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Is Ben Stokes the most overrated cricketer currently? Deep dive into his stats

England all-rounder Ben Stokes will make his return from an injured hamstring in Durham Jets opening Vitality T20 Blast match against Yorkshire Vikings at Emerald Headingley on Thursday July 5.

Stokes, who tore his left hamstring in the build-up to the Test match against Pakistan in Leeds at the start of June, will play as a batsman for the Jets and not bowl in the match against Yorkshire. If he gets through the game without any issues, he will be available for selection for England’s third Vitality IT20 against India at The Brightside Ground, Bristol on Sunday July 8.

Stokes has been training with England since the latter part of the Royal London ODI series against Australia and will rejoin his county early next week leading into the start of Vitality Blast competition.
 
Faheem Ashraf is more overrated than Stokes lol...

Stokes is a genuine talent, his moral issues aside.
 
Most people are calling him ovverated due to his bowling . He is a decent support bowler but it's his batting which is his strength. If we are being honest he makes all teams in today's game on batting merit alone and I haven't even mentioned his fielding.
 
Stokes is brilliant but his antics and madness is something I dont expect from a great cricketer. He is a great but an uninspirational cricketer for sure.
 
Hasan123 said:
Most people are calling him ovverated due to his bowling . He is a decent support bowler but it's his batting which is his strength. If we are being honest he makes all teams in today's game on batting merit alone and I haven't even mentioned his fielding.
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Don't think he makes all teams on batting merit alone. Only averages 34/35 in test and odi cricket. May not make India's line up? But as an a/r he makes all sides comfortably. This does not mean he doesn't have good potential. Seems to have been developing well.
 
FreePalestine said:
Don't think he makes all teams on batting merit alone. Only averages 34/35 in test and odi cricket. May not make India's line up? But as an a/r he makes all sides comfortably. This does not mean he doesn't have good potential. Seems to have been developing well.
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Think it'd be true in ODIs at the moment. Averages 47.15 @ 101.34 since the World Cup (as well as being one of the top fielders in the world).
 
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As others have mentioned, his bowling makes it hard to claim he is a genuine all-rounder.

He has very few notable bowling performances but it does not take away the fact that he has been one of the best with the bat in the last few years.
 
He is the best all-rounder since the big four of the 80’s. I think he is better than Klusener.

Terrific, terrific player.
 
Mamoon said:
He is the best all-rounder since the big four of the 80’s. I think he is better than Klusener.

Terrific, terrific player.
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Both Stokes and Klusener have the ability to lose it under pressure.

Ex: 99' SF & 16' T20 WC
 
ManFan said:
Both Stokes and Klusener have the ability to lose it under pressure.

Ex: 99' SF & 16' T20 WC
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I would blame Donald more. The single was on had he responded to Klusener’s call instead of ball-watching.
 
ManFan said:
Both Stokes and Klusener have the ability to lose it under pressure.

Ex: 99' SF & 16' T20 WC
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Klusenar took the game from 16 runs required of 8 balls with 1 wkt in hand to 1 run reqd. from 4 balls. That's pressure man!
 
Mamoon said:
I would blame Donald more. The single was on had he responded to Klusener’s call instead of ball-watching.
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In the history books and scorecard, it does not matter.

He had hit two boundaries in the over and did not require a rash single. So it can be inferred that it was more due to his inability to handle the pressure than the fault of his partner, a less than capable tail-ender who did his part with four wickets in the match, a clear example that he could handle his own in a high-stakes situation.
 
How do you rate Ben Stokes in all formats of the game?

I think he is great in tests but not as good in LO. There aren't many good instances to remember for Stokes in LO.

Do you think he can become an ATG atleast in tests or even overall?
 
Has been in terrible form with the bat.

When was the last time he scored some meaningful runs on the international scene?
 
Two wickets in an over(including the wicket of Kohli) to turn the whole game around.

What a talent.
 
He is terrific in test cricket but a bottler in ODIs, reminiscence of an infamous beard from South Africa.
 
And he's going to miss the next Test !

Terrific spell in that 2nd innings.
 
Sick guy. Definitely get that Flintoff vibe with him.

Crap human being though.
 
He is one of those players who always shut his critics up who simply don’t learn, and will be on his back after two bad games.

Comfortably the best all-rounder in the world who possesses a magic touch. As long as he is on the field, England will always stand a chance.

There is always a fast hundred, a brilliant spell or a breathtaking catch around the corner for him.

A fantastic cricketer who would walk into any team in the world.
 
Such a stupid thread, he is best allrounder by a country mile. When he gets hot, he takes over the game both with bat or ball. England needs to involve crowd more into the game, that's one to get Strokes going!!

Today, there was no cloud, Strokes made the difference with his bull headed spell. That is his value to the team. He will be missed big time in next match...
 
yasir said:
Such a stupid thread, he is best allrounder by a country mile. When he gets hot, he takes over the game both with bat or ball. England needs to involve crowd more into the game, that's one to get Strokes going!!

Today, there was no cloud, Strokes made the difference with his bull headed spell. That is his value to the team. He will be missed big time in next match...
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Any all rounder capable of bowling 85+ mph and possessing a batting average over 30, cannot be considered over rated..
 
mak36 said:
He's bowled pretty well this test. :stokes
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Everyone will perform once a while. What about all the failures? Bowling average is a very good indicator and Stokes averages above 30 when he plays most of his games at home.
 
He has consistency issues with his bowling, but an absolute monster when he turns it on. By far, the best all-rounder in world cricket today and I don’t see anyone who can challenge him for a few years to come
 
The_Odd_One said:
Everyone will perform once a while. What about all the failures? Bowling average is a very good indicator and Stokes averages above 30 when he plays most of his games at home.
Click to expand...
home :
471 overs & 49 wickets @ average 32.08

Away:
550 overs & 55 wickets @ average 33.76


I think stokes is equally good bowler whether it's home or away conditions.
 
Usman Chadda said:
He has consistency issues with his bowling, but an absolute monster when he turns it on. By far, the best all-rounder in world cricket today and I don’t see anyone who can challenge him for a few years to come
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Really? :faheem
 
He's a guy who makes things happen. He will be wayward with the ball and inconsistent with the bat, but can turn things around any point during the game. Also has an aura with him, something most modern cricketers lack so much.
 
Mobashir said:
He is in the top 2 players of the world at the moment with Steven Smith.
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This is what I posted one year ago. He is still in the bracket of the top players in the world, and probably the best match winner you can have in your Test team.
 
Looking like taking more wickets today - Got Rahane twice almost
 
Mamoon said:
He is one of those players who always shut his critics up who simply don’t learn, and will be on his back after two bad games.

Comfortably the best all-rounder in the world who possesses a magic touch. As long as he is on the field, England will always stand a chance.

There is always a fast hundred, a brilliant spell or a breathtaking catch around the corner for him.

A fantastic cricketer who would walk into any team in the world.
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Hypocrisy at its best :)))
What you just mentioned Afridi did for years day in day out. He was always a game changer who had done it so many times that its hard to remember.. But but But wait he is pakistani.. so how can he be goood..
 
Usman Chadda said:
He has consistency issues with his bowling, but an absolute monster when he turns it on. By far, the best all-rounder in world cricket today and I don’t see anyone who can challenge him for a few years to come
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Terrific player. But certainly not the best All-Rounder in the world.

That tag goes to Shakib Al Hasan.
 
Kallis is miles ahead of him.

Yes, Stokes as a bowler is on par with him. But as a batsmen, Kallis alone is an ATG while Stokes is just good enough to walk into teams with the bat.

Stokes will go down an England great but not ATG. Kallis is an undisputed ATG and one of the greatest ever.
 
Ab Fan said:
Kallis is miles ahead of him.

Yes, Stokes as a bowler is on par with him. But as a batsmen, Kallis alone is an ATG while Stokes is just good enough to walk into teams with the bat.

Stokes will go down an England great but not ATG. Kallis is an undisputed ATG and one of the greatest ever.
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I have to disagree. A middle order batsman averaging 34 should not be walking into any good test team as a pure batsman.

Stokes is a batting all-arounder in LOIs and a bowling all-rounder in tests. He is not a pure all-rounder in any format.
 
the_outsider said:
I have to disagree. A middle order batsman averaging 34 should not be walking into any good test team as a pure batsman.

Stokes is a batting all-arounder in LOIs and a bowling all-rounder in tests. He is not a pure all-rounder in any format.
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Disagree. He is actually a better batsmen than a bowler in tests also. 6 hundreds already and he has got one each in India, SA and Aus. The inning he played in SA is something which many great batsmen also cant play.

He can reach the levels of Botham with the bat but his bowling is more like Kallis level, Kallis whose stats flatter with the bowl.

In ODIs, he is a nobody.
 
todfod 11 said:
Hypocrisy at its best :)))
What you just mentioned Afridi did for years day in day out. He was always a game changer who had done it so many times that its hard to remember.. But but But wait he is pakistani.. so how can he be goood..
Click to expand...

You are indeed right that my description fits Afridi as well, but you are also missing out a small detail - Afridi was a game changer mostly against minnows and flopped against the top class teams 9/10 times.

On the contrary, Stokes is a game changer against the top sides. Almost all of his great performances have come against the top teams.

I agree that Stokes and Afridi are similar. Afridi is after all a poor man’s Stokes.
 
Reverse Sweep said:
There is no way in the world he is better than Kallis
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There are no doubts over Kallis’ pedigree as a Test batsman, although he was not in the same class as the Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting and even Steve Waugh. He also struggled to score big and put the opposition to the sword (couldn’t score a double ton until the very end of his career).

As a bowler, he was very good in the first few years of his career. However, once he developed into a rock of a Test batsman, his bowling regressed.

In the last decade of his career, I can hardly recall any memorable performances with the ball. He was reduced to a 5th bowling option who would bowl a few cutters to give the main bowlers a rest.

He provided great balance to the South African team, but in the second half of his career, he was not a high impact all-rounder. He was a master batsman who could also do a job with the ball.

Stokes is more of a Klusener than Stokes, and I don’t think you can compare them to Kallis who was an all-rounder from a different breed.
 
Mamoon said:
You are indeed right that my description fits Afridi as well, but you are also missing out a small detail - Afridi was a game changer mostly against minnows and flopped against the top class teams 9/10 times.

On the contrary, Stokes is a game changer against the top sides. Almost all of his great performances have come against the top teams.

I agree that Stokes and Afridi are similar. Afridi is after all a poor man’s Stokes.
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Afridis 53 in 2009 t20 semi final against south africa was against Minnow? His 2 sixes in asia cup against ashwin was minnow bashing? His over in 99 series in which dismissed Ganguly , dravid and tendulkar in one over was mediocre. And many more performances where he thrashed english and Nz bowler as if they are nothing was all mediocre? it would be hard for you to swallow I guess but u r the most hypocritic person on this forum.:ashwin
 
Mamoon said:
There are no doubts over Kallis’ pedigree as a Test batsman, although he was not in the same class as the Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting and even Steve Waugh. He also struggled to score big and put the opposition to the sword (couldn’t score a double ton until the very end of his career).

As a bowler, he was very good in the first few years of his career. However, once he developed into a rock of a Test batsman, his bowling regressed.

In the last decade of his career, I can hardly recall any memorable performances with the ball. He was reduced to a 5th bowling option who would bowl a few cutters to give the main bowlers a rest.

He provided great balance to the South African team, but in the second half of his career, he was not a high impact all-rounder. He was a master batsman who could also do a job with the ball.

Stokes is more of a Klusener than Stokes, and I don’t think you can compare them to Kallis who was an all-rounder from a different breed.
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The great all rounder got hit for 4 sixes in a row in t20 final :)))
At best stokes is Azhar Mahmood part 2. at best
 
Ben Stokes will face cricket disciplinary hearing in December

Ben Stokes will finally face a cricket disciplinary hearing on December 5, four months after he was cleared of affray at Bristol Crown Court.

Stokes and Alex Hales will appear before the England & Wales Cricket Board’s cricket discipline commission in the six weeks between England’s tours to Sri Lanka and West Indies. Two days have been set aside for the hearing which relates to the incident in a Bristol street last September that led to Stokes’s arrest and allegations in court that Hales kicked a man in the head.

Both are likely to face charges of bringing the game into disrepute and could be handed lengthy bans. The complexity of the case and availability of a suitable panel delayed the start of the hearing until the end of the cricket season. England fly to Sri Lanka on Sept 28 and the management did not want Stokes or Hales to have to return home to face a disciplinary case while the tour was ongoing which explains the length of delay until it finally gets underway.

Hales was interviewed by police but never arrested or charged after the incident which left two men unconscious. Stokes was charged with affray but was found not guilty by a jury last month. He missed last year’s Ashes tour while the case was being investigated.

Alastair Cook could make a quick transition from playing to the commentary box after it emerged he is in discussions with TalkSPORT to cover the Sri Lanka tour. Cook retires from Test cricket after the Oval Test match.

He has agreed to continue playing for Essex but will be available for commentary work in the winter. Cook has mostly concentrated on cricket in recent years and has little commentary experience but will have no shortage of offers as England’s leading Test run scorer and a recent member of the team.

TalkSPORT have live rights for both England tours this winter and are also expected to cover next year’s tour to South Africa ahead of the BBC’s Test Match Special.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket...l-face-cricket-disciplinary-hearing-december/
 
the_outsider said:
Terrific player. But certainly not the best All-Rounder in the world.

That tag goes to Shakib Al Hasan.
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Shakib doesn’t play much against the top teams, and when he does, he goes missing quite often. His averages against the top sides aren’t flash, while Stokes has definitely more impact in the past few years.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Shakib doesn’t play much against the top teams, and when he does, he goes missing quite often. His averages against the top sides aren’t flash, while Stokes has definitely more impact in the past few years.
Click to expand...

But stats say otherwise. Shakib has outbowled and outbatted Stokes in Tests, even against top teams.

Batting records:

Shakib: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...l2=span;team=25;template=results;type=batting

Stokes: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=1;template=results;type=batting

Bowling records:

Point to note: Shakib has 12 five-wicket-hauls against top teams and Stokes has 3. Both have played the same no. of tests.

Shakib: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...l1=span;team=25;template=results;type=bowling

Stokes: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=1;template=results;type=bowling


In ODIs obviously, there is no comparison.
 
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Stokes is a better bowler than Kallizzz was. More of a match changer.

Kallizzz is obviously the significantly better (and significantly more boring) batsman.
 
James said:
Stokes is a better bowler than Kallizzz was. More of a match changer.

Kallizzz is obviously the significantly better (and significantly more boring) batsman.
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Isn't even a better bowler.

The only thing Stokes does better than Kallis could is ground fielding.
 
the_outsider said:
Isn't even a better bowler.

The only thing Stokes does better than Kallis could is ground fielding.
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I have been asking Kallizzz fans on PP for over 10 years to name me a memorable or match-winning spell, or even a signature one-off dismissal, that he produced with the ball. Nobody ever replies.
 
Stokes is an impact player; something happens when he is on and has been a thorn in Indian sides
 
Stokes reminds me a lot of Jesse Ryder. Although he is potentially very good, England will be better off without him
 
James said:
I have been asking Kallizzz fans on PP for over 10 years to name me a memorable or match-winning spell, or even a signature one-off dismissal, that he produced with the ball. Nobody ever replies.
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1) His 100 vs McGrath/Warne in Australia which helped SA save a test match in Australia.

2) 1998 ICC Champions Trophy(Knockouts)(Player of the match in semis and finals both)

3) 2007 test series win in Pakistan( Player of the match in 1st test and 2nd test both and also player of the series)
 
Ab Fan said:
1) His 100 vs McGrath/Warne in Australia which helped SA save a test match in Australia.

2) 1998 ICC Champions Trophy(Knockouts)(Player of the match in semis and finals both)

3) 2007 test series win in Pakistan( Player of the match in 1st test and 2nd test both and also player of the series)
Click to expand...

I was asking about bowling.
 
James said:
I was asking about bowling.
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His 5/30 in Knockouts final is definitely one.

He was actually good in first half of his test career but in the second half, it seemed like he just is there to play the support role to main bowlers. Ofcourse, Stokes is a better bowler than him for me but he is inferior to Flintoff with the bowl.

Kallis was more of a minnow-basher with the bowl. His numbers take a big hit when we exclude Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.With the bat, he was an ATG alone though, kept on scoring hundreds after hundreds on a regular basis.
 
Totally agree that he is a great batsman, I would just take Stokes over him if we were talking bowling only.

Interesting that you mention Flintoff whose record isn’t as good as Stokes with the ball.
 
James said:
Totally agree that he is a great batsman, I would just take Stokes over him if we were talking bowling only.

Interesting that you mention Flintoff whose record isn’t as good as Stokes with the ball.
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Flintoff record with the bowl is as misleading as it gets. How can a bowler like him end up with meagre 3 5-fers is a complete mystery?

I rate Flintoff very highly with the bowl. A bowler of his equivalent should be having 10 5-fers atleast over his career. Stokes has 5. He still has quite a way to go to match Flintoff's bowling.

Stokes is a better batsmen than Flintoff.
 
Ab Fan said:
Flintoff record with the bowl is as misleading as it gets. How can a bowler like him end up with meagre 3 5-fers is a complete mystery?

I rate Flintoff very highly with the bowl. A bowler of his equivalent should be having 10 5-fers atleast over his career. Stokes has 5. He still has quite a way to go to match Flintoff's bowling.

Stokes is a better batsmen than Flintoff.
Click to expand...

That's because a 5fer is a very poor metric to judge a bowler. How often does a batsman score 50% of a team's runs?
 
the_outsider said:
That's because a 5fer is a very poor metric to judge a bowler. How often does a batsman score 50% of a team's runs?
Click to expand...

But Stokes, an inferior bowler, has already got five 5-fers. Moeen Ali has also got five 5-fers with the bowl.

Btw, you pick any statistical metric and will still struggle to judge Flintoff very well.
 
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Usman Chadda said:
Shakib doesn’t play much against the top teams, and when he does, he goes missing quite often. His averages against the top sides aren’t flash, while Stokes has definitely more impact in the past few years.
Click to expand...


Shakib has a double hundred overseas. 15 odd 5 wicket hauls against quality sides. And we are talking in tests only. I agree Stokes has made impact but he had good support from other allrounders like Ali, Woakes.

LOIs - Stokes not even in the picture.

Shakib is the number one allrounder in the world. The statistics will tell you that. ICC rankings will tell you that.

How many cricketers has been among the top 1/2 allrounders in all formats in the rankings for 9+ years?
 
Having said that it would be a dream for us to have a player like Stokes in our side along with Shakib. A pace bowling allrounder would be an absolute gem for us
 
Ab Fan said:
But Stokes, an inferior bowler, has already got five 5-fers. Moeen Ali has also got five 5-fers with the bowl.

Btw, you pick any statistical metric and will still struggle to judge Flintoff very well.
Click to expand...

I wasn't really talking about Flintoff or any other bowler.

I was just stating that a 5fer is a poor metric to judge a bowler.
 
England all-rounder Ben Stokes has expressed how he has "changed the way he does things" in the aftermath of an incident in Bristol, insisting that he wants to be remembered for his exploits on the cricket field.

Stokes, speaking to The Daily Mirror, commented on lifestyle alterations he has made since he was cleared of affray charges by a Bristol Crown Court in August last year, following a late-night brawl in September 2017, and was forced to miss numerous crucial England series through suspension.

"I was that close to my career ending and being thrown away just like that," he said. "That might be the thing that has changed the way I do things."

Although Stokes maintains that he still enjoys celebrating with his team-mates, he also said that compromises have had to be made, and he has adapted to the nature of being a 'target' in the public eye. "I still go out, but if you mean going ‘out out’, I don’t go ‘out out’ any more," he said. "I used to love going out and celebrating with the lads, but we can do that in the hotel and I don’t miss it."

"There are people ready to target you everywhere you go. I prefer sitting in and chatting absolute nonsense with my team-mates."

The expectation and role-model status of being a global sporting star is something Stokes has acknowledged. "You’re an international sportsman and people see you do that, I totally understand it and it is hugely regrettable."

In the lead up to the ICC Men's Cricket World Cup in May, the 27-year old said that he was keen to improve his reputation by helping England win the tournament on home soil. He has 79 ODI caps to his name, having made his debut in the format back in 2011. "I don’t want to be remembered as the guy who had a fight in the street", he said. "I want to do things on the field to be remembered for."

“If we win the World Cup, that becomes the first paragraph."

Stokes and England will take on Pakistan in a five-match ODI series prior to the tournament, commencing on 5 May.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/1169997
 
Mamoon said:
He is the best all-rounder since the big four of the 80’s. I think he is better than Klusener.

Terrific, terrific player.
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He’s not even the best all rounder in his own generation at the moment!
 
Yes, he is massively overrated.

England rely on many other players more than Stokes.
 
FreePalestine said:
He’s not even the best all rounder in his own generation at the moment!
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You could argue he is better than Klusener but Klusener could perform under pressure, some of his best innings came with the tail in crunch situations. Furthermore, Holder is much better than him. He is as good as Woakes, if not Woakes is better because he has had a Test innings or two of not in the past 12 months when Stokes hasn't.
 
MenInG said:
England all-rounder Ben Stokes has expressed how he has "changed the way he does things" in the aftermath of an incident in Bristol, insisting that he wants to be remembered for his exploits on the cricket field.
Click to expand...

I just remember him for the punch thing and the handling the ball incident in the last WC and that weird coming down the wicket and slogging with your eyes shut shot to Hasan in CT. There isn't much of note he's done with bat in the past few years; performed when others perform, no stand out innings. With the ball he's ok...
 
Best all-rounder in the world for a reason. Terrific match-winning innings.

He will always have doubters and he will always own them. That is the story of his career.
 
Overrated in ODIs but it doesn't mean he is bad. Hardly any quality pace bowler all rounder nowadays so he is fine. But no 2nd coming of Botham or Flintoff

Good for test, especially in English conditions or when there is reverse swing
 
Always been a big fan. He has no contenders for the best all rounder in the world title.

But, the problem with him recently in ODI's is that he has a lesser role. He very rarely has opportunities to win the match because it is often already won by the top 4.

These pitches have actually make him look less important than what he really is in ODI's.
 
Ab Fan said:
Flintoff record with the bowl is as misleading as it gets. How can a bowler like him end up with meagre 3 5-fers is a complete mystery?

I rate Flintoff very highly with the bowl. A bowler of his equivalent should be having 10 5-fers atleast over his career. Stokes has 5. He still has quite a way to go to match Flintoff's bowling.

Stokes is a better batsmen than Flintoff.
Click to expand...

Because he consistently pitched too short for most of his career. Had he pitched it up half a yard he would have got a lot more test wickets.
 
Overrated Ben Chokes starts his World Cup campaign with a terrible 89. Time for the real all-rounders to show him how it is done.
 
ManFan said:
In the history books and scorecard, it does not matter.

He had hit two boundaries in the over and did not require a rash single. So it can be inferred that it was more due to his inability to handle the pressure than the fault of his partner, a less than capable tail-ender who did his part with four wickets in the match, a clear example that he could handle his own in a high-stakes situation.
Click to expand...

Except it was not a rash single at all.
 
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