Indian court acquits all accused in Babri mosque demolition case

[MenInG]

Nearly thirty years after the Babri Masjid was razed by a mob in Uttar Pradesh, a special Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) court in Lucknow on Wednesday acquitted all 32 accused, including BJP leaders LK Advani, Murli Manohar Joshi and Uma Bharti, citing lack of evidence. BJP leaders LK Advani and Murali Manohar Joshi welcomed the verdict.

The court said there was no conclusive proof against the accused. “They have been acquitted for lack of evidence,” defence lawyer KK Mishra said. Twenty-six out of the 32 accused were present in the special court when the judgment was pronounced.

While BJP veterans skipped the proceedings, Vinay Katiyar, Dharamdas, Vedanti, Lallu Singh, Champat Rai, and Pawan Pandey were among the accused present in the court today. While Advani, Joshi, and co-accused Nritya Gopal Das are above 80 years of age Bharti and another accused, Satish Pardhan, are in hospital.

All 26 accused appeared before the court around 10.30 am. Outside the court, there was heavy police deployment and barricading. Media persons were not allowed to enter the court premises in the Qaiserbagh area of Lucknow.

The case relates to the razing of the disputed structure in Ayodhya on December 6, 1992.

==

All 32 accused — including BJP leaders LK Advani, Murli Manohar Joshi, former ministers Uma Bharti and Kalyan Singh — have been acquitted in Babri Masjid demolition case . Follow LIVE updates

13:16 (IST)30 SEP 2020

Will appeal against Babri verdict: AIMPLB secretary Zafaryab Jilani

AIMPLB secretary Zafaryab Jilani said that the judgment pronounced by the special CBI court in the Babri Demolition case is wrong. "We will appeal against the judgment in the High Court," said the lawyer who was also part of the Babri Action Committee.

13:15 (IST)30 SEP 2020

Babri verdict proves there was no conspiracy in Ayodhya on Dec 6: Murli Manohar Joshi

"It's a historic decision by the court. This proves that no conspiracy was hatched for December 6 incident in Ayodhya. Our program and rallies were not part of any conspiracy. We are happy, everyone should now be excited about Ram Mandir's construction," BJP leader Murli Manohar Joshi said after the verdict, news agency ANI reported. Joshi, along with LK Advani and Uma Bharti, are among the 32 who were acquitted today by the court. Joshi (86) was not present in the court today.

13:08 (IST)30 SEP 2020
Defence Minister Rajanth Singh welcomes Babri verdict

Welcoming the Babri verdict, Defence Minister Rajanth Singh tweeted, "It has been proven that justice triumphed however late it may be."

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...rli-manohar-joshi-uma-bharti-ayodhya-6641779/

 

[MenInG]

A special court has acquitted top leaders from India's governing party for their alleged role in the demolition of a mosque in 1992.

Former deputy prime minister LK Advani and BJP leaders MM Joshi and Uma Bharti had denied charges that they incited Hindu mobs to demolish the 16th Century Babri mosque in the town of Ayodhya.

The demolition sparked violence that killed some 2,000 people.

It was also a pivotal moment in the political rise of the Hindu right-wing.

Investigations - by a federal agency and an independent commission - had implicated top rung leaders of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), including former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, who died in 2018.

Charges were finally framed against 49 people, including Mr Advani, Mr Joshi and Ms Bharti, in 1993. Seventeen of them have since died.

On Wednesday, the court acquitted all the accused, saying there was insufficient evidence to prove that the demolition had been planned. The All India Muslim Personal Law Board has said it will appeal the verdict in the high court.

The three BJP leaders were not in court and watched the verdict through video conference. Media was not allowed to enter the courtroom.

The judgement is both historic and contentious, with political observes saying it's likely to add to the feeling of discontent and marginalisation among India's 200-million Muslim minority.

image captionThe vicinity of the court in Lucknow is quiet

It comes nearly a year after another historic judgment over the site of the mosque. Last year, the Supreme Court gave the disputed land to Hindus, ending the decades-long legal battle over ownership.

Ruling that the demolition of the mosque was "an egregious violation of the rule of law", the top court gave Muslims another plot of land in Ayodhya on which to construct a mosque.

Hindu mobs demolished the mosque, saying it was built on the ruins of a temple for Lord Ram - they believe the deity was born in Ayodhya.

In August, Prime Minister Narendra Modi laid the foundation stone for a Hindu temple at the site - a core promise made by his BJP and a hugely symbolic moment for its strident Hindu nationalist base.

Source BBC

 

[TrentDevil]

Lol, some of these have on record said that they demolished the mosque and are 'proud' of it

 

[MP2011]

Did anyone expect any other verdict from our judiciary?

 

[Madplayer]

) Proud Indian muslims will be prouder today.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Good news everyone - turns out the mosque just spontaneously combusted.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Lol, some of these have on record said that they demolished the mosque and are 'proud' of it

Advani later said it was the saddest day of his life lol.

Seeking to shed his image as a "hawk" responsible for the demolition of the Babri Mosque and scuttling the Agra peace talks, BJP President and Leader of Opposition L K Advani today described the December 6, 1992 Ayodhya incident as the "saddest" of his life, asserting that his "image and real persona" were not "very identical."

https://www.outlookindia.com/newswi...makeover-mode-regrets-babri-demolition/301707

 

[Ashmal]

The Indian courts should just close the case and announce that it was an 'Act of God' and no human was involved.

I wonder what took them 28 years to give this joke of a verdict.

 

[Madplayer]

Advani later said it was the saddest day of his life lol.



https://www.outlookindia.com/newswi...makeover-mode-regrets-babri-demolition/301707

See this tweet from last year:

"Pragya Singh Thakur, BJP's Bhopal candidate: Yes, I had gone there (Ayodhya), I had said it y'day too, not denying it. I had demolished the structure. I will go there & help in the construction of Ram temple, nobody can stop us from doing that, Ram rashtra hain, rashtra Ram hain"

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1119822044114219008?s=19

)
Pragya thakur: Yes, i helped in demolishing the mosque and i am proud of it.

Court: You shut up with your confessing and all. We know better than you. You innocent woman.

 

[BalluBalleBaaz]

Pathetic.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Good news everyone - turns out the mosque just spontaneously combusted.

Thing is this is the case for conspiracy of demolition. Not the actual demolition. Thats a separate case.

Tbh the prosecution self sabotaged the case by including people who were very difficult to connect with the conspiracy.

 

[Rajdeep]

Good news. Now just hope my long term dream comes true - Advani the next president of India. He would have been president this term itself but couldnt due to this case. Now he got a clean chit...he must be next president.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

You are dreaming of a 95 year old (as he’ll be in 2022) becoming President? What else, Tendulkar opening the batting at the 2023 cricket World Cup?

Good news. Now just hope my long term dream comes true - Advani the next president of India. He would have been president this term itself but couldnt due to this case. Now he got a clean chit...he must be next president.

 

[Kroll]

We've all seen this before with the ridiculous and biased land allocation judgement in Ayodhya.

No surprises here. India's criminal justice system has been compromised beyond repair by brazen political interference. It also points to the failure of all political parties to uphold justice.

The verdict will further deepen anxieties and a sense of injustice for India's Muslims.

 

[Madplayer]

Thing is this is the case for conspiracy of demolition. Not the actual demolition. Thats a separate case.

Tbh the prosecution self sabotaged the case by including people who were very difficult to connect with the conspiracy.

Yes, Advani's rath yatra was him just having a nice time travelling around the country. All spontaneous. No conspiracy

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes, Advani's rath yatra was him just having a nice time travelling around the country. All spontaneous. No conspiracy

That was no conspiracy. Haven't read the evidence or the judgement, but conspiracy involves secrecy. It was like maradona's hand of god.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It should never have went to court in the first place, as far as the nation was concerned those involved in the demolition were heroes righting centuries of wrongs. Babri Masjid was hurting the religious sentiments of the majority, and publicly trying those who brought it down, hurt them even more.

 

[Madplayer]

That was no conspiracy. Haven't read the evidence or the judgement, but conspiracy involves secrecy. It was like maradona's hand of god.

Conspiracy vs Spontaneity.
The mob that reached Babri masjid wasn't spontaneous. They didnt rain down from the sky. Which means they had conspired/planned to reach there along with the leaders. Unless you are saying that all those 100s of thousands of people had a dream to reach Babri Masjid on the same day at the same time.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Conspiracy vs Spontaneity.
The mob that reached Babri masjid wasn't spontaneous. They didnt rain down from the sky. Which means they had conspired/planned to reach there along with the leaders. Unless you are saying that all those 100s of thousands of people had a dream to reach Babri Masjid on the same day at the same time.

False binary. This was not spontaneous, but neither was it a conspiracy. There was no secret that janmasthan masjid would be demolished.

 

[Madplayer]

False binary. This was not spontaneous, but neither was it a conspiracy. There was no secret that janmasthan masjid would be demolished.

Yeah it should simply be called a master plan. What the heck was this in the court for

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Indian "democracy", their justice system and corrupt courts are a joke.

The whole world can see the joke India has become under a fascist-murderer ruler.

It should be apparent for anyone with an iota of critical thinking.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

So basically the Mosque collapsed due to poor foundation

 

[ahmedzee]

People went there, but the mosque just collapsed because of the resonance and trembling due to people walking towards it. Sound waves of their chatter and vibrations ensured mosque completely is destroyed. That's what the joke of a court (RSS Indian Court) is making us believe. What a joke!

 

[MenInG]

A special court in the Indian city of Lucknow has ruled that the demolition of the 16th-century Babri mosque in 1992 by Hindu rioters was not preplanned, acquitting senior leaders from the governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) over a lack of evidence.

The trial court of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) announced the verdict in the 28-year-old case involving 32 accused, including former Deputy Prime Minister Lal Krishna Advani, 92, – a one-time mentor of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

All the 32 people were accused of criminal conspiracy and inciting a mob to tear down the Mughal-era mosque in the northern town of Ayodhya, located about 135km (84 miles) east of the state capital, Lucknow, in 1992. The demolition sparked nationwide communal violence that left some 2,000 people dead, most of them Muslims.

Other senior leaders among those acquitted on Wednesday are former ministers Murli Manohar Joshi, Uma Bharti, Vinay Katiyar and former Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh Kalyan Singh.

This is an erroneous judgement as it is against evidence and against law

Handing down its verdict after a lengthy legal battle, the court said there was not enough evidence to directly tie any of the accused to the violence, defence lawyer Manish Kumar Tripathi said.

“The court did not accept the evidence, it was not strong enough,” Tripathi told reporters at the court.

IB Singh, another defence lawyer, said investigators could not prove the authenticity of audio and video evidence submitted in the case and the judge held that the case lacked legal evidence that the accused were part of any conspiracy.

Witness account
Senior journalist Ruchira Gupta witnessed the incident 28 years ago. She testified before the government-appointed inquiry commission headed by Justice Manmohan Singh Liberhan. The commission submitted its report 17 years later indicting senior leaders from the BJP.

They were deliberately enticing crowds to demolish the mosque and kept raising the slogan give one push and demolish the mosque. Is that not deliberate? There was no ambiguity in that slogan

SENIOR JOURNALIST RUCHIRA GUPTA

“I was an eyewitness to all that happened. On the day of the demolition, I was on the terrace with BJP and RSS [Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh] leaders like LK Advani, Uma Bharati, Murli Manohar Joshi, Mohan Bhagwat, among several others,” she told Al Jazeera.

“They were deliberately enticing crowds to demolish the mosque and kept raising the slogan ‘Give one push and demolish the mosque’. Is that not deliberate? There was no ambiguity in that slogan.

“On the day of the demolition, Advani kept announcing on microphone that security forces should not be allowed near the mosque. Is that not deliberate intent? Pravin Jain, a photographer, who was there on the day of the demolition said that he saw dress rehearsal of demolition of mosque. I have testified before Liberhan Commission and surprisingly CBI never asked me to testify which is proof that they had already decided the outcome.”

Reacting to the verdict, Advani said it was “a moment of happiness for all of us while Joshi said: “The truth has triumphed”.

Another defendant who was acquitted, Jai Bhagwan Goyal, said: “We had done nothing wrong. The whole of India is happy. Lord Ram’s temple is coming up in Ayodhya city.”

‘We will seek remedy’
The four BJP leaders acquitted – Advani, Joshi, Bharti and Singh – have said the mosque’s demolition was a spontaneous eruption by an angry Hindu crowd.

The court in its verdict said that “anti-social elements” tried to demolish the mosque and that the accused leaders tried to stop them, the New Delhi Television news channel reported, citing the court order.

The Muslim community will challenge the acquittals in an appeals court.

The court had ignored all the evidence in Wednesday’s case, said Zafaryab Jilani, a lawyer for the All India Muslim Personal Law Board.

“This is an erroneous judgement as it is against evidence and against law,” said Jilani. “We will seek remedy,” he told Reuters news agency.

Last year, India’s Supreme Court awarded the bitterly contested mosque site to Hindus, handing the BJP a victory to drive home its Hindu nationalist agenda.

On December 6, 1992, tens of thousands of Hindus gathered for a rally near the disputed site and groups of them climbed the mosque and demolished it with axes and hammers [File: Robert Nickelsberg/Liaison/Getty Images]
In its ruling last November, the top court ordered the entire disputed area of 2.77 acres (1.1 hectares) to be allocated to Hindus for the construction of the temple.
The verdict dealt a defeat to Muslims, who also claim the land. The court did say the demolition of the mosque was a criminal act. It also asked the government to provide five acres (two hectares) of land to Muslims at another location as a substitute for the land they had lost.


Last month, Modi inaugurated the construction of the temple, which was one of the promises the BJP made when the party was founded in the 1980s. The party rose to national prominence on the back of the temple movement.

Many Hindus believe the 16th-century mosque, named after Mughal emperor Babur, was built on the location of Ram’s birthplace in Ayodhya.

BJP welcomes the verdict
On December 6, 1992, tens of thousands of Hindus gathered for a rally near the disputed site and groups of them climbed the mosque and demolished it with axes and hammers.

A BJP spokesperson welcomed the verdict. “Today’s verdict clearly suggested that the court has carefully looked at all evidence and claimed that it was not preplanned conspiracy or any criminal intent by the senior BJP leaders,” Syed Zafar Islam, the BJP spokesperson, told Al Jazeera.

“In the past, there was political pressure to implicate senior leaders of the BJP who always denied any criminal intent. Their stand has been vindicated today.”

In a press release, the Pakistan Ministry of Foreign Affairs condemned the acquittal as “shameful”.

“This is yet another manifestation of the pliant judiciary under the extremist BJP-RSS regime in which extremist ‘Hindutva’ ideology takes precedence over all principles of justice and international norms,” the statement said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...s-all-accused-in-babri-mosque-demolition-case

 

[Abdullah719]

Wow what a surprise… nah not really.

 

[JaDed]

Thing is this is the case for conspiracy of demolition. Not the actual demolition. Thats a separate case.

Tbh the prosecution self sabotaged the case by including people who were very difficult to connect with the conspiracy.

Is that case on too? Since no witness maybe in that as well?

 

[cric_man]

Thing is this is the case for conspiracy of demolition. Not the actual demolition. Thats a separate case.

Tbh the prosecution self sabotaged the case by including people who were very difficult to connect with the conspiracy.

So you are saying that these fine people did not conspire to demolish but somehow were actual participants in the demolition.

I was old enough to remember LK Advani ginning up a crowd. If it was pre-planned how did hundred thousands of zealots from all over India spontenously show up one fine day to tear down the mosque with heavy equipment?

Such a sham of a verdict 28 years afterwrads.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Good news. Now just hope my long term dream comes true - Advani the next president of India. He would have been president this term itself but couldnt due to this case. Now he got a clean chit...he must be next president.

Its Not such a bad Idea TBH . If you really want a real solution to the Kashmir issue then they only people that can get it done are elected right-wing politicians. The Hindutva Brigade would burn sonia alive if she tried to even talk about kashmir .

 

[cricketjoshila]

We've all seen this before with the ridiculous and biased land allocation judgement in Ayodhya.

No surprises here. India's criminal justice system has been compromised beyond repair by brazen political interference. It also points to the failure of all political parties to uphold justice.

The verdict will further deepen anxieties and a sense of injustice for India's Muslims.

While the babri demolition case may have its lapses in investigation.

The ram janam bhoomi case was based on the scientific evidence like the Archaeological survey of India report.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Is that case on too? Since no witness maybe in that as well?

That case in on too. But its a low profile case.

The congress in its eagerness to box the Bjp in fluffed the case.

It was stupidity to try them for conspiracy as it is impossible to prove it unless you have eye witnessess whose presence in a consipracy meeting or video recording of such meetings were available.

The consipracy charges allowed larger number of people to be accused but made it difficult to prove.

 

[Zaz]

What a sham The courts should just come out and basically say

"They did it and what? We wont take any action against them We have been bought:

Chapter closed Get on with it"

 

[cricketjoshila]

So you are saying that these fine people did not conspire to demolish but somehow were actual participants in the demolition.

I was old enough to remember LK Advani ginning up a crowd. If it was pre-planned how did hundred thousands of zealots from all over India spontenously show up one fine day to tear down the mosque with heavy equipment?

Such a sham of a verdict 28 years afterwrads.

There was a pre planned rally to be held in Ayodhya. It was legally allowed. What happened during it is the question.

Whether these people had planned to use it as means to demolish the structure.

Or

The mob went out of control due to their speeches and the demolition took place.

Or

They initially made rousing speeches not realising that the mob will go out of control and demolish the structure.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes, Advani's rath yatra was him just having a nice time travelling around the country. All spontaneous. No conspiracy

Rath Yatra was in oct 1990.

Babri demolition in 1992.

 

[Bewal Express]

There was a pre planned rally to be held in Ayodhya. It was legally allowed. What happened during it is the question.

Whether these people had planned to use it as means to demolish the structure.

Or

The mob went out of control due to their speeches and the demolition took place.

Or

They initially made rousing speeches not realising that the mob will go out of control and demolish the structure.

The fact is that the Mosque was demolished and nobody has been held accountable. This verdict is not surprise to anyone, which judge is going to give a verdict against the fascists.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The fact is that the Mosque was demolished and nobody has been held accountable. This verdict is not surprise to anyone, which judge is going to give a verdict against the fascists.

There is a separate case for actual demolition.

This was for consipracy of demolition.

 

[Syed1]

Congrats to Indian Muslims.

 

[Bewal Express]

There is a separate case for actual demolition.

This was for consipracy of demolition.

And who was convicted for that?

 

[Romali_rotti]

Remarkable similarity.

Initially the Ram temple miraculously fell to the ground and only then the Babri Masjid was built.

Now

Same, Babri Masjid automatically fell to the ground and now a temple is going to go there.

 

[cric_man]

There was a pre planned rally to be held in Ayodhya. It was legally allowed. What happened during it is the question.

Whether these people had planned to use it as means to demolish the structure.

Or

The mob went out of control due to their speeches and the demolition took place.

Or

They initially made rousing speeches not realising that the mob will go out of control and demolish the structure.

What was th eobjective of that rally?

They showed up with heavy machinery just for a rally?
Either you are naive (doubt it) or just disingenuous.

 

[uberkoen]

Babri mosque: India's Muslims feel more abandoned than ever

Nearly three decades, 850 witnesses, more than 7,000 documents, photographs and videotapes later, a court in India found no-one guilty of razing a 16th-Century mosque which was attacked by Hindu mobs in the holy city of Ayodhya.

Among the 32 living accused were former deputy premier LK Advani, and a host of senior BJP leaders. Wednesday's court judgement acquitted them all, saying the destruction of the mosque in 1992 had been the work of unidentified "anti-socials" and had not been planned.

This was despite numerous credible eyewitness accounts that the demolition, which took just a few hours, had been rehearsed and carried out with impunity and the connivance of a section of the local police in front of thousands of spectators.

Last year, India's Supreme Court conceded it had been a "calculated act" and an "egregious violation of the rule of law".

So how do we explain the acquittals?

Generally the verdict is being seen as another indictment of India's sluggish and chaotic criminal justice system. Many fear it has been damaged beyond repair by decades of brazen political interference, underfunding and weak capacity.

But more specifically the verdict has thrown into sharp relief the increasing marginalisation of India's 200 million Muslims.

Under Narendra Modi's Hindu nationalist BJP government, the community has been pushed into a corner and feels more humiliated than at any time in the history of pluralist, secular India, hailed as the world's largest democracy since independence in 1947.

Mobs have lynched Muslims for eating beef or transporting cows, which are sacred to majority Hindus. Mr Modi's government has amended laws to fast track non-Muslim refugees from neighbouring countries. It has split the Muslim-majority state of Jammu and Kashmir and stripped it of its constitutional autonomy.
This year, Muslims were singled out and blamed for spreading the novel coronavirus after members of an Islamic group attended a religious gathering in Delhi. Larger Hindu religious gatherings during the pandemic received no such political, public or media opprobrium or scape-goating.

That's not all. Muslim students and activists have been picked up and thrown into prison for allegedly instigating riots over a controversial citizenship law in Delhi last winter, while many Hindu instigators went scot-free. The Babri verdict, many Muslims say, is just a continuation of this humiliation.

The sense of alienation is real. Mr Modi's party makes no bones about its Hindu majoritarian ideology. Popular news networks openly demonise Muslims. Many of India's once-powerful regional parties, which once stood by the community, appear to have abandoned them. The main opposition Congress is accused by critics of using Muslims cynically to harvest votes without providing much in return. The community itself has few leaders to speak up for it.

"Muslims are simply losing faith in the system. They feel cornered and feel the political parties, institutions and the media are failing them. There is a lot of despondency in the community," says Asim Ali, a research associate at the Centre for Policy Research, a Delhi-based think tank.

In truth, India has a long history of marginalising Muslims. They "carry a double burden of being labelled as 'anti-national' and as being 'appeased' at the same time", according to one report. But the irony is that, while many Indians have bought the Hindu nationalist bogey that Muslims are being unfairly rewarded, the community has not in fact benefitted from major socio-economic gains, say historians.
Muslims are disproportionately squeezed into ghettos in India's teeming cities. Their share in India's elite federal police officers force was below 3% in 2016, while Muslims make up more than 14% of the population. Only 8% of India's urban Muslims had jobs which paid a regular salary, less than double the national average, one report found.

Enrolment of children at primary school levels was high, but so were dropouts at high school, largely because of economic deprivation. Muslim representation in India's parliament have been declining consistently - below 5% in the elected lower house now, down from 9% in 1980. When the BJP swept to power in 2014, it was the first time a winning party did so without a single Muslim MP.

Mr Modi and his colleagues have consistently said their party doesn't discriminate against any religion. The prime minister has said he enjoys the support of many Islamic nations and his expansive welfare benefits reach every poor Indian, irrespective of religion or caste. For years, the BJP has described the liberal opposition parties as "pseudo secular".

Some believe there is truth in this allegation. As an example they point to the Communists who ruled West Bengal state in eastern India for more than three decades and were avowedly secular, ensuring the protection and security of Muslims, who form nearly a quarter of the state's population.

Yet, studies revealed that Muslims in Gujarat, a state marked by religious tension and sectarian politics, fared economically better and in human development indices than their counterparts in Bengal. "The market place is non religious in India. So in states like Gujarat where business thrives both Hindus and Muslims do well," says Mirza Asmer Beg, a professor of international relations, at Aligarh Muslim University.

But analysts say religious electoral competition practised by the BJP has led to the "otherisation" of Muslims. "How do you polarise? By making the other a threat to your identity," says political scientist Christophe Jaffrelot. He believes India is moving towards an "ethnic democracy", born out of ethnic nationalisation which implies a "strong sense of belonging and of superiority".

It's not all dark yet. There is the rise of a young and articulate middle class unencumbered by the ghosts of partition. The widespread protests against the citizenship law saw a large number of these articulate Muslim men and women taking to India's streets and breaking stereotypes of a cloistered and voiceless minority. Community coaching classes have sprung up, training young Muslims to prepare for India's prestigious and competitive civil service exams. "Many of the young Muslims do wear their identity on their sleeves in a positive way and are not afraid to voice their views," says Mr Ali.

But, in the end, the acquittals will only deepen anxieties and a sense of injustice among India's Muslims. "In many ways, it is an abandoned community. There's a feeling of powerlessness. Muslims have been exploited by both their own and Hindu leaders and all parties for years," says Zaheer Ali, a political scientist. "Poverty has made things worse."

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54356713

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Remarkable similarity.

Initially the Ram temple miraculously fell to the ground and only then the Babri Masjid was built.

Now

Same, Babri Masjid automatically fell to the ground and now a temple is going to go there.

There's been a temple supposed to go there for last 20 years and it still hasn't happened. Perhaps it fell down before the first brick got laid?

 

[cricketjoshila]

What was th eobjective of that rally?

They showed up with heavy machinery just for a rally?
Either you are naive (doubt it) or just disingenuous.

Heavy machinery? Can you show me the link that says heavy machinery was used?

There had been numerous rallies in Ayodhya for Ram mandir.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This case has been poorly handled.

The then govt went after "conspirators" not actual "demolishers" to fulfill a political agenda.

 

[MenInG]

Nearly three decades, 850 witnesses, more than 7,000 documents, photographs and videotapes later, a court in India found no-one guilty of razing a 16th-Century mosque which was attacked by Hindu mobs in the holy city of Ayodhya.

Among the 32 living accused were former deputy premier LK Advani, and a host of senior BJP leaders. Wednesday's court judgement acquitted them all, saying the destruction of the mosque in 1992 had been the work of unidentified "anti-socials" and had not been planned.

This was despite numerous credible eyewitness accounts that the demolition, which took just a few hours, had been rehearsed and carried out with impunity and the connivance of a section of the local police in front of thousands of spectators.

Last year, India's Supreme Court conceded it had been a "calculated act" and an "egregious violation of the rule of law".

So how do we explain the acquittals?

Generally the verdict is being seen as another indictment of India's sluggish and chaotic criminal justice system. Many fear it has been damaged beyond repair by decades of brazen political interference, underfunding and weak capacity.

But more specifically the verdict has thrown into sharp relief the increasing marginalisation of India's 200 million Muslims.

Under Narendra Modi's Hindu nationalist BJP government, the community has been pushed into a corner and feels more humiliated than at any time in the history of pluralist, secular India, hailed as the world's largest democracy since independence in 1947.

Mobs have lynched Muslims for eating beef or transporting cows, which are sacred to majority Hindus. Mr Modi's government has amended laws to fast track non-Muslim refugees from neighbouring countries. It has split the Muslim-majority state of Jammu and Kashmir and stripped it of its constitutional autonomy.

This year, Muslims were singled out and blamed for spreading the novel coronavirus after members of an Islamic group attended a religious gathering in Delhi. Larger Hindu religious gatherings during the pandemic received no such political, public or media opprobrium or scape-goating.

That's not all. Muslim students and activists have been picked up and thrown into prison for allegedly instigating riots over a controversial citizenship law in Delhi last winter, while many Hindu instigators went scot-free. The Babri verdict, many Muslims say, is just a continuation of this humiliation.

The sense of alienation is real. Mr Modi's party makes no bones about its Hindu majoritarian ideology. Popular news networks openly demonise Muslims. Many of India's once-powerful regional parties, which once stood by the community, appear to have abandoned them. The main opposition Congress is accused by critics of using Muslims cynically to harvest votes without providing much in return. The community itself has few leaders to speak up for it.

"Muslims are simply losing faith in the system. They feel cornered and feel the political parties, institutions and the media are failing them. There is a lot of despondency in the community," says Asim Ali, a research associate at the Centre for Policy Research, a Delhi-based think tank.

IMAGE COPYRIGHTREUTERS

image captionMuslim demonstrators protested against the citizenship law last year

In truth, India has a long history of marginalising Muslims. They "carry a double burden of being labelled as 'anti-national' and as being 'appeased' at the same time", according to one report. But the irony is that, while many Indians have bought the Hindu nationalist bogey that Muslims are being unfairly rewarded, the community has not in fact benefitted from major socio-economic gains, say historians.

Muslims are disproportionately squeezed into ghettos in India's teeming cities. Their share in India's elite federal police officers force was below 3% in 2016, while Muslims make up more than 14% of the population. Only 8% of India's urban Muslims had jobs which paid a regular salary, less than double the national average, one report found.

 

[Romali_rotti]

There's been a temple supposed to go there for last 20 years and it still hasn't happened. Perhaps it fell down before the first brick got laid?

Interesting possibility you mention there Cap. Anything is possible in the Ayodhya scenario...

 

[kaayal]

) Proud Indian muslims will be prouder today.

Proud Indian Muslims will be proud always. Loving the country has nothing to do with this rulling government and these poor court verdicts.

 

[kaayal]

This case has been poorly handled.

The then govt went after "conspirators" not actual "demolishers" to fulfill a political agenda.

Why conspirators are not responsible for this? Demolishers will always be the lower rung party workers.

All of them are criminals who have a lot of blood in their hands.

 

[Madplayer]

Proud Indian Muslims will be proud always. Loving the country has nothing to do with this rulling government and these poor court verdicts.

Ofcourse. I see Indian muslims "being proud" every day these days . But its interesting that you chose to mention that you're a proud Indian muslim rather than condemning your judiciary which is now a legal enforcer of facism.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why conspirators are not responsible for this? Demolishers will always be the lower rung party workers.

All of them are criminals who have a lot of blood in their hands.

The conspirators are not responsible for this because the hindus don't believe demolishing the mosque was a crime. Indian courts are there to provide the version of justice acceptable to Indian people, and majority of those agree with the demolition.

 

[Vegitto1]

I guess all we can do now is wait and hope that once the "Ram Mandir" goes up we repay the favour with interest.

 

[kaayal]

Ofcourse. I see Indian muslims "being proud" every day these days ��. But its interesting that you chose to mention that you're a proud Indian muslim rather than condemning your judiciary which is now a legal enforcer of facism.

I am not at all proud of anything in this world tbh. Just like how Kashmir is dear to you no matter who is ruling it, we will love our land and it’s people. And i agree with everything you said about this judiciary, my faith in it started losing long ago. I think i have said it in the previous Ayodhya verdict thread itself.

 

[cric_man]

Heavy machinery? Can you show me the link that says heavy machinery was used?

There had been numerous rallies in Ayodhya for Ram mandir.

I saw it live on TV. Bullzoders brought in while police constables stood nonchalantly with their lathis on the side eating bananas.

In the US, this is akin to "Yelling fire in a crowded theater".

Advani et al used this as rallying cry to gin up the zealots. And then once the dead is done, you can just wash your hands off everything.

 

[Madplayer]

I am not at all proud of anything in this world tbh. Just like how Kashmir is dear to you no matter who is ruling it, we will love our land and it’s people. And i agree with everything you said about this judiciary, my faith in it started losing long ago. I think i have said it in the previous Ayodhya verdict thread itself.

Very cute to draw parallels between Indian muslims and Kashmiris. We love Kashmir for completely different reasons. We didnt choose to be in the situation which we have been put in and we are proud because we haven't surrendered after decades of oppression. On the other hand i have no clue what exactly the "proud Indian muslims" are proud of. Indian muslims have been stripped off their dignity and are doing jack squat to get it back.

The "people" you claim to love chose this fate for you and you couldnt have possibly done anything to prevent it because the "people" you claim to love feel threatened by your existence and wouldn't stop until you are made subservient to them in every way possible. Now, i understand you have no option but to do your best to "believe" that this is just a temporary phase and it will pass because honestly, where will you run to if you accept this new reality and the fact that it will only get worse from here on? As a muslim, I have empathy for you, something we've never received from "proud Indian muslims".

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why conspirators are not responsible for this? Demolishers will always be the lower rung party workers.

All of them are criminals who have a lot of blood in their hands.

Its difficult to prove consipracy and easier to arrest demolishers who were actually caught doing the job.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I am not at all proud of anything in this world tbh. Just like how Kashmir is dear to you no matter who is ruling it, we will love our land and it’s people. And i agree with everything you said about this judiciary, my faith in it started losing long ago. I think i have said it in the previous Ayodhya verdict thread itself.

Long time ago you said that you agree that Hindus should get to build the ram temple in Ayodhya. The court ordered the same.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I saw it live on TV. Bullzoders brought in while police constables stood nonchalantly with their lathis on the side eating bananas.

In the US, this is akin to "Yelling fire in a crowded theater".

Advani et al used this as rallying cry to gin up the zealots. And then once the dead is done, you can just wash your hands off everything.

Please post a source corroborating what you said.

I watched isnt a credible source.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Very cute to draw parallels between Indian muslims and Kashmiris. We love Kashmir for completely different reasons. We didnt choose to be in the situation which we have been put in and we are proud because we haven't surrendered after decades of oppression. On the other hand i have no clue what exactly the "proud Indian muslims" are proud of. Indian muslims have been stripped off their dignity and are doing jack squat to get it back.

The "people" you claim to love chose this fate for you and you couldnt have possibly done anything to prevent it because the "people" you claim to love feel threatened by your existence and wouldn't stop until you are made subservient to them in every way possible. Now, i understand you have no option but to do your best to "believe" that this is just a temporary phase and it will pass because honestly, where will you run to if you accept this new reality and the fact that it will only get worse from here on? As a muslim, I have empathy for you, something we've never received from "proud Indian muslims".

You are proud because you committed a genocide and ethnic cleansing of hindus from the valley. You want indian muslims to support these acts?

Or may be you want them to support those globally banned terrorists who you call freedom fighters.

Or may be you want them to support your secessionist movement to create a muslim state where minorities will be third class citizens?

 

[Bigboii]

You are proud because you committed a genocide and ethnic cleansing of hindus from the valley. You want indian muslims to support these acts?
Or may be you want them to support those globally banned terrorists who you call freedom fighters.

Or may be you want them to support your secessionist movement to create a muslim state where minorities will be third class citizens?

So too can play this game

You are proud because the Indian army/police is raping Kashmiri women?
you are proud because Kashmir is an open air prison for months?
You are proud because a bunch of horny Indian guy were saying after the article (whatever the number) that know they'll get to "enjoy" fair Kashmiri women ?
You are proud because Indian army is commiting war crimes against Kashmiri civilians?


and funny thing is I am 90% sure you're actually proud of these things

 

[Madplayer]

You are proud because you committed a genocide and ethnic cleansing of hindus from the valley. You want indian muslims to support these acts?

Or may be you want them to support those globally banned terrorists who you call freedom fighters.

Or may be you want them to support your secessionist movement to create a muslim state where minorities will be third class citizens?

We are proud because even though India tried to ethnically cleanse pandits from Kashmir to malign our name, we still call for their return and for them to live among us.

"Globally banned terrorists" lol Modi the massacre man was banned from travelling to the US before the the saffron extremist society elected him to power. Once the tide shifts, these tags change automatically.

"Where Minorities will be third class citizen" : look who's talking whatever we become, we'll still treat minorities better than what Indians have done. That's how it has always been in Kashmir.

 

[Romali_rotti]

We are proud because even though India tried to ethnically cleanse pandits from Kashmir to malign our name,

India ethnically cleansed the Pandits ? When did this happen ?

we still call for their return and for them to live among us.

Yeah that's nice, bring them back so you can rape their women, kill their men and convert their women and kids.. Yeah for some reason, I don't think they want to live with you..

we'll still treat minorities better than what Indians have done. That's how it has always been in Kashmir.

Yeah that's how it has always been in Kashmir, as we saw them run for their lives and taking refuge in mainland India by the 1000s, leaving behind their belongings etc to be taken by the Kashmiri muslims.. We have seen how you treated the minorities in Kashmir, it was a work of art, I don't even think the most radicalized Hindutva has reached that level yet..

...

 

[cricketjoshila]

We are proud because even though India tried to ethnically cleanse pandits from Kashmir to malign our name, we still call for their return and for them to live among us.

"Globally banned terrorists" lol Modi the massacre man was banned from travelling to the US before the the saffron extremist society elected him to power. Once the tide shifts, these tags change automatically.

"Where Minorities will be third class citizen" : look who's talking whatever we become, we'll still treat minorities better than what Indians have done. That's how it has always been in Kashmir.

1. Malign your name? Muslims of the valley killed and drove out pandits. Thats the truth. Any pandit will tell you that. Now that the plan failed, you call for their return?

2. There is a difference between a visa ban and a ban on a terrorist. Read about it.

3. Yes yes we know how kashmiri muslims treat minorities'. Like Sikandar Butshikan? Or like you treated them in 1990? Which one?

 

[cricketjoshila]

So too can play this game

You are proud because the Indian army/police is raping Kashmiri women?
you are proud because Kashmir is an open air prison for months?
You are proud because a bunch of horny Indian guy were saying after the article (whatever the number) that know they'll get to "enjoy" fair Kashmiri women ?
You are proud because Indian army is commiting war crimes against Kashmiri civilians?


and funny thing is I am 90% sure you're actually proud of these things

Proud of army for protecting indias integrity and sovereignty. Proud that they stopped further killing of non muslims. Stopped a genocide.

Proud that every Indian and descendants of displaced Kashmiris can now settle in Kashmir.

You are clutching at straws by mentioning online comments. No one knows who commented.

Proud that Shias Buddhists Hindus and Sikhs can still live in J and K and have not been totally cleansed.

 

[kaayal]

Very cute to draw parallels between Indian muslims and Kashmiris. We love Kashmir for completely different reasons. We didnt choose to be in the situation which we have been put in and we are proud because we haven't surrendered after decades of oppression. On the other hand i have no clue what exactly the "proud Indian muslims" are proud of. Indian muslims have been stripped off their dignity and are doing jack squat to get it back.

The "people" you claim to love chose this fate for you and you couldnt have possibly done anything to prevent it because the "people" you claim to love feel threatened by your existence and wouldn't stop until you are made subservient to them in every way possible. Now, i understand you have no option but to do your best to "believe" that this is just a temporary phase and it will pass because honestly, where will you run to if you accept this new reality and the fact that it will only get worse from here on? As a muslim, I have empathy for you, something we've never received from "proud Indian muslims".

Blast your anger on us as much as you can. As a Kashmiri you have every right for this. But regarding the bolded part, i don’t live in the dumb cow belt area infact I live in one of the best place for Muslims in India. And here almost everyone are really proud of their country and religion. Reserve your empathy for that hopeless people in the North especially dalits andMuslims. It’s them who really needs it more than me.

 

[kaayal]

Long time ago you said that you agree that Hindus should get to build the ram temple in Ayodhya. The court ordered the same.

I don’t mind building a temple there but the court proceedings was really a farce especially the prosecution. At that time when i asked you about these criminals going scot free you said it’s a separate case and they will be punished there. Now what?

 

[Madplayer]

1. Malign your name? Muslims of the valley killed and drove out pandits. Thats the truth. Any pandit will tell you that. Now that the plan failed, you call for their return?

2. There is a difference between a visa ban and a ban on a terrorist. Read about it.

3. Yes yes we know how kashmiri muslims treat minorities'. Like Sikandar Butshikan? Or like you treated them in 1990? Which one?

Very sad that India facilitated the driving out of pandits and have been using them eversince for political mileage. Well at least the pandits know who to align with in order to milk more benefits. Can't blame them.

A ban is a ban. And look at the reason for the ban lol. One is a no name guy wearing a turban in some jungle and another is now the PM of India.

Well Kashmiris have treated minorities much better than any Maharaja has treated the majority Kashmiri muslims or how the Indian governments have been treating their minorities. Killing and displacing muslims is a norm in India.

 

[Madplayer]

Blast your anger on us as much as you can. As a Kashmiri you have every right for this. But regarding the bolded part, i don’t live in the dumb cow belt area infact I live in one of the best place for Muslims in India. And here almost everyone are really proud of their country and religion. Reserve your empathy for that hopeless people in the North especially dalits andMuslims. It’s them who really needs it more than me.

I'm just angry at how delusional Indian muslims have been since forever. And looking at your comments, boy you still aren't smelling the coffee. At the same time i really don't know what you could do even after smelling the coffee. This is a strange situation really.

And this must be a new low for Indian muslims to say, "Hey look, the muslims of South India are happy, its just those hopeless north Indian muslims who are suffering, dont club us with them"

Before this it was both North and south Indian muslims together saying, "hey look, muslims of India are happy, its just those evil Kashmiri muslims causing trouble, don't club us with them"

Yes, we always think it'll never happen to us, that neighbour who we have known for so long will never turn against us, that the fire is so far away that it will never reach us. Well guess what? Nah nevermind. I pray it never reaches you.

 

[kaayal]

I'm just angry at how delusional Indian muslims have been since forever. And looking at your comments, boy you still aren't smelling the coffee. At the same time i really don't know what you could do even after smelling the coffee. This is a strange situation really.

This is our issue. We will never truly understand each others position. Let’s agree to disagree here.


And this must be a new low for Indian muslims to say, "Hey look, the muslims of South India are happy, its just those hopeless north Indian muslims who are suffering, dont club us with them"

Whatever i said about being in the best place was in comparison to the rest of India. Here everyone lives a normal life irrespective of their religion, believe it or not. I cannot stress this anymore. I don’t think i can live this free by practicing my religion anywhere in India at the moment tbh. May be in TN or Hyderabad too. That’s it.

Before this it was both North and south Indian muslims together saying, "hey look, muslims of India are happy, its just those evil Kashmiri muslims causing trouble, don't club us with them"

I agree i was so naive while joining this forum. I thought whole India was like my village and my town. But that wasn’t the reality when I ventured out of my state. With age and experience, my views have also changed a lot. And come on, i have never said evil Kashmiri in my lifetime. We have always prayed for the innocent Kashmiri lives who are suffering in Jummah (also for Palestinians and Uyigurs). Just because I don’t shout out my lungs here, don’t assume i have no heart for you guys out there. Whatever i can do from here is just praying to Allah for everyone’s wellness and that am definitely doing.

Yes, we always think it'll never happen to us, that neighbour who we have known for so long will never turn against us, that the fire is so far away that it will never reach us. Well guess what? Nah nevermind. I pray it never reaches you.

Thank You for your prayers. I really appreciate that.

Bolded part.

 

[Hornbill]

Blast your anger on us as much as you can. As a Kashmiri you have every right for this. But regarding the bolded part, i don’t live in the dumb cow belt area infact I live in one of the best place for Muslims in India. And here almost everyone are really proud of their country and religion. Reserve your empathy for that hopeless people in the North especially dalits andMuslims. It’s them who really needs it more than me.

It's really shameful that kerala muslims didn't destroyed few temples in their neighborhood like pakistani and kashmiri muslims to avenge the destruction of babari masjid.

 

[srh]

so who demolish the mosque? aliens from outer space?

 

[Star_Coffee]

You are proud because you committed a genocide and ethnic cleansing of hindus from the valley. You want indian muslims to support these acts?

Or may be you want them to support those globally banned terrorists who you call freedom fighters.

Or may be you want them to support your secessionist movement to create a muslim state where minorities will be third class citizens?

Minorities are already 4th class citizens in India, most either is forced to display patriotism, praise the Hindu lords, or get killed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don’t mind building a temple there but the court proceedings was really a farce especially the prosecution. At that time when i asked you about these criminals going scot free you said it’s a separate case and they will be punished there. Now what?

Sister you are confusing.

1. Case of ram temple being built. If i am correct you seem to support it.

2. Demolition of the masjid case: i believe that the case has been handled poorly and its a miscarriage of justice.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Minorities are already 4th class citizens in India, most either is forced to display patriotism, praise the Hindu lords, or get killed.

Minorities have equal rights in India thats why their population has gone up significantly since independence.

Just because they are patriot and love their country and dont support the causes of muslim majority nation, doesn't mean its forced patriotism.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Bolded part.

Do you support Kashmiri secessionism and believe they should separate from India?

 

[Star_Coffee]

Minorities have equal rights in India thats why their population has gone up significantly since independence.

Just because they are patriot and love their country and dont support the causes of muslim majority nation, doesn't mean its forced patriotism.

Typical, keep repeating lies and hope people will either stop highlighting real facts about Indian minorities or people will just get used to it.

Minorities have equal rights in India. LOL.

They love their country but I am sure they do not love "Hindutva rashtra" which has taken over India under the PM Modi "Ji", although most wouldn't mind "the Hindu Rastra".

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Correction | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WATCH?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WATCH</a> | When foreign invaders like Babur came to India, why did they choose Ram temple for demolition? Because they knew that the soul of the country resides in Ram temple… On Dec 6, 1992, a historical mistake ended: Union Minister Prakash Javadekar in Delhi <a href="https://t.co/0mvj9zq0Qq">pic.twitter.com/0mvj9zq0Qq</a></p>— ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353320709888512000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Madplayer]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Correction | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WATCH?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WATCH</a> | When foreign invaders like Babur came to India, why did they choose Ram temple for demolition? Because they knew that the soul of the country resides in Ram temple… On Dec 6, 1992, a historical mistake ended: Union Minister Prakash Javadekar in Delhi <a href="https://t.co/0mvj9zq0Qq">pic.twitter.com/0mvj9zq0Qq</a></p>— ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353320709888512000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

My goodness me. Not even hiding it anymore.
Terrorist minister supporting terrorism.

 

[Madplayer]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Correction | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WATCH?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WATCH</a> | When foreign invaders like Babur came to India, why did they choose Ram temple for demolition? Because they knew that the soul of the country resides in Ram temple… On Dec 6, 1992, a historical mistake ended: Union Minister Prakash Javadekar in Delhi <a href="https://t.co/0mvj9zq0Qq">pic.twitter.com/0mvj9zq0Qq</a></p>— ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1353320709888512000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] look at this statement from the union minister.

 

[CricketCartoons]

My goodness me. Not even hiding it anymore.
Terrorist minister supporting terrorism.

If you think terrorism is a bad word, then read the Philosophy of the bomb (wrongly attributed to Bhagat Singh).

 

[MP2011]

My goodness me. Not even hiding it anymore.
Terrorist minister supporting terrorism.

Lol, you have seen so many of these sanghis shamelessly promoting terrorism, how could you be surprised?

However, people here will still be able to defend it. Thats how belligerent they have become under this fascist regime.

 

[Madplayer]

Lol, you have seen so many of these sanghis shamelessly promoting terrorism, how could you be surprised?

However, people here will still be able to defend it. Thats how belligerent they have become under this fascist regime.

You are right. I was just appalled to see a union minister say something like this about the demolition of the mosque. But you're right its not surprising at all.
But i feel they are doubling down on the hatred against muslims of India. What do you think? Times are going to be even more difficult i feel.