cricketjoshila
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Is MSD a sure shot selection for the WK or no.6 spot in any ODI All time XI?
For me, yes he is.
For me, yes he is.
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Is MS Dhoni assured a wicket-keeping or #6 spot in a all-time ODI XI?
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marlonbrowndo
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I would take Gilchrist with Bevan at #6
UN talkz
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He surely will feature in all time ODI XI...
for me it doesn't matter where he fits...
Dhoni>>>>>>>>> Gilly
for me it doesn't matter where he fits...
Dhoni>>>>>>>>> Gilly
Yeah he is as cool as bevan as a finisher plus the hitting abilitiy. Brilliant keeper too so he has less competition compared to gilchrist who has much tougher one with so many atg openers at top. Irrespective of that dhoni is the better player than gilchrist in odis.
Gilchrist is overrated in ODIs. There have been many better openers.
shaz619
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Gilchrist would open for me. And I'd not mind Dhoni or Bevan at no.6.
another drop catch
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M.S.Dhoni anytime
He already have movie based on his achievements ..
what does Gilly have ?
He already have movie based on his achievements ..
what does Gilly have ?
ToeCrusher2
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Gilchrist + Bevan < Dhoni
Dhoni = Keeper + Finisher + Greatest Captain in the history of limited overs cricket
shaz619
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Bevan made his debut in the 90s and performed against superior bowling attacks in tougher conditions. What a delusional statement, Imran Khan is the undisputed greatest. What has dhoni ever done, win a WC on the flat tracks of India in a home WC; no big deal Australia done just that more recently. Imran won in Australia with his back against the wall like a Cornered Tiger not a pampered diva that is fed home cooking and also during a period when ODI's were not batsman's game but more balanced vs superior talent.
Bevan 10x > Dhoni
Gilchrist 10x > Dhoni
Imran Khan 1x10^100000000000000000000000000000 > Dhoni
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I would go for gilly
Regardless of how good dhoni is his batting is soo painful to watch for me even in his peak days
He's trustable but the lad needs lot of time to settle in
Only think i have enjoyed in him is the way he keep against spinners
Nevertheless no no shame accepting that dhoni is a better cricketer than gilly in odi's
Regardless of how good dhoni is his batting is soo painful to watch for me even in his peak days
He's trustable but the lad needs lot of time to settle in
Only think i have enjoyed in him is the way he keep against spinners
Nevertheless no no shame accepting that dhoni is a better cricketer than gilly in odi's
ToeCrusher2
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Nope, Imran khan can't hold a candle in front of dhoni, dhoni is the undisputed GREATEST CAPTAIN in limited overs of ALL TIME #FACT
jnaveen1980
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If you really want to someone soaking the pressure while chasing there is very little that can match Dhoni. The job he does is very very difficult. One of the best percentage cricketer ever. Probably the best. He calculates the odds brilliantly , farms the strike, explodes at the right time. He did it time and again and again. One of the most dependable chaser ever regardless of collapses, regardless of steep asking rate.
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Poor statement
Whats the big deal of having a movie on your name to deal with such comparisons in a sport
As far as in my information a movie was made based on Milkha sigh's life but Usain bolt doesn't have one yet in his name.Does this mean Milkha sigh>Usain bolt
shaz619
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Nope, Imran khan can't hold a candle in front of dhoni, dhoni is the undisputed GREATEST CAPTAIN in limited overs of ALL TIME #FACT
Dhoni is the Hello Kitty of Cricket in comparison to Imran King+Tiger Khan
ToeCrusher2
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Gilchrist was way better batsmen than Dhoni.He has all the shots unlike agricultural Dhoni and have murdered ATG bowlers on non-pattas.I would take a prime Gilchrist without a heartbeat over Dhoni.
Gilchrist was far superior batsman+wicketkeeper. Doni wont get there in any format. In fact, Sangakara is also a superior batsman+wicketkeeper across formats than Dhoni.
As a finisher, Dhoni does not surpass Bevan or Hussey, who were more accomplished lower-order batsmen than Dhoni
As a finisher, Dhoni does not surpass Bevan or Hussey, who were more accomplished lower-order batsmen than Dhoni
Gilchrist averages 35. Dhoni averages 52. When the difference is that big, you can't make a comparison even considering different eras.
sensible-indian-fan
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Curious question:
Do you consider Rohit Sharma (the opener who averages 50+) to be a better ODI batsman than Jayasuriya?
Was Sanga as good a power-hitter as Dhoni? Also dont remember him chasing big scores much and Dhoni runs faster than him.Other than that he trumps Dhoni in every other department.
Regarding Beven, he was great in 90s but I dont know he had the power hitting to be successful in this era.
Your choice but a prime dhoni has to be one of first choices in world 11 team. When any of them fires usually they win their team the match. So the deciding factor must be consistency which you have to give to dhoni.
Rohit sharma is more consistent than jayasuria which of course has a lot do with flat potches. However impact wise jayasuria was way ahead. The fact that he had similar strike rate to modern day openers is quite an incredible achievment. However when comparing two players a lot of other factors have to be seen. Gilchrist and dhoni have played similar number of matches while rohit has not played even half the matches sanath has. If he keeps performing the way with a bit more positive start to his innings he can surpass jayasuria though very difficult to do so.
sensible-indian-fan
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Hmm...let's see
Sachin
Jayasuriya/Gilly
Ponting
Kohli/ABD
Viv
Dhoni/Bevan
Pollock/Kapil/Klusener
McGrath
Wasim
Warne (leggie + clutch)
Saqlain/Murali (offie slot)
Looks like he doesn't have a guaranteed spot unlike SRT, Ponting, Viv, Wasim, McGrath, Warne.
Sachin
Jayasuriya/Gilly
Ponting
Kohli/ABD
Viv
Dhoni/Bevan
Pollock/Kapil/Klusener
McGrath
Wasim
Warne (leggie + clutch)
Saqlain/Murali (offie slot)
Looks like he doesn't have a guaranteed spot unlike SRT, Ponting, Viv, Wasim, McGrath, Warne.
sensible-indian-fan
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Why are you so unsure bhai?
So many conditions but still unsure about rating him higher.
That's your gut speaking having watched both bat.
Listen to it.
Jayasuriya is from another planet compared to Rohit. The latter has a reputation of being a poor player of seam and spin, isn't clutch, eats up too many deliveries upfront. He has to truly play out of his skin in some pressure situations to be better than Jayasuriya.
He actually has one. He is far better when you require big hitting skills to close an innings batting first and while chasing bigger targets. Both are equally great at handling pressure and dealing with match situation in best possible way. Also inclusion of dhoni allows jayasuria in the team providing an equally destructive opener wrt to gilchrist and a handy bowling option to make team more balanced.
Why are you so unsure bhai?
So many conditions but still unsure about rating him higher.
That's your gut speaking having watched both bat.
Listen to it.
Jayasuriya is from another planet compared to Rohit. The latter has a reputation of being a poor player of seam and spin, isn't clutch, eats up too many deliveries upfront. He has to truly play out of his skin in some pressure situations to be better than Jayasuriya.
I have not mentioned in any condition that he is better than sanath. All i said was that he is more consistent which ia true although more due to flatter pitches than his talent or ability. Jayasuria was much better as a pressure player no doubt. However jayasuria also was not the most technically correct either but as i said had far greater impact.
Also rohit can not be presently compared to him as he has not even played half the number of matches. All the other points you mentioned are correct and i agree with you on all of those.
Having watched them bat, I would go with Jayasuriya. But on that basis, Shaun Marsh looks so much better than Smith. At some point, you just have to look at performances, and going by that, Jayasuriya and Gilchrist have to be behind others like Amla.
sensible-indian-fan
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I am not convinced Bevan can't accelerate in this era. He may not do it as much as Dhoni but that guy was insane. He simply was impossible to get out. Plus was a super super super clutch batsman.
2 iconic knocks in 4 WC knockout games (1996 against Ambrose...1999 against Donald).
It would be ideal to have both in the lineup but team combo makes it a bit hard. Matter of choice.
The top 7 ODI batsmen, in any order, are Viv, Sachin, AB, Kohli, Ponting, Dhoni and Bevan. Out of those, Ponting was a great captain, and Dhoni is one of the greatest LOI captains to play the game, one of the best keepers against spin and a great keeper overall. He should be one of the first picks.
Warne isn't a guaranteed pick. The best ODI bowling attack has to be McGrath, Garner, Wasim and Murali.
sensible-indian-fan
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Not really. Smith has performed better than Marsh. Averages 6 more runs and SR of 10 more. Plus performed in WC including finals. Marsh did more in IPL sure.
Comparison of performances have to be done keeping into account context. When you add context, Jaya and Gilly are better ODI bats than Amla (who himself is actually a very good ODI bat but needs to perform better in pressure..a LOT lot better).
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Stallion__
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sensible-indian-fan
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Kohli and ABD haven't conclusively proven they aren't chokers at the highest stage. ABD has great stats, has a great knock in SF but isn't generally great when the heat is on. Kohli is even worse. I would surely not give them 2 guaranteed spots at this point. Maybe 4 years down the line, everything will change.
Warne, Murali and Saqi is all dependent on how you view them. Warne is the most clutch of them all while 90s Saqi is probably the best spinner of them all. Murali was consistent throughout.
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Yes the combo would make it difficult to make the best possible 11. I agree that he was a super clutch player but as i said before dhoni is also not that bad. He has done it on the biggest of stages even after struggling throughout the tournament. Bevan may have been able to accelerate but i feel in this era his impact would not have been the same compared to dhoni. However there is nothing apart from big hitting which can be considered as a difference. And as yku said it is matter of choice.
Buffet
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Probably the best ODI captain in history.
Among the two best finishers in history of ODI.
Add keeping.
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Guaranteed spot in All time XI and sure to be the captain for me.
Among the two best finishers in history of ODI.
Add keeping.
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Guaranteed spot in All time XI and sure to be the captain for me.
sensible-indian-fan
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I never said that.
On the contrary, I said the opposite. You rate Sanath higher. And you are unsure if Rohit will ever be rated higher.
jnaveen1980
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Hey when it comes to stumping Dhoni is still the best. !! Gilly is an opener in the ODIs. Dhoni is a later order batsman. So there is no comparison there. We don't know how Gilly would have done in the back end as a finisher . Bevan . give me a break. He could manage asking rates like 4.5 not like 6. Hussey has very little sample compared to Dhoni. I would rather go with inform Yuvi rather than Hussey.
Yeah and with a great wc both can be considered to be part of all time 11 squad. A great world cup with vlutch performance in knock outs can lead kohli to be the goat as well .
On pattas, may be. But not on pitches where there is movement.There is a reason why Dhoni was a colossal failure in Tests outside India and it is his inability to play movement.And also Gilly was a much better keeper especially against Fast bowlers.
Ok probably i did not read it properly.
JaDed
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Dhoni in Asia,Gilly outside, as a captain Dhoni makes the team in England coz Champ trophy ,so based on that
Dhoni yes.
Dhoni yes.
What do tests have to do with this?
If Dhoni is not good outside of India, then why does he average 50 away from home while Glchrist averages 35?
Ab Fan
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He is up there. It's a matter of preference. Who will lead is also an issue as I see only two major contenders- Ponting and Dhoni himself.So you need to have one of the two.
Dhoni is not an opener but a finisher. He is not best against moving ball but he does not have to face it much except say 1 in 30 innings. However he has usually done much better in difficult conditions in one days compared to tests. Gilchrist was better but not on completely different level compared to dhoni in keeping considering fast bowlers. Similarly dhoni a better spin keeper which evens out their keeping skills. Dhoni according to me is a better player among two when it comes to odi cricket. As i said before both highly destructive but dhoni more consistent.
sensible-indian-fan
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Dhoni better ODI captain than Ponting I would say.
He is probably the greatest ever ODI captain.
He is probably the greatest ever ODI captain.
What joke, even within India M Azharuddin and Ganguly were superior captains than Dhoni.
Dhoni just happened to be captain when batting talent in India started flourishing and cricket became a batsman's game, hence got hold of a few ICC cups
So who do you consider to be best?
Ab Fan
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Ganguly is a better test captain while in ODIs I would have MSD.Azhar doesn't come into discussion.
A clutch player who was great in 90s would very predictably be a great today, given thicker bats, flat pitches, shorter boundaries, and rules increasingly in batsmen's favour (free hit, max 1 bouncer, etc)
CricFan2012
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My secret love for Dhoni is unquestionable, sometimes dangerous and even creepy, but he has feasted in an era of mediocre bowlers, rules favouring batting, while Gilly has played against ATG bowlers, also has more WC contributions than DHoni.
This ia the case in test matches. However dhoni is much better as a player and equivalent if not better odi captain than imran khan. Imran hardly comes into discussion for an all time 11 in odis whereas dhoni is almost a sure selection for most. I
Haven't followed cricket before 90s. Since 90s, it ought to be Imran Khan, the way he instilled fighting spirit in a bunch of youngsters to win a WC in Australia. Also his spotting of talent in those days has still been unmatched, brought the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Inzi out of nowhere
You are forgetting the fact that Gilly kept for Shane Warne, the best spinner the world has ever seen and somebody who turned the ball miles.
It is a big misconception that imran brought all these players. I have heard all about their stories and do not remember all but i am sure miandad was behind inclusion of imran rather than imran. Probably one of the other two was also not their due to imran.
Then imran did instill confidence but it was not like that he had a medicore team to captain. A captain can only be as good as his team. He was sure an inspirational leader who mostly lead from front but in 1992 wc he had a lot of luck along with few great individual performances from his teammates . I have mentioned this bcoz it is the wc win which makes him contender to be among top odi captains. Another point to remember is that dhoni also won a ct with relatively inexperienced team and that too remaining unbeaten.
In tests he is head and shoulders above dhoni but in limited overs they are atleast equal if dhoni is not the greater of two.
Stallion__
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Not assured but a strong contender
You are also forgetting that he had lot of problems early on and adjusted after some time. Similarly dhoni has been pretty good keeping for indian fast bowlers and would have adjusted had there been an express fast bowler or someone extracting bounce or movement.
Nope.Dropped lot in Engalnd series and his total drop percentage is 18 which is the highest among the keepers and Gilly's is just 12%. You can read that stat below.
http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1056115/tracking-the-misses
The_Odd_One
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Yes, Bevan at 5, Dhoni at 6, and Symonds at 7. This team will almost always finish games.
There might not be a great difference but i feel in one days dhoni record is better. Please post those stats if you can find them as it will show who really is better in shorter format.
Vayuu
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if that's how you see it then kapil is ahead of imran Khan, won against the mighty windies in the final defending a paltry score not to forget played one of the best innings of Odi in literally a, knockout so kapil 1X100000000^1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000>imran
IndianWillow
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What is Imran's comparison to Dhoni as as ODI captain? Imran's greatness in tests unfortunately gets linked to his ODI captaincy. Using a team full of trunders and 'FTBs' to win so many ODI/T20 tournaments was no ordinary achievement for Dhoni!!
I would rate Dhoni ahead of Bevan. Bevan too wasn't technically great as a batsman as you can see why he is not considered a test batsman. Dhoni is a power version of Bevan, capable of hitting big shots at will.
Dhoni vs Gilly is a tricky comparison, they are suited for different roles. They simply can't play the role of each other. As wicket keepers, Gilchrist possibly ahead but not very sure - Dhoni keeping to spinners is of high quality. Jayasuriya can replace Gilly imho, but Dhoni as keeper/captain/batsman combo has no parallel.
My All time XI would like-
Jayasuriya
Sachin
Viv Richards
Ponting (c)
De villiers
Dhoni(vc/wk)
Kapil Dev/Botham
Warne
Murali
Akram
Ambrose
----
Pacy wicket - replace Murali with Imran
Batting paradise - bring in Lara for Jaya, replace Murali with Imran.
I would rate Dhoni ahead of Bevan. Bevan too wasn't technically great as a batsman as you can see why he is not considered a test batsman. Dhoni is a power version of Bevan, capable of hitting big shots at will.
Dhoni vs Gilly is a tricky comparison, they are suited for different roles. They simply can't play the role of each other. As wicket keepers, Gilchrist possibly ahead but not very sure - Dhoni keeping to spinners is of high quality. Jayasuriya can replace Gilly imho, but Dhoni as keeper/captain/batsman combo has no parallel.
My All time XI would like-
Jayasuriya
Sachin
Viv Richards
Ponting (c)
De villiers
Dhoni(vc/wk)
Kapil Dev/Botham
Warne
Murali
Akram
Ambrose
----
Pacy wicket - replace Murali with Imran
Batting paradise - bring in Lara for Jaya, replace Murali with Imran.
shaz619
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That's not how history remembers Kapil unfortunately, just another Indian trundler who can smash a few. You won't find him in many final XI's, Kapil is a little pony.
Neither would you find imran in any odi 11 . Kapil has much more chance of being in world 11 compared to imran. Imran's only chance is captaincy which dhoni is equivalent at if not better.
I often wonder that although imran was best of his era in tests as a complete player he was not even great let alone atg material in one days. His bowling stats do not do justice to what he achieved in one days but i guess its a fair representation of the fact that he was not great in one days. Perhaps history would have remembered him not too greatly if inzamam had not won pak the match against nz where imran tried his best to ensure a pak loss.
shaz619
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Well, he still won a WC in Australia for his country despite him not being so good in that format allegedly. Were Kapil to get in ahead of him in a ODI XI who cares, Test's are the ultimate format anyway.
Convict
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Three world cup campaigns for three world cup victories.
Rightarmfast
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Gilly made his debut in 1996, and Dhoni in 2004. I suppose in a span of 8 years, all the ATG bowlers vanished from the face of the earth?
jnaveen1980
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Until Dhoni India was hardly a good chasing side. He changed the dynamics. Impact that Dhoni created will last much longer. India is still a good chasing side.
jnaveen1980
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He didn't exactly represent a poor side. He was representing an ATG side.
captain.hansolo
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why would you want Gilchrist to open when the best openers in the history of ODI are cricket are: Sachin Tendulkar and either one of Saeed Anwar, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Graeme Smith, Gary Kirsten, Mathew Hayden, Virender Sehwag and Saurav Ganguly?
captain.hansolo
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well lets be honest, they sort of stole that 2007 campaign, and the 1999 campaign was far from convincing. however 2003 they were invincible, and while in 2007 they were twice as much more invincible, the final was decided in a rather disgraceful manner.
shaz619
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There are two opening positions, not one.
captain.hansolo
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Kapil Dev does not belong in an all time great ODI. He was a very effective bowling allrounder, but he did benefit from a long career, significant exposure and representing a side that did not have a great deal of competition for him.
I do not know enough of Imran's exploits in ODIs, however, i would not choose him as captain. Better captains have played the game, better captains play the game.
I said that in comparison with imran kapil has better chance than him to enter an all time odi 11. His chances are realistically very low but not impossible.
I also agree that one day cricket has seen better captains than imran khan.
Vayuu
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Oh don't worry, history do remember him like that ,looks like a hit the nerve of some one, and kapil the odi player was 10 time the player imran was, kapil the all-rounder was No 1 all-rounder in odi's for 10 freaking years.
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