Is Ben Stokes the most overrated cricketer currently? Deep dive into his stats

[Sub-Zero]

Yes, both Anwar Ali and Sohail are better all-rounders than Stokes. He is easily the worst all-rounder of this era, a shame that he is playing Test cricket for England and is also their vice-captain.

England with they had Anwar Ali or Sohail Khan, they would have honoured them with the Order of the British Empire by now, and would be known as Sir Anwar Ali and Sir Sohail Khan.

Meanwhile, if Stokes was in Pakistan, he would not even make the 15 man squad given how blessed we are when it comes to all-rounders.

indeed, the performance of Yamin impressed everyone yesterday, and Shadab and Hassaan are most likely to get selected soon

 

[Hasan123]

I will explain the context of my statement to avoid misinterpretation. I believe you are referring to a thread few months back which posed the question that why Donald is underrated compared to some of the other legendary bowlers.

There is no doubt that Donald is one of the greatest bowlers ever. I'd say he is better than Steyn, but it is natural for him to be underrated by many people because he holds the distinction of pulling off the biggest individual choke in cricketing history. Well at least in the era of video footage.

The fact that he was not able to win SA a World Cup and in fact, prevented them from making it to the final is a major reason why he is less popular and influential than bowlers like Wasim and McGrath. Wasim's stock as a cricketer would no doubt have been lower had he not produced a match-winning performance in the 1992 World Cup final. In fact, the consecutive deliveries to Lamb and Lewis are the two most famous deliveries he has ever bowled.

Similarly, Imran Khan is one of the greatest Test all-rounders of all time and he was already a legend before the 1992 World Cup, but today, the World Cup win is considered to be his biggest achievement, especially among the casual fans and they are the ones who make up the majority and determine if a certain player is underrated or overrated. Ask any random fan in Pakistan and he won't even know that Imran pushed the ATG WI team in Test cricket like no other captain, and that is because World Cups are much more iconic and are etched in our memories forever.

Stokes no doubt choked in the WT20 final last year and prevented England from becoming the first team to win two WT20s, and if he does not perform for England in World Cups in the future, it will be a big stain on his career and will dent his popularity. On the other hand, if he playing a starring role for England and wins them a World Cup, it can prove to be the difference between him ending up as a great player or a legend.

Same goes for the likes of Root, Buttler etc. who can etch their names in history by helping England win the World Cup in 2 years time on home soil.

As far as the comparison with Botham is concerned, I believe he has the potential. He is one of the most talented players I've seen in a long time. Yes he is mediocre with the ball at the moment, but he has considerable ability. He is faster than Botham ever was, and he looks dangerous when he reverses the ball. Botham however, swung the ball a lot in his peak but Stokes is more of a hit-the-deck type bowler. Obviously in terms of performance, he has long, long way to go, but yes I do think he has the ability to overtake Botham.

Ok thanks for the response. My opinion is Donald is an atg no doubt, I don't think he should be remembered for one choke especially when you look at his world cup record and it isn't actually bad.

Agree I'll take Donald over Steyn also.

 

[Mamoon]

indeed, the performance of Yamin impressed everyone yesterday, and Shadab and Hassaan are most likely to get selected soon

Yeah, all of them are better than Stokes who will fetch 20 crore rupees if they are available to play in the IPL.

 

[Mamoon]

Stokes can lose the game with both bat and ball unlike Rabada.

Specialists >>> bits and pieces cricketers

Stokes is an all-rounder and a top quality one, if you want examples of bits and pieces, there are plenty of them elsewhere.

Bits and pieces players don't score double-hundreds in SA and hundreds in Australia and India. Has to improve as a bowler no doubt.

In general, it is debatable if he is more valuable than Rabada, but when it comes to T20 league cricket, he is because players with all-round skills are worth more. Rabada might blow one or two teams away once in a while in 4 overs, but Stokes will have more opportunity to change the game considering his involvement in all three facets.

 

[Usman]

Listen to him on interview and he doesn't come across as what you'd consider an arrogant cricketer.

Actions speak louder than words. The way he behaves on the pitch, the way he loses his temper within minutes of things not going his way, the way he abuses opposition players- not sledging but actual verbal abuse - its all the signs of someone with a lot of arrogance who has never actually grown up.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I was wondering. Why the hypocrisy when it comes to English players? Stokes has proven to be a massive choker. You will say that the sample size is too small but the way he choked in the World T20 final was unbelievable. People talk about it as if brathwaite pulled off a miracle but stokes offered him 4 pies on a length that most West Indians will dispatch on that surface. The reason why stokes kept bowling that rubbish after the first 3 balls was because he simply choked. After the first six he lost it and muscle memory forced him to bowl there since he didn't have the balls to do anything but follow it. Stokes is a good all rounder yes but his bowling is LOIs is pretty ordinary and will always be remembered for losing his team a World Cup. Also you bash South Africa for being chokers which they are but England are almost as bad. You have a soft spot for the English team which is why you will never be able to see it. Perhaps England's chokes in the 2017 champions trophy and 2019 World Cup will be proof enough since you and me both can agree that on paper they are one of the favourites especially because of that batting lineup.

 

[Hawkeye]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I was wondering. Why the hypocrisy when it comes to English players? Stokes has proven to be a massive choker. You will say that the sample size is too small but the way he choked in the World T20 final was unbelievable. People talk about it as if brathwaite pulled off a miracle but stokes offered him 4 pies on a length that most West Indians will dispatch on that surface. The reason why stokes kept bowling that rubbish after the first 3 balls was because he simply choked. After the first six he lost it and muscle memory forced him to bowl there since he didn't have the balls to do anything but follow it. Stokes is a good all rounder yes but his bowling is LOIs is pretty ordinary and will always be remembered for losing his team a World Cup. Also you bash South Africa for being chokers which they are but England are almost as bad. You have a soft spot for the English team which is why you will never be able to see it. Perhaps England's chokes in the 2017 champions trophy and 2019 World Cup will be proof enough since you and me both can agree that on paper they are one of the favourites especially because of that batting lineup.

He's a big time choker, and mostly a non-performer, had really poor performances recently too.

But, he's from England, so gets a lot of media hype as a good "allrounder". And Eng are a favorite team of some here too.

 

[Bilal7]

Stokes is the biggest choker in the English team. One of the biggest chokers in the world as well.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I was wondering. Why the hypocrisy when it comes to English players? Stokes has proven to be a massive choker. You will say that the sample size is too small but the way he choked in the World T20 final was unbelievable. People talk about it as if brathwaite pulled off a miracle but stokes offered him 4 pies on a length that most West Indians will dispatch on that surface. The reason why stokes kept bowling that rubbish after the first 3 balls was because he simply choked. After the first six he lost it and muscle memory forced him to bowl there since he didn't have the balls to do anything but follow it. Stokes is a good all rounder yes but his bowling is LOIs is pretty ordinary and will always be remembered for losing his team a World Cup. Also you bash South Africa for being chokers which they are but England are almost as bad. You have a soft spot for the English team which is why you will never be able to see it. Perhaps England's chokes in the 2017 champions trophy and 2019 World Cup will be proof enough since you and me both can agree that on paper they are one of the favourites especially because of that batting lineup.

England will certainly go into the Champions Trophy this year and the World Cup in two years time as one of the favorites. If they choke, then surely they will deserve to be called Chokers like SA. England have never won a World Cup a Champions Trophy, but if you are not one of the favorites, then you cannot be classified as a choker. Obviously since both are in England, there is added pressure on them, but they will have to deal with it.

Yes they did win the World T20 in 2010 but that was an upset, there were not amongst the favorites. The only two times they have gone into a tournament as as one of the favorites was in 1992 and in 2016, and they made the final both times.

As far as Stokes is concerned, no doubt he choked, but he will have more opportunities to set the record straight. If he fails in the Champions this year and the World Cup in two years time, I will consider him a choker. Just because he is one of my favorite players won't stop me from calling him a choker, unlike Amla fans, who refuse to accept that he is the biggest choker in the world in LOIs.

So no there are no double-standards. England isn't a serial choker like SA and Stokes isn't a serial choker yet like some of their players e.g. Amla, who is a legendary choker. I didn't consider Amla a choker either until he started choking in multiple ICC tournaments.

 

[The_Odd_One]

England has been the biggest choker in the history of Cricket, even bigger than SA.

They have lost 3 world cup finals, 1 ICC CT final, and 1 WT20 final. That's 5 final losses. No other team has choked that bad. In most of the finals, they were favorites.

They should thank KP that he won them a WT20.

 

[Mamoon]

103* by the English Anwar Ali, when the next highest score was 27. What a waste of money.

 

[big_gamer007]

Today's innings was brutal, if he continues to perform well throughout the rest of the tournament it's money well spent by Pune..

 

[Citizen4]

literally his first match winning performance in 10 odd matches, what a value for money playing IPL feasting on trundlers on a flat pitch and suddenly he is a world class player

 

[dildildalwalla]

You don't need stats to know Stokes is being vastly overrated. I've seen almost the entirety of his career and his bowling is too easy to get a hold of with little or no swing or seam. He seems like an average county trundler.

His batting however, can be brutal, although he is living off that back of that stunning double some 2 years ago. However, with the way England are set up as a test side and the important of big hitters in the ODI side, he is a decent pick.

 

[troodon]

literally his first match winning performance in 10 odd matches, what a value for money playing IPL feasting on trundlers on a flat pitch and suddenly he is a world class player

He bats way too down the order to have big impact in most matches.

If you think he is overrated, then I don't know what to say. He is a brutal All rounder.

 

[Haz95]

103* by the English Anwar Ali, when the next highest score was 27. What a waste of money.

The scores before this are 17,10,2,25,2, 50. This is in pyjama IPL cricket which no one outside of India watches. If you ask me, he's the English Afridi. Performs either with the bat or ball enough with some good performances here and there.

Having said that, he's a quality Test Allrounder and is by far the best pace bowling allrounder in the world....I'm just having a look at both sides of the coin. Ben, I think views the IPL as some time pass to make some quick skrilla.

 

[HitWicket]

literally his first match winning performance in 10 odd matches, what a value for money

That's his 3rd man of the match award in his last 4 games (out of 8)...

 

[Chrish]

hope 20 years from now on, kids won't try to justify Stoke's greatness because he smashed Jadeja in IPL on indian turner.

 

[Napa]

This is in pyjama IPL cricket which no one outside of India watches.

Yet players playing it get 10 times as much money as they would get elsewhere, and in 5 years the money they get will at least double.

 

[idrizzy]

He's a better batsman than bowler. Todays innings was a great one. Showed his power and aggression. Can't really compare him to a Pakistani player since no one in our team is capable of hitting in that way. Still, I don't rate him as a WC AR since it takes more with the ball to be ome. If he had Flintoffs bowling then 100% a WC AR.

 

[Haz95]

Ben, I think views the IPL as some time pass to make some quick skrilla.

Yet players playing it get 10 times as much money as they would get elsewhere, and in 5 years the money they get will at least double.

You should actually read what I have got to say rather than immediately getting triggered at anything not in favour of IPL. I'm assuming you do not know what 'skrilla' means. In slang terms, 'a medium of exchange'...aka Money.

Cricketers are very similar to todays Rappers. If you look at the American rappers, no one rates old school hip hop, now it's simply trap music. To make a song which draws quick money, all it needs to have is a Trap beat while talking about money and women. This is what rappers do while in their other album songs (which they know not much other people would listen to) they put out meaningful, lyrical music for the purists. It's the same with IPL compared to Tests/ Country. While Cricketers make quick money by playing ing pyjama leagues, they know to be really rated, one must excel in international formats, namely tests.

 

[Napa]

You should actually read what I have got to say rather than immediately getting triggered at anything not in favour of IPL. I'm assuming you do not know what 'skrilla' means. In slang terms, 'a medium of exchange'...aka Money.

Cricketers are very similar to todays Rappers. If you look at the American rappers, no one rates old school hip hop, now it's simply trap music. To make a song which draws quick money, all it needs to have is a Trap beat while talking about money and women. This is what rappers do while in their other album songs (which they know not much other people would listen to) they put out meaningful, lyrical music for the purists. It's the same with IPL compared to Tests/ Country. While Cricketers make quick money by playing ing pyjama leagues, they know to be really rated, one must excel in international formats, namely tests.

If your quote of yourself, you left out the bit that I actually quoted, to wit "This is in pyjama IPL cricket which no one outside of India watches". The point about my post that you entirely missed is that it doesn't matter who doesn't watch, as long as the game is making humongous amounts of money.

 

[Haz95]

If your quote of yourself, you left out the bit that I actually quoted, to wit "This is in pyjama IPL cricket which no one outside of India watches". The point about my post that you entirely missed is that it doesn't matter who doesn't watch, as long as the game is making humongous amounts of money.

Ok I see. But it doesn't really have much relevance to what I orginally said. I meant IPL is lower quality cricket whereby the performances of Ben Stokes don't really matter (to him). He's simply using it as a means of extra money, which there no doubt is of abudance.

 

[shaz619]

Ok I see. But it doesn't really have much relevance to what I orginally said. I meant IPL is lower quality cricket whereby the performances of Ben Stokes don't really matter (to him). He's simply using it as a means of extra money, which there no doubt is of abudance.

It's pocket money for Ben, he makes millions year round playing for England as it is and being from a country where the purest format is valued it's what matters more then anything and only way to gain credibility by performing well at that level

 

[Napa]

It's pocket money for Ben, he makes millions year round playing for England as it is and being from a country where the purest format is valued it's what matters more then anything and only way to gain credibility by performing well at that level

Moving on from what Shaz says that Ben feels, let us actually listen to what Ben says about what Ben feels:

"It's a life changing amount of money, I can't really say more than that. I'm really thankful and grateful for how it went this morning. I'm struggling to put it into words."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2017/content/story/1083536.html

 

[shaz619]

Moving on from what Shaz says that Ben feels, let us actually listen to what Ben says about what Ben feels:

"It's a life changing amount of money, I can't really say more than that. I'm really thankful and grateful for how it went this morning. I'm struggling to put it into words."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2017/content/story/1083536.html

Ah Ben the diplomat!

 

[Napa]

Ah Ben the diplomat!

It must be true that people are lying whenever they say something that doesn't mesh with Shaz's view of the world.

 

[aniket1911]

Coming in at 10/3 need some serious clutch player to gun down the chase. With all of the world watching, against best T20 bowler in the world, amidst all the great innings, this has to be one of the top 5 innings in IPL history.

 

[Hawkeye]

103* by the English Anwar Ali, when the next highest score was 27. What a waste of money.

Anwar Ali won us that match single-handedly where Rameez went crazy. ATG legendary knock it was.

Nothing different Stokes did. Kept failing constantly, one good match after ages.

I know of NO smart investor who will throw away 1 million USD for such a player who can show up in 1 out of 10 matches.

 

[Mobashir]

He is in the top 2 players of the world at the moment with Steven Smith.

 

[Rotoman]

Guy had a shoulder injury, came back after just a few games. Was hampered by cramps after half way through the innings, and still soldiered on to hit a matchwinning century while in apparent pain, but don't let the fact get in the way of a good story. Do tell us more of how he doesn't care.

 

[JaDed]

He is getting better and better,one of those players that improves with time playing in certain locations,two matches he has closed this season one with biwlih and another batting.

 

[shaz619]

It must be true that people are telling the truth whenever they say something that mesh's with my own view of the world.

Very True!

 

[Hasan123]

I don't think he is ovverated. Maybe lacks consistency but I'm sure that will come . In terms of impact I don't think there is an all rounder on the planet who can match his impact.

Not a fan of Stokes as a person but as a player it's hard to deny his quality.

 

[shaz619]

I don't think he is ovverated. Maybe lacks consistency but I'm sure that will come . In terms of impact I don't think there is an all rounder on the planet who can match his impact.

Not a fan of Stokes as a person but as a player it's hard to deny his quality.

Shakib Al Hasan is underrated in that regard never mind his consistency but he can turn a game on its head with bat or ball, it has been challenging playing for a team where others have not been at the world level but he has lead from the front [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=142481]Nil Dhumrojal[/MENTION] but falls under the radar as he doesn't play for a team called AUS, ENG, IND or PAK etc

Stokes is 2nd best, nothing wrong with being a solid B+ player and no denying his impact quality, he is undroppable from all formats across all conditions and would walk into any line up in the world. Has the potential to surpass Flintoff by the time his career is done.

 

[Hasan123]

Shakib Al Hasan is underrated in that regard never mind his consistency but he can turn a game on its head with bat or ball, it has been challenging playing for a team where others have not been at the world level but he has lead from the front [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=142481]Nil Dhumrojal[/MENTION] but falls under the radar as he doesn't play for a team called AUS, ENG, IND or PAK etc

Stokes is 2nd best, nothing wrong with being a solid B+ player and no denying his impact quality, he is undroppable from all formats across all conditions and would walk into any line up in the world. Has the potential to surpass Flintoff by the time his career is done.

Sakhib is underated no doubt and has good number but I'll take Stokes. If Stokes comes off with bat or ball his team is almost certain to win

 

[Mamoon]

Anwar Ali won us that match single-handedly where Rameez went crazy. ATG legendary knock it was.

Nothing different Stokes did. Kept failing constantly, one good match after ages.

I know of NO smart investor who will throw away 1 million USD for such a player who can show up in 1 out of 10 matches.

Yes I have said already. He is no better than Sir Anwar Ali KNH, OBE, and England is very unlucky that he doesn't play for them. The fact that Stokes is a key player for them while the former cannot get into any Pakistan squad in any format shows how superior we are to England in all formats.

 

[Executioner]

Sakhib is underated no doubt and has good number but I'll take Stokes. If Stokes comes off with bat or ball his team is almost certain to win

Shakib is a better bowler. Has won many matches with ball alone.

Stokes Is more talented with bat but inconsistent

 

[Abdullah]

The guy is only 25. By the time he is gonna be 27 it's gonna be a scary prospect!!

 

[shaz619]

Sakhib is underated no doubt and has good number but I'll take Stokes. If Stokes comes off with bat or ball his team is almost certain to win

Shakib is a better bowler. Has won many matches with ball alone.

Stokes Is more talented with bat but inconsistent

Stokes is world class no doubt but has also been protected in a superior Test line up which is why Shakib's impact ability is not emphasised as much while he finds himself under a lot more pressure being the most vital member of the BD for many years.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Stokes has won 3 Man-of-the-Match awards out of the 6 games Pune has won this season, the most MOTM for any player in this IPL. People criticise his bowling but it's that aspect that has been more impressive than his batting. He has been pretty reliable at the death.

 

[Executioner]

Stokes is world class no doubt but has also been protected in a superior Test line up which is why Shakib's impact ability is not emphasised as much while he finds himself under a lot more pressure being the most vital member of the BD for many years.

That's true.

If Shakib had a better team he would have much more match winning performances and better stats to boot. Infact in our recent wins in tests Shakib played a vital role.

Against Lanka he scored 130 odd and took 6 wickets. He has always been this good but because of our improvement these performances are being highlighted.

He doesn't need validation from fans or experts. The stats are up there on Cricinfo to judge as well as the rankings.

All that for a player who debuted at 18 and never dropped from the team

 

[shaz619]

That's true.

If Shakib had a better team he would have much more match winning performances and better stats to boot. Infact in our recent wins in tests Shakib played a vital role.

Against Lanka he scored 130 odd and took 6 wickets. He has always been this good but because of our improvement these performances are being highlighted.

He doesn't need validation from fans or experts. The stats are up there on Cricinfo to judge as well as the rankings.

All that for a player who debuted at 18 and never dropped from the team

For me Shakib is borderline an ATG all rounder and the greatest pure spin (others such as greig and sobers bowled medium pace as well) bowling all rounder in history.

 

[Executioner]

For me Shakib is borderline an ATG all rounder and the greatest pure spin (others such as greig and sobers bowled medium pace as well) bowling all rounder in history.

Not sure if you can call him an ATG but definitely one of the greats of the game.

 

[shaz619]

Not sure if you can call him an ATG but definitely one of the greats of the game.

Trust me he is an ATG and I say that even as someone who lives in England where we overrate guys after a couple of great seasons but someone like Shakib has earned his stripes over many years and we'd not question his status if he played in a better team which is why his numbers mustn't be looked upon without context. Besides Kallis, Shakib is the only other guy who has truly dominated over a long period when it comes to being an A/R during the era they've played in so why can't he be deemed an all time great? how many others have kept up with the likes of Kallis and Shakib? both are underated in their own way

 

[Executioner]

Trust me he is an ATG and I say that even as someone who lives in England where we overrate guys after a couple of great seasons but someone like Shakib has earned his stripes over many years and we'd not question his status if he played in a better team which is why his numbers mustn't be looked upon without context. Besides Kallis, Shakib is the only other guy who has truly dominated over a long period when it comes to being an A/R during the era they've played in so why can't he be deemed an all time great? how many others have kept up with the likes of Kallis and Shakib? both are underated in their own way

I am sure Shak will be an ATG at the end of his career but probably in the last 10-15 years Shakib and Kallis truly outperformed every one as an all-rounder.

To Shakib's credit he was always consistent. Never had an off-season. Even when he failed with bat he delivered with ball or vice Versa.

 

[SL_Fan]

His batting has certainly gone up a few notches in all forms last year or so. Turning up to be a quality batting all-rounder.

 

[MMHS]

Shakib Al Hasan is underrated in that regard never mind his consistency but he can turn a game on its head with bat or ball, it has been challenging playing for a team where others have not been at the world level but he has lead from the front [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=142481]Nil Dhumrojal[/MENTION] but falls under the radar as he doesn't play for a team called AUS, ENG, IND or PAK etc

Stokes is 2nd best, nothing wrong with being a solid B+ player and no denying his impact quality, he is undroppable from all formats across all conditions and would walk into any line up in the world. Has the potential to surpass Flintoff by the time his career is done.

No comments - let him play few more years.

I am comfortable with English media hype, which once put Chris Lewis along with Kapil & David Cappel as Botham's replacement. In between there had been many - from Ronie Irani, Mark Elham to Dougie Brown - more or less, someone batting at 6/7 with a bit of bowling skills starts with the ceiling of Imran, Botham, Kapil - one of them ended as Flintoff, rest are between Crag White to Alex Tudor.

Comparison with Sakib is a bit unnecessary - one spinner & other one medium pacer. Excluding ZIMBoks, Sakib has 12 5fors against ENG, IND, SAF, PAK, WI, NZ & SRL in 43 Tests - I'll give 143 Tests to Stokes to reach that figure. Excluding ZIMboks, Sakib's career against other 7 teams (haven't played against Aussies yet) stands at : 43 Tests, 3000+ runs at 41+ & 150 wickets @ <35

Impact, match winning contribution .... etc. are intellectual hypocrisy - I can prove that Roger Harper, Brett Lee & Justin Langer were better players than Ian Botham, Richard Hadlee & Sachin Tendulkar, because they had more % win, whenever they played.

 

[shaz619]

No comments - let him play few more years.

I am comfortable with English media hype, which once put Chris Lewis along with Kapil & David Cappel as Botham's replacement. In between there had been many - from Ronie Irani, Mark Elham to Dougie Brown - more or less, someone batting at 6/7 with a bit of bowling skills starts with the ceiling of Imran, Botham, Kapil - one of them ended as Flintoff, rest are between Crag White to Alex Tudor.

Comparison with Sakib is a bit unnecessary - one spinner & other one medium pacer. Excluding ZIMBoks, Sakib has 12 5fors against ENG, IND, SAF, PAK, WI, NZ & SRL in 43 Tests - I'll give 143 Tests to Stokes to reach that figure. Excluding ZIMboks, Sakib's career against other 7 teams (haven't played against Aussies yet) stands at : 43 Tests, 3000+ runs at 41+ & 150 wickets @ <35

Impact, match winning contribution .... etc. are intellectual hypocrisy - I can prove that Roger Harper, Brett Lee & Justin Langer were better players than Ian Botham, Richard Hadlee & Sachin Tendulkar, because they had more % win, whenever they played.

No few more years needed for me, he's already an all time great which deserves respect

 

[MMHS]

No few more years needed for me, he's already an all time great which deserves respect

Volume does matter - if Sakib can double his figures for 100 Tests - that's 7000+ runs at 40+ & 350+ wickets at <35, he'll indeed reach there. He is just about 31 years (Officially 30) now, therefore at least best 5 years of his is coming as a spin bowling all-rounder, if he remains healthy.

Problem for Stokes is that, most fast bowling all-rounders start as a better bowler & by the time they reach late 20s, start to put numbers with bat - by that time they are actually proven world class bowlers. Stokes is around 26-27 now & at most an average bowler - he should improve his batting, but don't think he is going to make ENG team ever on bowling merit only.

 

[Hawkeye]

Volume does matter - if Sakib can double his figures for 100 Tests - that's 7000+ runs at 40+ & 350+ wickets at <35, he'll indeed reach there. He is just about 31 years (Officially 30) now, therefore at least best 5 years of his is coming as a spin bowling all-rounder, if he remains healthy.

Problem for Stokes is that, most fast bowling all-rounders start as a better bowler & by the time they reach late 20s, start to put numbers with bat - by that time they are actually proven world class bowlers. Stokes is around 26-27 now & at most an average bowler - he should improve his batting, but don't think he is going to make ENG team ever on bowling merit only.

Basically a rich man's Anwar Ali. 2

 

[HinderTheJinder]

Stokes is the only player to justify his price tag in IPL in his first season

 

[The_Odd_One]

So, the standard to judge a play is IPL now?

Regardless of this 100, the choker is going to choke in a knockout game.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Stokes is surely overrated. I wouldn't go as far as bits and pieces but he's no great of the game. A poor man's Botham.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Shakib Al Hasan is underrated in that regard never mind his consistency but he can turn a game on its head with bat or ball, it has been challenging playing for a team where others have not been at the world level but he has lead from the front [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=142481]Nil Dhumrojal[/MENTION] but falls under the radar as he doesn't play for a team called AUS, ENG, IND or PAK etc

Stokes is 2nd best, nothing wrong with being a solid B+ player and no denying his impact quality, he is undroppable from all formats across all conditions and would walk into any line up in the world. Has the potential to surpass Flintoff by the time his career is done.

Good observations. The drawbacks of shakib is that he plays very little in aus,eng,sa,ind to prove his worth as undoubtedly number one all rounder .though he showed what he can do with the little chances he got. If he had got many chances to play there may be no one would have doubts about him of being the best. Now i can't argue with anyone if he don't count him as best.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

For me Shakib is borderline an ATG all rounder and the greatest pure spin (others such as greig and sobers bowled medium pace as well) bowling all rounder in history.

Not sure now but may be he can go there . The problem is others ATG could play a lot of matches,at least 150 tests and so one to reach there but shakib has played very little compared to them. We can say whether shakib can go the ATG league or not after another 5 years may be. At best now we can say he is one of best of his era.

 

[Bilal7]

Good player, Stokes. Still haven't forgotten his epic choke-job, however. Calling him the English Anwar Ali is absolute rubbish, Anwar doesn't touch him with the bat in hand and his bowling is arguably inferior.

On the other hand, calling him one of the two best players in the world is rubbish as well. He's not even the second best player in his own team and arguably not even the second best all-rounder in the world.

 

[shaz619]

Good player, Stokes. Still haven't forgotten his epic choke-job, however. Calling him the English Anwar Ali is absolute rubbish, Anwar doesn't touch him with the bat in hand and his bowling is arguably inferior.

On the other hand, calling him one of the two best players in the world is rubbish as well. He's not even the second best player in his own team and arguably not even the second best all-rounder in the world.

Shakib and Moeen are better A/R's then Stokes who's about a level below those guys

 

[idrizzy]

He seems to have improved his bowling with each game he plays. Just got Cummins out with a cracking yorker. Finished with 31/2. Seems like his deathover woes has improved from that T20 final.

Consistency is an issue though - only three 30+ scores in the last 10 games and he comes in at 4/5, which isn't too low.

I think he makes at least a (small) impact in every match he'll play in the CT with bat or ball. Whether it means a quickfire 30, or a wicket.

 

[jazba]

That catch has to be the greatest catch I've ever seen.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

I wish we had a firestarter like Stokes, Stokes is better than Flintoff

 

[Xoib]

Ben Stokes is ordinary

Gets way too much hype for a guy with very average stats.33 with the bat and 35 with the ball these are very mediocre numbers.Flintoff and Botham at this age were playing best cricket of their careets while tbis guy is stinking the joint in this series, how long he can be carried based on potential?

 

[Boi]

The most overrated player in world cricket currently.

 

[mak36]

Woakes (ball) and Moeen (bat) contribute more to the team in my view, yet receive considerably less attention.

To be fair to Stokes though, something he brings to the table which very few do is his presence in the field- he is an impressive fielder and adds fight/aggression on the field.

 

[James]

Interestingly those are similar to Flintoff's career stats.

 

[Leo23]

no he is not. along with root bairstow and moeen he is the only world class english player

 

[Xoib]

Interestingly those are similar to Flintoff's career stats.

Flintoff 2002 onwards was world class he started slow hence his stats suffer.Flintoff for two-thirds career could get in to English side just as a bowler.Stokes currently is not good enough in either skill to make the side alone as a batsman or bowler

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Strikes me as an average cricketer but capable of performing great things on occasion (250 vs SA etc)

 

[marlonbrowndo]

What are you talking about? He's good at cursing and staring at the batsman. Even when his pies are going to the boundary

 

[ads101]

Time for him to move down to 7 now I think.

 

[Ab Fan]

Expect him to do well in Australia. Conditions would suit him there.His batting will be fine in Australian and South African conditions.

 

[Hasan123]

Ridiculous to bump this thread every time he fails. I don't even like him but got to admit he is a very good all rounder who's capeble of winning matches on his own in all 3 departments. He's improved versus spin . Would like to see him improve his accuracy with the ball though and improve his consistency with the bat.

But he's an impactful all rounder and will be one of the stars of this era.

 

[Markhor]

All this talk of Stokes being the next Botham and better than Flintoff - Flintoff was much more impactful with the ball.

 

[The Googly]

Stokes is a very good player. However, it seems as though he may not fulfill his potential. Maybe he should focus on being a batsman who bowls?

 

[hadi123]

Stokes is also a bit of a choker. Carlos Braithwaite destroyed him in the final and in the CT semi final against us, he didn't hit a single boundary and our batsmen smashed him all over the place. He also likes picking fights and throwing tantrums when things aren't going his way. I agree that he is over rated, he has potential yes but it's ridiculous how much the English pundits rate Stokes, they think of him as some sort of legend . He's an average bowler and an aggressive batsman on his day but not very consistent in either department. I'm not saying he's rubbish, he definitely should be in the England side but he is nowhere near one of the best players in the world.

 

[MMHS]

Ridiculous to bump this thread every time he fails. I don't even like him but got to admit he is a very good all rounder who's capeble of winning matches on his own in all 3 departments. He's improved versus spin . Would like to see him improve his accuracy with the ball though and improve his consistency with the bat.

But he's an impactful all rounder and will be one of the stars of this era.

But, to be fair to everyone criticizing him, you have to see it other way as well.

Biggest weakness of Stokes is that he is just not good enough bowler to make any impact. 1/2 wickets here & there every innings isn't what you want from your all rounder. You can say that he is impactful - but blasting one innings in a series (his average of <33 indicates his consistency level) doesn't make him much impactful either.

To me, anyone to be considered as match winner as all-rounder has to do it with ball, otherwise he needs to bat like Sobers, Kallis or at least Tony Greig - that's average of 40+ so that he can make the team as batsman. Stokes is super hyped & current Pom head coach picks players on their SR - which is fine for LO format, but don't think Stokes should be even considered as decent Test all rounder.

I think, this hype won't last long, unless he can take his batting average over 40 or bring bowling average around 30. At present, he is comfortably 3rd best Test all rounder even in ENG team after Moeen & Woakes - 4th, if you consider Jhonny as an all-rounder (which he is to me - serving 2 purpose for the team & can make starting XI for either).

Any given day, I'll pick Phillandar over Stokes in my Test team - almost everywhere across globe, and adjust other spots for combination (that's I'll drop one bowler to pick a batsman, who can average 35+). Some of the names he is associated with, just look back by 26/27 where they were standing in their Test team. You ask me - 5/6 years back, Tim Bresnan was comfortably a better Test all-round potential than Stokes is now at similar age.

He is a gun ODI/T20 player, hence his price at IPL indicates that, but in Test, just not good enough for the status he is given.

 

[Abdullah719]

Stokes is also a bit of a choker. Carlos Braithwaite destroyed him in the final and in the CT semi final against us, he didn't hit a single boundary and our batsmen smashed him all over the place. He also likes picking fights and throwing tantrums when things aren't going his way. I agree that he is over rated, he has potential yes but it's ridiculous how much the English pundits rate Stokes, they think of him as some sort of legend . He's an average bowler and an aggressive batsman on his day but not very consistent in either department. I'm not saying he's rubbish, he definitely should be in the England side but he is nowhere near one of the best players in the world.

Things like this?

Ben Stokes the best player in the world - Graeme Swann

Eoin Morgan: Ben Stokes is the best cricketer in the world

 

[mak36]

Things like this?

Ben Stokes the best player in the world - Graeme Swann

Eoin Morgan: Ben Stokes is the best cricketer in the world

True, but tbh I don't take anything Swann says too seriously. He's a bit of a village idiot at times.

 

[Hasan123]

But, to be fair to everyone criticizing him, you have to see it other way as well.

Biggest weakness of Stokes is that he is just not good enough bowler to make any impact. 1/2 wickets here & there every innings isn't what you want from your all rounder. You can say that he is impactful - but blasting one innings in a series (his average of <33 indicates his consistency level) doesn't make him much impactful either.

To me, anyone to be considered as match winner as all-rounder has to do it with ball, otherwise he needs to bat like Sobers, Kallis or at least Tony Greig - that's average of 40+ so that he can make the team as batsman. Stokes is super hyped & current Pom head coach picks players on their SR - which is fine for LO format, but don't think Stokes should be even considered as decent Test all rounder.

I think, this hype won't last long, unless he can take his batting average over 40 or bring bowling average around 30. At present, he is comfortably 3rd best Test all rounder even in ENG team after Moeen & Woakes - 4th, if you consider Jhonny as an all-rounder (which he is to me - serving 2 purpose for the team & can make starting XI for either).

Any given day, I'll pick Phillandar over Stokes in my Test team - almost everywhere across globe, and adjust other spots for combination (that's I'll drop one bowler to pick a batsman, who can average 35+). Some of the names he is associated with, just look back by 26/27 where they were standing in their Test team. You ask me - 5/6 years back, Tim Bresnan was comfortably a better Test all-round potential than Stokes is now at similar age.

He is a gun ODI/T20 player, hence his price at IPL indicates that, but in Test, just not good enough for the status he is given.

He's bowled some decent spells with the ball. He's capable of bowling at a good pace and also he has bowled well on some dead wickets. He does make things happen with the ball, I think it's harsh of you to expect him to be a strike bowler.

He lacks consistency but that will come. Lol at Bresnan being a better all rounder. He was decent at best .

 

[MMHS]

He's bowled some decent spells with the ball. He's capable of bowling at a good pace and also he has bowled well on some dead wickets. He does make things happen with the ball, I think it's harsh of you to expect him to be a strike bowler.

He lacks consistency but that will come. Lol at Bresnan being a better all rounder. He was decent at best .

Check this -

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/9310.html

There was genuine discussion if Bresnan can reach the level of Kapil or not. He faded away, because of fitness & distorted focus - he was part of 13 consecutive Test wins (his first Test) & at one point, probably after 10 Tests, he has a batting average over 40, bowling average under 25.