What's new

Is Australian domestic cricket really all that great or what it used to be?

Savak

World Star
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Runs
50,024
Post of the Week
3
They have never been able to produce a quality leg spinner after the retirement of Warne and McGill. They certainly have been struggling for quality batsmen in test cricket and if their domestic cricket is really the best in the world, they really shouldn't be struggling this bad just because of the absence of Warner and Smith.

Even with Warner and Smith they have lost every series in the subcontinent, they were whitewashed by a D level Sri Lankan team in Sri Lanka, they have lost twice to a choking Pakistani team in the UAE twice in 2014 & 2018. They have lost the Ashes to England in England twice in 2013 & 2015.

What exactly is so special about this team and this domestic cricket and what excuses do they have given that they have all the money in the world to fix things, no isolation and no absence of international cricket in their home country?

People make fun of the English team but they have atleast won in Sri Lanka and India
 
What everyone considers a decline in domestic talent is really a gap in world-class players emerging.

Warne stayed in an interview for Hampshire back in late 2003 that in five years time, the Australian team will not be as great. Part of the reason lie that the Great Australian Team had fantastic players that came together at the same time by way of sheer luck.

A good team generally has one great player and a great team contains atleast two. That Australian team had atleast four ATG players who peaked at roughly the same time which is why that era is unfairly used as a measuring stick for today’s lackluster performances.

The Australian domestic cricket structure is world class and they will eventually pump out world-class players in a few years time. This is not the first time AUS is going through this phase as it also did it in the mid-80’s when the Chappell brothers, Marsh, and Lillee all retired together.

It took a hard-nosed “Mr. Grumpy” as Captain and a return to basics from Coach Simpson at the NCA to usher in a golden age once again.

So the short answer is yes but it will take time to simmer. Until then, enjoy the Aussie humiliation because they will be back to haunt us for years to come.
 
Last edited:
What everyone considers a decline in domestic talent is really a gap in world-class players emerging.

Warne stayed in an interview for Hampshire back in late 2003 that in five years time, the Australian team will not be as great. Part of the reason lie that the Great Australian Team had fantastic players that came together at the same time by way of sheer luck.

A good team generally has one great player and a great team contains atleast two. That Australian team had atleast four ATG players who peaked at roughly the same time which is why that era is unfairly used as a measuring stick for today’s lackluster performances.

The Australian domestic cricket structure is world class and they will eventually pump out world-class players in a few years time. This is not the first time AUS is going through this phase as it also did it in the mid-80’s when the Chappell brothers, Marsh, and Lillee all retired together.

It took a hard-nosed “Mr. Grumpy” as Captain and a return to basics from Coach Simpson at the NCA to usher in a golden age once again.

So the short answer is yes but it will take time to simmer. Until then, enjoy the Aussie humiliation because they will be back to haunt us for years to come.

So the answer is that even a robust system cannot make up for a lack of quality talent?

Because a good system would ensure that players getting selected for international cricket are more or less ready, but that is not proving to be the case with Australia is it.

A lot of Australia's ex legends are blaming the big bash and global T20 league for the fact that Australia is no longer producing the rugged battle hardened cricketers they did in the past and a major reason to blame is because cricketers today prefer to make a career out of the shorter formats now.

But it begs the question for Pakistan whether having a solid domestic structure will be enough for it to make up a lack of cricketing quality talent wise?
 
Sheffield Shield cricket has declined as far as batting standards are concerned. It's glaring to see how many Australian batsmen look all at sea against swing and spin.

Australia need to reward young domestic batsmen who can grind out an innings in difficult conditions. It's easy finding batsmen who belt the old Kookaburra to all parts on those flat home pitches. But the senior team is crying out for a batsman in the mould of an Allan Border or Steve Waugh who excelled at in being able to gut out a tough innings in adverse conditions.
 
So the answer is that even a robust system cannot make up for a lack of quality talent?

Because a good system would ensure that players getting selected for international cricket are more or less ready, but that is not proving to be the case with Australia is it.

A lot of Australia's ex legends are blaming the big bash and global T20 league for the fact that Australia is no longer producing the rugged battle hardened cricketers they did in the past and a major reason to blame is because cricketers today prefer to make a career out of the shorter formats now.

But it begs the question for Pakistan whether having a solid domestic structure will be enough for it to make up a lack of cricketing quality talent wise?

Pakistan competes in international cricket despite there being a proper setup for years.

A well structured domestic system would ensure they remain a top aide for years to come. They are the most naturally talented nation with only the West Indies ahead of them.
 
There was a great discussion a couple of days ago between Slater, Ponting and Brayshaw regarding the lack of batsmen coming up through the first-class system:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="fr"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A long form discussion on Australia's batting.<br><br>Where it was, where it is, and all the reasons for it.<br><br>A <a href="https://twitter.com/mj_slats?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@mj_slats</a>, Ricky Ponting, <a href="https://twitter.com/copes9?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@copes9</a> & JB discussion <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvIND</a> <a href="https://t.co/3eRBjSH94M">pic.twitter.com/3eRBjSH94M</a></p>— 7 Cricket (@7Cricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/7Cricket/status/1070902723246141440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">7 décembre 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Essentially, the problem is a mixture of a lack of talent, lopsided first-class schedules, and sub-standard coaching at junior level. It's not just an Australian problem either, you see it in England and South Africa too.

Technique is developed during your formative years (13-18) during schools and age-level cricket. You can only make fine adjustments later, so if batsmen are being taught to slog the ball at a young age, ceteris paribus, defensive technique will be compromised through a lack of practice (i.e. if they are taught the value of a good forward defensive in the first place). Batsmen are being taught to fly before they can walk, and that's down to mediocre coaching at grass-roots level.

Once they make the step-up to first-class cricket, the devaluation of standards take another toll on development as the best players would either be playing international cricket or franchise cricket. Whereas, two decades ago all the best players would be playing first-class cricket if there was no international cricket taking place. Now of course, I am not one of the old fogies who think things were better in our day, that system was not ideal either, especially for fast bowlers who would more often than not be worked to the ground on the first-class circuit. That's why central contracts were introduced in England.

Nonetheless, the art of test match batting will continue to deteriorate and I don't really see any solution given the chasm between the rewards of playing T20 and 4-day cricket. It's just harsh economics. The tide can only be stemmed if administrators invest in grass-roots coaching and stop devaluing 4-day cricket and harmonize schedules by arranging first-class competitions in one single block (during months with good weather) and instruct groundsmen to produce good batting wickets.
 
Cricket Australia's head of cricket operations and scheduling, Peter Roach, concedes Greg Chappell's sweeping vision of a revamped domestic structure has merit, but maintains the current system remains among the world's best.

Chappell last week outlined to cricket.com.au a series of major changes, including a more concentrated block of the Sheffield Shield competition and an increased volume of 'A' games, he deemed necessary for Australia to ensure it stays apace with global rivals India and England.

At the crux of Chappell's critique was that Australia's cricket season would be vastly different if it were being designed from scratch today, particularly with the the prime December-January window once occupied by the Shield now firmly the domain of the KFC BBL.

Roach points out that changes to the men's domestic one-day tournament, including the addition and subsequent removal of the Cricket Australia XI, as well as tweaks to the Sheffield Shield final rules have shown the governing body's willingness to adapt in recent years.

While the CA XI experiment was short-lived, the changes designed to enliven the Shield final have been generally well-received.

Roach pointed out logistical challenges to some of the suggestions made by Chappell, who retired from his post as CA's national talent manager in 2019, but he admitted changes would be considered.

"Like anyone, I enjoy thinking about whether there's a better way to be doing what we're doing," Roach, who has overseen the jam-packed Australian men's and women's 2021-22 international schedule announced this week, told cricket.com.au.

"I think we'd be naïve to think our structure today, which is roughly the same as it was 10 years ago … is going to be right forever. Is it right today? There's lots of different opinions.

"What we do know is these things are spoken about often amongst the fraternity, of which Greg was an active part of until recently, and we'll continue to chat about them.

"What we do know is that there are a lot of countries that would give their left arm to have our male domestic structure – to have only six teams, to play 10 hard Shield games (per team each season) plus a final.

"England's system has from time to time been criticised for too many counties and playing too much, but maybe at the moment that system is working more effectively than ours and we need to take a look at that and see if there are things we can learn."

Chappell called for an increased frequency of games to be played by Australia A sides, envisioning an annual schedule of games to be played after the BBL either at home or abroad.

While pointing out strong 'A' sides have turned out in tour games against Pakistan and India over the past two seasons, Roach said it was difficult to find windows to schedule whole 'A' series, and it's a further challenge to find one without pulling out the best domestic players from existing competitions.

"Everyone sees the merit in a strong and vibrant 'A' series program that works in conjunction with a strong domestic program," he said. "Sometimes a reason for playing a lot of 'A' series is because you don't believe your domestic products are strong enough.

"I'm not casting aspersions on other countries that do or don't play A series – but we think our Shield cricket is as good as anywhere in the world, and 'A' series are best used to complement those."

Chappell's solution is for the Sheffield Shield to start earlier and finish before the BBL begins, but Roach says that could have a knock-on effect on the benefits of playing cricket abroad.

"We need to balance our own thinking with the opportunities that are created overseas for players. We've got the IPL and we've got the Hundred among others, we've got county cricket, which has forever and a day proved a great learning tool for Australian cricketers," he said.

"So if we started to move our season, it does come with ramifications in terms of what we can allow our players to go and experience, and it also shortens pre-seasons which are times when players can actively engage in improvements to their game, so there are some things to weigh up.

"At the moment we've got Marnus Labuschagne, Travis Head and Marcus Harris, three of our top batsmen, playing county cricket. If you extend the Shield season, do they still get that opportunity?

"They're some of the things we just need to work through. It looks good with the blinkers on, but does it actually work with some of the other opportunities?

"We would also be lessoning the number of opportunities our players would get to play on our Test match venues (which aren't available in the football seasons). Do the benefits of moving the domestic season outweigh those?"

Roach admitted there were "valid questions" over the distribution of men's talent around the country, with Chappell suggesting less populated states could benefit from an Australian Football League-style draft system.

But Roach pointed to South Australia's renewed focus on interstate recruits, as recommended by a recent review into their high-performance program, as evidence there is a greater willingness than ever for players move for opportunities.

"We've seen that around the country for many years, not just the smaller states, there's been some movement in those bigger states as well," he said.

"So is player movement happening? Yes. Can it happen better? Potentially. Is it likely to happen more in the future? You would think so.

"Look at player markets around the world – players are moving more than they did 20 years ago. Is it moving as quickly as people thought? Maybe not.

"If I was looking to the future, I would think even with the current rules which as they stand do allow for pretty easy movement, there'd continue to be more movement rather than less."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/pet...ia-england-sheffield-shield-season/2021-05-21
 
Back
Top