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Is pakistan the worst country when it comes to producing wicket keeping batters?

mominsaigol

mominsaigol

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I'm dead serious here. Nearly 50+ years of having the privilege of playing one of the oldest games in sports history and not a single quality keeper batsmen has ever been produced by this country. Every other country even minnows has produced a keeper who surpasses any keeper bat that Pakistan has ever produced

Australia: Gilchrist
England: Butler
South Africa: Quinton De Kock
India: Dhoni
New Zealand: Brendon Mcullum
Sri Lanka: Kumar Sangakkara
Bangladesh: Mushfiqar Rahim
Afghanistan: Rahmanullah Gurbaz
Zimbabwe: Brendon Taylor
West Indies: Shai Hope

This isnt even counting multiple other keeper bats such as Pant, Liton Das, devon Conway, Clyde Walcott and many other keeping greats.

Pakistan on the other hand has produced

Wasim Bari (Good keeper, horrible batter)
Moin Khan
Rashid Latif
Kamran Akmal
Sarfaraz Ahmed (Respect him but he isnt better then any of the keeper batters I've mentioned)
Rizwan

Only Hanif Mohammad is an exception, we have to go back to the 50's to find a name.
 
mominsaigol said:
I'm dead serious here. Nearly 50+ years of having the privilege of playing one of the oldest games in sports history and not a single quality keeper batsmen has ever been produced by this country. Every other country even minnows has produced a keeper who surpasses any keeper bat that Pakistan has ever produced

Australia : Gilchrist
England: Butler
South Africa: Quinton De Kock
India: Dhoni
New Zealand: Brendon Mcullum
Sri Lanka: Kumar Sangakkara
Bangladesh : Mushfiqar Rahim
Afghanistan : Rahmanullah Gurbaz
Zimbabwe : Brendon Taylor
West Indies: Shai Hope

This isnt even counting multiple other keeper bats such as Pant, Liton Das, devon Conway, Clyde Walcott and many other keeping greats.

Pakistan on the other hand has produced

Wasim Bari( Good keeper, horrible batter)
Moin Khan
Rashid Latif
Kamran Akmal
Sarfaraz Ahmed (Respect him but he isnt better then any of the keeper batters I've mentioned)
Rizwan

Only Hanif Mohammad is an exception, we have to go back to the 50's to find a name.
Click to expand...
Don't forget Azam Khan
 
Want to shed some light here for those who claim rizwan is pak's best keeper bat ever.

It shows how barren the barrel is. Since even he isn't anywhere close to any of the other keepers I mentioned >>>.

Every Country has atleast 2 to 3 other keeper batters > him.
 
You had Zoni who could have been a decent test match batter long term. But that guy had the weirdest ever issue. I still can’t believe how it all went downhill for him and for mostly non cricketing reason. That 2007-10 was truly an extremely extremely weird phase in Pakistan cricket and I wonder how Pakistani fans of that era dealt with it. No wonder majority of them really just left.
 
AZulfi said:
Rizwan is a decent wicket-keeper batsman averaging 40 plus with the bat in all three formats. A match winner in ODIs and T20Is
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Not even in bootlicking distance of any of the people I mentioned.

All the guys I've mentioned have notable achievements in icc events, higher century count tally, higher run tallies and overall better performances.

Avg isn't the only metric. By this logic rizwan is > gilly however gilly played in a much harder era.
 
mominsaigol said:
Not even in bootlicking distance of any of the people I mentioned.

All the guys I've mentioned have notable achievements in icc events, higher century count tally, higher run tallies and overall better performances.

Avg isn't the only metric. By this logic rizwan is > gilly however gilly played in a much harder era.
Click to expand...
Do not agree. Cricket is a team sport. Batting has always been Pakistan's Achilles heel principally relying on 1 or 2 individuals in every era. Batting often lets Pak down esp. in pressure situations. Gilly and Dhoni (certainly not saying Rizwan is better than them) had the added advantage of being part of much better batting line-ups overall, hence less pressure on them..
 
I think keeper-batters from pre-1990 eras should be omitted. Those times were different.

During those days, teams only wanted good keepings from keepers. Batting was a bonus.
 
The issue is simple - Kamran Akmal.

Let me explain, until Gilchrist, a keeper wasn't expected to be an exceptional batsman but he changed everything. This is why every keeper you mentioned on your list is from after the 2000's. Prior to this, pakistan also had exceptional keepers who couldnt bat well, like the rest of the world.

However as they all went through a transformation and the likes of sangakarra, dhoni etc emerged, pakistan had Kami. Who duped them into thinking that he was the incredible game changing batsman that keepers now had to be.

Except his keeping was so atrocious that he was dropping simple chances every game. The irony is that his batting, apart from the odd fluke innings, was equally bad. For someone to play HUNDREDS of international games unchanged and yet average in the 20s is unheard of. If you add in his terrible attitude, awful fitness, incidents with his brother like the faking injury and the dubious Sydney test shenanigans it starts to become even wilder.

But despite all of this, he held the country at ransom running a campaign around how there are not alternatives. Despite the mismanagement, we saw that even in limited chances, players like Zulqarnain showed glimpses and then sarfaraz who was said to be awful showed what he is capable of and Rizwan has raised the bar even further.

I guarantee if sarfaraz and Rizwan were dropped after 5-10 matches and not selected again, people would make out they were awful keepers/ batsmen and no where near international standard. This is what kept happening during Kami's reign.

He has does more damage to pakistan cricket than any other cricketer.
 
AZulfi said:
Do not agree. Cricket is a team sport. Batting has always been Pakistan's Achilles heel principally relying on 1 or 2 individuals in every era. Batting often lets Pak down esp. in pressure situations. Gilly and Dhoni (certainly not saying Rizwan is better than them) had the added advantage of being part of much better batting line-ups overall, hence less pressure on them..
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You realise afg batting is not > Pakistan? Gurbaz is carrying the entire side. And he's 100% ahead of rizzu in odi's.

Khair I'm not interested in turning this into a rizwan thread. It's about wicket keepers as a whole and Pakistan has produced the most rubbish ones.
 
Forum363 said:
The issue is simple - Kamran Akmal.

Let me explain, until Gilchrist, a keeper wasn't expected to be an exceptional batsman but he changed everything. This is why every keeper you mentioned on your list is from after the 2000's. Prior to this, pakistan also had exceptional keepers who couldnt bat well, like the rest of the world.

However as they all went through a transformation and the likes of sangakarra, dhoni etc emerged, pakistan had Kami. Who duped them into thinking that he was the incredible game changing batsman that keepers now had to be.

Except his keeping was so atrocious that he was dropping simple chances every game. The irony is that his batting, apart from the odd fluke innings, was equally bad. For someone to play HUNDREDS of international games unchanged and yet average in the 20s is unheard of. If you add in his terrible attitude, awful fitness, incidents with his brother like the faking injury and the dubious Sydney test shenanigans it starts to become even wilder.

But despite all of this, he held the country at ransom running a campaign around how there are not alternatives. Despite the mismanagement, we saw that even in limited chances, players like Zulqarnain showed glimpses and then sarfaraz who was said to be awful showed what he is capable of and Rizwan has raised the bar even further.

I guarantee if sarfaraz and Rizwan were dropped after 5-10 matches and not selected again, people would make out they were awful keepers/ batsmen and no where near international standard. This is what kept happening during Kami's reign.

He has does more damage to pakistan cricket than any other cricketer.
Click to expand...
Very interesting and respectable take. This is POTW material right here.

I throughly enjoyed reading this and I agree, Gilly × Samga and many other keeper bats transformed post 2000's while pakistan persisted with rubbish and never bothered giving anyone else more then 5 to 6 games.

Tbf they did this in sarfi's and rizzu's era as well. No other keeper is tried for these 2.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Rizwan is one of the match all format keepers in the world today. He averages more than Head in tests away from home. He is better than Dhoni. @Mamoon
Click to expand...
How is Rizwan better than Dhoni? Dhoni is arguably the greatest finisher in one days…also, stop following Cricinfo and actually watch the game, it’s not always about stats. Head is miles better than Rizwan like it’s not even a comparison.

We just watched the Pak V South Africa series and Rizwan done very well but look at Klassen, he was miles better. Rizwan is a good wicket keeper batsman and a good captain but he has certain limitations, I would say he is a bit better than Mushfiqur Rahim in the list above, that’s about it.
 
Moin Khan and Rashid were respectable keeper bats for the eras they played in.

Sarfraz was also ok and Rizwan is a very good keeper bat too.

But yes I do agree we are behind other countries overall.
 
mominsaigol said:
Very interesting and respectable take. This is POTW material right here.

I throughly enjoyed reading this and I agree, Gilly × Samga and many other keeper bats transformed post 2000's while pakistan persisted with rubbish and never bothered giving anyone else more then 5 to 6 games.

Tbf they did this in sarfi's and rizzu's era as well. No other keeper is tried for these 2.
Click to expand...
Sarfaraz hit a purple patch during the UAE tests and won Pakistan the champions trophy including a hammering of India as captain. That naturally gave him a long leash.

Rizwan at one time was the best keeper in the world as noted by many pundits. And his batting, though slow and controversial has been relatively consistent.

The replacement potentials are there and will jump in soon as Rizwan has another 2 years max before his form/ fitness/ team performance dips and he’s replaced.
 
when looking at Pakistan relevant to other nations, some of whom their best WK are also amongs their ATG batsmen, Pakistan seems weak, but overall they haven't been too horrific. The 2000s were just horrible
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hafizexpress said:
when looking at Pakistan relevant to other nations, some of whom their best WK are also amongs their ATG batsmen, Pakistan seems weak, but overall they haven't been too horrific. The 2000s were just horrible
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I said that Pakistan has produced some of the best WK batters. RIzwan is on top for me, then comes Moin, Rashid Kmran Akmal etc in the line.

We always have a good `crop of keepers so saying Pakistan is the worst is not true....
 
Dhoni is overrated test bat. I ll pick sarfraz over him in rank turners.
 
If we compare keepers, Pakistan has been blessed with many greats.

Wasim Bari?? He is not talked about that much but he should have been mentioned more. Moin was pretty good. Kamran was a good batters then he was a keeper.
 
BouncerGuy said:
If we compare keepers, Pakistan has been blessed with many greats.

Wasim Bari?? He is not talked about that much but he should have been mentioned more. Moin was pretty good. Kamran was a good batters then he was a keeper.
Click to expand...
Keeping wise aka keeping ability then yes pakistan is up their. Infact bari is one of the best keepers in terms of gloverwork.

But batting wise all the people I've mentioned above + Others who are not mentioned like Pant etc are >>>>> Every Keeper Bat Pakistan has ever produced.

seriously its shocking because even Zimbabwe has produced the likes of Brendon Taylor.

infact i don't think I've ever seen a single keeper bat worse then Azam Khan. I challenge anyone to name a single keeper Batsmen worse then Azam.

Equally rubbish with the bat + ball. Shows how poor the quality of PSL and CPL is considering even Shaheen Shah afridi is a no 3 in psl.
 
Let's not indulge in riz vs sarfaraz debate... it will derail the whole thing.​
 
rp is a hack nothing more,he is now being found out
mominsaigol said:
Keeping wise aka keeping ability then yes pakistan is up their. Infact bari is one of the best keepers in terms of gloverwork.

But batting wise all the people I've mentioned above + Others who are not mentioned like Pant etc are >>>>> Every Keeper Bat Pakistan has ever produced.

seriously its shocking because even Zimbabwe has produced the likes of Brendon Taylor.

infact i don't think I've ever seen a single keeper bat worse then Azam Khan. I challenge anyone to name a single keeper Batsmen worse then Azam.

Equally rubbish with the bat + ball. Shows how poor the quality of PSL and CPL is considering even Shaheen Shah afridi is a no 3 in psl.
Click to expand...
 
I just want a gilly or qdk type keeper for pakistan now. So that no more keepers and fans can hude behind keeping clause to support rubbish players.
 
There is no doubt that Pakistan has produced some worst keepers that have player the world cup as well like Azam Khan but Pakistan has also produced some great keepers as well..
 
Interesting thread, in pursuit of trying to prove the OP wrong, i thoughts lets look at the MoM/Player of the match awards for the list of players mentioned above. Surely Rizwan having the 8th highest MoM awards in T20Is ever would prove he's a match winner worthy of being mentioned in the above list. But recency bias might have got the better of me and i think the OP might be on to something...

Player of the Match awards across Test, ODI, and T20I formats:

  • Adam Gilchrist (Australia):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 33
    • T20Is: 20
    • Total: 55
  • Jos Buttler (England):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 16
    • T20Is: 22
    • Total: 38
  • Quinton de Kock (South Africa):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 28
    • T20Is: 19
    • Total: 49
  • MS Dhoni (India):
    • Tests: 6
    • ODIs: 69
    • T20Is: 16
    • Total: 91
  • Brendon McCullum (New Zealand):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 27
    • T20Is: 24
    • Total: 54
  • Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka):
    • Tests: 11
    • ODIs: 25
    • T20Is: 14
    • Total: 50
  • Mushfiqur Rahim (Bangladesh):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 17
    • T20Is: 9
    • Total: 29
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz (Afghanistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 3
    • Total: 3
  • Brendon Taylor (Zimbabwe):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 11
    • T20Is: 4
    • Total: 15
  • Shai Hope (West Indies):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 36
    • T20Is: 6
    • Total: 45
  • Muhammad Rizwan (Pakistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 12
    • Total: 12
But does Rizwan really not belong? My personal opinion is that Rizwan can very easily make it in to this Pakistan team as a batter alone. So surely there has to be data that backs up his productivity as a batter when compared to the above mentioned list. So i dug deeper, and did some additional analysis that could add insight to this conversation:

Below is the above listed players with their total innings, 100s, 50s, and number of innings per 50+ score. I've added a few additional names to the list of my own accord just to see where these WK/batters fit.

Name, total innings, centuries, fifties, and the number of innings per fifty-plus score (including centuries):

  • Adam Gilchrist:
    • Innings: 375
    • Centuries: 21
    • Fifties: 64
    • Innings/50+: 5.86
  • Jos Buttler:
    • Innings: 286
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 55
    • Innings/50+: 4.91
  • Quinton de Kock:
    • Innings: 311
    • Centuries: 24
    • Fifties: 77
    • Innings/50+: 3.82
  • MS Dhoni:
    • Innings: 430
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 108
    • Innings/50+: 3.56
  • Brendon McCullum:
    • Innings: 438
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 71
    • Innings/50+: 5.81
  • Kumar Sangakkara:
    • Innings: 594
    • Centuries: 63
    • Fifties: 153
    • Innings/50+: 3.49
  • Mushfiqur Rahim:
    • Innings: 384
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 51
    • Innings/50+: 6.98
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz:
    • Innings: 97
    • Centuries: 2
    • Fifties: 11
    • Innings/50+: 7.54
  • Brendon Taylor:
    • Innings: 319
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 44
    • Innings/50+: 6.61
  • Shai Hope:
    • Innings: 232
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 48
    • Innings/50+: 4.42
  • Muhammad Rizwan:
    • Innings: 254
    • Centuries: 7
    • Fifties: 53
    • Innings/50+: 4.26
  • Kamran Akmal:
    • Innings: 217
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 18
    • Innings/50+: 11.47
  • Sarfaraz Ahmed:
    • Innings: 196
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 21
    • Innings/9.33
  • Andy Flower:
    • Innings: 282
    • Centuries: 12
    • Fifties: 63
    • Innings/50+: 4.18
Was surprised to find Rizwan's innings per 50+ is actually greater than Gilly, Butler, McCullam Hope and just below Andy Flower who should be ahead of Brendon in this list. So as ungainly as his batting might seem, he is mighty effective.
 
Let's cut the long story short. List the keepers who you think rizwan or any other keeper from pak is superior to the list I've presented? Just name those guys and we'll take it from their
Mute Witness said:
Interesting thread, in pursuit of trying to prove the OP wrong, i thoughts lets look at the MoM/Player of the match awards for the list of players mentioned above. Surely Rizwan having the 8th highest MoM awards in T20Is ever would prove he's a match winner worthy of being mentioned in the above list. But recency bias might have got the better of me and i think the OP might be on to something...

Player of the Match awards across Test, ODI, and T20I formats:

  • Adam Gilchrist (Australia):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 33
    • T20Is: 20
    • Total: 55
  • Jos Buttler (England):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 16
    • T20Is: 22
    • Total: 38
  • Quinton de Kock (South Africa):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 28
    • T20Is: 19
    • Total: 49
  • MS Dhoni (India):
    • Tests: 6
    • ODIs: 69
    • T20Is: 16
    • Total: 91
  • Brendon McCullum (New Zealand):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 27
    • T20Is: 24
    • Total: 54
  • Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka):
    • Tests: 11
    • ODIs: 25
    • T20Is: 14
    • Total: 50
  • Mushfiqur Rahim (Bangladesh):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 17
    • T20Is: 9
    • Total: 29
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz (Afghanistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 3
    • Total: 3
  • Brendon Taylor (Zimbabwe):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 11
    • T20Is: 4
    • Total: 15
  • Shai Hope (West Indies):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 36
    • T20Is: 6
    • Total: 45
  • Muhammad Rizwan (Pakistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 12
    • Total: 12
But does Rizwan really not belong? My personal opinion is that Rizwan can very easily make it in to this Pakistan team as a batter alone. So surely there has to be data that backs up his productivity as a batter when compared to the above mentioned list. So i dug deeper, and did some additional analysis that could add insight to this conversation:

Below is the above listed players with their total innings, 100s, 50s, and number of innings per 50+ score. I've added a few additional names to the list of my own accord just to see where these WK/batters fit.

Name, total innings, centuries, fifties, and the number of innings per fifty-plus score (including centuries):

  • Adam Gilchrist:
    • Innings: 375
    • Centuries: 21
    • Fifties: 64
    • Innings/50+: 5.86
  • Jos Buttler:
    • Innings: 286
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 55
    • Innings/50+: 4.91
  • Quinton de Kock:
    • Innings: 311
    • Centuries: 24
    • Fifties: 77
    • Innings/50+: 3.82
  • MS Dhoni:
    • Innings: 430
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 108
    • Innings/50+: 3.56
  • Brendon McCullum:
    • Innings: 438
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 71
    • Innings/50+: 5.81
  • Kumar Sangakkara:
    • Innings: 594
    • Centuries: 63
    • Fifties: 153
    • Innings/50+: 3.49
  • Mushfiqur Rahim:
    • Innings: 384
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 51
    • Innings/50+: 6.98
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz:
    • Innings: 97
    • Centuries: 2
    • Fifties: 11
    • Innings/50+: 7.54
  • Brendon Taylor:
    • Innings: 319
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 44
    • Innings/50+: 6.61
  • Shai Hope:
    • Innings: 232
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 48
    • Innings/50+: 4.42
  • Muhammad Rizwan:
    • Innings: 254
    • Centuries: 7
    • Fifties: 53
    • Innings/50+: 4.26
  • Kamran Akmal:
    • Innings: 217
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 18
    • Innings/50+: 11.47
  • Sarfaraz Ahmed:
    • Innings: 196
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 21
    • Innings/9.33
  • Andy Flower:
    • Innings: 282
    • Centuries: 12
    • Fifties: 63
    • Innings/50+: 4.18
Was surprised to find Rizwan's innings per 50+ is actually greater than Gilly, Butler, McCullam Hope and just below Andy Flower who should be ahead of Brendon in this list. So as ungainly as his batting might seem, he is mighty effective.
Click to expand...
 
@Nikhil_cric @Hitman @Rajdeep

To all my Indian brother, If you ever feel down in life and believe the quality of your cricketers need improvement believe and remember that

Azam Khan played for pakistan in a world cup.

It'll lighten your mood and you will realise the cupboard is full and not dry.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Thread is not about rizwan so better not to make it one
Click to expand...
I want the destruction of every keeper except sarfi now. But tbh sarfi batting wise doesn't compare to any of the names I've mentioned either.

All those people making fun of Carey and Inglis and wade yet these 3 are still >>>> Any pakistani keeper ever produced.
 
Pakistan has never had a complete wicket keeper batsmen in the modern era

Rizwan - good keeper - poor batsmen
Sarfaraz - average keeper - average batsmen
Kamran - poor keeper - average batsmen
 
Mute Witness said:
Interesting thread, in pursuit of trying to prove the OP wrong, i thoughts lets look at the MoM/Player of the match awards for the list of players mentioned above. Surely Rizwan having the 8th highest MoM awards in T20Is ever would prove he's a match winner worthy of being mentioned in the above list. But recency bias might have got the better of me and i think the OP might be on to something...

Player of the Match awards across Test, ODI, and T20I formats:

  • Adam Gilchrist (Australia):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 33
    • T20Is: 20
    • Total: 55
  • Jos Buttler (England):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 16
    • T20Is: 22
    • Total: 38
  • Quinton de Kock (South Africa):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 28
    • T20Is: 19
    • Total: 49
  • MS Dhoni (India):
    • Tests: 6
    • ODIs: 69
    • T20Is: 16
    • Total: 91
  • Brendon McCullum (New Zealand):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 27
    • T20Is: 24
    • Total: 54
  • Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka):
    • Tests: 11
    • ODIs: 25
    • T20Is: 14
    • Total: 50
  • Mushfiqur Rahim (Bangladesh):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 17
    • T20Is: 9
    • Total: 29
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz (Afghanistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 3
    • Total: 3
  • Brendon Taylor (Zimbabwe):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 11
    • T20Is: 4
    • Total: 15
  • Shai Hope (West Indies):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 36
    • T20Is: 6
    • Total: 45
  • Muhammad Rizwan (Pakistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 12
    • Total: 12
But does Rizwan really not belong? My personal opinion is that Rizwan can very easily make it in to this Pakistan team as a batter alone. So surely there has to be data that backs up his productivity as a batter when compared to the above mentioned list. So i dug deeper, and did some additional analysis that could add insight to this conversation:

Below is the above listed players with their total innings, 100s, 50s, and number of innings per 50+ score. I've added a few additional names to the list of my own accord just to see where these WK/batters fit.

Name, total innings, centuries, fifties, and the number of innings per fifty-plus score (including centuries):

  • Adam Gilchrist:
    • Innings: 375
    • Centuries: 21
    • Fifties: 64
    • Innings/50+: 5.86
  • Jos Buttler:
    • Innings: 286
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 55
    • Innings/50+: 4.91
  • Quinton de Kock:
    • Innings: 311
    • Centuries: 24
    • Fifties: 77
    • Innings/50+: 3.82
  • MS Dhoni:
    • Innings: 430
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 108
    • Innings/50+: 3.56
  • Brendon McCullum:
    • Innings: 438
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 71
    • Innings/50+: 5.81
  • Kumar Sangakkara:
    • Innings: 594
    • Centuries: 63
    • Fifties: 153
    • Innings/50+: 3.49
  • Mushfiqur Rahim:
    • Innings: 384
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 51
    • Innings/50+: 6.98
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz:
    • Innings: 97
    • Centuries: 2
    • Fifties: 11
    • Innings/50+: 7.54
  • Brendon Taylor:
    • Innings: 319
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 44
    • Innings/50+: 6.61
  • Shai Hope:
    • Innings: 232
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 48
    • Innings/50+: 4.42
  • Muhammad Rizwan:
    • Innings: 254
    • Centuries: 7
    • Fifties: 53
    • Innings/50+: 4.26
  • Kamran Akmal:
    • Innings: 217
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 18
    • Innings/50+: 11.47
  • Sarfaraz Ahmed:
    • Innings: 196
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 21
    • Innings/9.33
  • Andy Flower:
    • Innings: 282
    • Centuries: 12
    • Fifties: 63
    • Innings/50+: 4.18
Was surprised to find Rizwan's innings per 50+ is actually greater than Gilly, Butler, McCullam Hope and just below Andy Flower who should be ahead of Brendon in this list. So as ungainly as his batting might seem, he is mighty effective.
Click to expand...
You added Rizwan’s 100+ T20is in this to prove Rizwan might be a better player than Gilchrist overall?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We can have discussions but the agenda here by the OP's own admission is not to have a discussion but to "destroy" Pakistani keepers. This is an insult to us fans and to Pak players. Thread's agenda is in poor taste.
 
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emranabbas said:
Pakistan has never had a complete wicket keeper batsmen in the modern era

Rizwan - good keeper - poor batsmen
Sarfaraz - average keeper - average batsmen
Kamran - poor keeper - average batsmen
Click to expand...
I don't think Rizwan is a worse batsman than Sarfraz or Kamran.

Kamran had the highest potential with the bat. Some of the knocks he played are knocks that Rizwan or Sarfraz can only dream of. But overall he was mediocre.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I don't think Rizwan is a worse batsman than Sarfraz or Kamran.

Kamran had the highest potential with the bat. Some of the knocks he played are knocks that Rizwan or Sarfraz can only dream of. But overall he was mediocre.
Click to expand...
I think we should start a discussion thread about impact vs consistency.

Recently alot of people have been talking about these 2 points aka what's better to have in your lineup, An impact batsmen like rohit sharma, Travis head etc or a consistent batsmen like Joe root.

You brought up a very good point on Kamran playing greater impact knocks but being overall more inconsistent then sarfi and rizzu.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I don't think Rizwan is a worse batsman than Sarfraz or Kamran.

Kamran had the highest potential with the bat. Some of the knocks he played are knocks that Rizwan or Sarfraz can only dream of. But overall he was mediocre.
Click to expand...

Kamran Akmal, in the early part of his career, was a standout batsman who regularly won games for Pakistan. He had the ability to perform under pressure and make a significant impact. Similarly, Sarfaraz Ahmed also contributed crucially when he was in form, playing match-winning knocks for the team.

However, when Sarfaraz's form started to decline, he adjusted his role, lowered his batting position, and ensured he didn’t become a liability for the team. He understood his limitations and found ways to stay useful without dragging the team down.

In contrast, Mohammad Rizwan seems focused on establishing himself as a specialist batsman, but his performances have often ended up being a burden on the team. To be honest, I can’t recall many instance where Rizwan has single-handedly won a game for Pakistan giving amout of games he's played for pakistan.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
We can have discussions but the agenda here by the OP's own admission is not to have a discussion but to "destroy" Pakistani keepers. This is an insult to us fans and to Pak players. Thread's agenda is in poor taste.
Click to expand...
I can purchase vanilla ice cream from the market and you'll still proclaim that me purchasing ice cream was in poor taste as I should have opted for choclate.

maybe if Pakistan didn't produce such rubbish wicket keeping batters we wouldn't be having such a discussion.

Azam Khan being the worst and rizwan being the best + Kamran being the most impactful is a joke and shows how poor the quality of Pakistani keepers are.
 
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While I love kamran and sarfi for their services to pakistan cricket.

Ultimately Pakistani keepers are by far the worst and I repeat the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to being players.

Neither of rizzu, Sarfi, Kamran, moin khan etc etc would even make it to Afghanistan's playing 11 let alone be made captain of their respective countries.

Gurbaz is a gem compared to these 3. Kamran when onsong is comparable but gurbaz is more consistent and equally as impactful.
 
Just talk about " PAKISTAN PRODUCING GOOD OR BAD KEEPERS ONLY"
 
Pakistan has produced very good keepers - Bari, Moin, Rashid, Rizwan are all good keepers to varying degrees. The worst were Sarfaraz and Kami, below average and lucky to play more than 2 test matches.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Just talk about " PAKISTAN PRODUCING GOOD OR BAD KEEPERS ONLY"
Click to expand...
I am brother, infact I've made sure that we only talk about keepers vs keepers.

I respect my own thread creations. Not my fault if others don't abide. Now with that being said

Even 2nd string keepers from other nations have proven to be better keepers then anyone Pakistan has ever produced.

Australia : Hodge, Carey, Inglis, Wade

South africa: Boucher, de villers, Klaseen

india: Karthik, Pant, Rahul

New Zealand: Latham, Philips, Conway

List Goes on and on. Infact take the absolute worst keeper that Zimbabwe has ever produced and i guanratee you he'll still be > Azam Khan.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
I again ask the mods to not allow threads that are purely meant to bash Pakistani players with no intention to have a discussion. Pakistan has produced very good keepers - Bari, Moin, Rashid, Rizwan are all good keepers to varying degrees. The worst were Sarfaraz and Kami, below average and lucky to play more than 2 test matches.
Click to expand...
Moin, Rashid, Rizwan vs Gilchrist, Carey, Inglis, Wade and Hodge, let's hear it.
 
Nah...

West Indies: Dujon, Jacobs, Ramdin, Dowrich, Murray, Brown, De Silva..

Walcott was never a full time keeper so i don't count him.

Dujon is the only quality keeper here. Shai Hope is not even a test cricketer. He is rubbish in Odi's as well. Don't get fooled by his average.

Sri Lanka: Romesh, Prasanna, Dickwella.
Sanga was not a full time keeper in tests. Neither are Chandimal and Mendis who are rotating right now.

1. Australia
2. England
3. South Africa
4. India
5. New Zealand
6. Pakistan


Moin and Rashid were fine for their times. Sarfaraz was good for a while.

Rizwan is an exceptional test cricketer.

A very good odi one too even if he does not quite match up to what the other teams have. Better than Latham, Hope, Mendis, Carey, etc.
 
mominsaigol said:
Moin, Rashid, Rizwan vs Gilchrist, Carey, Inglis, Wade and Hodge, let's hear it.
Click to expand...
Who is Hodge? Brad Hodge never kept.
Do you mean Brad Haddin? Healy and Marsh are there too.

Australia of course smash Pakistan in this category.
 
DTrump said:
Who is Hodge? Brad Hodge never kept.
Do you mean Brad Haddin? Healy and Marsh are there too.

Australia of course smash Pakistan in this category.
Click to expand...
Haddin, sorry, my phone is auto correcting for some reason I just noticed.

As for moin and latif hard disagree. Moin is a 23 avg batter in odi after 213 matches lol
 
@mominsaigol - Moin Khan in 99 WC was very good and was best batsman in that tournament along with Lance Klusener. I think Pakistan have under used him.
 
Rajdeep said:
@mominsaigol - Moin Khan in 99 WC was very good and was best batsman in that tournament along with Lance Klusener. I think Pakistan have under used him.
Click to expand...
Ik, however thats the equivalent of saying Sarfaraz was Pakistan's best batsmen and was heaps and shoulders > Everyone else in wc 2015.

Don't get me wrong, Sarfi was only > his own Pakistani players and not even close to the top tournament performers while moin was 2nd to klusner.

But it was a one off. He's a 23 avg batter with 0 centuries in odi after playing 213 odi games.

Irrespective of era's a 23 avg is terrible.
 
mominsaigol said:
Haddin, sorry, my phone is auto correcting for some reason I just noticed.

As for moin and latif hard disagree. Moin is a 23 avg batter in odi after 213 matches lol
Click to expand...
Moin made his debut in 1990 and last game in 2004.
Average of 23 is indeed meh but he had a smashing SR. 81. Compare it to the keepers of his time.

Kalu: Average 22 and SR: 77
DJ Richardson: Average 19 and SR 66
Jacobs: Average 23 and SR 70

Times have changed. Buttler, QDK, Bairstow, Klaasen. All these guys are definitely better. Sure
But, Wade with an odi average of 26 and SR of 81 is not better.
 
DTrump said:
Moin made his debut in 1990 and last game in 2004.
Average of 23 is indeed meh but he had a smashing SR. 81. Compare it to the keepers of his time.

Kalu: Average 22 and SR: 77
DJ Richardson: Average 19 and SR 66
Jacobs: Average 23 and SR 70

Times have changed. Buttler, QDK, Bairstow, Klaasen. All these guys are definitely better. Sure
But, Wade with an odi average of 26 and SR of 81 is not better.
Click to expand...
You've made an excellent point in Mattew Wade. I agree with you now.
 
Keepers pre Gilchrist should not be judged for their batting.
A 21st century comparison of keeper bat is fair and square but it's muddled waters trying to judge some of those oldies.
 
Keeper batsman to debut in the 21st century.

India: Parthiv Patel, MS Dhoni, Rishabh Pant.
South Africa: Quinton De Kock
West Indies: Dinesh Ramdin
Pakistan: Sarfaraz Ahmed, Mohammed Rizwan, Kamran Akmal
Australia: Wade, Carey, Haddin
Bangladesh: Rahim, Litton
Sri Lanka: Dickwella
England: Prior, Bairstow, Buttler
New Zealand: Blundell, Watling, Brendon.

Not considering Sanga, AB, KLaasen, Pooran, Hope, etc who are irregular keepers or do not play tests

Like you can see, Pakistan hardly are the worst of the bunch.
They will be terrible in fast bowling, spin bowling, batting, fielding. Keeping is one category they have done reasonably alright
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Post Gilchrist, no Australian keeper is even worth mentioning - medicore HTBs and FTBs like most of the current Aussie set up.
Click to expand...
Shows how rubbish pakistani keepers are that nobodies have a higher status then pakistani keepers.

Rizwan, Azam, Usman Khan who?????
 
mominsaigol said:
Shows how rubbish pakistani keepers are that nobodies have a higher status then pakistani keepers.

Rizwan, Azam, Usman Khan who?????
Click to expand...
Azam and Usman are irrelevant. But every other Pak keeper is better than every Aus keeper not named Gilchrist or Healy. I am not going to engage someone who thought Hodge was a keeper and blamed it on auto correct LOL!
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Rizwan is one of the match all format keepers in the world today. He averages more than Head in tests away from home. He is better than Dhoni. @Mamoon
Click to expand...
Rizwan is a legend for Pakistan cricket. He has many years left but he is already the GOAT WK batsman in Pakistan history.

I have seen Moin, Latif, Kamran Akmal and Sarfaraz. Let’s not talk about the other temporary options.

He is much better than all of them with the bat and only Latif was a better keeper than him.

People will realize the worth of Rizwan when he retires. His competition - who also represent the future - is laughable (Azam, Haris, Haseebullah etc.)
 
Mamoon said:
Rizwan is a legend for Pakistan cricket. He has many years left but he is already the GOAT WK batsman in Pakistan history.

I have seen Moin, Latif, Kamran Akmal and Sarfaraz. Let’s not talk about the other temporary options.

He is much better than all of them with the bat and only Latif was a better keeper than him.

People will realize the worth of Rizwan when he retires. His competition - who also represent the future - is laughable (Azam, Haris, Haseebullah etc.)
Click to expand...
I am not going to engage certain people now. I was just told Hodge is a wicket keeper and then lies that it was a typo LOL! Fans who have no opinions are exposed and agendas clear. @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Caved12 @Major
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
I am not going to engage certain people now. I was just told Hodge is a wicket keeper and then lies that it was a typo LOL! Fans who have no opinions are exposed and agendas clear. @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Caved12 @Major
Click to expand...
They also spent weeks hyping up Inglis but we saw how average he is. Rizwan is better than Dhoni in Test and T20Is for sure.
 
Mamoon said:
They also spent weeks hyping up Inglis but we saw how average he is. Rizwan is better than Dhoni in Test and T20Is for sure.
Click to expand...
Dhoni was useless in T20I. Utterly medicore. Who even is Inglis? Must be Australia's Azam Khan LOL!
 
shah9425 said:
Rizwan is head and shoulders above all wicket keepers that Pakistan has produced

I have seen Akmal Sarfraz Moin and Rashid all were average as compared to Rizwan
Click to expand...

In terms of keeping skills, Moin and Rashid Latif were better. I didn't see Wasim Bari live but I heard good things about him.

I am talking about keeping skills. Not batting.
 
sweep_shot said:
In terms of keeping skills, Moin and Rashid Latif were better. I didn't see Wasim Bari live but I heard good things about him.

I am talking about keeping skills. Not batting.
Click to expand...
Latif was a top notch keeper. Moin was average. He was only a little better than Kamran. He used to drop so many catches.
 
Kamran was mega talented. Didn’t try hard enough to develop his game or have great fitness. We made a mistake of not dropping him for a longer period of time. When we finally did it he worked hard and developed his game becoming one of the best in domestic and psl. Yet we moved on permanently at that point and was too old.

Sarfraz early on in his career was a better wicketkeeper and adequately fit being one of the best at taking singles despite not being a natural boundary hitter. Became less fit and didn’t work on his game as years past in international cricket especially when he became captain and keeping deterioated.

Rizwan the least talented of the lot. He wasn’t even a good keeper early on. But improved himself through hard work and good fitness. And will end up as the best of the three (already is really).

Moral of the story is to work hard and maintain fitness. We didn’t have a problem with lack of talent in wicketkeepers it was lack of work ethic.

Can only imagine just how good Sarfraz and kamran would have been with rizwan’s work ethic. Especially Kamran, I think it would have been bonkers how good he would have been.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
I am not going to engage certain people now. I was just told Hodge is a wicket keeper and then lies that it was a typo LOL! Fans who have no opinions are exposed and agendas clear. @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Caved12 @Major
Click to expand...
These are after-effects of watching Kaptaana lift the ODI trophy recently.

They thought Australian series was a fluke and had pinned all their hopes on Africa.

Sometimes it becomes difficult to bear extreme humiliation, no matter how much you are used to it.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
View attachment 148909

This is why I have stopped engaging. This is only an attempt to troll Pakistan and Rizwan, OP doesn't even know his "own country" wicket keepers. lol
Click to expand...
To be fair he started watching the game after 2015. So he must have misread the cricinfo scorecards.

This is why i say, people who have not watched something should not be passing comments that xyz is better than so and so
 
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