IS Mega Discussion Thread

[CricketCartoons]

And let's not jinx that shall we?

Wow, for someone who does not believe in predictions, you surely take jinxes seriously. Ah I see, people change their principles from thread to thread.

 

[Varun]

Wow, for someone who does not believe in predictions, you surely take jinxes seriously. Ah I see, people change their principles from thread to thread.

All in a day's work on the internet, sweetheart. *blows kiss*

 

[Fallen King]

Another poor attempt of derailing thread for your own agenda and hate against IK and PTI. MalikMohsin you are getting exposed on PP everyday!

Is it your way of saying that i should behave like Imranistan; lie, resort to personal insult, engage character assassination, and pretend to be Indian? Don't tell me you are actually justifying his action - pretending to be Indian? It is one thing to back your member, but that doesn't mean ignore whatever is happening in front of you. He pretended to be Indian; happen to be one of Imranistan. Seriously, this cannot go lower than that. Why pretend to be Indian if not to troll?

The credibility of Imranistan is going down very fast.

 

[Strike Rate]

Is it your way of saying that i should behave like Imranistan; lie, resort to personal insult, engage character assassination, and pretend to be Indian? Don't tell me you are actually justifying his action - pretending to be Indian? It is one thing to back your member, but that doesn't mean ignore whatever is happening in front of you. He pretended to be Indian; happen to be one of Imranistan. Seriously, this cannot go lower than that. Why pretend to be Indian if not to troll?

The credibility of Imranistan is going down very fast.

And Mr Genius (actually famous for using religion card to win arguments) do tell me what Imran PTI or Insafian etc got to with ISIS thread? If he is pretending to be indian or whatever whats the connection with PTI or IK? It's your habit of derailing thread to promote your agendas most of us already know.

 

[Fallen King]

And Mr Genius (actually famous for using religion card to win arguments) do tell me what Imran PTI or Insafian etc got to with ISIS thread? If he is pretending to be indian or whatever whats the connection with PTI or IK? It's your habit of derailing thread to promote your agendas most of us already know.

It is very pretty much connected to Imranistan. Given the credibility of Imranistan, it is not surprise why one of Imranistan pretended to be Indian. I am stating the fact. Anyhow, you are right. I am derailing this thread started by [MENTION=52376]Saeed[/MENTION] who pretended to be Indian.

I am done. Gonna stick to topic now.

^ Regarding Religion card, that's the best Imranistan can do - lie lie lie. Those who accused me of using Religion card never to be found let alone to provide the evidence for allegation. Seriously, i am not surprised you being one of Imranistan is lying continuously. It makes sense you accuse me of using Religion card while you are breaking two of ethics of Islam - lying and making grave accusation without evidence [regarding Religion card].

 

[Strike Rate]

you are right. I am derailing this thread started

Good for once you admit your mistake

 

[Fallen King]

Good for once you admit your mistake

I admit my mistake i derail. Do you admit that you are liar? You just accused me of using religion card without evidence. The character of Imranistan; resort to personal insult, engage character assassination, lie, accuse without evidence, and pretend to be Indian..

 

[Strike Rate]

I admit my mistake i derail. Do you admit that you are liar? You just accused me of using religion card without evidence. The character of Imranistan; resort to personal insult, engage character assassination, lie, accuse without evidence, and pretend to be Indian..

Keep crying we all know your history on PP and the typical religion card you use in arguments to win. Nothing new here call me a liar but that doesn't change the fact you got a history of using religion card to win arguments when you dont have have any thing to defend.

 

[moumotta]

I still remember the disaffected people from Africa amd Asia joining the British empire and the French Empire in the first two world wars, they must have been looking for a quick and short route too

Volunteers fighting in world wars. Didn't know about it.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Volunteers fighting in world wars. Didn't know about it.

The Indian Army which fought in WW2 was the largest volunteer army in history numbering 2.5m.

 

[moumotta]

The Indian Army which fought in WW2 was the largest volunteer army in history numbering 2.5m.

You mean they weren't paid salaries and allowances. How mean of the British.

 

[Thivagar]

The Indian Army which fought in WW2 was the largest volunteer army in history numbering 2.5m.

He was being sarcastic bro

 

[Gabbar Singh]

So Turkey have been bombing the Kurdish PKK today but are refusing to bomb ISIS.

 

[OZGOD]

So Turkey have been bombing the Kurdish PKK today but are refusing to bomb ISIS.

They are probably hoping that ISIS take care of the Kurds for them before they start bombing ISIS. Remember Turkey funded all these extremist jihadist groups against Assad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Saeed]

What is wrong with turkey. Their membership in NATO should be questioned because of this.

 

[Buffet]

Six Pak Taliban commanders declare allegiance to IS chief

PESHAWAR Six top commanders of the outlawed Tehreeke Taliban Pakistan, including spokesman Shahidullah Shahid, have announced their allegiance to Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi leader of the militant group what is called the Islamic State (IS) and an allegiance statement was also issued in this regard.

Shahidullah Shahid in the statement said he along with five TTP district chiefs have announced their allegiance to IS, also known as Daish, and would be their lead fighters in Pakistan. The statement did not elaborate on the stance of the six on Mullah Omar, chief of the Afghan Taliban widely regarded by militant groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan as the Amirul Momineen (leader of the faithful).

“I am confirming my allegiance to Amirul Momineen Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi and would abide by all his decisions, whatever is the order, and whatsoever the circumstances, I shall be loyal to him and obey his orders,” Shaidullah Shahid said in a statement.

Shahidullah said he along with TTP amir for Orakzai Agency Saeed Khan, TTP’s Kurram Agency chapter chief Daulat Khan, Fateh Gul Zaman, who heads TTP in Khyber Agency, TTP’s Peshawar amir Mufti Hassan and TTP’s Hangu chief Khalid Mansoor, was announcing allegiance to Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi Al Qureshi Al Hussaini.

Shahidullah further said that the statement was on his and the five commanders’ behalf and had nothing to do with TTP.

He added that TTP chief Mullah Fazlluah had extended his support to Al Baghdadi but had not announced allegiance to Daish. How will the decision of the six TTP commanders be viewed and taken by Fazlullah whose allegiance currently lies with Mullah Omar is still a matter of speculation but the announcement comes at a time when the outlawed group is already experiencing fissures and is the main target of a military operation in North Waziristan.

Shahidullah further said that he had already extended his allegiance three times to Al Baghdadi and it was the fourth time that he and his associates were extending allegiance to the IS chief.

Shahidullah said he first announced support to Al Bagdadi before the latter’s announcement of Khilafat, the second time in last Ramadhan through Abu Huda Sudani, a third time through Abu Al Khitab Shami through telephone and now again. With the IS trying to make inroads into South Asia, there are concerns about further turmoil in the region.

http://www.omantribune.com/index.php?page=news&id=176654&heading=Pakistan

 

[Buffet]

Look at Belgium and Netherlands strange numbers because the population of these Europeans countries is even less than Australia .

Yes, Numbers are massive considering how tiny they are.

 

[Buffet]

Can't help but draw the parallel between Turkey vis-à-vis ISIS and Pakistan vis-à-vis Taliban. Read this editorial a few days ago which talked about the same. A warning for Turkey to clean its house or be prepared to go down the path of "Pakistanization".

It's not at the same scale but you are right about both situations looking bit similar. Turkey is doing so well and it will be a shame if they go down due to this non-sense. It takes decades to build any country. Intentionally allowing terrorists to form a base in any country is a huge mistake by any stretch. If left unchecked, sooner or later, Turkey will be in trouble. It never ends well.

 

[Saeed]

Won't be surprised if news comes that most of these TTP khawrij are already in Syria and Iraq

 

[Varun]

Can't help but draw the parallel between Turkey vis-à-vis ISIS and Pakistan vis-à-vis Taliban. Read this editorial a few days ago which talked about the same. A warning for Turkey to clean its house or be prepared to go down the path of "Pakistanization".

A very good point. Creating one of these Islamic terror groups is like laying a snake egg. Only when you want to vacuum it ten years later, you encounter a colony of cobras and the whole world hates you for it.

 

[OZGOD]

Don't listen to CNN, FOX ********. CNN and FOX are known to quote things that haven't been said. Im not defending ISIS. See if this statement was officially released by the ISIS. Remember when Algore was declared the winner of 2000 US presidential election and then FOX And CNN came with George W Bush as the winner ? CNN and FOX investors have many investment in US arms manufacturing companies. They always want to sell war. I dare you to watch FOX or CNN news for a week at least 1hour a week, you will go nuts if you have any kind of background knowledge in world politics.

I managed to get a copy of Dabiq's 4th edition and there is an article called "Slavery By The Hour" which is where ISIS details how their fighters kidnapped and distributed Yazidi women as slave concubines, as well as their view of the justification for slavery. It's fascinating reading but as I'm not Muslim and haven't really studied the Quran I don't know how accurate their interpretation is.

To summarise:

- it's ok to enslave the Yazidi women as they are neither people of the book nor apostates
- slavery was practised in the Prophet's day which justifies it being done today
- sex slavery and taking concubines helps men reduce sexual sin as they can have fornicate with their concubine without guilt so they won't be tempted to fornicate with other women outside marriage

Exact quotes from ISIS's publication Dabiq in blue.
-------------------------

Several observations on this IS article:

1) The campaign to enslave Yazidi women is genocidal in that it is part of a greater effort to end the existence of the Yazidi people:

The article states that the existence of the Yazidis is something for which God will judge Muslims:

Upon conquering the region of Sinjar in Wilāyat Nīnawā, the Islamic State faced a population of Yazidis, a pagan minority existent for ages in regions of Iraq and Shām. Their continual existence to this day is a matter that Muslims should question as they will be asked about it on Judgment Day, considering that Allah had revealed Āyat as-Sayf (the verse of the sword) over 1400 years ago.

The Islamic State also see the enslavement project as a means of forcing Yazidis to renounce their identity and convert to Islam:

Many of the mushrik women and children have willingly accepted Islam and now race to practice it with evident sincerity after their exit from the darkness of shirk.

Rasūlullāh (sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said, “Allah marvels at a people who enter Jannah in chains” [reported by al-Bukhārī on the authority of Abū Hurayrah]. The hadīth commentators mentioned that this refers to people entering Islam as slaves and then entering Jannah.

Abū Hurayrah (radiyallāhu ‘anh) said while commenting on Allah’s words, {You are the best nation produced for mankind} [Āli ‘Imrān: 110], “You are the best people for people. You bring them with chains around their necks, until they enter Islam” [Sahīh al-Bukhāri].

2) The Islamic State differentiates between a) People of the Book (non-Islamic religions receiving some rights and protection), b) religious groups that were originally Muslim but that have apostatized, and c) religious groups that were “originally polytheistic:”

Prior to the taking of Sinjar, Sharī’ah students in the Islamic State were tasked to research the Yazidis to determine if they should be treated as an originally mushrik group or one that originated as Muslims and then apostatized, due to many of the related Islamic rulings that would apply to the group, its individuals, and their families. Because of the Arabic terminologies used by this group either to describe themselves or their beliefs, some contemporary Muslim scholars have classified them as possibly an apostate sect, not an originally mushrik religion, but upon further research, it was determined that this group is one that existed since the pre-Islamic jāhiliyyah, but became “Islamized” by the surrounding Muslim population, language, and culture, although they never accepted Islam nor claimed to have adopted it. The apparent origin of the religion is found in the Magianism of ancient Persia, but reinterpreted with elements of Sabianism, Judaism, and Christianity, and ultimately expressed in the heretical vocabulary of extreme Sufism.

Accordingly, the Islamic State dealt with this group as the majority of fuqahā’ have indicated how mushrikīn should be dealt with. Unlike the Jews and Christians, there was no room for jizyah payment. Also, their women could be enslaved unlike female apostates who the majority of the fuqahā’ say cannot be enslaved and can only be given an ultimatum to repent or face the sword.

3) The IS article justifies their enslavement of polytheist women through their interpretation of the practice of the early Islamic community:

The article invokes the practice of khums originating with the earliest battles of Islam in which 1/5 of the war booty was set aside for the Prophet Mohammed (i.e. the “state”):

After capture, the Yazidi women and children were then divided according to the Sharī’ah amongst the fighters of the Islamic State who participated in the Sinjar operations, after one fifth of the slaves were transferred to the Islamic State’s authority to be divided as khums.

The enslaved Yazidi families are now sold by the Islamic State soldiers as the mushrikīn were sold by the Companions (radiyallāhu ‘anhum) before them. Many well-known rulings are observed, including the prohibition of separating a mother from her young children.

From the Islamic State’s point of view, any Muslim who tries to interpret the practice of the early Islamic community in a different way, in order to condemn the practice of slavery, speaks in direct contradiction to the Qur’an and the Prophet and has therefore left Islam:

Before Shaytān reveals his doubts to the weak-minded and weak hearted, one should remember that enslaving the families of the kuffār and taking their women as concubines is a firmly established aspect of the Sharī’ah that if one were to deny or mock, he would be denying or mocking the verses of the Qur’ān and the narrations of the Prophet (sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam), and thereby apostatizing from Islam.

4) In the view of the Islamic State, reviving the practice of slavery is actually a desirable goal with tangible spiritual benefits. They believe that slavery helps men avoid sexual sin because it enables them to avoid prohibited forms of extramarital sex. They underscore that it is impermissible to sleep with a hired household maid (a widespread occurrence in some countries where maids who become pregnant are often punished/imprisoned), yet sleeping with one’s concubine (who will have the same duties as the maid) is permissible:

Finally, a number of contemporary scholars have mentioned that the desertion of slavery had led to an increase in fāhishah (adultery, fornication, etc.), because the shar’ī alternative to marriage is not available, so a man who cannot afford marriage to a free woman finds himself surrounded by temptation towards sin. In addition, many Muslim families who have hired maids to work at their homes, face the fitnah of prohibited khalwah (seclusion) and resultant zinā occurring between the man and the maid, whereas if she were his concubine, this relationship would be legal. This again is from the consequences of abandoning jihād and chasing after the dunyā, wallāhul-musta’ān.

The entire article can be read in the PDF below. Some of you who know more about the Quran and Shariah than me will probably understand it more. I'm having difficulty understanding the rationale.

http://media.clarionproject.org/fil...-isis-magazine-Issue-4-the-failed-crusade.pdf
http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/

 

[Saqs]

I managed to get a copy of Dabiq's 4th edition and there is an article called "Slavery By The Hour" which is where ISIS details how their fighters kidnapped and distributed Yazidi women as slave concubines, as well as their view of the justification for slavery. It's fascinating reading but as I'm not Muslim and haven't really studied the Quran I don't know how accurate their interpretation is.

To summarise:

- it's ok to enslave the Yazidi women as they are neither people of the book nor apostates
- slavery was practised in the Prophet's day which justifies it being done today
- sex slavery and taking concubines helps men reduce sexual sin as they can have fornicate with their concubine without guilt so they won't be tempted to fornicate with other women outside marriage

Exact quotes from ISIS's publication Dabiq in blue.
-------------------------

Several observations on this IS article:

1) The campaign to enslave Yazidi women is genocidal in that it is part of a greater effort to end the existence of the Yazidi people:

The article states that the existence of the Yazidis is something for which God will judge Muslims:



The Islamic State also see the enslavement project as a means of forcing Yazidis to renounce their identity and convert to Islam:



2) The Islamic State differentiates between a) People of the Book (non-Islamic religions receiving some rights and protection), b) religious groups that were originally Muslim but that have apostatized, and c) religious groups that were “originally polytheistic:”


3) The IS article justifies their enslavement of polytheist women through their interpretation of the practice of the early Islamic community:

The article invokes the practice of khums originating with the earliest battles of Islam in which 1/5 of the war booty was set aside for the Prophet Mohammed (i.e. the “state”):


4) In the view of the Islamic State, reviving the practice of slavery is actually a desirable goal with tangible spiritual benefits. They believe that slavery helps men avoid sexual sin because it enables them to avoid prohibited forms of extramarital sex. They underscore that it is impermissible to sleep with a hired household maid (a widespread occurrence in some countries where maids who become pregnant are often punished/imprisoned), yet sleeping with one’s concubine (who will have the same duties as the maid) is permissible:



The entire article can be read in the PDF below. Some of you who know more about the Quran and Shariah than me will probably understand it more. I'm having difficulty understanding the rationale.

http://media.clarionproject.org/fil...-isis-magazine-Issue-4-the-failed-crusade.pdf
http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/

I can tell you it is so far removed from the proper interpretation, that it is laughable.

 

[Thivagar]

i managed to get a copy of dabiq's 4th edition and there is an article called "slavery by the hour" which is where isis details how their fighters kidnapped and distributed yazidi women as slave concubines, as well as their view of the justification for slavery. It's fascinating reading but as i'm not muslim and haven't really studied the quran i don't know how accurate their interpretation is.

To summarise:

- it's ok to enslave the yazidi women as they are neither people of the book nor apostates
- slavery was practised in the prophet's day which justifies it being done today
- sex slavery and taking concubines helps men reduce sexual sin as they can have fornicate with their concubine without guilt so they won't be tempted to fornicate with other women outside marriage

exact quotes from isis's publication dabiq in blue.
-------------------------

several observations on this is article:

1) the campaign to enslave yazidi women is genocidal in that it is part of a greater effort to end the existence of the yazidi people:

The article states that the existence of the yazidis is something for which god will judge muslims:



The islamic state also see the enslavement project as a means of forcing yazidis to renounce their identity and convert to islam:



2) the islamic state differentiates between a) people of the book (non-islamic religions receiving some rights and protection), b) religious groups that were originally muslim but that have apostatized, and c) religious groups that were “originally polytheistic:”


3) the is article justifies their enslavement of polytheist women through their interpretation of the practice of the early islamic community:

The article invokes the practice of khums originating with the earliest battles of islam in which 1/5 of the war booty was set aside for the prophet mohammed (i.e. The “state”):


4) in the view of the islamic state, reviving the practice of slavery is actually a desirable goal with tangible spiritual benefits. They believe that slavery helps men avoid sexual sin because it enables them to avoid prohibited forms of extramarital sex. They underscore that it is impermissible to sleep with a hired household maid (a widespread occurrence in some countries where maids who become pregnant are often punished/imprisoned), yet sleeping with one’s concubine (who will have the same duties as the maid) is permissible:



The entire article can be read in the pdf below. Some of you who know more about the quran and shariah than me will probably understand it more. I'm having difficulty understanding the rationale.

http://media.clarionproject.org/fil...-isis-magazine-issue-4-the-failed-crusade.pdf
http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/

well damnnnn

 

[shaykh]

I can tell you it is so far removed from the proper interpretation, that it is laughable.

Actually not really...check out Reliance of the Traveler a Shafii book which defines the eligible citizens of a state...i have a thread on here which discusses exactly how dhimmi are defined...



its a legitimate islamic opinion to now allow Yazidis citizenship...Shafii and Hanbal (of which Wahab is an offshoot) believe that people not of the book can not be citizens...Yazidis have been defined as devil worshippers so their options are either Islam, leave or die...or in this case enslavement...

Islam does not allow one to enslave citizens of the state...but it does allow one to take spoils of war...and Yazidis are especially fair game because they cannot be given citizenship...their women are perfectly acceptable to enslave as are their men...

As for the accusation of sexual slavery...this was perfectly acceptable during Islamic history...Muhammad married a woman he acquired (Safiyah) and even received a concubine as a gift (Mariyah the copt)

Here is a little tafsir of Ibn Kathir on sexual access towards ones slaves:

Tafsir Ibn Kathir on (23 5-6)

'And those who guard their private parts. Except from their wives and their right hand possessions, for then, they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors.) means, those who protect their private parts from unlawful actions and do not do that which Allah has forbidden; fornication and homosexuality, and do not approach anyone except the wives whom Allah has made permissible for them or their right hand possessions from the captives. One who seeks what Allah has made permissible for him is not to be blamed and there is no sin on him. Allah says:
(they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that) meaning, other than a wife or slave girl)'

This is clear on sexual access to slaves and no scholarship I have seen denies this fact...

And for further proof on the matter...

Tafsir ibn Kathir on (4:24)

'Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.) The Ayah means, you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married,

(except those whom your right hands possess) except those whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah was revealed,

(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women.'' This is the wording collected by At-Tirmidhi An-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih. '

Its even permissible to enslave a female who is already married...ISIL are just keeping it old school really...slavery, sexual slavery, beheadings...these were normal back during Islam's time for most cultures...nothing unique to Islam...its just we're bringing that culture into the present...

ISIL may not be a legitimate authority but refusing to allow Yazidis citizenship is a legitimate position in Islam, as is enslaving their women...

 

[shaykh]

I managed to get a copy of Dabiq's 4th edition and there is an article called "Slavery By The Hour" which is where ISIS details how their fighters kidnapped and distributed Yazidi women as slave concubines, as well as their view of the justification for slavery. It's fascinating reading but as I'm not Muslim and haven't really studied the Quran I don't know how accurate their interpretation is.

To summarise:

- it's ok to enslave the Yazidi women as they are neither people of the book nor apostates
- slavery was practised in the Prophet's day which justifies it being done today
- sex slavery and taking concubines helps men reduce sexual sin as they can have fornicate with their concubine without guilt so they won't be tempted to fornicate with other women outside marriage

Exact quotes from ISIS's publication Dabiq in blue.
-------------------------

Several observations on this IS article:

1) The campaign to enslave Yazidi women is genocidal in that it is part of a greater effort to end the existence of the Yazidi people:

The article states that the existence of the Yazidis is something for which God will judge Muslims:



The Islamic State also see the enslavement project as a means of forcing Yazidis to renounce their identity and convert to Islam:



2) The Islamic State differentiates between a) People of the Book (non-Islamic religions receiving some rights and protection), b) religious groups that were originally Muslim but that have apostatized, and c) religious groups that were “originally polytheistic:”


3) The IS article justifies their enslavement of polytheist women through their interpretation of the practice of the early Islamic community:

The article invokes the practice of khums originating with the earliest battles of Islam in which 1/5 of the war booty was set aside for the Prophet Mohammed (i.e. the “state”):


4) In the view of the Islamic State, reviving the practice of slavery is actually a desirable goal with tangible spiritual benefits. They believe that slavery helps men avoid sexual sin because it enables them to avoid prohibited forms of extramarital sex. They underscore that it is impermissible to sleep with a hired household maid (a widespread occurrence in some countries where maids who become pregnant are often punished/imprisoned), yet sleeping with one’s concubine (who will have the same duties as the maid) is permissible:



The entire article can be read in the PDF below. Some of you who know more about the Quran and Shariah than me will probably understand it more. I'm having difficulty understanding the rationale.

http://media.clarionproject.org/fil...-isis-magazine-Issue-4-the-failed-crusade.pdf
http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/

Seems to actually fit the consensus opinion on slavery really...

Read my post to Saqs on whether Yazidis are allowed citizenship or not...I also have another thread on here about it which discusses it in detail...

 

[OZGOD]

Actually not really...check out Reliance of the Traveler a Shafii book which defines the eligible citizens of a state...i have a thread on here which discusses exactly how dhimmi are defined...



its a legitimate islamic opinion to now allow Yazidis citizenship...Shafii and Hanbal (of which Wahab is an offshoot) believe that people not of the book can not be citizens...Yazidis have been defined as devil worshippers so their options are either Islam, leave or die...or in this case enslavement...

Islam does not allow one to enslave citizens of the state...but it does allow one to take spoils of war...and Yazidis are especially fair game because they cannot be given citizenship...their women are perfectly acceptable to enslave as are their men...

As for the accusation of sexual slavery...this was perfectly acceptable during Islamic history...Muhammad married a woman he acquired (Safiyah) and even received a concubine as a gift (Mariyah the copt)

Here is a little tafsir of Ibn Kathir on sexual access towards ones slaves:



Its even permissible to enslave a female who is already married...ISIL are just keeping it old school really...slavery, sexual slavery, beheadings...these were normal back during Islam's time for most cultures...nothing unique to Islam...its just we're bringing that culture into the present...

ISIL may not be a legitimate authority but refusing to allow Yazidis citizenship is a legitimate position in Islam, as is enslaving their women...

So ISIS is Islamically correct in taking the Yazidi women and children as sex slaves and selling them in slave markets because it happened a thousand years ago? Could this be a letter of the law vs intent of the law thing? It doesn't seem morally right but I'm not an expert on such things.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[shaykh]

So ISIS is Islamically correct in taking the Yazidi women and children as sex slaves and selling them in slave markets because it happened a thousand years ago? Could this be a letter of the law vs intent of the law thing? It doesn't seem morally right but I'm not an expert on such things.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sources for Islamic rule come from the Quran and the sayings and actions of the Prophet which of course happened thousands of years ago...

It was permissible then so its permissible now...there is nothing stating they have to do it...they can abstain...but there is no prohibition in place either...

Personally I don't see any moral reasoning behind slavery...it increases the rates of conversion but this is hardly a moral reason...

You mention children?...anyone who hasn't hit puberty is not eligible to be taken as a concubine...their definition of child is different to the current day definition in most places...

 

[saeedhk]

Pakistan Ulema Council condemns the IS-ET

 

[imback]

Pakistan Ulema Council condemns the IS-ET

which means they condemned Taliban earlier?

 

[OZGOD]

Sources for Islamic rule come from the Quran and the sayings and actions of the Prophet which of course happened thousands of years ago...

It was permissible then so its permissible now...there is nothing stating they have to do it...they can abstain...but there is no prohibition in place either...

Personally I don't see any moral reasoning behind slavery...it increases the rates of conversion but this is hardly a moral reason...

You mention children?...anyone who hasn't hit puberty is not eligible to be taken as a concubine...their definition of child is different to the current day definition in most places...

I guess if their Caliphate were to spread to the whole world, as a Christian I can pay the tax rather than be enslaved so that's some consolation at least. But Hindus and Buddhists because they are not Christians or Jews would be enslaved like the Yazidis?

 

[Buffet]

So ISIS is Islamically correct in taking the Yazidi women and children as sex slaves and selling them in slave markets because it happened a thousand years ago? Could this be a letter of the law vs intent of the law thing? It doesn't seem morally right but I'm not an expert on such things.

In my opinion, it was pretty much impossible for anyone to have the standards we have right now if we start going back 1000-2000 years. Forget about 1000-2000 years, founding fathers of US used to keep slaves and that was barely few centuries back. They were not super human or anything like that but they got so many things right in constitution that I feel amazed when thinking about their foresight. Still they had slaves.

I guess if their Caliphate were to spread to the whole world, as a Christian I can pay the tax rather than be enslaved so that's some consolation at least. But Hindus and Buddhists because they are not Christians or Jews would be enslaved like the Yazidis?

Scary prospect, isn't it?

 

[speed]

I guess if their Caliphate were to spread to the whole world, as a Christian I can pay the tax rather than be enslaved so that's some consolation at least. But Hindus and Buddhists because they are not Christians or Jews would be enslaved like the Yazidis?

Well Mohammad bin qasim took the jizya from the Hindus and Buddhist of sindh.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I guess if their Caliphate were to spread to the whole world, as a Christian I can pay the tax rather than be enslaved so that's some consolation at least. But Hindus and Buddhists because they are not Christians or Jews would be enslaved like the Yazidis?

Weren't there 40 nurses from India who were in Mosul when ISIS first rolled in? I guess either they must have been Muslims or Christians, I seem to recall there was a deal struck with the Indian govt to let them return to India. I also remember there were some who wanted to stay so no idea what that was all about.

 

[DiamondDigger]

Sources for Islamic rule come from the Quran and the sayings and actions of the Prophet which of course happened thousands of years ago...

It was permissible then so its permissible now...there is nothing stating they have to do it...they can abstain...but there is no prohibition in place either...

Personally I don't see any moral reasoning behind slavery...it increases the rates of conversion but this is hardly a moral reason...

You mention children?...anyone who hasn't hit puberty is not eligible to be taken as a concubine...their definition of child is different to the current day definition in most places...

Since you are making such a huge proclamation can you provide verses from Quran to support your argument? I am not interested in a quotes from books which are all hearsay, only verses from the Quran and if you can't find any directly from the Quran than you should stop spreading misinformation.

 

[OZGOD]

Well Mohammad bin qasim took the jizya from the Hindus and Buddhist of sindh.

So Mohammed Bin Qasim did the jizya in contravention of what shaykh said is the directive from the Quran? I thought only People of the Book could be given jizya.

What about the Shia? Are they considered heretics or apostates? What is the ruling on them?

On another note, is there any good English translation of the Quran? I am interested in reading it just so I can see for myself what the fuss is about.


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[DiamondDigger]

So Mohammed Bin Qasim did the jizya in contravention of what shaykh said is the directive from the Quran? I thought only People of the Book could be given jizya.

What about the Shia? Are they considered heretics or apostates? What is the ruling on them?

On another note, is there any good English translation of the Quran? I am interested in reading it just so I can see for myself what the fuss is about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I use these websites www.quran.com, www.clearquran.com and www.alislam.org. Specifically I use cleaequran.com the most because its smartphone friendly and easy to navigate.

 

[shaykh]

I guess if their Caliphate were to spread to the whole world, as a Christian I can pay the tax rather than be enslaved so that's some consolation at least. But Hindus and Buddhists because they are not Christians or Jews would be enslaved like the Yazidis?

Yeah in their Caliphate as a Christian you would pay tax...

The example on Sindh is a pertinent one...and as i mentioned earlier denying Yazidis citizenship is a legitimate Islamic opinion but this isn't a consensus issue...

Of the four main scholars whose schools have been followed throughout history two say anyone can be offered citizenship...and two say only people of the book can be offered citizenship...

Hanbali from which Wahabism is an offshoot states the latter...

For more on this subject take a read of my post in this thread...

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...to-be-citizens-of-a-Caliphate&highlight=jizya

 

[shaykh]

So Mohammed Bin Qasim did the jizya in contravention of what shaykh said is the directive from the Quran? I thought only People of the Book could be given jizya.

What about the Shia? Are they considered heretics or apostates? What is the ruling on them?

On another note, is there any good English translation of the Quran? I am interested in reading it just so I can see for myself what the fuss is about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A word of advice...the Quran is a impossible to interpret as a standalone book...verses need context...so when were they revealed, why they were revealed and even straight things like what they entail...both defenders and attackers of Islam interpret Islam based on their own unqualified positions...

There is a concept known as Tafsir which is when scholars interpret the verses and offer as commentary on the above...the most famous and used among Sunni Muslims is Tafsir Ibn Kathir...its available online so give it a read...

Reading verses in isolation doesn't inform the layman...

 

[shaykh]

Since you are making such a huge proclamation can you provide verses from Quran to support your argument? I am not interested in a quotes from books which are all hearsay, only verses from the Quran and if you can't find any directly from the Quran than you should stop spreading misinformation.

Lol is that a serious response?...i posted tafsir above this...I used the Quran ...

Are you suggesting Islam prohibited slavery? ...

Muhammad himself had a concubine in Mariyah the copt, took Safiyah as a wife as a spoil of war after eliminating all the males of her tribe including her husband, father and brother...this kind of behavior was normal back then...

I provided tafsir above which stated it was ok to have sexual relations with your slave even if she is married...

You are welcome to provide a counter argument...

 

[OZGOD]

ISIS Mega Discussion Thread [All Related News/Discussion Goes Here]

A word of advice...the Quran is a impossible to interpret as a standalone book...verses need context...so when were they revealed, why they were revealed and even straight things like what they entail...both defenders and attackers of Islam interpret Islam based on their own unqualified positions...

There is a concept known as Tafsir which is when scholars interpret the verses and offer as commentary on the above...the most famous and used among Sunni Muslims is Tafsir Ibn Kathir...its available online so give it a read...

Reading verses in isolation doesn't inform the layman...

I understand, I want to get a sense for the content at least. To get an idea for what Shariah would be. I'm guessing it would be the same as if I looked at everything in the Bible and followed it to the letter.

But what happens when there are contradictions? For example there is a saying in the Bible "an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth" which suggests that your can do to others what they do to you. If they rape your women you can rape theirs. But then in the Gospels Jesus says "turn the other cheek". So what to follow? Does this happen in the Quran?

Also as I asked before. What about the Shia? Are they considered to be apostates or heretics? ISIS seems to be torturing and crucifying them so I'm guessing they aren't allowed to pay tax or even be enslaved.


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[speed]

Lol is that a serious response?...i posted tafsir above this...I used the Quran ...

Are you suggesting Islam prohibited slavery? ...

Muhammad himself had a concubine in Mariyah the copt, took Safiyah as a wife as a spoil of war after eliminating all the males of her tribe including her husband, father and brother...this kind of behavior was normal back then...

I provided tafsir above which stated it was ok to have sexual relations with your slave even if she is married...

You are welcome to provide a counter argument...

But you can't rape her can't remember which scholar but I think it was Imam shafi who said the person who rapes his slave is stoned to death. There is also one instance where Hazrat umar condemned a soldier to death for raping a girl he had acquired by force.

 

[shaykh]

But you can't rape her can't remember which scholar but I think it was Imam shafi who said the person who rapes his slave is stoned to death. There is also one instance where Hazrat umar condemned a soldier to death for raping a girl he had acquired by force.

I raised it in another thread but how can any relationship built around someones capture be considered consensual?...we could have a discussion about consent if women were selling themselves into slavery but Islam actually banned this practice...
One popular method of acquiring female slaves was the capture of females during battle...this is no different to what ISIS is doing now...this is how Muhammad acquired Safiyyah for instance...to provide you a modern day parallel...if i kidnap a girl against her will and imprison her...then sleep with her without her offering resistance...is this consensual?...to suggest consensual sex with a slave is an oxymoron...any relationship between master and slave is rape...add the fact that you are permitted to sleep with a married slave makes this even more clear...the girl doesnt choose to be ones slave and the tafsir above show how sexual access was perfectly permissible during battle...

 

[shaykh]

I understand, I want to get a sense for the content at least. To get an idea for what Shariah would be. I'm guessing it would be the same as if I looked at everything in the Bible and followed it to the letter.

But what happens when there are contradictions? For example there is a saying in the Bible "an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth" which suggests that your can do to others what they do to you. If they rape your women you can rape theirs. But then in the Gospels Jesus says "turn the other cheek". So what to follow? Does this happen in the Quran?

Also as I asked before. What about the Shia? Are they considered to be apostates or heretics? ISIS seems to be torturing and crucifying them so I'm guessing they aren't allowed to pay tax or even be enslaved.


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Then go with tafsir...the Quran has the added problem of abrogation...certain verses were revealed which overrode previous ones...the Quran isn't written in order which makes tafsir that much more important...and contradictions that appear become clearer once a context is given...so yes contradictions appear but once context is understood you understand how the verse is applied...

And yep based on Wahabi fiqh (school of thought) the Shia's are heretics...to my understanding only Christians have been offered the prospect of the Jizya and what this promises is an absolute bloodbath...

 

[speed]

I raised it in another thread but how can any relationship built around someones capture be considered consensual?...we could have a discussion about consent if women were selling themselves into slavery but Islam actually banned this practice...
One popular method of acquiring female slaves was the capture of females during battle...this is no different to what ISIS is doing now...this is how Muhammad acquired Safiyyah for instance...to provide you a modern day parallel...if i kidnap a girl against her will and imprison her...then sleep with her without her offering resistance...is this consensual?...to suggest consensual sex with a slave is an oxymoron...any relationship between master and slave is rape...add the fact that you are permitted to sleep with a married slave makes this even more clear...the girl doesnt choose to be ones slave and the tafsir above show how sexual access was perfectly permissible during battle...

You are portraying just like isis e.g. female is captured in the morning and by the evening she has had sex with the soldier, In Islam you can not have sex with the girl until it is established that she is not pregnant i.e. you have to wait at the minimum until she completes one menstrual cycle, is that not enough time for them to establish a relationship?

 

[shaykh]

You are portraying just like isis e.g. female is captured in the morning and by the evening she has had sex with the soldier, In Islam you can not have sex with the girl until it is established that she is not pregnant i.e. you have to wait at the minimum until she completes one menstrual cycle, is that not enough time for them to establish a relationship?

Lol honestly is this your justification?...she is still a captive!!...lets put it this way...if i kidnap a girl and imprison her...and then wait a week to sleep with her does this make it any less rape?...DO THESE WOMAN CHOOSE TO BE CAPTIVES OR NOT?...

She is not a woman you have taken willingly so ANY relationship is surely rape...and read the tafsir and the hadith...it is permissible to take a woman who is married captive for yourself...if we were discussing anything other than Islam everyone would be saying how deplorable this is...

Muhammad consummated his relationship with Safiyyah three days after all the males of her tribe were killed, her husband was executed, her brother tortured to death, her father executed, all her tribes wealth confiscated, and all the females of her tribe were distributed as war booty among the other warriors of the tribe...

YET we are supposed to believe that she did this willingly...

 

[shaykh]

Lol, what are u smoking mate. U really can’t follow Islam without interpreting the narratives written in hadith. Ur statements sounds like u actually don’t believe or practice anything which is not written in Quran.

Do u pray five times, celebrate eid or take any special preparation before praying? Is there any Quranic verse which gives untainted clarification regarding these aspects?





Admirable post. It’s good to see that u r not trying to hide the truth like some other pseudo-intellectual Muslim lurking on pp. Anyway if I’m not wrong I believe in some other thread u were saying that Islam doesn’t need any change or modernization as it is the command of Allah.But don’t u think that it’s quite difficult to follow some of the laws described in hadith/quran in this 21st century.

I mean, if a scripture says that u can convert people from other religion to Islam but u can’t get yourself converted to other religion and the punishment of such act is death(considering the fact that u u r living under Islamic law and following its core value of Islam along with every other significant instructions described in these scriptures ), then don’t u think it’s a sanctimonious act and presence of such laws will continue to ignite the hate flame towards other religion and organizations like isis will just keep popping up with their extreme views.

The rise of ISIS actually and political Islam can actually be linked to those who are fighting it...if one looks at Christianity it has similar rules but Christians themselves are significantly more secular...

Muslims could also have been this way if not for a concerted effort by Western powers to enable and promote political Islam...political Islam was mainly used as a counterweight against leftist and nationalist forces...

Their dogmatic attitudes and penchant for violence make them very useful and they were among the fringes but Western powers helped build them...

The MB in Egypt were a CIA baby designed to undermine Nasser who was popular...the Egyptians wanted arab nationalism and leaned towards the Soviet Union so the MB were supported and funded...

Hamas is Israels creation designed to undermine Fatah, the PLO and because of their violent rhetoric provide Israel a premise to forever be at war...

Islamists have been supported and funded since Gaddafi took power in Libya and were the proxy that helped bring him down with outside help...

Al Qaeda and Zia's fight against the left Pakistanis know well enough about...

Britain moans about Muslims going to Syria now but helped Saudi train Brits to go and fight in Bosnia...Omar Bakri was once an asset...

The Ayatollahs were supported by the CIA against Mossadegh...

ISIS we know about...I can go on and on...where you find political Islam you will find Western support...

Madeline Albright in 2000 spoke about the problem of having so many weapons but not being able to use them...war is exactly what construction companies, security companies and arms companies have always wanted and with islamist organizations this is exactly what they have...

The rise of Islam is organized unfortunately...so if these organizations keep popping up its not because of the laws...its because they have the material support to stop being fringe organizations...

 

[speed]

Lol honestly is this your justification?...she is still a captive!!...lets put it this way...if i kidnap a girl and imprison her...and then wait a week to sleep with her does this make it any less rape?...DO THESE WOMAN CHOOSE TO BE CAPTIVES OR NOT?...

She is not a woman you have taken willingly so ANY relationship is surely rape...and read the tafsir and the hadith...it is permissible to take a woman who is married captive for yourself...if we were discussing anything other than Islam everyone would be saying how deplorable this is...

Muhammad consummated his relationship with Safiyyah three days after all the males of her tribe were killed, her husband was executed, her brother tortured to death, her father executed, all her tribes wealth confiscated, and all the females of her tribe were distributed as war booty among the other warriors of the tribe...

YET we are supposed to believe that she did this willingly...

Being a slave is better in the circumstances of war as protection, food, shelter is provided by the muslim army I mean what are the alternatives for the defeated? prostitution? death by starvation?.

Safiyah embraced Islam not long after the Muslims victory of her own accord so It only point's that she was happy with being the Wife of Nabi Muhamamd(saw) I mean she was given a choice right of returning to her people or embracing islam, and she chose Islam you see where the problem lies with your thinking shayk you criticize islam from the main sources but you won't take into account the same sources if they show choice and decision of the slave in this case.

 

[shaykh]

Being a slave is better in the circumstances of war as protection, food, shelter is provided by the muslim army I mean what are the alternatives for the defeated? prostitution? death by starvation?.

Safiyah embraced Islam not long after the Muslims victory of her own accord so It only point's that she was happy with being the Wife of Nabi Muhamamd(saw) I mean she was given a choice right of returning to her people or embracing islam, and she chose Islam you see where the problem lies with your thinking shayk you criticize islam from the main sources but you won't take into account the same sources if they show choice and decision of the slave in this case.

All her people had been killed...what people was she returning to?...all the men had been killed...and her choice was to become Muslim and marry the Prophet or to be enslaved and be handed out as a concubine...this is what you call a choice?...

Let me give you an analogy...person A comes into someones house...kills everyone in the house...a young girl no longer has her family to look after her...person A also takes all the money in the house...and then decides not to kill the girl but to make her his girl...

This is an example of compassion iyo?...

 

[speed]

There were other jewish tribes in the peninsula she would have returned to them.

So you are saying she had no choice, that her testimony of faith was not of her own accord, now you are interpreting the event lol.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The MB in Egypt were a CIA baby designed to undermine Nasser who was popular...the Egyptians wanted arab nationalism and leaned towards the Soviet Union so the MB were supported and funded...

Hamas is Israels creation designed to undermine Fatah, the PLO and because of their violent rhetoric provide Israel a premise to forever be at war...

Islamists have been supported and funded since Gaddafi took power in Libya and were the proxy that helped bring him down with outside help...

Al Qaeda and Zia's fight against the left Pakistanis know well enough about...

Britain moans about Muslims going to Syria now but helped Saudi train Brits to go and fight in Bosnia...Omar Bakri was once an asset...

The Ayatollahs were supported by the CIA against Mossadegh...

ISIS we know about...I can go on and on...where you find political Islam you will find Western support...

Madeline Albright in 2000 spoke about the problem of having so many weapons but not being able to use them...war is exactly what construction companies, security companies and arms companies have always wanted and with islamist organizations this is exactly what they have...

The rise of Islam is organized unfortunately...so if these organizations keep popping up its not because of the laws...its because they have the material support to stop being fringe organizations...

Lots of half truths

The Muslims who fought in Bosnia went straight over from Afg after 1989

Nasser and the MB fought together to overthrow the previous Egyptian regime

Hamas are a outside branch of Mb and were not connived by Israel but may have been propped up just as the plo have been in recent years

Gaddafi was said to have been responsible for Lockerbie etc etc etc


I'm not sure what your point is , whether you are saying 'islamism' is a western fantasy as a proxy for war or whatever conspiracy theorires you're flouting but most of it is factually incorrect

 

[DiamondDigger]

Lol, what are u smoking mate. U really can’t follow Islam without interpreting the narratives written in hadith. Ur statements sounds like u actually don’t believe or practice anything which is not written in Quran.

Do u pray five times, celebrate eid or take any special preparation before praying? Is there any Quranic verse which gives untainted clarification regarding these aspects?





Admirable post. It’s good to see that u r not trying to hide the truth like some other pseudo-intellectual Muslim lurking on pp. Anyway if I’m not wrong I believe in some other thread u were saying that Islam doesn’t need any change or modernization as it is the command of Allah.But don’t u think that it’s quite difficult to follow some of the laws described in hadith/quran in this 21st century.

You are absolutely right I follow the Quran and the Quran only. For me all man written history can be distorted easily and I don't believe in any other scripture other than the holy Quran. If that makes me a kafir according to you or people like Shykh than so be it. As for the rest of your questions lol its a typical argument by Wahabis and folks who give more importance to Hadith and other scriptures than the Quran, to get your answer stop following the words of Mullahs or so called "scholars" (who for the most part can't even agree on which hadith is right or wrong) use your god given brain and grab Quran and find your answer. May God guide you to the right path. Ameen.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I understand, I want to get a sense for the content at least. To get an idea for what Shariah would be. I'm guessing it would be the same as if I looked at everything in the Bible and followed it to the letter.

But what happens when there are contradictions? For example there is a saying in the Bible "an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth" which suggests that your can do to others what they do to you. If they rape your women you can rape theirs. But then in the Gospels Jesus says "turn the other cheek". So what to follow? Does this happen in the Quran?

Also as I asked before. What about the Shia? Are they considered to be apostates or heretics? ISIS seems to be torturing and crucifying them so I'm guessing they aren't allowed to pay tax or even be enslaved.


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So which Christian nation can you think of that turned the other cheek? Right now I'm struggling to find Buddhist or vegetarians capable of following this higher path.

 

[OZGOD]

So which Christian nation can you think of that turned the other cheek? Right now I'm struggling to find Buddhist or vegetarians capable of following this higher path.

Nobody turns the other cheek because in realpolitik that makes you look weak and others will take advantage of it. My point was that on one hand the Bible says "an eye for an eye" but on the other it also says "turn the other cheek". Obviously the first phrase was in the Book of Exodus which is in the Old Testament, the second comes from the Book of Matthew in the New Testament. Usually Christians take the New Testament as taking precedence over the Old Testament (people obviously not countries). I was asking if the Quran had similar inconsistencies in it or does everything point in the same direction.

 

[10sion]

The only reason why Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh are low in numbers because they can't afford to fly there. If someone pay for their air travel, I'm damn sure the numbers will be much higher.

LOL @ this logic!

You think these guys pay for their travel themselves? Its not a vacation. They are going with the express aim of fightig for an Islamic state and hence ISIS and its subsidiaries covers their costs.. Do you even know how vast the budget of ISIS is?

What Zanjeer commented is actually true. Its far easier for someone having a UK/US passport than people from subcontinent to travel around. As for ISIS budget, do you think its that easy that you make a phone call and without and references or knowing who you are they will transfer you money for coming and joining them...what are they... some Nigerian Prince

And quite a few Bangladeshis have already been arrested including a recruiter who is said to have come from UK. Not surprisingly, the ones who were caught came from rich/relatively rich families and educated backgrounds. Not every Tamim/Dollar/Hasan will be given a visa to go around.

 

[OZGOD]

A 17 year old Australian who ran away from home to join ISIS has appeared in an ISIS video threatening the US, Britain and Australia. Video in the link below.

Australian jihadist warns Tony Abbott 'we will defeat you' in Islamic State video

David Wroe, Natalie O'Brien
Published: October 21, 2014 - 2:52PM

An Australian teenager who ran away from his Bankstown family home in June has surfaced in a chilling Islamic State video threatening Tony Abbott and vowing to fight until the militant group has conquered the West.

Abdullah Elmir, 17 appeared in the video posted on the internet on Monday night under the nom de guerre "Abu Khaled from Australia". He is dressed in military gear and holding a rifle, standing among several dozen fellow jihadists.

Speaking for a little under two minutes directly to the camera, Elmir baits the United States, Britain and "especially … Australia" to throw everything they have militarily against the Islamic State group, which has seized large tracts of territory across Syria and Iraq.

He then vows the group will keep fighting until it has raised the black flag of the Islamic State above the White House and beheaded "tyrants" – apparently referring to Western leaders including Mr Abbott.

It is the first time the Islamic State, also known as ISIL, has specifically mentioned the Prime Minister in one of its major propaganda videos and is also the most prominent role so far given to an Australian jihadist.

"This message I deliver to you, the people of America. I deliver this message to you, the people of Britain, and I deliver this message to you, especially, the people of Australia," he says.

"Bring every nation that you want to come and fight us. It means nothing to us. Whether it's 50 nations or 50,000 nations, it means nothing to us. Bring your planes. Bring everything you want to us. Because it will not harm us. Why? Because we have Allah, glorious be He."

He continues: "To the leaders, to Obama, to Tony Abbott, I say this: these weapons that we have, these soldiers, we will not stop fighting.

"We will not put down our weapons until we reach your lands, until we take the head of every tyrant and until the black flag is flying high in every single land, until we put the black flag on top of Buckingham Palace, until we put the black flag on top of the White House.

"We will not stop and we will keep on fighting. And we will fight you and we will defeat you."

Elmir ran away from his Bankstown home in June shortly after his 17th birthday, accompanied by a 16-year-old friend known only as Feiz.

He told his mother he was going on a fishing trip before he disappeared. His family discovered that he had left the country only after he sent a text message to another family member asking them to tell his mother he had "gone" .

The pair caught flights to Perth then Malaysia, Thailand, and finally on to Turkey.

From there, they contacted family and said they were going over the border. Elmir's family presumed he meant he was going to Syria or Iraq to fight. They have been calling on the authorities to help bring him home.

Feiz was intercepted by his father while he was en route to Iraq and taken to Lebanon. Feiz returned to Sydney quietly last month.

Elmir's family have said they are shocked and devastated. They believe he has been "brainwashed" and they want to know who paid for his air ticket and encouraged him to go.

They have described him as academically bright and caring.

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This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...u-in-islamic-state-video-20141021-1195sh.html

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Man stones his own daughter in ISIS video

AN ELDERLY SYRIAN man took part in the stoning of his own daughter in a new video posted by the Islamic State group.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the execution took place in August or September in an IS-controlled rural area in the east of the central province of Hama.

The woman was accused of adultery.

In the video, the man stands with an Islamic State commander behind him, who explains the accusations. His daughter appeals for forgiveness, but the man refuses, pointing at the sky. He is convinced to relent, but his daughter is not spared.
Afterwards, the bearded commander speaks to the woman as she pleads her case. He then speaks to the camera.
AFP reports that the man says:

“The punishment is the result of crimes which you committed under no duress,” he says.
“You must accept the punishment of God. Do you accept the punishment of God?”
The woman is then led by her father to a hole. Before being stoned to death, she is allowed to speak.
“I say to every woman: preserve your honour … and I appeal to every father to pay attention to the surroundings your daughter lives in,” she says.

At one point in the disturbing five-minute video, the father is seen picking up a large rock and throwing it at his daughter from just inches above her head.

This was the latest in spate of videotaped executions that the jihadists have posted on social media as they impose their extreme version of Islamic sharia law across a swathe of Syria and neighbouring Iraq

Source: http://www.thejournal.ie/islamic-state-stoning-video-woman-adultery-1737031-Oct2014/

 

[LongHorn]

What disturbs me is that while everyone will condemn the stoning, if certain ahadith are to be believed, then stoning her was the right thing to do and was done during the time of Prophet saws.

May Allah forgive me for feeling this way, but I can never reconcile the Quran mentioning lashing as the punishment for adultery, and Hadith followers claiming the actual punishment is stoning married adulterers

 

[Markhor]

Western forces have apparently airdropped weapons meant for the Kurds in Kobane right into the hands of ISIL who are parading the weapons on video !

The sheer ineptitude of every western intervention is staggering.

 

[Saeed]

I am dead sure that shipment of weapons to kurds is going to cause trouble for turkey someday in future.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Shia youth ‘who fought ISIS’ gets grand welcome home in Lucknow

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ught-isis-gets-grand-welcome-home-in-lucknow/

 

[Saeed]

U.S. accidentally delivered weapons to the Islamic State by airdrop, militants say
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/10/21/u-s-accidentally-delivered-weapons-to-the-islamic-state-by-airdrop-militants-allege/
Was it really by accident and an honest mistake or fueling the war even further?

 

[moumotta]

Shia youth ‘who fought ISIS’ gets grand welcome home in Lucknow

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ught-isis-gets-grand-welcome-home-in-lucknow/

Our version of Good Militant/ Bad Militant

 

[OZGOD]

In a throwback to the time of Jesus and the Romans, ISIS has crucified a 17 year old boy.

What next? Shall we see people flayed alive? Be disembowelled and strangled with their own intestines? Ripped apart by four horses?

ISIS must be such a haven for psychopaths. Imagine being able to torture and inflict extreme pain on someone else without penalty. Imagine being able to decapitate people and hold their head up on a spear as if you were someone in Game of Thrones. Imagine being able to take women and children as sex slaves. Certainly beats being in their mums' basements watching reruns of Happy Days eh.

Isis fighters 'crucify' 17-year-old boy in Syria
The boy's body has been left on display in Al-Bab

HEATHER SAUL Author Biography Friday 17 October 2014

Isis fighters have reportedly executed a 17-year-old boy and left his body on display on a cross in Syria.

Pictures being shared online show a banner attached to the teenager’s chest saying the boy has been crucified for taking photos of Isis military bases, as well as receiving “500 Turkish lira” for any footage taken.

The message describes the ruling for the alleged crime as “apostasy” and states the teenager has been “killed and crucified for a period of three days” as the punishment.

The alleged execution comes after it emerged Isis militants had beheaded their own fighters for spying and espionage.

It is not known who took the picture, which was circulated across social media by some Isis supporters on Friday.

Charlie Winter, Programs Officer at counter-extremism think tank the Quilliam Foundation, said crucifixion is a prescribed punishment meted out by Isis for specific crimes.

He told The Independent: “Crucifixion has been used many times before – it’s an age-old punishment dealt out to people who have committed treason.”

He said this punishment arises from Isis’s fundamentalist interpretation of Verse 33 of the fifth book of the Koran, which reads: "Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land.

“That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.”

However, he said the next very next verse emphasises forgiveness and removes the imperative to use such a punishment, saying: “Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Mr Winter said the apostasy ruling suggested a fusion of theological and statutory terms.

The recent killing follows a series of executions in Raqqa in May believed to have been committed by Isis militants, where bodies were left suspended on wooden crosses for two days.

In March, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Isis crucified a man for “purposefully killing a Muslim to take his money”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-crucify-17yearold-boy-in-syria-9802216.html

 

[imback]

Dutch Mayor Compares Muslims Joining ISIS to Post WWII Jews

Lured by local mosques and the Internet, by visions of warriors and victory dancing in their heads, thousands of European Muslims have left the safety of their homes in England, France, Germany, the Netherlands and elsewhere to join the Syrian jihad.

Concern about the security threat they may pose on their return has gripped European leaders for some time; now, they are starting to focus on ways of stopping Muslim would-be jihadists from traveling to Syria at all.

But not everyone seems to think it's such a good idea: Pieter Broertjes, mayor of the Dutch city of Hilversum, for instance, thinks they should be allowed to go. "They're adults," he said in a radio interview Thursday. "Dutch went to Israel after World War II to fight the British, and we didn't try to stop them." (The reference is to the Palestinian territories, which was under British rule until 1948.)

Let's get this straight. Muslims who seek to join terrorist groups, killing innocent men, women and children in some of the most gruesome, inhuman acts of violence imaginable, are just like the Jews who escaped Europe after World War II?

What makes Broertjes' statement particularly shocking is that it comes just two months after a remark by another member of his party, the PvdA, or Labor Party, described IS on Twitter as a "Zionist plot."

The issue in the Broertjes interview was the proposal, raised in numerous European countries, to confiscate (or annul) the passports of anyone suspected of planning to travel to Syria – a suggestion Broertjes finds excessive. Earlier this year, a known Dutch Muslim radical, then living in Hilversum, left for Syria with his wife and children, escaping the notice of local officials – including the mayor's office.

Broertjes remark led to an online uproar, with Esther Voet, the director of the country's largest Jewish rights organization, CIDI, offering on Twitter to give him history lessons. In response, someone calling himself TweetBassam snapped, "Pieter was right, #ISIS and zionists are both terrorists, f***you cidi and you cu*t, Esther."

Broertjes has not responded to any of the criticism. Instead, a PvdA spokesperson apologized on his behalf, calling the remark "un-thought-out" and "unfortunate."

He has not offered to resign.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...mpares-Muslims-Joining-ISIS-to-Post-WWII-Jews

He is right anyway.. #JSIL

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

ISIS Now Earns $1 Million/Day Selling Crude Oil

WASHINGTON: The Islamic State has become the world's wealthiest terror group, generating tens of millions of dollars a month from black market oil sales, ransoms and extortion, officials said on Thursday.

It earns USD 1 million a day alone by selling crude oil from fields captured when the group swept across Iraq and Syria earlier this year, said David Cohen, Treasury undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence.

Because the group, also known as ISIL, has "amassed wealth at an unprecedented pace" from different sources than most terror groups, it presents a particular challenge to the US and its allies working to choke off money flows.

"We have no silver bullet, no secret weapon to empty ISIL's coffers overnight. This will be a sustained fight, and we are in the early stages," Cohen said.

He is among a team of Obama administration officials leading the fight against the Islamic State (IS) group, seeking to get allies, including Gulf countries, on board.

IS is now "considered the world's wealthiest and most financially sophisticated terrorist organisation," said Marwan Muasher, vice president at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Unlike al Qaeda, IS does not attract most of its funds from deep-pocketed rich donors, often in Gulf countries, or from state sponsors.

Yet "with the important exception of some state-sponsored terrorist organisations, ISIL is probably the best-funded terrorist organisation we have confronted," Cohen said, warning its revenue sources were "deep and diverse."

The group's "primary funding tactics enable it today to generate tens of millions of dollars per month," he told the think-tank.

Oil sales alone from captured refineries are allowing the militants to produce some 50,000 barrels a day sold "at substantially discounted prices to a variety of middle men, including some from Turkey, who then transport the oil to be resold."

Oil has also been sold to Kurds in Iraq, and then resold to Turkey, as it has "tapped into a long-standing and deeply rooted black market connecting traders in and around the area."

Even Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's regime, which is fighting ISIL as well as the moderate US-backed opposition, has got in on the act and "made an arrangement to purchase oil from ISIL" -- from fields and refineries once under Syrian control.

The group has also pocketed about USD 20 million this year through kidnappings, particularly of journalists and European hostages.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/islamic-state-militants-now-world-s-richest-experts-611086

 

[j_kazmi]

Who do they actually sell the oil to?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Who do they actually sell the oil to?

Jordan, Turkey, Iran and Syria.

What do ISIS do with the oil they get?


ISIS smuggle the crude oil and trade it for cash and refined products, at a reduced price. They also have their own small and rudimentary refineries in Syria.
Every tent holds a horror story

Refined oil is returned to ISIS for selling locally, in Iraq and Syria. ISIS also use the oil in their own warfare.

ISIS controls smuggling routes and the crude transported by tankers to Jordan via Anbar province, to Iran via Kurdistan, to Turkey via Mosul, to Syria's local market and to the Kurdistan region of Iraq, where most of it gets refined locally.

Turkey has turned a blind eye to this and may continue to do so until they come under pressure from the West to close down oil black markets in the country's south.

ISIS' oil will remain limited to these black markets, and the group will have no chance to establish a sophisticated pipeline network. Fixed distribution networks are complex, require investment and can become targets by the Iraqi Army and Kurdish Peshmerga.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/business/al-khatteeb-isis-oil-iraq/

 

[just saying]

Jordan, Turkey, Iran and Syria.

Boycott & Sanction them!

 

[Saeed]

I am sure ISIS has more wealth than N-League. That's probably the only difference, else they both are terrorist groups and should be dealt with iron fist. One of them support the unjust massacre of shias and others in Iraq and Shaam while the other supports the same in Pakistan.

 

[shaykh]

ISIS are here to stay...their oil operation is working and they are starting to strangle the Iraqi regime...

While there have been reports of contributions to the coffers of Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) from Gulf donors, oil theft and sales from oil fields seized in Syria and Iraq allow ISIS to self-finance its activities to a large extent. Though the amounts taken off the legitimate market are a drop in the ocean of global or regional volumes, they are large enough to have a significant impact on the trajectory of the group. Unless regional or international forces are able to take back Syrian and Iraqi oil fields from ISIS control and, more importantly, dismantle its regional oil smuggling operations, ISIS will be here to stay, and grow stronger.

Syria: Isis Dominant

According to estimates made by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, total Syrian production in the hands of rebels, tribes and local families amount to approximately 60,000 barrels per day (b/d). And ISIS controls more than 60 per cent of Syria’s oil, according to the interim Syrian opposition government. ISIS production methods are said to be primitive, meaning they are not extracting the crude anywhere near maximum flow rates. Syria’s largest field, Omar, for instance, is a mature field, which requires water injection to enhance recovery. ISIS has managed to produce around 20,000 b/d from this field, from a maximum capacity of 75,000 b/d, according to recent Economist Intelligence Unit estimates.

Makeshift Refineries

Through a rough and dangerous process, ISIS refines some of the production in makeshift refineries. It reportedly sells the products to local consumers (for small-scale electricity generation), the Syrian regime (in exchange for immunity against air strikes) and black marketeers. It also exports crude oil from the Omar field to Turkey in tanker trucks that it owns. Some queues of tanker trucks have been reported to extend 2 kilometres. The sale price is estimated between $10-22 per barrel when sold through the rebel oil trading hub of Manbij, but likely fetches higher if trucked to Turkey directly. There have been reports from Turkish authorities of plastic pipelines being laid by the group, crossing over the border to Turkey.

Iraq: Baiji Battle, Fields Taken

ISIS’ control of oil facilities in Iraq is not comparable to that in Syria. Iraqi forces are battling to hold on to the strategic Baiji refinery. But the group recently captured two oil fields south of Kirkuk, Ajeel and Hamrin-2.

At these two fields engineers from ISIS’ network are said to run operations, but it is doubtful the group has the technical capacity to run larger or more complex operations. Nevertheless, revenues from these two small fields do add up. Shallal Abdoul, the administrative officer of the town of Tuz Khurmatu explains (as reported on azzaman.com), 'They load an average of 100 tanker trucks per day and sell it for a price ranging from $10,000 to $14,000.' This would put the price of the barrel sold in the neighborhood of $62.

The smuggling of crude from the two fields alone would provide ISIS with $1-1.4 million per day. An investigation into smuggling by the Iraq Oil Report confirmed that ISIS was producing approximately 20,000 b/d from Ajeel, which they were able to sell at $55 per barrel. While ISIS had started out by selling tankers to middlemen at about $26 per barrel, they have since cut out the middlemen and raised their prices. Oil is sourced elsewhere too: the country’s poorly protected oil infrastructure enables wide-scale plundering.

Who Buys Isis Oil?

The issue of who buys the stolen oil is very contentious: the opposition blames government, and vice versa. It appears ISIS sells through a mafia of middlemen who truck it to refineries in Iraqi Kurdistan, Turkey and Iran. A greater amount of the crude from Iraq goes through brokers than in Syria. ISIS also uses makeshift refineries, which allows them to sell the products more easily and locally.

Nation-Building Efforts

The revenues ISIS generates pay for the weapons and salaries of its troops. But they also serve to bolster the group’s nation-building efforts, enabling it to provide public services, food subsidies and charity in areas it controls. There are also reports of ISIS selling products at a low price to local residents to win supporters. However, administering Mosul, a city of almost two million people, seems to be stretching available funds and capabilities. Residents have reported electricity cuts, water shortages and low fuel supplies.

If the group is engaged in a zero-sum game with Baghdad, it appears to be winning. Indeed, ISIS is depriving the central governments in Iraq and Syria of a chunk of their petroleum revenues and this undercuts the governments’ ability to provide public services, pay salaries and carry out public projects.

The ability of ISIS to self-finance its expansionist push also means the group does not need to beg foreign sponsors for funds or support. Access to black market oil makes ISIS a greater threat to regional power brokers, who are unable to control it through the purse strings. The inability of Turkey, the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) and Iran (not to mention the Assad and Maliki governments) to stop the oil smuggling will allow the illicit network to grow, undercutting the hold that the region’s national oil companies have had for decades on the distribution and export processes – notwithstanding the KRG’s independent exports. In Iraq, the ISIS seizure of oil fields can also help it to rally support from sub-national authorities, which hope to gain control over the management of local oil fields and installations. This would further fracture the integrity of the Iraqi state. As the black market grows and the central states’ hold on the oil sector weakens, it will be increasingly difficult to overturn these trends.

- See more at: http://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/15203#sthash.lA7WB078.dpuf

 

[Saeed]

ISIS will stay there as long as U.S. wants. If U.S. wanted these sandle guys would have been bombed to hell by now but they are safe as long as they stay in Iraq and Shaam. If they ever decided to attack U.S., their days will be over just like Afghan taliban.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

It's hard to have any sympathy for these guys - they are adults and voluntarily joined the fight in Syria/Iraq. Now they should live with the consequences of their actions.

Isis threatens to kill British jihadis wanting to come home
British jihadi fighters desperate to return home from Syria and Iraq are being issued with death threats by the leadership of Islamic State (Isis), the Observer has learned.

A source with extensive contacts among Syrian rebel groups said senior Isis figures were threatening Britons who were attempting to travel home. He said: “There are Britons who upon wanting to leave have been threatened with death, either directly or indirectly.”

The news comes after it was revealed that another young Muslim from Portsmouth had been killed on the frontline in Syria, the fourth to die from a group of six men known as the “Pompey lads” who travelled together to fight for Isis.

Meanwhile, the former Guantánamo Bay detainee Moazzam Begg confirmed that he was also aware of dozens of British men keen to return to the UK but who were trapped in Syria and Iraq, in effect held by a group they wanted to leave. Begg said he knew of more than 30 who wanted to come back. They had travelled to join rebels fighting the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad but had subsequently become embroiled with Isis, some for language reasons – Isis had more English-speaking members.

In Syria, Muhammad Mehdi Hassan, 19, from Portsmouth was killed in fighting on Friday. He is understood to have died during the Isis offensive to capture the Syrian border city of Kobani, which is continuing.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ens-kill-british-jihadis-wanting-to-come-home

 

[shaykh]

Sad this:

How the West buys ‘conflict antiquities’ from Iraq and Syria (and funds terror)
By Sam Hardy October 27, 2014
324328545 Tags: ALEPPO | ARCHAEOLOGY | CONFLICT ANTIQUITIES | IRAQ | ISIS | ISLAMIC STATE | MESOPOTAMIA | SYRIA | UNESCO | WORLD HERITAGE
1“Many antique collectors unwillingly support terrorists like Islamic State, ” Michel van Rijn, one of the most successful smugglers of antique artifacts in the past century, told German broadcaster Das Erste this month.

And smuggling is booming in Iraq and Syria right now. In Iraq, 4,500 archaeological sites, some of them UNESCO World Heritage sites, are reportedly controlled by Islamic State and are exposed to looting. Iraqi intelligence claim that Islamic State alone has collected as much as $36 million from the sales of artifacts, some of them thousands of years old. The accounts data have not been released for verification but, whatever the exact number is, the sale of conflict antiquities to fund military and paramilitary activity is real and systematic.

Grainy video from soldiers fighting for President Bashar al-Assad’s regime at Palmyra, an ancient capital in what is now Syria, shows delicate grave reliefs of the dead, ripped out, gathered up and loaded into the back of their truck. The soldiers present the heads of decapitated statues to the camera. Other stolen Palmyrene treasures were exposed by an undercover reporter for The Sunday Times. Sculptures, pillar carvings and glass vessels were found to be on sale for knock-down prices in Beirut, Lebanon. Roman vases had been robbed from graves and were being sold by the box.

3Across the disintegrating border, every party to the conflict is party to the plunder. Beyond Palmyra, the ancient city of Aleppo and hundreds of other sites in Syria have been looted by one armed group or another.

Smuggler Abu Khaled told Time that the Assad regime was selling antiquities to pay its henchmen. Senior Free Syrian Army fighters told the Washington Post that looting antiquities was “a vital source of funding.” Another smuggler told Le Temps that Islamist fighters take control of trafficking when gaining territory.

How much — and even what — has been bought and sold isn’t known for sure, but entire sites are being lost.

The International Council of Museums’ Emergency Red Lists, which document cultural objects at risk of looting in Iraq and Syria, include clay tablets that preserve some of the earliest writing in the world, intricate stone carvings and coins, in addition to the other items mentioned above.

Penn Cultural Heritage Center’s Brian Daniels revealed to the New Yorker that he had seen such items for sale in border town markets in Turkey.

Of course, it is hard to prove how many of the looted antiquities have made it to the West. And Kate Fitz Gibbon, a lawyer who advises antiquities collectors, argues that there is “no credible evidence that looted art is coming from Syria to [the] U.S.” and that, rather, it is flowing “unchecked to Turkey, the Gulf States and other nearby nations.”4

Still, experts have shown a 145 percent increase in American imports of Syrian cultural property and a 61 percent increase in American imports of Iraqi cultural property between 2011 and 2013, which suggests that the illicit trade is reaching American consumers by ‘piggybacking’ on the legal trade. Furthermore, archaeologists Jesse Casana, Mitra Panahipour and Michael Danti have found evidence that looters are specifically targeting Classical antiquities in order to supply what is mostly a Western demand for Greek and Roman art.

An investigative report by the German broadcaster NDR documented evidence that antiquities looted by terrorist groups were being sold through German auction houses. The report revealed how Syrian conflict antiquities were smuggled as handicrafts, laundered with obscuring or outright false documentation, and then sold on the open market. It also exposed the transfer of antiquities to Gulf States, where they were laundered for resale in Western markets.6

We must not be misled by antiquities collecting lobbyists’ insinuation that Syria or Iraq’s antiquities are better smuggled than burned by the various groups of militants – the smuggling pays for the burning. Paramilitary profits from looting and smuggling underwrite the cost of war, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

So what can be done to stop this?

An emergency ban on trading in undocumented Syrian antiquities may help Syria now, but it will be no more effective against the perpetual, global threat than the ban on trading in undocumented Iraqi antiquities that preceded it.

Instead, it would make more sense for other nations to copy Germany’s law that will oblige dealers and collectors to present an export licence from where the object is coming from, in order to receive an import licence for any ancient artifact. That will cut the supply of illicit antiquities to the market, and thereby cut the flow of money to looting and smuggling mafias and militants.

There’s real urgency here. These glimpses into our past are disappearing before we can learn from them or they can be shared with their creators’ descendants. They will end up as art divorced from its culture – some in unscrupulous museums that hope they have been laundered just enough to appear clean, many more displayed as talking pieces in the homes of the wealthy or secreted away in private collections./QUOTE]

 

[OZGOD]

ISIS will stay there as long as U.S. wants. If U.S. wanted these sandle guys would have been bombed to hell by now but they are safe as long as they stay in Iraq and Shaam. If they ever decided to attack U.S., their days will be over just like Afghan taliban.

I thought the Afghan Taliban have been making huge gains after the US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

When the people of Gizab district rose up and ousted their Taliban rulers four years ago, international forces touted the district as a success story of civil courage and a milestone in the decade-long war. But now the district in Uruzgan, central Afghanistan, is about to fall back under the control of the insurgents, according to officials and community leaders.

The insurgent offensive comes a year after international troops withdrew from Uruzgan, and as UK troops are closing their largest base in Helmand, another embattled province in the south. A month of intense fighting in Gizab has displaced up to 500 families, and Taliban fighters are forcing residents to provide them with food and transportation and threatening people to stop them cooperating with the government, elders from the area said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/27/taliban-return-afghan-town-gizab

 

[OZGOD]

A Shiite leader in Sydney has been shot following threats by people purporting to be followers of ISIS.

Religious leader shot outside Islamic centre in Greenacre following threats

Megan Levy
Published: November 3, 2014 - 7:26PM

A man who was shot outside an Islamic prayer centre in Sydney's west was targeted as he locked up the building following a night observing the holy ritual of Ashura, one of the most important holidays for Shiite Muslims, according to a community member.

Witnesses claimed that a number of people had driven past the Husainiyah Nabi Akram centre on Rosedale Avenue in Greenacre just hours before the shooting, chanting in Arabic that "ISIS [terrorist group Islamic State] is coming" and "ISIS will stay".

Islamic State is an extremist organisation made up of Sunni jihadists and is involved in a violent conflict against Shiites and other groups in Iraq and Syria.

Rasoul Al-Musawi, a 47-year-old Iraqi Shiite religious leader at the centre, was shot in the face and shoulder as he was locking up the centre about 1.15am on Monday.

Witnesses dragged him back into the centre and gave him first aid until paramedics arrived and took him to hospital. He underwent surgery to remove the pellets on Monday.

Mr Al-Musawi's daughter, who witnessed the attack, said he "has done nothing wrong to anyone".

Jamal Daoud, a prominent member of Sydney's Shiite community, said a group of "extremists" had been targeting Shiite Muslims trying to enter the centre to observe Ashura, a 10-day ritual to commemorate the death of Imam Hussain, the grandson of Prophet Muhammad.

Mr Daoud claimed that a number of attacks had been carried out on the centre in recent days by extremists and "supporters of ISIS".

He said that about 8pm on Friday a man who was volunteering as a security guard at the centre was punched in the face by three men. Police are believed to be investigating that incident.

Sheikh Zaid Alsalami, from the Afghan-dominated Nabi Akram Islamic Centre in Granville, said worshippers at the Greenacre centre were predominately Iraqi.

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/religious...enacre-following-threats-20141103-11g0kx.html

 

[Buffet]

A Shiite leader in Sydney has been shot following threats by people purporting to be followers of ISIS.

Not a good sign for Aus with so many joining ISIS from Aus and now this happening even at home. Aus needs to ensure that this Shia Vs ISIS stuff is not imported in Aus.

 

[Saeed]

Australia should deport anyone bringing their sectarian war to Australia. These people should study about the country they are supposed to immigrate to before bringing their backward ways.

 

[Markhor]

IS recruiting thousands in Pakistan, govt warned in 'secret' report

KARACHI: The provincial government of Balochistan has conveyed a confidential report to the federal government and law enforcement agencies warning of increased footprints of militant organisation Islamic State (IS), also known by the Arabic acronym Daish, in Pakistan.

The ‘secret information report', a copy of which is available with DawnNews, is dated October 31, and states that IS has claimed to have recruited a massive 10 to 12,000 followers from the Hangu and Kurram Agency tribal areas.

"It has been reliably learnt that Daish has offered some elements of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ) and Ahl-e-Sunnat Wai Jamat (ASWJ) to join hands in Pakistan. Daish has also formed a ten-member Strategic Planning Wing," the report from the Home and Tribal Affair Department of Balochistan says.

The report states that the IS plans to attack military installations and government buildings in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in retaliation to the army-led Zarb-i-Azb operation in North Waziristan and also plans to target members of the minority Shia community.

The Balochistan government called for heightened vigilance and security measures in the province as well as the northwestern province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa to prevent and pre-empt such attacks.

It has moreover called for sensitising law enforcement agencies on the issue and an increased monitoring of LeJ members.

The warning comes days after six top commanders of the outlawed Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), including its now defunct spokesman Shahidullah Shahid, have announced their allegiance to IS's caliph Abu Bakar Al-Baghdadi Al Qureshi Al-Hussaini..

The Taliban spokesman said he, along with TTP chief for Orakzai Agency Saeed Khan, TTP chief for Kurram Agency Daulat Khan, TTP's Khyber Agency chief Fateh Gul Zaman, TTP’s Peshawar chief Mufti Hassan and TTP’s Hangu chief Khalid Mansoor, have announced their allegiance to Abu Bakar Al-Baghdadi.

Earlier in the week, Shahidullah Shahid was replaced by Mohammad Khurasani as the new TTP spokesperson

The Islamic State's presence has not been officially established so far.

 

[Saeed]

15,000 Foreign Fighters Have Joined Extremist Groups In Iraq And Syria. Here's Why They Went

Last week, the United Nations warned in a new report that terror groups in countries like Syria and Iraq are recruiting foreigners on an "unprecedented scale." An estimated 15,000 radicals from more than 80 nations are believed to have flocked to both war-torn nations to join extremist groups battling there. In its report, the U.N. said that that the foreign fighters could "form the core of a new diaspora that may seed the threat for years to come. "

The WorldPost spoke with Peter Neumann, a professor at King's College in London and the director of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalization, about the profile and the motivations of the foreigners who have joined groups like the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra in Syria and Iraq. "There are certainly justified fears about this population, although there's no reason to be alarmist," Neumann says.
Who heads to Iraq and Syria to fight?

Various reports indicate that up to 15,000 fighters have gone to Syria and Iraq over the past three years to join the Sunni side. Of those 15,000, about 60 to 70 percent come from Middle Eastern countries, and about 20 to 25 percent come from Western countries, including Western Europe, the United States and Australia.

Foreign fighters are not a monolithic entity, and not every one of them is like the guys you see in recruitment videos. Young people are going, quite old people are going, even women are going. Their motivations vary as well. At first, a lot of people joined because they were motivated by the plight of the Syrians. They were certainly Islamists, but they were not necessarily full-blown jihadists. Of those who traveled to Iraq and Syria more recently, many are very ideologically motivated. For some, there's also an element of adventure. The idea of fighting and using guns is clearly exciting a lot of people.

While there was a bit of a stagnation in recruitment numbers earlier this year, the numbers have gone up again. People have been reenergized by the declaration of the Islamic State, by what they see as a caliphate, by the military victories and by the Western intervention there. People who are particularly motivated by the idea of a battle between the West and Islam are now identifying with that particular struggle more than they used to a year or two ago.

What groups are these foreign fighters joining?

About 80 percent of the Westerners end up with the Islamic State, and some join Jabhat al-Nusra. Very few join any of the more nationalist, secular and moderate groups.

Do fighters from countries like Algeria and Tunisia follow different paths from Western fighters?

The patterns differ from country to country. With 3,000 and 2,500 fighters respectively, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia are the countries that recruit the most foreign fighters. Those people go to all kinds of groups. There are recruitment networks in place in a lot of these countries, and they have special relationships with particular groups. There are hardly any Westerners in Ahrar al-Sham, for example, but the group has lot of fighters from the Gulf.

What makes the Islamic State so appealing to Western fighters?

There are different factors at play. For a long time, IS was the only group that consistently did outreach in Western languages. In terms of the message, it also seems that it is also the most attractive group for people who want to fight for an ideology rather than for a free Syria.

The Islamic State is also less selective than a lot of other groups. If you come from the West, don't speak Arabic, you're not a particularly good fighter and don't have a particular skill, IS will probably still accept you. Jabhat al-Nusra is a lot more selective, for example. You have to bring references and have to show that you're quite religious and can be useful to the group.

This is not the first conflict to see the influx of fighters from abroad. What is different this time?

The act of foreign fighting, the idea that people get mobilized for a conflict they are not directly involved in on the basis of a transnational ideology, is something that we’ve seen for centuries. The Spanish Civil War in the 1930s attracted people from all over the world. The Afghanistan conflict in the 1980s mobilized up to 20,000 foreign fighters.

That last conflict is significant because what we're seeing playing out in Syria could actually be very similar. At the end of the Afghanistan conflict, fighters couldn’t go back to their home countries, and many decided to go from battlefront to battlefront. Al-Qaeda eventually came out of these networks.

That's of course the fear now. Thousands of fighters are making connections in Syria. At the end of the conflict, you’ll have thousands of people who are extremely brutalized, who have the skills to be a fighter or terrorist, with nothing to do.

What makes the current conflict different from for example the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s are the aims that people are fighting for. In the Spanish Civil War, left-wing people went to Spain to fight against fascism. I personally have a lot more sympathy for that motivation than for jihadis who want to create a society that's either killing or suppressing minorities. The act of fighting is the same, but the ultimate aim of the movement is very, very different.

In addition to the fear that radicalized fighters are establishing new connections, what other dangers does the recruitment of foreign fighters by groups like the Islamic State pose?

Foreign fighters tend to make conflicts worse because they are often very ideologically motivated and are more dependent on the group. They are often used for very brutal operations that locals refuse to carry out. In the Syrian conflict, suicide bombings, beheadings or torture are almost always carried out by foreigners. Foreign fighters have already made the conflict in Syria more sectarian, more extreme and harder to resolve.

Secondly, when the conflict ends, there will be a large number of people who are skilled, brutalized and interconnected. There's of course a fear they will become involved in terrorism. One study has shown that 1 in 9 foreign fighters subsequently becomes involved in terrorism in their home countries. Other studies show that number may be slightly higher. There are also studies that indicate that if these people do become terrorists, they are better at it and are more lethal.

There are certainly justified fears about this population, although there's no reason to be alarmist.

How should governments respond to these threats?

If there’s a reasonable suspicion that someone is about to go join a militant group in Syria or Iraq, I would be in favor of taking away their passports and preventing them from traveling.

The long-term approach needs to be about prevention. We found that for a lot of people going over there, their experiences turn out to be very different than what they were promised. The true story of what it’s like to be a foreign fighter needs to be told. When you go over there, the Syrian population doesn't really like you. You'll probably end up fighting other Muslim groups that you kind of sympathize with. You may even die or be killed.

What should we expect when those fighters return home?

You’ll find different groups of people. There are people who are going to be dangerous, who do present security challenges for Western countries. They hate the West, and will probably become involved in attacks or are already talking about it.

There are clearly people who will be disturbed, rather than dangerous. They will be traumatized by the conflict, the things they’ve seen and the things they’ve experienced. They are a risk to society, not necessarily because of their extremist ideology but because they are messed up in their head.

And there’s a third group, that’s often being forgotten. Some people will be disillusioned. We’re already seeing that some of the fighters who were there are feeling like they’re trapped. They are disillusioned by what they've seen and no longer want to stay, but at same time they can’t go back to their home country because they will be arrested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/08/foreign-fighters-iraq-syria_n_6116440.html

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Some reports around that 'Caliph' Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was caught in a US air strike and was critically injured.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/08/us-air-strikes-target-top-isis-leaders-in-iraq