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Is James Pattinson the Sylvester Clarke of this generation?

Bhaijaan

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He hasn't played a lot of international cricket but manh would agree that he is arguably the most gifted and watchable fiery pacers of this generation.

He is built like a tank, has a great action, generates a lot of pace and bounce and is a terror to batsmen when bowling at full steam.

Its just sad that we have not got to see much of him.

Patttinson at his best is better than Cummins IMO
 
The moderators have spoiled this thread by correcting his name!

I was going to say “England’s Darren Pattinson, no. His brother, Australia’s James Pattinson, maybe. Robert, just no”.

He is similar to Sylvester Clarke, but Clarke also had the express bouncer that he blatantly chucked, which was lethal.

Clarke was measured at The Wanderers in South Aftica by the Transvaal Police, using their latest speed gun.

His fastest ball in a four over spell was 162K. And his slowest ball - yes, slowest - was 157K.

That’s quite a lot quicker than any of the Pattinsons!

Pattinson is a far superior bowler though. He doesn’t chuck, and he gets lateral movement that Clarke never obtained.
 
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He hasn't played a lot of international cricket but manh would agree that he is arguably the most gifted and watchable fiery pacers of this generation.

He is built like a tank, has a great action, generates a lot of pace and bounce and is a terror to batsmen when bowling at full steam.

Its just sad that we have not got to see much of him.

Patttinson at his best is better than Cummins IMO

There is almost no comparison. Clarke had a very awkward open action and was 150k with steep bounce. Pattinson is a lot more conventional action.
 
Patti had an early injury.

He was 150 kph against India in 2014. Please check me on that.
 
He is alright but australia is pretty strict when it comes to picking bowlers. If 2 bowlers are of similar level then they will choose the taller guy for bowling.

hazelwood vs patto. So hazelwood being 6'5 will obviously get picked over 6 foot patto. Plus patto isn't even that fast. 135-137 is his average speed. Same as hazelwood.
 
I actually got a little emotional watching Cummins and Pattinson bowl in tandem this morning on Day 3 at the MCG.

I’ve made no secret this last decade of my admiration for Cummins, Pattinson and Paine and my sadness as injury seemed to destroy their careers.

It’s been hard watching more limited bowlers like Hazlewood and Starc get all the plaudits. And it’s a joy watching Cummins and Pattinson bowl together.

I was at the Gabba in December 2011 when Pattinson made his Test debut against the Kiwis. Only Lyon, Starc, Taylor, Warner and Williamson survive from that match.

Pattinson took 5-27 in the second innings and engineered a 9 wicket win.

It was awesome, and I’ve missed him!
 
He is alright but australia is pretty strict when it comes to picking bowlers. If 2 bowlers are of similar level then they will choose the taller guy for bowling.

hazelwood vs patto. So hazelwood being 6'5 will obviously get picked over 6 foot patto. Plus patto isn't even that fast. 135-137 is his average speed. Same as hazelwood.
It’s largely because the pitches usually are shaved of grass and the Kookaburra doesn’t seam or swing.

So bounce and lift are the major weapons. I know I keep saying it, but I actually don’t like it!
 
Sylvester Clarke was a brute, he was rapid, remember him in the lancashire league, so as for comparison for agression and hostility then there's no comparison
 
I actually got a little emotional watching Cummins and Pattinson bowl in tandem this morning on Day 3 at the MCG.

I’ve made no secret this last decade of my admiration for Cummins, Pattinson and Paine and my sadness as injury seemed to destroy their careers.

It’s been hard watching more limited bowlers like Hazlewood and Starc get all the plaudits. And it’s a joy watching Cummins and Pattinson bowl together.

I was at the Gabba in December 2011 when Pattinson made his Test debut against the Kiwis. Only Lyon, Starc, Taylor, Warner and Williamson survive from that match.

Pattinson took 5-27 in the second innings and engineered a 9 wicket win.

It was awesome, and I’ve missed him!

We are both emotional men with feelings.

When i watched Pattinson bowling after so long i felt like how Kareena felt seeing Hritik in K3G bro.

It is indeed heart warming seeing Cummins and Pattinson bowling together. These two should have been the Ambrose/Walsh of this generation.

Alas!
 
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We are both emotional men with feelings.

When i watched Pattinson bowling after so long i felt like how Kareena felt seeing Hritik in K3G bro.

It is indeed heart warming seeing Cummins and Pattinson bowling together. These two should have been the Ambrose/Walsh of this generation.

Alas!
Lovely post, but I’m 50 years old, and I have to say that Ambrose/Walsh only happened because Ian Bishop was never the same after he fractured his spine.

Bishop Ambrose. Now THAT was a stupendous attack!

I was at Wellington in 1995 when the West Indies declared at 660-5 and then Courtney Walsh took 7-37 and 6-18.

And even then, I found myself thinking “What a shame about Bishop - if he was his old self he’d have been the star.”

I think that’s why the return of Cummins and Pattinson means so much to me. And Paine.
 
Lovely post, but I’m 50 years old, and I have to say that Ambrose/Walsh only happened because Ian Bishop was never the same after he fractured his spine.

Bishop Ambrose. Now THAT was a stupendous attack!

I was at Wellington in 1995 when the West Indies declared at 660-5 and then Courtney Walsh took 7-37 and 6-18.

And even then, I found myself thinking “What a shame about Bishop - if he was his old self he’d have been the star.”

I think that’s why the return of Cummins and Pattinson means so much to me. And Paine.

Big Courtney night have been bit less pacier than peak Ambo or Bishu but he was no Franklyn Rose bro.
 
We are both emotional men with feelings.

When i watched Pattinson bowling after so long i felt like how Kareena felt seeing Hritik in K3G bro.

It is indeed heart warming seeing Cummins and Pattinson bowling together. These two should have been the Ambrose/Walsh of this generation.

Alas!

Big Courtney night have been bit less pacier than peak Ambo or Bishu but he was no Franklyn Rose bro.

I loved Courtney Walsh and he was majestic in that Wellington Test.

I guess I’m just saying that it always hurts to see an exceptional talent not be fulfilled.
 
Patti had an early injury.

He was 150 kph against India in 2014. Please check me on that.

Poor bloke had about 4 years of early injuries, that's why he's never a 150k bowler again. He can only do high 130s/low 140s now.

He's fun to watch, a real goer.

He'll play a fair bit of cricket if anyone else is injured or potentially as a bowling allrounder in India - his batting came along with all his injured years, he could still play club cricket and just bat.
 
An odd comparison.Clarke hardly had any kind of pivot. Fast swinging arms though. I still doubt he was as quick as it is being claimed. Quick in that era. Pattinson is a bit like Geoff Lawson minus the lovely open chested action.
 
In the 80s series i think Len Pascoe was the quickest from both sides. Generally in old vidoes supposedly express fast bowlers look slower. Not with Len Pascoe. He looks quicker even in old videos.
 
An odd comparison.Clarke hardly had any kind of pivot. Fast swinging arms though. I still doubt he was as quick as it is being claimed. Quick in that era. Pattinson is a bit like Geoff Lawson minus the lovely open chested action.

Sylvester Clarke was fast and nasty, remember speed guns first came in South Africaclarke at 40+ was bowling 140k which is bumrahs pace
 
An odd comparison.Clarke hardly had any kind of pivot. Fast swinging arms though. I still doubt he was as quick as it is being claimed. Quick in that era. Pattinson is a bit like Geoff Lawson minus the lovely open chested action.

Lawson was a swing bowler though. Patto still has the attitude & style of a genuine quick.

As for Clarke- he probably was that quick (maybe illegally)- I've heard his name come up in several interviews with ex-players from that era about "who was the fastest you faced?"- "Was there a bowler who was really nasty to face?". He comes up aside from the big names prompted, usually they faced him in county or a tour game and say they don't care to repeat it!
 
In the 80s series i think Len Pascoe was the quickest from both sides. Generally in old vidoes supposedly express fast bowlers look slower. Not with Len Pascoe. He looks quicker even in old videos.

Lenny was quick- he probably had a summer like may do where it all came together for pace. But since he played for the same Sydney club & the same state team (back in the days international players played both of those regularly & often) & national team, it was pretty easy for all to judge that Thommo was a whole other category of pace higher again.
 
I think that yorker to Sehwag was 150kph.

I remember that series and Pattinson's pace because even we had Umesh Yadav and Ishant Sharma clicking in 150s in that series.

Ishant Sharma was clocked at 154 kph in Australia in 2012.

But i remember Pattinson had bowled faster. His fastest was near around 155 kph.
 
Sylvester Clarke was fast and nasty, remember speed guns first came in South Africaclarke at 40+ was bowling 140k which is bumrahs pace

Yea. I have heard all those folk stories about him at the county level. He had a quick arm action bit like Akram. Colin croft was quick as well. Also a bit of shoulder into it. An unpredictable bowler as well. But they had an array of genuine fast bowlers who were more effective. Winston Davis, Wayne Daniel later on Patrick Patterson. Even Winston Benjamin was quick with a funky action. Patterson was deadly in the mid 80s.
 
I remember that series and Pattinson's pace because even we had Umesh Yadav and Ishant Sharma clicking in 150s in that series.

Ishant Sharma was clocked at 154 kph in Australia in 2012.

But i remember Pattinson had bowled faster. His fastest was near around 155 kph.

Average speed of Ishant was 145k, Umesh's was 144k lol I had a lot of suspicion about clock speed in that series. I think they record the highest of the range instead of median That is why the average speed of every bowler looked higher.
 
Lawson was a swing bowler though. Patto still has the attitude & style of a genuine quick.

As for Clarke- he probably was that quick (maybe illegally)- I've heard his name come up in several interviews with ex-players from that era about "who was the fastest you faced?"- "Was there a bowler who was really nasty to face?". He comes up aside from the big names prompted, usually they faced him in county or a tour game and say they don't care to repeat it!

I agree. Lawson was not known for quick stuffs. But he had this nice action you would want to imitate.
 
Yea. I have heard all those folk stories about him at the county level. He had a quick arm action bit like Akram. Colin croft was quick as well. Also a bit of shoulder into it. An unpredictable bowler as well. But they had an array of genuine fast bowlers who were more effective. Winston Davis, Wayne Daniel later on Patrick Patterson. Even Winston Benjamin was quick with a funky action. Patterson was deadly in the mid 80s.

Yes they had so many quicks, definitely patterson was unblievable in the mid 80's, he was scaryquick
 
Average speed of Ishant was 145k, Umesh's was 144k lol I had a lot of suspicion about clock speed in that series. I think they record the highest of the range instead of median That is why the average speed of every bowler looked higher.

They were blowing quite hot though. They were phenomenal in some spells early on.
 
Injury ruining the early part of his career was a cricketing tragedy. Could have been one of the all time test great had he been fit for most of his career.
 
What a great bowling lineup we have 3 bowlers who can bowl 150 all day, all three give their heart and soul, and then you have Hazelwood who bowls 140 and can bowl 140 even in his fourth spell.
 
What a great bowling lineup we have 3 bowlers who can bowl 150 all day, all three give their heart and soul, and then you have Hazelwood who bowls 140 and can bowl 140 even in his fourth spell.

Lol, bar starc I don't see any other Australian bowler bowling 150, Cummins 140, Pattinson 145, hazlewood 140

Flip that to England, archer 150+, woods 150+, olly stone 145, stokes 145
 
69% of Pattinson’s wickets bat in the Top Five of the order.

51% of Starc’s wickets bat in the Top Five.
 
Lol, bar starc I don't see any other Australian bowler bowling 150, Cummins 140, Pattinson 145, hazlewood 140

Flip that to England, archer 150+, woods 150+, olly stone 145, stokes 145

oily stone and wood are dud cannon straight fodders of the highest order. Doesn't count.

varun aaron bowls even faster than them. Doesn't mean he should be mentioned along the likes of bumrah shami etc.

Anyway average speed is what matters and I agree lol for australia, barring starc all bowl below 138 on average including cummins.

England have archer who bowls at 142 on average.

pakistan have shaheen who bowls 140 on average. naseem at 141.
 
69% of Pattinson’s wickets bat in the Top Five of the order.

51% of Starc’s wickets bat in the Top Five.

One of the reasons why people have a soft spot for Pattinson apart from many others is also that he backs himself to bowl full length.

Its one of the best sights in cricket to see a speed demon bowling full length. Shirt pitch as Shoaib Akhtar always states is mostly used to terrorise batsmen to back foot, eventually most of the wickets are on full, slightly full length.

After Shane Bond, Dale Styen definitely James Pattinson is the most threatening full length bowler
 
Pattinson has outbowled every other pacer in this test match.

And the pace line up in this test :-

Starc
Cummins
Hazzlewood
Wagner
Southee
Boult


This is quite an achievement for Pattinson returning to Playing XI


He's been missed badly.
 
I agree. Lawson was not known for quick stuffs. But he had this nice action you would want to imitate.

Lawson from 1982-84 was a fast bowler, one of the best in the world and getting the new ball ahead of Thomson. In 1985 in England he was slowed down a bit by a viral infection. In 1989 he was fast medium.
 
Pattinson vs NZ in 2011-12
https://youtu.be/18LkN8xSdMA


8 years later he comes back and outbowls 6 other top quality pacers against the same opponent

And he's only played 19 tests since :facepalm:

If this is not tragic what is
 
One of the reasons why people have a soft spot for Pattinson apart from many others is also that he backs himself to bowl full length.

Its one of the best sights in cricket to see a speed demon bowling full length. Shirt pitch as Shoaib Akhtar always states is mostly used to terrorise batsmen to back foot, eventually most of the wickets are on full, slightly full length.

After Shane Bond, Dale Styen definitely James Pattinson is the most threatening full length bowler

bumrah.

I agree though except the speed demon part. dude bowls 137 on average.
 
oily stone and wood are dud cannon straight fodders of the highest order. Doesn't count.

varun aaron bowls even faster than them. Doesn't mean he should be mentioned along the likes of bumrah shami etc.

Anyway average speed is what matters and I agree lol for australia, barring starc all bowl below 138 on average including cummins.

England have archer who bowls at 142 on average.

pakistan have shaheen who bowls 140 on average. naseem at 141.

Olly stone bowls at 90 mph and is not up and down straight, shami is lively fast medium and so is bumrah, no way arun bowls quicker than woods
 
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Patterson turned Gatting into a Panda with one blow lol One English interviewer asked him "where did hurt you" hahaha. Few years back i read this very very informative article on English tour to West Indies.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...or-west-indies-cricket-1986-patrick-patterson

It was Marshall in fact. Not many batters wore visors then. Gatt shaped to hook but the ball got big on him quicker than expected.

Marshall picked the ball up and found part of Gatt’s nasal septum stuck in the seam. He dropped it and nearly threw up.

This had a big effect on the series as Gatt was the best England batter at the time and in prime form. I don’t think England really wanted to play after that.
 
Olly stone bowls at 90 mph and is not up and down straight, shami is lively fast medium and so is bumrah, no way arun bowls quicker than woods
aaron 100%bowls quicker than wood.

bowls 145 on average.

I am saying crap players don't count. oily stone and wood don't count because they are terrible. There are other terrible bowlers that bowl fast like Aaron, nathu singh, wahab riaz etc. Yes they are fast but ineffective.


bumrah bowled 142 on average in the last series vs australia btw. He can turn it up if he wants to.
 
Lawson from 1982-84 was a fast bowler, one of the best in the world and getting the new ball ahead of Thomson. In 1985 in England he was slowed down a bit by a viral infection. In 1989 he was fast medium.

No. He was given the new ball because he was a swing bowler, same as Alderman would have been in English conditions. Made no sense to give him an old ball. Thommo was THommo regardless.

I've never heard anyone, including Geoff, refer to him as anything other than "lively" or "sharp" in pace. Not "quick, express, rapid, fast" or anything of the sort. He was never flat out fast, wasn't his game.

I'm sure he was quicker when he was young but all bowlers are.
 
aaron 100%bowls quicker than wood.

bowls 145 on average.

I am saying crap players don't count. oily stone and wood don't count because they are terrible. There are other terrible bowlers that bowl fast like Aaron, nathu singh, wahab riaz etc. Yes they are fast but ineffective.


bumrah bowled 142 on average in the last series vs australia btw. He can turn it up if he wants to.

Olly stone has a high skill set, what's unfortunate is he keeps getting injured
 
No. He was given the new ball because he was a swing bowler, same as Alderman would have been in English conditions. Made no sense to give him an old ball. Thommo was THommo regardless.

I've never heard anyone, including Geoff, refer to him as anything other than "lively" or "sharp" in pace. Not "quick, express, rapid, fast" or anything of the sort. He was never flat out fast, wasn't his game.

I'm sure he was quicker when he was young but all bowlers are.

I wouldn't say he is a swing bowler. That was Terry Aldermann. Lawson back of the length hit the deck bowler with a bit of movement. He was pacy enough to trouble batsmen with short stuffs.

 
A few mistaken comments about Geoff Lawson here, which I'd like to clear up.

Australia's pace attack was in decline by the time of Botham's Ashes in 1981.

Dennis Lillee was down from a 145 bowler to the mid-130's.

Len Pascoe was gone - he'd always relied upon pace, and it was gone.

Jeff Thomson was the same: he got great lift in the 1982-83 Ashes but his pace was down to the 140's, and he had absolutely no swing or seam. By the 1985 Ashes he was bowling in the 130's and it was embarrassing.

Rodney Hogg's pace was gone too.

Terry Alderman was a very talented swing bowler, but his pace was in the high 120's and he only really clicked in England, where the conditions suited him.

Then Geoff Lawson had a terrific purple patch for 3 years, starting with the home Ashes in 1982-83.

And there were some similarities, believe it or not, with James Pattinson. Lawson, like Pattinson now, operated in the 138-142 pace range, and bowled significantly more slightly short deliveries than Terry Alderman, to push the batsman onto the back foot.

But Lawson had lovely away-swing, and he would throw in what seemed like an overpitched half-volley just outside off-stump. The batsman would go for an expansive cover drive and give catching practice to the slips.

It was quite similar to how Pattinson gets his wickets, and like Pattinson most of them were top order batsmen.

For those three years, with Imran Khan out with shin splints, Lawson and Hadlee were spoken of in the same breath as the world's second best bowler behind Malcolm Marshall. Ahead of Holding, Garner, Botham and Kapil Dev.

Unfortunately Lawson suffered significant injuries and lost his sharpness, and he was never the same bowler again. By the time of the 1989 Ashes he was recalled and did well, but was bowling at around 130-135K, only slightly quicker than Terry Alderman.
 
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No. He was given the new ball because he was a swing bowler, same as Alderman would have been in English conditions. Made no sense to give him an old ball. Thommo was THommo regardless.

I've never heard anyone, including Geoff, refer to him as anything other than "lively" or "sharp" in pace. Not "quick, express, rapid, fast" or anything of the sort. He was never flat out fast, wasn't his game.

I'm sure he was quicker when he was young but all bowlers are.

I remember Imran calling him a “superb fast bowler” prior to the 1985 Ashes.

Looking at that 82/3 footage he is not as fast as I recall but he could still hurry good batters and his shorter one still looks quick.
 
Pattinson was a monster when he debuted. That pace and movement into the right hander 🔥. It's unfortunate what injuries can do to fast bowlers.
 
Australian fast bowler James Pattinson, once one of the most feared bowlers in world cricket, has retired from international cricket.

The 31-year-old Victorian, who made his Test debut for Australia as a tearaway right armer, has made the decision to step away from international cricket to focus on family, playing for his state and helping develop the next generation of fast bowlers.

The right-armer played 21 Test Matches, 15 One-Day Internationals and four T20 Internationals for Australia. He has played 76 first class games for Victoria. He took 81 wickets at 26.33 in his Test career and has 302 wickets at 22.52 in first class cricket.

“Leading into pre-season I really wanted to give the Ashes a crack but in the end I haven’t had the preparation I would have liked heading into the coming season,” Pattinson, who will miss the opening round of fixtures for Victoria through injury, said.

“If I was to be part of the Ashes I would need to do myself and my team-mates justice. I didn’t want to be in a position of battling with my body when you need to be 100 per cent fit and ready to go at any time. That would not be fair to myself or the team.

“It was then I felt that instead of trying to play at the very highest level, knowing I have only got three or four years of cricket left, I would focus more on Victoria, helping the young guys develop, perhaps some cricket in England and spending more time with my family."

Chair of the National Selection (NSP) George Bailey said Pattinson’s passion, drive and energy in his time within the Australian team was one of his greatest strengths, along with his ability with the ball.

“Everyone who has played with Patto has thrived on his competitive nature and the sheer pride he takes in playing for his country,” Bailey said.

“James epitomises what it means to play for Australia, the sacrifices you make and the hurdles you have to overcome on the journey.

“But his record speaks for itself, he has been a wonderful player. We would have loved to have seen a lot more of him over the years.”

Pattinson said he felt at ease with his decision to step away from the international game.

“Now I have made the decision I am hoping to really enjoy the last three or four years of cricket,” he said.

“I have had a great time over the years and thank Cricket Australia for the opportunities, the faith they have put in me and of course all of my team-mates through the journey.

“They have instilled a lot of trust in me especially at times when I have been injured and helped me through those times. For that I am very grateful.”

Pattinson played his first Test against New Zealand in 2011 and announced himself on the world stage with 5/27 in the second innings of Australia’s nine-wicket win. He was named Man of the Series with fourteen wickets in the two-Test series.

He repeated the effort in his next Test against India at the MCG with 6-108. After a short injury lay-off he returned against India with another five-wicket haul in Chepauk, the only time an Australian fast bowler has done so at the ground.

The dose was repeated at his next outing in 2015 against the West Indies with another five-wicket performance, taking 5-27 which equalled his best career figures.

He played a further six Test matches after but was restricted due to a number of injuries including back surgery and the strength Australia’s pace bowling stocks during this period.

Somewhat fittingly his last Test was against New Zealand in Sydney, the side he made his debut against a decade earlier.
 
A waste of an international career, always felt that he was the most talented Australian fast bowler out of those that debuted at the beginning of the last decade.

Another case of what could have been but for injuries.
 
I had not heard about Sylvester Clarke before. You learn something new everyday in the forum!

Coming to Clarke it's not surprising decision, he was not in scheme of Australia for sometime now. What an exciting bowler he surely was, raw and fearsome pace and bowled some famous spells.
 
This might not actually be as final as it sounds.

Justin Langer has made clear that he wants taller quicks than Pattinson and that he will always be a reserve.

But Langer is a dead man walking. And it’s not out of the question that Jason Gillespie will want Pattinson back when he takes over as the coach in the next 6-12 months.
 
See this is the problem with your posts, people think you are HIGH.

It’s a matter of record - the Transvaal Police measured Clarke with their own speed gun.

24 deliveries.

Slowest delivery was 157k!
 
This might not actually be as final as it sounds.

Justin Langer has made clear that he wants taller quicks than Pattinson and that he will always be a reserve.

But Langer is a dead man walking. And it’s not out of the question that Jason Gillespie will want Pattinson back when he takes over as the coach in the next 6-12 months.

Come on. You and I both know only one team and board allows people to walk back on retirements.
2 points for guessing correctly.
Hint : CA is not one of them.
 
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