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India's young fast bowling factory - 38 better bowlers than Naseem Shah?

ethan hunt said:
Besides muhammad sami i have never seen a bowler who hasnt improved his lines and control with time.
Naseem has everything else. Movement both ways at good test match pace. His lines are better than before we ve seen enough evidence of that in the last one year. Be patient and watch him bowl on better wickets.
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He is very short, that's the reason he gets smashed too often.
 
Mobashir said:
He is ready for limited overs internationals, not tests so far.
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Siraj, Bumrah, Shami all of them would have struggled to take wickets on this road. Don't be so harsh on Naseem. Jeetesh is a noob who is yet to watch cricket outside IPL. :inti
 
It’s been a Sterling effort carrying the Pakistani bowling on this pitch by Naseem. England and the pitch have both combined to reflect the figures he has. England have turned test match cricket on its head and Rambo has “played in to England’s hands” with the pitch.

Jimmy has done very little on this pitch and his figures haven’t taken a battering due to our snail batsmen.

If Naseem had bowled to our batsmen his economy wouldn’t be too far away from Anderson’s and he’s also got more wickets.

Fantastic job in this match by Naseem.

Whoever wants to hate can hate.
 
Naseem needs to keep working. He is good bowler and will only get better,injury permitting. I would also like to see him use his yorker as the batsmen are commiting to the front early and firing it in at leg middle in the age of DRS isn't the worst tactic.
 
Tried his heart out at Rawalpindi.

He'll learn from this match as should the skipper who set some ridiculous fields for him.

What he could have done differently? I'd like to have seen him bowl more bouncers as the England bowlers did today.
 
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When your fans hype you up as the best & most exciting young fast bowler in the world who is a great in the making, you should have an answer up your sleeve when the batsmen are looking to take you on.

His record against the top sides makes for an embarrassing reading & it is spread over 4 years not one season.

He clearly doesn’t deserve to play Test cricket. He has been overhyped to the moon & fast tracked because on the “talent” mantra but so far it is all show & no substance.

He needs to be dropped & made to play FC. He has only played 14 domestic FC matches & that shows in his bowling.

Average bowler who is nowhere near as good as his fans think & perhaps he is also overrating his own abilities.
 
vs Australia:

Average 34

vs England:

Average 51, economy rate 4.36

vs New Zealand:

Average 73, economy rate 4.59

The economy against New Zealand was in New Zealand, not on dead Pakistani wickets

Overall, he is averaging 37 with an economy rate of 3.76.

Now matter how you slice the bread, how many excuses & justifications you make, how much you blame his age, his luck, his captain, the pitches etc., it is a pathetic record that does not justify his selection in the Test team especially as a member of the playing XI.
 
Mamoon said:
vs Australia:

Average 34

vs England:

Average 51, economy rate 4.36

vs New Zealand:

Average 73, economy rate 4.59

The economy against New Zealand was in New Zealand, not on dead Pakistani wickets

Overall, he is averaging 37 with an economy rate of 3.76.

Now matter how you slice the bread, how many excuses & justifications you make, how much you blame his age, his luck, his captain, the pitches etc., it is a pathetic record that does not justify his selection in the Test team especially as a member of the playing XI.
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He averaged 26 in his last 2 series on pretty much flat tracks on basis of that he deserves a go in this series. Yes his credit bank is low another 40 odd average series here if pitches improve in next 2 games then yes he needs to be dropped but here his selction is justified based on last two series efforts.
 
You can assemble any five of India's greatest bowlers and they would have conceded at least 800 runs on this pitch against this English batting lineup.

Naseem is still a teenager and bowled his heart out here, with Haris injured. He's not the finished article yet but he will become a world class bowler very soon.
 
Mamoon said:
vs Australia:

Average 34

vs England:

Average 51, economy rate 4.36

vs New Zealand:

Average 73, economy rate 4.59

The economy against New Zealand was in New Zealand, not on dead Pakistani wickets

Overall, he is averaging 37 with an economy rate of 3.76.

Now matter how you slice the bread, how many excuses & justifications you make, how much you blame his age, his luck, his captain, the pitches etc., it is a pathetic record that does not justify his selection in the Test team especially as a member of the playing XI.
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Yes, it does. Shaheen and Haris are both injured, Abbas and Hassan are woefully out of form and no one else has played more than a couple of games. Naseem will play all three matches in this series.
 
Mamoon said:
vs Australia:

Average 34

vs England:

Average 51, economy rate 4.36

vs New Zealand:

Average 73, economy rate 4.59

The economy against New Zealand was in New Zealand, not on dead Pakistani wickets

Overall, he is averaging 37 with an economy rate of 3.76.

Now matter how you slice the bread, how many excuses & justifications you make, how much you blame his age, his luck, his captain, the pitches etc., it is a pathetic record that does not justify his selection in the Test team especially as a member of the playing XI.
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You have egg on your face-Who are the 38 Inds? Maybe you can ring the Ind selectors and give them a few of these hidden gems.
 
Naseem is Pakistan's future and he will only get better. Proud to have him as part of our team.
 
Mamoon said:
vs Australia:

Average 34

vs England:

Average 51, economy rate 4.36

vs New Zealand:

Average 73, economy rate 4.59

The economy against New Zealand was in New Zealand, not on dead Pakistani wickets

Overall, he is averaging 37 with an economy rate of 3.76.

Now matter how you slice the bread, how many excuses & justifications you make, how much you blame his age, his luck, his captain, the pitches etc., it is a pathetic record that does not justify his selection in the Test team especially as a member of the playing XI.
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Please repeat after me. It is not difficult.
He is better than any bowler that just lost to Bangladesh.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
He is very short, that's the reason he gets smashed too often.
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He’s 5’10’’, that’s around the same height as Steyn and taller than the likes of Shami.

Not saying he’s on their level or whatever but he’s not on Agarkar level of height (5’7’’) as some assume.
 
He conceded 206 runs in 33.5 overs at an embarrassing economy rate of 6.19 runs per over.

That was the difference between the two sides. Had he kept his economy rate around 3.5 - 4 which he should have if he is as talented as his fans say, Pakistan would have won the match.

An embarrassing Test match for a deeply mediocre bowler whose Test career has been nothing but a joke so far.
 
Should be removed from the test team.
Gave runs at odi pace.

As of now he has not proved himself in any format, in odis his stats are good but those are against minnows.

He is not international standard bowler as of now.
 
He is still better then others, had no support from other end, bowled on a road , against a record breaking aggressive team and under a the worst captain Pakistan ever had. Sounds weird but for me he was pick of the bowlers from Pakistan, took 5 wickets under these circumstances is not a bad job.

We're not living in the era of West Indies in 80s , after Shaheen, Nasim is our best all format fast bowler.
 
Pakistan has become a laughing stock after this shambolic defeat, Saqlain and Yusuf should resign after this disaster, crisis situation it is that we cannot find 3 decent pacers for Test cricket, shoot in the foot by selecting 3 noobs.

Hassan Ali, Faheem & Abbas should have been selected rather than this amateur lot
 
Mamoon said:
He conceded 206 runs in 33.5 overs at an embarrassing economy rate of 6.19 runs per over.

That was the difference between the two sides. Had he kept his economy rate around 3.5 - 4 which he should have if he is as talented as his fans say, Pakistan would have won the match.

An embarrassing Test match for a deeply mediocre bowler whose Test career has been nothing but a joke so far.
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Pakistan fans should get rid of the “mera bachcha nonu monu sabshey pyaara” mentality. Naseem is not a baby and the kookaburra getting beaten to pulp doesn’t care if Naseem is 19 or 24, neither do the Warners, Olie Popes, and Harry Brookes. I’m sure you have 5-6 better pacers better than Naseem languishing in FC.
 
Mirpuri Don said:
He’s 5’10’’, that’s around the same height as Steyn and taller than the likes of Shami.

Not saying he’s on their level or whatever but he’s not on Agarkar level of height (5’7’’) as some assume.
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Naseem is not the same height as Steyn
 
BreadPakoda said:
Pakistan fans should get rid of the “mera bachcha nonu monu sabshey pyaara” mentality. Naseem is not a baby and the kookaburra getting beaten to pulp doesn’t care if Naseem is 19 or 24, neither do the Warners, Olie Popes, and Harry Brookes. I’m sure you have 5-6 better pacers better than Naseem languishing in FC.
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Naseem is a joke in Test cricket. If there are no better bowlers than him in domestic cricket than it simply means that we have zero talent in the pace bowling department & our fans should stop puffing their chests over our bowling resources.
 
I think its time to make separate threads for separate formats. PAK has a fearsome T20 pace attack. No question about it.

But please stop hyping your "talents" in Test cricket. We won a Test match in Australia with a random bunch of domestic bowlers whereas Pakistan have lost their last 2 Test matches at home. India lost 2 Test matches at home in the last 10 years.

The gulf is massive and constantly comparing in Tests makes y'all look perpetually foolish. :inti
 
MenInG said:
Naseem is Pakistan's future and he will only get better. Proud to have him as part of our team.
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Fully agree. He was good in last two test series.
The best in the world Indian seam bowlers got carted in almost a similar fashion earlier in the year by England on a much better bowling pitch.
Naseem hasn’t played first class cricket at all so this phase must be treated as his learning curve. With more overs under his belt he’ll become a force to reckon with Inshallah.
 
He shouldn't be playing test cricket.

Wouldn't surprise me if India had 30+ better red ball bowlers as it's not exactly that hard to achieve if you can bowl somewhat economically.
 
Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umesh, Prasidh all who are playing international cricket at test level for India are better than Naseem.
 
Mamoon said:
Naseem is a joke in Test cricket. If there are no better bowlers than him in domestic cricket than it simply means that we have zero talent in the pace bowling department & our fans should stop puffing their chests over our bowling resources.
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Still KL Rahul can't play him...
 
Majestic said:
Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umesh, Prasidh all who are playing international cricket at test level for India are better than Naseem.
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Shami and Umesh have been playing for donkeys years.Umesh is a spray gun,Shami is good.I haven’t watched others.
 
Fenrir said:
Shami and Umesh have been playing for donkeys years.Umesh is a spray gun,Shami is good.I haven’t watched others.
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Umesh has evolved as a red bowl bowler really well in last few years. In last 5 years, he averages 22 in Test cricket.
 
What are Pakistan top5 bowlers for real game , Test Cricket

Shahheen Afridi

Naseem Shah

Hassan Ali

?????

?????

Chief Selector needs serious questioning
 
Mobashir said:
Still KL Rahul can't play him...
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Anomalies happen in international cricket. Just like Babar has been an epic failure against India apart from one match in his career even though you think the Indian bowling attack is a joke.

KL Rahul has had a better career than Naseem so far. The batting equivalent of Naseem in Test cricket would be averaging 20 odd. That is how awful he has been with the ball in this format.
 
AMSS said:
Pakistan is the lowest ranked test team since 2010....sitting at the bottom with Bangla and SL. Look up the stats. LMAO

Pakistan is a trash test team because they have a trash test attack. A ranji level attack. Why are you making it so difficult for yourself? :)))
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Mobashir said:
Ok now it's not even 38 but about 100 better bowlers than him as he can't even get into a Ranji team.
Does Avesh Khan get a chance to play the prestegious Ranji?
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Is this still a debate? Plate level Ranji teams have a better attack than this alleged bowling attack of Pakistan.
 
Naseem is the worst fast bowler in the world in this format. His numbers are utterly embarrassing.

He will have to go through a McGrath or Steyn level peak from here onwards to correct his numbers but he hasn’t got the talent & the skill to do so.

The sooner Pakistan kick him out the better.
 
What are Pakistan options apart from Shaheen
The cupboard is empty
Every youngster wants to play PSL seems nobody interested in line and length, seam and reverse swing, cutters. What can shaun Tait do he himself was a 4 over bowler :13:
 
AMSS said:
This guy again! :))
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He has a very low iq, shouldn't be allowed to browse Internet.
Always gets proven wrong and comes up with some random useless, out of context paragraphs.
Bumrah and Siraj are thrice the bowler Naseem is.

How can someone be so clueless after watching cricket for decades.
 
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Pakistan's so called pace attack is on the verge of losing 4th consecutive Test match at home in around 10 months

And yet certain posters with green tinted vision have the temerity to call out attacks that have conceded only 2 test matches at home in nearly 10 years.
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] and [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] Please keep your heads buried deep in the Earth and retire from PP for your own sake.

More humiliations are coming your way courtesy PAK's mediocre pace attack and it's best you leave with some credibility intact :srini
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Pakistan's so called pace attack is on the verge of losing 4th consecutive Test match at home in around 10 months

And yet certain posters with green tinted vision have the temerity to call out attacks that have conceded only 2 test matches at home in nearly 10 years.
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] and [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] Please keep your heads buried deep in the Earth and retire from PP for your own sake.

More humiliations are coming your way courtesy PAK's mediocre pace attack and it's best you leave with some credibility intact :srini
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No Naseem, No Shaheen, No Abbas, No Rauf. :inti
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
He has a very low iq, shouldn't be allowed to browse Internet.
Always gets proven wrong and comes up with some random useless, out of context paragraphs.
Bumrah and Siraj are thrice the bowler Naseem is.

How can someone be so clueless after watching cricket for decades.
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LMAO the guy who keeps calling Sachin a 'choker' is talking about low IQ? Now tell me where was I proven wrong? And look at the predictions you have been making since Asia Cup and World Cup. All of them were wrong. It's you who should stop using internet for some time because you keep digging a deeper hole everytime you post here. :91:

At least read the post. I said on this road even Bumrah and Siraj would have struggled. Doesn't make them a lesser bowler than Naseem. Grow up. :inti
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
No Naseem, No Shaheen, No Abbas, No Rauf. :inti
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Naseem averages 37 with the ball and was part of the team when PAK lost to Australia and England (1st test) . Also, is perpetually injured.

Abbas was last seen trundling at 75-78 mph. Lol if you think he would've done anything here.

Rauf? Like seriously? Played 1 test and has barely played any FC cricket.

I'll give you Shaheen . But he couldnt prevent the loss to Australia either . Also no guarantee he will even be that good after his injury.

So yeah no comparison at all. :rabada2
 
They need to pick test match specialists and not t20 bowlers who have no control.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Naseem averages 37 with the ball and was part of the team when PAK lost to Australia and England (1st test) . Also, is perpetually injured.

Abbas was last seen trundling at 75-78 mph. Lol if you think he would've done anything here.

Rauf? Like seriously? Played 1 test and has barely played any FC cricket.

I'll give you Shaheen . But he couldnt prevent the loss to Australia either . Also no guarantee he will even be that good after his injury.

So yeah no comparison at all. :rabada2
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Naseem is still a baby in international cricket so hold your horses there. My point was none of these guys were even playing so I would like to know about those posters who were calling the current bowling attack of Pakistan the best in the world. And you won't use this 'no guarantee he will even be that good after injury' for someone like Bumrah? Some of you are hypocrites. :inti
 
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Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Naseem is still a baby in international cricket so hold your horses there. My point was none of these guys were even playing so I would like to know about those posters who were calling the current bowling attack of Pakistan the best in the world. And you won't use this 'no guarantee he will even be that good after injury' for someone like Bumrah? Some of you are hypocrites. :inti
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Best in the world in T20' s . Which is a fact. Nobody us denying that. And i do use that same argument for Bumrah so not sure why you have to resort to cheap lies to make a point.

But India won the Gabba test without Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami or Bumrah. Pakistan had their full strength bowling attack with Shaheen, Hasan and Naseem at their disposal and still lost to Australia at home.

No guarantee even their full strength could've avoided a whitewash
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Best in the world in T20' s . Which is a fact. Nobody us denying that. And i do use that same argument for Bumrah so not sure why you have to resort to cheap lies to make a point.

But India won the Gabba test without Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami or Bumrah. Pakistan had their full strength bowling attack with Shaheen, Hasan and Naseem at their disposal and still lost to Australia at home.

No guarantee even their full strength could've avoided a whitewash
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Bro, there is no guarantee that India would have won the Gabba test with their full strength also so this works both way. :inti
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Bro, there is no guarantee that India would have won the Gabba test with their full strength also so this works both way. :inti
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It doesn't matter. Atleast there is some bowling attack that can win tests abroad and consistently win at home .

Until Pakistan can find an attack that win tests ANYWHERE then there is zero comparison with India or anybody else .


It's like comparing 3/4 donkeys with elite racehorses at this point.
 
Pakistan still are a very good attack in LO format. They can win games from any position with their bowling attack and they showed it in Australia as well. The Test bowling though is mediocre. The bowlers like Naseem & Rauf are good in the white ball format due to their speed and their ability to bowl well and fast with the new ball but for Tests the skill required is different. Also in Tests you would have to bowl 15-16 overs in a day and come back the next day repeat the same. Rauf hasn't played enough FC games to be able to maintain control through the day in Tests. Probably the best solution for Pakistan is that send Hasnain & Rauf and let them play couple of full domestic seasons and get some experience bowling in that format. Naseem, I am not sure as he has played 25+ FC games but still lacks control and skill at the Test level. So may be it is just the experience thing or he probably is not suited to this format.

Not all bowlers who are used to bowling just 4 overs can crack it at the Test level. Bumrah was an exception but even he had 20 odd FC games under his belt before making his Test debut. Rauf has just 8 FC games and Hasnain 7, so getting them to Tests will be a bad idea. Not everyone can be Waqar or Wasim.

People make fun of India bowlers but you will hardly see a India Test bowler who hasn't played at least 20 odd FC games before their debut. Siraj was an accomplished bowler in FC & on India A tours before making his Test debut. Same with Mohammed Shami & Umesh Yadav. India might pick rookies based on IPL performances for ODIs and T20Is but for Tests only people with performances in domestic cricket are picked. Thakur had more than 200 FC wickets before making his Test debut. Saini who made his Test debut in that series has 50 odd FC games under his belt.

The only time India had to play someone with no FC experience was in Australia when they included Natarajan but again those were desperate times.
 
On 27th December 2022, this thread will be 2 years old.

Has [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] provided the list of 38 Indian bowlers yet?

(I haven't read the entire thread).
 
Technics 1210 said:
On 27th December 2022, this thread will be 2 years old.

Has [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] provided the list of 38 Indian bowlers yet?

(I haven't read the entire thread).
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Unadkat is better than every bowler that Pakistan has. If you do not believe me, ask Rahul Dravid.
 
Pretty confident none of those 38 will lose a HOME series 3-zip to an English team with newbies and intent on hitting out!!
 
Naseem is a youngster with a decent bit of talent behind him. But the Pakistani team management has hyped him so much by fudging his age that like other Pakistani pacers, he too has gotten used to of the hype and doesn't feel like improving and working on his skills.

The longevity of Pakistani bowlers are pretty less and that is what they need to address if they want to become a strong test team like SENAI teams are.
 
Umesh Yadav has better sustainability than most Pakistani pacers in last 20 years.
 
Ab Fan said:
Naseem is a youngster with a decent bit of talent behind him. But the Pakistani team management has hyped him so much by fudging his age that like other Pakistani pacers, he too has gotten used to of the hype and doesn't feel like improving and working on his skills.

The longevity of Pakistani bowlers are pretty less and that is what they need to address if they want to become a strong test team like SENAI teams are.
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Not sure what do you mean by Pakistani team management hyping him by fudging his age? Do you have any links or sources for that? :inti
 
Naseem is a solid bowler

I recon he would fetch top money in the hundred draft.
 
Rana said:
Naseem is a solid bowler

I recon he would fetch top money in the hundred draft.
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Think this trio is very good

fmBizn3.png
 
Mobashir said:
Is league cricket your favorite cricket that you bring it in about every thread ?
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No, but I do like the concept of player value based on international performance.

League cricket is a great indicator at how investors are looking to spend their money in the hope of silverware
 
This world cup will decide Naseem's worth. The argument on whether Naseem is good or not will be decided after this world cup.
He does pick wickets against weaker sides, but does struggle abit against top sides. But this world cup will have all the top players playing, so I will reserve my judgement till than.
 
Major said:
This world cup will decide Naseem's worth. The argument on whether Naseem is good or not will be decided after this world cup.
He does pick wickets against weaker sides, but does struggle abit against top sides. But this world cup will have all the top players playing, so I will reserve my judgement till than.
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he has already performed enough to prove his worth worth. Remember last year t20 world cup and Aisia Cup? He was unplayable!
 
Him, Shaheen, Haris, Wasim Jnr. and Usama Mir would be the best bowling attack going into the World Cup. Should make Pakistan favourites.
 
Major said:
This world cup will decide Naseem's worth. The argument on whether Naseem is good or not will be decided after this world cup.
He does pick wickets against weaker sides, but does struggle abit against top sides. But this world cup will have all the top players playing, so I will reserve my judgement till than.
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Cricket Warrior said:
he has already performed enough to prove his worth worth. Remember last year t20 world cup and Aisia Cup? He was unplayable!
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exactly.

My assessment that he is a ‘top money fetcher’ comes after watching him very closely in the last two years in white ball cricket.

He bowled brilliantly against India as well in the games he has played (bar 1 maybe). He bowls a hell of a lot dot balls too with the new ball.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Him, Shaheen, Haris, Wasim Jnr. and Usama Mir would be the best bowling attack going into the World Cup. Should make Pakistan favourites.
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i wont go with Usama Mir.. Might be we can replace him with any proper middle order batsman like saud shakeel. we already have too many bowling alrounders like iftikhar and agha who can bowl as well.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Him, Shaheen, Haris, Wasim Jnr. and Usama Mir would be the best bowling attack going into the World Cup. Should make Pakistan favourites.
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They wouldn't pick Wasim as they will play 2 spinners on which will be Shadab
 
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