India chases down 350 in 48 overs - Pakistan chases down 220 in 47 overs, the gulf between two sides

[waleed88]

Not considering pitches and conditions, is this the gulf that exists between the two sides.. if this is the case than it is just horrifying to think how far we are off

that we cannot play an ODI liked it is played today, we are just about 20 years off from modern cricket

 

[Bilal7]

Pakistan concedes 220 against Australia in Australia. India concedes 350 against England in India. The gulf between the two sides. Putting conditions to one side, India should be horrified at how far off they are.

Easily the worst thread I've seen in a while.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Mental block in Australia but I don't really care how long it took us to chase it. What matters is we did. Also this is why we need to get rid of Azhar and Asad from ODIs and give Akmal a solid run in the top 4. Without Malik's knock near the end we would've been in a spot of bother. We never really looked like losing the game. Also the difference in target. India had to be explosive from the get go while we knew that if we take it to the end we will win. Also we played against a much better bowling attack on a wicket that was flat but not as flat as the one India played on. The ground was much bigger as well especially square of the wicket. All in all a poor thread.

 

[Hawkeye]

Pakistan concedes 220 against Australia in Australia. India concedes 350 against England in India. The gulf between the two sides. Putting conditions to one side, India should be horrified at how far off they are.

Easily the worst thread I've seen in a while.

Good post, one of the few sane good ones.

Can you first ask Ind to do what Pak bowling did? They DID NOT have to chase 350, so why should they play like they're chasing 350 AND score 220 in 35 overs!

But yeah Pak batting isn't good enough to consistently chase 3t0

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Pakistan concedes 220 against Australia in Australia. India concedes 350 against England in India. The gulf between the two sides. Putting conditions to one side, India should be horrified at how far off they are.

Easily the worst thread I've seen in a while.

Good point

 

[Statsman]

Not a very logical thread brother. Two matches played in 2 different conditions. Also England's team is batsman heavy and okish in the bowling department. So easier for them to hit big and also to concede runs.

 

[aloo paratha]

Why would Pakistan try to chase it in 35 overs when they have 50 to do so?? Better safe then sorry. Plus, we didn't have Sarfraz, rather a very poor Shafiq.

 

[Syed1]

Our bowlers also dismissed a better batting line up inside 50 overs for 220.

Seriously the Aussie line up has Warner, Khawaja, Smith, Maxwell and good contributors like Head, Marsh and Wade.

Man for man each of the Aussies bats is better than their English counterparts. There is also the small matter of the Aussies being the reigning world champions number one ranked side and playing in their own den.


Illogical thread is illogical.

 

[Hasan123]

It's different conditions,a different match situation, and also we were facing a better bowling attack than India , also the attack we were facing had the advantage of knowing the conditions.

Try again

 

[Sadevdesai]

Only real way to decide who is a better side, is if they play each other !!!!!

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yes, the conditions are not the same so you can't directly compare it statistically.

But you can still compare the performances.

Pakistan got Aus to a super low total on a not so easy pitch to bat. Good job. Pak bowlers were indeed amazing while Indian bowlers bowled trash on an admittedly tougher track (just cos its in India doesn't make it easier - it was a patta).

What happened next was, it took Pakistan all its energy and mental strength to overhaul this score.

So in other words, Pakistan bowling and batting had to function at its VERY BEST to beat Aus when they performed at their worst. And India inspite of performing horribly with the ball and with majority of its batsmen flunking, managed to overhaul a record total.

Now I am not saying this to turn it into an India - Pakistan fight but people who are having a go at OP as if he is making no sense need to look at the larger picture.

We don't have to compare Pakistan and India batting and make the same cliched responses but what we need to do is understand that the way Pakistan won the last game helps it go nowhere in the modern ODI world. The batting lineup has to be shuffled...slow coaches dropped and newcomers added.

Even in a win, there are hardly any positives to take from the batting. That's OP's concern. Maybe he could have worded it better but he sure is making a good point.

 

[HitWicket]

Seriously the Aussie line up has Warner, Khawaja, Smith, Maxwell and good contributors like Head, Marsh and Wade.

Man for man each of the Aussies bats is better than their English counterparts.

Where are you pulling that from?

Khawaja < Roy
Warner > Hales
Smith < Root
Marsh = Morgan
Head < Stokes
Maxwell < Buttler
Wade = Moeen
Faulkner > Woakes
Starc > Willey
Cummins < Rashid
Hazlewood < Ball

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yes, the conditions are not the same so you can't directly compare it statistically.

But you can still compare the performances.

Pakistan got Aus to a super low total on a not so easy pitch to bat. Good job. Pak bowlers were indeed amazing while Indian bowlers bowled trash on an admittedly tougher track (just cos its in India doesn't make it easier - it was a patta).

What happened next was, it took Pakistan all its energy and mental strength to overhaul this score.

So in other words, Pakistan bowling and batting had to function at its VERY BEST to beat Aus when they performed at their worst. And India inspite of performing horribly with the ball and with majority of its batsmen flunking, managed to overhaul a record total.

Now I am not saying this to turn it into an India - Pakistan fight but people who are having a go at OP as if he is making no sense need to look at the larger picture.

We don't have to compare Pakistan and India batting and make the same cliched responses but what we need to do is understand that the way Pakistan won the last game helps it go nowhere in the modern ODI world. The batting lineup has to be shuffled...slow coaches dropped and newcomers added.

Even in a win, there are hardly any positives to take from the batting. That's OP's concern. Maybe he could have worded it better but he sure is making a good point.

Also not saying Pakistan has to chase this total down in 35 overs.

That's unreasonable on that pitch but a better approach was needed. To take it to the very end to win it doesn't help Pakistan much.

 

[QalandarFan]

Pakistan concedes 220 against Australia in Australia. India concedes 350 against England in India. The gulf between the two sides. Putting conditions to one side, India should be horrified at how far off they are.

Easily the worst thread I've seen in a while.

This is exactly what I was gonna post horrible thread!

 

[Syed1]

Yes, the conditions are not the same so you can't directly compare it statistically.

But you can still compare the performances.

Pakistan got Aus to a super low total on a not so easy pitch to bat. Good job. Pak bowlers were indeed amazing while Indian bowlers bowled trash on an admittedly tougher track (just cos its in India doesn't make it easier - it was a patta).

What happened next was, it took Pakistan all its energy and mental strength to overhaul this score.

So in other words, Pakistan bowling and batting had to function at its VERY BEST to beat Aus when they performed at their worst. And India inspite of performing horribly with the ball and with majority of its batsmen flunking, managed to overhaul a record total.

Now I am not saying this to turn it into an India - Pakistan fight but people who are having a go at OP as if he is making no sense need to look at the larger picture.

We don't have to compare Pakistan and India batting and make the same cliched responses but what we need to do is understand that the way Pakistan won the last game helps it go nowhere in the modern ODI world. The batting lineup has to be shuffled...slow coaches dropped and newcomers added.

Even in a win, there are hardly any positives to take from the batting. That's OP's concern. Maybe he could have worded it better but he sure is making a good point.

Sir yours and OPs point has already been answered in the thread. At no point in the chase Pakistan were in a state of panic or had to keep up with the run rate. We had 50 overs at our disposal why should we try to get there in 35 and in the process be shot out for a low score.

Sure you can have your disagreement with the method but unfortunately this is the Pakistani way. Someone like SA or India may have tried to get there within 30-40 overs. But that is not how we play our cricket. We have always been nervous chasers and the safety first approach was perfectly the order of the day. Different teams have different strengths and our strength had always been to dismiss the opposition for a sub par score and then get there at your own pace. This is how Pakistan has ALWAYS won its matches.

 

[Syed1]

Where are you pulling that from?

Khawaja < Roy
Warner > Hales
Smith < Root
Marsh = Morgan
Head < Stokes
Maxwell < Buttler
Wade = Moeen
Faulkner > Woakes
Starc > Willey
Cummins < Rashid
Hazlewood < Ball

In what world is Roy better than Khawaja. And the opening pair of Warner-Khawaja is in a different league compared to Hales-Roy. Smith is also a better LOI bat than Root. I'll give you Stokes and Buttler. The rest I agree with.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sir yours and OPs point has already been answered in the thread. At no point in the chase Pakistan were in a state of panic or had to keep up with the run rate. We had 50 overs at our disposal why should we try to get there in 35 and in the process be shot out for a low score.

Sure you can have your disagreement with the method but unfortunately this is the Pakistani way. Someone like SA or India may have tried to get there within 30-40 overs. But that is not how we play our cricket. We have always been nervous chasers and the safety first approach was perfectly the order of the day. Different teams have different strengths and our strength had always been to dismiss the opposition for a sub par score and then get there at your own pace. This is how Pakistan has ALWAYS won its matches.

I am not saying you have to chase this down in 30-40 overs.

India probably wouldn't have chased it in 35 overs. Would have taken atleast 40 in my opinion.

Safety first approach is all fine and dandy but its like this:

You are learning abacus to compete in a competition. You try to take your time to do the math problems. Since your opponent is too slow, you don't have to rush to get your answer....you can take a bit more time and get the desired results.

Tomorrow, you go to a ABACUS national competition where people all over the country converge to take the tests. There your approach would be useless cos speed is of paramount importance there. Without speed, correct answers have no meaning.

That's the problem with Pakistan.

You get to win this battle but the manner doesn't help you in the war except for some confidence which can be good but without necessary ammunition (speed in this case), its of little use.

Not being negative but just stating a fact.

India for all its record chase still has an obsolete non working batting lineup which if they don't sort will end up costing it CT 2017.

That's the reality of the situation.

 

[Tusker]

Sir yours and OPs point has already been answered in the thread. At no point in the chase Pakistan were in a state of panic or had to keep up with the run rate. We had 50 overs at our disposal why should we try to get there in 35 and in the process be shot out for a low score.

Sure you can have your disagreement with the method but unfortunately this is the Pakistani way. Someone like SA or India may have tried to get there within 30-40 overs. But that is not how we play our cricket. We have always been nervous chasers and the safety first approach was perfectly the order of the day. Different teams have different strengths and our strength had always been to dismiss the opposition for a sub par score and then get there at your own pace. This is how Pakistan has ALWAYS won its matches.

The thing is with that defensive mindset the players are never going to learn how to play in a big chase. Today was a good opportunity to play some positive cricket and gain crucial experience but all they did was to learn how to do safe tuk-tuk like it was 1980.

 

[Abdullah719]

In what world is Roy better than Khawaja. And the opening pair of Warner-Khawaja is in a different league compared to Hales-Roy. Smith is also a better LOI bat than Root. I'll give you Stokes and Buttler. The rest I agree with.

Roy is a far better ODI opener than Khawaja, one of the best in the world.

However - Rashid is not better than Cummins. No chance.

Too soon to compare Ball to anyone but he'll have to be pretty special to be better than Hazlewood.

 

[HitWicket]

In what world is Roy better than Khawaja. And the opening pair of Warner-Khawaja is in a different league compared to Hales-Roy. Smith is also a better LOI bat than Root. I'll give you Stokes and Buttler. The rest I agree with.

Laughable.

Last 12 months :

Roy Averages 45.00 @ 109.09
Khawaja Averages 37.81 @ 90.23

Root Averages 62.42 @ 90.85
Smith Averages 44.37 @ 84.45

 

[Donal Cozzie]

What the hell is wrong with Pakistan fans honestly.

You had a target of 220, why the hell would you try chase it in 35 or so overs when you're given 50??

I mean seriously, had the team played aggressively and lost wickets you'd rightfully slate them for being brainless, yet when they have a low chase you slate them for playing it safe? What do you want from them honestly. On a pitch decent for bowling you expect them to just slog and go at 6 an over when the RRR is little over 4. Absolute madness.

Cannot understand this mentality. Cant even celebrate a win without giving out about the pace of the win, when all that matters is you won the damn game and comfortably too. Let's not even get into the fact that the India vs England game was played on a completely different track.

Staggering

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not a legitimate comparison although Pakistan is rarely known for attacking cricket these days.They largely depend on bowlers restricting opposition to a manageable total. But you have to consider this is not exactly the best batting line up India can offer. They can do better with Rohit sharma, Pandey back in the side. Pant is banging the door as well. Yes Pakistan still adopts old style run chase as much as they can. In the last 5 years India has chased 270 plus totals 13 times successfully followed by Australia 10 times. Pakistan has a meagre 3 successful 270 run chases. Yes there is a point to what OP is saying. But comparison of these two matches won't help emphasizing that point.

 

[HitWicket]

Roy is a far better ODI opener than Khawaja, one of the best in the world.

However - Rashid is not better than Cummins. No chance.

Too soon to compare Ball to anyone but he'll have to be pretty special to be better than Hazlewood.

Fair point with Cummins, on the basis of watching him in the BBL this summer I'll put him = with Rashid for now. After all he hasn't even show a vague sign of being able to replicate his BBL cameos at international level yet.

Pretty sure Ball is better than Hazlewood with the bat. Only took him 1 ODI innings to come within 2 runs of Hazlewoods 75 match career high list a score .

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Considering the ranking points at stake and just the sheer importance a win in Australia means, Pakistan could've taken 49 overs to chase 49 runs and it would've been absolutely perfectly acceptable.

Why you would endanger a win for the sake of batting fast when it isn't required is beyond me. If it was a WC where NRR comes into play OK fair enough but man, I cannot understand this mentality

 

[Messiah]

Laughable.

Last 12 months :

Roy Averages 45.00 @ 109.09
Khawaja Averages 37.81 @ 90.23

Root Averages 62.42 @ 90.85
Smith Averages 44.37 @ 84.45

Why not compare Warner with Roy and Hales with khawaja. That makes more sense comparing stronger opener with stronger right?

 

[Abdullah719]

Fair point with Cummins, on the basis of watching him in the BBL this summer I'll put him = with Rashid for now. After all he hasn't even show a vague sign of being able to replicate his BBL cameos at international level yet.

Pretty sure Ball is better than Hazlewood with the bat. Only took him 1 ODI innings to come within 2 runs of Hazlewoods 75 match career high list a score .

Oh we're comparing batting only?

Don't think there's any need to compare two #11s.

Cummins hasn't shown much with the bat but he is more suited to the shorter formats as a batsman, he can hit a long ball while Rashid seems more of an orthodox type batsman.

 

[HitWicket]

Why not compare Warner with Roy and Hales with khawaja. That makes more sense comparing stronger opener with stronger right?

In the same period Hales actually has better stats than Roy but put them either way round and in the end you're always going to have a 1-1 draw on the openers, just happened to be the way they were listed on team sheets.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Considering the ranking points at stake and just the sheer importance a win in Australia means, Pakistan could've taken 49 overs to chase 49 runs and it would've been absolutely perfectly acceptable.

Why you would endanger a win for the sake of batting fast when it isn't required is beyond me. If it was a WC where NRR comes into play OK fair enough but man, I cannot understand this mentality

No one is saying Pakistan had to chase it in 35 overs.

They are saying Pakistan could have done better than 48 overs.

They are not saying Pakistan should have forced players to attack more and risked a win and crucial points.

They are saying make a note of those who screwed up even during this performance and make changes as the value of this win doesn't extend beyond the points Pakistan gets.

If the ultimate goal is to just get to CT or WC and play....sure status quo is fine.

If the ultimate goal is to win tourneys, action is required.

 

[wasimjunior]

Where are you pulling that from?

Khawaja < Roy
Warner > Hales
Smith < Root
Marsh = Morgan
Head < Stokes
Maxwell < Buttler
Wade = Moeen
Faulkner > Woakes
Starc > Willey
Cummins < Rashid
Hazlewood < Ball

Aussie batting lineup at home or England in India?

I think you're a little confused.

Stupid thread

 

[HitWicket]

Aussie batting lineup at home or England in India?

Either way, Englands batting lineup is no different to how it would be out of Asia.

 

[MMHS]

I think, it shouldn't be looked that way - rather it should be considered that PAK won against better opponents at their home more comfortably compared to India's chase against inferior opponents at own home.

Having said that, it takes a tremendous mental effort & planning to chase such a monumental target on any kind of surface or condition. These sort of comparison is never conclusive because of context. I watched both game & felt that PAK was almost always under control in the chase; but India really had to stress in certain phases of the game.

At the end, it's about winning - India's win was a prefect example of their strengths while PAK's win must be tremendous confidence boosting for a side almost mentally crippled while bowling first & against their serial nemesis - Australia.

 

[Mobashir]

Pakistan win today was 1000 Times superior to indian team win.
Winning an ODI in australia against this kind of a bowling is no joke.

India can only dream of it, actually most teams will loose 5-0, 4-1 against this aussie team in Australia.

Beating England in asia in an ODI is really no achievment.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Yeah, let's completely ignore the bowling attacks and difference in pitches, conditions and ground size.

 

[jnaveen1980]

By the way.. how helpful the track was for spinners? I see spinners conceding only 97 in 24 overs.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Where are you pulling that from?

Khawaja < Roy
Warner > Hales
Smith < Root
Marsh = Morgan
Head < Stokes
Maxwell < Buttler
Wade = Moeen
Faulkner > Woakes
Starc > Willey
Cummins < Rashid
Hazlewood < Ball

Lol Ball is better than Hazlewood? Now I've seen it all. Rashid bowled filth all match and Indians will agree with that. Cummins is much better. In ODI cricket smith is better than root overall. You are only right about Roy, Stokes and Buttler

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It's not about the conditions or who is playing against better batting line up. Pakistan is not going to bowl oppositions out for less than 250 everytime. They have to be ready to chase a total of 300+. You cannot rely on your strength everytime. India also depends too much on their batting. And we saw what happened in the semi final of the 2015 world cup.

 

[HitWicket]

Lol Ball is better than Hazlewood? Now I've seen it all. Rashid bowled filth all match and Indians will agree with that. Cummins is much better. In ODI cricket smith is better than root overall. You are only right about Roy, Stokes and Buttler

All you have shown with this post is that you completely ignored the discussion, saw a list and commented on it with no context at all. We were solely discussing batting ability.

I'll refer back to the following stats from the last 12 months :

Root : Averages 62.42 @ 90.85
Smith : Averages 44.37 @ 84.45

 

[marlonbrowndo]

All you have shown with this post is that you completely ignored the discussion, saw a list and commented on it with no context at all. We were discussing batting ability.

I'll refer back to the following stats from the last 12 months :

Root : Averages 62.42 @ 90.85
Smith : Averages 44.37 @ 84.45

Oops my bad. But I still think Smith is a better batsman than Root despite the numbers and Khawaja is as good as Roy

 

[jnaveen1980]

This is Pakistan's chase against England . An inferior bowling attack without Stokes

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/902647.html7

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Pakistan concedes 220 against Australia in Australia. India concedes 350 against England in India. The gulf between the two sides. Putting conditions to one side, India should be horrified at how far off they are.

Easily the worst thread I've seen in a while.

Have to agree.

Also, there's no reason to think Pakistan may not have scored faster had it been required (or that India may have batted slower if they needed less).

Also, just to add, we won a thriller at home and you guys cruised to a win away. Can't believe this is being used to argue that we performed better....

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pakistan win today was 1000 Times superior to indian team win.
Winning an ODI in australia against this kind of a bowling is no joke.

India can only dream of it, actually most teams will loose 5-0, 4-1 against this aussie team in Australia.

Beating England in asia in an ODI is really no achievment.

India did lose against Australia by 4 - 1 in Australia. Almost 300 runs were scored in every match. India managed to whitewash Australia by 3 - 0 in T20 series though.



http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/895803.html

 

[Pakpak]

Where are you pulling that from?

Khawaja < Roy
Warner > Hales
Smith < Root
Marsh = Morgan
Head < Stokes
Maxwell < Buttler
Wade = Moeen
Faulkner > Woakes
Starc > Willey
Cummins < Rashid
Hazlewood < Ball

Ball, Rashid, Buttler better than Hazlewood, Cummins and Maxwell.

What are you smoking?

As for the topic, the gulf is massive. India is way ahead and miles better. Shame the OP chose a ridiculous example to demonstrate this.

 

[Ellipsism]

Where are you pulling that from?

Khawaja < Roy
Warner > Hales
Smith < Root
Marsh = Morgan
Head < Stokes
Maxwell < Buttler
Wade = Moeen
Faulkner > Woakes
Starc > Willey
Cummins < Rashid
Hazlewood < Ball

Ball better than Hazlewood, is this some joke.

 

[Pakpak]

Either way, Englands batting lineup is no different to how it would be out of Asia.

My bad, you compared batting, not bowling.

 

[HitWicket]

Ball, Rashid, Buttler better than Hazlewood, Cummins and Maxwell.

What are you smoking?

As for the topic, the gulf is massive. India is way ahead and miles better. Shame the OP chose a ridiculous example to demonstrate this.

The amount of people here who just click a thread, read a single part of a post ignoring any quotes or anything else included in it then comment on it is astounding . Once again, was referring solely to batting ability.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Ball better than Hazlewood, is this some joke.

I guess he got tired and confused between greater than and less than signs in the end.

 

[HitWicket]

Ball better than Hazlewood, is this some joke.

The only joke here is you're the 4th person not to read the quoted post in that post and realise the discussion was about batting ability.

 

[Pakpak]

The amount of people here who just click a thread, read a single part of a post ignoring any quotes or anything else included in it then comment on it is astounding . Once again, was referring solely to batting ability.

The only joke here is you're the 4th person not to read the quoted post in that post and realise the discussion was about batting ability.

Sorry

 

[Abdullah719]

Sorry

Like I said, who compares two #11s on batting ability?

 

[Pakpak]

Like I said, who compares two #11s on batting ability?

Anyone wanting to downplay Pakistan's efforts.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Australia also scored 220?

Really poor thread.

 

[HitWicket]

Anyone wanting to downplay Pakistan's efforts.

Except I'm not attempting to downplay anything, just replying to a comment stating that man for man each Australian player was a better batsman than their English counterpart.

 

[Syed1]

Except I'm not attempting to downplay anything, just replying to a comment stating that man for man each Australian player was a better batsman than their English counterpart.

Actually thats not true, if you read my post in entirety I said man for man each of the Aussie bats is better than their English counterparts. The clue is in the word "bats".

 

[HitWicket]

Actually thats not true, if you read my post in entirety I said man for man each of the Aussie bats is better than their English counterparts. The clue is in the word "bats".

Fair enough, we can cut it down to the top 6/7 if you really want, as you've already acknowledged it's still a false claim however.

 

[Syed1]

Fair enough, we can cut it down to the top 6/7 if you really want, as you've already acknowledged it's still a false claim however.

I may have gone overboard with the "man for man" comment, but Australia in Australia is a MUCH harder opposition than England in India.

 

[mr-k]

Not considering pitches and conditions, is this the gulf that exists between the two sides.. if this is the case than it is just horrifying to think how far we are off

that we cannot play an ODI liked it is played today, we are just about 20 years off from modern cricket

Lol

Match was played in India and Pakistan played in Australia
England scored 350 and Australia 220.

 

[Asim2Good]

aray bhai log, dono team jeeta na
to tension kis baat ki hai

 

[LegendAli]

In what world is Roy better than Khawaja. And the opening pair of Warner-Khawaja is in a different league compared to Hales-Roy. Smith is also a better LOI bat than Root. I'll give you Stokes and Buttler. The rest I agree with.

You agree with Ball being better than Hazlewood?

 

[Syed1]

You agree with Ball being better than Hazlewood?

That was a false comparison of the batting abilities of two number 11's and the matter has been put to rest. Why would you compare the batting abilities of two number 11's?

 

[joly]

Stop fighting and hail Pakistan's greatest achievement in limited over's cricket since 2009 World T20

 

[msb314]

Yes, the conditions are not the same so you can't directly compare it statistically.

But you can still compare the performances.

Pakistan got Aus to a super low total on a not so easy pitch to bat. Good job. Pak bowlers were indeed amazing while Indian bowlers bowled trash on an admittedly tougher track (just cos its in India doesn't make it easier - it was a patta).

What happened next was, it took Pakistan all its energy and mental strength to overhaul this score.

So in other words, Pakistan bowling and batting had to function at its VERY BEST to beat Aus when they performed at their worst. And India inspite of performing horribly with the ball and with majority of its batsmen flunking, managed to overhaul a record total.

Now I am not saying this to turn it into an India - Pakistan fight but people who are having a go at OP as if he is making no sense need to look at the larger picture.

We don't have to compare Pakistan and India batting and make the same cliched responses but what we need to do is understand that the way Pakistan won the last game helps it go nowhere in the modern ODI world. The batting lineup has to be shuffled...slow coaches dropped and newcomers added.

Even in a win, there are hardly any positives to take from the batting. That's OP's concern. Maybe he could have worded it better but he sure is making a good point.

SIF - I have always maintained that unless the target is less than 200, you should always keep up with the asking rate when chasing in ODI's.

Our asking rate was about 4.4 at the start of the innings and hence we played at that rate throughout the innings barring the first two overs - when Hafeez played out a maiden.

Of course - our batting is suspect when chasing larger scores but there was nothing wrong with our approach today.

I would actually argue this is also effective in the early stages of ICC tournaments as wins always override any tiebreakers such as NRR etc. It is only when you have to chase a target to achieve a bonus point or boost your NRR should you change your approach.

 

[IamIndian]

Pakistan concedes 220 against Australia in Australia. India concedes 350 against England in India. The gulf between the two sides. Putting conditions to one side, India should be horrified at how far off they are.

Easily the worst thread I've seen in a while.

I watched both the matches.. England is much superior one day side than Aus at present. Pakistani batsmen were struggling to score @ 4runs/over in good batting pitch.

 

[taqi]

Pakistan concedes 220 against Australia in Australia. India concedes 350 against England in India. The gulf between the two sides. Putting conditions to one side, India should be horrified at how far off they are.

Easily the worst thread I've seen in a while.

Agree and lolz on comparison

 

[Pollack]

Like I said, who compares two #11s on batting ability?

Well England supporters can.They have capable batsman till number 11.

 

[Pollack]

On topic you cannot compare without considering pitch and place.

 

[waleed88]

Lol

Match was played in India and Pakistan played in Australia
England scored 350 and Australia 220.

Ok, fine, but when did we last chase a 350 down?

Ok chalo theek hai, no 350.. 330, 320?, 310?

 

[waleed88]

Australia also scored 220?

Really poor thread.

Ok fine, but the last time we chased down 350? I know teams are chasing these totals down everyday, wasn't there a high scoring encounter just recently between Aus vs SA on these same pitches, why aren't we capable of this kind of cricket?

 

[Mobashir]

India did lose against Australia by 4 - 1 in Australia. Almost 300 runs were scored in every match. India managed to whitewash Australia by 3 - 0 in T20 series though.

View attachment 72016

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/895803.html

A cricket match is not about scoring a lot of runs but about scoring more than the opposition!

And it's the worst bowling attack ever from Australia otherWise India would have been whitewashed.
With the same bowling attack they were whitewashed 5-0 by SA recently.

 

[anindo]

It is incredibly tough to beat Australia in Australia in ODIs. If I recall correctly, this is only the 4th ODI Australia have lost at home since 2013-14. They beat Engalnd 4-1,SA 4-1, India 4-1, won all games in the tri-series before the world cup as well as winning all home games in the world cup.

So, any win against Australia in Australia needs to be savoured.

 

[street cricketer]

Don't want to put a damper on things but England made India look better than what they are.

India have an above average ODI team which will probably make the semis of Champions trophy but don't see it going any higher. The team has two geriatrics, an opener who doesn't know when he'll perform and is basically a team with liabilties carried by a great player. Which is basically how it was in the last T20 world cup. You can only go so much with a one man team.

Jadhav has obviously shown potential and I think Rahul has great potential as well but they need to prove it over a long period of time. This team is not a patch on the 2011 team which had a team of 5-6 match winners. I think the ODI team needs an injection of youth and players like Pant, Iyer, Suryakumar Yadav, Hooda, Sarfaraz, Lomror and Kishan need to tried before the 2019 world cup. No point in hanging with Dhoni and Yuvi when they aren't going to last the distance.

 

[waleed88]

I think of no comparison between the pitches, but we have conceded over 400 runs twice in ODIs, we've conceded a 360, a 370 in UAE, 390 vs England.. and some 340s-350 here and there..

When did we chase them down???

When???

 

[Statsman]

I think of no comparison between the pitches, but we have conceded over 400 runs twice in ODIs, we've conceded a 360, a 370 in UAE, 390 vs England.. and some 340s-350 here and there..

When did we chase them down???

When???

OP does have a point. Pakistan is an 8th ranked ODI team which relies on bowling more than batting in this age of flat tracks and huge totals. They'll pull it off once in a while but lose mostly on other occasions. Need to beef up the batting line up with more strong hitters.

 

[Pollack]

Don't want to put a damper on things but England made India look better than what they are.

India have an above average ODI team which will probably make the semis of Champions trophy but don't see it going any higher. The team has two geriatrics, an opener who doesn't know when he'll perform and is basically a team with liabilties carried by a great player. Which is basically how it was in the last T20 world cup. You can only go so much with a one man team.

Jadhav has obviously shown potential and I think Rahul has great potential as well but they need to prove it over a long period of time. This team is not a patch on the 2011 team which had a team of 5-6 match winners. I think the ODI team needs an injection of youth and players like Pant, Iyer, Suryakumar Yadav, Hooda, Sarfaraz, Lomror and Kishan need to tried before the 2019 world cup. No point in hanging with Dhoni and Yuvi when they aren't going to last the distance.

Yuvi seems to be back in flow. Anyway I would not be dissapointed if he is dropped.The reason why he is brought back is lack of power (six) hitters in middle order.Dhoni is no longer.Kedar is a busy player. Manish Pandey is also not power hitter.Hence yuvi preferred to him.

Agree about pant,sarfaraz to be inducted.kishan and hooda ( only bash spinner) are again not power hitters.Surya is average. Lomrar seems to not play much.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

I am not saying you have to chase this down in 30-40 overs.

India probably wouldn't have chased it in 35 overs. Would have taken atleast 40 in my opinion.

Safety first approach is all fine and dandy but its like this:

You are learning abacus to compete in a competition. You try to take your time to do the math problems. Since your opponent is too slow, you don't have to rush to get your answer....you can take a bit more time and get the desired results.

Tomorrow, you go to a ABACUS national competition where people all over the country converge to take the tests. There your approach would be useless cos speed is of paramount importance there. Without speed, correct answers have no meaning.

That's the problem with Pakistan.

You get to win this battle but the manner doesn't help you in the war except for some confidence which can be good but without necessary ammunition (speed in this case), its of little use.

Not being negative but just stating a fact.

India for all its record chase still has an obsolete non working batting lineup which if they don't sort will end up costing it CT 2017.

That's the reality of the situation.

There's no point trying to evaluate this sort of counter-factual.

If someone is asked to submit a project by Friday, and he does so on Friday evening, you can't conclude that he's incompetent because the project was easy. Or even more bizzarely, that the fellow who was asked to submit on Thursday is a better worker because he submitted quicker.

 

[street cricketer]

As for the thread itself, the philosophies of both teams are completely different and diametrically opposite.

Pakistan work on the principle of whatever you restrict us for, we'll make sure we restrict you more..

India work on the principle of whatever you score against us, we'll make sure we'll score more.

It's how it is and it's how it has always been. Tough to change these things overnight. So difficult to compare both teams as they operate on two different philosophies.

 

[R0H1T]

Don't want to put a damper on things but England made India look better than what they are.

India have an above average ODI team which will probably make the semis of Champions trophy but don't see it going any higher. The team has two geriatrics, an opener who doesn't know when he'll perform and is basically a team with liabilties carried by a great player. Which is basically how it was in the last T20 world cup. You can only go so much with a one man team.

Jadhav has obviously shown potential and I think Rahul has great potential as well but they need to prove it over a long period of time. This team is not a patch on the 2011 team which had a team of 5-6 match winners. I think the ODI team needs an injection of youth and players like Pant, Iyer, Suryakumar Yadav, Hooda, Sarfaraz, Lomror and Kishan need to tried before the 2019 world cup. No point in hanging with Dhoni and Yuvi when they aren't going to last the distance.

They are a short term fix, brought in probably just for the CT. Unless they produce multiple match winning knocks from now till the end of CT they ought to be dropped permanently after it's over. There'd still be 2 years left for us to build another team.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Don't want to put a damper on things but England made India look better than what they are.

India have an above average ODI team which will probably make the semis of Champions trophy but don't see it going any higher. The team has two geriatrics, an opener who doesn't know when he'll perform and is basically a team with liabilties carried by a great player. Which is basically how it was in the last T20 world cup. You can only go so much with a one man team.

Jadhav has obviously shown potential and I think Rahul has great potential as well but they need to prove it over a long period of time. This team is not a patch on the 2011 team which had a team of 5-6 match winners. I think the ODI team needs an injection of youth and players like Pant, Iyer, Suryakumar Yadav, Hooda, Sarfaraz, Lomror and Kishan need to tried before the 2019 world cup. No point in hanging with Dhoni and Yuvi when they aren't going to last the distance.

Dhoni and Yuvraj are still fine. Dhawan playing is a disgrace when he's just not performed in ages and players like Pant, Rahul and Iyer are so much better than him.

 

[street cricketer]

Yuvi seems to be back in flow. Anyway I would not be dissapointed if he is dropped.The reason why he is brought back is lack of power (six) hitters in middle order.Dhoni is no longer.Kedar is a busy player. Manish Pandey is also not power hitter.Hence yuvi preferred to him.

Agree about pant,sarfaraz to be inducted.kishan and hooda ( only bash spinner) are again not power hitters.Surya is average. Lomrar seems to not play much.

Lomror will play for India. Hard hitting spin bowling all rounder. Not Axar Patel level.. Similar to Maxwell, but a better bowler and probably a lesser batsman.

 

[MenInG]

India concedes 350

Pakistan concedes....

Against an Australian lineup which regularly scores 300+

Think.

 

[anindo]

Dhoni and Yuvraj are still fine. Dhawan playing is a disgrace when he's just not performed in ages and players like Pant, Rahul and Iyer are so much better than him.

Dhawan played an ODI after a year. He scored close to 300 runs in the last series that he played (against Aus in Aus)