India delays Agni-V test launch | India test fires Agni-5, joins elite club [Merged]

[Gattuso]

Taepodong-2's first stage is a Musudan-1 "Mobile" 4,000 km MRBM, based on the Soviet R-27 Zyb. North Korea developed the Musudan-1 with the help of former Russian engineers of the VP Makeyev Design Bureau. On April 5, 2009, a Taepodong-2 missile with a satellite on board, was launched from the Musudan-ri facility. The payload did not reach orbit, however, the first stage worked without any problems and fell in the ocean as planned.

i think you are mixing up the musudan with the taepodong.

hmmmm ok. Can connect the dots now. Interesting though, only the rocket motors fired and they've concluded that the missile works. The other complex stuff like guiding it to its target ( ?)

 

[velu]

what i don't understand is why is India planing on even greater range missiles e.g. 8000km and 10000km if it's only threat is pak and china.

There is not much difficulty in upgrading 5k to 10km once someone masters reentry..

 

[Bhaijaan]

Agni-V can reach targets 8000 km away: Chinese experts

Chinese experts feel that there is more fire power to India's successful long-range nuclear-capable missile Agni-V than what New Delhi is saying. A Chinese researcher said the missile "actually has the potential to reach targets 8,000 kilometers away". Du Wenlong, a researcher


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With China in range, India fires N-capable Agni-V
What is Agni-V all about?
Fire power: Why Agni V is important for India
at China's PLA Academy of Military Sciences, told the Global Times that the Agni-V "actually has the potential to reach targets 8,000 kilometers away".
Du added that "the Indian government had deliberately downplayed the missile's capability in order to avoid causing concern to other countries".

India on Thursday test-fired the Agni-V missile that it said can accurately hit targets more than 5,000 km away. With this launch, India entered an exclusive club of nations that have this capability.

Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor with the People's Liberation Army National Defense University, told the Global Times that according to China's standard, an ICBM should have a range of at least 8,000 km.

"The Agni-V's range could be further enhanced to become an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile," he said

 

[Garuda]

hmmmm ok. Can connect the dots now. Interesting though, only the rocket motors fired and they've concluded that the missile works. The other complex stuff like guiding it to its target ( ?)

Ram bharose

 

[Gattuso]

It is sad, and I am not only talking about India here, that the country does not question disproportionate spending in arms race, and thinks raising questions is anti nation and unpatriotic.

They create a sense of paranoia and distract by showing an enemy outside the borders, and it becomes easy for the sheep to rally behind their decisions.

Nehru thought like that once upon a time.. he wanted to scrap the army. And then China (1962) happened..

China is our no.1 threat..not Pak.
We have outstanding border disputes with them just like their other neighbours in the South China Sea.

An ICBM that can hit Beijing is for us what a missile is for you guys that can hit Delhi/Mumbai. Would you try to scrap it ? I didn't think so..

 

[Gattuso]

Ram bharose

Kim Bharose :ahmed

 

[zhivago]

Nehru thought like that once upon a time.. he wanted to scrap the army. And then China (1962) happened..

China is our no.1 threat..not Pak.
We have outstanding border disputes with them just like their other neighbours in the South China Sea.

An ICBM that can hit Beijing is for us what a missile is for you guys that can hit Delhi/Mumbai. Would you try to scrap it ? I didn't think so..

In the times we live in, each country would like to have a minimum deterrence. I was not questioning that right. What I am against is the arms race and disproportionate spending on weapons on the basis of an invisible threat.

I fully support Pakistan developing nuclear weapons, as now India cannot afford to attack. But I am against Pakistan piling up its nuclear arsenal when the main enemy( poverty, terrorism) is inside the border.

India bought Admiral Gorshkov for $2.33 billion, which even the Russians were not using because of its cost to operate.

And not to mention that India is the largest arms importer in the world at present. Is India isn't under so much threat?

All this, when half of the population is poor, and wants roti and kapda, and not a membership of an elite club.

 

[Gattuso]

In the times we live in, each country would like to have a minimum deterrence. I was not questioning that right. What I am against is the arms race and disproportionate spending on weapons on the basis of an invisible threat.

I fully support Pakistan developing nuclear weapons, as now India cannot afford to attack. But I am against Pakistan piling up its nuclear arsenal when the main enemy( poverty, terrorism) is inside the border.

India bought Admiral Gorshkov for $2.33 billion, which even the Russians were not using because of its cost to operate.

And not to mention that India is the largest arms importer in the world at present. Is India isn't under so much threat?

All this, when half of the population is poor, and wants roti and kapda, and not a membership of an elite club.

Well we just achieved minimum deterrence against China.. who has a history of conflict with us. So it isn't even like an invisible enemy.

As for the poor, granted we have many that need to be uplifted. It is a continuing process, the poor won't disappear overnight..if you look at the numbers you'd see the progress we've made from lets say 20-30 years ago.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

According to a new UN Millennium Development Goals Report, as many as 320 million people in India and China are expected to come out of extreme poverty in the next four years, while India's poverty rate is projected to drop to 22% in 2015.[5] The report also indicates that in Southern Asia, however, only India, where the poverty rate is projected to fall from 51% in 1990 to about 22% in 2015, is on track to cut poverty in half by the 2015 target date.[5]

 

[Qelic]

*developing is a fun word to use

any country can claim to be developing stuff.
Iran is supposed to be developing nukes... noone would know for sure till they test one successfully.
Same thing with missiles.

Iran is not developing any nukes ... if we wanted to then we would already have ...

Talking of Missiles , among muslim nations , Iran has the longest range strike capability with BM-25 , Shahab 3B and Ghadr 110 , Sejjil 2 . It is also the only Muslim state to have the Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle MIRV strike

While Safir I , II , Simorgh Space Launching Vehicles SLV can be converted into ICBM anytime by employing a re-entry vehicle

 

[speed]

Iran is not developing any nukes ... if we wanted to then we would already have ...

Talking of Missiles , among muslim nations , Iran has the longest range strike capability with BM-25 , Shahab 3B and Ghadr 110 , Sejjil 2 . It is also the only Muslim state to have the Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle MIRV strike

While Safir I , II , Simorgh Space Launching Vehicles SLV can be converted into ICBM anytime by employing a re-entry vehicle

what are the range of these missiles?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

The 'missile woman' behind India's new ICBM

The media loves calling her Missile Woman - and with good reason.

Tessy Thomas, a scientist from India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), is a rare woman who has played a key role in the making of its most potent long-range nuclear-capable ballistic missile, the Agni-V, which was successfully tested on Thursday.

She is thought to be one of the very few women working on strategic nuclear ballistic missiles in the world.

In the male-dominated world of the country's highly secretive missile development programme, Ms Thomas, 49, has stood out ever since she joined the DRDO in 1988.

But the charismatic scientist says she has never faced any anti-female bias at her workplace.

"There is no gender discrimination in technology. If your work is good it automatically stands out. I have never faced any discrimination ever in my workplace," she says.

Ms Thomas, a Roman Catholic, was born to a small-businessman father and a homemaker mother in Alleppey in southern Kerala state.

She grew up near a rocket launching station and says her fascination with rockets and missiles began then.

After finishing school and college in Kerala, she left the state for the first time at the age of 20 to pursue a masters degree in guided missiles in the western Indian city of Pune. It was there she met her future husband, Saroj Kumar, now a commodore in the Indian navy.

Ms Thomas says she was named after Mother Teresa, the late Nobel laureate who worked with the poor in Calcutta.

'Weapons of peace'

So how does she feel about about working on some of the most powerful weapons of mass destruction?

Ms Thomas says she is developing "what are really weapons of peace".

What has been infinitely more difficult, she says, is juggling work and family.

At times, she says, she is torn between her loyalties to the missile programme and her family responsibilities.

It has helped immensely, she believes, that she has had immense support from her husband and son, Tejas, an engineering student who shares his name with India's indigenously developed light combat aircraft, also made by the DRDO.

In a glowing tribute in 2008, The Indian Woman Scientists Association did not forget to mention that "like most women she also does a tight-rope walk between home and career, between being a mother and a scientist who is dedicated to her job.

"We feel Tessy Thomas serves as a role model and an inspiration for women scientists to achieve their dreams and have their feet planted in both worlds successfully," the group said.

Ms Thomas has said when she joined the DRDO there were very few women working there. Now there are many more working in key weapons programmes.

In January, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told the Indian Science Congress that Ms Thomas is an example of a "woman making her mark in a traditionally male bastion and decisively breaking the glass ceiling".

Last year, three women scientists won the Shanti Swarup Bhatnagar award, India's top science prize, compared to 11 from 1958-2010.

Now, the accolades are again coming fast for Ms Thomas - the media also love to call her Agniputri, or one born of fire, after the missiles she has helped develop.

"We are all proud of our country. Agni-V is one of our greatest achievements," she says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17781281​

A woman scorned!

 

[Qelic]

what are the range of these missiles?

Some of the Iranian missiles .....




Shahab 3B MIRV Solid Fuel ... 2100 km ( there are C and D versions too but they were prototypes )

Fajr -3 liquid Fuel MIRV .... 2500 km

Ghadr-110 .... 2500 km

X-55 .... 3000 km

Ashoura ..... 2500-3000 km

BM-25 liquid feul - 3,000–4,000 km

Sajjil 2 Solid feul .... 2500 km

Shahab-4 / Safir SLV ... expected to be around 5000 km ( if rentry vehicle is employed )


There are also Sahab 5 , and Project Kowsar which world thinks we r hiding in our shelves to avoid sanctions ....

 

[Gattuso]

Shahab-4 / Safir SLV ... expected to be around 5000 km ( if rentry vehicle is employed )


There are also Sahab 5 , and Project Kowsar which world thinks we r hiding in our shelves to avoid sanctions ....

I don't think you guys can be sanctioned more than you already are.. India and China are using gold to buy oil from you.

I saw something on the news(CNN/Fox) a few months back about Iranian "flying boats" inducted into the navy. It looked/sounded quite funny. Is there really such a thing ? or just the press twisting things up.

[utube]qTIoezhRS3g[/utube]

 

[Qelic]

I don't think you guys can be sanctioned more than you already are.. India and China are using gold to buy oil from you.

I saw something on the news(CNN/Fox) a few months back about Iranian "flying boats" inducted into the navy. It looked/sounded quite funny. Is there really such a thing ? or just the press twisting things up.

[utube]qTIoezhRS3g[/utube]

not just gold ... we import our made stuff to 57 countries ( non petro ) ... not everyone pays us back in gold ... or we may end up with all the gold in world

Those were flying boats / small seaplanes called Bavar for coast guards made by Maritime students from mazandaran . The world "Stealth" comes from low Radar Cross section and the Terrain masking channel of flying ...

 

[Areesh]

Ms Thomas says she is developing "what are really weapons of peace".

Lol

 

[bala977]

This is not my view, but read this somewhere - it is in the nature for man to go to war. Sooner or later, there will be WW3 - it could be 100 years from now, but it is a certainty - so a deterrent is always helpful

 

[Romali_rotti]

Mods - please merge with the following thread:

Why did India develop and acquire the Atomic bomb?

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=129353&highlight=Atomic

Ohh Ohh thats right, Jeerablade thinks its because of Pakistan

 

[Romali_rotti]

2. They will have at least something to defend themselves with in case China attacks. .

So you knew all along the real reason but just added the rest for fun huh...

 

[KingKhanWC]

This missile test and development is a bit of dumb move by India. In a war situation with China this won't be any more of a deterrent than what India has already. It only has increased the paranoia of the big red dragon. India is spending huge amounts on weaponry, they have the big dragon on one side and the green army on the other. A nation which is not well like by it's neighbours.

Another dumb move was going into bed with a weakening empire, the USA. Not the smartest people in Old Dehli.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Hope this Surya Missile doesn't turn out to be like another Atul Sharma

We have to be very cautious when it comes to celebrations as our politicians can ruin everything.

We ve got the technology to do it, it wont be a failure even if it is they can rebound I am sure.. Only issue is that a Surya missile might cause a bit of uneasiness with the US and currently they will back India against any war vs China, having a powefull ally like that is priceless....

 

[KingKhanWC]

We ve got the technology to do it, it wont be a failure even if it is they can rebound I am sure.. Only issue is that a Surya missile might cause a bit of uneasiness with the US and currently they will back India against any war vs China, having a powefull ally like that is priceless....

You seriously believe the US would back India in a war with China.

Please explain why you think this.

 

[Romali_rotti]

You seriously believe the US would back India in a war with China.

Please explain why you think this.

Americans already helped us get the Nuclear waiver when CHina was crying foul left right and centre.. Google it King kong I am sure you will find out why I feel this way...They dont hold the malabar and other joint exercises in the Indian ocean etc with the Indian Army, Navy so the soldiers get a good cardio work out...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Americans already helped us get the Nuclear waiver when CHina was crying foul left right and centre.. Google it King kong I am sure you will find out why I feel this way...

Yes it's the same as going to war with China for YOU.

This is what the Chinese have said.

"India is still poor and lags behind in infrastructure construction, but its society is highly supportive of developing nuclear power and the West chooses to overlook India's disregard of nuclear and missile control treaties. The West remains silent on the fact that India's military spending increased by 17 per cent in 2012 and the country has again become the largest weapons importer in the world.

"India should not overestimate its strength. Even if it has missiles that could reach most parts of China, that does not mean it will gain anything from being arrogant during disputes with China. India should be clear that China's nuclear power is stronger and more reliable. For the foreseeable future, India would stand no chance in an overall arms race with China," the editorial claimed.

It also warned India against serving the interest of the United States and other western partners in seeking to "contain" China's expansion.

"India should also not overstate the value of its Western allies and the profits it could gain from participating in a containment of China. If it equates long range strategic missiles with deterrence of China, and stirs up further hostility, it could be sorely mistaken," it warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-India-of-arrogance-over-missile-launch.html


Apart from the fact the USA is in huge debt to China, one of it's biggest trading partners, it's a weakening superpower who would not risk war with China for India. Wake up and smell the cha.

 

[Qelic]

Americans already helped us get the Nuclear waiver when CHina was crying foul left right and centre.. Google it King kong I am sure you will find out why I feel this way...They dont hold the malabar and other joint exercises in the Indian ocean etc with the Indian Army, Navy so the soldiers get a good cardio work out...

then why do u think US allowed Anti Indian State Pakistan to get nukes ?

 

[KingKhanWC]

They dont hold the malabar and other joint exercises in the Indian ocean etc with the Indian Army, Navy so the soldiers get a good cardio work out...

It's exactly why they are doing along with luring India into a false sense of security. US would love for India and China to go at it as it would strengthen their global dominance but don't be deluded in thinking they would join in.

 

[IgnitedMind]

Good Job India...

India as a nation is doing well and improving in every field...feels great to be part of this transition generation. From what we were in early 90's to what we are now is awesome....its just a matter of time Poor/uneducated part of India get a fair chance to improve their life which is already happening ...

 

[Romali_rotti]

Yes it's the same as going to war with China for YOU.

This is what the Chinese have said.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-India-of-arrogance-over-missile-launch.html


Apart from the fact the USA is in huge debt to China, one of it's biggest trading partners, it's a weakening superpower who would not risk war with China for India. Wake up and smell the cha.

First of all India would not be stupid enough to start a war with the Chinese, in all honesty China would win. However should China get a bit ambitious and try anything funny I have no doubt US will come to India's aid, obviously you havent heard of US sending aircraft carriers to defend Taiwan the minute China got a bit carried away. Yeah US is in debt however if China goes to a war with India it will have a huge hit on the chinese economy which the US would love I am sure, also take into account its not hard to freeze the US treasury bonds which the Chinese have invested in at a time of conflict....Its in American interest to have a counter blance to China in the asian region and YOU know who it is..

 

[Romali_rotti]

US would love for India and China to go at it as it would strengthen their global dominance .

This much I agree...

 

[KingKhanWC]

First of all India would not be stupid enough to start a war with the Chinese, in all honesty China would win. However should China get a bit ambitious and try anything funny I have no doubt US will come to India's aid, obviously you havent heard of US sending aircraft carriers to defend Taiwan the minute China got a bit carried away. Yeah US is in debt however if China goes to a war with India it will have a huge hit on the chinese economy which the US would love I am sure, also take into account its not hard to freeze the US treasury bonds which the Chinese have invested in at a time of conflict....Its in American interest to have a counter blance to China in the asian region and YOU know who it is..

Military operations/co-operation doesn't mean the will to go to war.

I totally agree with the bold part but they would rather India and China hurt each other while sitting back and watching with popcorn.

 

[zhivago]

So you knew all along the real reason but just added the rest for fun huh...

The part you quoted was the only one added for fun.

India can never defend itself in case China decides to attack.

 

[Romali_rotti]

India can never defend itself in case China decides to attack.

Ohh they could defend for a period alright but China would win....

 

[Qelic]

nations can build missiles and bombs but the age of full scale wars and invasions r gone .... only possible if one side is very weak and other is very strong .... not the case with major rival states .

 

[Gattuso]

Chinese strategic experts have said that India's Agni-V missile has a potential to strike targets 8,000 km away and the launch of the long-range weapon shows that India is making concrete efforts to become a world power.

A top People's Army researcher, Du Wenlong has said that India has downplayed the rocket's capability to avoid causing concern to other countries. He said that the missile's range was actually 8,000 kms and not 5,000 as claimed by Indian scientists.

Launch of the India's most potent missile continued to make waves among Chinese analysts and media with a daily screaming 'India launches rocket that could hit Shanghai'.

China Daily said, "Missile test puts China in range".

Another leading Chinese researcher Su Hao, director of the centre for strategic and conflict management at China Foreign Affairs University told China Daily that Agni-V launch shows that India is making concrete efforts to support its ambition to become a world power.

The expert claimed that with the success of the long-range Agni-V India has finally acquired the third part of strategic triad after acquiring nuclear weapons and an aircraft carrier.

"Compared with conventional weapons, nuclear weapons and strategic long-range missiles serve more as deterrents, but they are necessary for a global power," Su said.

Fu Xiaoqiang, a Chinese expert on South Asia, told Global Times that the missile test "not only makes India sit at the same table as the ICBM club but also makes it a bigger player in a multi-polar world."

"India has been seeing China as a goal or a competitor for its own development, military power included," Fu said adding that "China does not see India as a threat in reality".

"The development of India helps push forward the multi-polarisation of the world," he said.

Most of the Chinese language media too highlighted the strategic significance of the Agni-V's launch playing down the long held perception of the past that India's missile programme was Pakistan-centric.

 

[Senman]

Chinese strategic experts have said that India's Agni-V missile has a potential to strike targets 8,000 km away and the launch of the long-range weapon shows that India is making concrete efforts to become a world power.

A top People's Army researcher, Du Wenlong has said that India has downplayed the rocket's capability to avoid causing concern to other countries. He said that the missile's range was actually 8,000 kms and not 5,000 as claimed by Indian scientists.

Launch of the India's most potent missile continued to make waves among Chinese analysts and media with a daily screaming 'India launches rocket that could hit Shanghai'.

China Daily said, "Missile test puts China in range".

Another leading Chinese researcher Su Hao, director of the centre for strategic and conflict management at China Foreign Affairs University told China Daily that Agni-V launch shows that India is making concrete efforts to support its ambition to become a world power.

The expert claimed that with the success of the long-range Agni-V India has finally acquired the third part of strategic triad after acquiring nuclear weapons and an aircraft carrier.

"Compared with conventional weapons, nuclear weapons and strategic long-range missiles serve more as deterrents, but they are necessary for a global power," Su said.

Fu Xiaoqiang, a Chinese expert on South Asia, told Global Times that the missile test "not only makes India sit at the same table as the ICBM club but also makes it a bigger player in a multi-polar world."

"India has been seeing China as a goal or a competitor for its own development, military power included," Fu said adding that "China does not see India as a threat in reality".

"The development of India helps push forward the multi-polarisation of the world," he said.

Most of the Chinese language media too highlighted the strategic significance of the Agni-V's launch playing down the long held perception of the past that India's missile programme was Pakistan-centric.

How would he know its 8000 and not 5000?, if the news is true we have a traitor in our midst or he is just rambling to create and pass panic to European nations.

 

[Gattuso]

If you read the official wording closer..it says "greater than 5000" not 5000 , the range can very much be dependent on the payload

 

[Namak_Halaal]

This thread proves how widespread Hindutva truly is.

 

[Blitzkrieg27]

This thread proves how widespread Hindutva truly is.

lulz man !!! Your humor knows no bounds

 

[Singham]

This thread proves how widespread Hindutva truly is.

Buhahahaha....U make me laugh dude. U remind me of a guy who posted daily in a Kargil war Youtube video.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I will still stand by economy over military. However, we can afford it a bit more than Pakistan in the long run (in the long run, not currently with all the poor) and are not spending as much as Pakistan % wise.

Stop comparing with Pakistan and stick with India. Pakistan doesn’t need to expand its military for the sake of show-casing. Pakistani Nukes are well within the range of India, and that’s all we need against the only threat in the region – India.

Plus its not like our military is going to attack a foreign country without provocation and without our civilian goverment's knowledge

So this is your excuse? Develop AGNI V because India will not attack without provocation or without the knowledge if the Indian civilian government? How touching.

The fact is India’s Nuclear arsenal serves to protect and preserve Hinduism against the mighty Pakistan. Religious motive – nothing else.

Remember, India, Israel, and USA collectively failed to destroy Pakistan’s nuclear program in the 70s. What was India fearing back then one wonders?

So cut the pretence.

 

[Gattuso]

Immortal armies of Narnia theory..here we come !!! )

 

[shan]

One just have to go to any Indian forum to watch Hindutvas in action. Wanting to get back Pakistani lands, and its not just few in fact must of them. Just lands by the way since they have no love for the people. Here Indians will restrain for saying that for obivious reasons, but on their forums its different. Wonder why they dont show the same love for Bangladesh.

Their polical parties like BJP and RSS distribute Akhand Bharat maps all over India where Pakistan is part of them.

 

[Gattuso]

) .... we don;t want no part of that action man. You can keep Pak to yourself.

Don't know what this paranoia is about... we have enough chaos already trying to manage a huge nation. Never seen this theory anywhere else apart from here to be honest.

"distributing akhand bharat maps" ... good stuff you are smokin eh ?

 

[Cracket]

Time to step up your game Pakistan! Don't want to be left behind now.

 

[Singham]

Going by Namak Halaal's logic pakistan's missiles are built by islamists and if they target India, it would only kill Hindus not muslims. Warey wah....

 

[Cracket]

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-20/...ina-and-india-missile-global-times?_s=PM:ASIA


The missile is changing policies already, lol.

 

[Amar786]

Iran is not developing any nukes ... if we wanted to then we would already have ...

Talking of Missiles , among muslim nations , Iran has the longest range strike capability with BM-25 , Shahab 3B and Ghadr 110 , Sejjil 2 . It is also the only Muslim state to have the Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle MIRV strike

While Safir I , II , Simorgh Space Launching Vehicles SLV can be converted into ICBM anytime by employing a re-entry vehicle

You are kidding iran can't build nuclear bombs that why they aint been attacked had they had intentions to build nuclear bombs they would have been attacked.

Iran has no enemies unlike pakistan. Pakistan has better air force, military then iran and better missiles.

 

[Amar786]

Taimur (above 7,000 km range)

pakistans longest missile Intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missiles_of_Pakistan

 

[shan]

) .... we don;t want no part of that action man. You can keep Pak to yourself.

Don't know what this paranoia is about... we have enough chaos already trying to manage a huge nation. Never seen this theory anywhere else apart from here to be honest.

"distributing akhand bharat maps" ... good stuff you are smokin eh ?

Its true and one just need google to learn these things, infact you hindutva guys already know this.

Even Nehru wanted nukes in 1948 to gain advantge over Pakistan. Now Indians like to tell everyone they were for China.

 

[Singham]

The good news is India is capable of building its own arsenal. Hopefully we will stop all the imports and start building our war machines before 2020.

 

[velu]

One just have to go to any Indian forum to watch Hindutvas in action. Wanting to get back Pakistani lands, and its not just few in fact must of them. Just lands by the way since they have no love for the people. Here Indians will restrain for saying that for obivious reasons, but on their forums its different. Wonder why they dont show the same love for Bangladesh.

Their polical parties like BJP and RSS distribute Akhand Bharat maps all over India where Pakistan is part of them.

which forum you are talking about

I am in ICF and there are only 43 posts related to Agni V launch ..
you seem to be a guy throwing allegations based on your limited knowledge about us

 

[Gattuso]

Its true and one just need google to learn these things, infact you hindutva guys already know this.

Even Nehru wanted nukes in 1948 to gain advantge over Pakistan. Now Indians like to tell everyone they were for China.

Nehru also believed in "hindi chini bhai bhai"... that reached its crescendo in 1962.
We don't need nukes to have an advantage over Pak..conventionally the equation is strongly tilted in our favour mainly because of our size. Pak on the other hand needs nukes to have a deterrent over us.

If you look through enough of internet..you'd get equally crazy theories and their proponents - 911 inside job, NASA moon mission was a fake, Aliens built the egyptian pyramids etc.

There are definitely loonies in the RSS who may have such dreams, there are outliers in every country. (Ghazwa e Hind ? ). Aren;t there ppl in Pak who think they can take on the USA/NATO and win ? - Noone takes them seriously. why would you guys take our loonies so seriously ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its true and one just need google to learn these things, infact you hindutva guys already know this.

Even Nehru wanted nukes in 1948 to gain advantge over Pakistan. Now Indians like to tell everyone they were for China.

Ok lets see.

Can you provide a reference where Nehru talks about Nuclear bomb and not Nuclear power.

India achieved its bomb in 1972.Did Pakistan had a bomb then?No?1 year before that India had successfully routed the Pakistan army,so was PAkistan a threat at that time.NO.CIA estimated that India had about 10 bombs in 1989.almost 9 years before Pakistan even tested theirs.So yes it was for China,because they were already a Nuclear power then.

 

[Gattuso]

Ok lets see.

Can you provide a reference where Nehru talks about Nuclear bomb and not Nuclear power.

India achieved its bomb in 1972.Did Pakistan had a bomb then?No?1 year before that India had successfully routed the Pakistan army,so was PAkistan a threat at that time.NO.CIA estimated that India had about 10 bombs in 1989.almost 9 years before Pakistan even tested theirs.So yes it was for China,because they were already a Nuclear power then.

Nehru did talk about the nucelar bomb..he started the programme off for us.

And very wise words too..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawaharlal_Nehru

Nehru envisioned the developing of nuclear weapons and established the Atomic Energy Commission of India (AEC) in 1948.[28] Nehru also called Dr. Homi J. Bhabha, a nuclear physicist, who was entrusted with complete authority over all nuclear related affairs and programs and answered only to Nehru himself.[28] Indian nuclear policy was set by unwritten personal understanding between Nehru and Bhabha.[28] Nehru famously said to Bhabha, "Professor Bhabha take care of Physics, leave international relation to me".[28] From the outset in 1948, Nehru had high ambition to developed this program to stand against the industrialized states and the basis of this program was to establish an Indian nuclear weapons capability as part of India's regional superiority to other South-Asian states, most particularly Pakistan.[28]

Nehru also told Bhabha, later it was told by Bhabha to Raja Rammanna that,

 

[Qelic]

Iran has no enemies unlike pakistan. Pakistan has better air force, military then iran and better missiles.

lul What ? Iran has half of world as its enemy .... Qatar , KSA , UAE , Kuwait , Jordan , Israel , Egypt , Azerbican , US , UK , France and every other poodle out there is anti Iran for last 30 years ... It faced an alliance of 21 countries in an almost decade long war ... that too Alone ! yet it successfully defended against the arabi Invasion then even went on launching the Counter invasion .... Same arrogant Arabis were offering the cease fire in 1983 ....


I never like to compare Iran with Pakistan .... but since u brought it up..... We can compare in details if u like ... Now Please tell me How Pakistan has better Missiles , and Military than Iran ? ... I am very eagerly waiting for ur reply ... because as i said we can compare in details ...

 

[shan]

Nehru also believed in "hindi chini bhai bhai"... that reached its crescendo in 1962.
We don't need nukes to have an advantage over Pak..conventionally the equation is strongly tilted in our favour mainly because of our size. Pak on the other hand needs nukes to have a deterrent over us.

If you look through enough of internet..you'd get equally crazy theories and their proponents - 911 inside job, NASA moon mission was a fake, Aliens built the egyptian pyramids etc.

There are definitely loonies in the RSS who may have such dreams, there are outliers in every country. (Ghazwa e Hind ? ). Aren;t there ppl in Pak who think they can take on the USA/NATO and win ? - Noone takes them seriously. why would you guys take our loonies so seriously ?

Yes lets ignore BJP,VHP and RSS, what influence does they have in India? Ofcourse apart from currently being 2nd biggest party and were in power not long ago.

"Akhand Bharat Undivided India is an irredentist call to include Pakistan and Bangladesh into India to form a Hindu Rashtra raised by mainstream Indian political organization Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).[1][2][3] Maps of Akhand Bharat are circulated showing the sovereign countries of Pakistan and Bangladesh as part of India.[2] Reclaiming the "Hindudom" of Akhand Bharat was a big reason behind the demolition of Babri Masjid,[1][4] which caused the death of at least 2,000 people in 1992.[5] Formation of an Akhand Bharat is ideologically connected with the ideas of sangathan (Hindu unity) and shuddhi (purification).[3]·"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undivided_India

But lets keep living in denial as you guys perfectly do when come here.

"From the outset in 1948, Nehru had high ambition to developed this program to stand against the industrialized states and the basis of this program was to establish an Indian nuclear weapons capability as part of India's regional superiority to other South-Asian states, most particularly Pakistan."

Nehru said this in 1948.

"We must have the capability. We should first prove ourselves and then talk of Gandhi, non-violence and a world without nuclear weapons.

But you said he was talking about nuclear power not weapons ? )

While in Pakistan few lunatics dream about taking over India but not those who are in power. India always had advantge of being 7 times bigger in population and resources so for them Pakistan never was a threat, its other way around. Which is now over because of nuclear weapons so hopefully Hindutvas doesnt get wrong idea. It was not posible even without nukes but now there is no chance.

And there are many forums where Indans discuss this, here is what i found.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...nification-time-we-started-contemplating.html

 

[Qelic]

The good news is India is capable of building its own arsenal. Hopefully we will stop all the imports and start building our war machines before 2020.

dont take it as an offense ... but i disagree with u .... Take LCA fighter jet project for example , u guys spent almost 3 decades on it and the aircraft is still not into production yet Indian AF is buying expensive jets from west and Russia ... LCA was a nice jet ( technically speaking ) but seems like it never won the hearts of IAF ... Kaveri engine also hasnt come into production ....

Another example is Arjun MBT ... started in 1972 i guess and failed to form the backbone of Indian Armour as it still buys T-90s ....

I am not criticizing i m just giving an opinion ...

some 30 years ago we were same ... When world was flying , mig-19s , F-86 Sabre jets and F-104 Star-fighters we were flying 4th generation F-14 .... War took us 20 years back and throughout 90s Iranian Military was merely a large group of extremist militias ... in last 12 years we have improved ourselves taking strides in local development that now we r the Strongest Muslim Force ( along with turkiye ) ...

point is local development is very important because u dont know what future holds for u ...

 

[Gattuso]

"From the outset in 1948, Nehru had high ambition to developed this program to stand against the industrialized states and the basis of this program was to establish an Indian nuclear weapons capability as part of India's regional superiority to other South-Asian states, most particularly Pakistan."

Nehru said this in 1948.

"We must have the capability. We should first prove ourselves and then talk of Gandhi, non-violence and a world without nuclear weapons.

But you said he was talking about nuclear power not weapons ? )

Errr..I never denied the fact that Nehru wanted us to have nuclear weapons. Infact I argued for it.. Please scroll up again

All you have to pay attention to are the details.. from the 1940s through to 1960s till the China war, there was not such a huge difference in conventional capability between Ind and Pak. that plus the "China friend" policy is what was interpreted as Nehru seeking nuclear weapons is obviously to gain the upper hand in the subcontinent.

By the time we got to Pokhran in the late 90s the conventional difference was fairly telling..and that remains so till today as has been admitted by Pak many times. We don't need nukes for pak... but obviously we will retaliate if struck. And I think nuclear weapons will never be used to attack anyone anywhere in the globe in our lifetime atleast.

In this day and age when Saddam got his **** beaten back for a misadventure in Kuwait - by everyone in the world !, if you are paranoid about India annexing Pak and Bangladesh. I really don't know what more can be said... the days of invasion and annexation is long gone my friend. breath easy

 

[Gattuso]

dont take it as an offense ... but i disagree with u .... Take LCA fighter jet project for example , u guys spent almost 3 decades on it and the aircraft is still not into production yet Indian AF is buying expensive jets from west and Russia ...

Another example is Arjun MBT ... started in 1972 i guess and failed to form the backbone of Indian Armour as it still buys T-90s ....

I am not criticizing i m just giving an opinion ...

some 30 years ago we were same ... When world was flying , mig-19s , F-86 Sabre jets and F-104 Star-fighters we were flying 4th generation F-14 .... War took us 20 years back and throughout 90s Iranian Military was merely a large group of extremist militias ... in last 12 years we have improved ourselves taking strides in local development that now we r the Strongest Muslim Force ( along with turkiye ) ...

point is local development is very important because u dont know what future holds for u ...

Agree with the post.

We are far too dependent on the global weapons market..our indigenous attempts have had limited success. Would love to see any move in that direction..but don't foresee significant resutls for the next 20 years atleast.

 

[cricketjoshila]

dont take it as an offense ... but i disagree with u .... Take LCA fighter jet project for example , u guys spent almost 3 decades on it and the aircraft is still not into production yet Indian AF is buying expensive jets from west and Russia ... LCA was a nice jet ( technically speaking ) but seems like it never won the hearts of IAF ... Kaveri engine also hasnt come into production ....

Another example is Arjun MBT ... started in 1972 i guess and failed to form the backbone of Indian Armour as it still buys T-90s ....

I am not criticizing i m just giving an opinion ...

some 30 years ago we were same ... When world was flying , mig-19s , F-86 Sabre jets and F-104 Star-fighters we were flying 4th generation F-14 .... War took us 20 years back and throughout 90s Iranian Military was merely a large group of extremist militias ... in last 12 years we have improved ourselves taking strides in local development that now we r the Strongest Muslim Force ( along with turkiye ) ...

point is local development is very important because u dont know what future holds for u ...

Hmmm last time i checked many Iranian weapons are of Russian or Chinese origin.And there are reports that they are copies of Russian or Chinese weapons.

What Engine do Iranian fighters use?Are they anywhere near 4.5gen fighters?

What generation are the tanks?

India actually can buy ,Iran actually cant buy.The strength of Iranian weapons etc has never been tested.

So actually you are comparing two different nations with no similarities.

India has 5000+k missiles.Nuclear weapons.Nuclear Submarine.Aircraft carriers all indigeniously developed.

 

[Amar786]

lul What ? Iran has half of world as its enemy .... Qatar , KSA , UAE , Kuwait , Jordan , Israel , Egypt , Azerbican , US , UK , France and every other poodle out there is anti Iran for last 30 years ... It faced an alliance of 21 countries in an almost decade long war ... that too Alone ! yet it successfully defended against the arabi Invasion then even went on launching the Counter invasion .... Same arrogant Arabis were offering the cease fire in 1983 ....


I never like to compare Iran with Pakistan .... but since u brought it up..... We can compare in details if u like ... Now Please tell me How Pakistan has better Missiles , and Military than Iran ? ... I am very eagerly waiting for ur reply ... because as i said we can compare in details ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEyX7FQqIHQ

Watch this video pakistan had no missile to hit israel but still israel had no courage to hit pakistans nuclear sites and on the other hand iran has thousands of missiles to hit israel while israel is threatning iran thats the difference.

Pak gets it's missile from america, europe and chinese and pak has better technology then iran in home made missiles.

Do you know irans policy if any country attacks us we will attack israel do you know who gave that advise to iran it was pakistani ex army chief General Mirza Aslam Beg.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pak-general-told-iran-hit-israel/10355-2-0.html

 

[Qelic]

Agree with the post.

We are far too dependent on the global weapons market..our indigenous attempts have had limited success. Would love to see any move in that direction..but don't foresee significant resutls for the next 20 years atleast.

IMO the problem with the Indian R & D approach is starting from 0 ... all of ur military projects are ur exclusive designs ... LCA , Akash , Arihant , Agni , Dhruv , Naag , Astra etc etc ... Arjun is copy of German leopard btw lol ....

U guys always try to develop something new and even though ur projects have performed good but were not comparable to What India can simply buy from Russia , France , UK etc ....

On the other hand take example of Iran ... Iranian R & D approach was based upon Reverse - Engineering + Improvement + Customization .... We got the MIRV from Russia , then developed it at Home ... We got Naval Cruise Missiles from Russia and China in late 90s and now we have one of the largest Naval Missiles Arsenal that too of domestic production ... We r the only nation in the world other than China to have Anti Ship ballistic Missile capability
( khalije fars Career Killer ) ... Quasi ballistic , Theater ballistic , Cruise , SAM , A2A ... all of our projects were started from reverse engineering ....


P.S I am a Big fan of Indian BrahMos ... Man , that is a fast missile !!!!

 

[shan]

Errr..I never denied the fact that Nehru wanted us to have nuclear weapons. Infact I argued for it.. Please scroll up again

All you have to pay attention to are the details.. from the 1940s through to 1960s till the China war, there was not such a huge difference in conventional capability between Ind and Pak. that plus the "China friend" policy is what was interpreted as Nehru seeking nuclear weapons is obviously to gain the upper hand in the subcontinent.

By the time we got to Pokhran in the late 90s the conventional difference was fairly telling..and that remains so till today as has been admitted by Pak many times. We don't need nukes for pak... but obviously we will retaliate if struck. And I think nuclear weapons will never be used to attack anyone anywhere in the globe in our lifetime atleast.

In this day and age when Saddam got his **** beaten back for a misadventure in Kuwait - by everyone in the world !, if you are paranoid about India annexing Pak and Bangladesh. I really don't know what more can be said... the days of invasion and annexation is long gone my friend. breath easy

So you ignored my half post where i proved you wrong about Akhand Bharat and Indian parties. Actually India had bigger advantge even then in fact only after Pak got nukes that difference was narrowed. 71 war not posible if Pakistan had nukes then. Infact only after 71 war Pakistan got serious about nukes because it was clear India only needed another oportunity.

And no im not at all worried about India taking over Pakistan. Pakistan army is not lallu panju but this doesnt change the fact that political parties in India dream about it. India will get powerfull and so will Pakistan, the difference will always be there but its not like Pak will be stuck in 2012 economically and military.

Pakistan economic growth has been better then India must of the years since independence and with it per capita income. Only recently its changed because of war on terror and must importantly energy crisis which is temporary, because of it Pakistan keep losins 3-4% GDP growth every year.

 

[Gattuso]

So you ignored my half post where i proved you wrong about Akhand Bharat and Indian parties. Actually India had bigger advantge even then in fact only after Pak got nukes that difference was narrowed. 71 war not posible if Pakistan had nukes then. Infact only after 71 war Pakistan got serious about nukes because it was clear India only needed another oportunity.

There are elements in RSS and BJP who are extremely aggressive I agree, even they use that propoganda only as a way of swaying religeous votes (they've badly failed in it if you look at the recent record).

Let me clear the air on that :

This ridiculous Akhand Bharat has never been on any national party's election manifesto. They'd probably be laughed off as we have enough internal problems to worry about.

The last time BJP were in power they meekly exchanged terrorists for hostages at Kandahar. They couldn't push an operation in freakin Afghanistan and you think they are ruthless enough to roll into Pak and Bangladesh ? that somehow doesn't smell Akhand Bharat-esque to me.

Even if RSS/BJP wins seats..the political scenario is such that noone gets absolute majority..they work in a coalition where we have politicians like Digvijay singh who argues for terrorist scum who should have got the rope a long time ago.

It is the first time I am discussing it at such a length with anyone in my life. Try speaking to Indians you know and see what they think of it.

 

[Qelic]

Hmmm last time i checked many Iranian weapons are of Russian or Chinese origin.And there are reports that they are copies of Russian or Chinese weapons.

Yeah and that was my point too .Our R & D is based upon Reverse engineering and then improvement ... From reverse Engineered Cobra attack Helis to Reverse engineered Submarines to reverse engineered Fighter Jet ....


What Engine do Iranian fighters use?Are they anywhere near 4.5gen fighters?

... every fighter aircraft in this world use the specific Engine designed for it .... Iranian Fighters use engines that r designed for them by their makers ... Iran btw has successfully Reverse engineered the J-85 Turbofans ... Iran also produces Mini turbo jets ( tolue series ) and Turbo fan for its cruise missiles and drone/UAV ... Iran also procues heavier powerplants for its space launching vehicles .... tell me if u want pics ... Iran requested Russia for R-5000 turbofans to power its local Semi Stealth Shfagh Fighter jet but pressure from US stopped the deal ... Now khawaja naseer toosi university Researchers is assigned to produce a local variant ... ppl suspect that russia has supplied the blue prints behind the doors just like they have helped us in our missile program ... Same university Scientists also successfully reverse engineered the J-79 and J-85 turbojets before ....

What generation are the tanks?

Locally produced Zolfighar 3 is third Generation . We also locally produce T-72S and Tosan light tank ( both reverse engineered improved versions )

The strength of Iranian weapons etc has never been tested.


Same can be said abt any other state including India


So actually you are comparing two different nations with no similarities.

I am not comparing any state ... I just compared the R & D approaches ...

.

 

[Gattuso]

P.S I am a Big fan of Indian BrahMos ... Man , that is a fast missile !!!!

That will **** off the Russians

It was a joint thing between India- Russia .. plenty of tech from Russian 'Moskit' missile went into it.

 

[shan]

Iran is not developing any nukes ... if we wanted to then we would already have ...

Talking of Missiles , among muslim nations , Iran has the longest range strike capability with BM-25 , Shahab 3B and Ghadr 110 , Sejjil 2 . It is also the only Muslim state to have the Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle MIRV strike

While Safir I , II , Simorgh Space Launching Vehicles SLV can be converted into ICBM anytime by employing a re-entry vehicle

Only muslim nation with MIRV for a time being because Pakistan is already developing one to use it with Shaheen II. Iran is developing nukes otherwise they could have clearly showed the world that they are not. Enough evidence is there that they are building one.

Pakistani airforce is better then Iranian because of advance F-16 fighters. Even with more money one cant simply build these things better. Western nations are decades ahead of every one else, thats why Indian Rafael will be better then China's. Another exemply is F-22 which was developed in 80s, but still many decades ahead of other countries air crafts.

Missile technology is different since no one will sell you anything of that level, otherwise India could have been on par with China already.

And at the moment Iran doesnt have anything comparable to Babur Cruise missile of Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

.

You know reverse engineering is illegal.India doesnt do it.Why?If we illegally reverse engineer something then we are in violation of laws and treaties which mean we may be denied in future.

Iran is already being denied.So yes they can go ahead and reverse engineer.

Thats why i stated,you are comparing to different states.

 

[Qelic]

Watch this video pakistan had no missile to hit israel but still israel had no courage to hit pakistans nuclear sites and on the other hand iran has thousands of missiles to hit israel while israel is threatning iran thats the difference.

From where exactly have u got the idea that Israel and pakistan are enemies ? ... is pakistan even a stake holder in the Israeli zone of influence ?


Pak gets it's missile from america, europe and chinese and pak has better technology then iran in home made missiles.

Lol what ?

by saying that Pak gets its missiles from US , EU and China u have just humiliated the Pakistani scientists because last time i checked NESCOM claims that they develop tech. indigenously ... ( in case u know what NESCOM is )

and again Please tell me the technical reasons how pakistani Missiles r better than iran ... By technical reasons i mean , Ranges , Launching platforms , Guidance , MIRV , Theater and Quasi strike capability ...

believe me i really want to go into details now but i want you to start it since u claimed something for which u havnt yet been able to come up with any technical evidence , proof ...

.....

 

[cricketjoshila]

Only muslim nation with MIRV for a time being because Pakistan is already developing one to use it with Shaheen II. Iran is developing nukes otherwise they could have clearly showed the world that they are not. Enough evidence is there that they are building one.

Pakistani airforce is better then Iranian because of advance F-16 fighters. Even with more money one cant simply build these things better. Western nations are decades ahead of every one else, thats why Indian Rafael will be better then China's. Another exemply is F-22 which was developed in 80s, but still many decades ahead of other countries air crafts.

Missile technology is different since no one will sell you anything of that level, otherwise India could have been on par with China already.

Actually you are right.I remember reading a Chinese generals statement.he said we cant technologically match them so we will have the numerical superiority.

Remember apart from the J20 which is yet to be produced,the most advanced Chinese jet is the Su 30MKM.

France USA Russia UK make far more advanced weapons and reliable also.Because they have the experience of many many many more years than India.Pakistan or Iran

 

[Qelic]

You know reverse engineering is illegal.India doesnt do it.Why?If we illegally reverse engineer something then we are in violation of laws and treaties which mean we may be denied in future.

technically wrong again ... Iran doesnt reverse engineer as it is ... It improves and customizes ... see Cobra helis for example ... the study resulted into Low RCS Shahed 285 which turned out to be a different thing .... there is no margin for any lawsuit ...

Iran is already being denied.So yes they can go ahead and reverse engineer.

Yeah ... thats what we do ... and we do it very successfully ...

Thats why i stated,you are comparing to different states.

Again ... I compared the R & D approaches not states

.

 

[Gattuso]

I have my doubts about reverse engineering Aircraft Engines... it is more metallurgy than reverse-engineerable components. Which is why China struggled for so many decades and kept using Russian engines for a long time, while they could successfully rip-off everything else.

 

[speed]

.....

actually pakistan is a threat to isreal as it is the only muslim nuclear power.

the hindus have the bomb
the jews have it
the christians have it
and the muslims have it

the biggest threat to Zionism is Islam....whilst the other 3 religions tend to collaborate with each other.

 

[shan]

There are elements in RSS and BJP who are extremely aggressive I agree, even they use that propoganda only as a way of swaying religeous votes (they've badly failed in it if you look at the recent record).

Let me clear the air on that :

This ridiculous Akhand Bharat has never been on any national party's election manifesto. They'd probably be laughed off as we have enough internal problems to worry about.

The last time BJP were in power they meekly exchanged terrorists for hostages at Kandahar. They couldn't push an operation in freakin Afghanistan and you think they are ruthless enough to roll into Pak and Bangladesh ? that somehow doesn't smell Akhand Bharat-esque to me.

Even if RSS/BJP wins seats..the political scenario is such that noone gets absolute majority..they work in a coalition where we have politicians like Digvijay singh who argues for terrorist scum who should have got the rope a long time ago.

It is the first time I am discussing it at such a length with anyone in my life. Try speaking to Indians you know and see what they think of it.

I agree that idea is ridiculous of Akhand Bharat or Pakistan radio in Dehli. I was just saying that the idea is there and Indian extremist parties take advantge of it. Ofcourse they cant push that idea on national level at the moment because it will be political sucide but thats another thing.

 

[Gattuso]

I agree that idea is ridiculous of Akhand Bharat or Pakistan radio in Dehli. I was just saying that the idea is there and Indian extremist parties take advantge of it. Ofcourse they cant push that idea on national level at the moment because it will be political sucide but thats another thing.

exactly. extremist parties will pbly get overthrown by the people/army if they order them to annex other countries.
Forget bollywood movies...we don't have such big hearts

 

[shan]

Actually you are right.I remember reading a Chinese generals statement.he said we cant technologically match them so we will have the numerical superiority.

Remember apart from the J20 which is yet to be produced,the most advanced Chinese jet is the Su 30MKM.

France USA Russia UK make far more advanced weapons and reliable also.Because they have the experience of many many many more years than India.Pakistan or Iran

Ofcourse they do other wise why Pakistan/India will buy them. Even China with its huge economy cant get there yet who knows when it will get there if it ever does.

Because multi cultural western countries like USA always have advantge of having best in the world working for them. I remember Indian origin scientest was arrested for treason because he tried to sell Stealth Technology secrets to China which he himself helped develop. I read this 5-6 years ago so there maybe still link somewhere of this news.

 

[Qelic]

Only muslim nation with MIRV for a time being because Pakistan is already developing one to use it with Shaheen II.

So far iran is the only muslim nation with MIRV capability ... fajr 3 , Shahab3B can carry 3 warheads and 1400 Cluster bombs in one missile ... A single strike can take out an Entire town and According to US study Iran has some 500-600 Shahab 3 ... production capacity of 70 Missiles per year !!!!

Not just MIRV , Iran also is the only 2nd nation in world to be equipped with Quasi Anti Carrier Ballistic Missile ... launched from a tri rail launcher ... Other nation is China ... though Chinese system has more range ....

and Good luck to pakistan with Shaheen II development ...

Iran is developing nukes otherwise they could have clearly showed the world that they are not. Enough evidence is there that they are building one.

Iran provides full transparency to the IAEA inspectors and they agree that Iran hasnt decided to build any ...

btw Russian sources claims that Iran already has 152 mm nuclear Shells which it can deliver through its ballistic and Cruise missiles .. u can search it or ask me for links ...

Also We have one of the worlds largest Chemical warfare as Said By general Tommy franks ... We have large stockpiles of Nerve , G-agents , Tabun (GA) , Sarin , (GB) V-agents , Blood , Choking / Pulmonary , Blister ... at Ghazvin , Esfahan , Damghan , Abu Musa etc ...




Pakistani airforce is better then Iranian because of advance F-16 fighters.

Pakistani airforce lacks BVR and thats its main problem .... Half of the F-16 fleet hasnt gone through any MLU and only fires short range missiles like Aim-9 ... The Mirages and F-7s are 2nd generation aircrafts and lack any BVR ... Out of some 500 aircrafts of PAF only some 50-60 are BVR capable ... On the other hand Iran has 90 Mig-29s , 60 F-14s both upgraded and are equipped with Aim-54 world longest range BVR , R-73 , R-27 , Sejjil Aim23C , fattar ... Even Iranian F-4s r BVR capable with Aim-7E and fattar .... Then there is locally produced Saeghe Jet that can carry Fattar and AA series ..... So IRIAF has 200 + BVR fighters ....

While I agree that IRIAF is not what it used to be but it is still a very solid force .... I can go in further details if u want


Even with more money one cant simply build these things better. Western nations are decades ahead of every one else, thats why Indian Rafael will be better then China's. Another exemply is F-22 which was developed in 80s, but still many decades ahead of other countries air crafts.

Wrong again , French Rafael is in same generation of Chinese J-10 variant and J-Flankers that China has TOT'ed from russia .... 4.5 Generation ... China also is into 5th generation with its Black eagle ...

U r right that US is decade ahead of rest of of the world ....

F-22 is not the only player now ... China has J-20 , Russia has T-50

Talking abt Stealth and Semi Stealth ... Even Turkiye , Korea , Iran , India ... have plans to make Low RCS fighter jets ... Iranian Shafagh is expected to fly in 2013 ... Its a small Low RCS semi stelath design ... u can find its pics in my IRAN thread ...


Missile technology is different since no one will sell you anything of that level, otherwise India could have been on par with China already

.... Countries do sell missiles to other states ... I can give u examples

...

 

[shan]

actually pakistan is a threat to isreal as it is the only muslim nuclear power.

the hindus have the bomb
the jews have it
the christians have it
and the muslims have it

the biggest threat to Zionism is Islam....whilst the other 3 religions tend to collaborate with each other.

Just Pakistan have it not muslims, you are kidding your self if you think Pakistan will use nukes against Israel over other muslims.

 

[speed]

Just Pakistan have it not muslims, you are kidding your self if you think Pakistan will use nukes against Israel over other muslims.

no i did not say pak will nuke isreal, more likely that isreal will nuke a muslim country.

 

[Qelic]

actually pakistan is a threat to isreal as it is the only muslim nuclear power.

the hindus have the bomb
the jews have it
the christians have it
and the muslims have it

the biggest threat to Zionism is Islam....whilst the other 3 religions tend to collaborate with each other.

ok

 

[shan]

Pakistani airforce lacks BVR and thats its main problem .... Half of the F-16 fleet hasnt gone through any MLU and only fires short range missiles like Aim-9 ... The Mirages and F-7s are 2nd generation aircrafts and lack any BVR ... Out of some 500 aircrafts of PAF only some 50-60 are BVR capable ... On the other hand Iran has 90 Mig-29s , 60 F-14s both upgraded and are equipped with Aim-54 world longest range BVR , R-73 , R-27 , Sejjil Aim23C , fattar ... Even Iranian F-4s r BVR capable with Aim-7E and fattar .... Then there is locally produced Saeghe Jet that can carry Fattar and AA series ..... So IRIAF has 200 + BVR fighters ....

While I agree that IRIAF is not what it used to be but it is still a very solid force .... I can go in further details if u want

Pakistan got 500 USA AMRAAM BVR missiles with F-16 these are way way ahead of anything Iranian got. And must of the already old F-16 are going throug MLU and other advance F-16 are also coming all of them capabale of BVR. Pakistan also is buying Chinese SD-10 BVR missiles to use with JF-17.


Wrong again , French Rafael is in same generation of Chinese J-10 variant and J-Flankers that China has TOT'ed from russia .... 4.5 Generation ... China also is into 5th generation with its Black eagle ...

Actually J-10 isnt anywhere near Rafael, being of same generation is not good enough evidence because its 4.5 gen according to China only. Enough non-biased sources in internet about capablities of both. Even China 5th generation may never come close to F-22.

U r right that US is decade ahead of rest of of the world ....

F-22 is not the only player now ... China has J-20 , Russia has T-50

At evidence is there that J-20 and T-50 are still way behind F-22.

Talking abt Stealth and Semi Stealth ... Even Turkiye , Korea , Iran , India ... have plans to make Low RCS fighter jets ... Iranian Shafagh is expected to fly in 2013 ... Its a small Low RCS semi stelath design ... u can find its pics in my IRAN thread ...

Wrong .... Countries do sell missiles to other states ... I can give u examples

...