India is producing the likes of Prithvi Shaw and Shubman Gill whilst Pakistan is producing nothing

[Saj]

One interesting aspect of this is the lack of big scores by young Pakistani batsmen in domestic cricket -big 100s or double-hundreds.

 

[barah_admi]

Prithvi Shaw at the age of 19:

He already has a Test century and a Test half-century in only 3 Test innings.

He has 8 First-class centuries and 8 fifties and averages over 60 in First-class cricket.

In List-A Shaw has 3 hundreds and 6 fifties and averages over 40.

In T20s his strike-rate is 153.12 and he averages 27.22 with 2 fifties in only 9 innings.


Meanwhile Shubman Gill who is also 19 years old:

He has 2 hundreds and 5 fifties in First-class cricket in only 6 matches with a highest score of 268.

In List-A he has 4 hundreds and 7 fiftes at an average of nearly 48.

In T20 cricket he averages nearly 34 with a strike-rate of 146.04.


Looking at the above numbers, it's clear that these 2 guys will be the mainstays when it comes to India's batting strength for many years to come.

They are obviously batsmen who have the capability to play long innings, as well as cope and perform in the shorter formats. They are already looking like batsmen who could be the complete package.

So why is it that Pakistan is not producing such batsmen? Where is it going wrong? Is the approach wrong, are the priorities wrong? Is it the pitches? Is it the quality of domestic cricket? Is it the coaching? Or is it something else?

Pakistan have the best young batsman in world cricket today in Babar Azam.

They have the second best young pace bowler in Hasan Ali.

They a guy with test half centuries and wickets in Shadab Khan....only 19.

Shaheen Afridi may be the best teenage pace bowler on the planet already.

Pakistan is producing enough talent across enough disciplines, no idea why you have to be so negative without any proof.

 

[The Viper]

There are a number of reasons of why India is producing much better batsman.

1. India has a better Batting legacy/culture. Indians when they grow up want to be the next Sachin. The impact of Tendulkar was huge so many decided to take up batting. Not only Tendulkar though, others like Dravid, Laxman and Sehwag. Now Pak themselves had a very impressive batting lineup in the 2000’s but unfortunately no batsman have emerged which is a mystery really. I guess the brilliance of Wasim and Waqar meant that most want to emulate them and bowl fast.

2. Following up with the last point, there needs to be some quality coaches who can nurture and help young batsman develop. There were a few batsman that just have huge technical problems and struggle against a specific type of bowling whether it is pace or spin. Mostly there are no sign of improving in a facet which shows that the players do not want to learn themselves or the Coaches are not good enough in the Domestic scene. Let me give you one example. Sahibzada Farhan scored a bunch of runs in domestics but he has poor technique and in the interview with PP said he wants to hit every ball out the park. I remember reading that one of his coaches told him to play his natural game. Now this approach will work in domestics but in Internationals it will be exposed. Indian coaches are much better and will fix technical problems. I don’t think you can completely blame coaches because some of the players are just stubborn. Grant Flower also hasn’t done a great job with the Pak national team. It may be the language barrier but when nobody except for Babar is improving then it doesn’t look good.

3. The wickets in Pak domestic are really poor most of the time and are not great for stoke makers. The recent National T20 Cup hasn’t seen much huge scores which tells you the difficulty of the wickets. In first class cricket there needs to be a balance as there cannot always be seaming- bowling wickets. If I recall correctly only Karachi wicket had some huge scores. But most of the wickets were tough to bat on. There are so much bowlers with great stats. Not saying they are all bad but it does show how bowling friendly the wickets are.
Indian wickets are much better and they have a variety as well. I remember when Pujara was out of the Indian test team. His domestic team had flat wickets which helped him score a lot of runs. Pujara is quality and I am not degrading him but the wickets are perfect to grind and get huge scores. The wickets prepared in Pak need to resemble the UAE as much as possible with some variety in the pitches.

4. In the Indian setup you have batting legends like Rahul Dravid grooming and working with upcoming talent. I am sure he had a great influence on the likes of Gill and Shaw. Pakistan on the other hand does not have its legendary batsman involved in the setup. Why are guys like Inzi not working as a batting coach or consultant rather than CS? The members above are clueless as they are not making the most out of certain greats. Inzi offers nothing really as CS but could have greatly improved the techniques of some of our batsman.

5. There needs to be a few batman looked at and groomed from a young age. Like there are bowling camps, there needs to a special emphasis on young domestic performers. A couple of batsman such as Imran Rafiq and Umair Yousaf could be groomed and developed under individual coaching. They need to be included in A tours also. Whilst age shouldn’t be the only criteria for selection, these guys have scored and have potential but just need to work on a few issues.

 

[BaankeJi]

In India, cricket is batting. For most part of rural areas , that is true. If you play a game of cricket and only do bowling and Fielding, then that means you did not get the reward for your work. Batting is the ultimate prize in a game of cricket. Bowling is just work and no play.
Hope that explains.

 

[light]

It’s the age old story.

At partition India got the batsmen and Pakistan got the bowlers!

Pakistan needs to shine Shaheen Shah Afridi like the diamond he is because he is the world’s most promising bowler.

And they need to identify the best Under-19 batsmen and give them a Pakistan A tour every year to Australia, South Africa or England.

Domestic Pakistan cricket will never ever ever ever produce good batsmen.

However, india is producing good enough bowlers who are taking wickets to win test matches these days aswell. Age old story is in the history book. If you ask me, india puts a lot of emphesis in their grass root level where as Pakistan seems to discard that and cut corner. SL is a prime example of this and the outcome it will have on its international level.

 

[Mr. Cricket]

Please remove this misunderstanding that we everyone is crazy about cricket. Kabbadi league get more viewership than cricket in India. We are also good in tennis, table tennis, kabbadi, batminton, wrestling and football league is very popular in India.
I bet u if we qualify for football WC once, cricket will see the same fate as hockey.
We are now moving to other sports.

You should introspect about Pakistani cricket talent bcz you are not even good in one sports that u play despite having 20 crore population.
You even can't qualify a single athletes for Olympic .
I believe no country lacks talent , it matter of how you nourish it and India with it's professional approach and the fastest growing economy slowly going this way.

 

[Shafi]

Simple!!!! We had minimal talent in batting in past but now is zero.

 

[Savak]

Shaw and Gill have a long way to go and a lot to prove. Rohit Sharma and Dhawan are just like Yuvraj, beasts in odis and t20s but failures in tests.

Kohli is a once in a lifetime player and role model hungry professional unlikely to be seen again.

India should be worried about what life will be like once these 3 players go especially Kohli

 

[Savak]

Simple explanation is that ex legendary pak players especially batsmen have not given back to Pakistan Cricket. All they have been interested in is getting cushy pcb jobs at best.

Dravid decided to give everything to Indian U19 and A team. Who are our domestic and nca coaches? There in lies the answer coupled with the fall out of zero international cricket in Pakistan for the last 10 years

 

[Sidilicious]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Shaw has played a total of 2 tests against a weak WI at home, whereas Gill has not even played 10 first class games. They have done nothing to warrant such praise. Pant has also played a handful of tests, and again has done nothing to warrant such praise. Yes, they all have potential, but we have seen that potential does not equate to success. Unmukt Chand being the perfect example.

One intereting aspect of this is the lack of big scores by young Pakistani batsmen in domestic cricket -big 100s or double-hundreds.

This is the bigger problem that should be addressed. The setup does not seem to encourage large scores. The domestic structure needs change.

 

[gazza619]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Shaw has played a total of 2 tests against a weak WI at home, whereas Gill has not even played 10 first class games. They have done nothing to warrant such praise. Pant has also played a handful of tests, and again has done nothing to warrant such praise. Yes, they all have potential, but we have seen that potential does not equate to success. Unmukt Chand being the perfect example.



This is the bigger problem that should be addressed. The setup does not seem to encourage large scores. The domestic structure needs change.

We can only hope that PCB under Imran Khan’s government will take good steps. I am just concerned that all our focus is PSL which will give us players for T20 but would the same players be able to convert to good test players?

 

[Sidilicious]

Lies, damn lies, statistics...

One has to look at the quality of play than just numbers, especially when you have low sample sizes. Clearly Babar towers above hacks like Pant and Rahul..

You need to apply the same criteria to all batsman. If you are judging Babar on a couple of innings for potential, then you need to do the same with Pant and Shaw.

Not saying that Pant and Shaw are better than Babar. But you cannot say that Player A has shown potential in a couple of innings even though he does not have the runs or average yet, but Player B does not have the potential because he has not scored an runs even though he has shown potential in a couple of innings.

You cant compare a couple of good innings vs runs. Its got to be the same for both.

 

[jagatk]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Shaw has played a total of 2 tests against a weak WI at home, whereas Gill has not even played 10 first class games. They have done nothing to warrant such praise. Pant has also played a handful of tests, and again has done nothing to warrant such praise. Yes, they all have potential, but we have seen that potential does not equate to success. Unmukt Chand being the perfect example.



This is the bigger problem that should be addressed. The setup does not seem to encourage large scores. The domestic structure needs change.

Unmukt Chand is a basket case, any u19 kid who writes a book about his childhood and winning an u19 wc just after winning the said WC is destined to fail.

 

[Sidilicious]

We can only hope that PCB under Imran Khan’s government will take good steps. I am just concerned that all our focus is PSL which will give us players for T20 but would the same players be able to convert to good test players?

I think we have already seen what T20 has done to KL Rahul.The guy had a brilliant technique when he turned up in 2014 in Aus and was scoring 50s on difficult tracks till 2017 where others couldn't score anything. But since he became the darling of T20, his test game has gone to the dogs, even though his technique seems fine. Also, Shastri and Kohli dropping (or was it just criticising?) KL because he didnt score 100s (even though he was scoring runs consistently) seems to have impacted him.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

India may have all the batsmen and bowlers and money and IPL and etc, but we have Arsal Sheikh and they can't ever compete with that.

One Sheikh to rule them all.

 

[Reddy]

Simple explanation is that ex legendary pak players especially batsmen have not given back to Pakistan Cricket. All they have been interested in is getting cushy pcb jobs at best.

Dravid decided to give everything to Indian U19 and A team. Who are our domestic and nca coaches? There in lies the answer coupled with the fall out of zero international cricket in Pakistan for the last 10 years

I see many such comments by Pakistani members but then they don't see that Rahul Dravid is paid INR 5 Crores or PKR 10 Crores per year for his U19/A coaching job whereas in Pakistan even the International coach Mickey Arthur is paid INR 1.5 crores or PKR 3 crores. There is a reason no Pakistani superstar will prefer coaching over Commentary or any other gig.

 

[aukhan]

Their poster boy is Virat Kohli and we have Sarfraz Ahmed. The only thing we will produce now is more mediocrity.

 

[Balthazar]

Hardly surprising. Better facilities and Infrastructure, and hence better talents.

 

[Banter]

I see many such comments by Pakistani members but then they don't see that Rahul Dravid is paid INR 5 Crores or PKR 10 Crores per year for his U19/A coaching job whereas in Pakistan even the International coach Mickey Arthur is paid INR 1.5 crores or PKR 3 crores. There is a reason no Pakistani superstar will prefer coaching over Commentary or any other gig.

PCB suits are used to treating FC players, and other cricket staff at their mercy. BCCI used to be the same way in the 90s. Only difference is that a lot of money flooded into Indian cricket, and it has been channeled into the appropriate places - because there is plenty left over to do just that after the corrupt officials have their fill. Problem for PCB is that there isn't that much to go around.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Gill should be playing for India. He is next batting legend for India.

 

[Khalistani99]

Babar Azam is still getting better. I expect him to do much better in future. He will be mainstay of their team. I hope they don't make him captain. It will be bad distraction. Pakistan has big population. You only need a pool of 30 good batters. I blame culture of sifarsh and corruption for their lack of quality batters.
Similarly, players un Indians 11 are not necessarily best in country. Selection is biased and discriminatory. People like Vijay and Rahul are there due to sifarsh only. In last few years Srinivasan-Dhoni duo removed Gambhir for Vijay, Harbhajan for Ashwin, Yuvraj for Raina. They kept very average Jadeja in thr team.
Unmukt Chand got a raw deal. Wasn't even enough given A team matches. Shubham Gill is entirely different league and should have been opening Indian batting instead of Vijay, Rahul, Dhawan, Vihari etc. He should have been in ODI team for world cup.

So, overall despite having big populations, discrimination, corruption and sifarish is the main reason for sub optimal performance of both Indian and Pakistani teams. An honest and capable administrator can turn things around in 7-8 years

 

[Syed1]

Well we have bhateeja to bank our hopes on.... with his monstrous 30 odd average I look forward to him smashing pacers around the world.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Add Mayank to this list! Showed better grit and application than Rahanes and Rohits just on his debut! Should kick these two out of the Test team like how they dumped Rahuls and Vijays!

 

[USofA]

I guess the Indian batting line-up in the near future is likely to be:

Shaw
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Pant

With Gill/someone else slotting in for Pandya from time to time.

 

[AMSS]

I guess the Indian batting line-up in the near future is likely to be:

Shaw
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Pant

With Gill/someone else slotting in for Pandya from time to time.

Rahane has flattered to deceive once again this series. He should be on notice with Gill on standby.

 

[jeetu]

Pakistan's biggest issue is not raw talent coming through. The big issue is that new top performers are already getting old with Abbas nearing 29. Other big match winner Yasir shah is is already closing on 33.
The bigger issue is that young talented players were not handled well, they taper off after great start. Prime examples are Umar Akmal and Junaid Khan.
PCB needs to make sure that these mistake will not happened again regarding Babar Azam and Shaheen Afridi.

 

[Sidilicious]

I guess the Indian batting line-up in the near future is likely to be:

Shaw
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Pant

With Gill/someone else slotting in for Pandya from time to time.

Agarwal has just played 1 test. He will need to be consistent to make that spot his own. Should be given at least 2-3 series without any questions of dropping him even if he fails.

Shaw has age on his side, so will be given a longer rope that Agarwal.

 

[Gullycricket]

One team is about to create History in Australia while as we still unclear about playing 11.Shows how Pathetic Pak cricket has become

 

[Zakaz]

Babar is one one of the new bright stars in the block. He has not played away much. Now he has a chance to shut all his critics. He has displayed good technique and great temperament for a guy of his age..

Afraid to say, I think we might be being a bit too optimistic with Babar...

 

[Hasan123]

India produce better batsmen. And they are producing good bowlers now as well . Worrying times.

 

[Mamoon]

Both are probably already better than any batsman in Pakistan at the moment.

 

[dildilpak]

Pakistan's biggest issue is not raw talent coming through. The big issue is that new top performers are already getting old with Abbas nearing 29. Other big match winner Yasir shah is is already closing on 33.
The bigger issue is that young talented players were not handled well, they taper off after great start. Prime examples are Umar Akmal and Junaid Khan.
PCB needs to make sure that these mistake will not happened again regarding Babar Azam and Shaheen Afridi.

I absolutely agree... i dont understand why Abbas was not groomed earlier & handed an earlier debut & why are we still struggling to find a young spin partner to Yasir Shah (who i think is useless besides UAE & to some extent, England).

The one thing about BCCI is that they have built a great system of regional talent hunters who know how to identify young talent & groom them to be exceptional players through a well-defined system - no wonder they now have a great bench strength in both bowling & batting. PCB on the other hand is corrupt to the core & it looks like only players with connections make it eventually while others get sidelined. The few who patiently ride it out & make a late debut don’t last beyond a few years because of their age related problems & also bcoz they are too set in their ways to adapt to international cricket.

 

[Banter]

I absolutely agree... i dont understand why Abbas was not groomed earlier & handed an earlier debut & why are we still struggling to find a young spin partner to Yasir Shah (who i think is useless besides UAE & to some extent, England).

The one thing about BCCI is that they have built a great system of regional talent hunters who know how to identify young talent & groom them to be exceptional players through a well-defined system - no wonder they now have a great bench strength in both bowling & batting. PCB on the other hand is corrupt to the core & it looks like only players with connections make it eventually while others get sidelined. The few who patiently ride it out & make a late debut don’t last beyond a few years because of their age related problems & also bcoz they are too set in their ways to adapt to international cricket.

To build bench strength and hunt talent, you have to have high quality competition in domestic cricket with good pitches. Pak domestic cricket has decayed from within for decades. To build top player pools in modern age of cricket, you need to have a good constant round of 'A' tours ON TOP of a decent domestic structure. PCB needs to spend the money and invest in 3 years of constant A tours - to any and all countries. Top teams won't co-operate too much, but even touring Zim, WI, SL will help. You can't expect players to suddenly perform at the top level if they have not done it at lower levels.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well the day Pakistan started depending on spinners to win matches in UAE they finished off their pace bowling lineage. Even now their trump card is Yasir Shah. Since Saeed Ajmal, the spearhead of Pak attack is a spinner and its been a decade almost.

Before the SA test series Sarfaraz was saying that "SA has not played a quality leg spinner". If you are not going to hype up your pacers in SA where will you do so?

Pakistan must understand that depending on spinners to win games in UAE wont do them good. Pakistan team culture thrives on having tear away fast bowlers. Thats what they should look to develop. Their fast bowlers won them matches in UAE, no reason they cant do it again.

Think like this, will this Indian team be any good if it didnt have a superstar potentially ATG level batsman like Kohli to revolve around? I think not. This is Indian cricket team culture. Team around a ATG batsman.

Pakistan's culture is team around a ATG fast bowler. Preserve it.

 

[Mp812]

Both are probably already better than any batsman in Pakistan at the moment.

Gill is untested at international level...just on A tours he has done well.
But then again shaw, Aggarawal, vihari were part of those tours and were instrumental in India A wins.
Anyway, I guess no more test matches for India scheduled soon , so gill may just have to wait...but he seems to be on doors to replacing Rahane
Come to think of it.
Aggrawal and Shaw as openers ( Vijay and Rahul dropped) with Chepu & Kohli to follow, Rahane replaced by Subman Gill, followed by Vihari and Saha(wk) seems to be probable batting lineup India will mostly persist in 2019...test matches

 

[Mamoon]

Gill is untested at international level...just on A tours he has done well.
But then again shaw, Aggarawal, vihari were part of those tours and were instrumental in India A wins.
Anyway, I guess no more test matches for India scheduled soon , so gill may just have to wait...but he seems to be on doors to replacing Rahane
Come to think of it.
Aggrawal and Shaw as openers ( Vijay and Rahul dropped) with Chepu & Kohli to follow, Rahane replaced by Subman Gill, followed by Vihari and Saha(wk) seems to be probable batting lineup India will mostly persist in 2019...test matches

After the World Cup, Gill would probably get a crack at the number 4 spot in ODIs. There is a possibility that Shaw might get a look in as well, but I feel that the management see him purely as an opener. Nonetheless, the future of Indian batting looks in fantastic shape as usual.

Agarwal has been so impressive. He looks 100% ready for Test cricket both technically and mentally. Within a year or so, he will be counted among the best Test openers in the world. The Agarwal-Shaw partnership could be India's finest in Test cricket since Sehwag-Gambhir.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Both are probably already better than any batsman in Pakistan at the moment.

I'd rather support rubbish Pak batsmen and a rubbish Pak team than fantasise over any Indian team. But each to their own I guess.

India beat the weakest Aus team in history and lost to England and SA. They are hardly a great team either.

 

[Minnowbasher]

Pakistan have produced Dad's dream Shan "The GOAT" Masood.

 

[Mamoon]

I'd rather support rubbish Pak batsmen and a rubbish Pak team than fantasise over any Indian team. But each to their own I guess.

India beat the weakest Aus team in history and lost to England and SA. They are hardly a great team either.

You don't understand what "support" means.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You don't understand what "support" means.

I guess it means different things to different people. For you it's India, for me it's Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

I guess it means different things to different people. For you it's India, for me it's Pakistan.

Then your definition of support is shallow. I support Pakistan and I want Pakistan to do well. However, my support does not deter me from acknowledging the fact that India is way ahead of Pakistan and is the benchmark in cricket today. It is silly and ridiculous to make your team look better than it actually is because of your "support" .

Yes they are not perfect team, but they are better than everyone else for one simple reason: they are by far the best team at home and are competitive away. No other team is better away from home and no other team is clearly as good at home. They fully deserve the number one ranking.

Also, Pakistan-India rivalry and animosity means absolutely nothing to me. I greatly admire Indian cricket and have no issues in appreciating their great cricket culture and heritage.

"Supporting" India over Pakistan would mean that I would be hoping for India to beat Pakistan whenever there is a match. However, that never has and never will happen obviously because I'm Pakistani.

 

[Saj]

Shaw batted well today.

Impressive innings that, displaying a wide array of shots.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Shaw batted well today.

Impressive innings that, displaying a wide array of shots.

So you and @ MenInG bro are finally watching the IPL. Hopefully it provides you with your regular dose of cricket.

 

[Bewal Express]

I am not sold on Gill although better judges than me rate him very highly. It may be because I haven't seen enough of him but he looks to be batting under the weight of expectations. Shaw on the other hand is a beast in the making, and once he realises that he doesn't have to take high risks to score quickly as he has enough shots, he will tear attacks apart on the flat tracks. Whether he can bat like that on wickets with movement will determine whether he becomes one for the ages.

 

[Saj]

So you and @ MenInG bro are finally watching the IPL. Hopefully it provides you with your regular dose of cricket.

Bits and pieces really.

More for seeing young upcoming players.

 

[azimiqbal]

I refuse to watch the IPL due to them it allowing Pakistani cricketers to play

 

[Ab Fan]

I am not sold on Gill although better judges than me rate him very highly. It may be because I haven't seen enough of him but he looks to be batting under the weight of expectations. Shaw on the other hand is a beast in the making, and once he realises that he doesn't have to take high risks to score quickly as he has enough shots, he will tear attacks apart on the flat tracks. Whether he can bat like that on wickets with movement will determine whether he becomes one for the ages.

Although the more we will watch, we get to see more of him but I have a very contrasting opinion.

Prithvi Shaw technique is waiting to get exposed and some of his shot selections are terrible. In contrast, Shubhman Gill looks a technically correct player, does not have great hitting skills but seems more rounded and complete. His ground hitting is excellent.

The longer the format, the better the chances of Shubhman Gill doing great. I feel Gill will be all-format success like a Kohli or Williamson while Shaw's technique and his fitness level is just not meant for tough runs overseas. He has appetite for runs though.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Although the more we will watch, we get to see more of him but I have a very contrasting opinion.

Prithvi Shaw technique is waiting to get exposed and some of his shot selections are terrible. In contrast, Shubhman Gill looks a technically correct player, does not have great hitting skills but seems more rounded and complete. His ground hitting is excellent.

The longer the format, the better the chances of Shubhman Gill doing great. I feel Gill will be all-format success like a Kohli or Williamson while Shaw's technique and his fitness level is just not meant for tough runs overseas. He has appetite for runs though.

Shaw will be the Rohit and Gill the Kohli. That kind of situation.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Shaw will be the Rohit and Gill the Kohli. That kind of situation.

Shaw is more like Sehwag. Doesn't last as long as Rohit but scores at a quicker rate.

 

[Varun]

What is so great about Shaw and Gill? Let them achieve something in international cricket first before anointing them as Sehwag or Kohli or whoever.

So far the only sightings have been in IPL and Netflix series. Means zero. Even Vinod Kambli had done much more by this stage.

 

[JattMaula]

Shaw is more like Sehwag. Doesn't last as long as Rohit but scores at a quicker rate.

Rohit was considered a joke until 2013. Times, they change.
But Shaw and Gill will have to overcome many more hurdles to reach those heights, if they ever do.

 

[Ab Fan]

Shaw is more like Sehwag. Doesn't last as long as Rohit but scores at a quicker rate.

Yes, Shaw is more in Sehwag mode than Rohit.

 

[naseem]

Gill more pleasing Shaw more brutal........Shaw might have more impact but like Shewag with age his technique will be more questioned.......Gill looks more assured

 

[Saj]

To be fair to Pakistan this thread was started before Haider Ali was around. And it's pretty clear that Haider is the next big hope when it comes to batting in Pakistan, at least in white ball cricket.

 

[JaDed]

To be fair to Pakistan this thread was started before Haider Ali was around. And it's pretty clear that Haider is the next big hope when it comes to batting in Pakistan, at least in white ball cricket.

And he is already going to be a permanent member of PCT unlike Shaw/Gill/Jaiswal who will probably be second to Pant/Iyer/Rahul/Manish/Mayank ..

 

[Markhor]

So after all that talk about how it's impossible to score at a quick rate in the UAE, seeing Pakistani batsmen in PSL puffing and panting to scores of 150-160, now we're seeing huge totals being racked up in IPL.

 

[CanadianG00se]

So after all that talk about how it's impossible to score at a quick rate in the UAE, seeing Pakistani batsmen in PSL puffing and panting to scores of 150-160, now we're seeing huge totals being racked up in IPL.

Quality of batting is much high in IPL

 

[JaDed]

So after all that talk about how it's impossible to score at a quick rate in the UAE, seeing Pakistani batsmen in PSL puffing and panting to scores of 150-160, now we're seeing huge totals being racked up in IPL.

Didn't India bat quicker in Asia cup 2018 already? Both matches against Pak we chased with many overs remaining without Kohli... Asian pitches suit our game.

 

[Local.Dada]

To be fair to Pakistan this thread was started before Haider Ali was around. And it's pretty clear that Haider is the next big hope when it comes to batting in Pakistan, at least in white ball cricket.

Young Pakistan players raw talent is never a question, it is how they are managed and groomed to take it to the next level is.

 

[OldWarHorse]

Believe this year, Sanju will really click and I mean not just the IPL. He might finally bring some consistency to his game
I half expected him to throw it away today after his performance in the last game. But he showed steel today, really impressive.

 

[PakPremi]

So after all that talk about how it's impossible to score at a quick rate in the UAE, seeing Pakistani batsmen in PSL puffing and panting to scores of 150-160, now we're seeing huge totals being racked up in IPL.

Bowling must be average

 

[cricketjoshila]

Bowling must be average

Or the batting is far better.

 

[Saj]

Young Pakistan players raw talent is never a question, it is how they are managed and groomed to take it to the next level is.

No I disagree.

For many years now, apart from Babar Azam, Pakistan has not produced world class batsmen. When I say world class I mean excellent in all 3 formats.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Young Pakistan players raw talent is never a question, it is how they are managed and groomed to take it to the next level is.

If that was true, they would be more competitive at U19 level than they actually are.

 

[PakPremi]

Or the batting is far better.

Archer hitting 6s for fun tells me bowling is average. Many international batsmen that play in IPL also play in PSL when available, but tbey do not have this much fun.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Archer hitting 6s for fun tells me bowling is average. Many international batsmen that play in IPL also play in PSL when available, but tbey do not have this much fun.

Who exactly? Kohli Rohit Rahul Warner Abdv Smith Williamson ? Who?

A few English batsmen like Buttler and Morgan played a few matches for psl once.

I am not even talking about local talent like Gill Shaw Samson and co.

Archer was instrumental in winning a WC for his country. Yesterday he went fir 11 and over in the ipl.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No I disagree.

For many years now, apart from Babar Azam, Pakistan has not produced world class batsmen. When I say world class I mean excellent in all 3 formats.

With the population that pakistan has and the popularity of cricket, pakistan will always have guys with ability coming in. But they come and they go.

I pointed out on this forum that no pakistani fast bowler has taken 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis. Fast bowlers have come, performed well initially and then disappeared.

The cause of this dissappearing act is not known. And it will not be known unless someone acknowledges that the problem exists.

 

[MMHS]

Young Pakistan players raw talent is never a question, it is how they are managed and groomed to take it to the next level is.

No - it’s a question now. Unless I am misunderstanding the term “raw talent”.

It was true till last decade - Faisal Iqbal made 70 in his first Test in NZ, then 75 & 39* in his return against that AUS attack. Asim Kamal made 99 on debut against a full SAF attack, Azhar Mahmood had three outstanding hundreds in his first 6 Tests - all against that SAF attack; Umar Akmal made Viv Richardisque 123 & 52 on debut against a rampant Bond on a green top, then followed up with 2 scores of 49 at MCG and in few months time made a stunning 104 at Colombo against Murali; Taufique Umar hit couple of outstanding hundreds in his first tour of SAF within a year or two of debut; Mo Sami won a Test on debut in NZ with a 5for; in his first ODI innings Shahid Afridi hit a 37 balls hundred against world champs - then took a 5for on Test debut against that Australian batting, followed it up with a match winning hundred in very next Test at Chennai; Mo Amir was player of 2010 English summer, Mo Asif routed that Indian lineup in one spell on his return Test; Abdul Razzak batted at 3 against that Aussie attack on a gloomy Leeds morning & made 64 in a effectively WC QF game, then followed it up with a MoS performance in WSC within 2 years of debut in a tournament where at least half a dozen ATG played at their prime; Saqline Mushtaq took 23 wickets in three Tests in his first tour of India with 4 5fors and 2 10fors; Shoaib won a Test on his debut at Eden silencing 80K home fans with his express pace; Mo Zahid took 11 wickets to level a Test series against Kiwis on debut; Mo Wasim was one of the batsmen of a very low scoring WSC of 1997 within 3 months of debut - instrumental in his team’s trophy ........ I can go on.

That was past - present is PP hype for talunt .... slogging a T20 fifty against T20 reserves of English attack, high average speed in a series for a bowling average of 70 with economy close to 4; in total 3 wickets in Australia in two Tests ..... and not to mention the Kluesner or Shakibisque all-round talunt...

..... hope this post doesn’t encourage PP trolls here.

 

[PakPremi]

Good post MMHS some lovely memories,but for your last paragraph. Who says the likes of Haider Ali won't do well in other formats too. England reserve is just an excuse the so called reserve bowlers bowled better than woods and Archers in T20. Pak too have many promising batsmen that need proper grooming and oppprtunities.

 

[MMHS]

Good post MMHS some lovely memories,but for your last paragraph. Who says the likes of Haider Ali won't do well in other formats too. England reserve is just an excuse the so called reserve bowlers bowled better than woods and Archers in T20. Pak too have many promising batsmen that need proper grooming and oppprtunities.

I hope so bro - no hard feeling. But, just don’t have the confidence anymore. PAK cricket’s driving force these days is T20s and nurturing ground is tape ball cricket - miracles don’t happen in sports.

 

[leg-side-flick]

I pointed out on this forum that no pakistani fast bowler has taken 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis. Fast bowlers have come, performed well initially and then disappeared.

The cause of this dissappearing act is not known. And it will not be known unless someone acknowledges that the problem exists.

No reverse swing

 

[PakPremi]

I hope so bro - no hard feeling. But, just don’t have the confidence anymore. PAK cricket’s driving force these days is T20s and nurturing ground is tape ball cricket - miracles don’t happen in sports.

Of course that is why Pak cricket structure is changing to more professionilism and more competition. There is every reason to be hopeful, it may take 5 years but it will happen. Insha Allah as there is plenty of talent. Just need to get rid of few seniors lurking and Misbah, ashe is selection is biased toward seniors and his mates.

 

[Saj]

With the population that pakistan has and the popularity of cricket, pakistan will always have guys with ability coming in. But they come and they go.

I pointed out on this forum that no pakistani fast bowler has taken 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis. Fast bowlers have come, performed well initially and then disappeared.

The cause of this dissappearing act is not known. And it will not be known unless someone acknowledges that the problem exists.

The situation regarding the batting is even worse than the current situation regarding bowlers.....but that's for another thread.

 

[PakPremi]

Who exactly? Kohli Rohit Rahul Warner Abdv Smith Williamson ? Who?

A few English batsmen like Buttler and Morgan played a few matches for psl once.

I am not even talking about local talent like Gill Shaw Samson and co.

Archer was instrumental in winning a WC for his country. Yesterday he went fir 11 and over in the ipl.

Why talk about Indian players when you know they cannot play in PSL. Players like Mccullum, Watson, Gayle, Russell, Pollard, Morgan, Malan, Delport, ABD, Hales, Roy and many more have played IPL as well as PSL. Many of them do not find scoring as easy IN PSL as they do in IPL.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The situation regarding the batting is even worse than the current situation regarding bowlers.....but that's for another thread.

Batting was never the strong point of Pakistan.

I am amazed that no one wants to look into the disappearance of great bowlers.

 

[shamaan]

Of course that is why Pak cricket structure is changing to more professionilism and more competition. There is every reason to be hopeful, it may take 5 years but it will happen. Insha Allah as there is plenty of talent. Just need to get rid of few seniors lurking and Misbah, ashe is selection is biased toward seniors and his mates.

It's already getting rid of some players in fact the players who bo they are not good enough will stop playing

 

[shamaan]

Batting was never the strong point of Pakistan.

I am amazed that no one wants to look into the disappearance of great bowlers.

Maybe cuz cricket was starved of cricket for 10 years maybe pitches

 

[tyron_woodley]

In India, cricket is batting. For most part of rural areas , that is true. If you play a game of cricket and only do bowling and Fielding, then that means you did not get the reward for your work. Batting is the ultimate prize in a game of cricket. Bowling is just work and no play.
Hope that explains.

sounds to be like they want to be lazy pri*cks and not work hard and strive for elite level fitness to me.

I hope that's not the case.

 

[Hasan123]

Shaw looks like a special talent. Looking forward to seeing his development.

 

[hitthestump]

Batting was never the strong point of Pakistan.

I am amazed that no one wants to look into the disappearance of great bowlers.

I think Pakistan's batting history is underrated. Plenty of big names have come through.

The bowling deterioration is pretty laughable. Pakistan have been riding the horse of the 2 W's for so long they forgot to produce anyone else. The quantity is there but the quality isn't.