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Is England even less competitive than Pakistan in Tests in Australia?

Seriously, is it even possible for England or any other team to be worse in Australia in Test cricket than Pakistan? The 1999 Test series where every Pakistani senior choked in grand way showed the way.​
 
Since 2000 , Teams record in Australia

Team Mat Won Lost Tied Draw W/L
South Africa 18 5 9 0 4 0.555
India 30 7 15 0 8 0.466
England 33 4 26 0 3 0.153
New Zealand 15 1 10 0 4 0.1
West Indies 18 1 15 0 2 0.066
ICC World XI 1 0 1 0 0 0
Bangladesh 2 0 2 0 0 0
Zimbabwe 2 0 2 0 0 0
Sri Lanka 9 0 8 0 1 0
Pakistan 14 0 14 0 0 0
 
Since 2000 , Teams record in Australia

Team Mat Won Lost Tied Draw W/L
South Africa 18 5 9 0 4 0.555
India 30 7 15 0 8 0.466
England 33 4 26 0 3 0.153
New Zealand 15 1 10 0 4 0.1
West Indies 18 1 15 0 2 0.066
ICC World XI 1 0 1 0 0 0
Bangladesh 2 0 2 0 0 0
Zimbabwe 2 0 2 0 0 0
Sri Lanka 9 0 8 0 1 0
Pakistan 14 0 14 0 0 0

Oh wow after all this England still get a bronze?
 
What kind of this thread is this? Pakistan hasn’t won in Australia in more than 20 years now, while England have won a series in 2010/11.
 
2010 series is treated as anamoly even by british media which is strange though. Because i understand that was a transition team.
 
Screenshot-2025-12-21-185927.jpg
 
Anderson and broad were key in their recent encounters and wins, without them e gland has struggled.
 
England gets to play 5 test series in Australia every 4 years yet they still have only managed to win one series since the Ashes started tells you a lot about how bad they have been compared to Pakistan or any other test playing nation who has a poor record in Australia
 
England gets to play 5 test series in Australia every 4 years yet they still have only managed to win one series since the Ashes started tells you a lot about how bad they have been compared to Pakistan or any other test playing nation who has a poor record in Australia
Playing 4-5 tests in series makes it much harder to win series than let's say if series had only 2-3 tests.

But it should be much easier to win 1 test here and there.
 
Playing 4-5 tests in series makes it much harder to win series than let's say if series had only 2-3 tests.

But it should be much easier to win 1 test here and there.
Like Vaughan did at the SCG. But after WTC is put in place teams started taking every test seriously. They don't want to miss out on points.
 
Only if England could have the luxury of having non-bouncy Australian pitches, like India do when they are touring (for the viewership money)...

PS: Australian captains have complained about their own pitches during the series against India - Steven Smith once even said that he felt as if he was playing in India instead of Australia
 
Only if England could have the luxury of having non-bouncy Australian pitches, like India do when they are touring (for the viewership money)...

PS: Australian captains have complained about their own pitches during the series against India - Steven Smith once even said that he felt as if he was playing in India instead of Australia
Nonsense lol India bullied Australia and hurt them bad with short balls.

Travis head: It was scary

 
WHwen you play for your team you take the blow.. Faced 1200 balls in 2018, 1000 balls in 2021. He took the blows. You wear the badge. You fight

 
Nonsense lol India bullied Australia and hurt them bad with short balls.

Travis head: It was scary


You are right. Steve Smith was scared of Indian genuine fast bowling when he was complaining about knee high bounce on Australian pitches. May be he was batting without pads...
 
You are right. Steve Smith was scared of Indian genuine fast bowling when he was complaining about knee high bounce on Australian pitches. May be he was batting without pads...
I showed you the video evidence of how hostile the bowling was. No AUstralian pitch has that kind of characateristic. May be you are talking about Rawalpindi , Dubai pitches. Australia has the highest bounce and pace combination.
 
I showed you the video evidence of how hostile the bowling was. No AUstralian pitch has that kind of characateristic. May be you are talking about Rawalpindi , Dubai pitches. Australia has the highest bounce and pace combination.

You are right. Steve Smith while giving an interview in Australia about a match between Australia and Indian team was complaining about Rawalpindi, and Dubai pitches...
 
Only if England could have the luxury of having non-bouncy Australian pitches, like India do when they are touring (for the viewership money)...

PS: Australian captains have complained about their own pitches during the series against India - Steven Smith once even said that he felt as if he was playing in India instead of Australia
Yawwwwwwnnnnnn

Neighbours just can't digest India won two tours down under that they with their legendary line up oaf pahaaasttttt bowlers couldn't ...

Bitter and childish and bordering on moronic.
 
Only if England could have the luxury of having non-bouncy Australian pitches, like India do when they are touring (for the viewership money)...

PS: Australian captains have complained about their own pitches during the series against India - Steven Smith once even said that he felt as if he was playing in India instead of Australia
Adelaide was a non bouncy wicket. Still got hammered
 
Yawwwwwwnnnnnn

Neighbours just can't digest India won two tours down under that they with their legendary line up oaf pahaaasttttt bowlers couldn't ...

Bitter and childish and bordering on moronic.

This is not a Bollywood movie review forum. You don't have to give over the top, absolutely divorced from reality reviews here, just because the movies are Indian. You can speak the truth.
 
Only if England could have the luxury of having non-bouncy Australian pitches, like India do when they are touring (for the viewership money)...

PS: Australian captains have complained about their own pitches during the series against India - Steven Smith once even said that he felt as if he was playing in India instead of Australia
Many Aussie ex players have commented the same.
 
This is not a Bollywood movie review forum. You don't have to give over the top, absolutely divorced from reality reviews here, just because the movies are Indian. You can speak the truth.
The truth is every time ICT performs Pakistani PP finds a convenient excuse to disparage it. Times and decades change, however the undermining doesn't.

Divorced from reality is Bobby and Umar who Akmal better than Kohli.

It's allrite we understand Pakistan got talent but nothing to show for in Oz, whilst India with their not so talented bunch done Ozzie's twice over on their backyard.

That is the truth rest is all PP topibaazi
 
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You are right. Steve Smith while giving an interview in Australia about a match between Australia and Indian team was complaining about Rawalpindi, and Dubai pitches...

haha Nonsense. I just showed you the video. They even spiced up SCG pitch which is traditionally spin friendly. You are just bitter that your "phast bowlers" couldn't do jack there. Even in the test where INdia was roleld over for 36 India had first innings lead.
 
Sunshine this forum at times is worse than a lollywood drama. The truth is every time ICT performs Pakistani PP finds a convenient excuse to disparage it. Times and decades change, however the undermining doesn't.

Divorced from reality is Bobby and Umar who Akmal better than Kohli.

It's allrite we understand Pakistan got talent but nothing to show for in Oz, whilst India with their not so talented bunch done Ozzie's twice over on their backyard.

That is the truth rest is all PP topibaazi

haha Nonsense. I just showed you the video. They even spiced up SCG pitch which is traditionally spin friendly. You are just bitter that your "phast bowlers" couldn't do jack there. Even in the test where INdia was roleld over for 36 India had first innings lead.
You too are way too intelligent posters to feed this guy. This kinda mentality should be encouraged among Paks. It suits India in the long run. Hell, even british born Paks like @DeadlyVenom can't escape it. It convinces them things are stacked against them inhibits their thinking and leads societal atrophy
 
I believe this is the 6th time this century that Australia has won the home Ashes series in straight sets (I.e. Australia secured the Ashes after the first 3 tests)

2002/3: Australia won 4-1

2006/7 Australia whitewashed England 5-0

2010/11 England won 3-1 (a rare victory for England in Australia)

2013/14 Australia 4-0

2017/18 Australia 5-0

2021/22 Australia 4-0

2025/26 Australia lead 3-0 with 2 to play

Australia in (Home) Ashes in 21st century to date: won 26, lost just 4, drawn 3
 
I believe this is the 6th time this century that Australia has won the home Ashes series in straight sets (I.e. Australia secured the Ashes after the first 3 tests)

2002/3: Australia won 4-1

2006/7 Australia whitewashed England 5-0

2010/11 England won 3-1 (a rare victory for England in Australia)

2013/14 Australia 4-0

2017/18 Australia 5-0

2021/22 Australia 4-0

2025/26 Australia lead 3-0 with 2 to play

Australia in (Home) Ashes in 21st century to date: won 26, lost just 4, drawn 3

The secret to England's success in the 2010/11 series were the quality of their preparations. They had prepared for that tour for 5-6 months and they selected the squads i.e. Chris Tremlett based on the requirements of the Australian conditions. I have yet to see England show the same hunger to succeed in Australia since then. The same hunger and determination to succeed in Australian conditions was shown by India in 2018 and 2021.
 
The secret to England's success in the 2010/11 series were the quality of their preparations. They had prepared for that tour for 5-6 months and they selected the squads i.e. Chris Tremlett based on the requirements of the Australian conditions. I have yet to see England show the same hunger to succeed in Australia since then. The same hunger and determination to succeed in Australian conditions was shown by India in 2018 and 2021.

Still 3 innings win in Australai is stupendous. Can't take anything away from them. They had the tools to do well there. Australia bowling was inexperienced. But their batting was decent enough. They had Clarke, Hussey, Punter albeit on his last legs, watson. Wonder if Any flower was a catalyst. Look at Andy Flower somehow made RCB win the IPL for the first time ever. His coaching stints are pretty good. One thing Andy Flower doesn't sit on laurels. Even when they win he tries to look for how to improve. This unit is opposite. They just chest thump at every opportunity without analyzing "what could go worng"

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/australia-v-england-meticulous-flower-helps-england-bloom-495813
 
Yawwwwwwnnnnnn

Neighbours just can't digest India won two tours down under that they with their legendary line up oaf pahaaasttttt bowlers couldn't ...

Bitter and childish and bordering on moronic.
You're being unfair here. Every person has the right to apply balm on their wounds.
 
English cricketers, ex cricketers and commentators all the time :
Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball

When Ashes actually comes, and it’s time to show Bazball to Aussies they just quit like losers and go on a binge drinking trip in the middle of the series.

Such a shame.
At least don’t talk about Ashes and Bazball all the time now.
 
English cricketers, ex cricketers and commentators all the time :
Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Ashes Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball Bazball

When Ashes actually comes, and it’s time to show Bazball to Aussies they just quit like losers and go on a binge drinking trip in the middle of the series.

Such a shame.
At least don’t talk about Ashes and Bazball all the time now.
Neil manthrop asked the right question 'Does this world Test championship mean anything to England" . Good question. Because they can still be in the running if they win the last 2 tests. All teams take WTC seriously. Australia, SA, NZ, India. Why is England who incidentally host the WTC final don't take it seriously. They allow themselves to be penalized for slow over-rated. They give up after series loss.
 
The secret to England's success in the 2010/11 series were the quality of their preparations. They had prepared for that tour for 5-6 months and they selected the squads i.e. Chris Tremlett based on the requirements of the Australian conditions. I have yet to see England show the same hunger to succeed in Australia since then. The same hunger and determination to succeed in Australian conditions was shown by India in 2018 and 2021.

You missed the biggest secret : An aussie team that had pretty much lost all of its key fast bowlers and Starc, Cummins, Steve Smith were yet to arrive.
 
England's focus nowadays is more towards scoring big scores and playing HOOO HAAA shots... I don't think they are going with a winning mentality.
 
Quality wise, South Africa were always no.2 except during that transition phase. India were no.3 and England probably a 4th.

England mostly brings hype, India some hype and some quality, South Africa mostly quality and not much hype.
 
Don't think this thread is relevant anymore :kp

Yea.. Pakistan has to win one now. Even at the peak of Australia , England could nick one or two. But NZ and Pakistan just freeze. Now after a long time they have reset the clock. Pakistan will remain as the worst touring nation to Australia.
 
Yea.. Pakistan has to win one now. Even at the peak of Australia , England could nick one or two. But NZ and Pakistan just freeze. Now after a long time they have reset the clock. Pakistan will remain as the worst touring nation to Australia.
NZ still won a test in Australia in 2011 and drew the series. They drew a series in Australia during the early 2000s too. They seem to have some kind of mental block against Australia that is reminiscent to Pakistan's mental block against India. Even when Australia toured there last time the Kiwis bottled it despite being in some good positions
 

Not sure if anyone has read this. Fascinating that a modern team like England can allow such a unprofessional culture.

One thing is clear, I don't see Mccullam and Rob Key surviving this debacle
 
Every time England lose the Ashes, the booze excuse comes up.

Its easier to project this than accept the alternate reality.
 
This is an old excuse. Team is just not good enough to do well in Aus.
 
I think England would've lost badly even without alcohol/indiscipline.

Truth is they don't have the quality to compete in Australia.

They need to ditch Bazball and get a proper Test team.
 
'What don't we know?': Michael Vaughan launches stinging attack on England as fresh claims emerge

Michael Vaughan has launched a stinging attack on England after fresh claims regarding their diabolical Ashes tour continue to emerge.

A report from the UK Telegraph, syndicated by The Sydney Morning Herald, delivered an incredibly deep insight into the issues that resulted in a 4-1 series loss.

The report included claims at least one England player went out after the third Test in Adelaide, despite directions from captain Ben Stokes not to do so just weeks after Harry Brook landed himself on a final warning for a late-night bouncer altercation.

Then there was the ill-fated trip to Noosa, which caused quite a stir after the second Test defeat in Brisbane, before footage of an inebriated Ben Duckett surfaced online after the series had already been clinched by the Aussies with a 3-0 lead.

England investigating Noosa trip

Major question marks over the team's preparation under Brendon McCullum have been rife before, during and after the bludgeoning series loss to Australia, with the coach's relationship with Stokes now heavily under the microscope.

The continued fallout from the series and Brook's off-field incident left Vaughan ropable as the former Test captain ripped into the team, coaches and ECB hierarchy.

"The ECB pushed it under the carpet," he said on Fox Cricket commentary.

"They said they threw the kitchen sink in with a fine, but for it to have come out just a couple of days ago on the back of a poor Ashes series where performance levels have been indifferent, the loose nature of the preparation has been a big question mark.

"My experience is you've got to hit the nail on the head at the time it happens, because once it comes out afterwards, 'why did they brush it under the carpet?'.

"So the England captain was able to go out the night before have a fracas with a bouncer then still play – probably on the same day. That can't be right … he should've been suspended for that game. Then you deal with it there and then.

"I had no problems with Noosa, but I do have a problem with Noosa on the back of them hiding something in New Zealand that they didn't tell us about.

"Clearly there's a lot of conversations to be had and understanding of what is right and what is wrong. When I see things like that and hear things like that, I always go, what don't we know? I think there'll be a lot of conversations over the next week or two."

Vaughan was then asked if the current leadership group should continue post-Ashes.

"I don't think they should continue after the Harry Brook situation," he said.

"If someone isn't going to be made accountable for losing another Ashes series and then on the back of what we now know, what makes you accountable?

"Someone has to be made accountable for so many mistakes. It's been the same for two or three years now – whether they like it or not, that's been the case.

"It's quite a loose operation and there's not been consequence for performance or shots that have been played throughout the last two or three years."

England have not won an Ashes series since 2015 on home soil and have won just one Test from their last 15 when touring Australia.

McCullum, as well as captain Stokes and director of cricket Rob Key and the entire squad and coaching staff, will now be subject to a full-scale review from the ECB.

 
So now it is only Pak and SL out of the major Test playing nations who don't have a win in Aus in 21st century.

That Sydney test just hurts a lot more now
 
Perhaps, but it’s also fair to say that they performed less than the sum of their parts and made bizarre strategic decisions repeatedly.
Because they had a few drinks during their weeks long break between Tests in a resort in Perth? No, no it's not.

This reminds me of the time Pakistani fans blamed the team's lack of performance in the World Cup on some players going to a sheesha place and smoking sheesha
 
People that are downplaying this are doing it from a position of being unaware of what UK "lad" drinking culture is Vs what having a few drinks entails.

A lot of people have an awful relationship with alcohol. Extreme levels of drunkenness and nights out usually ends up with vomitting in streets, urinating on streets or on yourself, and fights and injuries. There is a saying in Spain that you know summer has started when a British Tourist falls of a balcony. Most sports cultures,.especially the more posh boy sport like Cricket and Rugby have this.culture at club and university level but it looks like these players haven't let it go.

4 years to prepare for the biggest tour of their lives, and they sacrifice training and warm ups to go on the p!ss? The articles details players showing up unfit and overweight after a few weeks in NZ for example.

Sure there was a massive skills gap but the lack of discipline, cockiness, failure to prepare and respect for the captains instructions make it an even bigger gap to bridge.
 
Because they had a few drinks during their weeks long break between Tests in a resort in Perth? No, no it's not.

This reminds me of the time Pakistani fans blamed the team's lack of performance in the World Cup on some players going to a sheesha place and smoking sheesha
Not solely based on the drinks, but objectively they’re a better team than they’ve shown here. Had they performed like this Vs the Indians at home, they would have lost that series.
 
There is a lot of excitement about the drinking, because it is representative of the culture within the dressing room under McCullum (he removed the curfew that Strauss has introduced) and the media are jumping on it.
That said, these are professional sportsman on contracts of ca £1 million per year, so they should take responsibility for their own preparation and not need curfews.

However, however it should not be used to hide the fact that England were not good enough and seldom have been in Australia.

Australia have won 16 and drawn 2 of the last 18 Tests v England at home.
This century, England have won 4 Tests in Australia and lost 26.

Hopes were higher this time, mainly because Australia had obvious deficiencies, not because England were that good.

Normal service has continued —England are an average team. Can’t beat Australia and India at home and get thumped by both away from home.
 
Not solely based on the drinks, but objectively they’re a better team than they’ve shown here. Had they performed like this Vs the Indians at home, they would have lost that series.
Can't say I agree. Test cricket is one format where it matters how much Test cricket you play, and no team plays as much Test cricket as England. But if you look at their performances, the results are quite poor given the amount of Test cricket they play. It's not just the drawn series at home against India and the 4-1 thrashing in the Ashes, they also lost to India 4-1 in India and lost a series to Pakistan in Pakistan. They even lost a Test match to Sri Lanka at home. This is exactly how good they are.
 
Can't say I agree. Test cricket is one format where it matters how much Test cricket you play, and no team plays as much Test cricket as England. But if you look at their performances, the results are quite poor given the amount of Test cricket they play. It's not just the drawn series at home against India and the 4-1 thrashing in the Ashes, they also lost to India 4-1 in India and lost a series to Pakistan in Pakistan. They even lost a Test match to Sri Lanka at home. This is exactly how good they are.
This. A lot of England/Bazball fans are simply upset that their team wasn't as good as their expectations.

Reality is that this team is only really good in certain conditions and don't have the skill to outdo better teams in tougher conditions.

Even before the whole drinking episode and Noosa, they pretty much executed similarly in the first two Tests and fell short.

Lack of prep(allegedly), drinking etc. are just excuses.

This is exactly how this regime has gone about their business for the last 3.5 years.

They did the same kind of minimal prep for Pakistan 2022 and then pulled off an incredible 3-0 whitewash in PAK.

You could have picked any English XI in the country under any captain and coach and the results would've been similar.
 
This. A lot of England/Bazball fans are simply upset that their team wasn't as good as their expectations.

Reality is that this team is only really good in certain conditions and don't have the skill to outdo better teams in tougher conditions.

Even before the whole drinking episode and Noosa, they pretty much executed similarly in the first two Tests and fell short.

Lack of prep(allegedly), drinking etc. are just excuses.

This is exactly how this regime has gone about their business for the last 3.5 years.

They did the same kind of minimal prep for Pakistan 2022 and then pulled off an incredible 3-0 whitewash in PAK.

You could have picked any English XI in the country under any captain and coach and the results would've been similar.
Sometimes too much conviction in your methods can be a bad thing too. It feels alot like McCullum and Stokes have built an echo chamber where they get offended if people even try to question them and their methods. But I think ECB's patience is wearing thin now. It's hard to see these two continuing on past this WTC cycle.
 
The British can't hold their drink, but they don't need alcohol to lose in Aus/Ind 0-5/0-4/1-4.
 
Geoffrey Boycotts comments on Brendon Mccullam are absolutely spot on "Brendon is a gambling addict who thinks he is going to win his money back every time"
 
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