India's biggest problem: Batting in swinging and seaming conditions

[jnaveen1980]

India can't swing merrily and play as if they have nothing to lose like Scotland did. Good teams play to their strengths and India cant score 350. Simple as that. India has been winning because of their bowling. The one time, bowling failed, India lost in the CT final.

That was because India's team selection. Aswhin should have never been part of the squad let alone playing XI. Jadeja also lost his mojo. India needed 4 seamers to bounce them out. This time India will employ more bouncers having seen how they were sitting ducks against Olivier bouncers.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Overall this scenario can happen. Very much possible. But there is nothing we can do about it. We just have to bowl better than them after racking up a decent total like we did in the 5th ODI. Since Kohli will be back you could back him to ride through this.

 

[yuvi]

India can't swing merrily and play as if they have nothing to lose like Scotland did. Good teams play to their strengths and India cant score 350. Simple as that. India has been winning because of their bowling. The one time, bowling failed, India lost in the CT final.

Our bowling much stronger now with Kulcha and Shami making comeback. CT final won't happen. We saw what happened in Asia Cup.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Our bowling much stronger now with Kulcha and Shami making comeback. CT final won't happen. We saw what happened in Asia Cup.

There will be barrage of bouncers for sure.

 

[rhony]

Overall this scenario can happen. Very much possible. But there is nothing we can do about it. We just have to bowl better than them after racking up a decent total like we did in the 5th ODI. Since Kohli will be back you could back him to ride through this.

Exactly. If Boult or Starc or Amir are in a good mood, India will capitulate. There is nothing one can do. When you expect Kohli or Rohit to score hundreds and win games on batting wickets, you gotto expect great performances from great bowlers in their conditions. No team is perfect in this world cup.

 

[yuvi]

There will be barrage of bouncers for sure.

Yeah we should drop Bhuvi and play Shami. Bumrah, Shami, Pandya will easily reap apart Pakistan batting.

 

[rhony]

Our bowling much stronger now with Kulcha and Shami making comeback. CT final won't happen. We saw what happened in Asia Cup.

Again, you never know!! Asia cup happened and CT final happened and even in Asia cup, BD ran India close and that happened too. It's impossible to say what will happen in knockouts. Considering the format where each team plays a lot of games in the group phase in the WC, I think consistent teams will book a spot in SF. India because of their consistency will book a spot in SF if they play the same way they did over the last 2 years. There is no point in wondering what will happen if there are swinging conditions.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Again, you never know!! Asia cup happened and CT final happened and even in Asia cup, BD ran India close and that happened too. It's impossible to say what will happen in knockouts. Considering the format where each team plays a lot of games in the group phase in the WC, I think consistent teams will book a spot in SF. India because of their consistency will book a spot in SF if they play the same way they did over the last 2 years. There is no point in wondering what will happen if there are swinging conditions.

yup. We cannot worry about worst case scenarios. If it happens you can't do much. India left arm seamers always extracted a lot more in SA than in England. Especially 2003 world cup run wsa a dream run against all teams except Australia. Also RP singh was outstanding in the 2007 world T20. A guy like Zaheer would be a fantastic addition to this line up.

 

[sunny85]

We had good seam attack Srinath Zaheer Nehra in 2003. In swinging conditions at Durban - Mighty Nick knight Trescothicks Stewart's Naseer Vaughn Flintoff were dancing like headless chickens.
So on good seaming conditions every team will struggle.

 

[jnaveen1980]

We had good seam attack Srinath Zaheer Nehra in 2003. In swinging conditions at Durban - Mighty Nick knight Trescothicks Stewart's Naseer Vaughn Flintoff were dancing like headless chickens.
So on good seaming conditions every team will struggle.

Current line up doesn't have out and out swing bowlers.

 

[yuvi]

Again, you never know!! Asia cup happened and CT final happened and even in Asia cup, BD ran India close and that happened too. It's impossible to say what will happen in knockouts. Considering the format where each team plays a lot of games in the group phase in the WC, I think consistent teams will book a spot in SF. India because of their consistency will book a spot in SF if they play the same way they did over the last 2 years. There is no point in wondering what will happen if there are swinging conditions.

UAE pitches were slow and difficult. There were no high scoring matches apart from the ones in which we mauled Pakistan. And we didn't have Kohli. In difficult conditions we do need Kohli.

 

[rhony]

Current line up doesn't have out and out swing bowlers.

BK can swing it. Shami too. Indian bowlers have very good discipline

 

[jnaveen1980]

BK can swing it. Shami too. Indian bowlers have very good discipline

Not like Zaheer or RP or Nehra at their peak.

 

[sunny85]

Current line up doesn't have out and out swing bowlers.

Sami and Bhuvi are swing bowlers or death bowlers

 

[jnaveen1980]

Sami and Bhuvi are swing bowlers or death bowlers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwDohjWTzc

Check the 4th ball of RP 145k inswinging yorker to Adam Gilchrist.

 

[sunny85]

Watch bhuvi first match highlights against Pakistan T20

 

[jnaveen1980]

Watch bhuvi first match highlights against Pakistan T20

I rarely see him swing prodigiously.

 

[rhony]

I rarely see him swing prodigiously.

All you need is to swing just enough to catch the edge.

 

[Hari Sombar]

Any team playing currently can fold when good pacers are swinging the ball, including England. If anything we are safer in these conditions as our top 3 plays as if they have no trust in the middle order and so will bat to protect them. We may be 60/2 after 20 overs whereas other teams may be 100/4 and I know which one id rather be.

If anything, attacking teams like England are more vulnerable as their fearlessness induces a false sense of security. As said above, batting on flat wickets where 300 is par is more of an issue.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Any team playing currently can fold when good pacers are swinging the ball, including England. If anything we are safer in these conditions as our top 3 plays as if they have no trust in the middle order and so will bat to protect them. We may be 60/2 after 20 overs whereas other teams may be 100/4 and I know which one id rather be.

If anything, attacking teams like England are more vulnerable as their fearlessness induces a false sense of security. As said above, batting on flat wickets where 300 is par is more of an issue.

yes 300 patta wickets are harder for us. By chance if we lose someone to a run out or some fluke catch at the top we are toasted. We will end up with a below par total.

 

[SportsWarrior]

It's not about freely scoring. It's about surviving the new ba and scoring later. The ball wasn't doing that much in NZ. Yesterday Rohit and Dhoni were bowled by balls which swung sligtly.

If conditions help swing bowling we may need both Bhuvi and Shami. that is where India has a headache. They will have to drop a spinner.

Why is that an headache? If the conditions help swing bowling why would you need to spinners? That too two wrist spinners?

 

[sunny85]

1999 . India carried Mohanty. Lol
It's all about class - 1999 Wicket taker for India �� Prasad.

Remember Aussies won bcoz of Warne and Gibbs.

Just to remind - Stuart Binny against Nagin Dancers and Dada in Torronto against Pakistan. Both don't had Prodigious seam but effective

 

[austerlitz]

Problem is who will save opposition team from bhuvi,shami and bumrah in those conditions.(You can be sure chahal wont play on a green pitch).

 

[yuvi]

Why is that an headache? If the conditions help swing bowling why would you need to spinners? That too two wrist spinners?

We haven't been very good at reading conditions. We have picked wrong team tine and again in Eng and Perth test in Aus.

 

[rhony]

We haven't been very good at reading conditions. We have picked wrong team tine and again in Eng and Perth test in Aus.

Dude you are swinging more than a Boult's in dipper. Are you talking about tests or ODIs?

 

[Sin Nombre]

This is a very stupid thread.

OP keeps conflating ODIs and tests, and uses one or other depending on what he is trying to sell.

 

[SportsWarrior]

We haven't been very good at reading conditions. We have picked wrong team tine and again in Eng and Perth test in Aus.

You are confusing tests to ODIs. Most posters are responding keeping ODIS in mind. It is easier to read overcast conditions in ODIS. Generally captains either look up to heavens or look at weather forecast. For test matches it is harder even with good forecast. You didn't answer my question on why would India pick two wrist spinners in swinging conditions. Also even the worst scenario of they picking two wrist spinners they still three medium pacers who are good at international level. Both Bumrah and Bhuvi are good at exploiting overcast conditions and Pandya has a fivefer in English conditions. So they will manage

 

[rhony]

You are confusing tests to ODIs. Most posters are responding keeping ODIS in mind. It is easier to read overcast conditions in ODIS. Generally captains either look up to heavens or look at weather forecast. For test matches it is harder even with good forecast. You didn't answer my question on why would India pick two wrist spinners in swinging conditions. Also even the worst scenario of they picking two wrist spinners they still three medium pacers who are good at international level. Both Bumrah and Bhuvi are good at exploiting overcast conditions and Pandya has a fivefer in English conditions. So they will manage

Yes, especially the Indian Pandya is bowling well with decent pace. I even see him swinging the ball a bit compared to the caribbean Pandya

 

[giri26]

It is not India's biggest problem, it is problem across the world. No team in the world can claim they can play swinging ball well, even England who grow up in such conditions. The only reason England were able to get past that is because Sam Curran played couple of freaky innings. Any ways ODI pitches in England is not going to be green and it will be dry and flat. England's strength is their batting and there is no way ECB is going to have wickets with grass which will negate their batting and even the match up with the opposition.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Funny thing is India reached CT final both in 2013 and 2017 with same top order.

 

[rhony]

Funny thing is India reached CT final both in 2013 and 2017 with same top order.

I guess that ends the debate

 

[Sadevdesai]

Are the Indians the only ones ????????

 

[jnaveen1980]

To all those who think Indian top order will fail in England.

Here are the ICC CT Trophy atting stats 2017.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Combined stats of ICC CT 2013 and 2017

 

[jnaveen1980]

I guess time to stop worrying about India failing in "swinging conditions"? lol

 

[yuvi]

I guess time to stop worrying about India failing in "swinging conditions"? lol

I am not saying we can't score runs in Eng where pitches are flat mostly now a days. My point is the scenario with highesr prbability of India getting knocked out is conditions of ball swinging on some occasion. Problem is more acute in tests than ODIs. We can give many excuses but it's a fact we lost comprehensively in SA and Eng where ball swung and seamed.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I am not saying we can't score runs in Eng where pitches are flat mostly now a days. My point is the scenario with highesr prbability of India getting knocked out is conditions of ball swinging on some occasion. Problem is more acute in tests than ODIs. We can give many excuses but it's a fact we lost comprehensively in SA and Eng where ball swung and seamed.

They will find a way to survive and score some runs. I expect atleast 2 collapses. I think India will escape.