Greenstorm
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Its a close one between Ind and Eng imo.
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India has shown the world why they are the Number 1 ranked team in Test cricket
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greatest
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Yes, I agree with you, all the team mentioned are average but the way Australians have been playing since the South African tour is just pathetic! They have look mentally weak and lack fighting qualities.
On a Adelaide pitch which is known as Australia's most batting friendly track they were playing at almost 2 per over. Yes, they were without Warner and Smith but still it is their home conditions and all the current Australians might have played dozen domestic games here.
They are so fragile at the moment that most Australian experts have predicted before the series that for the first time Australia start as underdogs at home.
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Ab Fan
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Ranking has to be IMO: -
India
England
New Zealand
South Africa
Australia
Pakistan/ Sri Lanka/ Bangladesh /West Indies(no particular order)
Australia will become a top 2-3 team again once they will have Smith and Warner back. SA loss was disheartening for them because they were going so strong. They were competitive in India while past losses in UAE and SL happened when they were playing some FTBs who only performed in Australia.
SA are at their weakest in last many years I have seen. That home win against Australia was great but things aren't the same for them. Should do well outside Asia but might even struggle to win a match against lowly ranked Asian teams in Asia.
India
England
New Zealand
South Africa
Australia
Pakistan/ Sri Lanka/ Bangladesh /West Indies(no particular order)
Australia will become a top 2-3 team again once they will have Smith and Warner back. SA loss was disheartening for them because they were going so strong. They were competitive in India while past losses in UAE and SL happened when they were playing some FTBs who only performed in Australia.
SA are at their weakest in last many years I have seen. That home win against Australia was great but things aren't the same for them. Should do well outside Asia but might even struggle to win a match against lowly ranked Asian teams in Asia.
Amjid Javed
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India should have no excuses for not beating Australia here in this series now they have taken an early 1-0 lead.
Aussies weak should be exposed all series.
Aussies weak should be exposed all series.
greatest
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You forgot that England won a Test series in India 2-1. And what is India's performance on their last tours to England, New Zealand, South Africa and Australia. Did not win even draw a series in any of these countries. Yes I do congrat them on winning against low level sides likes SL and W.I in their own turf.
The fact is that currently no team deserves to called number 1. All of them have similar achievement.
Tridibans_16
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That was in 2012. A good 6 years back. If that is the case go more further back and we wn in Eng 2007/ NZ 2009 .
Rankings take into account last 3 years.
WE WON TESTS EVERYWHERE WE WENT! Lost closely fought series in SA . Absolutely destroyed everyone at home.
England failed to win even a SINGLE test in India/ Australia. How are they supposed to be no1? Lost to WI of all people at home. Lost a series to SL at home. Drew with Pak in 2016. So they are way worse at home than India.
Sidilicious
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6 years back? How does a result 6 years back count towards the current ranking. A cycle lasts 4 years - both in terms of ICC ranking, and how many times it takes to play 1 away and home series with each country.
greatest
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Yes, u r right that England win in India was a long time back. So we should discard that. Sorry for mentioning that series!
I have been following cricket for almost 30 years. I will happily accept India as the number 1 team if they win win a series (not solitary test match) in Australia, South Africa or even New Zealand. It's same for other Asian nations, winning a series in all these countries is the benchmark. Likewise it's the same for non Asian teams to be considered great if they win a series in the Sub-Continent. Simple as that!
WhenSultansBowled
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All things considered, IMHO, they are the best side in world as of December 2018.
Hopefully, they'll be clinical in rest of series and should deliver a phainta for ages to Aussies
Hopefully, they'll be clinical in rest of series and should deliver a phainta for ages to Aussies
in_cutter
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If Pak had won today, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] would write an essay about how it was a fluke because this is a weak Aus side hehhehe.
battler
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This is THE best chance for India to win a series down under. If we don't win now don't think we will win in the next few decades by the time test cricket might be dead already.
And if they don't, who according to you should be #1?
greatest
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Seriously, currently no team deserves to called number 1. As I mentioned before Asian teams need to win a series in these three countries especially in England, South Africa & Australia and non-Asian teams need to win in India, Pakistan/U.A.E, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
On current form I will rate England highly. They won against a good Indian side 4-1, remember they went into the series as underdogs and most were predicting an Indian win. Then they clean sweeped Sri Lanka in their own soil, Australia and South Africa failed to even win a test in SL. On the other hand excluding the series win against low ranked W.I at home, India failed to win in England. (4-1) is embarrassing against an English side u were expected to win especially considering the series was played in later part of the season. Then loss in South Africa.
So, England humiliated the number one side at home and clean sweeped SL in ailen conditions which is similar to India winning 3-0 in N.Z. To me Currently England are no.1 but if India wins in Australia then surely India will be no.1.
cricketindiafan
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Nothing less than a series win by 3-0 and not to lose a Test to this weaker Aussie side will show anything.
We have fluffed so many opportunities in SA and Eng from strong positions, that the questions on the number 1 ranking were but natural. Have an opportunity to show we have learned our lessons and will continue to show same level of intensity all through the series as we did in this test.
We have fluffed so many opportunities in SA and Eng from strong positions, that the questions on the number 1 ranking were but natural. Have an opportunity to show we have learned our lessons and will continue to show same level of intensity all through the series as we did in this test.
greatest
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India were no.1 going against England in that series. They were not unlucky, a loss is a loss. Good teams win games from these positions. So, even Pakistan was unlucky against Australia in Brisbane and were unlucky to screw up in the last session at MCG.
"if ifs and ands were pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers' hands"
cricketindiafan
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More like India winning in WI.
While we are on comparisons, Eng also drew vs Pakistan at home and lost a home test to WI, lost to NZ and Aus away from home. Thats like India drawing with NZ in India, losing a test to BD in India and losing in SL and UAE.
BreadPakoda
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Shame that we missed Bhuvneshwar and Bumrah’s services in England.
Amjid Javed
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BlackShadow
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Unlucky to lose 4-1?)
- Best bowlers injured.
- Lost all the tosses.
- Lost matches that should have been won.
The English tour could have gone either way, just that everything that could go wrong for India went wrong.
The ICC ranking system is quite well thought out and objective. That ranking is far better than the subjective ranking of some biased fans. This ranking is based upon performance of the last three years as well as upon the strength of the opposition. The current year performance gets full weightage, performance of previous year gets two-third weightage and performance of two years ago gets one third weightage.
Performance older than that are not considered. That way the ICC ranking system is as good as it could be. In fact, ranking of teams in other sports is also done in the same way.
Subjective of biases fans have no meaning. These fans often take twenty years old performance to prove the superiority of one team over other. That is no ranking. Look at the ranking. It says that India are the number one test team.
Performance older than that are not considered. That way the ICC ranking system is as good as it could be. In fact, ranking of teams in other sports is also done in the same way.
Subjective of biases fans have no meaning. These fans often take twenty years old performance to prove the superiority of one team over other. That is no ranking. Look at the ranking. It says that India are the number one test team.
greatest
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Nice points... but, I don't agree it's like India winning in W.I because despite being a pathetic side S.L play well at home especially against non-Asian teams and have recently clean sweep South Africa & Australia. So a non-Asian team like England winning there means a lot. On the other hand W.I are hopeless even at home.
So it looks like currently no team deserves to be no.1.
greatest
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Number 1 team does not make these excuses. Even Australia can make an excuse that Smith and Warner were absent and Paine was unlucky to loose the toss or even Sarfraz can blame the two defeats against N.Z on loosing the tosses and batting last on the 5th day, otherwise it might have been 3-0 to Pakistan.
greatest
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I liked the ratings they had in the late 90's. I think it was Copper & Lybrand ratings or something. A team got max points if it won a series, extra points if it was against a top rated team and double points were awarded if it was was an overseas series win. Simple!
greatest
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And just to add, the ratings used to take into consideration the last home and away series played. I remember in the late 90's Australia used to be no.1, closely followed by South Africa and Pakistan was no.3, although there was a big gap between South Africa and Pakistan.
BlackShadow
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It isn't an excuse to say that the series was closer than scoreline suggests.
BlackShadow
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Precisely. That's was as big a blow as Australia losing Smith and Warner.
Shandarchowka
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By winning against a toothless Australia-Z team? I can only laugh.
BlackShadow
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This toothless Aussie side would still spank your talented lot 10/10 in Australia.
Remember them drawing a Test in UAE even with Hazlewood and Cummins missing? I had a good laugh.
Titan24
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Definitely top performance.
Atleast they are competing overseas well and are ruthless at home. Consistency of this Indian team is really appreciable. Whenever they show up you expect a certain standard of performance more often then not, irrespective of winning and losing team performs upto its optimum level 95% of the time.
Atleast they are competing overseas well and are ruthless at home. Consistency of this Indian team is really appreciable. Whenever they show up you expect a certain standard of performance more often then not, irrespective of winning and losing team performs upto its optimum level 95% of the time.
Rightarmfast
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What you are forgetting is, that for the 1st 2 tests, India played without their premier bowlers. Bhuvi and Bumrah were not available. Bhuvi, for us was the ideal bowler for England but we didnt have his services. Not to mention we lost all the tosses, a factor which means a lot these days.
So it should not be taken as an excuse, however one must consider that Indians werent full strength during that tour at all.
Now, I am not even mentioning that Md Shami was in a lot of personal turmoil, due to his wife filing a legal case against him and him being on the verge of getting jailed. It affected his performance.
Nothing can be an excuse, but facts are facts. A full strength Indian team with a better luck, anything could have happened. Its not that we lost the series badly. In almost all the matches, we were neck to neck against England!
Maybe you should think again.
greatest
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Yes, I agree with you! Injuries and absence of key players do make a difference! I hope next time when India tours England we get to see a full strength Indian team and I also hope Australia will have sorted out their problems and will have Smith and Warner back when they next play against India. I would love to see a competitive India Australia series especially in Australia.
Rightarmfast
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Definitely. Had India not been travelling, and been playing at their home, rest assured no excuses would have come. You are equating Australia's loss with India's, which is a travelling team. You expect the hosts to be comfortable in their own den, come what may. This is elementary.
England were playing at home, and so are Aussies. Its the indian team which is at a disadvantage since its travelling. I think you need to sort out your filters you put on India's performances!
cricketworm
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Could have easily be 3-2 in India's favour. Very small margin. England held their nerve. Massive improvement from previous two tours, despite the final result.
RainMan_
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Excuse me. Is this supposed to be a joke?
India have shown that they r true no 1 side in test by beating this Australia C team (a team that just got smashed in SA, got whitewashed in SL and drew in Bangladesh)? Is that what op is trying to imply here? Haha.........
Look, I don't know wana take anything away from India here. They have exploited the situation really well and salvaged a test victory against this depleted Australian side on a turning pitch. I wanna congratulate them for that.
But does that change the fact that India is the weakest no 1 side in the history of cricket and they r only no 1 test team because they play a plethora of tests on doctored wickets at home ? Off course not. When Pak became no 1 they drew in England. When SA became no 1 they drew in UAE, IND, and won in SL and Australia. When Australia were no 1 they won almost everywhere.
Then compare these performances with the away performances of current no 1 test team. They got destroyed in NZ, got absolutely scolded by SA in SA (even though first couple of tests in that series were played on spin friendly wickets), then absolutely got annihilated in England and lost the series 4-1.
So, 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 4-1, were the end results of the away test series that India have played in overseas condition in last 3/4 years. How is that result different from what Pak or SL did in the same period. But suddenly, we r hearing this hilarious claim that India is the real no 1 because on a dust bowl, they have beaten a depleted Australia who r on par with SL. Lol.
India have shown that they r true no 1 side in test by beating this Australia C team (a team that just got smashed in SA, got whitewashed in SL and drew in Bangladesh)? Is that what op is trying to imply here? Haha.........
Look, I don't know wana take anything away from India here. They have exploited the situation really well and salvaged a test victory against this depleted Australian side on a turning pitch. I wanna congratulate them for that.
But does that change the fact that India is the weakest no 1 side in the history of cricket and they r only no 1 test team because they play a plethora of tests on doctored wickets at home ? Off course not. When Pak became no 1 they drew in England. When SA became no 1 they drew in UAE, IND, and won in SL and Australia. When Australia were no 1 they won almost everywhere.
Then compare these performances with the away performances of current no 1 test team. They got destroyed in NZ, got absolutely scolded by SA in SA (even though first couple of tests in that series were played on spin friendly wickets), then absolutely got annihilated in England and lost the series 4-1.
So, 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 4-1, were the end results of the away test series that India have played in overseas condition in last 3/4 years. How is that result different from what Pak or SL did in the same period. But suddenly, we r hearing this hilarious claim that India is the real no 1 because on a dust bowl, they have beaten a depleted Australia who r on par with SL. Lol.
Varun
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We will find a way to lose this series 1-3.
Just wait and watch.
Just wait and watch.
No, seriously your argument is illogical. In a group of teams their always will be a #1 team, or possibly more than one team tied as #1. The fact that you don't offer an alternative #1 team shows that you don't have a good argument against India being the #1 team.
After saying "Seriously, currently no team deserves to called number 1" you continue with "To me Currently England are no.1". You conveniently forget to mention that England was roundly thrashed 4-0 in India, which to my understanding is a worse defeat than 4-1. And that England could not beat the #7 team Pakistan at home in a Test series. Or that England actually lost a Test at home to the #8 team WI.
The ICC Test rankings do not suffer for your blind spots, and take into account every Test. India is ahead of England, win or lose in Australia.
Buffet
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Bold part is simply not true. Same Aus team minus two gun bowlers fought very hard in UAE to bat for 140+ overs. I don't recall Aus doing that in recent years. Here they fought till the end. They may lack batting skill to dominate, but I won't say that they don't fight.
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Stop posting personal and nonsense stuff on this forums. Have deleted whole bunch of posts here.
greatest
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To me currently England although not no. 1 is a better team than India. I don't believe much in ratings and no.1 but if u want to have a no.1 then it's England at the moment. If there was an Ashes currently in Australia, England would have trashed Australia badly not just with only 31 runs!
England's last two series have been 3-0 away win in SL and 4-1 trashing to so called world no.1.
India minus the predictable home series win against W.I have lost to England and S.A. Two losses to India and two wins for England which includes an away clean sweep. You Indians can't even win a series in N.Z.
India are world number one because they are unbeatable at home and competitive abroad. India have played four series abroad (excluding the ongoing series in Australia) in the last three years (the period that is considered for ICC ranking). India have won seven tests abroad during this period. India won two series abroad and lost two series abroad.
No other team has a better away record than India during this period. South Africa also played four away series during this period and they are also won two series and lost two series- like India. But they had worse home record than India
England played six series during this period. They won two series, lost three series and drew one.
Other test teams have worse away records.
No other team has a better away record than India during this period. South Africa also played four away series during this period and they are also won two series and lost two series- like India. But they had worse home record than India
England played six series during this period. They won two series, lost three series and drew one.
Other test teams have worse away records.
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So India's home wins (including 4-0 against England) are "predictable" while England's home wins (including a 4-1 win against India) are "trashing to so called world no.1".
Rankings are not determined by the last 2 series played, or even the last 4 series played. A true thrashing is when the opponents score 759/7d like India did against England.
Waste of time debating someone so biased, you can live in your delusional world, I prefer the ICC rankings.
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Smbhayi
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how do you know...? before NZ Uae series everyone predict Pak will win series easily but what happens.. so you can't say what's happens in future, but we can see what happened earlier, so with available data India is deserving no.1...
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=135839]Smbhayi[/MENTION] [MENTION=138492]latecut[/MENTION] First of all, learn about the Ranking system before you argue here.
There are two ranking systems followed in test cricket:
1. ICC's Official Rankings, founded in 2003
2. PP's Real Rankings, founded in 2016.
While India has been the Official No1 since 2016, it was never the Real No1.
Here is the year-wise PP's Real Rankings:
2016 Pakistan
2017 South Africa
2018 England
In 2019, who knows Australia might get to the Real No1 title, once Smith and Warner get back. On the other hand India would have to settle for the Official No1 title.
There are two ranking systems followed in test cricket:
1. ICC's Official Rankings, founded in 2003
2. PP's Real Rankings, founded in 2016.
While India has been the Official No1 since 2016, it was never the Real No1.
Here is the year-wise PP's Real Rankings:
2016 Pakistan
2017 South Africa
2018 England
In 2019, who knows Australia might get to the Real No1 title, once Smith and Warner get back. On the other hand India would have to settle for the Official No1 title.
Harsh, very harsh. But I guess we need to accept the way the real world works.
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Hasan123
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India deserve the number 1 ranking. Yes it's because of dominating at home but other teams have home games , so if it's to easy to dominate at home why can't other teams do it?
Credit to India. They deserve the number 1 ranking.
Credit to India. They deserve the number 1 ranking.
Well said. If only some of the posters here understand this simple point..
Isn't it a 4 year cycle? I remember reading it is a 4 year period.
NoBallZombie
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India IS the de-facto #1 test team in the world. There are no two ways about it. We can all argue that they play most of their matches at home but what is stopping other teams from doing the same?
While everyone (or most people) would agree they are not as good as Aussies of the 90s or the Windies of 80s, India IS definitely the team to beat in this era. I am not sure teams get as much satisfaction beating any other team as they get beating India (home or abroad), so kudos to this team and congrats to the Indians on this forum on a good win!
While everyone (or most people) would agree they are not as good as Aussies of the 90s or the Windies of 80s, India IS definitely the team to beat in this era. I am not sure teams get as much satisfaction beating any other team as they get beating India (home or abroad), so kudos to this team and congrats to the Indians on this forum on a good win!
From where do you get the idea that India plays most of it's matches at home?
In the last 4 years they have played equal number of matches home and away (23 each), just like the other teams do.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2014;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
This!
But to answer your question for India only matches played in eng sa,aus,nz are considered away matches lol
But to answer your question for India only matches played in eng sa,aus,nz are considered away matches lol
Robert
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No such thing as luck. Not over five days. One team plays better than othe other.
Nobody is dominant now in the way that WI were from 1976-95 or the Aussies were from 1995-2006.
And if India wins against these teams in their home then these teams are described as , second string, third string, the weakest in their history etc.
Nikhil_cric
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Sorry Rob but you are wrong here. There is a thing as luck when a toss is used to determine who can take maximum advantage of the given conditions . In the last 4 years alone, toss has been a huge factor in determining outcomes of matches. Which is why the debate about eliminating toss completely was prevalent this year.
Robert
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Prevalent among Indians who did not expect to lose 1-4 to a weak England side, perhaps. If India were really good they would not be affected by coin toss. It didn’t matter to WI in their great years.
In England where the weather is so changeable it’s a lottery anyway. So many insertions have backfired.
Sidilicious
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No point finding excuses. Toss or not, a loss is a loss. England and SA were the better team in the respective series. 4-1 might not be the true reflection of how we lost 2 close games, but that doesn’t change the fact that England were the better team.
Nikhil_cric
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Actually it was faf du plessis who wanted to abandon the toss after getting whitewashed in Sri Lanka. Nobody is claiming that this is a great side or comparing it to great teams of the past.
Toss matters in England too. Batting first is an advantage in more than 80% of tests played and fourth innings chases are difficult everywhere . Only in exceptional circumstances is it an advantage to bowl first.
The point was a lot of posters were cashing India as a poor travelling team for losing 4-1 in England despite losing 5 tosses on the trot when some other teams end up losing 4-0 in both India and Australia despite winning 4 out of 5 tosses.
Nikhil_cric
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Not an excuse. A 4-1 loss is as comprehensive as it gets. But to suggest that the rankings are not true simply because India haven't won abroad is nonsense. And to say that toss is not a deciding factor is false too. England won 3 tosses in a row in Lanka to win 3-0. Had those gone Lanka 's way , it would have been 2-1 Lanka.
In those 20 yrs the WI Team played 66 tests won 36 tests and lost 9 tests at home
India won 36 of last 51 tests losing only 4 in the last 10 yrs at home.
Lost all 5 tosses and we were without our best swing bowlers Bhuvi and Bumrah. Bumrah was unavailable for first two Test matches, where we lost the initiative.
Robert
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Fair enough on FdP.
You hear the phrase “Good toss to lose” in England because sometimes you don’t know how it will play.
Your last paragraph suggests that the toss is not important in India and Australia- which means that how well the teams play is.
BreadPakoda
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I think he means that both India and pre-ban Australia are good enough to take the toss out of equation at home. Of course, if the touring team loses the toss chances are they face a heavier defeat.
Canford Cliffs
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Wow what a fantastic team India has become, beating teams for fun.
Canford Cliffs
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Playing like the best team on planet green earth.
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Tridibans_16
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No.1 Test Ranking
India, the current no.1 team, will probably feel they have a great chance to solidify the spot till 2021 atleast. With the main challenger England losing 0-2 (with 1 more match to go) to the no.8 ranked WI, even a 5-0 Ashes whitewash will not be enough to overtake India.
Next series for India will be the Windies. With the current pace battery on display, I believe WI can win the series. India's batting is nothing great. But if we manage to win even narrowly, the next assignments will be the home winter against SA. No way we are losing the no.1 rank till next year atleast.
India, the current no.1 team, will probably feel they have a great chance to solidify the spot till 2021 atleast. With the main challenger England losing 0-2 (with 1 more match to go) to the no.8 ranked WI, even a 5-0 Ashes whitewash will not be enough to overtake India.
Next series for India will be the Windies. With the current pace battery on display, I believe WI can win the series. India's batting is nothing great. But if we manage to win even narrowly, the next assignments will be the home winter against SA. No way we are losing the no.1 rank till next year atleast.
Tridibans_16
Tape Ball Captain
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Somany experts here
Better team than India but has a record of 0-10 (yes... 10 losses with a grand total of 0 wins) away from home in India, Australia, WI in the last 2 years. Only won against a minnow SL team.
Tridibans_16
Tape Ball Captain
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Lost in India 0-4
Lost in Aus 0-4
Draw in NZ 1-1
Lost in WI 0-2
Won in SL 3-0
Some record there for England away from home.
Lost in Aus 0-4
Draw in NZ 1-1
Lost in WI 0-2
Won in SL 3-0
Some record there for England away from home.
Such opinions don't say a whole lot for your ability to analyze the game of cricket.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
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England were incredibly lucky with the tosses against India. India could have easily won 4-1 of tosses went their way.
India is still rank 1 team and nobody is even close to dismantle them for few years to come. At home, India is almost invincinle and an undisputed ATG team. Its the SENA tours when some naysayers raise few eyebrows and question - Are they really .....?
With the upcoming NZ series, Indian team has a chance to prove once again why they are a true numero uno team of present era.
With the upcoming NZ series, Indian team has a chance to prove once again why they are a true numero uno team of present era.
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And they do it again
mastimasti
Tape Ball Captain
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Once/if we beat NZ in the WTC final, then we are true test number ones.
The lone Ranger
Tape Ball Regular
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Who is the real number 1 right now?
WengerOut
First Class Captain
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Any team that recently beat India.
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