India withdraws from (T-50 PAK-FA) FGFA Stealth project, leaving Russia to go it alone

[Lonewarrior]

India has pulled out of its 11-year collaborative programme with Russia to build a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft

The decision has ramifications for both the IAF and the Russian aerospace industry

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has shelved its 11-year old collaborative Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme with Russia following enduring differences over its developmental cost and technological capabilities.

http://www.janes.com/article/79457/india-withdraws-from-fgfa-project-leaving-russia-to-go-it-alone

https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/india-pulls-out-of-joint-stealth-fighter-project-with-russia/

 

[gani999]

The IAF was unhappy with the PAK-FA from day 1. The thing was forced on them by the previous government. Good to see the IAF finally getting its way.

The Russians have been desperately looking for partners to share the already astronomical development costs. They have tried to rope in Brazil and South Korea to no avail.

Maybe Pakistan should seize the opportunity.

 

[Slim]

So much money went down to the drain.

IAF must be happy though, now that they can buy western weaponry with full impudence.

 

[Slim]

The IAF was unhappy with the PAK-FA from day 1. The thing was forced on them by the previous government. Good to see the IAF finally getting its way.

The Russians have been desperately looking for partners to share the already astronomical development costs. They have tried to rope in Brazil and South Korea to no avail.

Maybe Pakistan should seize the opportunity.

Pakistan is looking to partner Turkey and China for the next gen "Azm" fighter. Doubt we want to do anything with the cash strapped Russia.

 

[Varun]

After the experience of collaborating with the Ruskies on the Su-30MKI, this was the probable decision even before the project got started.

It's time we realize - better late than never - that Russia is not the Soviet Union and we better invest in other (reliable) partners for our strategic and military needs. France and Israel seem to be two of them we have made strides with over the past couple of decades.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Hello F35 to India .... Pakfa is a piece of junk, it is an Su-35 in a different shape, Russians wanted 7 Billion ransom from the Indians for source codes for this plane, you have to be kidding me. India is finally realizing current Russia is not the Soviet Union of the past with technological mind and might of Ukraine.

 

[Varun]

Hello F35 to India .... Pakfa is a piece of junk, it is an Su-35 in a different shape, Russians wanted 7 Billion ransom from the Indians for source codes for this plane, you have to be kidding me. India is finally realizing current Russia is not the Soviet Union of the past with technological mind and might of Ukraine.

Yeah okay. Let's believe it when we see it.

 

[the Great Khan]

what did I say? I told you guys this would happen nearly a year or two ago. Complete waste of money for India.

The f35 can be offered to india but first the US are insisting they buy other aircraft , either the F16 or the F18. The top brass are very reluctant to put in with the Americans after seeing what has happened to Pakistan. They would rather stick with the French and may even look at the Gripen.

Personally if I were India I would go with the Gripen to fulfil my requirement to replace the old migs...

The F35 could be an albatross around the necks of the indian airforce..

 

[the Great Khan]

The IAF was unhappy with the PAK-FA from day 1. The thing was forced on them by the previous government. Good to see the IAF finally getting its way.

The Russians have been desperately looking for partners to share the already astronomical development costs. They have tried to rope in Brazil and South Korea to no avail.

Maybe Pakistan should seize the opportunity.

no thanks..that giant gas guzzler is a money pit and we dont have money.

Our focus is on the blk 3 JF17 and project AZM which will be designed in collaboration with China and other partners..It will probably be based on the J20 but will be single engined..

we are sniffing around for a maritime fighter however but no way are we going for the PAKFA..

 

[Varun]

The f35 can be offered to india but first the US are insisting they buy other aircraft , either the F16 or the F18. The top brass are very reluctant to put in with the Americans after seeing what has happened to Pakistan. They would rather stick with the French and may even look at the Gripen.

Pretty much, and the IAF and Indian defence overall are happy with the status quo: India and USA are friends, not allies. Pakistan and USA are allies, not friends.

But the pace and bureaucracy behind our recruitment decisions - particularly of the air force - is another story altogether.

 

[the Great Khan]

Pretty much, and the IAF and Indian defence overall are happy with the status quo: India and USA are friends, not allies. Pakistan and USA are allies, not friends.

But the pace and bureaucracy behind our recruitment decisions - particularly of the air force - is another story altogether.

Yes indeed. I have heard about some of the issues around tendering and requirements. Overall though I don't think the Indians are too worried and neither are Pakistan. Both countries like to shout and scream but ultimately we both know engagement is not on the horizon hence why both countries are pretty relaxed about procurement. I wouldnt look to seriously into their bluster..

 

[Lonewarrior]

Hello F35 to India.

seriously ....

 

[Romali_rotti]

seriously ....

Yeah bro seriously .. If we dont get the f35 can we buy the JF thunder of you as an alternate ?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Yeah bro seriously .. If we dont get the f35 can we buy the JF thunder of you as an alternate ?

yeah sure, you will get F-35 only, IF you get the deal of F-16s of US, both AC with lots of strings attached.
just look how Turkey is getting the middle finger now by US.
and turkey is one of the countries which involves in F-35 project from its initial stages.
so Goodluck having US aircraft.

you dont need JF-17. LCA Tejas is enough alternative for you, it can beat F-22 ..

 

[Romali_rotti]

yeah sure, you will get F-35 only, IF you get the deal of F-16s of US, both AC with lots of strings attached.
just look how Turkey is getting the middle finger now by US.
and turkey is one of the countries which involves in F-35 project from its initial stages.
so Goodluck having US aircraft.

you dont need JF-17. LCA Tejas is enough alternative for you, it can beat F-22 ..

lol I dont want the F-35, you do not understand my sense of humor ... Much rather the Rafale, however JF-17 would be nice to have still

 

[Gabbar Singh]

India now says they will build their own fifth-generation fighter jet - given the track record of HAL the final product should be ready to fly by 2050.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Friday said it would stand behind the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in indigenous development of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft AMCA and basic trainer HTT-40 rather than importing such platforms.

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...n-5th-generation-fighter-aircraft-766380.html

 

[Napa]

India now says they will build their own fifth-generation fighter jet - given the track record of HAL the final product should be ready to fly by 2050.

India could develop a 5th generation fighter quickly, but first it has to make the defense industry more market oriented. Top engineering talent from India (IITs and elsewhere) goes to the US where they become marketing professors and teach their students how to sell more toothpaste.

Out of engineering college I worked at a public sector for a year for a pittance. Most of my classmates left for the US right away. If we had been paid ten times of what we were paid, we would have stayed behind and developed technology. The country would have recouped a hundred times of what they would have paid us and not paid tens of billions of dollars for foreign defense equipment. Government run firms are a plague for the country.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

India could develop a 5th generation fighter quickly, but first it has to make the defense industry more market oriented. Top engineering talent from India (IITs and elsewhere) goes to the US where they become marketing professors and teach their students how to sell more toothpaste.

Out of engineering college I worked at a public sector for a year for a pittance. Most of my classmates left for the US right away. If we had been paid ten times of what we were paid, we would have stayed behind and developed technology. The country would have recouped a hundred times of what they would have paid us and not paid tens of billions of dollars for foreign defense equipment. Government run firms are a plague for the country.

I think watching Swades once every week should be made compulsory for all engineering students in their four years of Bachelors education.

 

[rhony]

India could develop a 5th generation fighter quickly, but first it has to make the defense industry more market oriented. Top engineering talent from India (IITs and elsewhere) goes to the US where they become marketing professors and teach their students how to sell more toothpaste.

Out of engineering college I worked at a public sector for a year for a pittance. Most of my classmates left for the US right away. If we had been paid ten times of what we were paid, we would have stayed behind and developed technology. The country would have recouped a hundred times of what they would have paid us and not paid tens of billions of dollars for foreign defense equipment. Government run firms are a plague for the country.

It's not just that. You need competetion to get the best products. In the US, there was Boeing and Lockheed fighting for the 5th gen fighter and amazing technologies were invented. You need major companies with hundreds of suppliers competing against each other to develop breakthrough products. I don't think India is capable of that any time soon.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

HAL and others haven’t even been able to make an indigenous fighter jet engine yet despite trying for decades. Yet here we are being promised a 5th generation ‘made in india’ fighter jet.

 

[Napa]

I think watching Swades once every week should be made compulsory for all engineering students in their four years of Bachelors education.

This kind of Hollywood/Bollywood fantasy based brainwashing doesn't work in the real world. Our generation of engineers were not stupid, we watched how the civil service bureaucrats rather than the engineers had all the power in India. Asking engineering graduates to be noble and sacrifice for the country while the civil servants who didn't know anything about engineering monopolized power wasn't going to work no matter how many movies you showed the engineers.

Many of my classmates wanted to contribute to the country, but we didn't get the opportunity. Things are better now but India still has a long way to go.

 

[Napa]

It's not just that. You need competetion to get the best products. In the US, there was Boeing and Lockheed fighting for the 5th gen fighter and amazing technologies were invented. You need major companies with hundreds of suppliers competing against each other to develop breakthrough products. I don't think India is capable of that any time soon.

Agreed. It takes an entire "ecosystem" to be able to make technologically advanced goods.

Due to Nehruvian Socialism, we are about 40 years behind where we could have been. If we had gone the path of the East Asian tigers instead, we could have firms like Samsung or Toyota which do produce advanced technology. Also, we would have been part of the Western technological ecosystem if we had worked with them instead of adopting autarchic isolationist policies.