Is Pakistan establishment fit to talk with Government of India?

[JaDed]

I think it’s time there is a discourse on Pakistani Establishment , it’s bigger than the current Chief and the people of Pakistan.

Historical Events:

- Been in power for majority of the timeline of Pakistan , either directly or indirectly
- Made sure hardly any leader ever completed their term thanks to the ISI
-Got the country broken into two eventhough majority Bangladeshis loved West Pakistanis
- Consistently allowed droning of their people in name of Osama who was found close to HQ.
- Jailed the most famous leader of current Pakistan and killed the other most famous one in 70s.
- After all that , still Pakistan has gone to most number of times to IMF at least in South Asia.

Yet why do posters think that these Establishment would be able to have a civil talk with GOI?

 

[Devadwal]

They are Using kashmir Card to gain the sympathy from Pakistan people's .

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think it’s time there is a discourse on Pakistani Establishment , it’s bigger than the current COAS and the people of Pakistan.

Historical Events:

- Been in power for majority of the timeline of Pakistan , either directly or indirectly
- Made sure hardly any leader ever completed their term thanks to the ISI
-Got the country broken into two eventhough majority Bangladeshis loved West Pakistanis
- Consistently allowed droning of their people in name of Osama who was found close to Army HQ.
- Jailed the most famous leader of current Pakistan and killed the other most famous one in 70s.
- After all that , still Pakistan has gone to most number of times to IMF at least in South Asia.

Yet why do posters think that these Establishment would be able to have a civil talk with GOI?

You don't understand the psyche of Pakistanis. We will fight with our brothers for a section of land but give that land up for free to a traveller.

India has had multiple opportunities to bring Kashmir dispute to a close but hides behind this mantra of can't trust Pak army to hide their aggression because the status quo of this illegal occupation is in your favour.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's also important to note the difference between domestic and international affairs.

India has helped hide fugitives and dissidents from China and Bangladesh who forment trouble in these countries. It occupied sections of Pakistan and has border dispute with all neighbours and disputes with all regional countries.

There is enormous distrust of India across the region. It is of no business of India how many times Pakistan goes to IMF. It must deal with the Kashmir issue regardless. It is like me stealing my neighbours car and refusing to return it because he owes the milkman money.

 

[JaDed]

I wont

You don't understand the psyche of Pakistanis. We will fight with our brothers for a section of land but give that land up for free to a traveller.

India has had multiple opportunities to bring Kashmir dispute to a close but hides behind this mantra of can't trust Pak army to hide their aggression because the status quo of this illegal occupation is in your favour.

That would make sense had Pakistanis not thrown the Afghans out recently unless they are your brothers too, maybe Pakistani Army thinks of Indians as their brothers for section of a land.
Now the whole thing makes sense, every neighbour of Pakistan is their brother which is the reason they keep fighting for land.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I wont

That would make sense had Pakistanis not thrown the Afghans out recently unless they are your brothers too, maybe Pakistani Army thinks of Indians as their brothers for section of a land.
Now the whole thing makes sense, every neighbour of Pakistan is their brother which is the reason they keep fighting for land.

It is a metaphor brother, we are nice people. This is just a saying but you missed the point. Our domestic infighting doesn't reflect our international negotiations. For Kashmir our stance is hold the referendum. If we lose we lose, it is just land, but give the people their human rights and dignity.

Pak has pursued the Kashmir issue through diplomatic channels in search for a resolution that stops all of this killing and insanity that takes place as a result of Indian belligerence.

India is the one breaching multiple international treaties and your reason is because Pak army hung Bhutto you have every right to do it?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

You don't understand the psyche of Pakistanis. We will fight with our brothers for a section of land but give that land up for free to a traveller.

India has had multiple opportunities to bring Kashmir dispute to a close but hides behind this mantra of can't trust Pak army to hide their aggression because the status quo of this illegal occupation is in your favour.

Because Pakistani generals and ISI brigade have consistently shown that they wont stop with Kashmir.
Pakistan keeps butting itself in other internal matters of India time and time again. If Pakistan stuck to only Kashmir, maybe MMS and Musharaff's proposals could have brought lasting peace 2 decades ago.
Pannun is a regular guest at your local media, Dawood Ibrahim owns half of Karachi. Zakir Naik is given super VVIP welcome.
Sorry, trust will be lacking when you are willing to align with any trouble for India in such a blatant open way.

It's also important to note the difference between domestic and international affairs.

India has helped hide fugitives and dissidents from China and Bangladesh who forment trouble in these countries. It occupied sections of Pakistan and has border dispute with all neighbours and disputes with all regional countries.

There is enormous distrust of India across the region. It is of no business of India how many times Pakistan goes to IMF. It must deal with the Kashmir issue regardless. It is like me stealing my neighbours car and refusing to return it because he owes the milkman money.

Ahhh thanks for pointing that out. Dalai Lama's asylum has cost us a lot with China, and Hasina is a recent case.
NOW...... can you tell me any high profile figitive from Pakistan hiding in India?

Pakistan has back tracked and often tried to backstab India with regards to agreements, be it Siachen 1984 or Kargil in 99.
Why should India keep giving Pakistan multiple chances?

As for the disturst in the region, China has been trying to woo the neighbors. Maldives and Sri Lanka went on break from India are easily coming back to the fold. Nepal was even tougher case with its Civil war sponsored by China, but its more or less stable with India. Pakistan has basically yielded its sovereign rights to China and has become its vassal state.
The irony, instead of being friendly with polytheists, Pakistan is serving the Atheist masters.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think it’s time there is a discourse on Pakistani Establishment , it’s bigger than the current COAS and the people of Pakistan.

Historical Events:

- Been in power for majority of the timeline of Pakistan , either directly or indirectly
- Made sure hardly any leader ever completed their term thanks to the ISI
-Got the country broken into two eventhough majority Bangladeshis loved West Pakistanis
- Consistently allowed droning of their people in name of Osama who was found close to Army HQ.
- Jailed the most famous leader of current Pakistan and killed the other most famous one in 70s.
- After all that , still Pakistan has gone to most number of times to IMF at least in South Asia.

Yet why do posters think that these Establishment would be able to have a civil talk with GOI?

Impossible to have civil talks with government of India if India does not desire them. GOI is implacably opposed to peace with Pakistan regardless of who is in power, unless that govt is basically signing over the nation's assets to India.

I say this even though I agree that Pakistan establishment is incompetent, but as they say, you cannot clap with one hand.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Because Pakistani generals and ISI brigade have consistently shown that they wont stop with Kashmir.
Pakistan keeps butting itself in other internal matters of India time and time again. If Pakistan stuck to only Kashmir, maybe MMS and Musharaff's proposals could have brought lasting peace 2 decades ago.
Pannun is a regular guest at your local media, Dawood Ibrahim owns half of Karachi. Zakir Naik is given super VVIP welcome.
Sorry, trust will be lacking when you are willing to align with any trouble for India in such a blatant open way.

Ahhh thanks for pointing that out. Dalai Lama's asylum has cost us a lot with China, and Hasina is a recent case.
NOW...... can you tell me any high profile figitive from Pakistan hiding in India?

Pakistan has back tracked and often tried to backstab India with regards to agreements, be it Siachen 1984 or Kargil in 99.
Why should India keep giving Pakistan multiple chances?

As for the disturst in the region, China has been trying to woo the neighbors. Maldives and Sri Lanka went on break from India are easily coming back to the fold. Nepal was even tougher case with its Civil war sponsored by China, but its more or less stable with India. Pakistan has basically yielded its sovereign rights to China and has become its vassal state.
The irony, instead of being friendly with polytheists, Pakistan is serving the Atheist masters.

There is lots of heresay and weird tangents in your post. I'm not sure how the conversation flows from Zakir Naik to atheists and sovereignty. It seems Indians try anything to produce smoke and mirrors to deflect from the core issue.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

There is lots of heresay and weird tangents in your post. I'm not sure how the conversation flows from Zakir Naik to atheists and sovereignty. It seems Indians try anything to produce smoke and mirrors to deflect from the core issue.

My account is restricted I am not sure which post of mine goes through and which gets edited. I tried to respond comprehensively.
You can point out to the heresay parts I will attempt my best to answer.

 

[JaDed]

Impossible to have civil talks with government of India if India does not desire them. GOI is implacably opposed to peace with Pakistan regardless of who is in power, unless that govt is basically signing over the nation's assets to India.

I say this even though I agree that Pakistan establishment is incompetent, but as they say, you cannot clap with one hand.

Sure same Establishment that kills the PM, jails another will have civil talks, that’s like asking Israel to have peace talk with Palestenians.

 

[sweep_shot]

There is lots of heresay and weird tangents in your post. I'm not sure how the conversation flows from Zakir Naik to atheists and sovereignty. It seems Indians try anything to produce smoke and mirrors to deflect from the core issue.

Most Indian posters are like this here. They go from A to Z to M to A. All over the place.

They don't seem capable of sticking to one topic.

 

[Devadwal]

Isn't he saying the actual truth?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919803688677474395

 

[sweep_shot]

Real question is --> Is Indian government fit to talk with all the regional countries? They seem to have issues with almost every single country.

Subcontinent can experience pure peace if India become weaker/balkanized.

 

[JaDed]

Real question is --> Is Indian government fit to talk with all the regional countries? They seem to have issues with almost every single country.

Subcontinent can experience pure peace if India become weaker/balkanized.

lol , Only Balkanised country citizens talk like that.

Aka East Pakistan, try again now.

 

[JaDed]

I hope in future all PTI PPP or whoever it is when Pakistani Establishment jails or kills them, their supporters be like they should sit down with the Establishment and have a peace talk.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Real question is --> Is Indian government fit to talk with all the regional countries? They seem to have issues with almost every single country.

Subcontinent can experience pure peace if India become weaker/balkanized.

Balkanised is a wrong term. Kindomised would be more accurate, as that was the state of the original subcontinent, there was no India or Hindustan before the advent of Islamic conquest. This idea of Hindustan was only created by the RSS after they tried to model the Khilafa system which the Islamic world operated at the time as a general ruling over different lands.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Balkanised is a wrong term. Kindomised would be more accurate, as that was the state of the original subcontinent, there was no India or Hindustan before the advent of Islamic conquest. This idea of Hindustan was only created by the RSS after they tried to model the Khilafa system which the Islamic world operated at the time as a general ruling over different lands.

Ever heard of Mauryan empire brother

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ever heard of Mauryan empire brother

Yes. It was founded by a leader called Maurya and he defeated other Hindu Kings I presume to further his kindom. That was the point of these wars for territory during early periods of the region, individual battles for more land. I don't think the aim was to establish Hindu religion as that was already established.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Yes. It was founded by a leader called Maurya and he defeated other Hindu Kings I presume to further his kindom. That was the point of these wars for territory during early periods of the region, individual battles for more land. I don't think the aim was to establish Hindu religion as that was already established.

Point is that we have had periods of consolidated large empires like Mauryan, Mughal, Maratha and of smaller princely states. I mean this is 2000-3000 years history we are talking about here.