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Is Mustafizur Rahman more talented than Mohammad Amir was?

Too early to compare. Both are among 2 of the best in the world atm and thats what matters. Lets make this comparison after 5 years
 
Hawkeye said:
Thanks.

I hope people stop comparing Mustafiz with King Amir (the idol of Mustafiz). :amir

Fizz is good for T20s, no doubt.
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Is he getting those wickets against the IPL teams though on these Indian pitches? Not to anger any Pakistan fans here but even Tamim was owning people in PSL, let's also put the leagues both of them are currently playing in to perspective.

In the big stage world t20s Mustafizur did outperform Amir when it mattered. Not implying Mustafizur is better than aamir through all this but saying Amir is better based on some Pakistan domestic matches is not the correct way to go about it.
 
Hawkeye said:
5-fer for Amir I think. Or was it 4?

The best thing? THEY WERE TOP ORDER wickets... he took out the best bats.
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5-fer, 4 of them with new ball & against top order - must have bowled well. Also, I think 3 of the 4 was caught behind, which indicates he has moved it & there was quite bit of carry on this dead slow PCB style wicket.

Only question mark is the top 4, doesn't give much confidence....
 
Bangladesh_Fan said:
Not implying Mustafizur is better than aamir through all this but saying Amir is better based on some Pakistan domestic matches is not the correct way to go about it.
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Exactly. So let's not compare - Fizz has a lot to prove in ODis and Tests, the premier formats of cricket.

He's good in T20s on Asian pitches, no doubt.
 
MMHS said:
5-fer, 4 of them with new ball & against top order - must have bowled well. Also, I think 3 of the 4 was caught behind, which indicates he has moved it & there was quite bit of carry on this dead slow PCB style wicket.

Only question mark is the top 4, doesn't give much confidence....
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No Pak batsman in any top 4 lineup would give much confidence. :najam
 
Hawkeye said:
Thanks.

I hope people stop comparing Mustafiz with King Amir (the idol of Mustafiz). :amir

Fizz is good for T20s, no doubt.
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yes Mustafiz who the hell is he ? he would have shown his place by pakistani batsman if he were bowling in Pakistan domestic against pakistani world beater batsman!
Mustafiz a mediocre guy who only know how to fool poor quality batsman like Rohit, De coq, dawan, Amla, De villers, Raina, Dhoni ets etc.
Anyway Mustafizur is far superoir to AAmir in ODI and T20 that is fact now you appreciate or not that what he has done so far with talking by ball not by big mouth. About test he hasn't play much so lets wait for that too.
 
Ashraful_Rox said:
Not trying to put down, just stating the truth. Amir didn't show up in World Cup, he crumbles under pressure. 8 overs for 80 runs against Aussies and Kiwis, looked tired. The way you guys hyped him as if he is the next Wasim, Imran etc. Sorry to say but Bumrah looked a lot better than your Amir. Amir is Pakistan's best but I rate him lower than Bumrah, Musta and the legend :nehra

Hyped him so much here and made me watch him bowl only to get spanked. Unadkat at least would have picked up a wicket here and there against Aussies or Kiwis but Amir :133:
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Ease up on what you're smoking mate. Bumrah and 'The Fizz' would have got smacked on those pan-cakes too. Amir just recently decimated a pretty good Indian top-order to pieces.

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Mustafiz at the moment is ahead of Amir in Limited Overs, but of course we will not accept it.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Ease up on what you're smoking mate. Bumrah and 'The Fizz' would have got smacked on those pan-cakes too. Amir just recently decimated a pretty good Indian top-order to pieces.

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Our top order is being carried by Kohli (at least in T20s) and Amir couldn't do much to him.
 
Sachin136 said:
Our top order is being carried by Kohli (at least in T20s) and Amir couldn't do much to him.
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So the three wickets that Amir took all have an asterisk on them, which says we don't count these?
 
Sachin136 said:
Our top order is being carried by Kohli (at least in T20s) and Amir couldn't do much to him.
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Does it really give people satisfaction in putting someone down just to prove a point? Mustafizur can be good without berating a good bowler in Amir. Childish.

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Fun Facts: Mustafizur has a bowling average of less than 15 in all three formats of international cricket.

He also has an average below 20 in each and every type of format, international + domestic combined.

For a 20 year old that's impressive
 
Syed1 said:
So the three wickets that Amir took all have an asterisk on them, which says we don't count these?
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No, but saying that Amir "decimated the Indian top order to pieces" is too dramatic when he just got the wickets of Rohit, Rahane and Raina (who failed the entire tournament).
 
Belawal2014 said:
But...that is the top order no?
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If by top order you only mean the openers, sure. I think of the top order as the first 3 or 4 batsmen. That includes Kohli. Since the rest of the top order is so feeble, it isn't fair to say Amir destroyed India's top order despite hardly troubling Kohli.

According to Wikipedia the top order means positions 3, 4 and 5. I don't think that's what he meant though.
 
Sachin136 said:
If by top order you only mean the openers, sure. I think of the top order as the first 3 or 4 batsmen. That includes Kohli. Since the rest of the top order is so feeble, it isn't fair to say Amir destroyed India's top order despite hardly troubling Kohli.

According to Wikipedia the top order means positions 3, 4 and 5. I don't think that's what he meant though.
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All but Kohli fell to Amir. I'd pretty much say he demolished your top order. if positions 3, 4,5 are the top order, then what positions are the middle order?
 
If Amir is successful in LOI in the Australia series over there then we'll see. Since oz wickets will be flat like always now
 
Belawal2014 said:
All but Kohli fell to Amir. I'd pretty much say he demolished your top order. if positions 3, 4,5 are the top order, then what positions are the middle order?
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50% of india's top order is kohli and I am sure many of the indian fans will agree with me. I would go as far as to say kohli's wicket = rohit + rahane + raina's wicket considering the form going into that match
 
Messiah said:
50% of india's top order is kohli and I am sure many of the indian fans will agree with me. I would go as far as to say kohli's wicket = rohit + rahane + raina's wicket considering the form going into that match
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In 2016 India made 2144 runs in T20s http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting and Kohli made 625 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

That's around 30%. So Kohli's wicket is worth around 4-5 batsmen in T20s. When he is one third of the entire batting order (let alone the top order), it doesn't make sense to say that Amir demolished the top order.
 
Sachin136 said:
In 2016 India made 2144 runs in T20s http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting and Kohli made 625 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

That's around 30%. So Kohli's wicket is worth around 4-5 batsmen in T20s. When he is one third of the entire batting order (let alone the top order), it doesn't make sense to say that Amir demolished the top order.
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That's a silly excuse lol. Cricket is played on the field not on paper or stats or what not. Fact is, he took out the top 3/4 of your batsman. To me, that is demolishing the top order.
 
Syed1 said:
He doesn't bowl 13 dot balls on the trot and goes for 3 runs of his 3 overs in 90% of his matches if that is what you are imploying
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Who cares about 13 dots up front? How do you know the batsmen weren't just leaving the balls thinking it was a Test match? You are the same busta who claimed economical bowlers are nothing special in t20s. If the next 9 balls go for sixes, you still get smashed for 54 off your 4 overs. So 13 dots doesn't mean anything.

Fizz has 3 five fers from 9 ODIs, on flat patta tracks where the par score is close to 300. He had 4 fer barely any in the only Test match he's played, also on a flat track. T20 is not real cricket, but he's doing well there too. He made his debut a mere 12 months back and has already been on a hattrick 5 times or so.

By comparison Amir has ZERO five fers in twice as many ODIs. Just an FYI, nothing more.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Does it really give people satisfaction in putting someone down just to prove a point? Mustafizur can be good without berating a good bowler in Amir. Childish.

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Looks like he is still recovering from the defeat that india got at hands of west indies in world t20. :))) :))) First the u19 final and now the semi final of world t20. P Thats why his view of top order is different! :srt
#GreenRoars [MENTION=136466]Khyam[/MENTION] [MENTION=139288]Abdul[/MENTION]

is there anything wrong with this post?

Then let me know plz
 
Belawal2014 said:
That's a silly excuse lol. Cricket is played on the field not on paper or stats or what not. Fact is, he took out the top 3/4 of your batsman. To me, that is demolishing the top order.
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What do u mean played on field and not on stats. What he said are the facts. Why are you brushing off facts as silly excuse? Fact is, amir couldn't take out kohli who is half the top order and hence LOST the match. To me, that still counts as being the loser and hence he didn't demolish anything
 
Messiah said:
What do u mean played on field and not on stats. What he said are the facts. Why are you brushing off facts as silly excuse? Fact is, amir couldn't take out kohli who is half the top order and hence LOST the match. To me, that still counts as being the loser and hence he didn't demolish anything
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lol what? A team consists of 11 players. Kohli is 1 of the 11 players, not half the team. Stop spouting rubbish. Just because Kohli is that good, doesn't mean Amir shouldn't get credit for taking our Rohit, Rahane and Raina which are 3/4 of your TOP order.
 
Sachin136 said:
No, but saying that Amir "decimated the Indian top order to pieces" is too dramatic when he just got the wickets of Rohit, Rahane and Raina (who failed the entire tournament).
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lol what?

If you take 3 out of 4 top order wickets, it is called demolishing top order.
 
Mustafiz is certainly the best bowler so far in this IPL. He is not only economical but the one of leading wicket takers.
Good going.
 
i think we sdhould stop comparing mustafiz with amir since that can never be objective. Just concentrate on individual achievements.
 
Sachin136 said:
In 2016 India made 2144 runs in T20s http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting and Kohli made 625 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

That's around 30%. So Kohli's wicket is worth around 4-5 batsmen in T20s. When he is one third of the entire batting order (let alone the top order), it doesn't make sense to say that Amir demolished the top order.
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So by going this logic, Ish Sodhi was the best bowler in WT20? :)
 
He definitely has more variety and skills but despite that Amir will still have the better overall career
 
Messiah said:
What do u mean played on field and not on stats. What he said are the facts. Why are you brushing off facts as silly excuse? Fact is, amir couldn't take out kohli who is half the top order and hence LOST the match. To me, that still counts as being the loser and hence he didn't demolish anything
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He took three top order wickets in his first 2 overs. He created a couple of chances off Kohli as well. Every delivery in his first three overs looked like a wicket taking one. If Kohli survived that spell, it is his own strength and not Amir's weakness. When Kohli himself confessed that it was one of the best spells he ever faced, who are you and I to judge? I firmly believe that if Amir had Kohli dismissed, he could have ended with a 5 or 6 fer in that game. It was that good a spell.
 
Belawal2014 said:
All but Kohli fell to Amir. I'd pretty much say he demolished your top order. if positions 3, 4,5 are the top order, then what positions are the middle order?
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If by top order you only mean the openers, sure. I think of the top order as the first 3 or 4 batsmen. That includes Kohli. Since the rest of the top order is so feeble, it isn't fair to say Amir destroyed India's top order despite hardly troubling Kohli.

According to Wikipedia the top order means positions 3, 4 and 5. I don't think that's what he meant though.
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Wikipedia eh?? :)))

A half decent account on wikipedia can edit such things..........wikipedia should not be the benchmark to decide whats top order
 
Belawal2014 said:
lol what? A team consists of 11 players. Kohli is 1 of the 11 players, not half the team. Stop spouting rubbish. Just because Kohli is that good, doesn't mean Amir shouldn't get credit for taking our Rohit, Rahane and Raina which are 3/4 of your TOP order.
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I think he's being sarcastic.

He's a Pakistan fan.
 
Sachin136 said:
Our top order is being carried by Kohli (at least in T20s) and Amir couldn't do much to him.
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Neither Amir nor Fizzzzzzz have been able to get Kohli out yet till date :)

Just shows as good a bowler you are...just one level below the champ :kohli

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#GreenRoars said:
Acha, Sodhi got him out, so he is one level above the champ? :)
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Not that way. In an odd game anything can happen.

But Amir bowled against Kohli in 3 games. 2009 CT, Asia Cup and T20 WC. Neither once he got him out.

Fizzzzz (add infinite Z's :)) ) played 5 innings against Virat including IPL but yet to get him out.



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#GreenRoars said:
Acha, Sodhi got him out, so he is one level above the champ? :)
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no that logic applies to mcgrath. See according to indians, mostly, sachin is the best batsman who ever played cricket.

So subconsciousy [MENTION=139052]Acricketfan[/MENTION] thinks that sine mcgrath dismissed sachin too many times... thus he thinks that mcgrath is the greatest bowler ever :))) :))) :)) :srt

Sigh!!
 
pacesensation said:
no that logic applies to mcgrath. See according to indians, mostly, sachin is the best batsman who ever played cricket.

So subconsciousy [MENTION=139052]Acricketfan[/MENTION] thinks that sine mcgrath dismissed sachin too many times... thus he thinks that mcgrath is the greatest bowler ever :))) :))) :)) :srt

Sigh!!
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McGrath dismissed Lara also equal number of times as Sachin. Obviously he couldnt dismiss Ponting because they played in same team. So a bowler who pics 2 out of 3 best batsman in that era frequently, he has to be rated highly no? Definitely more than bowlers who mostly boosted stats by picking tailenders :steyn

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When it comes to test cricket forget Fizz not even Starc or anyone else can match Amir's class...there was a reason that Oz and English Commies and Micheal holding were going crazy over Amir we he toured there in 2010...Micheal holding wad literally in tears when he heard the news of King Amir being caught in Spot fixing scandal...

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Indian_Supporter said:
Neither Amir nor Fizzzzzzz have been able to get Kohli out yet till date :)

Just shows as good a bowler you are...just one level below the champ :kohli

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Junaid > Amir + Musta

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Deewana said:
Amir is the greatest test fast bowler in the last decade or so...his inswing is unplayable at times...alot of sour grapes out there...Starc is better than both Fizz and Amir in ODIs...Fizz is better than both in t20s...game set match
/ Thread Closed

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Last decade? So you mean Amir is already a better test bowler than Dale Steyn? :murali

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Deewana said:
Amir is the greatest test fast bowler in the last decade or so...his inswing is unplayable at times...alot of sour grapes out there...Starc is better than both Fizz and Amir in ODIs...Fizz is better than both in t20s...game set match
/ Thread Closed

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Keep it serious mate
 
Mustafiz ur rehman might not have the swing.

He bowls great yorkers.
He is not a trundler ( was bowling above 140 the other days)
Bowls great slower ones with immaculate line and length.
Some of his cutters actually have a decent amount pace and almost impossible to pick.
He bowls some good seam up deliveries

And above all at 20 years of age he is already bamboozling the seasoned pros.

A brilliant brilliant bowler.

I still have some doubt whether he will be as good in the test format but the way he is progressing you never know. He could be the best bowler of the generation.
 
Indian_Supporter said:
Not that way. In an odd game anything can happen.

But Amir bowled against Kohli in 3 games. 2009 CT, Asia Cup and T20 WC. Neither once he got him out.

Fizzzzz (add infinite Z's :)) ) played 5 innings against Virat including IPL but yet to get him out.



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Junaid khan

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Deewana said:
Amir is the greatest test fast bowler in the last decade or so...his inswing is unplayable at times...alot of sour grapes out there.
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How do people even type these things with a straight face
 
Deewana said:
So VK after all is a FTB..even big nas scored 100s on unplayable pitches..

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Yes Big Nas is better than Kohli and you are the best poster on PP.
 
Indiafan said:
Doctored pitches where BK was unplayable should't count
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Strange argument by many posters here, some saying Amir and Fizz didn't take wicket of Kohli so they are not better, when mentioned that JK did thrice in a row so they say that were doctored pitches. Now if some one say that Nasir hit tons on those DOCTORED pitches which means Kohli is an FTB,
What will be next??

What type of reason it is that those were doctored pitches so that should not be counted???? Then i guess all centuries of great players on flat wicket should not be counted?? All wickets on turning tracks should not be counted??

Poor Fizzz and Amir, i think they need to take 10-fer in order to post a concrete reason.

You were saying to other member that how people can write such stuff with straight face.

I guess sir, you should also think about it that how some can write such hilarious reasons or excuses with straight face :)

As per OP, no doubt atm Fizz is best LOI bowler in Asia, i hope this kid will improve more and more. Would love to see how he will perform in Test matches especially in away conditions, i am sure he will perform better and better.
 
#GreenRoars said:
Strange argument by many posters here, some saying Amir and Fizz didn't take wicket of Kohli so they are not better, when mentioned that JK did thrice in a row so they say that were doctored pitches. Now if some one say that Nasir hit tons on those DOCTORED pitches which means Kohli is an FTB,
What will be next??

What type of reason it is that those were doctored pitches so that should not be counted???? Then i guess all centuries of great players on flat wicket should not be counted?? All wickets on turning tracks should not be counted??

Poor Fizzz and Amir, i think they need to take 10-fer in order to post a concrete reason.

You were saying to other member that how people can write such stuff with straight face.

I guess sir, you should also think about it that how some can write such hilarious reasons or excuses with straight face :)

As per OP, no doubt atm Fizz is best LOI bowler in Asia, i hope this kid will improve more and more. Would love to see how he will perform in Test matches especially in away conditions, i am sure he will perform better and better.
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anything that makes their team/players look bad doesn't count...that is the Indian way of doing analysis
 
Well, last 5 IPL matches, i noticed Mustafiz did not get wickets in his 1st over. He only gets wickets when batsman try to hit it or last few overs, when everyone tries to hit sixes.

Haven't seen a single swing bowling or beat batsman with swings. So he won't be effective in England or Australia, he is only good in sub continent, where bowls tend to be slow and low bounce.

But Amir case, he can swings, he can york, he can bounce, any pitches in the world. That's the difference.
 
BD-fan said:
I second this.
Dear Moderators/Administrators,
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION] [MENTION=139847]Ankit007[/MENTION] [MENTION=117]Shayan[/MENTION] [MENTION=139288]Abdul[/MENTION] [MENTION=132270]SL_Fan[/MENTION] @Everyone_else
Please, I plea, why let hatred breed? This is the one of the main reasons the negativity has gone up exponentially recently.

Could you please close this thread. It has served it purpose. 12 page is enough. Both sides have made their argument clear. On top of it posted childish posts that you have to edit/delete etc.

There are threads for Mustafiz and threads for Amir. Please let the members use those thread to glorify their beloved players.

-An older Member of Pakpassion.
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This is a blockbuster thread, 12 pages, 60 more posts needed to 1000 and you want it closed?
 
Bangladesh_Fan said:
This is a blockbuster thread, 12 pages, 60 more posts needed to 1000 and you want it closed?
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This.

What's the fun if there's no comparison in a forum. After years of posting and defending in Sachin vs Lara/Ponting/Sangakarra threads, we would like to take a much deserved rest. Let Pak and BD fans battle it out for a change:asif
 
Indian_Supporter said:
Why you want this thread to be closed? This comparison is probably the most fair compared to all the ridiculous comparisons we had before. Also no one is spreading hatred here. But in a forum there will be difference of opinion ofcourse. Both Amir and Fizz are contempory great bowlers. Absolutely top class bowlers with similar skills. And its only fair if we have a thread to compare their performances. If we threads like Kohli vs Root vs Smith etc. why we cant have this??

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This comparison will soon turn into umar akmal vs kohli comparison :uakmal only thing to be seen is that who will be akmal and who will be kohli :yk
 
Indian_Supporter said:
Why you want this thread to be closed? This comparison is probably the most fair compared to all the ridiculous comparisons we had before. Also no one is spreading hatred here. But in a forum there will be difference of opinion ofcourse. Both Amir and Fizz are contempory great bowlers. Absolutely top class bowlers with similar skills. And its only fair if we have a thread to compare their performances. If we threads like Kohli vs Root vs Smith etc. why we cant have this??

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both are top class bowlers but not similar.

Amir is mostly dependant on swing and pace , mustafiz has other weapons.
 
Indian_Supporter said:
Why you want this thread to be closed? This comparison is probably the most fair compared to all the ridiculous comparisons we had before. Also no one is spreading hatred here. But in a forum there will be difference of opinion ofcourse. Both Amir and Fizz are contempory great bowlers. Absolutely top class bowlers with similar skills. And its only fair if we have a thread to compare their performances. If we threads like Kohli vs Root vs Smith etc. why we cant have this??

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You were going right but totally lost it .

Both have comparable or similar skills? What ? I've seen it all now. :usman
 
carrom_ball said:
This comparison will soon turn into umar akmal vs kohli comparison :uakmal only thing to be seen is that who will be akmal and who will be kohli :yk
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Dont think so. Amir is pure quality and its a no brainer. I mean that spell of his against India in Asia cup is something any fast bowler can deam off. Fizz proved he is no one season wonder either.

Dont think either of them degrading to the level of U.Akmal. :facepalm:


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Indian_Supporter said:
Dont think so. Amir is pure quality and its a no brainer. I mean that spell of his against India in Asia cup is something any fast bowler can deam off. Fizz proved he is no one season wonder either.

Dont think either of them degrading to the level of U.Akmal. :facepalm:


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I will stop watching cricket if it happens :))
 
BD-fan said:
No disrespect to you, thread starter. I don't see any end to this discussion.

So after 12 page of discussion what is the conclusion you got?
++
This is what I got: (some if not majority)
Bangla fans are delusional. Fizz is a Mendis 2.0; a wrist spinner at best. (These type of comments breeds hatred.)
++
On the other hand, some are in total denial that there can be someone comparable to Amir in this subcontinent who doesn't wear a Pakistani jersey.
++
Instead of Fiz you should have opened it with Bumrah. he is equally talented and extremely difficult to play. All the unwarranted criticism just for being a Bangladeshi fan, I wouldn't have to see then.
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Well you obviously get bit of a bias considering it a Pak forum. But atleast here you would get as much neutral views as possible. There was a thread in Bangla forum about who is better spinner between Ashwin and Shakib. Shakib won the poll by 100% :)) Now that is called bias. Indian forum is pretty much same as well.

As far as Bumrah is concerned you cant have that comparison (well atleast if yoh ain't trolling). No one in his sane mind would compare Bumrah with Amir/Musta who is clearly class below both. Let us produce another great bowler like Atul Sharma and then I would open a comparison thread for sure :misbah

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Rehman clueless yet again when his team needed him the most. If you guys haven't noticed, mustafiz have only got a bunch of wickets in slow, bowler friendly tracks where even the likes of kumar and grant elliott looked unplayable. He is of course good the first time he faces a batsman, like with india. But his novelty factor is coming off and its starting to show already. He looked like another IPL trundler today. He will end up being similar to ajantha mendis, but will still play international cricket because lack of talent in bd. I think Taskin will be a better bowler than rehman by miles. Heck even that other bd pacer at least has good, consistent pace.
 
Messiah said:
Rehman clueless yet again when his team needed him the most. If you guys haven't noticed, mustafiz have only got a bunch of wickets in slow, bowler friendly tracks where even the likes of kumar and grant elliott looked unplayable. He is of course good the first time he faces a batsman, like with india. But his novelty factor is coming off and its starting to show already. He looked like another IPL trundler today. He will end up being similar to ajantha mendis, but will still play international cricket because lack of talent in bd. I think Taskin will be a better bowler than rehman by miles. Heck even that other bd pacer at least has good, consistent pace.
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That's harsh, he has done well in international so far. The test for him is when Bangladesh plays outside of Asia.
 
Fizz had a bad game. Looked like he wanted to get Smithy out the same way he did in the WC and bowled too full. I'd still rate Amir over Fizz anyday but TBF, every bowler has a bad game once in a while
 
Mustafizur is a good bowler, but don't hype him to the moon. He has barely achieved anything yet and performances in leagues should be taken with a bucket of salt. Alot of cheap wickets available for any good bowler to plunder.
 
Both are my favourite bowlers I can't pick one both are talented and young but I think amir can be better in tests but we are yet to see him in tests in Odis I think both are equal and in t20s mustafiz is better.
But I feel amir is more skillful cause he can bowl 6 different types o deliveries in an over an inswing outswing cutter yorker bouncer and straighter one but mustafiz mostly rely on his cutters and Yorkers only if he can swing the ball then he will be force in reckoning.
But now in tests
Amir= mustafiz
Odis
Both are equal
T20s
Mustafiz better
 
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