India lacked a quality third seamer at Lord's and that hurt them : Gautam Gambhir

[UN talkz]

Former India opener Gautam Gambhir has expressed his disappointment with the current team’s lack of preparation ahead of an important tour of England. In a conversation with The Quint, Gambhir also expressed his bemusement with the strange combinations that the team management has put forth for an important Test series like this one.

“More than the results, the preparation has not been the greatest. Red ball and white ball cricket are entirely different. You’ve got to play practice games where bowlers and batsmen get decent practice opportunities,” he said.

“India needs to decide whether Pandya’s a bowling or batting all-rounder. Test cricket is played with genuine all-rounders and not bits and pieces cricketers; look at Ben Stokes – he can win you a match on his own,” the former opener contended on the lack of a skilled display by Hardik Pandya and the need to have a genuine bowling all-rounder in the team.

“In the last game, we could have won with an effective third seamer. We had England at 131/5/. We could have them on the mat considering we had put them in a precarious situation,” Gambhir reckoned.

“Performances can keep you in the dressing room. Reputations don’t matter. However, if you pick someone you gotta give him a longer rope. If you pick someone, give him some opportunities,” Gambhir said about his Delhi team-mate Shikhar Dhawan being dropped frequently from the opening slot.

On the current state of test cricket, Gambhir expressed hope. “Results are good for Test cricket and that is what we are witnessing these days. There are fewer draws and that is in the interest of the game.”

“I hope India bounces back. There could be three results waiting in the wings. Hopefully, the batters can complement the bowlers,” he signed off expressing hope about a revival in the fortunes of India going forward.

http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/...ords-and-that-hurt-them-gautam-gambhir-736146

 

[UN talkz]

They also missed an opener like Gambhir who avgs 12 in england

 

[Abdullah719]

They also missed an opener like Gambhir who avgs 12 in england

To be fair, he would have been an upgrade on Vijay and Rahul who are averaging 6.5 and 8.75 so far.

 

[Divergent Gujjar]

LOL. Yeah that's the reason why they lost. What about that ishant trundler sharma's performance?

 

[BD-fan]

This is the problem when a batsman trying to pinpoint a problem of a team. They always point to the bowlers.

India in this test series scored 274, 162, 107, 130. The first 274 was all Kohli's heroics and England's drop catches. Otherwise, it should have been below 200 as well. You expect the bowlers win it for you in a foreign condition since these are not remotely close to numbers that can draw a test?

3rd seamer would have made a difference? Really?

Can't agree with GG at all.

 

[Pakhs]

3rd Seamer would have definitely helped with Pandya 4th seamer. Would they have won? no

 

[troodon]

Bowling was poor as it is expected. Without BK and to some extent Bumrah, the bowling lacks venom in these conditions.

What is poor is the batting. Spineless display from Vijay and Rahane who are considered Test specialists.

Sam Curren has out batted every Indian batsman except Kohli. That is where the series is lost.

Also, India's 2nd and 3rd best batsmen this series are Ashwin and Pandya. If these 2 are outscoring the likes of Vijay/Dhawan/Pujara/Rahane, then there is no hope for Indian batting.

No point in blaming IPL because, the IPL stars are actually outperforming the Test specialists.

 

[MenInG]

“India needs to decide whether Pandya’s a bowling or batting all-rounder. Test cricket is played with genuine all-rounders and not bits and pieces cricketers

Seems that he also hates India cricket like Holding!

 

[PakLFC]

Lacked an effective and good opener as well. Don't know why Gambhir himself and Waseem Jaffer for that matter were omitted from the team.

 

[Justcrazy]

India need to play three pacers , specialist pacers.

There is no doubt about it.

 

[Dagestani_Eagle]

Seems that he also hates India cricket like Holding!

He 's a certified Bhakht.

 

[ads101]

Needs to be a proper third seamer I agree. In England conditions is a must. It's funny Pakistan think they need four seamers, India think they can get away with two.

Two spinners was a great strat for the ODIs I think, but doesn't work in tests in England.

 

[Minnowbasher]

No matter how many bowlers you have you wouldn't have won with 107 and 130 on the board

 

[troodon]

An important piece that people are missing is, India does not even have 1 swing bowler in their team.

Ishant is a hit the deck bowler. Totally wastes the conditions.
Shami is good with old ball where he can reverse it.
Yadav is another hit the deck bowler.
Bumrah is not a swing bowler either.

The most successful bowlers for England are James Anderson and Sam Curran. Both can swing the ball miles when there is good cloud cover. Anderson can swing the ball at pace while Curran is slightly slower, he is very accurate.

The loss of BK is critical. Without him in the lineup, there is not a single bowler in Indian lineup that can exploit the conditions in England. Even Praveen Kumar did very well in 2012 when India toured England at gentle pace, but he was getting the ball to swing.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Said the same thing in the match thread. Pandya should be dropped and atleast 3 pacers should play in the next test.

 

[Rahul1]

Lacked an effective and good opener as well. Don't know why Gambhir himself and Waseem Jaffer for that matter were omitted from the team.

Wait what?

 

[PakLFC]

Wait what?

What happened to Gambhir and Jaffer?

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

I despise him for his views against Pakistan
but
Gambo is the best captain India never had. Tactically sound and a real fighter. India won 2 wc finals thanks largely to him. Underrated player.

 

[MMHS]

“In the last game, we could have won with an effective third seamer. We had England at 131/5/. We could have them on the mat considering we had put them in a precarious situation,”

This only reiterates my thought - in India, you can never criticize their Gods, the batsmen. It has to be the bowlers always. Batsmen always win the game, bowlers lose it.

Long back, I watched a game in NZ, where NZ got IND all-out on Day 1 for 105. Gavaskar & Bhogle took their frustration out of Indian pacers in constant rant - "Indian pacers can't do it even on best conditions", "It's all about batting or bust", "batsmen can't pull team every time - bowlers have to back them and IND pacers just can't do that"; "game is almost gone if batsmen don't put runs - we don't have bowlers to bail out few bad batting days" ... Next morning Zak took a 5for and IND got a 10 run lead (NZ all-out 95)!!!! IND started 2nd innings under bright sunshine and got bundled for 120 or so .... this time entire rant went to the condition and curator.....

In similar time, WIN put IND at Bridgetown, and got them all-out 102 by tea - same people in commentary box blasted bowlers for not keeping WIN 1st innings close on favorable condition on 2nd day. In fact, I was stunned to hear that - "bowlers shouldn't have allowed Lara & tail to add 60+, in that famous 81 all-out Test.........................."


In all reality, even if IND bowlers got ENG all-out for 131, still Poms would have won it chasing may be around 80. There is absolutely no reason to use distractions here, when the highest scorer in both innings at Lord's was Ashwin and Pandeya 2nd highest in 2nd innings. At the start of the series, Kohli had a Test average of ~55, Pujara ~52, Rahne ~46, Dhawan ~45, Vijay ~43 & Rahul ~42; these players are hyped to the moon for their batting class - then 4 innings are 274, 164, 107 & 130 with Ashwin being highest scorer at Lord's in both innings.

Obviously, there is no bias here from Gambhir (& no hate from MMHS, trust me).

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Wait what?

Yeah gambhir avgs 12 in england, but he was a better batsman than vijay.
Gambhir's avg :
In South Africa :60
In New Zealand :89
But sadly he isn't the same anymore.

 

[Buffet]

Indians need to score some runs otherwise even 5 seamers will be useless.

 

[Stewie]

An important piece that people are missing is, India does not even have 1 swing bowler in their team.

Ishant is a hit the deck bowler. Totally wastes the conditions.
Shami is good with old ball where he can reverse it.
Yadav is another hit the deck bowler.
Bumrah is not a swing bowler either.

The most successful bowlers for England are James Anderson and Sam Curran. Both can swing the ball miles when there is good cloud cover. Anderson can swing the ball at pace while Curran is slightly slower, he is very accurate.

The loss of BK is critical. Without him in the lineup, there is not a single bowler in Indian lineup that can exploit the conditions in England. Even Praveen Kumar did very well in 2012 when India toured England at gentle pace, but he was getting the ball to swing.

How would you classify bhumrah at the moment?

 

[Stewie]

“In the last game, we could have won with an effective third seamer. We had England at 131/5/. We could have them on the mat considering we had put them in a precarious situation,”

This only reiterates my thought - in India, you can never criticize their Gods, the batsmen. It has to be the bowlers always. Batsmen always win the game, bowlers lose it.

Long back, I watched a game in NZ, where NZ got IND all-out on Day 1 for 105. Gavaskar & Bhogle took their frustration out of Indian pacers in constant rant - "Indian pacers can't do it even on best conditions", "It's all about batting or bust", "batsmen can't pull team every time - bowlers have to back them and IND pacers just can't do that"; "game is almost gone if batsmen don't put runs - we don't have bowlers to bail out few bad batting days" ... Next morning Zak took a 5for and IND got a 10 run lead (NZ all-out 95)!!!! IND started 2nd innings under bright sunshine and got bundled for 120 or so .... this time entire rant went to the condition and curator.....

In similar time, WIN put IND at Bridgetown, and got them all-out 102 by tea - same people in commentary box blasted bowlers for not keeping WIN 1st innings close on favorable condition on 2nd day. In fact, I was stunned to hear that - "bowlers shouldn't have allowed Lara & tail to add 60+, in that famous 81 all-out Test.........................."


In all reality, even if IND bowlers got ENG all-out for 131, still Poms would have won it chasing may be around 80. There is absolutely no reason to use distractions here, when the highest scorer in both innings at Lord's was Ashwin and Pandeya 2nd highest in 2nd innings. At the start of the series, Kohli had a Test average of ~55, Pujara ~52, Rahne ~46, Dhawan ~45, Vijay ~43 & Rahul ~42; these players are hyped to the moon for their batting class - then 4 innings are 274, 164, 107 & 130 with Ashwin being highest scorer at Lord's in both innings.

Obviously, there is no bias here from Gambhir (& no hate from MMHS, trust me).

On a different thread I said the same thing and your countrymen jumped down my throat.

India really lost the two tests due to their bowling mostly, yes the batting was not upto par but in the first test in particular the bowling as always let them down. India never had the fast bowling to win in such conditions.

They are missing Bhubaneswar who was best suited for these conditions

 

[gazza619]

Completely agree with Gambhir.
If I was an Indian selector I would have brought back Rohit Sharma and Yuvraj Singh and rested Bhuvenesh Kumar from pointless T20s and ODIs. You need a leggie against the English so Chahal would have been my pick.
1. Dhawan
2. Sharma
3. Pujara
4. Kohli
5. Rahane
6. Singh
7. Pant
8. Kumar
9. U Yadav
10. Chahal
11. Shami

 

[troodon]

How would you classify bhumrah at the moment?

Bumrah is a good support bowler to Shami and BK in countries like SA and England.

Ishant and Yadav are only there because both BK and Bumrah are injured.

The best thing about Bumrah is his ability to bowl jaffas out of no where. He is also good with old ball and does not leak runs like Ishant and Yadav.

Ideally I prefer this bowling attack for England and SA.
BK/Shami/Bumrah/Ashwin/Pandya.

Pandya is not your 3rd bowler. He is a a decent 4th bowler who can give breathing time to the main strike bowlers and even get the occasional wicket.

People are hating on Pandya's bowling, but to me he is a batting allrounder. He had a pretty decent SA Test series where he scored some useful runs and also got some crucial wickets.

Pandya is not the problem. To me he is one of the few players who was playing with confidence in this tour. Much better than Rahane, Vijay and Rahul.

 

[MMHS]

On a different thread I said the same thing and your countrymen jumped down my throat.

India really lost the two tests due to their bowling mostly, yes the batting was not upto par but in the first test in particular the bowling as always let them down. India never had the fast bowling to win in such conditions.

They are missing Bhubaneswar who was best suited for these conditions

I am not responsible for my countryman's comment , but personally I can say, I didn't find any fault of the bowlers. They bowled exceptionally well as long as they could carry - here what GG is missing is the respective batting quality. It's not Shami or Ishant's (Pandeya as well - he bowled decent) bowling poor, ENG batsmen applied far better than much vaunted Indian line-up and eventually ran with the game. Also, one has to understand that when you are shot down on nose for 107, bowlers can't attack much in fear of run drain and unless batsmen throws wicket, with an ODI like field you can't take 10 wickets on a decent Test track. 3rd pacer, JB or BK instead of Yadav - could have made ENG all-out for 250, even 200 ... still match was gone on 1st (2nd) day.

Gambhir has been IPL Captain for few years, has played FC cricket for 2 decades and has played for IND, long enough to know every word I wrote here - but he can't risk pointing fingers to Kohli or other batsmen - first BCCI will gag him and then sponsors/media will cost him financially. Indian media doesn't allow any negative connotation to touch their super stars, which might effect drop of merchandise value for their brand ambassadors ...... truth is, despite that Birmingham Test, Kohli's overall average in ENG is 26, but you'll never hear that from any analyst.

It's Ishant's fault that he cost @4/over at Lord's defending 107 (must have to be a dream wicket for seemers, otherwise that envying batting line-up can't get bundled out for 107), though he is the guy who was instrumental in setting a target of 194 in 1st Test, which batsmen bolted on a wicket more Indian than English, and he is the guy who won the last Test at Lord's, 4 years back.

I'll end with one more gem here - in 1998, IND had 5 batsmen averaging over 45 then + Robin Sing in his only Test & Mongia opening, yet they failed to chase 238 against Streak & Olonga at Harare. In that Test, in 3rd afternoon, ZIM batsmen put something like 200/2 or 3 at about 3.5 to recover a 60+ deficit, next morning Kumble & Srinath took remaining wickets in morning session to set a target like 238, which they failed - Harsha, Gavaskar & Shastri almost verbally r***d bowlers to allow ZIM's running with the game on 3rd afternoon - these guys are good in English, won't put direct words that you can catch them, but their verbal antics was nauseating.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ndia-only-test-india-tour-of-zimbabwe-1998-99

Gambhir is much better here, but guy is a bit too blunt - can't play with words like those 3.

 

[Stewie]

I am not responsible for my countryman's comment , but personally I can say, I didn't find any fault of the bowlers. They bowled exceptionally well as long as they could carry - here what GG is missing is the respective batting quality. It's not Shami or Ishant's (Pandeya as well - he bowled decent) bowling poor, ENG batsmen applied far better than much vaunted Indian line-up and eventually ran with the game. Also, one has to understand that when you are shot down on nose for 107, bowlers can't attack much in fear of run drain and unless batsmen throws wicket, with an ODI like field you can't take 10 wickets on a decent Test track. 3rd pacer, JB or BK instead of Yadav - could have made ENG all-out for 250, even 200 ... still match was gone on 1st (2nd) day.

Gambhir has been IPL Captain for few years, has played FC cricket for 2 decades and has played for IND, long enough to know every word I wrote here - but he can't risk pointing fingers to Kohli or other batsmen - first BCCI will gag him and then sponsors/media will cost him financially. Indian media doesn't allow any negative connotation to touch their super stars, which might effect drop of merchandise value for their brand ambassadors ...... truth is, despite that Birmingham Test, Kohli's overall average in ENG is 26, but you'll never hear that from any analyst.

It's Ishant's fault that he cost @4/over at Lord's defending 107 (must have to be a dream wicket for seemers, otherwise that envying batting line-up can't get bundled out for 107), though he is the guy who was instrumental in setting a target of 194 in 1st Test, which batsmen bolted on a wicket more Indian than English, and he is the guy who won the last Test at Lord's, 4 years back.

I'll end with one more gem here - in 1998, IND had 5 batsmen averaging over 45 then + Robin Sing in his only Test & Mongia opening, yet they failed to chase 238 against Streak & Olonga at Harare. In that Test, in 3rd afternoon, ZIM batsmen put something like 200/2 or 3 at about 3.5 to recover a 60+ deficit, next morning Kumble & Srinath took remaining wickets in morning session to set a target like 238, which they failed - Harsha, Gavaskar & Shastri almost verbally r***d bowlers to allow ZIM's running with the game on 3rd afternoon - these guys are good in English, won't put direct words that you can catch them, but their verbal antics was nauseating.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ndia-only-test-india-tour-of-zimbabwe-1998-99

Gambhir is much better here, but guy is a bit too blunt - can't play with words like those 3.

So what you are saying is that India’s bowling is poor but their away batting is also poor?

Or is it just bad in England or Zimbabwe as well? Sorry I kind of struggled locating your point in your post..

From what I can logically derive from your post is that this is normal behavior for the Indian team and their batting is over rated..

But how is it then that they have performed reasonably well in other countries except maybe England and Inam not sure what their record is in NZ, basically two places where the ball moves about.. they have not won a test series in Australia but at least they didn’t capitulate timidly in the last series.. how about SA.. have they won a series or tests there in the last 7-8 years?

 

[giri26]

So what you are saying is that India’s bowling is poor but their away batting is also poor?

Or is it just bad in England or Zimbabwe as well? Sorry I kind of struggled locating your point in your post..

From what I can logically derive from your post is that this is normal behavior for the Indian team and their batting is over rated..

But how is it then that they have performed reasonably well in other countries except maybe England and Inam not sure what their record is in NZ, basically two places where the ball moves about.. they have not won a test series in Australia but at least they didn’t capitulate timidly in the last series.. how about SA.. have they won a series or tests there in the last 7-8 years?

India drew Test series in SA in 2010 (Which is a better result than any subcontinent team there in a long time), India came close to winning a Test 2013 and lost the series 1-0 after drawing one Test. India won a Test in 2018 after being competitive in the other 2 Tests. India somehow play reasonably well in SA. They might have not won a series but they came very close in 2010 where the dominated the final Test only to be thwarted by Kallis. Same in Australia in 2003/04, came close to winning the series but couldn't close it out on the final day. England though we have struggled post 2011. Before 2011, we drew the series in England in 2002 and won the series in England in 2007. Since 2011 our Test team has gone downhill away from India. The last competitive Test series we played in SENA countries is in South Africa 2010 when we drew 1-1. We haven't played very badly in NZ except for that one series in 2003. We won the series in 2009, lost 1-0 in 2014 (dominated the 2nd Test before McCullum scored that triple).

 

[MMHS]

So what you are saying is that India’s bowling is poor but their away batting is also poor?

Or is it just bad in England or Zimbabwe as well? Sorry I kind of struggled locating your point in your post..

From what I can logically derive from your post is that this is normal behavior for the Indian team and their batting is over rated..

But how is it then that they have performed reasonably well in other countries except maybe England and Inam not sure what their record is in NZ, basically two places where the ball moves about.. they have not won a test series in Australia but at least they didn’t capitulate timidly in the last series.. how about SA.. have they won a series or tests there in the last 7-8 years?

In short - Indian bowlers hardly get credit and often over criticized, just like this time at Lord's. Here, Gambhir has done the same - stating that one extra bowler could have turned a 159 runs innings defeat suggests 2 pacers there let down the team (or they were not sufficient enough), when reality is a massive let down by batsmen. And, that has been the story more or less since I have started watching cricket. Personally, I think IND attack is quite decent and it had delivered more than the credit it gets, while opposite for batting and one major reason for that is face value for commercials.

 

[Stewie]

India drew Test series in SA in 2010 (Which is a better result than any subcontinent team there in a long time), India came close to winning a Test 2013 and lost the series 1-0 after drawing one Test. India won a Test in 2018 after being competitive in the other 2 Tests. India somehow play reasonably well in SA. They might have not won a series but they came very close in 2010 where the dominated the final Test only to be thwarted by Kallis. Same in Australia in 2003/04, came close to winning the series but couldn't close it out on the final day. England though we have struggled post 2011. Before 2011, we drew the series in England in 2002 and won the series in England in 2007. Since 2011 our Test team has gone downhill away from India. The last competitive Test series we played in SENA countries is in South Africa 2010 when we drew 1-1. We haven't played very badly in NZ except for that one series in 2003. We won the series in 2009, lost 1-0 in 2014 (dominated the 2nd Test before McCullum scored that triple).

So it’s decent but not what you expect from a top test team or the top batting team of the world.. looking at it, it’s not yards ahead of Pakistan and Sri Lanka.. And if you take into account their failure in england, it’s about the same if not worse than Pakistan.

I still think the main reason behind it is their bowling.. if you guys had half decent pacemen, you would be winning these series you guys have been drawing in my opinion.. yes there is no excuse for the terrible performance in this england series but overall I think the impotent bowling should take the blame...

 

[giri26]

In short - Indian bowlers hardly get credit and often over criticized, just like this time at Lord's. Here, Gambhir has done the same - stating that one extra bowler could have turned a 159 runs innings defeat suggests 2 pacers there let down the team (or they were not sufficient enough), when reality is a massive let down by batsmen. And, that has been the story more or less since I have started watching cricket. Personally, I think IND attack is quite decent and it had delivered more than the credit it gets, while opposite for batting and one major reason for that is face value for commercials.

Lords Test was completely the batsman's fault and weird decision by the captain to play Kuldeep ahead of Umesh. Nothing to do with the rest of the bowling attack. The Indian batting is poor and will struggle to win Tests/Series unless something is done about the same.

 

[badxhah]

The irony of the current situation is that barring the Lords test Indian bowlers for the past 5 tests SA and ENG have been taking 20 wickets and bowling the test side out.Its their batting line up which has failed.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Sure,blame the bowlers.

Yes,India needed a third seamer,but that would not have won them the game.Their poor batting deserves more of the blame.

 

[RamLakhan]

It would have probably avoided innings defeat, rain was not enough to draw the match!

 

[TeamPak95]

No Rana jee to hold up one end