India's biggest problem: Batting in swinging and seaming conditions

[yuvi]

There are plenty of discussions going about India's middle order, finishing, allrounders, batting depth etc etc. But I feel all these problems are small compared to the problem of Indian batting in seaming and swinging conditions. All Indian batsmen top order or middle order have perished like house of cards in swinging, seaming conditions barring Kohli even against mediocre bowlers. We saw the same in this ODI series, England and SA test series.

 

[jnaveen1980]

As long as you have bowlers to exploit swinging conditions you are good. First step would be to identify if the conditions are less than ideal. Second step buckle down and put up a decent total. If the openers fail to read the conditions then whole team will suffer. Onus is on the top order. If they throw kitchen sink like Dhawan did, others will pay the price.

 

[gani999]

There are plenty of discussions going about India's middle order, finishing, allrounders, batting depth etc etc. But I feel all these problems are small compared to the problem of Indian batting in seaming and swinging conditions. All Indian batsmen top order or middle order have perished like house of cards in swinging, seaming conditions barring Kohli even against mediocre bowlers. We saw the same in this ODI series, England and SA test series.

There is no such thing as a perfect team.
Every team has its Achilles heels.
Every match is a battle between imperfect sides. The side that can rise above its imperfections and prevail wins the game.

Nitpicking is the most pointless exercise on God's green earth.

 

[jnaveen1980]

England who are supposed to be the best against swinging ball given that they play against the outrageously swinging duke balls all their life, got rolled over for 58 in NZ against moving Kookaburra red cherry, 77 in WI against moving ball. Not like they did well against India. Curran fluked some runs with beginner's luck.

 

[yuvi]

There is no such thing as a perfect team.
Every team has its Achilles heels.
Every match is a battle between imperfect sides. The side that can rise above its imperfections and prevail wins the game.

Nitpicking is the most pointless exercise on God's green earth.

Well champion WI, Aus team didn't have this kind of Achilles hill. If we aspire to be dominant like them we have to fix this problem. Or there will always be an asterisk mark on our no. 1 ranking. We were comprehensively beaten by weak SA, Eng sides.

 

[WengerOut]

Well champion WI, Aus team didn't have this kind of Achilles hill. If we aspire to be dominant like them we have to fix this problem. Or there will always be an asterisk mark on our no. 1 ranking. We were comprehensively beaten by weak SA, Eng sides.

Which weak SA side are you talking about?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Well champion WI, Aus team didn't have this kind of Achilles hill. If we aspire to be dominant like them we have to fix this problem. Or there will always be an asterisk mark on our no. 1 ranking. We were comprehensively beaten by weak SA, Eng sides.

Personally in one dayers where you are supposed to score runs not survive, we have to live with this. We cannot include Pujara, M Vijay, Rahane just to deal with these kind of specific scenario. Greatest AUstralian side ever during their peak were tottering twice in 2003 world cup against swing and pace of England and NZ. Both times their no.10 batsman Bichel bailed them out.

 

[yuvi]

England who are supposed to be the best against swinging ball given that they play against the outrageously swinging duke balls all their life, got rolled over for 58 in NZ against moving Kookaburra red cherry, 77 in WI against moving ball. Not like they did well against India. Curran fluked some runs with beginner's luck.

Do we want to be undisputed no. 1 or not? We were comprehensively beaten in SA and England. We can give excuses or sort out the issues. Choice is ours.

 

[WengerOut]

Personally in one dayers where you are supposed to score runs not survive, we have to live with this. We cannot include Pujara, M Vijay, Rahane just to deal with these kind of specific scenario. Greatest AUstralian side ever during their peak were tottering twice in 2003 world cup against swing and pace of England and NZ. Both times their no.10 batsman Bichel bailed them out.

Against SL in the Semis also. That is 3 times in a single WC

 

[yuvi]

Which weak SA side are you talking about?

SA batting is much weaker than it used to be. They haven't found replacements for Kallis, Smith yet.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Do we want to be undisputed no. 1 or not? We were comprehensively beaten in SA and England. We can give excuses or sort out the issues. Choice is ours.

Not even the greatest ODI team ever cannot score runs freely against swing bowlng. I have seen every goddamn GOAT team struggling against swing bowling. Famous example world cup final where Gordon Greenidge left a ball from Sandhu. That banana inswinger knocked his stumps over.

 

[WengerOut]

SA batting is much weaker than it used to be. They haven't found replacements for Kallis, Smith yet.

India have not found next Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag etc. So they are handicapped more.

 

[jnaveen1980]

My only gripe is INdia lacks a left arm swing bowler like Nehra or Zaheer in the line up.

 

[WengerOut]

Not even the greatest ODI team ever cannot score runs freely against swing bowlng. I have seen every goddamn GOAT team struggling against swing bowling. Famous example world cup final where Gordon Greenidge left a ball from Sandhu. That banana inswinger knocked his stumps over.

The score card of 1983 final is enough

 

[yuvi]

India have not found next Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag etc. So they are handicapped more.

Yeah we should find such batsnen rather than being happy with batsmen who roll in swinging and seaming condition.

 

[yuvi]

Not even the greatest ODI team ever cannot score runs freely against swing bowlng. I have seen every goddamn GOAT team struggling against swing bowling. Famous example world cup final where Gordon Greenidge left a ball from Sandhu. That banana inswinger knocked his stumps over.

It's not about freely scoring. It's about surviving the new ba and scoring later. The ball wasn't doing that much in NZ. Yesterday Rohit and Dhoni were bowled by balls which swung sligtly.

 

[yuvi]

Personally in one dayers where you are supposed to score runs not survive, we have to live with this. We cannot include Pujara, M Vijay, Rahane just to deal with these kind of specific scenario. Greatest AUstralian side ever during their peak were tottering twice in 2003 world cup against swing and pace of England and NZ. Both times their no.10 batsman Bichel bailed them out.

Forget about no. 10, Do we have a no. 8 who can bail us out?

 

[WengerOut]

Yeah we should find such batsnen rather than being happy with batsmen who roll in swinging and seaming condition.

That was not my point unless you are dodging it. Anyway i am off from this troll thread

 

[saintgrace]

That is why we have 6-7 batters. If it is flat every time, than 3-4 batters would be fine and the team can have long tail. But it is 10 gentleman's game. In swinging condition, if openers could manage 30 runs and subsequent batters could manage some more to add on, 200 is a good target. Remember the margin of error in swing/seam condition is really less, it is hard to focus and hit the ball when mind is full of doubts.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Yeah we should find such batsnen rather than being happy with batsmen who roll in swinging and seaming condition.

We will have to replace Rohit with Vijay shankar then. In one dayers you have to cover as much base possible. We cannot load the side with "technically brilliant" players to handle a specific scenario of batting well in swinging conditions. In my view apart from Dravid i have not seen anyone consistently being good against swing bowling.

 

[yuvi]

The score card of 1983 final is enough

If you have watched the last 2 ODIs the ball wasn't doing that much. Even Rohit acknowledged that.

 

[cricketworm]

That's why lots of A tours are done in England, Aus, NZ and SA. BCCI is exposing them to these conditions early on.

And for the current team, this team has been in top 3 for around 5 years if I am not mistaking, so the current team is doing fine.

 

[yuvi]

We will have to replace Rohit with Vijay shankar then. In one dayers you have to cover as much base possible. We cannot load the side with "technically brilliant" players to handle a specific scenario of batting well in swinging conditions. In my view apart from Dravid i have not seen anyone consistently being good against swing bowling.

Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly all were much better than the current lot.

 

[yuvi]

We will have to replace Rohit with Vijay shankar then. In one dayers you have to cover as much base possible. We cannot load the side with "technically brilliant" players to handle a specific scenario of batting well in swinging conditions. In my view apart from Dravid i have not seen anyone consistently being good against swing bowling.

I say we need one more solid batsman apart from Kohli as an insurance in England. Ball can swing in Eng if it's overcast.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Forget about no. 10, Do we have a no. 8 who can bail us out?

Point is no team can score fluently against swing bowling. Bond just left Australia tottering at 99/7 with 6 wicket haul. Any team can go through that scenario. How many times we run into "swinging conditions". Probably less than you think. To deal with swinging conditions have your own bowlers ready. After some sort of recovery in 2003 world cup, Australia had their own weapon in their arsenal in the form of Brett Lee. Remember the drop-in pitches in NZ during 2002 series. Dreadful pitch. India got bowled out for 99 runs in the first innings of hamilton test. They managed to hit back by bowling NZ out for 94 runs in their innings. Zak took 5 wicket. That is the one thing that India is missing. Genuine swing bowling option.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I say we need one more solid batsman apart from Kohli as an insurance in England. Ball can swing in Eng if it's overcast.

This is why we were screaming for solid middle order. Not the hacks like Rayudu, short attention span Karthik.

 

[yuvi]

Point is no team can score fluently against swing bowling. Bond just left Australia tottering at 99/7 with 6 wicket haul. Any team can go through that scenario. How many times we run into "swinging conditions". Probably less than you think. To deal with swinging conditions have your own bowlers ready. After some sort of recovery in 2003 world cup, Australia had their own weapon in their arsenal in the form of Brett Lee. Remember the drop-in pitches in NZ during 2002 series. Dreadful pitch. India got bowled out for 99 runs in the first innings of hamilton test. They managed to hit back by bowling NZ out for 94 runs in their innings. Zak took 5 wicket. That is the one thing that India is missing. Genuine swing bowling option.

It's not about scoring freely it's about lack of proper defence against moving ball. Rahul, Sachin, Ganguly, Kohli can score freely but also have proper defence when nedded. Being aggresive doesn't mean one can't have a goid defence.

 

[jnaveen1980]

It's not about scoring freely it's about lack of proper defence against moving ball. Rahul, Sachin, Ganguly, Kohli can score freely but also have proper defence when nedded. Being aggresive doesn't mean one can't have a goid defence.

We got rolled over for 136 runs in 2003 world cup against Australia. In a bit of bother against Holland too if i am right.

 

[yuvi]

We got rolled over for 136 runs in 2003 world cup against Australia. In a bit of bother against Holland too if i am right.

It used to happen occasionally then. But now a days whenever the ball does a bit we are quickly 3-4 wickets down. Rahul, Sachin, Ganguly have scored many hundreds in swinging conditions. Have any of current batsmen apart from Kohli done that.

 

[jnaveen1980]

It is the responsibility of top order to suss out the condition and play accordingly. With so much bowling restrictions it is not hard to see off bowling if you want to. In case they lose wickets middle order should resurrect. Given that our tail is so weak, our middle order has to be so strong. Sadly we are not. So be prepared for collapses in certain mornings batting first.

 

[Pete Rose]

I dont know if such conditions will be there are at the world cup. but the odd match will trip up one team or the other.
Even the invincible aussies struggled with swing and seam.

 

[yuvi]

It is the responsibility of top order to suss out the condition and play accordingly. With so much bowling restrictions it is not hard to see off bowling if you want to. In case they lose wickets middle order should resurrect. Given that our tail is so weak, our middle order has to be so strong. Sadly we are not. So be prepared for collapses in certain mornings batting first.

The problem is apart from Kohli nonody else has good defence. Last match Rohit tried hard but his weak defence was breached. And I have seen this hapoening time and again when the ball swings a bit.

 

[Pete Rose]

It is the responsibility of top order to suss out the condition and play accordingly. With so much bowling restrictions it is not hard to see off bowling if you want to. In case they lose wickets middle order should resurrect. Given that our tail is so weak, our middle order has to be so strong. Sadly we are not. So be prepared for collapses in certain mornings batting first.

I havent followed the new zealand series beyond the results, but I would think that the 4-1 indicates india well against what are typically seam/swing conditions?

 

[yuvi]

I dont know if such conditions will be there are at the world cup. but the odd match will trip up one team or the other.
Even the invincible aussies struggled with swing and seam.

But their lower middle order together with tail used to bail them out consistently. And their bowling used to defend sub 200 scores in such conditions.

 

[yuvi]

I havent followed the new zealand series beyond the results, but I would think that the 4-1 indicates india well against what are typically seam/swing conditions?

Ball swung and seamed only in 4th and 5th match that also slightly. No banana swing.

 

[Pete Rose]

Ball swung and seamed only in 4th and 5th match that also slightly. No banana swing.

Hmm...so 1-1 in seaming conditions. thats not bad, especially considering that they won the last game when they could have slacked, but didnt. . And there wont be banana swing in England, I think.

 

[Pete Rose]

But their lower middle order together with tail used to bail them out consistently. And their bowling used to defend sub 200 scores in such conditions.

Much as I dont like saying this: but never have i see a pre-world cup period where one team is wayyy to dominant over the others. This is that world cup.

 

[yuvi]

Hmm...so 1-1 in seaming conditions. thats not bad, especially considering that they won the last game when they could have slacked, but didnt. . And there wont be banana swing in England, I think.

KW made some tactical errors. He picked 2 spinners. Should have continued with one of the frontline bowlers rather than bringing on trundlers. Against better pace bowling attack like SA, Aus even Pak I don't think we would have scored 250.

 

[urnotserious]

Do we want to be undisputed no. 1 or not? We were comprehensively beaten in SA and England. We can give excuses or sort out the issues. Choice is ours.

The way to sort out those issues is to win tosses and put the other team in to bat first. Problem solved. Not sure if they would've fared any better had they batted instead of India.

 

[yuvi]

The way to sort out those issues is to win tosses and put the other team in to bat first. Problem solved. Not sure if they would've fared any better had they batted instead of India.

No the solution is to find batsmen with solid defence at least in the opening slots who will see off the the new ball. Champion WI and Aus were not winning consistently everywhere becoz they were winning the toss always.

 

[urnotserious]

No the solution is to find batsmen with solid defence at least in the opening slots who will see off the the new ball. Champion WI and Aus were not winning consistently everywhere becoz they were winning the toss always.

Pitches weren't doctored heavily in your favor those days either. Its apples and oranges to compare those eras to today.

 

[yuvi]

Pitches weren't doctored heavily in your favor those days either. Its apples and oranges to compare those eras to today.

That's a myth. Check old videos. Ball used to swing and seam as much. Only the quality of batting was much better.

 

[urnotserious]

That's a myth. Check old videos. Ball used to swing and seam as much. Only the quality of batting was much better.

LOL. Yes, potato quality Youtube highlights give you complete understanding of what went on in those days. Come on dude.

 

[yuvi]

LOL. Yes, potato quality Youtube highlights give you complete understanding of what went on in those days. Come on dude.

I am talking of 90s. There is good qyality videos of that. Do you have any statistics or data to prove there was less swing and seam those days? Otherwise it's just your opinion.

 

[jnaveen1980]

No the solution is to find batsmen with solid defence at least in the opening slots who will see off the the new ball. Champion WI and Aus were not winning consistently everywhere becoz they were winning the toss always.

We got bowled out for 100 & 66 in SA with Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman. We got rolled over in 2002 tests in NZ with those guys. Apart from Dravid i don't find anyone good in uber swinging conditions against great bowling. Batting against high class swing in prodigiously swinging conditions needs a bit of luck. In one dayers those kind of conditions make it a total lottery. Only way out is hitting back the opposition with the same swing bowling. Playing swing means leaving out balls. That means test cricket. If Dhawan and Rohit were that good in leaving they would have been a success in Tests. Those are worst case scenarios. Atleast these guys struggled against Boult. Remember the Indian line up that struggled against Darrelly Tuffey, Jacob Oram.

 

[Smbhayi]

lol who doesn't have a problem against moving ball?? any team??

 

[Smbhayi]

No the solution is to find batsmen with solid defence at least in the opening slots who will see off the the new ball. Champion WI and Aus were not winning consistently everywhere becoz they were winning the toss always.

champion Windies team lost two in two to minnow Indian team...

 

[Smbhayi]

It's not about freely scoring. It's about surviving the new ba and scoring later. The ball wasn't doing that much in NZ. Yesterday Rohit and Dhoni were bowled by balls which swung sligtly.

swing more you've higher chance to survive, ask Wasim.. Swing little that'll be deadly, ask McGrath..

 

[troodon]

ODI's are played on pattas. Not on pitches that offer swing and seam.

If it swings and seams, we may be in trouble. But our bowling is good enough to dismiss the opposition too.

This is a pointless thread. We cannot have technically sound fellows for the rare case scenario of when the pitch offers seam movement.

 

[jnaveen1980]

ODI's are played on pattas. Not on pitches that offer swing and seam.

If it swings and seams, we may be in trouble. But our bowling is good enough to dismiss the opposition too.

This is a pointless thread. We cannot have technically sound fellows for the rare case scenario of when the pitch offers seam movement.

We have burnt our fingers before. Bringing back Rahane, Bringing back Dravid for one dayers. They did jack in the ODI series.

 

[yuvi]

champion Windies team lost two in two to minnow Indian team...

They won everywhere never got thrashed in Eng. Getting bowled out cheaply few times is not a problem. For us it's 3-4 down for nithing everytime the ball swings a bit.

 

[jnaveen1980]

They won everywhere never got thrashed in Eng. Getting bowled out cheaply few times is not a problem. For us it's 3-4 down for nithing everytime the ball swings a bit.

Only option is having Pujara at 4, Rahane at 5, Agarwal at 6. We don't want that do we? Right now only option is to see of their best bowler like Boult. See what happened in 5th one dayer. inspite of 18/4 we recovered and won.

 

[yuvi]

ODI's are played on pattas. Not on pitches that offer swing and seam.

If it swings and seams, we may be in trouble. But our bowling is good enough to dismiss the opposition too.

This is a pointless thread. We cannot have technically sound fellows for the rare case scenario of when the pitch offers seam movement.

I think as the WC in Eng we need at least one more solid player in middle order at 4. It's not as if we have batsmen in middle order who can play blazing innings.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think as the WC in Eng we need at least one more solid player in middle order at 4. It's not as if we have batsmen in middle order who can play blazing innings.

That ship has sailed. These guys are not good for "non swinging conditions" as well. Can't accelerate. It is all down to Pandya.

 

[Smbhayi]

They won everywhere never got thrashed in Eng. Getting bowled out cheaply few times is not a problem. For us it's 3-4 down for nithing everytime the ball swings a bit.

it's a first time India bowled out a low score in a long time.. and how many times India lost 3-4 wicket for cheap since last world cup,, it must be very few..

 

[yuvi]

That ship has sailed. These guys are not good for "non swinging conditions" as well. Can't accelerate. It is all down to Pandya.

I feel Shankar looked solid, can be tried at 4 instead of Rayudu. Rayudu scored mote but rode his luck initially.

 

[Napa]

There are plenty of discussions going about India's middle order, finishing, allrounders, batting depth etc etc. But I feel all these problems are small compared to the problem of Indian batting in seaming and swinging conditions. All Indian batsmen top order or middle order have perished like house of cards in swinging, seaming conditions barring Kohli even against mediocre bowlers. We saw the same in this ODI series, England and SA test series.

I agree with your assessment. The question is what can be done? Indian batsmen develop their batting in Indian conditions, and swing, seam and bounce all become a problem when the team travels abroad. Pujara sought to overcome his weakness by playing county cricket. Maybe we can schedule more domestic games in venues like Mohali and Dharamshala where conditions are more similar to those we will encounter in colder countries.

 

[Smbhayi]

I think as the WC in Eng we need at least one more solid player in middle order at 4. It's not as if we have batsmen in middle order who can play blazing innings.

lol look at the England team, they've the batting till No. 11 (may be) but they'll be all out for nothing if ball moves throughout the innings...

 

[yuvi]

lol look at the England team, they've the batting till No. 11 (may be) but they'll be all out for nothing if ball moves throughout the innings...

They have batsmen till 11. So they can recover from 4-5 down in ODIs as the white ball doesn't swing for long. Our bowlers can't bat. Test matches are different as the red ball can swing all day.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I feel Shankar looked solid, can be tried at 4 instead of Rayudu. Rayudu scored mote but rode his luck initially.

Rayudu is going nowhere. Yes i don't disagree Shankar looks better. But Rayudu is there to survive and slog if he survives long enough. Vijay is not a slogger. So his role will be applicable only in specific scenarios

 

[jnaveen1980]

If conditions help swing bowling we may need both Bhuvi and Shami. that is where India has a headache. They will have to drop a spinner.

 

[yuvi]

Rayudu is going nowhere. Yes i don't disagree Shankar looks better. But Rayudu is there to survive and slog if he survives long enough. Vijay is not a slogger. So his role will be applicable only in specific scenarios

I think Shankar can slog after settling down. He has done for A team. He can't come and blaze straight away which is expected in the lower order. We shouldn't judge him by that one T20I match.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think Shankar can slog after settling down. He has done for A team. He can't come and blaze straight away which is expected in the lower order. We shouldn't judge him by that one T20I match.

When you factor in Rayudu's fielding, his limited batting skill anyone can replace him. But they keep him for "experience". Only good thing he can slog spinners and trundlers very well. Against high quality bowling he is a sitting duck.

 

[yuvi]

I agree with your assessment. The question is what can be done? Indian batsmen develop their batting in Indian conditions, and swing, seam and bounce all become a problem when the team travels abroad. Pujara sought to overcome his weakness by playing county cricket. Maybe we can schedule more domestic games in venues like Mohali and Dharamshala where conditions are more similar to those we will encounter in colder countries.

Bhai Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly also developed their cricket in India. But they didn't struggle against swing and seam like the current ones. The problem is priorities and preparation. Before overseas tours these guys used to spend a lot of time preparing for such conditions. I doubt the current batsmen spend same amount of time preparing.

 

[yuvi]

When you factor in Rayudu's fielding, his limited batting skill anyone can replace him. But they keep him for "experience". Only good thing he can slog spinners and trundlers very well. Against high quality bowling he is a sitting duck.

That's one of the question marks on Virat's captaincy. He hasn't been able to develop any good batsman so far. All the current settled batsmen are from Dhoni era. In fact good batsmen like Rahane, Vijay, Rahul have regressed under him.

 

[yuvi]

We got bowled out for 100 & 66 in SA with Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman. We got rolled over in 2002 tests in NZ with those guys. Apart from Dravid i don't find anyone good in uber swinging conditions against great bowling. Batting against high class swing in prodigiously swinging conditions needs a bit of luck. In one dayers those kind of conditions make it a total lottery. Only way out is hitting back the opposition with the same swing bowling. Playing swing means leaving out balls. That means test cricket. If Dhawan and Rohit were that good in leaving they would have been a success in Tests. Those are worst case scenarios. Atleast these guys struggled against Boult. Remember the Indian line up that struggled against Darrelly Tuffey, Jacob Oram.

I have seen those matches in 2002. Conditions were much tougher. Here the ball only swung slightly and our current great batsmen looked like fish out of water.

 

[Bilal7]

Good luck with that when you have someone like Rohit Sharma batting at the top of the order.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I have seen those matches in 2002. Conditions were much tougher. Here the ball only swung slightly and our current great batsmen looked like fish out of water.

Boult is a world class pace bowler bowling with new ball with helpful conditions. I'll give credit to Boult rather than deride Rohit. But Dhawan/Gill didn't get out to any great devlieries. Those were just poor shots.Remember how Irfan pathan took 3 in 3 with same type of balls in Karachi test. Left arm bowler swinging into the right hander is hard for any right hander. Especially at 140k. You need a bit of patience.
bit of luck. You have to ride through and cash in.

 

[rhony]

Swinging conditions are not the issue. If it a very flat track, Indian batting will be outgunned. I see the latter as a real threat in the conditions in England. England can out bat India in 8 out of 10 games on flat pattas. If the ball is swinging around, Indian bowling is good enough to take wickets. England batsmen are weaker than Indians on swinging conditions. So, pointless thread really.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Rohit sharma and Dhawan average in England more than Kohli, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Yuvraj singh

 

[jnaveen1980]

Swinging conditions are not the issue. If it a very flat track, Indian batting will be outgunned. I see the latter as a real threat in the conditions in England. England can out bat India in 8 out of 10 games on flat pattas. If the ball is swinging around, Indian bowling is good enough to take wickets. England batsmen are weaker than Indians on swinging conditions. So, pointless thread really.

This !! If anything India has better chance with their bowling. If we are chasing 350 against England we are screwed anyway.

 

[yuvi]

Boult is a world class pace bowler bowling with new ball with helpful conditions. I'll give credit to Boult rather than deride Rohit. But Dhawan/Gill didn't get out to any great devlieries. Those were just poor shots.Remember how Irfan pathan took 3 in 3 with same type of balls in Karachi test. Left arm bowler swinging into the right hander is hard for any right hander. Especially at 140k. You need a bit of patience.
bit of luck. You have to ride through and cash in.

Rohit has a weak defence. Even Gavaskar had said so though he always supports Mumbai players.

 

[Shandarchowka]

I'll be glad if they use dukes ball and there's a wet summer in the UK. All the bating FTBs of India and England will be finally exposed. It will also create a beautiful balance between bat and ball.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I remember India giving Dravid chance to play in the one dayer after we struggled in Tests. Dravid was poking around making 69 runs in 79 balls on a flat pitch. Same way Parthiv made 19 in 39. Rahane 26 in 47. We got only 303. With DL method England got to 2141 in 32 overs. Yea solid batsmen lol But they made way below par score.

 

[yuvi]

Swinging conditions are not the issue. If it a very flat track, Indian batting will be outgunned. I see the latter as a real threat in the conditions in England. England can out bat India in 8 out of 10 games on flat pattas. If the ball is swinging around, Indian bowling is good enough to take wickets. England batsmen are weaker than Indians on swinging conditions. So, pointless thread really.

Scotland managed to beat England in a high scoring match on flat wicket. You think we can't! Even Rayudu will be able to do the job on a flat pitch against weak English attack.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Scotland managed to beat England in a high scoring match on flat wicket. You think we can't! Even Rayudu will be able to do the job on a flat pitch against weak English attack.

Unless we have a choice there is no point in discussing. Solution will be to pack the side with test class batsmen like Pujara, Rahane. You think Pujara can rack up 300 plus scores?

 

[yuvi]

Unless we have a choice there is no point in discussing. Solution will be to pack the side with test class batsmen like Pujara, Rahane. You think Pujara can rack up 300 plus scores?

I am more worried about tests than LOIs. Looking at the pitches in WI against Eng, it will not be easy for our batsmen also. It will be again Kohli or bust in WI and NZ test series unless the younger lot Mayank, Vihari, Shaw, Pant step up.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I am more worried about tests than LOIs. Looking at the pitches in WI against Eng, it will not be easy for our batsmen also. It will be again Kohli or bust in WI and NZ test series unless the younger lot Mayank, Vihari, Shaw, Pant step up.

That was because India was backing the wrong horses. Rahul has become a tonty tonty hack. Vijay should retired 2 years back. Rahane was going through prolonged bad form. Pujara given a raw deal. Agarwal, Shaw, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Pant will do well. We always have our savior against West Indies in the form of Ashwin. He is one guy who always looked authoritative against any kind of bowling West Indies threw at us.

 

[rhony]

Scotland managed to beat England in a high scoring match on flat wicket. You think we can't! Even Rayudu will be able to do the job on a flat pitch against weak English attack.

India can't swing merrily and play as if they have nothing to lose like Scotland did. Good teams play to their strengths and India cant score 350. Simple as that. India has been winning because of their bowling. The one time, bowling failed, India lost in the CT final.

 

[yuvi]

That was because India was backing the wrong horses. Rahul has become a tonty tonty hack. Vijay should retired 2 years back. Rahane was going through prolonged bad form. Pujara given a raw deal. Agarwal, Shaw, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Pant will do well. We always have our savior against West Indies in the form of Ashwin. He is one guy who always looked authoritative against any kind of bowling West Indies threw at us.

Rahane also needs to go if ge doesn't make big scores.