IPL is far better at nurturing upcoming talent than PSL, A fact!

[Gullycricket]

As a PCT cricket team fan, this is by no means a comparison of quality of cricket between two of the top leagues in the world but a look at how native players are given chances in both leagues:

IPL: I have been watching a few IPL games after long time and was impressed seeing how in top 5 or 6 of every team there are number of Indian players whom i have never even heard of and they are all pretty good. I saw Shubham Gill,Mayank Agarwal coming out as an openers for their respective teams, a captaincy prospect for India in future like KL Rahul already handling that responsibility admirably. Similarly many other talented players are batting around international stars in top positions. Similarly young bowlers like Mavi and impressive wrist spinners are getting their chances and developing along.

PSL: Been following PSL from start and it was supposed to be a platform for us to identify upcoming talent and nurture them who otherwise get lost in the system. The PSL has been able to do that somewhat. But what saddens me is to see most youngsters in PSL are pushed too deep in batting with top 5 spots going to foreign players or oldies. Barring Haider, Babar and a few i may have missed, most talented players just sit on the sidelines. We prefer useless discards like Ramdin who despite constant failures was persisted with. Kami, Shahzad, Umar Akmal who never improved block chances of youngsters while playing under the "youngsters" quota. Its a retirement scheme for Hafeez, Malik as Misbah and Afridi has showed them.

I am aware of the money and clout IPL has but this is something PSL can remedy easily. No Indian players playing in PSL makes it easier as we have one less team to accommodate.

I end this discussion with just a glaring example of the treatment of players:

1. In IPL, Ganguly who was a legend was dropped as he was not fitting the plans of the teams
2. In PSL, a youngster like Saif Badar is shouted at , disrespected and "shown his place".

So fellow PPers what do you feel? Would love the discussion to move along

 

[BreadPakoda]

I can understand your frustration and agree with the broader point. Unfortunately, this is franchise cricket and owners are not responsible for developing new talent. If Kami is scoring and dare I say, is popular, why would a franchise not select him?

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

The talent comes from domestic cricket. That's where the credit or criticism should go. Gill, Agarwal, Mavi weren't picked from the streets by these franchises.

 

[Sidilicious]

Completely disagree. You do not nurture talents in a 2 months a year tourney. It’s the Indian domestic system that nurtures talent and IPL simply adds the finishing touches.

 

[JattMaula]

While franchises support/look after players they believe in all year round they don't nurture anyone.

They just play the best available team to win the match and tournament. Lots of money is invested in teams, they can't act as a development platform.

 

[Mamoon]

We need to understand that both countries are in completely different situations.

Pakistan cricket is in desperate situation and it has to do bhangra around mediocre, washed foreign players in order to appease them so that they can convince their boards to tour Pakistan.

On the other hand, the top players in the world are desperate to get a chance to play in the IPL which is as big as international cricket.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I haven't seen much of PSL but surely I never had a complaint against IPL for not giving youngsters a chance. Rather most teams have always pushed youngsters, made them open the batting and bowling.

4 foreign players a side rule has always helped and must be strictly followed

 

[FreePalestine]

I agree with posters above that this is a broader issue than just a batting order.

Having said that, I agree with you that PSL teams did not treat youngsters very well and that the ‘senior’ culture in Pakistan is alive and strong. Misbah keeps talking about ‘youngsters’ but then he picks Imran Khan Snr to play a test in Australia, revitalizes the careers of has beens like Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali, Mohammad Irfan and youngsters who are nowhere near ready for test cricket like Musa. Now I am worried he is going to run Shaheen Shah Afridi into the ground. So this shows that they have no idea how to prepare youngsters for international cricket in a methodical and gradual way. Their whole thinking rests on what happened in the late 80’s, i.e. we managed to pluck Wasim Akram out of obscurity and he somehow picked up NZ wickets in a practice match which was in fact his first fc game. He was then fast tracked into the national side. Since then (arguably even since Mushtaq Mohammad), Pakistan’s entire youth development policy is ‘throw them in at the deep end. They will learn on the job’.

 

[shamaan]

Youngsters should be developed throw the domestic tournaments this year theirs new and upcoming players have been picked for the squad if they perform that's when the psl will recognise thier names cant expect psl to pick people who have no cricket credentials

 

[shamaan]

The talent comes from domestic cricket. That's where the credit or criticism should go. Gill, Agarwal, Mavi weren't picked from the streets by these franchises.

Agreed

 

[Titan24]

Your arguments are valid when it comes to nurturing batting talent in PSL but, in terms of bowling especially pacers bowling I seriously cant complaint.

I understand what you are saying but there are few things which need to be considered. Firstly I really liked the idea of emerging player introduced in PSL, it makes sure that a team plays atleast one emerging player. However, the question comes in why not many batsmen are being selected on those positions?

Reason is mixture of couple of things, firstly teams in PSL rely mainly on the overseas batting talent influenced by the fact that most of the platinum and diamond overseas picks are batsmen and they have enough local bowling talent to have strong T20 bowling attacks without going for a lot of overseas players in that department. So when 2-3 and sometimes all 4 slots are taken by overseas batting talent, how is anyone going to fit in young batting talent in that?

Haider Ali was groomed exceptionally well firstly by Northern and then by PZ in PSL. Ideally I agree that just like Haider other young batsmen like Omair Yousuf, Abdullah Shafique, Zeeshan Malik, Mohammad Huraira, Imran Rafiq, Mohammad Haris etc should also be provided such opportunities in the top order.

I also created a thread floating an idea that maybe there can be two emerging players and one has to be a batsman or a batting all rounder.

 

[JaDed]

That's our domestic bro.. our domestic cricket has improved a lot.. biggest IPL find is only Bumrah as far as i can remember..

But yes everyone gets to showcase what they are made of, coz pressure situations etc.. while domestic you still might keep hitting knocks and going nowhere.

This is the reasons Sarfaraz has to perform for his team in IPL...

 

[JaDed]

While franchises support/look after players they believe in all year round they don't nurture anyone.

They just play the best available team to win the match and tournament. Lots of money is invested in teams, they can't act as a development platform.

Have you seen the Mumbai Indian IPL thingy on netflix, I haven't seen anyone with as bad as an attitude than Ishan Kishan...

 

[shamaan]

Your arguments are valid when it comes to nurturing batting talent in PSL but, in terms of bowling especially pacers bowling I seriously cant complaint.

I understand what you are saying but there are few things which need to be considered. Firstly I really liked the idea of emerging player introduced in PSL, it makes sure that a team plays atleast one emerging player. However, the question comes in why not many batsmen are being selected on those positions?

Reason is mixture of couple of things, firstly teams in PSL rely mainly on the overseas batting talent influenced by the fact that most of the platinum and diamond overseas picks are batsmen and they have enough local bowling talent to have strong T20 bowling attacks without going for a lot of overseas players in that department. So when 2-3 and sometimes all 4 slots are taken by overseas batting talent, how is anyone going to fit in young batting talent in that?

Haider Ali was groomed exceptionally well firstly by Northern and then by PZ in PSL. Ideally I agree that just like Haider other young batsmen like Omair Yousuf, Abdullah Shafique, Zeeshan Malik, Mohammad Huraira, Imran Rafiq, Mohammad Haris etc should also be provided such opportunities in the top order.

I also created a thread floating an idea that maybe there can be two emerging players and one has to be a batsman or a batting all rounder.

Are the names you mentioned decent prospects or are they more suited to odis and tests?

 

[zain7077]

From the names mention by Titan24, Zeeshan Malik and Muhammad Haris are most suited to T20 Cricket.

 

[JattMaula]

Have you seen the Mumbai Indian IPL thingy on netflix, I haven't seen anyone with as bad as an attitude than Ishan Kishan...

I haven't seen that documentary but its quite common knowledge that Ishan is immature even for his age. That's why out of all the recent u19 captains he is trusted least amongst the fraternity. He has still got lot of time to grow up. Mumbai are playing a fatso instead of him, that should be warning enough.

 

[shamaan]

From the names mention by Titan24, Zeeshan Malik and Muhammad Haris are most suited to T20 Cricket.

Defo mo harris all the rest odis and tests

 

[Local.Dada]

IPL gives a platform for players to standout. 90% of casual Indian fans have no idea who Paddikal or Jaiswal are, even though they were standouts at junior and domestic level.

Now obviously Paddikal might be one step away from becoming a household name if he gets 1-2 more knocks this tournament.

However, they just won’t walk into the Indian side even if they top score in the IPL.

May be if they perform amazingly well
In the IPL, at best they might get 1-2 bilateral games against weaker sides to see if they have what it takes yet.

Look at Vihari for example. He was identified as a talented youngster from junior level back in the day in the IPL but flopped miserably, he went back and scored tons of runs in domestics and on A tours and earned his cap.

Same was the case with Mayank Aggarwal who now is a proven international star but he pretty much was under the radar all these years in IPL.

On the other hand Samson is a household name thanks to IPL but he was not given a free ride because of his attitude problems and also his mediocre domestic returns.

I know we have this PSL vs IPL debates but deep down most hardcore Indian fans treat IPL for what it is. Entertainment that’s about it.

On the other hand I think Pakistan fans seem to take PSL and PSL talent way too seriously.

Fans taking it seriously is fine but looks like the Pakistan board and team management also seem to fall into the same trap instead of rewarding consistent performers who come through a proper process.

Junior level+ atleast 1-2 full seasons of domestics + A tours+ then may be PSL performances. That should be more or less the process. How many players in the Pakistan team have gone through this grind?

If there is a once in a lifetime prodigy like Sachin or Wasim Akram thats an exception to the rule.

 

[Titan24]

From the names mention by Titan24, Zeeshan Malik and Muhammad Haris are most suited to T20 Cricket.

Defo mo harris all the rest odis and tests

All of them are young so game can be developed in quite a few dimensions if proper development and platform is provided. I agree regarding current suitability of some but, its too early to associate certain formats with each batsman. Some of the young Indian U19 batsmen selected for IPL are not necessarily big six hitters but are pretty solid batsmen overall and and can increase the SR by playing proper shots while batting in the top order.

 

[Local.Dada]

All of them are young so game can be developed in quite a few dimensions if proper development and platform is provided. I agree regarding current suitability of some but, its too early to associate certain formats with each batsman. Some of the young Indian U19 batsmen selected for IPL are not necessarily big six hitters but are pretty solid batsmen overall and and can increase the SR by playing proper shots while batting in the top order.

How many of these batsmen or bowlers play A tours in SENA conditions?

 

[Energy]

Excellent post by [MENTION=151383]Local.Dada[/MENTION] above. Although IPL produces a lot of talent each year, the selectors and the management don't go overboard with the hype and value domestic hard-grind as the ultimate benchmark. That's the hallmark of a strong and level-headed cricket board.

PSL neither produces talent, neither nurtures it. It is either a money making mafia for domestic veterans or a retirement pocket fund for overseas players. Gully-cricket 'talunt', Salman Butt, FC veterans or unfit players are some highlights of the PSL.

 

[Titan24]

How many of these batsmen or bowlers play A tours in SENA conditions?

My post was regarding batsmen. I think only Zeeshan Malik has played for A team and is 23-24, rest are either in late teenage or early 20-21. Just like teenage batsmen of Indian U19 team selected for IPL the last set of U19 players are yet to play A team cricket. Omair Yousuf is 21 and did play emerging Asia cup last year.

 

[MMHS]

I actually think opposite - if IPL was used to nurture Indian cricket/cricketers, I don't think it would have been where it's today.

T20 is not for nurturing players - it's only purpose is to bring much needed cash which can be invested in non revenue generating format like First Class Cricket & List A Cricket. In that regard, IPL indeed is doing great. Yes, IPL has given Indian young players financial security, the exposure of world class coaching staff, facilities, company (mentoring) of world's best players..... but the nurturing of players, developing core skills of the game is not the purpose of T20 cricket, neither it should be used as a selection tool other than T20 cricket.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

The fact that people think talent comes through these pyjama leagues is why Pakistan cricket is in the dumps.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Excellent post by [MENTION=151383]Local.Dada[/MENTION] above. Although IPL produces a lot of talent each year, the selectors and the management don't go overboard with the hype and value domestic hard-grind as the ultimate benchmark. That's the hallmark of a strong and level-headed cricket board.

PSL neither produces talent, neither nurtures it. It is either a money making mafia for domestic veterans or a retirement pocket fund for overseas players. Gully-cricket 'talunt', Salman Butt, FC veterans or unfit players are some highlights of the PSL.

Lol what? What is Hardik Pandya doing in the team then?

 

[shamaan]

All of them are young so game can be developed in quite a few dimensions if proper development and platform is provided. I agree regarding current suitability of some but, its too early to associate certain formats with each batsman. Some of the young Indian U19 batsmen selected for IPL are not necessarily big six hitters but are pretty solid batsmen overall and and can increase the SR by playing proper shots while batting in the top order.

I rather work with qasim akram mo harris rohail nazir irfan Khan in t20s

 

[Energy]

Lol what? What is Hardik Pandya doing in the team then?

Hardik is a one-off. Possibly obsession with having a pace allrounder in the mix. I'm thinking of guys like Samson, Manish Pandey, even Sarfaraz, who would have been automatic selections in Pakistan for 10 years on the basis of one good tournament.

 

[Titan24]

Hardik is a one-off. Possibly obsession with having a pace allrounder in the mix. I'm thinking of guys like Samson, Manish Pandey, even Sarfaraz, who would have been automatic selections in Pakistan for 10 years on the basis of one good tournament.

Other than Shadab and Shaheen who had I guess around 4 and 1 FC matches none got selected for Pakistan based upon PSL performances alone (Yes got highlighted) without having some FC experience behind them. Haris Rauf has only played T20s till now and is another exception, rest of the PSL performers had quite a lot of FC experience behind them before representing Pakistan. Be it Sharjeel, Fakhar, Hassan Rumman, Shinwari etc.

It all depends upon how settled a team is. India has been a settled team over the last few years or so, they needed a pace bowling all rounder and brought Pandya early without anything extraordinary behind him.

Compare that to Pakistan. Look at the WC squad of 2015, Pak team needed an overhaul in LOI format from top to bottom. With the inauguration of PSL in 2016 and few players coming into limelight made selectors going towards them straight away.

If we consider the last PSL, there is only Haider Ali who was already averaging 49 in FC cricket in his first season showed some good temperament and skills got selected in Pak t20 setup because Pak needed batsmen for the format who can be dynamic. Compare that to Umer Khan (SLA) who was simply outstanding in 2018 season of PSL, took wicket of every single top batsman in the tournument but could get a chance in national team because Imad and Shadab were settled as spinners in LOIs and Umer Khan also didnt have much domestic experience to push his case further.

Irrespective of Pak's performances in recent times, they have got atleast a pool of players which was completely missing in 2014-15. Unless someone does extremely well and breakthrough the door of selection like Haider did targeting the exact spot Pakistan was finding the player for it wont be easy to get in especially in ODIs and Tests. Yes if a young batsman like Haider Ali shows his skills in longer format and then adapts the shorter format well showing ability to be dynamic then you never know.

 

[Gullycricket]

I agree with posters here that talent should be groomed more at domestic level. But platforms like IPL,PSL are necessary for exposure to things which these players will never face at domestic level. If the only motive for franchises is to win in PSL, why are they persisting with Shehzad, Umar Akmal or even oldies when they can be better off with youngsters. Don't we have any better players than Ramdin, Walton etc to play.LQ had Azhar Ali for God's sake as captain. Still doesn't explain how Shaw, Gill and other youngsters are playing in top 3 while we shove youngsters outside top 5 or make them sit on bench.

 

[JattMaula]

I agree with posters here that talent should be groomed more at domestic level. But platforms like IPL,PSL are necessary for exposure to things which these players will never face at domestic level. If the only motive for franchises is to win in PSL, why are they persisting with Shehzad, Umar Akmal or even oldies when they can be better off with youngsters. Don't we have any better players than Ramdin, Walton etc to play.LQ had Azhar Ali for God's sake as captain. Still doesn't explain how Shaw, Gill and other youngsters are playing in top 3 while we shove youngsters outside top 5 or make them sit on bench.

There is an explanation but you wouldn't like it.

 

[viveks]

India's talents in ODIs and Tests come from domestic cricket, and same thing with Pakistan. I'm sure that both sets improve in T20 in PSL and in IPL, but I know that that's not the kind of "nurturing" most people on this forum want.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Pakistan domestic cricket is a mafia - blocking youngsters.

There is very little talent to nurture at PSL because youngsters don't get a chance.

PSL is just an outcome of the disease that is Pakistan domestic cricket. That is why I am hopeful of good things happening with the new setup.

 

[hitthestump]

There is no nurture of talent at PSL. As soon as you score a pretty 20-30 or clock 150kph everyone does a bhangra about you and then you're thrown into international cricket.

Once you fail you find the next guy who has done the above, do a bhangra and then rinse and repeat.

It's a joke how much sway a pyjama t20 tournament has on our national team. We should be selecting based on daddy hundreds and bowling averages, not sure the PCB has the attention span for that though.

 

[naseem]

Psl and Ipl or any t20 leagues for that matter is not the place of nurturing.........it is business about time we accept it

 

[shamaan]

Pakistan domestic cricket is a mafia - blocking youngsters.

There is very little talent to nurture at PSL because youngsters don't get a chance.

PSL is just an outcome of the disease that is Pakistan domestic cricket. That is why I am hopeful of good things happening with the new setup.

What about amir khan akif javed umer khan haider ali zeeshan Ashraf ect

 

[shamaan]

There is no nurture of talent at PSL. As soon as you score a pretty 20-30 or clock 150kph everyone does a bhangra about you and then you're thrown into international cricket.

Once you fail you find the next guy who has done the above, do a bhangra and then rinse and repeat.

It's a joke how much sway a pyjama t20 tournament has on our national team. We should be selecting based on daddy hundreds and bowling averages, not sure the PCB has the attention span for that though.

Who has played international that was played on the back of psl only

 

[naseem]

What about amir khan akif javed umer khan haider ali zeeshan Ashraf ect

Ppl will always notice the bad in you

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

What about amir khan akif javed umer khan haider ali zeeshan Ashraf ect

How many chances did they get compared to the oldies? What is the strategy of allowing them to fail vs. others.

And I am talking about domestic cricket - where older cricketers block younger one's at major opportunities such as televised events.

I was so disappointed last 2-3 editions of PSL where I wanted to see many new faces and you have the same one's showing up all the time.

 

[Rana]

Nagarkoti and Mavi 2 overs each today

Why select young talent in IPL in the first place?

 

[shamaan]

How many chances did they get compared to the oldies? What is the strategy of allowing them to fail vs. others.

And I am talking about domestic cricket - where older cricketers block younger one's at major opportunities such as televised events.

I was so disappointed last 2-3 editions of PSL where I wanted to see many new faces and you have the same one's showing up all the time.

All the above barring amir Khan played majority of the games for psl teams.i cant remember someone failing and then getting dropped can you name a couple in psl.

Yes that's cuz the old system didnt get rid of the mediocre or older players we have already seen the likes of umar gull,farhat retired after this season also a few others including Salman refusing to play.

The psl is thier for people to win tournaments that's the whole aim.

The domestic season t20 national cup thier is quite alot of new youngesters and should be given 100 percent chance to shine

 

[shamaan]

Ppl will always notice the bad in you

Ygm 3everyone tournament psl ipl ect will have weaknesses and strengths yes we want youngesters but if management in psl dont then they dont need to

 

[hitthestump]

Who has played international that was played on the back of psl only

Shadab Khan
Fakhar Zaman
Musa Khan
Mohammad Hasnain
Haris Rauf
Haider Ali

PSL fasttracked them all. There isn't a strong FC/List A bowling average or daddy hundred scoring player among them.

 

[shamaan]

Shadab Khan
Fakhar Zaman
Musa Khan
Mohammad Hasnain
Haris Rauf
Haider Ali

PSL fasttracked them all. There isn't a strong FC/List A bowling average or daddy hundred scoring player among them.

Half of them also played u19s before they had a chance in psl I belive

 

[Artaxerxes]

Why people obsessed with IPL v PSL?.These are two different leagues from two different countries.PSL was created to promote Pakistan cricket.It is doing a good job.

 

[Shafi]

According to some Indian fans top 4 IPL teams are better than Pakistan, SL, BD, WI team. Is our team really that bad?

 

[BreadPakoda]

According to some Indian fans top 4 IPL teams are better than Pakistan, SL, BD, WI team. Is our team really that bad?

I disagree with these posters. One could say that MI (best IPL side) and Pakistan can be a good match. Similarly, WI is better than all IPL sides and has been better than even the Indian T20I side on crucial occasions.

All IPL teams can definitely give the BD and SL team a run for their rupee.