India is producing the likes of Prithvi Shaw and Shubman Gill whilst Pakistan is producing nothing

[Saj]

Prithvi Shaw at the age of 19:

He already has a Test century and a Test half-century in only 3 Test innings.

He has 8 First-class centuries and 8 fifties and averages over 60 in First-class cricket.

In List-A Shaw has 3 hundreds and 6 fifties and averages over 40.

In T20s his strike-rate is 153.12 and he averages 27.22 with 2 fifties in only 9 innings.


Meanwhile Shubman Gill who is also 19 years old:

He has 2 hundreds and 5 fifties in First-class cricket in only 6 matches with a highest score of 268.

In List-A he has 4 hundreds and 7 fiftes at an average of nearly 48.

In T20 cricket he averages nearly 34 with a strike-rate of 146.04.


Looking at the above numbers, it's clear that these 2 guys will be the mainstays when it comes to India's batting strength for many years to come.

They are obviously batsmen who have the capability to play long innings, as well as cope and perform in the shorter formats. They are already looking like batsmen who could be the complete package.

So why is it that Pakistan is not producing such batsmen? Where is it going wrong? Is the approach wrong, are the priorities wrong? Is it the pitches? Is it the quality of domestic cricket? Is it the coaching? Or is it something else?

 

[KingKhanWC]

1. India has a population nearing 1.2 billion people. In a nation where cricket is the only sport it can raise a lot of funds(due to its size & population) to support it's cricket.

2. Batting has always been the main attraction for Indian young players so they will produce good batsmen going forward.

 

[Rana]

Cricket culture seems to be dying in Pakistan. The coaches are more focussed on technique and longevity at the crease rather than scoring hungry batsmen who want to play positively

 

[PakLFC]

I am sure many people here think Fakhar Zaman and Babar Azam are great players in the making Population difference was the same when we were producing quality players. The PCB is the problem here.

 

[rhony]

Quality of pitches. Just look at the absolute green tops in first class cricket. Sohaib Maqsood and a bunch of cricketers tweeted about it. How can you produce batsmen with those wickets?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Besides Pakistan should be looking at England not India. Cricket isn't even the no.1 sport in England but they produce great players in all positions. Now what Wasim has come from the English set up, hopefully he can put in place a set up similar to England. Trying to be like India is a low aim imo.

 

[Hasan123]

We have to change our domestic cricket and our coaching at grassroots level if we want to produce quality batsmen. To not even produce 1 good batsmen in the last few years other than Babar is very embarssing.

Sri Lanka are called minnows on this forum yet their batting line up is probably better than ours . Mendis,Dickwella,Karunaratne,Chandimal ,and Matthews is a decent batting line up.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Good thread Saj, I relayed your exact sentiments in another thread and funnily enough said it was a crying shame India kept unearthing talents like Prithvi Shaw on a regular basis but Pakistan could not find even one. I feel the issue is unorganised first class cricket culture in other words let's just get by with what we can, no proper batting role models..

 

[Bewal Express]

Play cricket in dry, hot weather on good wickets and we start to produce better players. Our wickets are poor, which help to produce poor players who have no inclination or confidence to play long innings.

 

[topspin]

The root of the problem is the domestic structure and the seniority culture. When Pakistan was making money in the 90s and 2000s, this wasn't reinvested back into Pakistan cricket because after 1992 WC, there hasn't been any progress whatsoever if anything it is getting worse, for instance pitches were not so substandard as they have been in recent years.

To summarise

1. Reduce the playing pool - as mentioned extensively by Markhor's POTW.
2. Limiting no. of veterans in the side - in order to overcome the seniority culture that continues to bring Pakistan down
3. More foreign coaches in NCA from U19 level up to head coach because the Pakistani coaches and ex-players aren't good enough.
4. Flatter wickets with more pace - need batsmen who can play on pitches where they can develop front and more fundamentally back foot game.

At least we don't see the use of the Grays cricket ball like we used too - that was one low quality cricket ball!

 

[Banter]

I think PCB need to have a detailed plan to revamp domestic cricket, along with a concerted effort to schedule regular A tours to other countries. Now the problem is that those tours are also done on reciprocal basis, so Pakistan will struggle to get too many games with the top test teams, but still they should take all the A tours they can get.

The examples above - Gill and Shaw, have already gone on a couple of A tours.

In today's cricket, you cannot get by simply with "raw talent" and expect to be competitive at the international level. Modern cricket demands that the players come to the intl stage after being polished, honed and prepared. PSL is one right step in that direction, but its not enough. In fact, it makes an existing problem worse for Pakistan - the primacy given to sloggers over proper batsmen.

 

[topspin]

PSL also needs to restrict the number 35+ aged players. How can we expect to process talent when there is a 44 year old playing for one of the sides?

 

[gazza619]

Not having international cricket at home for years is also a contributor. It takes away the opportunity from kids to go and watch the stars live and get inspired.

 

[Pete Rose]

No one's looking at the coaching at domestic level. People blame the selectors and captains for not bringing out new guys, but its an indictment for Pakistan domestic cricket if its leading batting giants are khurrum manzoor and fawad alam

 

[Abhilash93]

Rishabh Pant (21 years) has over 2200 first class runs @ 50 with a SR of 90.

Includes 5 100s & 10 50s with a test 100 in England.

 

[Itachi]

No one's looking at the coaching at domestic level. People blame the selectors and captains for not bringing out new guys, but its an indictment for Pakistan domestic cricket if its leading batting giants are khurrum manzoor and fawad alam

I'll agree with this. If you don't teach properly on primary schools and later, you can't expect that, those students will be able to keep up with the pile of pressure in university.

Some genius may overcome these boundaries but those will be rare cases.

 

[Stewie]

I think its all tied to the simple economics and stsbility of cricket as a profession. Indian cricketers can end up millionaires if they work hard and cstch the attention... in pakistan, its not a sure bet for a career.

 

[Junaids]

It’s the age old story.

At partition India got the batsmen and Pakistan got the bowlers!

Pakistan needs to shine Shaheen Shah Afridi like the diamond he is because he is the world’s most promising bowler.

And they need to identify the best Under-19 batsmen and give them a Pakistan A tour every year to Australia, South Africa or England.

Domestic Pakistan cricket will never ever ever ever produce good batsmen.

 

[Gullycricket]

Only producing world class players is not enough. Mental toughness which our players lack is also important. Look at SA. World class players but scrambled brains in knockouts. Nowadays Indian youngsters are much more confident.Look at Pant sledging Cummins.That can't be done by a Pakistani youngster.Dont know what can be done regarding that but in mental toughness our existing and new players are miles behind India.
God I miss the days when we had players who could give it back to the opposition

 

[Varun]

Only producing world class players is not enough. Mental toughness which our players lack is also important. Look at SA. World class players but scrambled brains in knockouts. Nowadays Indian youngsters are much more confident.Look at Pant sledging Cummins.That can't be done by a Pakistani youngster.Dont know what can be done regarding that but in mental toughness our existing and new players are miles behind India.
God I miss the days when we had players who could give it back to the opposition

I'm confused - aren't you the same bloke who throws a whinge every second post about Kohli having a go at Australian players?

 

[cricketindiafan]

Will wait for both Shaw and Gill to do well at the international level for a couple of years at least before hyping them too much. KL Rahul is a prime example. All the talent in the world, great performances to start with and then now everything falling apart due to technical and mental weaknesses.

How they absorb the fame and limelight and carry on working hard on their game is what will decide their future.

Also, if you compare the three contemporaries in u-19 cricket - Unmukt Chand, Quinton De Kock, Sami Aslam and Babar Azam - all four prolific scorers in age cricket, its Unmukt Chand who has fallen away completely, Sami Aslam has had some success and still in on radar. The other two are established stars with Babar being the best of the lot so far. SO not all gloom and doom in Pakistan despite the challenges.

 

[Varun]

Also, if you compare the three contemporaries in u-19 cricket - Unmukt Chand, Quinton De Kock, Sami Aslam and Babar Azam - all four prolific scorers in age cricket, its Unmukt Chand who has fallen away completely, Sami Aslam has had some success and still in on radar. The other two are established stars with Babar being the best of the lot so far. SO not all gloom and doom in Pakistan despite the challenges.

And even if Shaw and Gill get past that stage - they could end up like Pujara and Rahane. Good but hardly great players.

So let's not count our chickens.

 

[Kriketer]

India isn't a team to look up to. They have always been and still are a very average team. Flat track and home bullying is what they are good for.

Pakistan has never excelled in batting department, we may not ever get the likes of Saeed Anwar or Miandad but we do produce good bowlers every now and then. Cricket is not the same anymore anywhere. Day long cricket is a dying sport and commercialism is producing many hitters and flat tracks all around cricketing nations. Look what Aussies are going through.

Pakistan won't ever be a dominant team but as long as they continue with surprise performances like CT or world T20 dominant run or awesome Test series like the recent one in England, it's all good.

 

[Square Drive]

We're not producing "nothing."

They just need to be identified, selected, and groomed properly.

 

[hisham_ashraf]

Sadly it's true that India is producing some exciting players and Pakistan on the other hand are struggling.
Still if you look at Pakistan's upcoming talents in terms of fast bowling you would realise that there are some wonderful pacers coming through.5 potential future greats.The problem is the lack of good batsmen and spinners, there's hardly any good U19 batsman in Pakistan.Saad Khan scores the most runs in the domestic matches for his U19 team but whenever I have seen him bat he looks ordinary.Saim Ayub and Ali Zaryab are decent and that is it.
Some Players to look forward from Pak-Saim Ayub,Musa, Hasnain,Naseem, Arshad Iqbal,Zaid Alam and Ali Zaryab
Players to look forward from Ind-Gill,Shaw,Mavi, Nagarkotti, Abhishek Sharma,Himanshu Rana,Prabhsimran Singh,Nehal Washers,Mohit Jhangra,AYUSH Badoni,Tilak Verma, Qamran Iqbal, Ishan Porel,Rasikh Salam and a few more.
Wake up PCB!!!

 

[Stalin]

Too soon to bring Shaw and Gill up here

 

[Stalin]

India isn't a team to look up to. They have always been and still are a very average team. Flat track and home bullying is what they are good for.

Pakistan has never excelled in batting department, we may not ever get the likes of Saeed Anwar or Miandad but we do produce good bowlers every now and then. Cricket is not the same anymore anywhere. Day long cricket is a dying sport and commercialism is producing many hitters and flat tracks all around cricketing nations. Look what Aussies are going through.

Pakistan won't ever be a dominant team but as long as they continue with surprise performances like CT or world T20 dominant run or awesome Test series like the recent one in England, it's all good.

The first para is as lame as ....... never mind.

 

[Reddy]

1. India has a population nearing 1.2 billion people. In a nation where cricket is the only sport it can raise a lot of funds(due to its size & population) to support it's cricket.

2. Batting has always been the main attraction for Indian young players so they will produce good batsmen going forward.

Your first point may have been true 10-15 years ago but not now. All the sports now have leagues and players make good money be it Soccer league ISL, Tennis League, Hockey League, Kabaaddi league, Badminton league etc.

Even the top badminton players like PV Sindhu are making tens of crores of INR every year via leagues and Advertisements.

 

[warcry]

producing what?
dont be fooled by first class under 19 performances

for all we know, they could be flops in the test arena like kl rahul

they will ipl, that is enough to ensure that they wont succeed in tests

 

[in_cutter]

Don’t worry. We have Hafeez.

 

[Shandarchowka]

I'm not too sure of the quality of Indian batting in the future. We were told that KL Rahul is the next big thing and see how much he is inferior to Babar, who is way younger than he is. Pakistan may produce fewer number of batsmen but we will produce quality like Babar and India will produce quantity like Rahul and Rohit.

 

[jagatk]

I'm not too sure of the quality of Indian batting in the future. We were told that KL Rahul is the next big thing and see how much he is inferior to Babar, who is way younger than he is. Pakistan may produce fewer number of batsmen but we will produce quality like Babar and India will produce quantity like Rahul and Rohit.

Rohit is the best LoI opener in the world currently, I would be very happy with such quantity. By the way we also have that average quantity guy called Kohli how's that for quantity.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Rohit is the best LoI opener in the world currently, I would be very happy with such quantity. By the way we also have that average quantity guy called Kohli how's that for quantity.

Kohli is good, no doubt. But Rohit, Rahul.. meh.. can't even hold bat to save lives in test matches...

 

[jagatk]

Kohli is good, no doubt. But Rohit, Rahul.. meh.. can't even hold bat to save lives in test matches...

Nothing shouts Test match quality like an average of 34, if that's world class I don't know what poor is.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Nothing shouts Test match quality like an average of 34, if that's world class I don't know what poor is.

Well Babar has just come to terms with test cricket. He was always earmarked for great honors but he took his time. Even you certainly knew he's too good to miss out...

With Rohit and Rahul.. they never inspire any confidence, do they? See that is the quality I'm talking about. Read - It's simply not there.

 

[jagatk]

Well Babar has just come to terms with test cricket. He was always earmarked for great honors but he took his time. Even you certainly knew he's too good to miss out...

With Rohit and Rahul.. they never inspire any confidence, do they? See that is the quality I'm talking about. Read - It's simply not there.

Yes Rahul was never inspiring confidence whether it was 100's in Australia and England or scoring 7 consecutive 50's in tests, but Babar's nos do.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Yes Rahul was never inspiring confidence whether it was 100's in Australia and England or scoring 7 consecutive 50's in tests, but Babar's nos do.

He scored all runs before he was found out. Now he is unable to lay bat on ball against Starc.

Babar is a different story. He started slow but now he has started scoring runs. He is going to make good scores against South Africa. We have that confidence in him.

 

[jagatk]

He scored all runs before he was found out. Now he is unable to lay bat on ball against Starc.

Babar is a different story. He started slow but now he has started scoring runs. He is going to make good scores against South Africa. We have that confidence in him.

His last 100 came in the England series just a few months ago and 5 of those 7 50's came against Starc and Co.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Proof is in the pudding. Our test bats have been underwhelming for quite some time, especially in SENA. Either the selectors/coaches are doing a bad job or we overhype our talents too much. Will have to wait and see if the next batch emulate Kohli or Rahul, frankly I am not keeping high expectations. Coming to ODI/T20 where is our middle order? Blame the selectors all you want but they are an integral part of the system and if they are failing at their jobs no sympathy for Indian cricket. Same applies to our coaching staff and NCA.

Indian batting potential is over rated and our bowling resources under rated on PP. This I have noticed for a long time, maybe perception plays a part.

 

[sully3]

Saying Shaw and Gill will be the mainstays of inndian batting team for the next 10 years is a bit rich especially as Gill hasnt even played a single match for the national team yet.

more then skill or talent its your mind/brain that insures if you will be sucessfull in international cricket. Also you could have all the talent in the world like Rohit Sharma has yet seeing him in test cricket is like watching a duck of water.

 

[Bilal7]

1. India's batting prospects are usually overhyped (See: KL Rahul and Rishab Pant) and I will wait to see what they accomplish over a period of time before buying into the hype.

2. Pakistan is a bowling team and they are well covered in that regard with Shaheen, Hasan, Shadab and Abbas.

3. Babar Azam, Imam ul Haq, Fakhar Zaman, Usman Salahuddin, etc. are all pretty young and should be the mainstays of the Pak batting in the future.

 

[srh]

Prithvi Shaw at the age of 19:

He already has a Test century and a Test half-century in only 3 Test innings.

He has 8 First-class centuries and 8 fifties and averages over 60 in First-class cricket.

In List-A Shaw has 3 hundreds and 6 fifties and averages over 40.

In T20s his strike-rate is 153.12 and he averages 27.22 with 2 fifties in only 9 innings.


Meanwhile Shubman Gill who is also 19 years old:

He has 2 hundreds and 5 fifties in First-class cricket in only 6 matches with a highest score of 268.

In List-A he has 4 hundreds and 7 fiftes at an average of nearly 48.

In T20 cricket he averages nearly 34 with a strike-rate of 146.04.


Looking at the above numbers, it's clear that these 2 guys will be the mainstays when it comes to India's batting strength for many years to come.

They are obviously batsmen who have the capability to play long innings, as well as cope and perform in the shorter formats. They are already looking like batsmen who could be the complete package.

So why is it that Pakistan is not producing such batsmen? Where is it going wrong? Is the approach wrong, are the priorities wrong? Is it the pitches? Is it the quality of domestic cricket? Is it the coaching? Or is it something else?

look at how Pakistan treat its young promising batsmen? Usman Salahudin was dropped from the squad after playing only 1 test. Then Saad Ali was dropped from the squad without playing a single test . Pakistan just dont support young promising batsmen unlike India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't know much about Pakistan cricket, but I assume it is still run on a semi-amateur basis. Indian cricket seems to be much more professional, and I assume the domestic cricket scene is self-sustaining. Cricket is/was a huge sport in Pakistan, there should be a means of monetising it at domestic level. PSL would be a big factor if it was played at home, but it isn't. Therein lies the problem.

 

[Banter]

I don't know much about Pakistan cricket, but I assume it is still run on a semi-amateur basis. Indian cricket seems to be much more professional, and I assume the domestic cricket scene is self-sustaining. Cricket is/was a huge sport in Pakistan, there should be a means of monetising it at domestic level. PSL would be a big factor if it was played at home, but it isn't. Therein lies the problem.

Its all about structures and systems. Due to the massive financial incentives, even club cricket in India is so organized and professional. So much professional coaching and facilities are available, and its a system that creates high quality competition at all levels. Let's not be naive, Indians are just as corrupt, lazy and inefficient as Pakistanis. But because the system overall is so competitive, it forces people to work towards improvement.

Pakistan's domestic cricket systems are languishing, partly due to inefficiency and mismanagement, but money would go a long way to address those issues.


If you think back to the 90s and 2000s, the Australian domestic cricket setup was one of the best in the world, players were highly paid and the small number of teams meant high-class competition. No surprise that it threw up some of the best players. Today, even though India has a lot of teams, and a lot of chaos and corruption, the incentives are such that there is plenty of quality coming through.

 

[Abdullah719]

Stick to the topic, i.e. batsmen.

This is not the thread to compare fast-bowlers, spinners, which team is better, who won the CT final, etc. Plenty of other threads available to cater to other topics.

 

[JaDed]

1. India's batting prospects are usually overhyped (See: KL Rahul and Rishab Pant) and I will wait to see what they accomplish over a period of time before buying into the hype.

2. Pakistan is a bowling team and they are well covered in that regard with Shaheen, Hasan, Shadab and Abbas.

3. Babar Azam, Imam ul Haq, Fakhar Zaman, Usman Salahuddin, etc. are all pretty young and should be the mainstays of the Pak batting in the future.

The third point IIRC you have used multiple times for diff Pakistani bastmen across years unless you only.mean 1-2 years.. correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Role models play a huge part in it - young Indian kids have lots of batsmen to look up to and aspire to be like much like young Pakistanis do with their fast bowlers.

 

[Markhor]

India have excellent mentors at junior levels where technical coaching makes the most impact, unlike Pakistani coaches whose technical knowledge amounts to "say bismillah before each ball and squat".

People cry about Grant Flower but he cannot change the technical habits of a seasoned batsman playing for years in a certain way.

NCA should oversee all the domestic coaches who must have the right qualifications before being appointed.

 

[Bilal7]

The third point IIRC you have used multiple times for diff Pakistani bastmen across years unless you only.mean 1-2 years.. correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't understand what you mean by this but please do expand.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Pakistani batsmen take a bit longer to mature. Indian batsmen are usually ready by 21-22 whereas Pakistanis take a few more years. It's down to the coaching resources of each country.

We do have good prospects in Zeeshan, Saud and Saif but they will take a bit longer to develop. The only player we were able to introduce successfully at a young age was Babar because of the coaching he'd received from the age of 14.

 

[JattMaula]

Will wait for both Shaw and Gill to do well at the international level for a couple of years at least before hyping them too much. KL Rahul is a prime example. All the talent in the world, great performances to start with and then now everything falling apart due to technical and mental weaknesses.

How they absorb the fame and limelight and carry on working hard on their game is what will decide their future.

Also, if you compare the three contemporaries in u-19 cricket - Unmukt Chand, Quinton De Kock, Sami Aslam and Babar Azam - all four prolific scorers in age cricket, its Unmukt Chand who has fallen away completely, Sami Aslam has had some success and still in on radar. The other two are established stars with Babar being the best of the lot so far. SO not all gloom and doom in Pakistan despite the challenges.

This.

Gill and Shaw are/were playing cricket formats below their skill levels. It remains to be seen if/when they come good at highest level.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Gill and Shaw have done nothing yet, Rohit Sharma led India to a test series win at home against WI and looked unbeatable initially and now he hardly gets a game in Tests

 

[AMSS]

Gill and Shaw have done nothing yet, Rohit Sharma led India to a test series win at home against WI and looked unbeatable initially and now he hardly gets a game in Tests

Didn't Shaw win the MoS award in his debut series? Does that count for 'nothing'?

 

[Adijazz1706]

Didn't Shaw win the MoS award in his debut series? Does that count for 'nothing'?

So did Rohit vs WI IIRC

 

[AMSS]

So did Rohit vs WI IIRC

So your point? Exactly, nothing.

 

[Hasan2K8]

Cricket is their number one most played sport huge interest it's like a religion for most of them. Obvious with such interest and cricket facilities and population they have, theyll produce good batsmen.

 

[ILcricket]

We must not disregard the amount of money being put in the game by BCCI .

 

[Hitman]

I'm not too sure of the quality of Indian batting in the future. We were told that KL Rahul is the next big thing and see how much he is inferior to Babar, who is way younger than he is. Pakistan may produce fewer number of batsmen but we will produce quality like Babar and India will produce quantity like Rahul and Rohit.

Some posters never really ceases to amaze us. Quality = Batting average of 35, new benchmark.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Some posters never really ceases to amaze us.

I just put how it is sir. I'm happy that it amazed you. Let me tell you, it is amusing for us to see how the hype fizzles out from these rockstar talents from India...

 

[Hitman]

I just put how it is sir. I'm happy that it amazed you. Let me tell you, it is amusing for us to see how the hype fizzles out from these rockstar talents from India...

Not really. Even unbiased posters from Pakistan knows the truth. Case in point the OP, who happens to be the owner of this site. It's people who suffer from delusion like yourself who put real, rational Pakistani posters to embarrassment with your posts.

New bench mark for quality is having a batting average of 35 in Tests

 

[Shandarchowka]

Not really. Even unbiased posters from Pakistan knows the truth. Case in point the OP, who happens to be the owner of this site. It's people who suffer from delusion like yourself who put real, rational Pakistani posters to embarrassment with your posts.

Well it's my opinion. Why are you generalizing all the Pakistanis in the site? You are free to refute my arguments/opinions.

Anyway, even Indians deep down know Pant and Rahul are not worth all the hype. They will fizzle out like rest of the others - Chand, Sanson, and other u19 'talents'. At least we Pakistanis have realistic expectations from our players. We hyped Shaheen and Babar and they clearly are much better than what India has produced lately. Thank you.

 

[Hitman]

Well it's my opinion. Why are you generalizing all the Pakistanis in the site? You are free to refute my arguments/opinions.

Anyway, even Indians deep down know Pant and Rahul are not worth all the hype. They will fizzle out like rest of the others - Chand, Sanson, and other u19 'talents'. At least we Pakistanis have realistic expectations from our players. We hyped Shaheen and Babar and they clearly are much better than what India has produced lately. Thank you.

How exactly are you supposed to know that? Do you have the ability to see the future? Pant has so far played 7 Tests, and has 1 century (in England) and 2 50's (in West Indies). Your quality Babar Azam scored his first Test hundred in the last series, that too in the UAE. Not to mention Mr. Quality has played 34 innings and averages a splendid 34.96 so far. Add to that a third class average of 30 away from the UAE.

I'm not really surprised if you consider that to be quality because those are the type of batsmen that you generally produce.

And suddenly the name of a bowler pops up in your post when the entire thread and the argument in about batsmen. Losing the plot already?

 

[Shandarchowka]

How exactly are you supposed to know that? Do you have the ability to see the future? Pant has so far played 7 Tests, and has 1 century (in England) and 2 50's (in West Indies). Your quality Babar Azam scored his first Test hundred in the last series, that too in the UAE. Not to mention Mr. Quality has played 34 innings and averages a splendid 34.96 so far. Add to that a third class average of 30 away from the UAE.

I'm not really surprised if you consider that to be quality because those are the type of batsmen that you generally produce.

And suddenly the name of a bowler pops up in your post when the entire thread and the argument in about batsmen. Losing the plot already?

Babar has just come to terms with test cricket. He already scored a century in the warm up game against South African Invitation XI in South Africa. It's a sign of things to come.

Rahul, Pant scored centuries at Oval and that is a shameful innings because they could draw the match there but they got out and gave away the match to England on a flat 5th day pitch. I won't rate those innings as they lacked the substance.

I brought Shaheen into the topic because I wanted to illustrate how your u19 stars fizzle out while ours, even if few, tend to be the real deal.

 

[Ganju Baba]

Rishabh "talentless hack" Pant

Mat 7
Inn 12
Runs 465
Avg 38.75
SR 73.23
100s. 1

Babar "superstar of PCT" Azam

Mat 18
Inn 34
Runs 1014
Avg 33.8
SR 48.22
100s. 1


Clearly, Indians and their over hyped batsmen are no match to the gems that PCT has.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Lies, damn lies, statistics...

One has to look at the quality of play than just numbers, especially when you have low sample sizes. Clearly Babar towers above hacks like Pant and Rahul..

 

[Hitman]

Babar has just come to terms with test cricket. He already scored a century in the warm up game against South African Invitation XI in South Africa. It's a sign of things to come.

Yea, scoring a century against a bunch of bowlers who have collectively played a grand total for ZERO Tests between them. That certainly a sign of how well he'll do against Steyn, Rabada, etc.

The reason why he hasn't been able to come to terms with Test cricket so far is simply because he lacks the talent.

Rahul, Pant scored centuries at Oval and that is a shameful innings because they could draw the match there but they got out and gave away the match to England on a flat 5th day pitch. I won't rate those innings as they lacked the substance.

You don't have to rate anyone or anything, simply because nobody cares for your opinion. What I said are not my opinions but facts. Pant has played just 7 Tests and has already scored a Test century in England, while Babar Azam had done zilch in his Test career till date. The very fact that he finally scored his first Test century in his last series, and that too in the UAE speaks everything that's required to be said about him. Even more shameful that he couldn't help his team save a Test series at home that too against New Zealand.

It's a shame that the batting standards of Pakistan has down so low that they now have to boast of a batsman like Babar Azam.

 

[Hitman]

Lies, damn lies, statistics...

One has to look at the quality of play than just numbers, especially when you have low sample sizes. Clearly Babar towers above hacks like Pant and Rahul..

Yea, we have all seen the quality of Babar Azam's game in Test cricket so far. An average of 30 away from the UAE, and a career average of 34 odd so far, and that too after playing 34 Test innings

He is lucky to be playing for a team like Pakistan.

 

[Ganju Baba]

Lies, damn lies, without statistics.

So Babar just lost a home series but his knock counts. Pant scored a century in England but it doesn't count.

God forbid if Indians end up being this desperate.

Let's address the "fizzled out talents" from U19. Following are some of the names.

Virat Kohli

Virender Sehwag

Rohit Sharma

Shikhar Dhawan

Suresh Raina

But I am certain that had they been Pakistani they wouldn't even be playing for Pakistan D.)

 

[Shandarchowka]

Yea, we have all seen the quality of Babar Azam's game in Test cricket so far. An average of 30 away from the UAE, and a career average of 34 odd so far, and that too after playing 34 Test innings

He is lucky to be playing for a team like Pakistan.

Babar is one one of the new bright stars in the block. He has not played away much. Now he has a chance to shut all his critics. He has displayed good technique and great temperament for a guy of his age..

 

[Shandarchowka]

Yea, scoring a century against a bunch of bowlers who have collectively played a grand total for ZERO Tests between them. That certainly a sign of how well he'll do against Steyn, Rabada, etc.

The reason why he hasn't been able to come to terms with Test cricket so far is simply because he lacks the talent.



You don't have to rate anyone or anything, simply because nobody cares for your opinion. What I said are not my opinions but facts. Pant has played just 7 Tests and has already scored a Test century in England, while Babar Azam had done zilch in his Test career till date. The very fact that he finally scored his first Test century in his last series, and that too in the UAE speaks everything that's required to be said about him. Even more shameful that he couldn't help his team save a Test series at home that too against New Zealand.

It's a shame that the batting standards of Pakistan has down so low that they now have to boast of a batsman like Babar Azam.

Just because it is England doesn't hide the fact that the century came on a flat track meant for Cook's farewell. India had no business losing that test match on such a placid pitch. But well.. Pant and Rahul were not upto it and India came crashing down.

 

[jagatk]

Just because it is England doesn't hide the fact that the century came on a flat track meant for Cook's farewell. India had no business losing that test match on such a placid pitch. But well.. Pant and Rahul were not upto it and India came crashing down.

So 18 matches and Babar is just coming to terms with test cricket but Pant with matches should be winning tests singlehandedly. also how about messing up a chase with 46 runs to win and 6 wickets in hand, Pak had no business losing that one, I suppose Babar just wasn't not up to it.

 

[Hitman]

Just because it is England doesn't hide the fact that the century came on a flat track meant for Cook's farewell. India had no business losing that test match on such a placid pitch. But well.. Pant and Rahul were not upto it and India came crashing down.

Just because you say it was a flat track doesn't make it so. Leave that to the rest of the cricket fraternity to make a judgement on what type of a track it was. Your Babar Azam has so far proved to be a big time joke in Test cricket who scored his first century during the last series, and you have the nerve to question a century scored by a 20 year old player who scored it in England and that too in the third Test match of his career.

Babar Azam couldn't help his side even draw a Test series in the UAE against New Zealand. Have some shame. You're embarrassing the rest of your fellow Pakistani posters.

 

[Hitman]

Babar is one one of the new bright stars in the block. He has not played away much. Now he has a chance to shut all his critics. He has displayed good technique and great temperament for a guy of his age..

He has played 34 Test innings so far. His career average is 34 odd and his average away from the UAE is 30 odd.

Let him shut his critics and then start singing his praises. So far he has turned out to be a peasant in Test cricket, a big joke.

 

[Shandarchowka]

So 18 matches and Babar is just coming to terms with test cricket but Pant with matches should be winning tests singlehandedly.

Not really. He has not shown capacity to grind down when required. That 100 you guys talk about can be a lifetime achievement. He just carelessly slogged the ball around. I'd not put any weight to that innings..

 

[Shandarchowka]

He has played 34 Test innings so far. His career average is 34 odd and his average away from the UAE is 30 odd.

Let him shut his critics and then start singing his praises. So far he has turned out to be a peasant in Test cricket, a big joke.

Kohli started on a similar note too but look where he is now. Babar, like Kohli, has shown that he has the temperament to go big and become one of the best in the world. Pant and Rahul have just given a sorry account of themselves and I'm sure even many Indians would know that they're not upto the mark.

 

[jagatk]

Not really. He has not shown capacity to grind down when required. That 100 you guys talk about can be a lifetime achievement. He just carelessly slogged the ball around. I'd not put any weight to that innings..

Very interesting how you cut out the uncomfortable part of the post for you.

 

[Adijazz1706]

He has played 34 Test innings so far. His career average is 34 odd and his average away from the UAE is 30 odd.

Let him shut his critics and then start singing his praises. So far he has turned out to be a peasant in Test cricket, a big joke.

Kohli after 29 Tests, averaged only 39 despite being very good in LOIs, Babar looks to be on a similar path. Rahul though, has gone off the deep end, I don't see much of a future for him

 

[Hitman]

Not really. He has not shown capacity to grind down when required. That 100 you guys talk about can be a lifetime achievement. He just carelessly slogged the ball around. I'd not put any weight to that innings..

Here is the other part of his post that you conveniently ignored -

also how about messing up a chase with 46 runs to win and 6 wickets in hand, Pak had no business losing that one, I suppose Babar just wasn't not up to it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Its all about structures and systems. Due to the massive financial incentives, even club cricket in India is so organized and professional. So much professional coaching and facilities are available, and its a system that creates high quality competition at all levels. Let's not be naive, Indians are just as corrupt, lazy and inefficient as Pakistanis. But because the system overall is so competitive, it forces people to work towards improvement.

Pakistan's domestic cricket systems are languishing, partly due to inefficiency and mismanagement, but money would go a long way to address those issues.


If you think back to the 90s and 2000s, the Australian domestic cricket setup was one of the best in the world, players were highly paid and the small number of teams meant high-class competition. No surprise that it threw up some of the best players. Today, even though India has a lot of teams, and a lot of chaos and corruption, the incentives are such that there is plenty of quality coming through.

This is what I mean, with cricket being such a popular game in the subcontinent, should be fairly easy to monetise it and create a professional and competitive sport in Pakistan which should more than finance itself. That in turn would lead to professional coaching opportunities, and a rise in standards would inevitably follow. The whole structure looks both disorganised, and crooked.

It's not that different to what Imran Khan was saying back in his playing days. There is plenty of talent in Pakistan but the domestic structure is a shambles, and you would imagine nepotism and sifarish are rife.

Not that surprising then that it didn't take that long for Sri Lanka and Bangladesh to start producing better or comparable batsmen, could be they have managed to create a more competitive atmosphere which produces higher grade batsmen.

 

[Darkrai]

Babar Azam is easily better than all these players. The best in T20I, without a question, one of the best in ODI, Top 5 easily. And he was top 3 in Test cricket this year.