Is it right for a Muslim [living in the West] to join a Western army?

[sweep_shot]

A lot of Islamic clerics are against Muslim people joining western armies. The reason for that is western armies do military operations in Muslim states and kill people.

If you are a Muslim living in a western country, would you join the army?

My personal stance is I wouldn't join the Canadian army even though I love Canada and I am willing to serve this country in other ways.

 

[pillionrider]

Only if they have studied some useless Liberal Arts thing and have nothing better to do

 

[sweep_shot]

I made this thread because I see there are many Muslims in western armies. One of my high school mates (Pakistani Muslim) joined Canadian army too.

Just checking what folks think here.

 

[ElRaja]

lol, most of the middle east is racked by intra-muslim conflict.

such thinking sets a dangerous precedent, a soldiers job is not to make moral judgements, muslim armies commit atrocities against muslims, a soldiers job is to follow orders, and in doing so whether they are fighitng for a western or muslim army they do not have the capacity or right to judge the moral merits of the action being asked of them.

in essence joining any modern army, imo, is anti islamic because you are giving up your right to make a religion based moral call, islamic warfare is more suited to wars of specific outcomes, so you know who, what, where, when you are fighting, but this kind of warfare doesnt really exist anymore.

i know guys who have joined the TA, RAF, etc, and as long as they accept that, i think its perfectly fine, but if you join any army thinking you have the right to choose whether you fight or not, i think that's being highly disingenuous, and deceptive to yourself.

 

[Ronaldo7]

No. Never.
You'd basically be helping the west in killing innocent muslim civilians.

 

[Mamoon]

Joining the military is no different to paying taxes to western governments to fund the killings of Muslims.

 

[MenInG]

Different branches of the military - choose one that you feel will not harm Muslims if that is an issue.

 

[jino]

If you are a civilian doctor, will you treat a western soldier injured in Middle East operation?

 

[Local.Dada]

So you are ok living in a country whose government policies may impact the decisions of the army and the taxes you pay funds the government which fund the army but have a problem with joining the military?

When you take citizenship of most European countries or America you make a vow that if it comes to it you will be required to go and fight for the country? so are you saying Muslims should stop taking citizenship of other countries?

Every secular and democratic country believes in putting the nation first above race,religion,.gender etc that is what nationalism means. If your religion interferes with you performing your national duties then sorry you shouldn't live there.

Of course joining the army or not is a personal choice but if your line of thinking is religion interfering with national defence policy sets a dangerous precedent. In fact this is why in most non-muslim countries even the good muslim is looked upon with suspicion as to where his loyalties lie.

 

[sweep_shot]

I applied for an intelligence operator position within Canadian forces back in 2014. I was actually called in for an interview which I refused after giving it a second thought. Back then I was not religious and I didn't know whether it was halal or haram, so I applied.

But, I am now more religious and I am unlikely to apply for that type of position again.

 

[sweep_shot]

So you are ok living in a country whose government policies may impact the decisions of the army and the taxes you pay funds the government which fund the army but have a problem with joining the military?

When you take citizenship of most European countries or America you make a vow that if it comes to it you will be required to go and fight for the country? so are you saying Muslims should stop taking citizenship of other countries?

Every secular and democratic country believes in putting the nation first above race,religion,.gender etc that is what nationalism means. If your religion interferes with you performing your national duties then sorry you shouldn't live there.

Of course joining the army or not is a personal choice but if your line of thinking is religion interfering with national defence policy sets a dangerous precedent. In fact this is why in most non-muslim countries even the good muslim is looked upon with suspicion as to where his loyalties lie.

Well, people should have the right to choose. I can serve Canada in many different ways. Besides, Canada doesn't really go to war other than random NATO missions.

Regarding loyalty, I have higher loyalty toward Islam than I have for Canada or my native Bangladesh. It doesn't mean I hate Canada or Bangladesh. I try to balance things out.

Joining the military is no different to paying taxes to western governments to fund the killings of Muslims.

I agree. But, paying tax is something that I can't avoid. Joining army is avoidable.

 

[Local.Dada]

Well, people should have the right to choose. I can serve Canada in many different ways. Besides, Canada doesn't really go to war other than random NATO missions.

Regarding loyalty, I have higher loyalty toward Islam than I have for Canada or my native Bangladesh. It doesn't mean I hate Canada or Bangladesh. I try to balance things out.

I agree. But, paying tax is something that I can't avoid. Joining army is avoidable.

Then you should move to a country where religion takes precedence over nationalism. This is the oath below. looks like Canadian allegiance is more to Britain royalty.


Oath of Canada: I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Anyways as I said joining the army or not is a personal choice shouldn't be a religious one

 

[dildilpak]

So you are ok living in a country whose government policies may impact the decisions of the army and the taxes you pay funds the government which fund the army but have a problem with joining the military?

When you take citizenship of most European countries or America you make a vow that if it comes to it you will be required to go and fight for the country? so are you saying Muslims should stop taking citizenship of other countries?

Every secular and democratic country believes in putting the nation first above race,religion,.gender etc that is what nationalism means. If your religion interferes with you performing your national duties then sorry you shouldn't live there.

Of course joining the army or not is a personal choice but if your line of thinking is religion interfering with national defence policy sets a dangerous precedent. In fact this is why in most non-muslim countries even the good muslim is looked upon with suspicion as to where his loyalties lie.

I agree with this. If you cant put your country’s interests above your own religion, you should not be living in that country period. My kids are American & they have complete carte-blanche to serve America any way they can, even if it means joining the armed forces.

 

[sweep_shot]

Then you should move to a country where religion takes precedence over nationalism. This is the oath below. looks like Canadian allegiance is more to Britain royalty.


Oath of Canada: I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Anyways as I said joining the army or not is a personal choice shouldn't be a religious one

Well, I am a citizen of Canada. Why should I move? This is my home.

I am not harming Canada. I pay my taxes and follow all laws.

 

[Mamoon]

But, paying tax is something that I can't avoid. Joining army is avoidable.

Well you can avoid it. No one is forcing you to live in Canada. You can try to find work in a Muslim country and relocate.

However, it is obviously inconvenient for you due to a myriad of reasons and thus you justify your position.

The sufferings of Muslims is obviously less important to you than the benefits of living in a western country.

Different people care to different extents. Some care less than you while some care more than you. Hence, there is no point judging other people when you have also compromised at some point.

 

[dildilpak]

Well, I am a citizen of Canada. Why should I move? This is my home.

I am not harming Canada. I pay my taxes and follow all laws.

A hypothetical scenario - What if Canada tomorrow enters into a war with a Islamic country & comes up with a compulsory military draft law for its citizens.. What will you do then?

 

[sweep_shot]

A hypothetical scenario - What if Canada tomorrow enters into a war with a Islamic country & comes up with a compulsory military draft law for its citizens.. What will you do then?

I will probably get injured on purpose. I can always make excuses like Donald Trump dodged draft.

 

[dildilpak]

I will probably get injured on purpose. I can always make excuses like Donald Trump dodged draft.

And then people wonder why immigrants especially from Muslim countries are looked upon with suspicion! Donald Trump could get away with it because he owes allegiance to no other country or religion (not that he is not pilloried for that fact!), immigrants don’t have that luxury.

Also if your kids someday want to join Canadian army, what can you do about it?

 

[sweep_shot]

And then people wonder why immigrants especially from Muslim countries are looked upon with suspicion! Donald Trump could get away with it because he owes allegiance to no other country or religion (not that he is not pilloried for that fact!), immigrants don’t have that luxury.

Also if your kids someday want to join Canadian army, what can you do about it?

People who find Muslims suspicious are generally irrelevant people. Nobody should care about them. I definitely do not care.

I am not married and hence no kids. But, if I have kids, they need to follow conservative values. Joining army is likely not going to be allowed. No exception.

 

[Savak]

My cousin is a member of the US Army. He has already been to Afghanistan

 

[KingKhanWC]

You have be a right numpty to join armies of UK, US, France etc. No need to risk your life in order to kill poor people around the world.

Paying taxes is the law, joining an army is a choice. Idiotic comparison made earlier.

 

[KingKhanWC]

My cousin is a member of the US Army. He has already been to Afghanistan

Is he a Muslim?

 

[Slog]

If your belief that the army you maybe joining is not on the right path and your belief in that is very strong then you should also not fund that army via your taxes.

Otherwise you’re just all talk. It’s not that hard to not pay taxes to that country and move to another one.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If your belief that the army you maybe joining is not on the right path and your belief in that is very strong then you should also not fund that army via your taxes.

Otherwise you’re just all talk.

Nonsense, you have no choice but to pay taxes. You have a right to protest.

By your logic, you enjoy paying taxes so why not put on your tin hat and head off to some brown nation and kill some kids and women like American soldiers regularly do?

 

[Pakistanian]

You're confused. In some threads you claim to be a Canadian conservative and want to stop immigration and "freeloaders" yet on the other hand you don't even want to serve the military of your country so that means you aren't really a conservative or a patriot, you can barely claim to be Canadian.

 

[Savak]

Is he a Muslim?

Yup, Pakistani American. Apparently the guy was never interested in studies and always wanted to go join the army, it's the only thing he has ever strongly insisted on compared to the other options that his parents were happy atleast he knows what he wants to do and let him join the US armed forces.

Initially it was very controversial in our family but eventually the dust has settled and everyone has accepted it. In fact we have actually suggested to them if he indeed desires a career in the US Army, why not join a full fledged military school, program to further advance his prospects just like we have the Kakul Academy in Pakistan

 

[WC-Passion]

Joining the military is no different to paying taxes to western governments to fund the killings of Muslims.

There are Muslim and eastern governments where doing the same will lead to the funding of a military that will just kill other Muslims, but since you're not in the west, it's fine right?

 

[Savak]

It's a free world. People are free to pursue what they wish to do even if it means joining the Western army. In fact it is actually better for Muslims to join these institutions to act as a counter influence against neo cons, Hindus, Jews etc

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yup, Pakistani American. Apparently the guy was never interested in studies and always wanted to go join the army, it's the only thing he has ever strongly insisted on compared to the other options that his parents were happy atleast he knows what he wants to do and let him join the US armed forces.

Initially it was very controversial in our family but eventually the dust has settled and everyone has accepted it. In fact we have actually suggested to them if he indeed desires a career in the US Army, why not join a full fledged military school, program to further advance his prospects just like we have the Kakul Academy in Pakistan

My question wasn't because of any interest in his life but to find it if he feels guilty being part of state terrorism? This makes him and others terrorists as they have a choice to join a terrorist army.

 

[Abdul]

Yes, completely fine for them to join the military.

 

[Savak]

My question wasn't because of any interest in his life but to find it if he feels guilty being part of state terrorism? This makes him and others terrorists as they have a choice to join a terrorist army.

It's all about perspective, my cousins who were born and raised in the US practically consider themselves Americans

 

[KingKhanWC]

It's all about perspective, my cousins who were born and raised in the US practically consider themselves Americans

Irrelevant. It's no secret the US is the biggest state terrorist and it's wars not for self defence, so either they are stupid or enjoy being part of an army which kills innocent people almost daily around the world.?

 

[dildilpak]

It's all about perspective, my cousins who were born and raised in the US practically consider themselves Americans

They don’t practically consider themselves American, they ARE American by birth & nobody can take that away from them. So why should anybody be surprised or offended by that?

 

[dildilpak]

So let me throw the original question on the head & ask - do you guys support Muslims working in other Muslim countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia) which themselves are in a state of war against other Muslim country (Yemen, Iran)? Is that not hypocritical?

 

[sweep_shot]

So let me throw the original question on the head & ask - do you guys support Muslims working in other Muslim countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia) which themselves are in a state of war against other Muslim country (Yemen, Iran)? Is that not hypocritical?

I think Saudis should stop war with Yemen but then again you need to understand Yemen is currently run by Iran.

Iran is threatening Saudis and hence what Saudis are doing can be considered as an act of self-defense.

 

[dildilpak]

I think Saudis should stop war with Yemen but then again you need to understand Yemen is currently run by Iran.

Iran is threatening Saudis and hence what Saudis are doing can be considered as an act of self-defense.

But then there are many Pakistanis & Bangladeshis working or having trade relations with Iran, how about that?

 

[sweep_shot]

But then there are many Pakistanis & Bangladeshis working or having trade relations with Iran, how about that?

It is kind of complex.

I don't want Muslim states to fight with each other. However, when it comes to taking side between Saudis and Iran, I think I am going with Saudis. It is because I am Sunni.

Saudis have made many mistakes in the past but they are still in charge of Mecca and Medina. I give them benefit of doubt.

 

[dildilpak]

It is kind of complex.

I don't want Muslim states to fight with each other. However, when it comes to taking side between Saudis and Iran, I think I am going with Saudis. It is because I am Sunni.

Saudis have made many mistakes in the past but they are still in charge of Mecca and Medina. I give them benefit of doubt.

Exactly, if there is no unity among the Muslim countries themselves & it is still ok for Muslims to support one country over other, why blame the Western countries? If not East-West, you will still have Shia-Sunni war going on. And if nothing, there will be something else (like Urdu vs Bangla). The fallacy is thinking there is an Ummah when in truth everything is driven by self-interest.

 

[sweep_shot]

Exactly, if there is no unity among the Muslim countries themselves & it is still ok for Muslims to support one country over other, why blame the Western countries? If not East-West, you will still have Shia-Sunni war going on. And if nothing, there will be something else (like Urdu vs Bangla). The fallacy is thinking there is an Ummah when in truth everything is driven by self-interest.

I go with what scholars say. If they say I can't join, then I can't join. If scholars make mistakes, I am not at fault inn sha Allah.

I am yet to see any well-reputable scholar saying that it is fine to join western army. It is better to be safe.

 

[Slog]

Nonsense, you have no choice but to pay taxes. You have a right to protest.

By your logic, you enjoy paying taxes so why not put on your tin hat and head off to some brown nation and kill some kids and women like American soldiers regularly do?

You have a choice to leave.

If I was a citizen of Israel today, I wouldve left the country and given up my citizenship. British citizens who feel that strongly are in similar situation.

 

[Pakistanian]

You have a choice to leave.

If I was a citizen of Israel today, I wouldve left the country and given up my citizenship. British citizens who feel that strongly are in similar situation.

It's easy for you to say as an immigrant on here on a visa, people that were born and raised here have roots and can't just give everything up. Like KingKhan said you shouldn't compare taxation to serving the military, you literally pay tax on every little thing from sales tax to property tax.

 

[dildilpak]

I go with what scholars say. If they say I can't join, then I can't join. If scholars make mistakes, I am not at fault inn sha Allah.

I am yet to see any well-reputable scholar saying that it is fine to join western army. It is better to be safe.

Did you also ask these ‘scholars’ whether it was fine to live in a Western country before you emigrated to Canada?

 

[Slog]

It's easy for you to say as an immigrant on here on a visa, people that were born and raised here have roots and can't just give everything up. Like KingKhan said you shouldn't compare taxation to serving the military, you literally pay tax on every little thing from sales tax to property tax.

It’s not easy but where I did i say it was going to be easy. Saying that the army of a country you’re living in is a terrorist army is a big claim so requires big claims. All I’m asking for is no hypocrisy.

It depends on how strongly you feel about it. I personally don’t think you feel as strongly about American or British armies being ‘terrorist armies’ as KKWC so not the same expectation. But if someone does feel as strongly about it then they should do their all not to fund it.

 

[Pakistanian]

It’s not easy but where I did i say it was going to be easy. Saying that the army of a country you’re living in is a terrorist army is a big claim so requires big claims. All I’m asking for is no hypocrisy.

It depends on how strongly you feel about it. I personally don’t think you feel as strongly about American or British armies being ‘terrorist armies’ as KKWC so not the same expectation. But if someone does feel as strongly about it then they should do their all not to fund it.

Or he can exercise his right as a citizen and vote.

 

[Slog]

Or he can exercise his right as a citizen and vote.

Why can’t he do that as part of the army then? It should be fine either way.

 

[Pakistanian]

Why can’t he do that as part of the army then? It should be fine either way.

Why should he be forced to serve the army? It's a voluntary service. You have the right to protest and vote if you don't support wars. Do you agree with Muhammad Ali being stripped of his Olympic medals just cause chose not to go to Vietnam?

 

[KingKhanWC]

You have a choice to leave.

If I was a citizen of Israel today, I wouldve left the country and given up my citizenship. British citizens who feel that strongly are in similar situation.

Millions, in fact most Britons are against the war. They can change by protesting, moving out isn't practical and also isn't the way to stop your government doing injustice and state terrorism. If one feels strongly and they live in a nation like the UK, they can make a difference as proven after the Iraq war. The UK will now not send troops into any new nation due to the ill feelings over past illegal, immoral wars.

Why not leave the US then? Or do you support the US wars and think they are more moral than the Israeli terrorism? lol

 

[sweep_shot]

Did you also ask these ‘scholars’ whether it was fine to live in a Western country before you emigrated to Canada?

I came to Canada when I was 15. It was not my choice. My parents brought me here.

It is too late now to move anywhere else. Maybe I can move to Saudi Arabia later on in life if I can find a good job there.

 

[Saj]

Deleted a few.

Stick to topic.

Stop the personal comments.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes it is okay to serve the country. Going to war against a Muslim country is a different thing altogether.

 

[MenInG]

Deleted a few.

Stick to topic.

Stop the personal comments.

ALL : Read this again.

 

[Slog]

Millions, in fact most Britons are against the war. They can change by protesting, moving out isn't practical and also isn't the way to stop your government doing injustice and state terrorism. If one feels strongly and they live in a nation like the UK, they can make a difference as proven after the Iraq war. The UK will now not send troops into any new nation due to the ill feelings over past illegal, immoral wars.

Why not leave the US then? Or do you support the US wars and think they are more moral than the Israeli terrorism? lol

Yea I don’t feel as strongly against US wars as you seem to against these wars by US and Britain

 

[Slog]

Why should he be forced to serve the army? It's a voluntary service. You have the right to protest and vote if you don't support wars. Do you agree with Muhammad Ali being stripped of his Olympic medals just cause chose not to go to Vietnam?

I’m not asking him to serve the army. Seems like you’re not following the conversation.

He’s saying who ever is part of the army is a sellout and is furthering an evil state etc etc whereas i think he’s being hypocritical because he’s doing the same thing with his tax pounds.

You do know that the state cares more for his tax money than his physical being as far as propping up an army is concerned

 

[Mamoon]

There are Muslim and eastern governments where doing the same will lead to the funding of a military that will just kill other Muslims, but since you're not in the west, it's fine right?

Everyone compromises at some point. The point is to not judge others. People who are paying funding the killings of Muslims with their tax money are not in a position to criticize Muslims for joining western militaries.

Different people compromise at different levels because of circumstances. For example, it is easier for a self-righteous Muslim expat to leave the West than it is for a Saudi national to leave KSA because he disagrees with their atrocities in Yemen.

 

[LongHorn]

I think Saudis should stop war with Yemen but then again you need to understand Yemen is currently run by Iran.

Iran is threatening Saudis and hence what Saudis are doing can be considered as an act of self-defense.

This rhetoric is typical of an increasing number of Bengalis and Bengali origin people.

They are exposed to one breed of Imams who blindly support Saudi Arabia and always become sectarian when you point out Saudi's faults.

 

[kingusama92]

Look at it from another perspective.

Is it alright to join a Muslim nation's army and kill innocent Muslims?

Is it alright to join a Muslim nation's army and kill innocent people (of other religions/belief systems)?

Being in a Muslim army doesn't automatically cleanse you of all responsibility.

These are questions a potential soldier has to ask themselves whether they live in Canada, America, Iran, Pakistan or any other country. No matter which army you join, there are always the chances of getting orders like these from your superiors.

If you go back in history, you will see countless examples of Muslim armies slaughtering innocent people in other Muslim countries. Sometimes, in their own country (Pakistan/East Pakistan, Hazara Uprising in Afghanistan, Ta'if Massacre). Heck, you can look at the tensions between Muslim countries right now to see what they think about each other. They would happily send soldiers to destroy their Arab rivals without a second thought if given the opportunity.

 

[Tubs]

I very much dislike this hive mindset that Muslims seem to have. Muslims are individuals, not a monolith. Do what you want.

 

[Arya]

I don't get why an American Muslim should care more about middle eastern Muslims than an american. If there are such Muslims, they should be deported to live with their middle eastern brethren.

 

[Slog]

I don't get why an American Muslim should care more about middle eastern Muslims than an american. If there are such Muslims, they should be deported to live with their middle eastern brethren.

Why do Indian Americans who were born and raised in the west support India?

 

[Pakistanian]

I don't get why an American Muslim should care more about middle eastern Muslims than an american. If there are such Muslims, they should be deported to live with their middle eastern brethren.

Islam is universal, all Muslims believe in a universal brotherhood (at least in theory). It's the same reason why indian hindus feel a sense of brotherhood with members of the same caste in other countries as opposed to a low caste compatriot from the same country.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It is right if the person thinks it is right for him . Everything else is irrelevant . Plenty of Muslims were killed by muslim armies themselves. If Muslim Americans want to be part of the marines or whatever, it is totally his choice.

 

[Savak]

They don’t practically consider themselves American, they ARE American by birth & nobody can take that away from them. So why should anybody be surprised or offended by that?

Well their parents speak Urdu at home and have inculcated desi habits in them, they make sure they go to all Pakistani community events and they identify somewhat with Pakistan. I don't think its a bad thing, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan had a philosophy "If you can't beat them, then why not join them then?". It was Sir Syed's attitude and mindset which led to things changing in India for Muslims.

 

[JaDed]

Islam is universal, all Muslims believe in a universal brotherhood (at least in theory). It's the same reason why indian hindus feel a sense of brotherhood with members of the same caste in other countries as opposed to a low caste compatriot from the same country.

And you spoke to all Indians right? Apni theory mat jhaad.

Most Indians get along fine with other Indians irrespective of religion or caste , many of us work in IT and no one has such biases.

 

[Markhor]

It's an individual choice, you can serve in a non-combat role in the military or learn a trade.

One could justify joining a western military in a combat role if part of a mission to stop a genocide as was seen in Bosnia.

 

[dildilpak]

Well their parents speak Urdu at home and have inculcated desi habits in them, they make sure they go to all Pakistani community events and they identify somewhat with Pakistan. I don't think its a bad thing, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan had a philosophy "If you can't beat them, then why not join them then?". It was Sir Syed's attitude and mindset which led to things changing in India for Muslims.

I have had a similar upbringing to your cousins growing up, but that doesn’t make me a Pakistani. I am an American first & my allegiance is to this country, not Pakistan. I don’t owe anything to the Muslims around the world.

 

[JaDed]

I have had a similar upbringing to your cousins growing up, but that doesn’t make me a Pakistani. I am an American first & my allegiance is to this country, not Pakistan.

Your username is Ironical then.

 

[RajBan]

Islam is universal, all Muslims believe in a universal brotherhood (at least in theory). It's the same reason why indian hindus feel a sense of brotherhood with members of the same caste in other countries as opposed to a low caste compatriot from the same country.

Man, where did you get this generalized notion. While a section of Indian Hindu society is crazy about caste , it is not universal. Infact for many the language is important and caste or religion does not matter. And for many others none of it matter.

 

[dildilpak]

Your username is Ironical then.

Unfortunately created by my wife (who too uses this account) & stuck with it. Too lazy to create another profile

 

[WC-Passion]

Everyone compromises at some point. The point is to not judge others. People who are paying funding the killings of Muslims with their tax money are not in a position to criticize Muslims for joining western militaries.

Different people compromise at different levels because of circumstances. For example, it is easier for a self-righteous Muslim expat to leave the West than it is for a Saudi national to leave KSA because he disagrees with their atrocities in Yemen.

I do agree with the main point you're making. Judging Muslims here for joining the army is hypocritical, but at the same time it's very difficult to avoid paying tax towards military movements that are against any group of Muslims at present. Sure circumstances are different for some, but wherever you go it's fairly unavoidable. I guess people feel that, not joining the army and just paying the tax that you are forced to pay, is the least amount of "harm to Muslims" you can do in any given situation, but I see the issues with that line of thought.

 

[Itachi]

Seems like OP is in identity crisis. Conflict between what he should do as the "rules" states and what he wants to do.

Brother, take it as an advice from an elder one. Whatever you decide, it's high time. Otherwise this conflict will only grow bigger and bigger.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yea I don’t feel as strongly against US wars as you seem to against these wars by US and Britain

Why are you ok with US wars? Do you feel the need to show loyalty being a immigrant? There is no need to, many Americans oppose immoral US wars, you should do to since they have murdered hundreds of Pakistani children, if you don't care about other children.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Everyone compromises at some point. The point is to not judge others. People who are paying funding the killings of Muslims with their tax money are not in a position to criticize Muslims for joining western militaries.

Different people compromise at different levels because of circumstances. For example, it is easier for a self-righteous Muslim expat to leave the West than it is for a Saudi national to leave KSA because he disagrees with their atrocities in Yemen.

For some there is no need to compromise. Some live in lands they daily abuse, don't pay taxes, involved in corruption and also agree with outside powers attacking the land they live in.

 

[miandadrules]

What does it matter if it’s a Muslim army or not?

If it’s wrong to kill, it’s wrong to kill.

 

[liam26]

So it is haraam to join a Western Army and fighr against o

 

[Romali_rotti]

More and More I read threads here, it seems a lot of Muslims from the sub continent are not suited to live in the West. Why do some of you guys go to the West when you have so much doubts and issues with the West. Just stay in your 3rd world countries and be happy with, don't go searching for better life in countries you are unsure and doubtful about... Sub continental Muslims feel strongly about the Ummah of wait sorry I just remembered the Ughyur Muslims, I take that back... The Ummah seems to be only there in principle not practicality, Arabs looks down on the sub continental Muslims, so do the Iranians and whoever else. Pakistanis don't give 2 hoots about what China does to Ughyur Muslims but cry for the Palestinian Arabs and the Kashmiris lol are you all serious ?? ). YOU should join whichever army you want to, it has nothing to do with religion or your selective Ummah....

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I could see India rising to be a threat to British interests in the not too distant future - don't laugh - so I suppose it would be my patriotic duty to volunteer to fight any such nation if they threatened the livelihoods of my fellow Brits. I would have to give it serious thought.

 

[mustang]

More and More I read threads here, it seems a lot of Muslims from the sub continent are not suited to live in the West. Why do some of you guys go to the West when you have so much doubts and issues with the West. Just stay in your 3rd world countries and be happy with, don't go searching for better life in countries you are unsure and doubtful about... Sub continental Muslims feel strongly about the Ummah of wait sorry I just remembered the Ughyur Muslims, I take that back... The Ummah seems to be only there in principle not practicality, Arabs looks down on the sub continental Muslims, so do the Iranians and whoever else. Pakistanis don't give 2 hoots about what China does to Ughyur Muslims but cry for the Palestinian Arabs and the Kashmiris lol are you all serious ?? ). YOU should join whichever army you want to, it has nothing to do with religion or your selective Ummah....

Well said! "If you are immigrating into my country, you better show your loyalty here, else go back where you came from" ... my 0.02.

People here seem to have such divisive opinions based on Islam and then wonder why some countries have a not so friendly opinion of muslim immigrants. Sad part is some of the good muslim people who would be patriotic to the countries they immigrate to would also be affected because of some bad apples.

 

[mustang]

I could see India rising to be a threat to British interests in the not too distant future - don't laugh - so I suppose it would be my patriotic duty to volunteer to fight any such nation if they threatened the livelihoods of my fellow Brits. I would have to give it serious thought.

Will you hold the same fervor if Pakistan rising to be a threat to British interests (don't laugh) and take up arms against Pakistan?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Will you hold the same fervor if Pakistan rising to be a threat to British interests (don't laugh) and take up arms against Pakistan?

Realistically there is no chance of Pakistan being a threat to the UK in the near future, either militarily or economically. Perhaps were they on an upward trajectory as posed by India then it would be something to consider.