What's new

Iran drops India from Chabahar project because of delay in funds

This is driven by $400bn 25 year strategic deal with China I presume. This would irk US big time if China can extend influence in Iran.
 
I feel like India v China is going to be the new Cold War.

It won’t. I am an Indian and have some business connections in China. I have seen how China does business. China is not far off economically from USA. India is not even playing in the same league.

There will be some tussle between the two countries, but when it comes to economic ties and prowess, China will come ahead of us 95% of the time (as much as it pains to say it).

We will be helped by the western economies and governments giving us more business (they will want to reduce their business with China and not be so dependent. Not just India BTW. Most of South Asia and south east Asia will benefit). But we will not be able to match China. Their customer acquisition commitment is examplary. I have never seen any client so long run oriented.

Now, the next few years,,especially 2022 onwards, will be good for India and Indian economy. But a lot of egos will be hurt if we start taking on China at an economic level.

Militarily, it will be a stalemate, because both countries are not stupid enough to engage in a war. There will be skirmishes like we recently had. But those will be only for internal political reasons ie both Chinese premiere and Modi wanted to love the focus from their failures to an external threat.
 
Last edited:
Good, I never saw much point in the Chabahar, Iranians are hamstrung in every way, plus they keep changing their mind every few weeks. It would have been a disaster if India spent all that money to make the Iranian project a reality.
 
It won’t. I am an Indian and have some business connections in China. I have seen how China does business. China is not far off economically from USA. India is not even playing in the same league.

There will be some tussle between the two countries, but when it comes to economic ties and prowess, China will come ahead of us 95% of the time (as much as it pains to say it).

We will be helped by the western economies and governments giving us more business (they will want to reduce their business with China and not be so dependent. Not just India BTW. Most of South Asia and south east Asia will benefit). But we will not be able to match China. Their customer acquisition commitment is examplary. I have never seen any client so long run oriented.

Now, the next few years,,especially 2022 onwards, will be good for India and Indian economy. But a lot of egos will be hurt if we start taking on China at an economic level.

Militarily, it will be a stalemate, because both countries are not stupid enough to engage in a war. There will be skirmishes like we recently had. But those will be only for internal political reasons ie both Chinese premiere and Modi wanted to love the focus from their failures to an external threat.

Probably one of the most level headed posts about the aforementioned topic on this forum.

with regards to this investment, its better for India to decouple from Iran. its just a loss making issue. One of the reasons they have prolonged their engagement has been due to the balochi stuff. But that is also petering off a little now.

I still think they are missing a trick by not engaging Imran Khans govt. They can acheive alot without firing a shot and a really not thinking things through for the long term.
 
So Chabahar Project has been reduced from a game changer to a potential disaster with this one decision.

Interesting developments.
 
The port could never have competed with Gwadar anyway.


Good decision by Iran to cut off gangrene limb
 
Beyond the port, perhaps the new China-Iran deal would pave the way for peace along the Balochistan border, and improved relations with Iran generally. Over the years, we’ve allowed ourselves to be dragged too far into the Saudi camp, much to the detriment of Pakistan-Iran relations.
 
Beyond the port, perhaps the new China-Iran deal would pave the way for peace along the Balochistan border, and improved relations with Iran generally. Over the years, we’ve allowed ourselves to be dragged too far into the Saudi camp, much to the detriment of Pakistan-Iran relations.

This.

If the strategic deal with Iran brings economic resurgence to Iran's economy it would surely ease out tensions which are driven by poverty. This might also mean crackdown on certain groups operating out of Iran carrying attacks in Pakistan (something similar to PSX type attack).
 
This.

If the strategic deal with Iran brings economic resurgence to Iran's economy it would surely ease out tensions which are driven by poverty. This might also mean crackdown on certain groups operating out of Iran carrying attacks in Pakistan (something similar to PSX type attack).

As a Persophile, frayed Pakistan-Iran relations have pained me no end. Centuries of Persian influence and cordial relations between 1947 all the way up to the late 70s shunted aside in favor of a relationship with the Wahhabi Entity, entirely to our detriment: we’ve been the battleground for sectarian warfare, had a needlessly hostile neighbor along the South West, been at loggerheads with Iran in Afghanistan, and provided the Humsaaya Mulk a strategic opening along that border. Last but not least, we cannot ignore Iranian influence among the Shia in Pakistan, GB in particular, and Kargil in Ladakh. We can do without a hostile Iran.

One swallow does not a summer make, but here’s to hoping.
 
Last edited:
Lol wasn’t this supposed to the game changer as our Indian friends told us post after post

I guess daddy USA brought down the hammer as they did with cheap oil imports via Iran
 
Beyond the port, perhaps the new China-Iran deal would pave the way for peace along the Balochistan border, and improved relations with Iran generally. Over the years, we’ve allowed ourselves to be dragged too far into the Saudi camp, much to the detriment of Pakistan-Iran relations.

We are fencing Pak-Iran border as well, in addition to Pak-Afghan border. Once it is completed, the Balochistan issue will be resolved once for all.
 
Probably one of the most level headed posts about the aforementioned topic on this forum.

with regards to this investment, its better for India to decouple from Iran. its just a loss making issue. One of the reasons they have prolonged their engagement has been due to the balochi stuff. But that is also petering off a little now.

I still think they are missing a trick by not engaging Imran Khans govt. They can acheive alot without firing a shot and a really not thinking things through for the long term.

Don't give them ideas. Modi is a blessing for Pakistan.
 
Lol wasn’t this supposed to the game changer as our Indian friends told us post after post

I guess daddy USA brought down the hammer as they did with cheap oil imports via Iran

There’s also some speculation that the Iranians weren’t all too pleased with the burgeoning Humsaaya Mulk-Israel nexus. All those photo ops with Netanyahu probably didn’t help.

Apparently the Chabahar port and railway was exempt from sanctions, so unlike the cheap oil imports, this was viable, especially with regards to the Humsaaya Mulk strategy vis-a-vis Afghanistan and Central Asia beyond. This is a veritable coup, their grapes-are-sour protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
 
Iran drops India from key Chabahar project; Ink $400 billion partnership with China

Oh how the turn tables.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1569090/iran-drops-india-from-key-chabahar-project

NEW DELHI: Iran and China have finalised a $400 billion strategic partnership deal, and a significant political casualty is the Chabahar to Zahedan rail project with India, which Iran has called off citing delayed finances, The Hindu reported on Tuesday.

It said Iranian Transport and Urban Development Minister Mohammad Eslami last week inaugurated the track-laying process for the 628km Chabahar-Zahedan line, which will be extended to Zaranj across the border in Afghanistan.

The development comes as China finalises a massive 25-year, $400bn strategic partnership deal with Iran, which, the paper said, could cloud India’s plans.

Officials told The Hindu that the entire project would be completed by March 2022, and that Iranian Railways would proceed without India’s assistance four years after they signed the agreement.
Article continues after ad

Tehran, Beijing finalise $400bn partnership deal

Iran would instead use approximately $400 million from the Iranian National Development Fund. It was not clear if the unnamed officials were Indian, Iranian or some other.

The Hindu cited “leaked versions” of the 18-page “Comprehensive Plan for Cooperation between Iran and China”, being finalised by officials in Tehran and Beijing. The cooperation will extend from investments in infrastructure, manufacturing and upgrading energy and transport facilities, to refurbishing ports, refineries and other installations, and will commit Iranian oil and gas supplies to China during that period.

The newspaper quoted Iranian officials as denying a report that also suggested Chabahar port would be leased to China. However, according to The Hindu, Iran proposed a tie-up between the Chinese-run port at Gwadar and Chabahar last year, and has offered interests to China in the Bandar-e-Jask port 350km away from Chabahar, as well as in the Chabahar duty free zone.

The railway project, which was being discussed between the Iranian Railways and the state-owned Indian Railways Construction Ltd (IRCON), was meant to be part of India’s commitment to the trilateral agreement between India, Iran and Afghanistan to build an alternative trade route to Afghanistan and Central Asia.

In May 2016, during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Tehran to sign the Chabahar agreement with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani and Afghan President Ashraf Ghani, IRCON had signed an MoU with the Iranian rail ministry.

The MoU was to construct the Chabahar-Zahedan railway as “part of transit and transportation corridor in trilateral agreement between India, Iran and Afghanistan”. IRCON had promised to provide all services and financing for the project (around $1.6bn).

However, despite several site visits by IRCON engineers, and preparations by Iranian Railways, India never began the work, ostensibly due to worries that these could attract US sanctions. The US had provided a sanctions waiver for the Chabahar port and the rail line to Zahedan, but it has been difficult to find equipment suppliers and partners due to worries they could be targeted by the US, said officials. India has already “zeroed out” its oil imports from Iran due to the sanctions.

India’s Ministry of External Affairs and IRCON declined to comment on the issue, The Hindu said.

Published in Dawn, July 15th, 2020
 
Chinese are levelheaded, smart and realistic. They know how to manoeuvre around and produce a strategic win.

In my opinion, this is a bigger loss for India than that worthless valley conquered by China.

As above posters are reiterating, Pakistan should strengthen its ties to Iran. We should be more like China (economy focused) and less like 'Murica (conflict focused).

China is slowly becoming a very unique and unprecedented superpower.
 
There’s also some speculation that the Iranians weren’t all too pleased with the burgeoning Humsaaya Mulk-Israel nexus. All those photo ops with Netanyahu probably didn’t help.

Apparently the Chabahar port and railway was exempt from sanctions, so unlike the cheap oil imports, this was viable, especially with regards to the Humsaaya Mulk strategy vis-a-vis Afghanistan and Central Asia beyond. This is a veritable coup, their grapes-are-sour protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

Also India has been cozying up to the Gulf monarchs, whom the Iranians have no love for.
 
I would love for us to have brotherly relations but Iran makes no friends.

Just need enough relations to ensure our border and theirs is kept nice and quiet. We can then work on trade. If the Chinese get heavily involved we may see some rail and road connections being modernised between the two nations. This will inevitably link up with CPEC and also add Iran to the OBOR initiative. thus solidifying the ancient silk road links from all sides.

In the future one should be able to take a train from Tehran and travel all the way to Beijing. Not forgetting the links with central Asia.
 
As a Persophile, frayed Pakistan-Iran relations have pained me no end. Centuries of Persian influence and cordial relations between 1947 all the way up to the late 70s shunted aside in favor of a relationship with the Wahhabi Entity, entirely to our detriment: we’ve been the battleground for sectarian warfare, had a needlessly hostile neighbor along the South West, been at loggerheads with Iran in Afghanistan, and provided the Humsaaya Mulk a strategic opening along that border. Last but not least, we cannot ignore Iranian influence among the Shia in Pakistan, GB in particular, and Kargil in Ladakh. We can do without a hostile Iran.

One swallow does not a summer make, but here’s to hoping.

Both Imran Khan and Bajwa have made an effort to improve relations with Iran. There was a Pew poll back a few years ago, and Pakistanis had the most favorable ratings of Iran of all countries polled. So in an ideal world our relation with Iran would be as good as with China.

However relations with Saudi and the other Gulf countries cant be jeopardized. Millions of Pakistanis work there, the economy would collapse without those remittances. And Arab countries have been generous in the support they have given Pakistan in time of need.

So there needs to be a delicate balance.
 
Both Imran Khan and Bajwa have made an effort to improve relations with Iran. There was a Pew poll back a few years ago, and Pakistanis had the most favorable ratings of Iran of all countries polled. So in an ideal world our relation with Iran would be as good as with China.

However relations with Saudi and the other Gulf countries cant be jeopardized. Millions of Pakistanis work there, the economy would collapse without those remittances. And Arab countries have been generous in the support they have given Pakistan in time of need.

So there needs to be a delicate balance.

But that's just it: there is no balance. For forty years now, the balance in our foreign policy between the Arabs and the Iranians has been skewed in what is in my opinion the wrong direction.

For all the remittances and the support, lets also not forget that their influence wreaked havoc on the fragile sectarian ecosystem in Pakistan.
 
But that's just it: there is no balance. For forty years now, the balance in our foreign policy between the Arabs and the Iranians has been skewed in what is in my opinion the wrong direction.

For all the remittances and the support, lets also not forget that their influence wreaked havoc on the fragile sectarian ecosystem in Pakistan.

Yes i agree with that. However things are changing. The Bajwa doctrine mentioned making Iran a strong ally. Pakistan parliament voted against joining Yemen war. Imran Khan has talked about forging Iran- Saudi peace. Relations are still skewed towards the Arabs but they are not as strong as before, especially with the Arab countries having improved relations with India and refusing to comment on Kashmir.

Neutrality is best option for Pakistan.
 
A friendly Iran trumps any fence.

No, it doesnt. Iran is the nexus of evil alongwith Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. These countries will never be peaceful or let anyone be peaceful. Iran is a terrible neightbour to have, they have hosted and supported BLA while our jahil awam went to Iran to fight their wars in Syria. Iran has supported India, and even partnered with them on Chahbar until Uncle Sam gave them a deserving smacking and China saw the opportunity to straighten them up. Iranians also suffer from severe superiority complex, and are delusional.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No, it doesnt. Iran is the nexus of evil alongwith Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. These countries will never be peaceful or let anyone be peaceful. Iran is a terrible neightbour to have, they have hosted and supported BLA while our jahil awam went to Iran to fight their wars in Syria. Iran has supported India, and even partnered with them on Chahbar until Uncle Sam gave them a deserving smacking and China saw the opportunity to straighten them up. Iranians also suffer from severe superiority complex, and are delusional.

The Islamic history here is complex, with the Shia Sunni split being one of the greatest fitnahs that the Ummah has had to face. It's also unavoidable now, with centuries of story-telling intermixed with fake facts it has resulted in both sides creating their own alternate history.

That said, the only way forward is actually living along with the differences and hoping that no major war takes place between Pakistan and Iran. The policy of trying to get Iran and KSA at the same table is something that should have started years ago, but it's still not too late.

Pakistan needs strategic depth, and as [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] said, friendships (ok relations with other countries) trump fences.
 
No, it doesnt. Iran is the nexus of evil alongwith Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. These countries will never be peaceful or let anyone be peaceful. Iran is a terrible neightbour to have, they have hosted and supported BLA while our jahil awam went to Iran to fight their wars in Syria. Iran has supported India, and even partnered with them on Chahbar until Uncle Sam gave them a deserving smacking and China saw the opportunity to straighten them up. Iranians also suffer from severe superiority complex, and are delusional.

They probably have equally nice things to say about us. We had cordial relations with Iran prior to the revolution and Zia's coup, so we can mend our fences... pun intended.
 
Less India has anything to do with Iran as long as it is ruled by religious fundamentalists, the better.

While many Iranians are good people, unfortunately their government makes them a very undesirable partner. Notice that the Ayatollahs, who regularly preach on Palestine are silent about the Uyghurs.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/09/irans-careful-approach-to-chinas-uyghur-crackdown/

There is nothing noble about Iran's low-level war with Israel, allegedly for the sake of the Palestinians. Their rulers are just opportunists who will pick fights that they believe will strengthen them domestically.

Tragically for the Iranian people, their rulers fight with the US condemns them to harsh sanctions.

Oil is anyway a dying industry and their oil driven current prosperity will soon end.
 

The first quote in the article you posted reads like this:
"totally false because Iran has not inked any deal with India regarding the Zahedan-Chabahr"

Agreed, as per Al Jazeera the report of the Hindu is wrong because India did not had any deal in the first place itself.

Going by either the report of the Hindu or Al Jazeera, the bottomline is India is not involved / ousted from the construction of railway line in Iran.
 
The first quote in the article you posted reads like this:
"totally false because Iran has not inked any deal with India regarding the Zahedan-Chabahr"

Agreed, as per Al Jazeera the report of the Hindu is wrong because India did not had any deal in the first place itself.

Going by either the report of the Hindu or Al Jazeera, the bottomline is India is not involved / ousted from the construction of railway line in Iran.

How can one be ousted if they are not involved in the first place?

Iran clearly states that India was to be involved only in the port.
 
Agreed, as per Al Jazeera the report of the Hindu is wrong because India did not had any deal in the first place itself.

This recent phenomenon of exiting something one never entered now has a term:

EcqE760X0AMuP_7.jpg

No innuendo having to do with coitus interruptus is implied, and is purely a figment of the reader's fervid imagination.
 
I am sure India's interests in Iran is taking a hit due to the way in which world powers are aligning themselves. Despite having a good relationship with Iran, recent events have put India on the opposite camp with US, Australia, UK, Japan etc whereas Iran finds it more profitable to align with China. What India needs to keep an eye on is whether the overall benefits of aligning with one group outweighs the losses incurred due to loss of relationship with the other. I have enough respect and trust in India's executives to believe that they will ensure that India makes enough gains to offset the losses. While there is some impact of political leadership on Indian foreign policy, I believe it is overall quite stable and is driven by the executive branch rather than the political one.
 
Probably a good thing for India. Any investment in oil and gas at this time is risky. The future is electric. The market capitalization of Tesla has gone from $80 billion about 4 months ago to $280 billion today, that is about 5X the combined market capitalization of Ford and GM.

Good, I never saw much point in the Chabahar, Iranians are hamstrung in every way, plus they keep changing their mind every few weeks. It would have been a disaster if India spent all that money to make the Iranian project a reality.

So Chabahar Project has been reduced from a game changer to a potential disaster with this one decision.

Interesting developments.

Good for us.

Shocking comments from Indian members. It was the "game changer" and the "master stroke" to keep check on Gawadar and reduce its effectiveness to a great margin. Just because India has been ousted by China through Iran, its some how "good for us". Come on, guys. This is a huge diplomatic failure and will have long lasting effects. Dont forget Iran supports you guys over Pakistan as it has shared interests of keeping Pakistan in check.
 
This recent phenomenon of exiting something one never entered now has a term:

EcqE760X0AMuP_7.jpg

No innuendo having to do with coitus interruptus is implied, and is purely a figment of the reader's fervid imagination.

Hmm that's kinda funny - exiting without entering. If 'Galwaning' goes viral & attains popular usage in the larger english speaking world, Modi has no one but himself to blame.
 
This.

If the strategic deal with Iran brings economic resurgence to Iran's economy it would surely ease out tensions which are driven by poverty. This might also mean crackdown on certain groups operating out of Iran carrying attacks in Pakistan (something similar to PSX type attack).

I would love for us to have brotherly relations but Iran makes no friends.

Chinese are levelheaded, smart and realistic. They know how to manoeuvre around and produce a strategic win.

In my opinion, this is a bigger loss for India than that worthless valley conquered by China.

As above posters are reiterating, Pakistan should strengthen its ties to Iran. We should be more like China (economy focused) and less like 'Murica (conflict focused).

China is slowly becoming a very unique and unprecedented superpower.

Both Imran Khan and Bajwa have made an effort to improve relations with Iran. There was a Pew poll back a few years ago, and Pakistanis had the most favorable ratings of Iran of all countries polled. So in an ideal world our relation with Iran would be as good as with China.

However relations with Saudi and the other Gulf countries cant be jeopardized. Millions of Pakistanis work there, the economy would collapse without those remittances. And Arab countries have been generous in the support they have given Pakistan in time of need.

So there needs to be a delicate balance.

Yes i agree with that. However things are changing. The Bajwa doctrine mentioned making Iran a strong ally. Pakistan parliament voted against joining Yemen war. Imran Khan has talked about forging Iran- Saudi peace. Relations are still skewed towards the Arabs but they are not as strong as before, especially with the Arab countries having improved relations with India and refusing to comment on Kashmir.

Neutrality is best option for Pakistan.

I was trying to find time to reply on Iran's dynamic with Pakistan and finally got some.

Iran has never been Pakistan's friend other than during Shah's time. They have engaged in proxy warfare in Pakistan through supporting BLA, and trying to sabotage projects in Gawadar etc.

They partnered with India in Chahbahar to reduce effectiveness of Gawadar, they have at every front tried to harm the interests of Pakistan.

On a sectarian level, they have raised a whole milita army with the name Zaibbouyun, where many fools from our country join the militia to fight their proxy wars in Syria and Yemen. So, they our countrymen are effectively exporting terrorism, those idiots. They are known to abet and sponsor terrorism and secatrian warfare in Pakistan as well. A certain sect's sub section in Pakistan, has more loyalty to Iran than Pakistan.

Where was Kulbushan Yadav found from, Iran? Where was Uzair Baloch trace from, Iran? Where are BLA fighters coming from, Iran? The Iranian general who was shot through a drone strike openly spoke about teaching "Pakistan a lesson".

Friendship with Iran over the Gulf who are also evil is simply not worth it. Gulf is the lesser evil as they have monetary advantage to us. Iran has the same status as North Korea worldwide, and worth nothing. They are a trouble making country and an absolute nuisance. Their military and airforce is an absolute joke, and they are a totalitarian government who dont give their own public proper internet access. When we decided not to go for Yemen war, what did it give us from Iran? Nothing. They kept supporting BLA, and their proxies in Pakistan. Instead we offended the Gulf, who have now showed a lot of leaning towards India. Then we run back to them whenever we need money?

Pakistani establishment and government have many times tried to establish friendly relations with Iran to no avail. They even keep Iran's military border attacks in Pakistan lowkey as well. Those never get many eyeballs but Iranian border is a huge issue which is why it is being fenced. The recent attack from BLA was traced to the Iranian border as the wires were found across the border.

I personally would have loved to see USA smash Iran to pieces, but welcome China's influence as it would kill India's weak influence in the region.
 
The Islamic history here is complex, with the Shia Sunni split being one of the greatest fitnahs that the Ummah has had to face. It's also unavoidable now, with centuries of story-telling intermixed with fake facts it has resulted in both sides creating their own alternate history.

That said, the only way forward is actually living along with the differences and hoping that no major war takes place between Pakistan and Iran. The policy of trying to get Iran and KSA at the same table is something that should have started years ago, but it's still not too late.

Pakistan needs strategic depth, and as [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] said, friendships (ok relations with other countries) trump fences.

They probably have equally nice things to say about us. We had cordial relations with Iran prior to the revolution and Zia's coup, so we can mend our fences... pun intended.

Pakistan needs strategic depth in Afghanistan to keep check on India - that we have through Iran. We cannot buy similar depth in Iran who is vehemently anti-Pakistan, and are jealous noisy neighbours. Tagging you both in my other much detailed reply.
 
Shocking comments from Indian members. <b>It was the "game changer" and the "master stroke" to keep check on Gawadar and reduce its effectiveness to a great margin.</b> Just because India has been ousted by China through Iran, its some how "good for us". Come on, guys. This is a huge diplomatic failure and will have long lasting effects. Dont forget Iran supports you guys over Pakistan as it has shared interests of keeping Pakistan in check.

Show me one post where I said it was a "game changer", "master stroke" or whatever. You obviously think 1.3 billion Indians all hold the same view.

No replies unless I see something intelligent. I should just use the acronym "NRUISSI" for this policy of mine :))
 
Last edited:
I was trying to find time to reply on Iran's dynamic with Pakistan and finally got some.

Iran has never been Pakistan's friend other than during Shah's time. They have engaged in proxy warfare in Pakistan through supporting BLA, and trying to sabotage projects in Gawadar etc.

They partnered with India in Chahbahar to reduce effectiveness of Gawadar, they have at every front tried to harm the interests of Pakistan.

On a sectarian level, they have raised a whole milita army with the name Zaibbouyun, where many fools from our country join the militia to fight their proxy wars in Syria and Yemen. So, they our countrymen are effectively exporting terrorism, those idiots. They are known to abet and sponsor terrorism and secatrian warfare in Pakistan as well. A certain sect's sub section in Pakistan, has more loyalty to Iran than Pakistan.

Where was Kulbushan Yadav found from, Iran? Where was Uzair Baloch trace from, Iran? Where are BLA fighters coming from, Iran? The Iranian general who was shot through a drone strike openly spoke about teaching "Pakistan a lesson".

Friendship with Iran over the Gulf who are also evil is simply not worth it. Gulf is the lesser evil as they have monetary advantage to us. Iran has the same status as North Korea worldwide, and worth nothing. They are a trouble making country and an absolute nuisance. Their military and airforce is an absolute joke, and they are a totalitarian government who dont give their own public proper internet access. When we decided not to go for Yemen war, what did it give us from Iran? Nothing. They kept supporting BLA, and their proxies in Pakistan. Instead we offended the Gulf, who have now showed a lot of leaning towards India. Then we run back to them whenever we need money?

Pakistani establishment and government have many times tried to establish friendly relations with Iran to no avail. They even keep Iran's military border attacks in Pakistan lowkey as well. Those never get many eyeballs but Iranian border is a huge issue which is why it is being fenced. The recent attack from BLA was traced to the Iranian border as the wires were found across the border.

I personally would have loved to see USA smash Iran to pieces, but welcome China's influence as it would kill India's weak influence in the region.
[MENTION=133726]GoUgandaCranes[/MENTION] [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION]
 
Pakistan needs strategic depth in Afghanistan to keep check on India - that we have through Iran. We cannot buy similar depth in Iran who is vehemently anti-Pakistan, and are jealous noisy neighbours. Tagging you both in my other much detailed reply.

That we have through Taiban*
 
Show me one post where I said it was a "game changer", "master stroke" or whatever. You obviously think 1.3 billion Indians all hold the same view.

No replies unless I see something intelligent. I should just use the acronym "NRUISSI" for this policy of mine :))

No post needed to back up. Just google older articles on India - Iran partnership on Chahbahar. It was counted as a great strategic victory!
 
All posts can be better analysed only in 2030, right now we should see what was being said by posters from 2005-2010 w.r.t geopolitics.
 
I was trying to find time to reply on Iran's dynamic with Pakistan and finally got some.

Iran has never been Pakistan's friend other than during Shah's time. They have engaged in proxy warfare in Pakistan through supporting BLA, and trying to sabotage projects in Gawadar etc.

They partnered with India in Chahbahar to reduce effectiveness of Gawadar, they have at every front tried to harm the interests of Pakistan.

On a sectarian level, they have raised a whole milita army with the name Zaibbouyun, where many fools from our country join the militia to fight their proxy wars in Syria and Yemen. So, they our countrymen are effectively exporting terrorism, those idiots. They are known to abet and sponsor terrorism and secatrian warfare in Pakistan as well. A certain sect's sub section in Pakistan, has more loyalty to Iran than Pakistan.

Where was Kulbushan Yadav found from, Iran? Where was Uzair Baloch trace from, Iran? Where are BLA fighters coming from, Iran? The Iranian general who was shot through a drone strike openly spoke about teaching "Pakistan a lesson".

Friendship with Iran over the Gulf who are also evil is simply not worth it. Gulf is the lesser evil as they have monetary advantage to us. Iran has the same status as North Korea worldwide, and worth nothing. They are a trouble making country and an absolute nuisance. Their military and airforce is an absolute joke, and they are a totalitarian government who dont give their own public proper internet access. When we decided not to go for Yemen war, what did it give us from Iran? Nothing. They kept supporting BLA, and their proxies in Pakistan. Instead we offended the Gulf, who have now showed a lot of leaning towards India. Then we run back to them whenever we need money?

Pakistani establishment and government have many times tried to establish friendly relations with Iran to no avail. They even keep Iran's military border attacks in Pakistan lowkey as well. Those never get many eyeballs but Iranian border is a huge issue which is why it is being fenced. The recent attack from BLA was traced to the Iranian border as the wires were found across the border.

I personally would have loved to see USA smash Iran to pieces, but welcome China's influence as it would kill India's weak influence in the region.

A couple of comments:

We will end up on a tangent, but Shia everywhere have a certain reverence for Iran, so it isn't a Pakistan-specific phenomenon. It is understandable too, given how the Shiism has traditionally been the faith of the downtrodden, so they naturally gravitate towards the one nation in the world where they are in a position of strength. Those of us who have had the luxury of belonging to the majority sect can't ever fully appreciate how this sentiment resonates with them. It is almost akin to how Jewish communities worldwide have a soft corner for Israel. They would contend that being a beleaguered minority faced with hostility makes them gravitate towards Iran, rather than their veneration for Iran causing the hostility to them. In any case, Iranian influence on Shia worldwide is a fact that needs to be taken into account: heaven forbid if we end up in a situation where they manage to influence the Shia in GB in a way detrimental to Pakistan? The Shia in Kargil already have no love lost for us.

Also on our proxies in Afghanistan, the Iranians have them too, and instead of hoping that our proxies prevail over theirs, wouldn't it better if we weren't at loggerheads?

The way I read your post, I came away with a feeling that you wouldn't mind a pacific relationship with Iran, its just that you think it isn't even possible?
 
Shocking comments from Indian members. It was the "game changer" and the "master stroke" to keep check on Gawadar and reduce its effectiveness to a great margin. Just because India has been ousted by China through Iran, its some how "good for us". Come on, guys. This is a huge diplomatic failure and will have long lasting effects. Dont forget Iran supports you guys over Pakistan as it has shared interests of keeping Pakistan in check.

lol What ? This guy, are you delusional ? :)). Show me a post where I said Iran Chabahar port was a game changer ?

Iran is a useless country with minimal influence, barely a handful of countries are on their side. They are also bipolar with their often changes in opinions, it would have been terrible for India to fund all their construction projects and then the Chinese came there and took it all over and Iran gave India the boot

Some of you just have no clue, what you are on about...
 
lol What ? This guy, are you delusional ? :)). Show me a post where I said Iran Chabahar port was a game changer ?

Iran is a useless country with minimal influence, barely a handful of countries are on their side. They are also bipolar with their often changes in opinions, it would have been terrible for India to fund all their construction projects and then the Chinese came there and took it all over and Iran gave India the boot

Some of you just have no clue, what you are on about...

Also don't forget oil is a dying industry. One early sign is the Tesla stock, which has taken off like a rocket. At current prices you add the value of stock of Ford to GM, and multiply by 5 to get the value of Tesla stock!

US, UK, Germany, Japan, South Korea, even Thailand, Indonesia and Philippines... yes!

Iran??? Only idiots will want to invest in a country that belongs to the list of 13 which kill people for apostasy. If the Saudis want to invest $15 billion in an Indian refinery, by all means take their money. However, don't invest any money there in return.

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-countries-where-apostasy-is-punishable-by-death--Z110j2Uwxb
 
Show me one post where I said it was a "game changer", "master stroke" or whatever. You obviously think 1.3 billion Indians all hold the same view.

No replies unless I see something intelligent. I should just use the acronym "NRUISSI" for this policy of mine :))

Well he did clearly say ‘Indian members.’ Seems like you have the comprehension issues here.

Also lol at you of all people being the one to decide what is an ‘intelligent post.’ Gotta say I’m unsure about whether you’re intelligent or not but you sure can be funny :))
 
Also don't forget oil is a dying industry. One early sign is the Tesla stock, which has taken off like a rocket. At current prices you add the value of stock of Ford to GM, and multiply by 5 to get the value of Tesla stock!

US, UK, Germany, Japan, South Korea, even Thailand, Indonesia and Philippines... yes!

Iran??? Only idiots will want to invest in a country that belongs to the list of 13 which kill people for apostasy. If the Saudis want to invest $15 billion in an Indian refinery, by all means take their money. However, don't invest any money there in return.

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-countries-where-apostasy-is-punishable-by-death--Z110j2Uwxb

Exactly, Iran was a dead duck investment. It was more of a wishful thinking by PM Modi hoping it would work out. The Chabahar was one of the few bad decisions he made, I am glad the Chinese bailed us out of this to be honest...
 
Well he did clearly say ‘Indian members.’ Seems like you have the comprehension issues here.

Also lol at you of all people being the one to decide what is an ‘intelligent post.’ Gotta say I’m unsure about whether you’re intelligent or not but you sure can be funny :))

Umm what ? He quoted us and said we made shocking comments and then went on with his delusional post claiming that the reason we were saying Chabhahar was no longer a good option because the Chinese outsted India from it. Our point was; we never supported the idea of Chabhahar from the start before the Chinese even came into the picture... Regardless of if he was talking about the rest of the Indians posters here, he directly addressed us who posted on this thread, so it is worth the reply..


I don't know, maybe your comprehension needs further review ?
 
Last edited:
Also don't forget oil is a dying industry. One early sign is the Tesla stock, which has taken off like a rocket. At current prices you add the value of stock of Ford to GM, and multiply by 5 to get the value of Tesla stock!

US, UK, Germany, Japan, South Korea, even Thailand, Indonesia and Philippines... yes!

Iran??? Only idiots will want to invest in a country that belongs to the list of 13 which kill people for apostasy. If the Saudis want to invest $15 billion in an Indian refinery, by all means take their money. However, don't invest any money there in return.

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-countries-where-apostasy-is-punishable-by-death--Z110j2Uwxb

Don’t care about Iran but please stop posting inaccuracies to make a point.

Firstly. Vehicles aren’t the only thing which run on crude oil. You’re making it seem like that’s it. Plastics, jet fuel, rubber, prosthetics and a long list are a result of the byproducts of crude. And anyways Tesla still forms a minuscule part of the US vehicle market before we even get into the world market. Market cap is one metric and it is driven (especially right now) on sentiment in a bull market. So yes it’s doing well but it’s factually incorrect to suggest that the world or even US vehicles do not run on gasoline by and large or that there has been a huge cultural shift to render conventional cars obsolete anytime soon.

Secondly. It’s the oil and gas industry and Iran has significant gas deposits. Global use of gas is growing at a high rate especially with LNG boom post-2015. US has actually led the boom here with several liquefaction terminals coming online within the next few years. Iran with its massive deposits maybe poised to take advantage of this if it gets its act right. In the US, power plants are moving away from coal to natural gas every year and I believe the %age of gas fired plants is over 30% now and most of this has all happened in the past decade.

So your assertion that it is a dying industry is a bit laughable but what is really hilarious is using Tesla’s bull run as a metric when it not knocking over the conventional cars from their perch anytime soon and even more importantly; the oil and gas industry is not entirely dependent on this segment. Oil is at $40/bbl which isn’t great but is at breakeven for most major producers asides from US barring Permian. And this despite little demand for jet fuel and contracted demand for petroleum.
 
Umm what ? He quoted us and said we made shocking comments and then went on with his delusional post claiming that the reason we were saying Chabhahar was no longer a good option because the Chinese outsted India from it. Our point was; we never supported the idea of Chabhahar from the start before the Chinese even came into the picture...


I don't know, maybe your comprehension needs further review ?
He said Indian members generally. You’ve been on the forum for a long time. Do you disagree that many Indian posters called it game changer when this news first came out few years ago?
 
I don't know what this is and don't care enough to educate myself on it.

All I know is, India shouldn't mess up its relations with Iran which have culturally been strong. Iranians have always come and gone like they were part of this place. Iranians in my city used to be a common sight and they too behaved naturally like they were Bangaloreans.

An Iranian in fact formed one of India's earliest metal bands :moyo

The Chabahar was one of the few bad decisions he made

:)))
 
He said Indian members generally. You’ve been on the forum for a long time. Do you disagree that many Indian posters called it game changer when this news first came out few years ago?

Many Indian posters here may have called it a game changer, I do not know, if they did, I obviously don't agree with it...
 
Our dear friend [MENTION=428]Romali_rotti[/MENTION]'s being excited about the port deal few years ago and sharing why it is 'hot':

What makes the Chabahar deal hot


Prime Minister Modi's Iran visit led to the much-awaited signing of the Chabahar deal between Iran, India and Afghanistan. Developing the port will be a major breakthrough for India's trade relations with West Asia. Here is why the Chabahar deal will be game-changer for India:



1.
Why is the deal important?



Gives India strategic heft in region; helps it bypass Pakistan & build closer ties with Iran and Afghanistan.



Closer ties with Iran will allow Delhi to secure cheaper energy imports.


Offsets China’s growing infl uence and reach in the region. China is heavily invested in developing Gwadar Port in Pakistan, of equal signifi cance, some 100-odd km west of Chabahar as the crow flies.





Chabahar Port route helps connect India with energy-rich Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan & other central Asian nations


This route is 40% shorter, 30% less expensive than trade via the Red Sea-Suez CanalMediterranean route
.


2.

Run-up to the deal

In 2009, India built a 218 km long (@$100m) link road from Delaram in western Afghanistan to Zaranj on the Iran-Afghan border to link up with Chabahar port.



Zaranj-Delaram highway connects with the 2,200 km two-lane metalled road network, known as the Garland Road that connects major cities in the country

.

3.

Why Chabahar is crucial



Sits at mouth of Strait of Hormuz area

Connects three regions: Central Asia, South Asia and West Asia

Junction of shipping, oil trade routes

About 100,000 ships sail by yearly

Region holds two-thirds world oil reserves; estimated 17 billion barrels of crude oil passes this way daily
.

4.

What it mean for Afghanistan

Unhindered access to the Indian Ocean


India-built highway will link country to Chabahar port, further trade


Afghanistan hopes to exploit $1trillion of untapped mineral wealth to earn revenue

.
5.

What India may invest in Chabahar

India will invest $85 million to build a container terminal & a multi-purpose cargo terminal


On May 6, 2015, Union minister Nitin Gadkari signed MoU with Iran to complete this by Dec 2016


Iran wants Chabahar to be the third major hub for its petrochemical industries


Indian private & public sector entities projected investment worth $22 billion in the free trade zone area


Chemicals, petrochem, steel, fertilizer are major sectors, besides Indian railways likely to invest


India was offered the project to develop Chabahar port in 2003 by Iran, intended to be a critical access-point to land-locked Afghanistan


For Afghanistan, an operational Chabahar route was a better alternative. It would reduce its dependence on Pakistan — the sole nation providing it access to the sea


Pakistan has been reluctant to allow Indian goods to pass overland through its territory


The project did not take off over US sanctions against Iran, but India has gone ahead now following lifting of the sanctions..


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/What-makes-the-Chabahar-deal-hot/listshow/52428109.cms?


This India, Iran & Afgan alliance looks very good for the future :angel:
 
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] bhai singing hymns about the strategic advantages:

1.India and Pakistan started at the same point in 1947.Dont know what history you read.Pakistan was ahead of India in first 20 years and since then India has moved ahead while Pakistan has gone way behind.

2.Good for you.But aids doesnt develop a country.Pakistan hasnt learnt anything from past mistakes.

3.Chabahar provides the same advantage as Gwadar.Because they are situated close to each other.But Chabahar gives a route to central Asia.And Iran is a much more stable country than Pakistan.
 
Our dear friend [MENTION=428]Romali_rotti[/MENTION]'s being excited about the port deal few years ago and sharing why it is 'hot':

I cannot believe I made that post,, Takes full slap on the face, Slog Owned me hands down.... My Opinion on Chabhahar has changed since then I made that delusional post... My concerns have been ever since Iran started showing its bipolar behaviour of voicing support for the Kashmiris out of the blue, which does not bond well for Indian interest...


Kudoss...
 
Our dear friend [MENTION=428]Romali_rotti[/MENTION]'s being excited about the port deal few years ago and sharing why it is 'hot':

^ Ufff romali_rotti alliya, you have dug yourself into a hole now hehe.
 
I cannot believe I made that post,, Takes full slap on the face, Slog Owned me hands down.... My Opinion on Chabhahar has changed since then I made that delusional post... My concerns have been ever since Iran started showing its bipolar behaviour of voicing support for the Kashmiris out of the blue, which does not bond well for Indian interest...


Kudoss...

Haha no worries.
 
I cannot believe I made that post,, Takes full slap on the face, Slog Owned me hands down.... My Opinion on Chabhahar has changed since then I made that delusional post... My concerns have been ever since Iran started showing its bipolar behaviour of voicing support for the Kashmiris out of the blue, which does not bond well for Indian interest...


Kudoss...

Maybe time to change your dp to a self-portrait?

:cobra
 
“To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal.”
— Henry Kissinger



India finding this out these days. Long may it continue inshallah


:salute
 
I was trying to find time to reply on Iran's dynamic with Pakistan and finally got some.

Iran has never been Pakistan's friend other than during Shah's time. They have engaged in proxy warfare in Pakistan through supporting BLA, and trying to sabotage projects in Gawadar etc.

They partnered with India in Chahbahar to reduce effectiveness of Gawadar, they have at every front tried to harm the interests of Pakistan.

On a sectarian level, they have raised a whole milita army with the name Zaibbouyun, where many fools from our country join the militia to fight their proxy wars in Syria and Yemen. So, they our countrymen are effectively exporting terrorism, those idiots. They are known to abet and sponsor terrorism and secatrian warfare in Pakistan as well. A certain sect's sub section in Pakistan, has more loyalty to Iran than Pakistan.

Where was Kulbushan Yadav found from, Iran? Where was Uzair Baloch trace from, Iran? Where are BLA fighters coming from, Iran? The Iranian general who was shot through a drone strike openly spoke about teaching "Pakistan a lesson".

Friendship with Iran over the Gulf who are also evil is simply not worth it. Gulf is the lesser evil as they have monetary advantage to us. Iran has the same status as North Korea worldwide, and worth nothing. They are a trouble making country and an absolute nuisance. Their military and airforce is an absolute joke, and they are a totalitarian government who dont give their own public proper internet access. When we decided not to go for Yemen war, what did it give us from Iran? Nothing. They kept supporting BLA, and their proxies in Pakistan. Instead we offended the Gulf, who have now showed a lot of leaning towards India. Then we run back to them whenever we need money?

Pakistani establishment and government have many times tried to establish friendly relations with Iran to no avail. They even keep Iran's military border attacks in Pakistan lowkey as well. Those never get many eyeballs but Iranian border is a huge issue which is why it is being fenced. The recent attack from BLA was traced to the Iranian border as the wires were found across the border.

I personally would have loved to see USA smash Iran to pieces, but welcome China's influence as it would kill India's weak influence in the region.

What you are accusing Iran of doing to Pakistan, Iran accuses Pakistan of doing the same thing to Iran. Most likely both countries have been guilty. I agree that Having good relations with Iran should definitely not be at the expense of the gulf arab countries. However if Pakistan and Iran can go back to the Shah era days of relations, How great would that be 2 of 4 borders completely peaceful.

In Pakistan you start with Pashtun and Baloch who are Iranic groups. Then you have Shia who look towards Iran are like 20% of the population, and a majority in Gilgit Baltistan. And the rest of the population has been influenced by Persian culture from the last 1,000 years starting with the Ghazanavid era. So we definitely need good relations with Iran, if possible.
 
I was trying to find time to reply on Iran's dynamic with Pakistan and finally got some.

Iran has never been Pakistan's friend other than during Shah's time. They have engaged in proxy warfare in Pakistan through supporting BLA, and trying to sabotage projects in Gawadar etc.

They partnered with India in Chahbahar to reduce effectiveness of Gawadar, they have at every front tried to harm the interests of Pakistan.

On a sectarian level, they have raised a whole milita army with the name Zaibbouyun, where many fools from our country join the militia to fight their proxy wars in Syria and Yemen. So, they our countrymen are effectively exporting terrorism, those idiots. They are known to abet and sponsor terrorism and secatrian warfare in Pakistan as well. A certain sect's sub section in Pakistan, has more loyalty to Iran than Pakistan.

Where was Kulbushan Yadav found from, Iran? Where was Uzair Baloch trace from, Iran? Where are BLA fighters coming from, Iran? The Iranian general who was shot through a drone strike openly spoke about teaching "Pakistan a lesson".

Friendship with Iran over the Gulf who are also evil is simply not worth it. Gulf is the lesser evil as they have monetary advantage to us. Iran has the same status as North Korea worldwide, and worth nothing. They are a trouble making country and an absolute nuisance. Their military and airforce is an absolute joke, and they are a totalitarian government who dont give their own public proper internet access. When we decided not to go for Yemen war, what did it give us from Iran? Nothing. They kept supporting BLA, and their proxies in Pakistan. Instead we offended the Gulf, who have now showed a lot of leaning towards India. Then we run back to them whenever we need money?

Pakistani establishment and government have many times tried to establish friendly relations with Iran to no avail. They even keep Iran's military border attacks in Pakistan lowkey as well. Those never get many eyeballs but Iranian border is a huge issue which is why it is being fenced. The recent attack from BLA was traced to the Iranian border as the wires were found across the border.

I personally would have loved to see USA smash Iran to pieces, but welcome China's influence as it would kill India's weak influence in the region.

This line gives away the bias/hatred or whatever you have against Iran.
They are our Muslim brothers with cultural links for centuries, we should learn to live with each other despite our differences.

Iranians believe that we have been acting like US's puppet in the region, fighting its wars in Afghanistan. Now that we are moving closer to China and with India's shift towards US-Israel-Gulf, Iranians animosity towards Pakistan will naturally decrease.

We cannot be friends with Iran but we do not have to be enemies either.
 
I cannot believe I made that post,, Takes full slap on the face, Slog Owned me hands down.... My Opinion on Chabhahar has changed since then I made that delusional post... My concerns have been ever since Iran started showing its bipolar behaviour of voicing support for the Kashmiris out of the blue, which does not bond well for Indian interest...


Kudoss...

This is the problem guys like us who have been here for 10-15 face. We have thousands of posts and if everyone started digging they would find many contradicting posts. People make mistakes, they change their views with more experience and wisdom. Having said that, he completely destroyed you here lol.
 
This line gives away the bias/hatred or whatever you have against Iran.
They are our Muslim brothers with cultural links for centuries, we should learn to live with each other despite our differences.

Iranians believe that we have been acting like US's puppet in the region, fighting its wars in Afghanistan. Now that we are moving closer to China and with India's shift towards US-Israel-Gulf, Iranians animosity towards Pakistan will naturally decrease.

We cannot be friends with Iran but we do not have to be enemies either.

Very good post. If two neighbours can't be best friends, they should at least try to live in peace minding own business only.
 
Vehicles aren’t the only thing which run on crude oil. You’re making it seem like that’s it. Plastics, jet fuel, rubber, prosthetics and a long list are a result of the byproducts of crude.

1. 69% of US oil consumption is for transport, about 1/6th of which is jet fuel. So about 57% is road transport. Plastics etc. are only 25%.

Screen Shot 2020-07-17 at 4.34.42 AM.jpg
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/use-of-oil.php

2. Oil has a relatively inelastic supply schedule. Even a 10% drop in demand can lead to a 50% drop in price unless the oil producing countries come up with agreement to cut production. The cost of production for the Saudis is estimated to be anywhere $2 to $20 per barrel. So it is profitable for them to keep producing oil at least till the point where the price is greater than $20.

The cost of solar is rapidly declining, and to produce solar energy equal to the energy of a barrel of oil is less than $10 and falling. Think you can compete with that 10 years from now? Oil is indeed dying.

And anyways Tesla still forms a minuscule part of the US vehicle market before we even get into the world market. Market cap is one metric and it is driven (especially right now) on sentiment in a bull market. So yes it’s doing well but it’s factually incorrect to suggest that the world or even US vehicles do not run on gasoline by and large or that there has been a huge cultural shift to render conventional cars obsolete anytime soon.

3. Market capitalization is based on the market's estimate of future earnings. If you think Tesla is overvalued, you should (like many others have done before and lost their shirt) short Tesla.

While Tesla is smaller in size than Ford, GM etc., it is growing rapidly, hence its current market cap is $300 billion compared to Ford's $24 billion and GM's $36 billion.

Tesla delivered 90,650 vehicles in the second quarter of this year, a figure that leaves Wall Street estimates in the dust. Industry analysts prepared for a lower delivery total of between 60,000 and 80,000 cars, considering Tesla's signature plant in Fremont, California was shut down for over a month due to the coronavirus pandemic.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-q2-deliveries-production-estimates/
 
Back
Top