005 Ashes.

All the Indian teams that you have nominated are disqualified by Test series defeats.

As for the snide comment about India’s 2007-08 defeat in Australia, well really you are showing that history is repeating itself.

They got lucky in 2003-04 (and 2018-19) by touring Australia when their best players were unavailable.

And India then over-estimated their own quality and prospects next time, failed to prepare properly, and when they collapsed in comical fashion blamed the umpires, the opposition and everyone except themselves.

You think that the 2007-08 Indians were robbed in Australia. I’m an Englishman in Australia, so no fan of the Aussies, but from where I stand those Indian tourists were overconfident, were soundly and deservedly beaten, and behaved terribly because they couldn’t handle their own inadequacies being exposed.

 

[Geil]

This current Indian test team lead by virat KOHLI is by far over rated and this is proven by the fact how India played in this first test against New Zealand and the way Indian Batsmen struggled I do not see this Indian side becoming a great Asian team or Best of all time test team,they only have Australia series win in their achievements and one achievement does not make you an all time great Asian or even an all time Indian team,Even Sri Lanka white washed South Africa in south Africa but no one debates about them being even an all time great Sri Lankan test team.One series win away does not make you even an all time best Indian test side.This Indian test team is good and maybe in the top 3 position of this current era right now but ranking them all time best with past Indian or Asian test team is hugely over rated,yes you can debate it but saying it is.OVER RATED.All time best teams does not play so poorly like they did in the first test in New Zealand

 

[khan_aa]

uhm ganguly's india had the best record away from india. They are the GOAT Asian team by far. kohli just needs a win in England away and a draw or win again vs australia to cement his status as one of the greatest teams ever.

ganguly's india from 2006-2011 was a gun team. Far better than any Asian side. Beat australia, narrow loss in a rigged series away, beat pakistan away, drew twice with GOAT Smith's side, beat n.z away, beat England away.

If these useless points are the basis of your argument, then misbah's team is the greatest ever because they reached # 1 while neither playing at home OR away.

please just stop.

It is this arrogance that caused you to lose CT2017 final and then the WC SF to NZ. Please remain humble, and appreciate your team which is good, but not the greatest...

when i see bowlers like holder, marshall, roberts or mcgrath, warne, (kasprowicz, gillespe and fleming as second change) come out of india, then we will revisit this discussion..

 

[khan_aa]

This current Indian test team lead by virat KOHLI is by far over rated and this is proven by the fact how India played in this first test against New Zealand and the way Indian Batsmen struggled I do not see this Indian side becoming a great Asian team or Best of all time test team,they only have Australia series win in their achievements and one achievement does not make you an all time great Asian or even an all time Indian team,Even Sri Lanka white washed South Africa in south Africa but no one debates about them being even an all time great Sri Lankan test team.One series win away does not make you even an all time best Indian test side.This Indian test team is good and maybe in the top 3 position of this current era right now but ranking them all time best with past Indian or Asian test team is hugely over rated,yes you can debate it but saying it is.OVER RATED.All time best teams does not play so poorly like they did in the first test in New Zealand

they only have pujara and kohli that are quality...maybe mayank agarwal...

the rest are pretty ordinary

 

[tyron_woodley]

If these useless points are the basis of your argument, then misbah's team is the greatest ever because they reached # 1 while neither playing at home OR away.

please just stop.

It is this arrogance that caused you to lose CT2017 final and then the WC SF to NZ. Please remain humble, and appreciate your team which is good, but not the greatest...

when i see bowlers like holder, marshall, roberts or mcgrath, warne, (kasprowicz, gillespe and fleming as second change) come out of india, then we will revisit this discussion..

imran's team is not the greatest Asian team. Draws does not make the great. Ganguly's team had a better away record and only lost one series at home. Not to mention they never could beat australia. Beat a weakened England and India who were minnows at the time.

You can keep parading your imran's team whilst the world knows that ganguly's india is the best Asian team by far.

 

[tyron_woodley]

You’ve touched on the problem, I’m afraid.

As far as those of us from western countries are concerned, your legacy as a Test team depends entirely on being unbeaten. You can get away with a single narrow series defeat, but basically your era and your legacy terminates when you lose a Test series - that’s why we remember the West Indies losing one 1995, Australia losing to Laxman and Dravid and again in the 2005 Ashes.

All the Indian teams that you have nominated are disqualified by Test series defeats.

As for the snide comment about India’s 2007-08 defeat in Australia, well really you are showing that history is repeating itself.

They got lucky in 2003-04 (and 2018-19) by touring Australia when their best players were unavailable.

And India then over-estimated their own quality and prospects next time, failed to prepare properly, and when they collapsed in comical fashion blamed the umpires, the opposition and everyone except themselves.

You think that the 2007-08 Indians were robbed in Australia. I’m an Englishman in Australia, so no fan of the Aussies, but from where I stand those Indian tourists were overconfident, were soundly and deservedly beaten, and behaved terribly because they couldn’t handle their own inadequacies being exposed.

Again you fail to see the point. Imran played in an era where lot of games ended in draws due to the nature of the pitches and rules.

New era demands result oriented pitches. Hence losses are invariable. India have won a ridiculous amount of games overall.

Not to mention they play far more games in modern era.

So you are telling me australia dint rig that series vs india? are you series. 11 decisions went against india. India definitely deserves to win that series of it weren't for incompetent pathetic referring.

Not the first time they have cheated either. Sandpaper is proof.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Again you fail to see the point. Imran played in an era where lot of games ended in draws due to the nature of the pitches and rules.

New era demands result oriented pitches. Hence losses are invariable. India have won a ridiculous amount of games overall.

Not to mention they play far more games in modern era.

So you are telling me australia dint rig that series vs india? are you series. 11 decisions went against india. India definitely deserves to win that series of it weren't for incompetent pathetic referring.

Not the first time they have cheated either. Sandpaper is proof.

losses are inevtiable*.

 

[Ab Fan]

Again you fail to see the point. Imran played in an era where lot of games ended in draws due to the nature of the pitches and rules.

New era demands result oriented pitches. Hence losses are invariable. India have won a ridiculous amount of games overall.

Not to mention they play far more games in modern era.

So you are telling me australia dint rig that series vs india? are you series. 11 decisions went against india. India definitely deserves to win that series of it weren't for incompetent pathetic referring.

Not the first time they have cheated either. Sandpaper is proof.

Who you are trying to convince to?

 

[Ab Fan]

Again you fail to see the point. Imran played in an era where lot of games ended in draws due to the nature of the pitches and rules.

New era demands result oriented pitches. Hence losses are invariable. India have won a ridiculous amount of games overall.

Not to mention they play far more games in modern era.

So you are telling me australia dint rig that series vs india? are you series. 11 decisions went against india. India definitely deserves to win that series of it weren't for incompetent pathetic referring.

Not the first time they have cheated either. Sandpaper is proof.

We all know how much Australians changed their behaviour towards Indians post IPL. That Sydney test lol, there was no way India would have gone to lose that series. The only way Australia would be by selling up their souls which is exactly what they did in that test match. Punter showed the world how classless and arrogant their team's legacy is particularly with no McGrath and Warne.

 

[Junaids]

Again you fail to see the point. Imran played in an era where lot of games ended in draws due to the nature of the pitches and rules.

New era demands result oriented pitches. Hence losses are invariable. India have won a ridiculous amount of games overall.

Not to mention they play far more games in modern era.

So you are telling me australia dint rig that series vs india? are you series. 11 decisions went against india. India definitely deserves to win that series of it weren't for incompetent pathetic referring.

Not the first time they have cheated either. Sandpaper is proof.

With respect, pitches are LESS result orientated today than before - in SENA there is less grass.

All that has changed is that batsmen corrupted by white ball cricket don’t know how to bat.

Even Kane Williamson plays these insane shots outside off-stump. If he had played with this technique 30 years ago he’d have averaged 25.

 

[tyron_woodley]

With respect, pitches are LESS result orientated today than before - in SENA there is less grass.

All that has changed is that batsmen corrupted by white ball cricket don’t know how to bat.

Even Kane Williamson plays these insane shots outside off-stump. If he had played with this technique 30 years ago he’d have averaged 25.

true. Too much bakwas t20 and odi games.

 

[Mesozoic]

Who you are trying to convince to?

There's no point in arguing with people who've no intentions of letting go of their bias.

There's no way Australia would have won that series if umpiring was fair. There were like 7 or 8 decisons went against us in crucial moments. I feel so bad for that team , they deserved a series win in Australia. Truely the GOAT Asian test team. Anyone who says otherwise is either delusional or has a strong bias against the Indian team.

 

[Mesozoic]

Series win in England.

Series win in New zealand.

Hard fought 1-1 draw against an ATG South Africa in SAF.

Going toe to toe with the GOAT Australian team in Aus only to be robbed off a series win by poor umpiring.

Going unbeaten at home for 7 years.

GOAT Asian Team.

Imran's and Kohli's teams on par at 2nd place.

 

[andy0204]

We all know how much Australians changed their behaviour towards Indians post IPL. That Sydney test lol, there was no way India would have gone to lose that series. The only way Australia would be by selling up their souls which is exactly what they did in that test match. Punter showed the world how classless and arrogant their team's legacy is particularly with no McGrath and Warne.

I agree with you we were robbed in Sydney test but thanks to same umpires who let India winning in 2007 England series so it works on both sides.

 

[Aman]

Kohli's India already toppled Imran's Pakistan long ago.

I read Imran had won 8 Tests across his run lmao. That's laughable compared to most teams today.

He has one marquee series win and that appears to be that. Greatness requires more far consistency.

 

[Aman]

india needs to draw vs n.z
india needs to draw or beat Aussies in australia again
India need to win away in England as well.


if these 2 objectives are achieved then they are the GOAT team of all time.

imran khan's team is not a benchmark for Asian teams anyway. It's india of 2007-2011.

Kohli if he continues to dominate at home and win away in England or draw/win in australia then his indian team will no doubt be the best team of all time.

India will never be the GOAT Test team.

Aus are so far ahead it isn't funny.

 

[tyron_woodley]

India will never be the GOAT Test team.

Aus are so far ahead it isn't funny.

yes they are also ahead at being cheaters. Played and dominated in an era without drs, no ball umpires and biased umpires.

You can call them great but to me only west indies of the olden days are the true great tea.

I would rate Smith's saffers over Aussies. 51 wins 30 losses and 20 draws.

 

[Mesozoic]

I agree with you we were robbed in Sydney test but thanks to same umpires who let India winning in 2007 England series so it works on both sides.

It's not even comparable.

We had one decision that go in our favour at the Lords test in 2007. Even if we hadn't got that, series would have been draw.

But what happened at the SCG was daylight robbery. More than half a dozen glaring errors at the most crucial junctures of the game. Plumb lbws, clear caught behinds, catches which were grassed but not even referred to the TV umpire and on and on and on. We would have won the series that we eventually lost.

I'd (most of the fans , players too) take a win in Australia and a draw in England any day a week over a win in England and a loss in Australia.

 

[Mamoon]

I agree, because they toppled them in April 2016.

 

[Junaids]

uhm ganguly's india had the best record away from india. They are the GOAT Asian team by far. kohli just needs a win in England away and a draw or win again vs australia to cement his status as one of the greatest teams ever.

ganguly's india from 2006-2011 was a gun team. Far better than any Asian side. Beat australia, narrow loss in a rigged series away, beat pakistan away, drew twice with GOAT Smith's side, beat n.z away, beat England away.

There's no point in arguing with people who've no intentions of letting go of their bias.

There's no way Australia would have won that series if umpiring was fair. There were like 7 or 8 decisons went against us in crucial moments. I feel so bad for that team , they deserved a series win in Australia. Truely the GOAT Asian test team. Anyone who says otherwise is either delusional or has a strong bias against the Indian team.

Why do India fans still not understand what happened at Sydney?

The reality is that India made exactly the same error that Pakistan made at Bridgetown in 1988.

The challenger got some unfavourable decisions against the champion and instead of staying calm they panicked and lost.

That’s part of being the challenger. Part of being a challenger that is not mentally tough enough to hold its nerve and win.

Kohli's India already toppled Imran's Pakistan long ago.

I read Imran had won 8 Tests across his run lmao. That's laughable compared to most teams today.

He has one marquee series win and that appears to be that. Greatness requires more far consistency.

Home and away against the four strongest teams in Test series:

Kohli’s India: Played 8 series, Won 5, Lost 3.

Pakistan 85-92: Played 9 series, Won 4, Drew 4, Lost 1.

Consider the 1986-87 series that Pakistan won 1-0 in India with 4 draws.

Nobody says “they drew too matches”. History just records that they won a tough away series against a full-strength opponent.

 

[Ab Fan]

I agree with you we were robbed in Sydney test but thanks to same umpires who let India winning in 2007 England series so it works on both sides.

What are you comparing with?

1 bad decision is a part of your profession. When you give 7-8 such decisions in favour of home team then that is daylight robbery. That was the day when CA got to know the power of BCCI and Indian cricket as they forced the poor Australian board to stop this nonsense out or else they will leave the series half way. It was a message sent in form of tight slap to CA and India eventually got their revenge back in Perth test.

Since then, Australian team no longer possess the aggression and arrogance. IPL happened next year and now they run for Indian money.

 

[Mesozoic]

The challenger got some unfavourable decisions against the champion and instead of staying calm they panicked and lost.

That’s part of being the challenger. Part of being a challenger that is not mentally tough enough to hold its nerve and win.

You've got to be kidding me.

So it's okay to give 7-8 unfavorable decisions to the "challenger" just because you're the "champion" and it's all challenger's fault that they couldn't cope with all the wrong decisions given against them and lost.

Dear lord!

 

[Junaids]

You've got to be kidding me.

So it's okay to give 7-8 unfavorable decisions to the "challenger" just because you're the "champion" and it's all challenger's fault that they couldn't cope with all the wrong decisions given against them and lost.

Dear lord!

I’m not defending it. I’m saying that in most sports - notably boxing - the reigning champion tends to profit from the referees/umpires giving calls in their favour.

The same thing happened to Australia in the West Indies in 1995 but also previously when they hosted them in 92-93.

The 92-93 Aussies were within 2 runs of taking an unbeatable 2-0 lead, but lost to a very dodgy caught behind decision. With the series level at 1-1 they lost the Final Test in 2 days and 1 session.

The 1995 Aussies were much tougher and did not lose their nerve.

This is why I judge a Test team by how it responds to adversity and whether they can avoid defeat. For all India’s good work in the 2007-08 series, their weak underbelly was on full display in the Sydney Test, when they snatched defeat from the jaws of a draw with a comically cowardly and incompetent response to a Michael Clarke over.

They didn’t fail because of the umpiring. They failed at Sydney in 2008 because when the moment of pressure came, equivalent to Pakistan being 341-9 at Port of Spain in 1988 with five balls to go, India were too weak and gutless to survive the pressure.

Only Indians view Sydney 2008 as a match of daylight robbery. The rest of us just remember an over-arrogant team which fell apart as soon as it was placed under pressure. And fell apart so absolutely that they couldn’t even survive against the bowling of Michael Clarke. And then had a tantrum and threatened to go home to distract their public from seeing their failings.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I’m not defending it. I’m saying that in most sports - notably boxing - the reigning champion tends to profit from the referees/umpires giving calls in their favour.

The same thing happened to Australia in the West Indies in 1995 but also previously when they hosted them in 92-93.

The 92-93 Aussies were within 2 runs of taking an unbeatable 2-0 lead, but lost to a very dodgy caught behind decision. With the series level at 1-1 they lost the Final Test in 2 days and 1 session.

The 1995 Aussies were much tougher and did not lose their nerve.

This is why I judge a Test team by how it responds to adversity and whether they can avoid defeat. For all India’s good work in the 2007-08 series, their weak underbelly was on full display in the Sydney Test, when they snatched defeat from the jaws of a draw with a comically cowardly and incompetent response to a Michael Clarke over.

They didn’t fail because of the umpiring. They failed at Sydney in 2008 because when the moment of pressure came, equivalent to Pakistan being 341-9 at Port of Spain in 1988 with five balls to go, India were too weak and gutless to survive the pressure.

Only Indians view Sydney 2008 as a match of daylight robbery. The rest of us just remember an over-arrogant team which fell apart as soon as it was placed under pressure. And fell apart so absolutely that they couldn’t even survive against the bowling of Michael Clarke. And then had a tantrum and threatened to go home to distract their public from seeing their failings.

symmonds was out on 10. scored 100 plus. Australia cheated in that series. Whole world knows. They can have their victory but we all know their true colours. Sand paper gate is proof. Thats why I disregard all their achievements between 2000-2008. Only true great is the West Indies of 80s.

11 decisions went in favour of australia. caught behinds, grasses catches, lbw plums, hell no ball's were incorrectly given in favour australia.

 

[Mesozoic]

symmonds was out on 10. scored 100 plus. Australia cheated in that series. Whole world knows. They can have their victory but we all know their true colours. Sand paper gate is proof. Thats why I disregard all their achievements between 2000-2008. Only true great is the West Indies of 80s.

11 decisions went in favour of australia. caught behinds, grasses catches, lbw plums, hell no ball's were incorrectly given in favour australia.

"Stupidity and unconscious bias often work more damage than venality".

- the great Bertrand Russell

 

[Junaids]

symmonds was out on 10. scored 100 plus. Australia cheated in that series. Whole world knows. They can have their victory but we all know their true colours. Sand paper gate is proof. Thats why I disregard all their achievements between 2000-2008. Only true great is the West Indies of 80s.

11 decisions went in favour of australia. caught behinds, grasses catches, lbw plums, hell no ball's were incorrectly given in favour australia.

They were neutral umpires. Not Australian.

 

[Dulex9]

I just feel this thread is to rile, provoke Indian fans and undermine some of India's feats.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Yea let's just keep taking the champion mma fighter out of a tricky situation to give him extra rest because he may lose lol. Oh he finds himself in a guillotine choke with the challenger on his back? Let's separate them as nothing is bound to happen because the champ can defend that move all day despite being visibly exhausted.

Oh wait? Let's just let the champ knock the opponent out by giving him peds in the final round because he is after all the champ. Even banned substances should be accessible to champs because blatant cheating to let the more popular fighter win is completely fine for the business.

 

[Junaids]

I just feel this thread is to rile, provoke Indian fans and undermine some of India's feats.

Ken Norton beat Mohammad Ali when he had a broken jaw. Ali then won two rematches.

Indian fans read a lot into India beating a weakened Australia straight after Pakistan did. But then they went overboard and started to claim to have one of the greatest ever teams.

But whereas Imran’s Pakistan didn’t even lose one of three series against the GOAT West Indies, Kohli’s India keeps losing Test series.

Imran lost 1 series in 7 years as skipper after his return to cricket in 1985.

Kohli is about to lose his 3rd series since January 2018. And all the defeats are identical: the quick bowlers bowl too short and the batsmen get out playing aggressive shots when they should have left the ball. India haven’t improved at all these last two years, they keep making the same mistakes.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Ken Norton beat Mohammad Ali when he had a broken jaw. Ali then won two rematches.

Indian fans read a lot into India beating a weakened Australia straight after Pakistan did. But then they went overboard and started to claim to have one of the greatest ever teams.

But whereas Imran’s Pakistan didn’t even lose one of three series against the GOAT West Indies, Kohli’s India keeps losing Test series.

Imran lost 1 series in 7 years as skipper after his return to cricket in 1985.

Kohli is about to lose his 3rd series since January 2018. And all the defeats are identical: the quick bowlers bowl too short and the batsmen get out playing aggressive shots when they should have left the ball. India haven’t improved at all these last two years, they keep making the same mistakes.

imran couldn't win either. You need to win. And no imran's team isn't the greatest. Never was and never will be.

In a result oriented era draws are not the norm.