Is Mohammad Asghar really a worse bowler than Imad Wasim and Mohammad Nawaz?

[mak36]

Because based on the recent central contracts that is what the management seems to think; Asghar has lost his D grade contract, whilst Imad and Nawaz were awarded C grade contracts (a demotion in category for Imad but a promotion for Nawaz).

This seems very harsh.

After all, it wasn’t that long ago Asghar was in the test squad and now he finds himself left out in the cold.

Asghar bowls with good drift, flights the ball well and can get the ball to dip. Most importantly he actually turns the ball. He also has some good variations including: (i) topspinner, (ii) an excellent arm ball which he can get to swing and (iii) varies his release point to offer subtle changes in trajectory.

Don’t get me wrong. Asghar is by no means the finished article. He is still very much learning the art of setting up a batsman; he needs to stop being so impatient with his variations and actually bowl his stock ball as his main delivery (whilst varying his pace) to tie down the batsman and then use his actual variations as wicket taking deliveries.

All that said, he has a higher ceiling than Imad and Nawaz, particularly when you consider the fact he is only 19.

Asghar may not have been ready to make his debut yet, but removing him from the central contracts seems harsh and sends out the wrong message. The fact another spinner wasn’t awarded a central contract in his place makes the decision all the more unusual.

Your thoughts?

Points to Note:
1) Don’t derail this thread into how there are better left arm spinners in domestic cricket (e.g. Zafar Gohar). This post is focussed on the three left-arm spinners that were centrally contracted, and whether the management were right to retain Imad and Nawaz over Asghar.

2) This post is focussed on bowling ability- don’t bring in arguments about how Imad and Nawaz add value because they are (pseudo)- all rounders. Pakistan are already playing an spin all-rounder in Shadab, and need a specialist spinner!

 

[Sherlock]

Nawaz is an atrocious bowler with zero probability of improving any further.

Imad is a spinner that bowls like a medium-pacer. There's also nothing in him that I can see that tells me he'll improve any further too. Always thought he lacked the basics of a spinner and that was flight and spin. Nothing's changed either.

 

[ManFan]

Asghar is a liability with the bat so the team management goes with Nawaz and or Imad (both duds with the bat).

Also, the management does not have faith in his bowling otherwise with the phainty Yasir was receiving in Australia, he would have been given a go.

 

[mak36]

Asghar is a liability with the bat so the team management goes with Nawaz and or Imad (both duds with the bat).

Also, the management does not have faith in his bowling otherwise with the phainty Yasir was receiving in Australia, he would have been given a go.

Pakistan needs a specialist spinner- there is plenty of lower order batting already, and like you it's not like Nawaz and Imad are setting the world alight with the bat.

 

[mak36]

Nawaz is an atrocious bowler with zero probability of improving any further.

Imad is a spinner that bowls like a medium-pacer. There's also nothing in him that I can see that tells me he'll improve any further too. Always thought he lacked the basics of a spinner and that was flight and spin. Nothing's changed either.

Lol I wouldn't go that far re Nawaz. When the pitch offers some assistance, he can be useful but otherwise he is a dud.

Fully agree re Imad.

 

[ManFan]

Pakistan needs a specialist spinner- there is plenty of lower order batting already, and like you it's not like Nawaz and Imad are setting the world alight with the bat.

He’s had a poor PSL 3 so that makes his selection that much tougher.

Mickey Arthur is a South African coach where the best spinner under his reign was Nicky Boje! He knows very little about Subcontinent spinners and what makes or breaks a traditional slow spinner. His love for darters who give him a good economy in LOI’s is evident and no spinner has made a great impression this PSL. Otherwise, all the talents that made a big splash like Asif Ali, Talat Hussain and Shaheen Shah Afridi were given international debuts.

It seems unfortunate but Asghar or any other orthodox spinner will have to wait until after PSL 4 to be drafted in the team. Which would be a grave mistake because two leg-spinners in Test cricket is a tactical error. However, since Shadab cannot be dropped because of his excellent batting potential and improving leg-spin while Yasir is on the decline, there will be a big gap in the coming two years that some spinner will have to fill.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Pakistan have to develop Asghar and Raza Hassan.

 

[mak36]

He’s had a poor PSL 3 so that makes his selection that much tougher.

Mickey Arthur is a South African coach where the best spinner under his reign was Nicky Boje! He knows very little about Subcontinent spinners and what makes or breaks a traditional slow spinner. His love for darters who give him a good economy in LOI’s is evident and no spinner has made a great impression this PSL. Otherwise, all the talents that made a big splash like Asif Ali, Talat Hussain and Shaheen Shah Afridi were given international debuts.

It seems unfortunate but Asghar or any other orthodox spinner will have to wait until after PSL 4 to be drafted in the team. Which would be a grave mistake because two leg-spinners in Test cricket is a tactical error. However, since Shadab cannot be dropped because of his excellent batting potential and improving leg-spin while Yasir is on the decline, there will be a big gap in the coming two years that some spinner will have to fill.

First, PSL isn't (or at least shouldn't be) the only assessment criteria. He had a pretty good domestic season.

Second, he bowled pretty well in the first half of the PSL without much luck. In his penultimate game he was mauled by Watson, but Sammy had actually dropped Watson off Asghar's first ball. Off the back of that Asghar was dropped from the side and his confidence took a knock.

I agree re Mickey's attitude to spinners, but Mushy (NCA) and Saqlain (PZ coach) are more than equipped to advise him.

Bilal Asif's retention suggests he could be in line to play tests.

 

[hadi123]

Mohammad Asghar is a good bowler but Imad Wasim and Mohammad Nawaz are ahead of him in the pecking order so them getting contracts ahead of him is justifiable.

 

[Zaz]

The fact is pakistan cant carry too many one dimensional players

You already have likes of amir hasan who are pre dominantly bowlers making the first team You then need no 8-9 to be able to bat n avge around 20-15

Unless your a murali or saqi in this day and age of flat wkts n big bats a spin bowler that bats a bit too has more value in limited overs cricket than just a spin bowler

 

[topspin]

Out of all the left arm finger spinners in Pakistan, there is no one who can turn it like Asghar. Nawaz isn't a big spinner of the ball, whereas Imad doesn't even spin it but has good control with an excellent economy in LOIs.

Asghar should be at the very least be part of the test squad in Asia.

 

[mak36]

Out of all the left arm finger spinners in Pakistan, there is no one who can turn it like Asghar. Nawaz isn't a big spinner of the ball, whereas Imad doesn't even spin it but has good control with an excellent economy in LOIs.

Asghar should be at the very least be part of the test squad in Asia.

Dropped from the squad without being given a chance.

Don't think he's quite ready for tests yet (for reasons given in OP) but removing him from central contracts is very harsh and short-sighted.

Last year in FC cricket, he played 5 matches, took 19 wickets at an average of 22.84 and s/r of 47.6. On seam-friendly wickets, that is a very good return.

 

[InziRules]

You can not afford a person who can't bat in cricket today. Add to that the fact that Nawaz and Imad are better in the field and you see why this happened. Mickey's trying to get fitness and willingness to improve in all facets as top priority.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I think there other facets of his game he can improve. As a bowler he's good, but there are other issues he needs to work with and improve.

 

[Tabishbeigh]

If Bilal Asif can get a contract everyone else should too .period !

 

[mak36]

For those saying he can't bat here's a video of him reverse sweeping Shadab for six.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x45u3uz

 

[Abdullah719]

For those saying he can't bat here's a video of him reverse sweeping Shadab for six.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x45u3uz

Aha, a [MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION] video.

That was more of a reverse-slog

 

[shaz619]

Whether he can bat or not is beside the point, his forte trumps both Nawaz and Imad as 'All-Rounders' . Quiet surprised really, would have expected him to be featured in our plans largely by now. I don't think he has made any Pakistan squads. Ideally he should be in our set up a lot more frequently and the coaches should be working with him a lot more but when he's not in the top tier plans then what can you do, it could be worse I suppose; e.g not having a contract at all so there's some hope for him.

 

[mak36]

Whether he can bat or not is beside the point, his forte trumps both Nawaz and Imad as 'All-Rounders' . Quiet surprised really, would have expected him to be featured in our plans largely by now. I don't think he has made any Pakistan squads. Ideally he should be in our set up a lot more frequently and the coaches should be working with him a lot more but when he's not in the top tier plans then what can you do, it could be worse I suppose; e.g not having a contract at all so there's some hope for him.

He's lost his contract. That's what this thread is about.

 

[mak36]

Aha, a [MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION] video.

That was more of a reverse-slog

I think he left just before I joined but all I ever hear is positive things about him. He's still around behind the scenes right?

Lol, whatever you want to call the shot we can agree he's not a mug with the bat!

 

[Square Drive]

I agree, and I noticed this as well.

Harsh treatment. Shouldn't have ommited him like that.

Alongside Yasir and Shadab, you need a specialist spinner for subcontinent Tests, and not an all-rounder. If not Zafar or Raza, Asghar should've been that spinner.

 

[Mamoon]

For those saying he can't bat here's a video of him reverse sweeping Shadab for six.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x45u3uz

His averages of 8,7 and 3 in F/C, LA and T20s respectively indicate that he is a genuine number 11.

An isolated video of him hitting Shadab for six means nothing. Number 11s have hit far better bowlers than Shadab for sixes and also scored half-centuries.

Yes he is young and can potentially improve, but he will not a lot of work and investment to be anywhere near Imad and Nawaz in batting, who are not great but still miles better.

To get ahead of those two in the pecking order, he has to make a huge impression with the ball. I agree that the PSL should not be the end of the world in terms of selection, but regardless of how we feel about it, PSL has become the main platform for players to get into into the Limited Overs squads.

Over the course of the three seasons, I don’t think Asghar has done any better than Nawaz with the bowl. Even if he was relatively better, it probably wasn’t enough to make up for his number 11 level batting.

Nawaz is not a fixture in the XI anyway, he has been more of a backup to Imad and has missed a lot more games than he has played over the last two years.

Pakistan do need a specialist spinner in Limited Overs and that is why Yasir has been brought back into the fold. He hasn’t done well in Limited Overs yet, but he was good in the last PSL and probably worth another chance.

 

[topspin]

Dropped from the squad without being given a chance.

Don't think he's quite ready for tests yet (for reasons given in OP) but removing him from central contracts is very harsh and short-sighted.

Last year in FC cricket, he played 5 matches, took 19 wickets at an average of 22.84 and s/r of 47.6. On seam-friendly wickets, that is a very good return.

This suggests he is more than ready to come bowl on drier wickets in UAE. I agree with the OP's technical and tactical analysis but I don't see who else should be the second spinner to Yasir. Shadab should be kept in the side and bat slightly higher up the order because of his batting ability and composure. I strongly believe his batting will become his greater asset eventually.

However, Pakistan needs to add variety to their spin attack whether it be a finger spinner or a left arm wrist spinner. We can rule out right arm off spinners because we don't have any decent ones coming through - seems like it is dying in Pakistan following the clamp down on illegal actions. Also they don't usually have much impact in UAE especially against right handers.

I'm not aware of any potential left arm chinamen in the mould of Kuldeep, so these leaves with the left arm finger spinners. Out of Asghar, Nawaz, Imad et al, I don't see anyone else who can partner Yasir other than Asghar.

Going in with 2 leg spinners would be risky because if the batsmen are on top of one of our leg spinners, chances are they'll have no trouble dealing with the other hence the need for diversifying the composition of the spin attack.

 

[Bewal Express]

I am sad that Asghar has gone backwards. He needs to stop bowling medium pace spin and get back to around 50mph and look to flight the ball.

 

[mak36]

His averages of 8,7 and 3 in F/C, LA and T20s respectively indicate that he is a genuine number 11.

An isolated video of him hitting Shadab for six means nothing. Number 11s have hit far better bowlers than Shadab for sixes and also scored half-centuries.

Yes he is young and can potentially improve, but he will not a lot of work and investment to be anywhere near Imad and Nawaz in batting, who are not great but still miles better.

To get ahead of those two in the pecking order, he has to make a huge impression with the ball. I agree that the PSL should not be the end of the world in terms of selection, but regardless of how we feel about it, PSL has become the main platform for players to get into into the Limited Overs squads.

Over the course of the three seasons, I don’t think Asghar has done any better than Nawaz with the bowl. Even if he was relatively better, it probably wasn’t enough to make up for his number 11 level batting.

Nawaz is not a fixture in the XI anyway, he has been more of a backup to Imad and has missed a lot more games than he has played over the last two years.

Pakistan do need a specialist spinner in Limited Overs and that is why Yasir has been brought back into the fold. He hasn’t done well in Limited Overs yet, but he was good in the last PSL and probably worth another chance.

I note humour isn't your strong suit.

As I made clear in the OP, I am focussing on bowling ability. Glad you agree with the need for a specialist spinner.

 

[Mamoon]

I note humour isn't your strong suit.

As I made clear in the OP, I am focussing on bowling ability. Glad you agree with the need for a specialist spinner.

There was nothing humorous about the way you posted a video of Asghar hitting Shadab for a six.

If this “humour isn't your strong suit” an attempt to save face, well, you do not need to do that.

If it was an actual attempt at humour, then I think you need to raise your sense of humour. It was not funny at all.

You might have made it “clear” in the OP but as I stated earlier, the premise of your argument is false because you can not compare a specialist bowler to a bowling all-rounder/genuine all-rounder; they are not competing for the same position.

Imad and Nawaz are competing with each other. A more pertinent question would be if Yasir deserves to be selected over Asghar as a specialist spinner, since the former has had a go already and perhaps Asghar would be a better a long-term investment in white ball cricket.

 

[mak36]

This suggests he is more than ready to come bowl on drier wickets in UAE. I agree with the OP's technical and tactical analysis but I don't see who else should be the second spinner to Yasir. Shadab should be kept in the side and bat slightly higher up the order because of his batting ability and composure. I strongly believe his batting will become his greater asset eventually.

Thanks. Agree re Shadab.

However, Pakistan needs to add variety to their spin attack whether it be a finger spinner or a left arm wrist spinner. We can rule out right arm off spinners because we don't have any decent ones coming through - seems like it is dying in Pakistan following the clamp down on illegal actions. Also they don't usually have much impact in UAE especially against right handers.

Bilal Asif is the one closest to national selection it seems.

Ashiq Ali is an excellent option.

Ahmer Ajaz is another one but he is not even playing domestic cricket.

I'm not aware of any potential left arm chinamen in the mould of Kuldeep, so these leaves with the left arm finger spinners. Out of Asghar, Nawaz, Imad et al, I don't see anyone else who can partner Yasir other than Asghar.

There are a few coming through but they aren't international-ready.

Going in with 2 leg spinners would be risky because if the batsmen are on top of one of our leg spinners, chances are they'll have no trouble dealing with the other hence the need for diversifying the composition of the spin attack.

Playing three spinners may be the way to go. As you mentioned earlier, play Shadab as an all-rounder, Yasir as a specialist and then play a specialist left arm spinner/off-spinner.

 

[mak36]

You might have made it “clear” in the OP but as I stated earlier, the premise of your argument is false because you can not compare a specialist bowler to a bowling all-rounder/genuine all-rounder; they are not competing for the same position.

Make your mind up. First you said there is a need for a specialist spinner, now you are saying something else. Looking at the likely starting XI if you want to play 2 spinners, the choice is either Shadab and a specialist spinner (what I am suggesting and which you initially seemed to agree with) or play Shadab and a pseudo-all rounder like Imad/Nawaz. So yes, they are competing for the same position, particularly all three of them are left-arm orthodox spinners.

Imad and Nawaz are competing with each other. A more pertinent question would be if Yasir deserves to be selected over Asghar as a specialist spinner, since the former has had a go already and perhaps Asghar would be a better a long-term investment in white ball cricket.

Once again it appears the detail has been lost on you. The discussion is about the recent central contracts announcement. Are you suggesting Yasir Shah should have lost his central contract?

 

[mak36]

I am sad that Asghar has gone backwards. He needs to stop bowling medium pace spin and get back to around 50mph and look to flight the ball.

Saqi is usually a good coach, so not sure what happened this PSL.

 

[Justcrazy]

Most teams are not good at playing spin , Pakistan need to get in another specialist spinner , against teams like Australia , SA , England etc.

 

[Boi]

Ghost is better but the selectors aren’t interested for some reason.

 

[ShahidDar08]

Zafar Gowhar is better than all.

 

[Markhor]

This is a cultural difference that Mickey Arthur hasn't come to grips with. In Asian Tests you have to play at least two specialist spinners. Mickey loves his all rounders however and never grew up in a spin culture.

Nawaz is definition of bits and pieces with his spin only effective on turners - but on flat wickets he is exposed.

Imad's action means he'll never get the ball to turn much but he is economical and has performed well against sides that've never faced him. However I suspect the more sides face him, they'll figure him out as a wicket to wicket bowler.

 

[Hasan123]

He is probably a better bowler but there all round ability has put them ahead in the pecking order.

 

[mak36]

So despite being dropped from the central contracts, he has taken part in (i) the NCA "Emerging Player" Camp and (ii) will now take part in the Army Camp in preparation for the Asia Cup/Aus test series.

I'm confused. Is he part of their plans or not?

 

[mak36]

Asghar scores his highest FC score of 41 (56) vs FATA to prove the doubters wrong More seriously, it will be interesting to see whether he has improved his batting.

Will definitely have a role to play tomorrow with the ball.

 

[mak36]

Asghar scores his highest FC score of 41 (56) vs FATA to prove the doubters wrong More seriously, it will be interesting to see whether he has improved his batting.

Will definitely have a role to play tomorrow with the ball.

3-19 (12 overs, half of which were maidens) to help his side beat FATA.

Played his role perfectly this match. In the first innings when the conditions suited seamers he kept it tight (15 overs, 30 runs) and in the second innings when spin came into play he became a wicket taking option.

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] as I mentioned to you above: last year in FC cricket, he played 5 matches, took 19 wickets at an average of 22.84 and s/r of 47.6. On seam-friendly wickets, that is a very good return. The pitches seem to be better this year, which should mean spinners come into the equation. Initial signs from Asghar are promising, let's see if he can keep it up.

 

[topspin]

3-19 (12 overs, half of which were maidens) to help his side beat FATA.

Played his role perfectly this match. In the first innings when the conditions suited seamers he kept it tight (15 overs, 30 runs) and in the second innings when spin came into play he became a wicket taking option.

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] as I mentioned to you above: last year in FC cricket, he played 5 matches, took 19 wickets at an average of 22.84 and s/r of 47.6. On seam-friendly wickets, that is a very good return. The pitches seem to be better this year, which should mean spinners come into the equation. Initial signs from Asghar are promising, let's see if he can keep it up.

So do you still think he's not ready for tests?

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Would select Mohammad Asghar hands down compared to Nawaz

Hell, I would select anyone over Nawaz. I don't understand the point of his selection!

 

[mak36]

So do you still think he's not ready for tests?

It's difficult to say without having watched the footage, but I would definitely have him in the squad. His recent stats are showing he is on track.

Ability was never in doubt. Asghar has the skill-set, control and varieties to be a quality test bowler. He just needs to bring it together and become more patient as a bowler. As I have mentioned, where Asghar needs to improve is his ability to set up a batsman; he needs to bowl his stock ball as his main delivery (whilst varying his pace) to tie down the batsman and then use his variations as wicket taking deliveries. In that sense, Herath is a perfect template for him.

All said and done, I probably would have played him in the Sri Lanka series. His non-selection there and then a poor PSL3 meant his confidence took a knock. He seems to have bounced back (based on the departmental One Day Cup) and if he keeps making a good show of himself in QeA then he should definitely be in contention. (As an aside, this is why the making the domestic season start earlier is a good move, as it lets players find form in the longer format before the UAE test series and the management can then act accordingly.)

I should add, when I started this thread my worry was he was out of the management's plans entirely. I am glad to see that is not the case.

 

[topspin]

It's difficult to say without having watched the footage, but I would definitely have him in the squad. His recent stats are showing he is on track.

Ability was never in doubt. Asghar has the skill-set, control and varieties to be a quality test bowler. He just needs to bring it together and become more patient as a bowler. As I have mentioned, where Asghar needs to improve is his ability to set up a batsman; he needs to bowl his stock ball as his main delivery (whilst varying his pace) to tie down the batsman and then use his variations as wicket taking deliveries. In that sense, Herath is a perfect template for him.

All said and done, I probably would have played him in the Sri Lanka series. His non-selection there and then a poor PSL3 meant his confidence took a knock. He seems to have bounced back (based on the departmental One Day Cup) and if he keeps making a good show of himself in QeA then he should definitely be in contention. (As an aside, this is why the making the domestic season start earlier is a good move, as it lets players find form in the longer format before the UAE test series and the management can then act accordingly.)

I should add, when I started this thread my worry was he was out of the management's plans entirely. I am glad to see that is not the case.

Yeah I agree it is difficult to say whether he will translate QeA form to tests however I don't see any other better options to bolster the spin attack encompassing Yasir. As mentioned previously I would have Shadab as a 3rd spin option and back his batting abilities up slightly higher up the order since I envisage this to be his greater asset sooner rather than later.

The other main options I see are Imad, Nawaz and Bilal Asif. They aren't big turners of the ball and unfortunately UAE is unforgivable for finger spinners who can't produce prodigious turn or find mystery in their bowling arsenal.

There's always the chance Asghar might end up a flop but we again we aren't exactly spoilt for choice. For me he has to play the UAE tests regardless of how tail end-esque his batting is. Having said that he scored 41 yesterday.

I think in LOIs he should only be in consideration for games in Asia where the extra spinner may be needed but ideally in that format it is even more important to have a spinning all rounded to bolster the batting depth in the XI.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Asghar should be around about the test setup. He's a decent spinner and clearly capable of doing a certain of roles.

 

[mak36]

Yeah I agree it is difficult to say whether he will translate QeA form to tests however I don't see any other better options to bolster the spin attack encompassing Yasir. As mentioned previously I would have Shadab as a 3rd spin option and back his batting abilities up slightly higher up the order since I envisage this to be his greater asset sooner rather than later.

The other main options I see are Imad, Nawaz and Bilal Asif. They aren't big turners of the ball and unfortunately UAE is unforgivable for finger spinners who can't produce prodigious turn or find mystery in their bowling arsenal.

There's always the chance Asghar might end up a flop but we again we aren't exactly spoilt for choice. For me he has to play the UAE tests regardless of how tail end-esque his batting is. Having said that he scored 41 yesterday.

I think in LOIs he should only be in consideration for games in Asia where the extra spinner may be needed but ideally in that format it is even more important to have a spinning all rounded to bolster the batting depth in the XI.

For tests, I would be surprised if one of Asghar/Asif didn't feature in the upcoming test series.

As I have said in OP, Asghar is a much better option than Imad and Nawaz. Imad is definitely not a test option. Nawaz is okay when it turns but bang average otherwise. Bilal has made improvements but Asghar is obviously a better spinner and has a higher ceiling.

One spinner you have omitted is Zafar Gohar. Zafar is the only spinner who competes with/outperforms Asghar, but he is not near the national team atm. Happily, he has recovered from his injury and is playing FC cricket this year. He is bowling long spells so thankfully he seems to have made a full recovery.

Coming to LOIs, I think Asghar is still finding his way but with time he will improve as shown by his recent domestic performances. IMO he should have been in the Asia Cup squad, even if it was just as a net bowler.

 

[gazza619]

Well what can i say comparing three players who all are just about above average. One is brown lentils, other is yellow lentils and third one is orange lentils. Hope this explains.

 

[Canistani Hero]

Asghar is suited to Tests.

 

[mak36]

Yeah I agree it is difficult to say whether he will translate QeA form to tests however I don't see any other better options to bolster the spin attack encompassing Yasir.

The other main options I see are Imad, Nawaz and Bilal Asif. They aren't big turners of the ball and unfortunately UAE is unforgivable for finger spinners who can't produce prodigious turn or find mystery in their bowling arsenal.

As a follow up to my original reply, actually my point wasn't that it is difficult to say whether he will translate QeA form to tests (that's a trite observation after all). The point I was trying to convey (and perhaps was a little unclear) was that based on what I have seen of him one thing he needs to learn is patience and the art of setting up a batsman, and that it's difficult to see whether he has made improvement in that regard without viewing the FC footage. But given he performed decently in FC last season and he has started the FC season well again this year it's probably safe to assume he has made improvements in that regard. If his good form in FC continues, I would definitely have him in the squad. As mentioned in my original reply, his main competitor (Zafar) has also started the season well so there should be healthy competition between the two.

As for your second point, Bilal is actually a big turner of the ball.

 

[topspin]

As a follow up to my original reply, actually my point wasn't that it is difficult to say whether he will translate QeA form to tests (that's a trite observation after all). The point I was trying to convey (and perhaps was a little unclear) was that based on what I have seen of him one thing he needs to learn is patience and the art of setting up a batsman, and that it's difficult to see whether he has made improvement in that regard without viewing the FC footage. But given he performed decently in FC last season and he has started the FC season well again this year it's probably safe to assume he has made improvements in that regard. If his good form in FC continues, I would definitely have him in the squad. As mentioned in my original reply, his main competitor (Zafar) has also started the season well so there should be healthy competition between the two.

As for your second point, Bilal is actually a big turner of the ball.

Bilal Asif's FC stats are a bit mediocre I have to say and at age 32 I don't think he would be a long term investment. So for me he shouldn't be up for consideration. From what I saw in the Zimbabwe series when he bowled he relied more on his flight and dip utilising his height with that high arm action. He certainly wasn't putting much revs on the ball, but I guess he's a different bowler now.

Good to see Gohar bowling well - he was excellent at U19 level. I'm surprised he hasn't had any games for Qalanders in the PSL as well. Would you say he's more in the mould of an Asghar (big turner of the ball) or Nawaz?

 

[mak36]

Bilal Asif's FC stats are a bit mediocre I have to say and at age 32 I don't think he would be a long term investment. So for me he shouldn't be up for consideration. From what I saw in the Zimbabwe series when he bowled he relied more on his flight and dip utilising his height with that high arm action. He certainly wasn't putting much revs on the ball, but I guess he's a different bowler now.

Regarding Bilal, this is what I wrote in his thread (watch the latest footage there):

I must admit Bilal has surprised me by how much he has improved his bowling in recent years under the tutelage of Mushy/the NCA.

Pakistan desperately need an offspinner in the test squad, and whilst we are now starting to see competition this year (Haseeb ur-Rehman, Waleed Khan, Sajid Khan and Ashiq Ali) I think Bilal is the most ready at the moment.

People will complain about his age (nearly 33) but he hasn't played very much cricket (only 21 FC games) and spinners can go on for years. At the very least he is a stop gap solution in that regard.

His FC average (31.08) and s/r (68.4) aren't exactly awe inspiring but if you look at his year by year stats they tell a different story:

Season Balls Mdns Runs Wkts BB Ave 5wI 10wM
2011-12 300 10 188 3 2-30 62.66 0 0
2013-14 703 30 272 12 4-54 22.66 0 0
2014-15 852 21 465 17 5-60 27.35 1 0
2016-17 1167 41 519 6 2-74 86.50 0 0
2017-18 730 18 306 14 6-70 21.85 1 1
2018-19 288 20 84 7 4-16 12.00 0 0

It's worth noting His S/R has been between the 40-50 range in recent years.

In the shorter format, he bowls a little quicker and the release point is slightly different. This helps him get drift and decent turn but he doesn't get the ball to drop as much. (Sidenote: I have previously said he is a much better option than the likes of Nawaz in the LOI squad and I still think that holds.)

In the longer format, he bowls slightly differently as shown by the above footage (thanks for posting it [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]). He is bowling it a lot slower and has more of a high arm action. As a result he is getting the ball drop a lot more (not to mention turn and bounce) but doesn't seem to be getting quite as much drift.

I have also seen him bowl a very effective arm ball/topspinner which goes straight on with the arm.

I think a lot of people are put off by his first entry into international cricket as a batsman. Forget that. Now imagine I told you there was a tall offspinner who gets the ball to spin big, bounce, dip and drift and bowls with good control. Oh, and he can score some handy runs down the order. Add in the fact the need for an off-spinner is accentuated given the number of l/h in Australia's line up, he selects himself for the upcoming series in my opinion.

The other question mark has been about the legality of his action but the fact of the matter is he passed the ICC's test first time without any problem. Second, whilst his action looks a little unusual having watched some of his bowling closely I think he has a hyperextending wrist which explains the unusual aesthetics.

All in all, Bilal has been performing well in all formats in domestic cricket the last couple of years and if he gets a chance (most likely in tests) I think he might surprise a few people.

Good to see Gohar bowling well - he was excellent at U19 level. I'm surprised he hasn't had any games for Qalanders in the PSL as well. Would you say he's more in the mould of an Asghar (big turner of the ball) or Nawaz?

He played for IU in PSL 3 (IIRC he missed PSL 2 due to injury) but only played two games. Still left an impression though; watch his spell vs PZ and you will see why people rate him so highly. He is the complete package and a smart bowler to boot.

One advantage Asghar has over him though is he gets more bounce due to his height.

 

[Major]

whatever happened to this kid? There was soo much talk about him after the first psl in UAE

 

[Major]

I remember he was part of some test squad but was dropped cause he was selected with very little experience, but now he has alot of wickets in the bag. Should be bought back in i guess

 

[Mamoon]

I remember he was part of some test squad but was dropped cause he was selected with very little experience, but now he has alot of wickets in the bag. Should be bought back in i guess

First quality that you have to look in a spinner and see how much spin he can generated. If you cannot turn the ball you will not have a long career at the top level.

Pakistani spinners have mastered the art not spinning the ball even on helpful surfaces.

Since Yasir, the only two spinners that I have seen with actual ability to impart side spin is Asghar and Qadir, and this is why I retain soft spot for Qadir in spite of his past shenanigans (“I want to play for Australia”) and his general lack of control because he can spin the ball.

In my opinion, everything else can be taught to a spinner besides the natural ability to impart spin and he has inherited that from his father.

It is easier to teach a spinner to improve control than it is to teach a gun barrel straight bowler to impart spin.

 

[Markhor]

whatever happened to this kid? There was soo much talk about him after the first psl in UAE

Recent QEA Trophy seasons:

2019 - 8 matches; 27 wickets at 38.81; 3.66 ER.
2020 - 5 matches; 15 wickets at 49.86; 3.38 ER.
2021 - 7 matches; 26 wickets at 39.07; 3.16 ER.
2022 - 1 match; 4 wickets at 34.50; 2.84 ER.

Can't see him in either QEA or Hanif Mohammad Trophy this season.

 

[MenInG]

In a recent interview with Saj

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806964749596270956

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806963393636528161

 

[RidiculousMan]

He's one of those forgotten. Nobody talks about him. Nobody cares anymore. He should've been given a chance years ago when he was sky high performing.

Props to Saj for interviewing him after all these years.