Is pakistan the worst country when it comes to producing wicket keeping batters?

These are after-effects of watching Kaptaana lift the ODI trophy recently.

They thought Australian series was a fluke and had pinned all their hopes on Africa.

Sometimes it becomes difficult to bear extreme humiliation, no matter how much you are used to it.
To be fair he started watching the game after 2015. So he must have misread the cricinfo scorecards.

This is why i say, people who have not watched something should not be passing comments that xyz is better than so and so
Agreed with both of you. Btw he was arguing that Yousuf is a great chaser in another thread and used Yousuf's 14 100s in won matches to claim it, his filter was wrong and he didn't realise that Yousuf has only 2 centuries chasing LOL! Scorecard knowledge is ok as long as you can at least read scorecards correctly. Said poster started watching in 2021 most likely.
 
I am brother, infact I've made sure that we only talk about keepers vs keepers.

I respect my own thread creations. Not my fault if others don't abide. Now with that being said

Even 2nd string keepers from other nations have proven to be better keepers then anyone Pakistan has ever produced.

Australia : Hodge, Carey, Inglis, Wade

South africa: Boucher, de villers, Klaseen

india: Karthik, Pant, Rahul

New Zealand: Latham, Philips, Conway


List Goes on and on. Infact take the absolute worst keeper that Zimbabwe has ever produced and i guanratee you he'll still be > Azam Khan.
. Most of these keepers are far worst then Rizwan if you combine a three formats. Likes of Boucher was very ordinary batsman. Karthik as a keeper batsman in international is laughable. Judgement should be made how they performed in their careers as batsmen not how they looked aying their shots. As for Pakistani Kamran Akmal he always appeared just a little better than tailender when ever I watched him bat, even when he played some blinders for Pakistan. I was more assured watching Sarfraz bat for Pakistan than Akmal. Rizwan is on another level than those two, and in his incomplete career already has a good performing career, despite playing in average batting team.
 
Also Hanif Mohammed was not wicketkeeper as far asi know, though never seen him bat. Pakistan also had two good batsmen keepers Taslim Arif and Saleem Yusuf, but did not play enough to judge their careers.
 
Interesting thread, in pursuit of trying to prove the OP wrong, i thoughts lets look at the MoM/Player of the match awards for the list of players mentioned above. Surely Rizwan having the 8th highest MoM awards in T20Is ever would prove he's a match winner worthy of being mentioned in the above list. But recency bias might have got the better of me and i think the OP might be on to something...

Player of the Match awards across Test, ODI, and T20I formats:

  • Adam Gilchrist (Australia):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 33
    • T20Is: 20
    • Total: 55
  • Jos Buttler (England):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 16
    • T20Is: 22
    • Total: 38
  • Quinton de Kock (South Africa):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 28
    • T20Is: 19
    • Total: 49
  • MS Dhoni (India):
    • Tests: 6
    • ODIs: 69
    • T20Is: 16
    • Total: 91
  • Brendon McCullum (New Zealand):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 27
    • T20Is: 24
    • Total: 54
  • Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka):
    • Tests: 11
    • ODIs: 25
    • T20Is: 14
    • Total: 50
  • Mushfiqur Rahim (Bangladesh):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 17
    • T20Is: 9
    • Total: 29
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz (Afghanistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 3
    • Total: 3
  • Brendon Taylor (Zimbabwe):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 11
    • T20Is: 4
    • Total: 15
  • Shai Hope (West Indies):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 36
    • T20Is: 6
    • Total: 45
  • Muhammad Rizwan (Pakistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 12
    • Total: 12
But does Rizwan really not belong? My personal opinion is that Rizwan can very easily make it in to this Pakistan team as a batter alone. So surely there has to be data that backs up his productivity as a batter when compared to the above mentioned list. So i dug deeper, and did some additional analysis that could add insight to this conversation:

Below is the above listed players with their total innings, 100s, 50s, and number of innings per 50+ score. I've added a few additional names to the list of my own accord just to see where these WK/batters fit.

Name, total innings, centuries, fifties, and the number of innings per fifty-plus score (including centuries):

  • Adam Gilchrist:
    • Innings: 375
    • Centuries: 21
    • Fifties: 64
    • Innings/50+: 5.86
  • Jos Buttler:
    • Innings: 286
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 55
    • Innings/50+: 4.91
  • Quinton de Kock:
    • Innings: 311
    • Centuries: 24
    • Fifties: 77
    • Innings/50+: 3.82
  • MS Dhoni:
    • Innings: 430
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 108
    • Innings/50+: 3.56
  • Brendon McCullum:
    • Innings: 438
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 71
    • Innings/50+: 5.81
  • Kumar Sangakkara:
    • Innings: 594
    • Centuries: 63
    • Fifties: 153
    • Innings/50+: 3.49
  • Mushfiqur Rahim:
    • Innings: 384
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 51
    • Innings/50+: 6.98
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz:
    • Innings: 97
    • Centuries: 2
    • Fifties: 11
    • Innings/50+: 7.54
  • Brendon Taylor:
    • Innings: 319
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 44
    • Innings/50+: 6.61
  • Shai Hope:
    • Innings: 232
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 48
    • Innings/50+: 4.42
  • Muhammad Rizwan:
    • Innings: 254
    • Centuries: 7
    • Fifties: 53
    • Innings/50+: 4.26
  • Kamran Akmal:
    • Innings: 217
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 18
    • Innings/50+: 11.47
  • Sarfaraz Ahmed:
    • Innings: 196
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 21
    • Innings/9.33
  • Andy Flower:
    • Innings: 282
    • Centuries: 12
    • Fifties: 63
    • Innings/50+: 4.18
Was surprised to find Rizwan's innings per 50+ is actually greater than Gilly, Butler, McCullam Hope and just below Andy Flower who should be ahead of Brendon in this list. So as ungainly as his batting might seem, he is mighty effective.
Ms Dhoni with 91 MOTM leads the group by a big margin.

Ms Dhoni is better than Rizwan in all formats, in Odis he is the GOAT finisher and wktkeeper batsman, in t20s he was not great but still on a different level to Rizwan who wastes the powerplay and has no power game when compared to Dhoni.

In test Ms Dhoni was great in home condition and wouldn’t have let his team lose against Bangladesh, even away from home he helped us win a test series in England and even took us to number onr rank.
 
. Most of these keepers are far worst then Rizwan if you combine a three formats. Likes of Boucher was very ordinary batsman. Karthik as a keeper batsman in international is laughable. Judgement should be made how they performed in their careers as batsmen not how they looked aying their shots. As for Pakistani Kamran Akmal he always appeared just a little better than tailender when ever I watched him bat, even when he played some blinders for Pakistan. I was more assured watching Sarfraz bat for Pakistan than Akmal. Rizwan is on another level than those two, and in his incomplete career already has a good performing career, despite playing in average batting team.
Let's look at proper facts.

Fact No 1: Cricket was harder batting wise before 2011 2 new ball rule implementation

Its why the likes of pointing, sachin and lara avg 40 to 45 qith 79 to 86 sr only but it's clear as day these 3 are better then any odi batter in the current era including Travis head.

Hence these 40 to 45 avg in this day and age means nothing.

Fact no 2: Rizwan since his career in odi, Barely avg 40 and it'll probably fall down to 35 or 33 at the back end of his career since he can barely maintain 40 at his absolute peak.

Not only that hes only managed 3 international centuries with 2 of them being vs C string aus.

Mark boucher at no 4 averages 55 with a strike rate of 112 with a 147 not out. He was perfect at that no, however sa knew that better batters exist which is why he was shoved to no 6.

At no 6 his numbers fell off as he wasn't a no 6 batter but he sucked it up because he played for the team, he was not gonna replace Kallis as an odi batter.

At every no boucher outshines rizwan by miles, rizzu's stats at no 5, 6 and 7 are a joke. Only both of them at the no 5 position is comparable.

Difference is rizwan now plays majority of his games at no 4 while boucher played at 6.

This is why people who didn't watch games in that era have no clue about anything.

I watched these players, and ik my cricket lol
 
They also spent weeks hyping up Inglis but we saw how average he is. Rizwan is better than Dhoni in Test and T20Is for sure.
In Odis there is absolutely no comparison.

In t20s, Rizwan is a baggage and his runs pull the team back, so even here Dhoni wins.

In tests, Rizwan has better stats away from home right now, but lets see what happens in a coupld of years. Dhoni was impactful in home Asian conditions in test cricket unlike Rizwan, who hasn’t played a single impactful test knock yet.

Dhoni wins 3-0.
 
Also Hanif Mohammed was not wicketkeeper as far asi know, though never seen him bat. Pakistan also had two good batsmen keepers Taslim Arif and Saleem Yusuf, but did not play enough to judge their careers.
Yes he was, shows how uneducated this post is.
 
In Odis there is absolutely no comparison.

In t20s, Rizwan is a baggage and his runs pull the team back, so even here Dhoni wins.

In tests, Rizwan has better stats away from home right now, but lets see what happens in a coupld of years. Dhoni was impactful in home Asian conditions in test cricket unlike Rizwan, who hasn’t played a single impactful test knock yet.

Dhoni wins 3-0.
Now ik why you talk about how uneducated pakistani posters are. 90% of these guys are clueless. Might as well start supporting Indian posters again 🤣🤣.

These guys have driven me to insanity and have made me hate cricket.
 
Agreed with both of you. Btw he was arguing that Yousuf is a great chaser in another thread and used Yousuf's 14 100s in won matches to claim it, his filter was wrong and he didn't realise that Yousuf has only 2 centuries chasing LOL! Scorecard knowledge is ok as long as you can at least read scorecards correctly. Said poster started watching in 2021 most likely.
Yousaf is 100x the batter odi and test batter Rizwan and babar will ever be in odi. Not even a comparison as to who's superior
 
Ms Dhoni with 91 MOTM leads the group by a big margin.

Ms Dhoni is better than Rizwan in all formats, in Odis he is the GOAT finisher and wktkeeper batsman, in t20s he was not great but still on a different level to Rizwan who wastes the powerplay and has no power game when compared to Dhoni.

In test Ms Dhoni was great in home condition and wouldn’t have let his team lose against Bangladesh, even away from home he helped us win a test series in England and even took us to number onr rank.
Rizwan actually performed well against Bangladesh, it's Pakistan bowling mainly to blame for losing series.
 
How is Rizwan better than Dhoni? Dhoni is arguably the greatest finisher in one days…also, stop following Cricinfo and actually watch the game, it’s not always about stats. Head is miles better than Rizwan like it’s not even a comparison.

We just watched the Pak V South Africa series and Rizwan done very well but look at Klassen, he was miles better. Rizwan is a good wicket keeper batsman and a good captain but he has certain limitations, I would say he is a bit better than Mushfiqur Rahim in the list above, that’s about it.
Riz was captaining and batting in an inexperience batting line up bar himself and Babar.

He has a greater responsibility to stay out there to build a platform.

Klassen could play with freedom with his experience plus S A having experience in the form of bavuma, RVD and miller.

In the end he played the way he did because he knew S A were loosing anyway.

You have to understand the situations to make a comparison.
 
Boucher avg 55 with 112 sr at 4 and avg exactly the same avg as rizwan at 5 with a higher sr.

This is factoring in the fact that he played in a much harder era where even the likes of Sachin couldn't avg 50 and 90+ sr.

However sa isn't Pakistan. They knew full well that deapite boucher being mighty talented, he just doesn't replace the likes of kallis in the middle order.

He had no choice but to bat at 6 and he achieved his duty for his country.

Rizwan on the other hand is a circus clown at any other number barring 4. He only has better stats thanks to batting at no 4 for over a year now, and even then barely is maintaining a 40 avg in odi in Cricket's most batting friendly era.

Huge insult to compare him to boucher and now it's clear that 99% of rizwan fans started watching cricket at around the 2010 to 2012 mark.

Their clueless and just too young and immature.
 
Yes he was, shows how uneducated this post is.
What is so u educational about the post he was never more than occasional keeper for Pakistan at Internationals. If you including him than you may as well include Umar Akmal too.
 
Boucher avg 55 with 112 sr at 4 and avg exactly the same avg as rizwan at 5 with a higher sr.

This is factoring in the fact that he played in a much harder era where even the likes of Sachin couldn't avg 50 and 90+ sr.

However sa isn't Pakistan. They knew full well that deapite boucher being mighty talented, he just doesn't replace the likes of kallis in the middle order.

He had no choice but to bat at 6 and he achieved his duty for his country.

Rizwan on the other hand is a circus clown at any other number barring 4. He only has better stats thanks to batting at no 4 for over a year now, and even then barely is maintaining a 40 avg in odi in Cricket's most batting friendly era.

Huge insult to compare him to boucher and now it's clear that 99% of rizwan fans started watching cricket at around the 2010 to 2012 mark.

Their clueless and just too young and immature.
How many Tests did Boucher batted at 4, he would not had maintained good average at 4 if he batted for lengthy period. And I have seen bat a lot and he was just Pollock level batsman, but was for sure gritty and much better than Akmal or Sarfraz.
 
How many Tests did Boucher batted at 4, he would not had maintained good average at 4 if he batted for lengthy period. And I have seen bat a lot and he was just Pollock level batsman, but was for sure gritty and much better than Akmal or Sarfraz.
I'm not saying boucher would have maintained that 55 avg. Obviously he wouldn't, even Sachin can't reach it.

However he's defo a 35 avg batter for that era at 4 which is the same avg as gilly however his sr would be lower and he'd have fewer centuries.

Rizwan on the other hand is playing in Cricket's easiet batting era and barely maintaining a 40 avg in odi and only has 3 centuries in 10 years of playing.

That's embrassing and he would never reach it if he played at no 6
 
I'm not saying boucher would have maintained that 55 avg. Obviously he wouldn't, even Sachin can't reach it.

However he's defo a 35 avg batter for that era at 4 which is the same avg as gilly however his sr would be lower and he'd have fewer centuries.

Rizwan on the other hand is playing in Cricket's easiet batting era and barely maintaining a 40 avg in odi and only has 3 centuries in 10 years of playing.

That's embrassing and he would never reach it if he played at no 6
40 average even in this career is good, especially for Wicketkeeper batsman, and despite 10 years career Pakistan does not play many tests per year, and always has had averagw batting team since retirement of Younis Kan and Misbah,so often bats with Pakistan under pressure and bowling with tail up. Rizwan also plays 3 formats and performs in all 3.
 
40 average even in this career is good, especially for Wicketkeeper batsman, and despite 10 years career Pakistan does not play many tests per year, and always has had averagw batting team since retirement of Younis Kan and Misbah,so often bats with Pakistan under pressure and bowling with tail up. Rizwan also plays 3 formats and performs in all 3.
I am talking about odi's. 40 avg is not good.

Now if you want to talk about tests, Rizwan has zero overseas cemturies. He's been a flat track pindi bully. As soon as Pakistan went back to curating spin havens, rizzu averages 19 in test cricket.

Infact he was so bad in test fir a while that they had to drop him for sarfaraz. That's how bad he was.

However Australia test series saved his test career.
 
In Odis there is absolutely no comparison.

In t20s, Rizwan is a baggage and his runs pull the team back, so even here Dhoni wins.

In tests, Rizwan has better stats away from home right now, but lets see what happens in a coupld of years. Dhoni was impactful in home Asian conditions in test cricket unlike Rizwan, who hasn’t played a single impactful test knock yet.

Dhoni wins 3-0.
Dhoni along with Laxman are the biggest frauds in Indian cricket history. He was a far bigger baggage than Rizwan in T20Is and he was an ordinary Test batsman as well. It is only in ODIs where he is clearly ahead of Rizwan.

“Rizwan hasn’t played a single impactful Test knock yet” is a factually incorrect statement.

His maiden Test century vs South Africa in Rawalpindi was a highly impactful innings. He scored an unbeaten century vs Rabada, Nortje, Maharaj when Pakistan were wobbling badly in the third innings at 140/7 and no other batsman could score a half-century.

Please don’t make blanket statements when you don’t watch Pakistan cricket closely enough to accurately remember who has or who hasn’t played impactful innings.
 
Let's look at proper facts.

Fact No 1: Cricket was harder batting wise before 2011 2 new ball rule implementation

Its why the likes of pointing, sachin and lara avg 40 to 45 qith 79 to 86 sr only but it's clear as day these 3 are better then any odi batter in the current era including Travis head.

Hence these 40 to 45 avg in this day and age means nothing.

Fact no 2: Rizwan since his career in odi, Barely avg 40 and it'll probably fall down to 35 or 33 at the back end of his career since he can barely maintain 40 at his absolute peak.

Not only that hes only managed 3 international centuries with 2 of them being vs C string aus.

Mark boucher at no 4 averages 55 with a strike rate of 112 with a 147 not out. He was perfect at that no, however sa knew that better batters exist which is why he was shoved to no 6.

At no 6 his numbers fell off as he wasn't a no 6 batter but he sucked it up because he played for the team, he was not gonna replace Kallis as an odi batter.

At every no boucher outshines rizwan by miles, rizzu's stats at no 5, 6 and 7 are a joke. Only both of them at the no 5 position is comparable.

Difference is rizwan now plays majority of his games at no 4 while boucher played at 6.

This is why people who didn't watch games in that era have no clue about anything.

I watched these players, and ik my cricket lol
Mark boucher s 147 was against a z string Zimbabwe you fraud and he averaged 28.57 in ODI s playing 295 matches with the 1 epic 147 zimbabwe knock and 26 50s.

Your quote which is a lie Mark boucher at no 4 averages 55 with a strike rate of 112 with a 147 not out.

That was against zimbabwe after that 147 knock.

Not his career average at 4.


He batted 6 innings at 4 2 of those against Zimbabwe.

Your trying hard to make Riz look bad but your flopping and only making yourself look bad by stooping low to create things that don't exist to satisfy yourself.

You clearly don't know your cricket.
 
Mark boucher s 147 was against a z string Zimbabwe you fraud and he averaged 28.57 in ODI s playing 295 matches with the 1 epic 147 zimbabwe knock and 26 50s.

Your quote which is a lie Mark boucher at no 4 averages 55 with a strike rate of 112 with a 147 not out.

That was against zimbabwe after that 147 knock.

Not his career average at 4.


He batted 6 innings at 4 2 of those against Zimbabwe.

Your trying hard to make Riz look bad but your flopping and only making yourself look bad by stooping low to create things that don't exist to satisfy yourself.

You clearly don't know your cricket.
He is hyping everyone's stats to make Rizwan look bad, but to suggest Boucher or Karthik are better players than Rizwan is what I will actually term uneducational.
 
Overall, Kamran Akmal is better then Rizwan as a keeper batter overall across forms, I will believe that till the day I die, and I will die on this hill. I am too old to prove it in great detail, but I got nothing to prove to a bunch of new cricket fans. The fallacy of Rizwan will keep getting exposed, so he is my literal proof each time he puts on a pair of gloves.
 
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Mark boucher s 147 was against a z string Zimbabwe you fraud and he averaged 28.57 in ODI s playing 295 matches with the 1 epic 147 zimbabwe knock and 26 50s.

Your quote which is a lie Mark boucher at no 4 averages 55 with a strike rate of 112 with a 147 not out.

That was against zimbabwe after that 147 knock.

Not his career average at 4.


He batted 6 innings at 4 2 of those against Zimbabwe.

Your trying hard to make Riz look bad but your flopping and only making yourself look bad by stooping low to create things that don't exist to satisfy yourself.

You clearly don't know your cricket.
How is it a lie? He averages 55 with a sr of 112 at 4. Thats what i said? Where is the lie?

Go on and explain where I lied? Does he not avg 55 with a sr of 112 at 4? Yes or no
 
How is it a lie? He averages 55 with a sr of 112 at 4. Thats what i said? Where is the lie?

Go on and explain where I lied? Does he not avg 55 with a sr of 112 at 4? Yes or no
I clearly told you NO if you read.

The average your quoting was against zimbabwe after that 147 knock.

Not his career Batting average at 4.


He batted 6 innings at 4 2 of those against Zimbabwe.
 
I clearly told you NO if you read.

The average your quoting was against zimbabwe after that 147 knock.

Not his career Batting average at 4.


He batted 6 innings at 4 2 of those against Zimbabwe.
At no 4, 6 innings, Does he avg 55 with a 112 sr yes or no? If you say no, are claiming that what's listed on howstat is incorrect?
 
At no 4, 6 innings, Does he avg 55 with a 112 sr yes or no? If you say no, are claiming that what's listed on howstat is incorrect?
I know it is but if you read carefully there is a list of 6 averages which are 0.00 / 7.00 / 30.00 / 28.50 / 65.25 and 55.80 for the 6 innings.

The highlighted ones are the two Zimbabwe knocks with the 147 not out inflating the average further.
 
I know it is but if you read carefully there is a list of 6 averages which are 0.00 / 7.00 / 30.00 / 28.50 / 65.25 and 55.80 for the 6 innings.

The highlighted ones are the two Zimbabwe knocks with the 147 not out inflating the average further.
Okay, so quick question. Why does this not apply to rizwan or babar? Nepal is a strong team?

You realise if we remove all c string filters rizwan has only 1 century, followed by an avg of 33? That too in Cricket's most batting friendly era?
 
Okay, so quick question. Why does this not apply to rizwan or babar? Nepal is a strong team?

You realise if we remove all c string filters rizwan has only 1 century, followed by an avg of 33? That too in Cricket's most batting friendly era?
Remove it and post the numbers and what filter was applied. Will be interesting.
 
OP needs to realise that quality of Pakistan team during 80s & 90s was very strong that rarely anybody cared who their keeper was. Our keepers batted at No. 7 and even 8 due to riches of talent at hand.

Pakistan XI 80s' keeper @ No.9

Mohsin Khan
Majid Khan
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Ramiz Raja
Saleem Malik
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Saleem Yusuf+
Abdul Qadir
Saleem Jaffar
-------------------------

90s Pakistan XI, keeper @9
Saeed Anwar
Shahid Afridi
Ijaz Ahmed
Inzimam
Moyo
Razzaq
Azhar
Wasim
Moin
Saqlain
Shoaib

However OP seems novice and he has not heard about Wasim Bari, the glovemen rated in top category by the cricket purists
 
Okay, so quick question. Why does this not apply to rizwan or babar? Nepal is a strong team?

You realise if we remove all c string filters rizwan has only 1 century, followed by an avg of 33? That too in Cricket's most batting friendly era?
Nice attempted deflection with the boucher BS but it aint washing.

The Quick answer is how many times have Pakistan played Nepal???.

where has Babar appeared from all of a sudden.

Didn't realise he's also a keeper batter.

You realise he s scored runs against c string of rabada , jansen , shamsi and co as well.

Since becoming skipper Riz has done the unthinkable and created history with a bunch of new players and the haters are chewing their own 💩 and don't know where to turn.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

A Happy new year from KAPTAAN :rizthumbsup:Riz:rizwan.
 
Nice attempted deflection with the boucher BS but it aint washing.

The Quick answer is how many times have Pakistan played Nepal???.

where has Babar appeared from all of a sudden.

Didn't realise he's also a keeper batter.

You realise he s scored runs against c string of rabada , jansen , shamsi and co as well.

Since becoming skipper Riz has done the unthinkable and created history with a bunch of new players and the haters are chewing their own 💩 and don't know where to turn.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

A Happy new year from KAPTAAN :rizthumbsup:Riz:rizwan.
Ayt little bro.
 
Rizwan is world class and no Australian WK post Gilchrist is better than Rizwan in any format.

One can only laugh at the likes of Wade who played 200+ matches across formats and averages in the 20s in all formats. He is not fit to tie Rizwan’s shoelaces.

The likes of Carey and Inglis are not better than him either and neither was Haddin. Thankfully, the OP didn’t mention Paine although I’m sure he was tempted.
 
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Please share it. I want to see how you arrived at the 33 conclusion.
You will never get the numbers for this because they are simply made up. No such number exists. This thread has a pure agenda against Pak keepers explicity stated and one Pak keeper in particular.
 
Rizwan is world class and no Australian WK post Gilchrist is better than Rizwan in any format.

One can only laugh at the likes of Wade who played 200+ matches across formats and averages in the 20s in all formats. He is not fit to tie Rizwan’s shoelaces.

The likes of Carey and Inglis are not better than him either and neither was Haddin. Thankfully, the OP didn’t mention Paine although I’m sure he was tempted.
Probably doesn't know Paine was a keeper, likely thinks Clarke is a keeper.

Fully agree with your post. Pak have produced very good keepers and no one other than Gilchrist since 2000 is in a different league or whatever to any Pak keeper.
 
Overall, Kamran Akmal is better then Rizwan as a keeper batter overall across forms, I will believe that till the day I die, and I will die on this hill. I am too old to prove it in great detail, but I got nothing to prove to a bunch of new cricket fans. The fallacy of Rizwan will keep getting exposed, so he is my literal proof each time he puts on a pair of gloves.
The same Kamran who dropped 2 catches a match or a different one?
 
Mark boucher s 147 was against a z string Zimbabwe you fraud and he averaged 28.57 in ODI s playing 295 matches with the 1 epic 147 zimbabwe knock and 26 50s.

Your quote which is a lie Mark boucher at no 4 averages 55 with a strike rate of 112 with a 147 not out.

That was against zimbabwe after that 147 knock.

Not his career average at 4.


He batted 6 innings at 4 2 of those against Zimbabwe.

Your trying hard to make Riz look bad but your flopping and only making yourself look bad by stooping low to create things that don't exist to satisfy yourself.

You clearly don't know your cricket.
Excellent post but this is typical for the one you're replying to. Has been caught lying a couple of times every day.
 
It is laughable to suggest that Kamran was better than Rizwan. It is not even close.

Kamran played 3-4 epic innings in his career and no doubt those innings are part of Pakistan cricket HOF, but apart from those innings, he was a serial underachiever and a match loser on most part.

Rizwan is a far better player on both sides of the stumps.
 
I am surprised that you are surprised. The last few weeks have been pretty tough for some
Nobody should be suprised. Last few weeks starting from Aus series have been very hard for one and a half posters. They were desperately hoping for Pak to lose, to get whitewashed, scored 450 against...but Team Pakistan did the talking on the field. Now these are desperate attempts to malign Pakistani keepers (explicity mentioned) and especially one keeper. Lies, deflection and the usual. Very enjoyable seeing Pakistan shutting up these 1.5 posters.
 
It is laughable to suggest that Kamran was better than Rizwan. It is not even close.

Kamran played 3-4 epic innings in his career and no doubt those innings are part of Pakistan cricket HOF, but apart from those innings, he was a serial underachiever and a match loser on most part.

Rizwan is a far better player on both sides of the stumps.
Kamran had a potential but he was more involved in politics remember that drama during 2011 WC Zimbabwe match

Sydney 2010 match there were some brilliant keeping behind the stumps
 
Kamran had a potential but he was more involved in politics remember that drama during 2011 WC Zimbabwe match

Sydney 2010 match there were some brilliant keeping behind the stumps
Kamran in 2004-2005 was world class but he went downhill from there apart from a resurgence in 2009 which didn’t last either.

Overall, he was a massive underachiever because he was a better batsman than what his numbers indicate. However, maximizing to your potential is also a part of your ability. Rizwan has that ability.
 
Kamran in 2004-2005 was world class but he went downhill from there apart from a resurgence in 2009 which didn’t last either.

Overall, he was a massive underachiever because he was a better batsman than what his numbers indicate. However, maximizing to your potential is also a part of your ability. Rizwan has that ability.
Rizwan has worked hard and earned his place

He has been a consistent performer with bat and gloves
 
You will never get the numbers for this because they are simply made up. No such number exists. This thread has a pure agenda against Pak keepers explicity stated and one Pak keeper in particular.
It's a shame to see.

Rizwan isn't a perfect player by any means but I don't see the need to go after him so much.
 
The same Kamran who dropped 2 catches a match or a different one?
Akmal’s wicket keeping was a huge liability for the team. He dropped far too many crucial catches and missed stumpings, which often cost us matches. His poor keeping put immense pressure on our bowlers, who were understandably frustrated. They frequently voiced their concerns, as his mistakes would undo their hard work and drain their morale. It’s no exaggeration to say that his keeping alone could turn a winning position into a losing one.
 
Kamran’s inconsistency, both as a wicketkeeper and a batter, had always been a major concern during his career. Many people fail to grasp how difficult it is to win games consistently or build a strong, reliable team around players who lack consistency.

The primary responsibility of a wicketkeeper is to excel behind the stumps. A good keeper provides bowlers with the security and confidence that their hard work won’t be undone by missed chances or sloppy glove work. Cricket, at its core, is a mental game, and bowlers perform best when they’re in a positive mental space. A keeper who struggles behind the stumps drains the energy and morale of the bowlers.

This is why, particularly in Tests and ODIs, I would always prefer a strong wicketkeeper who is an average batter over someone who is a good batter but a subpar keeper. The balance of the team depends on reliability in the field, and wicketkeeping is a specialist role that cannot be compromised.

Comparing Kami to Rizwan is, frankly, laughable. Rizwan is miles ahead in terms of skill, consistency, and value to the team. His work ethic, composure, and ability to deliver under pressure make him the complete package. Rizwan isn’t just a better keeper; he’s also a superior batter, consistently proving his worth across all formats.
 
I can provide said stats, but it'll take a lot of filtering. However what's the point?

Whatever i say you will find some sort of excuse to counter it anyway?

Rizwan averaged 19 against England at home this test series but I'm 100% sure you already have some sort of excuse for it
 
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I can provide said stats, but it'll take a lot of filtering. However what's the point?

Whatever i say you will find some sort of excuse to counter it anyway?

Rizwan averaged 19 against England at home this test series but I'm 100% sure you already have some sort of excuse for it
Provide it! And we can talk. You made those up. Plain and simple.
 
Interesting thread, in pursuit of trying to prove the OP wrong, i thoughts lets look at the MoM/Player of the match awards for the list of players mentioned above. Surely Rizwan having the 8th highest MoM awards in T20Is ever would prove he's a match winner worthy of being mentioned in the above list. But recency bias might have got the better of me and i think the OP might be on to something...

Player of the Match awards across Test, ODI, and T20I formats:

  • Adam Gilchrist (Australia):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 33
    • T20Is: 20
    • Total: 55
  • Jos Buttler (England):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 16
    • T20Is: 22
    • Total: 38
  • Quinton de Kock (South Africa):
    • Tests: 2
    • ODIs: 28
    • T20Is: 19
    • Total: 49
  • MS Dhoni (India):
    • Tests: 6
    • ODIs: 69
    • T20Is: 16
    • Total: 91
  • Brendon McCullum (New Zealand):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 27
    • T20Is: 24
    • Total: 54
  • Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka):
    • Tests: 11
    • ODIs: 25
    • T20Is: 14
    • Total: 50
  • Mushfiqur Rahim (Bangladesh):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 17
    • T20Is: 9
    • Total: 29
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz (Afghanistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 3
    • Total: 3
  • Brendon Taylor (Zimbabwe):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 11
    • T20Is: 4
    • Total: 15
  • Shai Hope (West Indies):
    • Tests: 3
    • ODIs: 36
    • T20Is: 6
    • Total: 45
  • Muhammad Rizwan (Pakistan):
    • Tests: 0
    • ODIs: 0
    • T20Is: 12
    • Total: 12
But does Rizwan really not belong? My personal opinion is that Rizwan can very easily make it in to this Pakistan team as a batter alone. So surely there has to be data that backs up his productivity as a batter when compared to the above mentioned list. So i dug deeper, and did some additional analysis that could add insight to this conversation:

Below is the above listed players with their total innings, 100s, 50s, and number of innings per 50+ score. I've added a few additional names to the list of my own accord just to see where these WK/batters fit.

Name, total innings, centuries, fifties, and the number of innings per fifty-plus score (including centuries):

  • Adam Gilchrist:
    • Innings: 375
    • Centuries: 21
    • Fifties: 64
    • Innings/50+: 5.86
  • Jos Buttler:
    • Innings: 286
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 55
    • Innings/50+: 4.91
  • Quinton de Kock:
    • Innings: 311
    • Centuries: 24
    • Fifties: 77
    • Innings/50+: 3.82
  • MS Dhoni:
    • Innings: 430
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 108
    • Innings/50+: 3.56
  • Brendon McCullum:
    • Innings: 438
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 71
    • Innings/50+: 5.81
  • Kumar Sangakkara:
    • Innings: 594
    • Centuries: 63
    • Fifties: 153
    • Innings/50+: 3.49
  • Mushfiqur Rahim:
    • Innings: 384
    • Centuries: 10
    • Fifties: 51
    • Innings/50+: 6.98
  • Rahmanullah Gurbaz:
    • Innings: 97
    • Centuries: 2
    • Fifties: 11
    • Innings/50+: 7.54
  • Brendon Taylor:
    • Innings: 319
    • Centuries: 17
    • Fifties: 44
    • Innings/50+: 6.61
  • Shai Hope:
    • Innings: 232
    • Centuries: 13
    • Fifties: 48
    • Innings/50+: 4.42
  • Muhammad Rizwan:
    • Innings: 254
    • Centuries: 7
    • Fifties: 53
    • Innings/50+: 4.26
  • Kamran Akmal:
    • Innings: 217
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 18
    • Innings/50+: 11.47
  • Sarfaraz Ahmed:
    • Innings: 196
    • Centuries: 4
    • Fifties: 21
    • Innings/9.33
  • Andy Flower:
    • Innings: 282
    • Centuries: 12
    • Fifties: 63
    • Innings/50+: 4.18
Was surprised to find Rizwan's innings per 50+ is actually greater than Gilly, Butler, McCullam Hope and just below Andy Flower who should be ahead of Brendon in this list. So as ungainly as his batting might seem, he is mighty effective.


Wow MS Dhoni, what a legend and match winner he’s been for us.
 
Not even in bootlicking distance of any of the people I mentioned.

All the guys I've mentioned have notable achievements in icc events, higher century count tally, higher run tallies and overall better performances.

Avg isn't the only metric. By this logic rizwan is > gilly however gilly played in a much harder era.
Depsite kamran akmal’s horrendous wicketkeeping he was twice the batsman rizwan ever will be
 
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