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Is PTI actually doing a good job so far?

Syed1 said:
No point trying to explain simple logic to people who are devoid of grey matter.


Just let him spew his propaganda. The reality is just today PTI won a by-election. Nooras have 5 maybe 10 years of crying ahead of them.
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You can feel his pain over the internet. I quite enjoy his humiliation at not being able to answer a single question of mine. Nooras are not exactly sharp and this guy proves it.
 
I see a lot of talk about the fuel prices in this thread by certain people.
Here's the problem with this discussion.

1. People are mad because fuel prices world wide are rising and thus they are rising in Pakistan too.
2. GoP was previously likely subsidizing prices to keep them low under PPP/PML-N (admittedly with PTI pressure), hence the sudden and massive rise in prices.
3. The Balance of Payments crisis has eliminated the ability of the government to subsidize these fuel prices, and now that the GoP is not artificially keeping the PKR strong against the USD, prices are rising at a compounding rate.
4. Outside of LNG, there aren't alternative energy sources for fuel and electricity.
5. Since PTI is in charge, they get the blame even if they are trying to enforce austerity (which given rising energy prices is fast becoming a fool's errand).

I sincerely hope the discovery of new oil near Karachi is true, but even if it is it will take time to start extracting it. Setting up offshore drilling isn't a simple process, and given the possible location I could see India raising a stink in the UN and other international economic forums.

As far as the rest, IK is trying to get a culture shift going in Pakistan. Contrary to popular belief, the PTI doesn't have total control, particularly in Karachi, and they have to play ball with their coalition in Parliament to get things done.
PTI will do its best, but its best may not be enough.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Again govt chooses to target the masses by adding to their burden of taxes with latest petroleum products price hike. Shameful how govt refuses to collect taxes from the powerful & allows Sharifs & others of their ilk to continue draining national resources thru money laundering.</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/969074720879579137?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 1, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Our PM's tweet on 28 Feb 2018.
 
Anyway, we should not be worried - once the fake degree holder Murad Saeed comes back with his "200 arab dollars", Naya Pakistan will fulfil its vision of establishing a Madinah welfare state with free education, healthcare and heavily subsidised petrol, gas and electricity to improve the living standards of the poor.

They are suffering in Mehenga Pakistan now, but they should take heart from the fact that once the incompetence and corruption of PMLN and PPP are reversed, angels will descend from the heaven and this country will fulfil its destiny of becoming a superpower.

In all seriousness, this government has no vision. They are simply shooting in the dark and every poor decision is conveniently blamed on the previous governments. The bad news is that this farce will end one day because people are already losing patience and understand that they have no idea what they doing.

This of course doesn't include the cult members who will defend and justify everything.
 
Mamoon said:
Anyway, we should not be worried - once the fake degree holder Murad Saeed comes back with his "200 arab dollars", Naya Pakistan will fulfil its vision of establishing a Madinah welfare state with free education, healthcare and heavily subsidised petrol, gas and electricity to improve the living standards of the poor.

They are suffering in Mehenga Pakistan now, but they should take heart from the fact that once the incompetence and corruption of PMLN and PPP are reversed, angels will descend from the heaven and this country will fulfil its destiny of becoming a superpower.

In all seriousness, this government has no vision. They are simply shooting in the dark and every poor decision is conveniently blamed on the previous governments. The bad news is that this farce will end one day because people are already losing patience and understand that they have no idea what they doing.

This of course doesn't include the cult members who will defend and justify everything.
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The people are suffering because corruption has bankrupted the country and no one can fix the disaster left behind by your corrupt friends. They left a 7% deficit behind, borrowed 60bn in 10 years and massive BOP crisis. And now you want IK to solve the problems in less time than it takes to procreate, these are problems your crooked friends created, and you want them back.
 
The mess we are in, was created over the last 40 years, worsened mostly during the eras of democratically elected PPP and PMLN governments. So non stop corruption for better part of a quarter of a century.

How can that be reversed in a few years? We will need at least 15 years to get rid of all the red and get to black. Those who think PTI or IK can fix it in 5 are day day dreaming!
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Government has decided to ease impact of rising oil prices to the masses by reducing the Petroleum Levy on Motor Oil and High Speed Diesel. (1/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686144368578562?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">International Brent crude prices have increased 35% since December 2018, whereas during Jan to Apr 2019 the increase in local petrol prices is 9% and increase in Diesel prices is 10%. (2/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686149292691458?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Consumers in Pakistan pay PKR 98.9/ltr for petrol whereas equivalent price to consumers in India is PKR 147/ltr (3/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686152111325189?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Based on standardized tax rates, OGRA recommended increase of Rs 11.9/ltr on petrol and Rs 11.17 on HSD. Whereas government notified increase of Rs 6ltr on both products. (4/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686155043086337?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rest of the cost is absorbed by the government through reduction in Petroleum Levy. The PL on petrol has been reduced to Rs 8.95ltr, from Rs 14 in Jan 2019. (5/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686157912043520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Similarly, the PL on diesel has been reduced to Rs 13.58ltr in Apr 2019, from Rs 18ltr in Jan 2019. (6/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686160554397696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Since PTI government took office in August 2018, to shield the citizens from rising oil prices, the government has foregone Revenues of Rs 96.6bn on petroleum products. (7/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686163075256320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If PTI govt kept GST and PL the same as in Apr 2018 (under PMLN), govt would have collected additional Rs 127.2bn in GST and lost Rs 30.6bn in PL collection. Net revenue loss of Rs 96.6bn in FY19 to shield citizens (8/8)</p>— Ministry of Finance (@FinMinistryPak) <a href="https://twitter.com/FinMinistryPak/status/1112686165570846720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">JUST IN: Pakistan inflation rises to 9.41 percent in March - statistics bureau <a href="https://t.co/qVPjZtr7t1">pic.twitter.com/qVPjZtr7t1</a></p>— Reuters Afghanistan & Pakistan (@ReutersPakistan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ReutersPakistan/status/1112703903295000577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">JUST IN: Pakistan inflation rises to 9.41 percent in March - statistics bureau <a href="https://t.co/qVPjZtr7t1">pic.twitter.com/qVPjZtr7t1</a></p>— Reuters Afghanistan & Pakistan (@ReutersPakistan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ReutersPakistan/status/1112703903295000577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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And you say the Corruption by Nooras wasn't a problem. It will take the PTI years to put PK on the straight, but IA all the enemies of PK will face humiliation, that is their destiny
 
IK has not performed the way he should have. He needs to focus on 5-10 things. Rather than 100 things.
 
The biggest drop in exchange in recent times...
Oh wait no, that was in pml era, 23 Rs in 8 months (105 to 128).
PML governance is effective but very much like the GOP it bankrupts the country.
Nawazs first tenure saw the yellow cab program decimate Pakistan’s forex. His most recent tenure saw investment driven growth behind CPEC, a sugar high without any real sustainability. His second achievement was to stabilize the power situation, at the expense of guaranteeing profits for life to the IPP.
 
PTI government is failing. Average people are turning against it because it has made their life more difficult. I think they did not have any plans in place before they win the elections and so now they are making plans on fly. On top of that they are taking extremely distasteful decision like changing the name of Benazir Income support program :facepalm:
 
srh said:
PTI government is failing. Average people are turning against it because it has made their life more difficult. I think they did not have any plans in place before they win the elections and so now they are making plans on fly. On top of that they are taking extremely distasteful decision like changing the name of Benazir Income support program :facepalm:
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Why should it be called Benazir Income Support? Does the crooked family pay for the programme? As far as the economy goes, the country was totally bankrupt, so bad that the Finance Minister run off? Deficit was at 7% and borrowing had ballooned to $95bn, and what is worse is that BOP was so bad we had no money to pay for more than a few months imports. And you want all that solved in 7 months when the problems have been mounting for decades.
 
srh said:
PTI government is failing. Average people are turning against it because it has made their life more difficult. I think they did not have any plans in place before they win the elections and so now they are making plans on fly. On top of that they are taking extremely distasteful decision like changing the name of Benazir Income support program :facepalm:
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I do hope he renames the Benazir Income Support Program so that all remaining doubts of his incredible insecurities are laid to rest.
 
Bewal Express said:
Why should it be called Benazir Income Support? Does the crooked family pay for the programme? As far as the economy goes, the country was totally bankrupt, so bad that the Finance Minister run off? Deficit was at 7% and borrowing had ballooned to $95bn, and what is worse is that BOP was so bad we had no money to pay for more than a few months imports. And you want all that solved in 7 months when the problems have been mounting for decades.
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Because she started it duh! Why it bothers you so much if the program's name is based on the person who started it? Who really cares about these pity things? With this decision PTI is coming out like a classless and crass party
 
Mamoon said:
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I do hope he renames the Benazir Income Support Program so that all remaining doubts of his incredible insecurities are laid to rest.
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Why don't you and the PPP get together and fund it from the 9 trillion they have stolen from the poor of Sindh and then you can name it anything you want.
 
just read Hasan Nisar's column and glad that he agree with me about changing the name of Benazir Income Support Program. There is a shortage of intelligent people in PTI otherwise they would have never made such a decision.
 
srh said:
Because she started it duh! Why it bothers you so much if the program's name is based on the person who started it? Who really cares about these pity things? With this decision PTI is coming out like a classless and crass party
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So what?That has to be the silliest logic I have ever seen! Did she fund it from her pocket? If her family wants it named it after her, fund it, name it whatever you want, otherwise no.
 
concentrate on improving the life standard of average joe.
concentrate on getting the money back from the looters.
dont spend time on pity things like renaming a program which shows you as spiteful.
and fire that Sindh governor while you are at it; that guy is good for laughs only.
 
srh said:
Because she started it duh! Why it bothers you so much if the program's name is based on the person who started it? Who really cares about these pity things? With this decision PTI is coming out like a classless and crass party
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The problem with your argument is that she didn't started it, PPP did after her assasination to exploit her name.
 
Zeeraq said:
The problem with your argument is that she didn't started it, PPP did after her assasination to exploit her name.
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did not know that but thats even better; would have looked a bit awkward to name a program after your name which you started while you were in power; but now it makes totally sense that posthumously you were acknowledge by next government by naming a program after you
 
Zeeraq said:
The problem with your argument is that she didn't started it, PPP did after her assasination to exploit her name.
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And on top of that she was a crook. What next, Rahman Dacoit Liyari Sports Complex...
 
Bewal Express said:
Why don't you and the PPP get together and fund it from the 9 trillion they have stolen from the poor of Sindh and then you can name it anything you want.
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What sort of logic is this? It is the largest welfare support program in the country and was established by PPP in 2008.

What purpose would changing its name serve? This is nothing but pettiness on Imran’s part because he cannot digest someone else’s name associated with something good.

However, it appears that he has taken his customary U-turn because this proposal has rightfully received widespread criticism from all quarters including PTI supporters.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
Yes if crooks can be PTI ministers then why not. and btw what is the proof that she was a crook?

Although JKT was a proven to be!
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Don’t expect logic from PTI supporters. All their tall claims have fallen flat on their faces.
 
Mamoon said:
What sort of logic is this? It is the largest welfare support program in the country and was established by PPP in 2008.

What purpose would changing its name serve? This is nothing but pettiness on Imran’s part because he cannot digest someone else’s name associated with something good.

However, it appears that he has taken his customary U-turn because this proposal has rightfully received widespread criticism from all quarters including PTI supporters.
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But it's taxpayers​ money and it should be called income support programme. She stole money from PK, she denied that she owned the Rockingham mansion and years later she sold it. If you or her family are happy to pay for, then I am happy for it to be called anything you want. In the UK Beveridge and Bevan established the social welfare system, but the 2 programmes are called Income Support ( amongst money other things) and the NHS. Please sell your I'll gotten gains, get AZ to do the same and name at your pleasure.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
Do you have a prove of this or this is a political statement like IK said about 35 puncture?
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Either you are very naive or you are trolling or Maybe you are not up to date but just Google the PPP and it's fake accounts for a start( the Falooda walas and their billions) then look at who they put in their public accounts committee to hide their loot and plunder.
 
They are eating their words so far. Asad Umar is looking like a fool. Petrol prices have increased again, inflation has increased the cost of everything. Their only strong point is they are not looters like Noon and PPP. Their incompetence has exposed though.
 
aukhan said:
They are eating their words so far. Asad Umar is looking like a fool. Petrol prices have increased again, inflation has increased the cost of everything. Their only strong point is they are not looters like Noon and PPP. Their incompetence has exposed though.
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This is worth discussion actually. In an ideal world, corruption should not be tolerated. But unfortunately, corruption is common in 3rd world country. India is a good example of that. Their politicians are also corrupt but yet India has made massive progress over the last 2 decades.

Secondly, the claims of the corruption was associated with some of the things that this government is oing themselves. We were told that when dollar goes up or petrol price goes up then assume that corruption is the cause of it. We were told that amnesty schemes were given so the corrupt politician can take benefit of it. I really can on and on.

However, the silver lighting is that everyone is willing to give a chance to this government. Hopefully, when a new government takes over in 2023 then the same patience is shown then.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
This is worth discussion actually. In an ideal world, corruption should not be tolerated. But unfortunately, corruption is common in 3rd world country. India is a good example of that. Their politicians are also corrupt but yet India has made massive progress over the last 2 decades.

Secondly, the claims of the corruption was associated with some of the things that this government is oing themselves. We were told that when dollar goes up or petrol price goes up then assume that corruption is the cause of it. We were told that amnesty schemes were given so the corrupt politician can take benefit of it. I really can on and on.

However, the silver lighting is that everyone is willing to give a chance to this government. Hopefully, when a new government takes over in 2023 then the same patience is shown then.
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Remind him about his statements and ask him about record rupee depreciation of 38 % under his nose with only 1.8 % increase in exports. Ask him about his stance on petrol prices and amnesty schemes when he was in opposition vs Today and his Answer would be same Nonsense Mantra of :


Imran Zardari Corruption bla bla.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Remind him about his statements and ask him about record rupee depreciation of 38 % under his nose with only 1.8 % increase in exports. Ask him about his stance on petrol prices and amnesty schemes when he was in opposition vs Today and his Answer would be same Nonsense Mantra of :


Imran Zardari Corruption bla bla.
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“Pakistan is suffering from a number of imbalances -- they also have a low level of reserves and a currency that is too rigid and overvalued,” IMF Chief Economist Maurice Obstfeld said in Bali before the fund’s annual meetings.
Why did the Rupee depreciate? Please explain, also Please explain who left the country bankrupt? Under what govt did the exports go down from $34bn to $24bn, under whose Govt did we have no Foreign reserves left and whose govt did its Finance Minister do a runner?
 
Mamoon said:
What sort of logic is this? It is the largest welfare support program in the country and was established by PPP in 2008.

What purpose would changing its name serve? This is nothing but pettiness on Imran’s part because he cannot digest someone else’s name associated with something good.

However, it appears that he has taken his customary U-turn because this proposal has rightfully received widespread criticism from all quarters including PTI supporters.
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Largest welfare started by the party with the head who is the most prominent looter of Pakistan :zardari2

One can only laugh at that statement.
 
Bewal Express said:
“Pakistan is suffering from a number of imbalances -- they also have a low level of reserves and a currency that is too rigid and overvalued,” IMF Chief Economist Maurice Obstfeld said in Bali before the fund’s annual meetings.
Why did the Rupee depreciate? Please explain, also Please explain who left the country bankrupt? Under what govt did the exports go down from $34bn to $24bn, under whose Govt did we have no Foreign reserves left and whose govt did its Finance Minister do a runner?
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BTW this quote is straight after IK took power, this is the Noora legacy of theft and plunder.
 
Kriketer said:
Largest welfare started by the party with the head who is the most prominent looter of Pakistan :zardari2

One can only laugh at that statement.
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He likes these people, they are his kind of people. You will never hear a bad word for these crooks because apparently corruption is not an issue and stealing is normal.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">تبدیلی والے تبدیل ہو رہے ہیں۔۔۔ <a href="https://t.co/USY5QDIQ9N">https://t.co/USY5QDIQ9N</a></p>— Sana Bucha (@sanabucha) <a href="https://twitter.com/sanabucha/status/1113015434398371841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 2, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Bewal Express said:
He likes these people, they are his kind of people. You will never hear a bad word for these crooks because apparently corruption is not an issue and stealing is normal.
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You will keep sharing IMF head statement but you will ignore the World Bank's rating of BISP.

PTI's supporters, like their leaders, see everything in black and white. This is another example. Bhai, why can't you accept the good things from the other parties.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
You will keep sharing IMF head statement but you will ignore the World Bank's rating of BISP.

PTI's supporters, like their leaders, see everything in black and white. This is another example. Bhai, why can't you accept the good things from the other parties.
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BISP may be a good idea but why should be it named after any politician unless the thieving family will pay for it. It comes from Taxpayers money and unless AZ and Billo want to pay for it, it should be called Income Support
 
Bewal Express said:
BISP may be a good idea but why should be it named after any politician unless the thieving family will pay for it. It comes from Taxpayers money and unless AZ and Billo want to pay for it, it should be called Income Support
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We live in a 3rd world country so such things do happen for political mileage. It is not a big deal to be honest, there are bigger issues than it. You have very strict yardstick for other parties but you are lenient with PTI although it is PTI who made tall claims and not other parties so, in my opinion, it should have been different but maybe discussion for other time.

Naming something after a noteable personality posthumously is still not a strange thing. Happens everywhere. You may differ but BB was respected leader in the whole world.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
We live in a 3rd world country so such things do happen for political mileage. It is not a big deal to be honest, there are bigger issues than it. You have very strict yardstick for other parties but you are lenient with PTI although it is PTI who made tall claims and not other parties so, in my opinion, it should have been different but maybe discussion for other time.

Naming something after a noteable personality posthumously is still not a strange thing. Happens everywhere. You may differ but BB was respected leader in the whole world.
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I know it got deleted but I am harsh with all crooks. I would like to see special courts created for all public officials and use the Chinese model of hanging thieves. The PTI will have crooks and shirkers, it would be a miracle if it didn't because that's the culture they have brought up in. I have trust in IK not to steal like NS and AZ. If he does then he also needs to be humiliated.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
We live in a 3rd world country so such things do happen for political mileage. It is not a big deal to be honest, there are bigger issues than it. You have very strict yardstick for other parties but you are lenient with PTI although it is PTI who made tall claims and not other parties so, in my opinion, it should have been different but maybe discussion for other time.

Naming something after a noteable personality posthumously is still not a strange thing. Happens everywhere. You may differ but BB was respected leader in the whole world.
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BB was not respected after her 2 terms. She was before she became greedy and decided that money was the most important thing. She had the chance to change the country for the better, instead she chose money.
 
Bewal Express said:
BB was not respected after her 2 terms. She was before she became greedy and decided that money was the most important thing. She had the chance to change the country for the better, instead she chose money.
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You have all the rights to have a different opinion but as far as I know, the neutrals have a high regard for BB.
 
Everyone talk about pti incompetence regarding BRTS peshawar but why nobody talk about Nawaz Sharif's green line project Karachi. It was started in Feb 16 & bound to finish in a year & after passing more than 3 years 30% work is still need to be done. Mashallah the talented & capable PMLN has shown all its skills in this project or may be their skills are only for five rivers land.

Even media's all cry are over BRTS just to target PTI & no body care what biased ganja has done on the name of greenline Karachi.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
We live in a 3rd world country so such things do happen for political mileage. It is not a big deal to be honest, there are bigger issues than it. You have very strict yardstick for other parties but you are lenient with PTI although it is PTI who made tall claims and not other parties so, in my opinion, it should have been different but maybe discussion for other time.

Naming something after a noteable personality posthumously is still not a strange thing. Happens everywhere. You may differ but BB was respected leader in the whole world.
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Please tell me at least one thing what bb had done and from which people are still benefiting.

BISP is the dacoity of tax payers money. It is a legal way to purchase votes. Most funny part is that shameless leaders of ppp have spread folk tale that the BISP money is BBs money which she left for the poor peoples of sindh :facepalm:

And yes the biggest beneficiary of BISP is now living in America Frazana Raja.
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
You have all the rights to have a different opinion but as far as I know, the neutrals have a high regard for BB.
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Please read this. Just before the NRO, BB was implicated in the Iraqi Oil for food program Condi Rice actually had to intervene with the Spanish Gov as a judge had charged BB's company for paying bribes to get Iraqi Oil for Food contracts pre Iraqi Freedom.

Trail of corruption and kickback charges still in wings for opposition leader
David Pallister

Mon 12 Nov 2007 04.28 EST First published on Mon 12 Nov 2007 04.28 EST

Hopes for a third term for Benazir Bhutto, twice kicked out of government for corruption and incompetence, have been thrown into turmoil by the emergency rule. But her ambitions ultimately still depend on whether the amnesty on her corruption charges, granted to her last month by the national reconciliation ordinance, will be upheld in the new supreme court.
Bhutto and her husband, Asif Ali Zardari - nicknamed Mr 10% over alleged extortion - faced eight counts of taking tens of millions of dollars in illegal kickbacks. But whatever decision the court arrives at, the couple also have to contend with money laundering proceedings in Switzerland and Spain, and a civil case in London involving an expensive Surrey mansion.

As the president's ordinance only deals with offences up to 1999, investigations in Pakistan could continue into allegations that the pair paid about $2m in illegal kickbacks to Saddam Hussein under the oil-for-food programme.


The controversy surrounding Bhutto's financial affairs has been compounded by reports showing she and her family have worldwide assets worth about 90bn Pakistan rupees ($1.5bn). Despite voluminous evidence, some from the British government, the Bhuttos deny all the charges.

The charges

Among the charges in Pakistan are allegations that the Bhuttos skimmed $2m in commissions from a 1990s deal to buy thousands of duty-free Ursus tractors from Poland. The money went into a Swiss bank account. Christine Junod, a Geneva magistrate, says documentary evidence "establishes beyond doubt that these commissions, under the cover of alleged consultancy fees, were meant to remunerate the illicit advantages obtained by Ursus from the Pakistani administration, thanks to the interventions of Asif Zardari".

A second case involves a Dubai-based Pakistani gold bullion dealer who allegedly paid $10m to a Bhutto company in the British Virgin Islands for the exclusive right to import gold, again losing the country millions of dollar in duties. Zardari, who has served six years on corruption charges, is also accused of evading duties on the import of a £55,000 armoured BMW.

A fourth case, involving Swiss banks, is moving towards a trial in Geneva. In this the couple are accused of taking kickbacks for the award of contracts to two Swiss firms employed to stop customs fraud. In 2003 a Swiss magistrate found the couple guilty, sentenced them to six months in prison and ordered them to pay $12m back to the Pakistan government.

The paper trail connecting Benazir Bhutto to the case started with a moment of extravagance. Five years before, she had bought a £117,000 diamond necklace in London; part of that was paid for by one of the Swiss firms identified in the investigation. Lawyers for the Bhuttos challenged the judgment, a move that required the case be reopened. Last month the Swiss authorities said they would go ahead.

Oil-for-food scandal

The authoritative Volker report into the oil-for-food scandal identified the company Petroline FZC as having received oil contracts worth £145m in return for paying illicit surcharges to Iraq of $2m. Pakistan's national accountability bureau has produced documents which show that Bhutto was the company chairwoman. Some of the profits went to firms in Spain, where another criminal investigation into money laundering is still active.

Rockwood House

The Surrey mansion, Rockwood House, was bought in 1995, apparently owned through a chain of firms and trusts, involving addresses in the Isle of Man, Jersey and Liechtenstein. Zardari denied, for eight years, that he was the owner despite instructing a builder with plans for a helipad, nine-hole golf course and polo pony paddock. Crates of valuable artefacts were shipped from Karachi. In 2004, when creditors forced the property into a liquidation sale, the Pakistani government claimed the proceeds. Lawyers for Zardari then appeared, claiming he was the beneficial owner.

The money from the sale is still in the liquidators' bank account, though a high court judge said the Pakistani government had a reasonable case, stating the money came via corruption. The case continues through the courts with Zardari repeatedly claiming to be too ill to mount a rebuttal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/12/pakistan.benazirbhutto
 
Last edited:
cric_man said:
Please read this. Just before the NRO, BB was implicated in the Iraqi Oil for food program Condi Rice actually had to intervene with the Spanish Gov as a judge had charged BB's company for paying bribes to get Iraqi Oil for Food contracts pre Iraqi Freedom.

Trail of corruption and kickback charges still in wings for opposition leader
David Pallister

Mon 12 Nov 2007 04.28 EST First published on Mon 12 Nov 2007 04.28 EST

Hopes for a third term for Benazir Bhutto, twice kicked out of government for corruption and incompetence, have been thrown into turmoil by the emergency rule. But her ambitions ultimately still depend on whether the amnesty on her corruption charges, granted to her last month by the national reconciliation ordinance, will be upheld in the new supreme court.
Bhutto and her husband, Asif Ali Zardari - nicknamed Mr 10% over alleged extortion - faced eight counts of taking tens of millions of dollars in illegal kickbacks. But whatever decision the court arrives at, the couple also have to contend with money laundering proceedings in Switzerland and Spain, and a civil case in London involving an expensive Surrey mansion.

As the president's ordinance only deals with offences up to 1999, investigations in Pakistan could continue into allegations that the pair paid about $2m in illegal kickbacks to Saddam Hussein under the oil-for-food programme.


The controversy surrounding Bhutto's financial affairs has been compounded by reports showing she and her family have worldwide assets worth about 90bn Pakistan rupees ($1.5bn). Despite voluminous evidence, some from the British government, the Bhuttos deny all the charges.

The charges

Among the charges in Pakistan are allegations that the Bhuttos skimmed $2m in commissions from a 1990s deal to buy thousands of duty-free Ursus tractors from Poland. The money went into a Swiss bank account. Christine Junod, a Geneva magistrate, says documentary evidence "establishes beyond doubt that these commissions, under the cover of alleged consultancy fees, were meant to remunerate the illicit advantages obtained by Ursus from the Pakistani administration, thanks to the interventions of Asif Zardari".

A second case involves a Dubai-based Pakistani gold bullion dealer who allegedly paid $10m to a Bhutto company in the British Virgin Islands for the exclusive right to import gold, again losing the country millions of dollar in duties. Zardari, who has served six years on corruption charges, is also accused of evading duties on the import of a £55,000 armoured BMW.

A fourth case, involving Swiss banks, is moving towards a trial in Geneva. In this the couple are accused of taking kickbacks for the award of contracts to two Swiss firms employed to stop customs fraud. In 2003 a Swiss magistrate found the couple guilty, sentenced them to six months in prison and ordered them to pay $12m back to the Pakistan government.

The paper trail connecting Benazir Bhutto to the case started with a moment of extravagance. Five years before, she had bought a £117,000 diamond necklace in London; part of that was paid for by one of the Swiss firms identified in the investigation. Lawyers for the Bhuttos challenged the judgment, a move that required the case be reopened. Last month the Swiss authorities said they would go ahead.

Oil-for-food scandal

The authoritative Volker report into the oil-for-food scandal identified the company Petroline FZC as having received oil contracts worth £145m in return for paying illicit surcharges to Iraq of $2m. Pakistan's national accountability bureau has produced documents which show that Bhutto was the company chairwoman. Some of the profits went to firms in Spain, where another criminal investigation into money laundering is still active.

Rockwood House

The Surrey mansion, Rockwood House, was bought in 1995, apparently owned through a chain of firms and trusts, involving addresses in the Isle of Man, Jersey and Liechtenstein. Zardari denied, for eight years, that he was the owner despite instructing a builder with plans for a helipad, nine-hole golf course and polo pony paddock. Crates of valuable artefacts were shipped from Karachi. In 2004, when creditors forced the property into a liquidation sale, the Pakistani government claimed the proceeds. Lawyers for Zardari then appeared, claiming he was the beneficial owner.

The money from the sale is still in the liquidators' bank account, though a high court judge said the Pakistani government had a reasonable case, stating the money came via corruption. The case continues through the courts with Zardari repeatedly claiming to be too ill to mount a rebuttal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/12/pakistan.benazirbhutto
Click to expand...

You won't see our friend for dust as he knew how crooked the family is. Also [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], do you want these guys back?
 
Bewal Express said:
You won't see our friend for dust as he knew how crooked the family is. Also [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], do you want these guys back?
Click to expand...

This is just the instances where the pak saaf BB was directly implicated. Multiply by 1000 was Zardarai was doing on the sides. And this pales in comparison what Zardari did after 2008.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], so you got excited on possible Corruption in BRT but not a sqeak on the billions here. I wonder why?
 
Mamoon said:
Anyway, we should not be worried - once the fake degree holder Murad Saeed comes back with his "200 arab dollars", Naya Pakistan will fulfil its vision of establishing a Madinah welfare state with free education, healthcare and heavily subsidised petrol, gas and electricity to improve the living standards of the poor.

They are suffering in Mehenga Pakistan now, but they should take heart from the fact that once the incompetence and corruption of PMLN and PPP are reversed, angels will descend from the heaven and this country will fulfil its destiny of becoming a superpower.

In all seriousness, this government has no vision. They are simply shooting in the dark and every poor decision is conveniently blamed on the previous governments. The bad news is that this farce will end one day because people are already losing patience and understand that they have no idea what they doing.

This of course doesn't include the cult members who will defend and justify everything.
Click to expand...


423,267,000,000.00 United States Dollars


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">پاکستان کا ساٹھ ہزار ارب روپیہ واپس آئے گا۔ <br>ایک نہیں، دس نہیں، سو نہیں، ہزار نہیں <br>ساٹھ ہزار۰۰۰۰ <a href="https://t.co/e8aJtiX2Zo">pic.twitter.com/e8aJtiX2Zo</a></p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/1114225214181847042?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 5, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
423,267,000,000.00 United States Dollars


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">پاکستان کا ساٹھ ہزار ارب روپیہ واپس آئے گا۔ <br>ایک نہیں، دس نہیں، سو نہیں، ہزار نہیں <br>ساٹھ ہزار۰۰۰۰ <a href="https://t.co/e8aJtiX2Zo">pic.twitter.com/e8aJtiX2Zo</a></p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/1114225214181847042?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 5, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Didn't Munshi Dar mention $200bn.
ISLAMABAD: Finance Minister Ishaq Dar staggered the National Assembly on Friday when he revealed that at least $200 billion of ‘Pakistani money’ was stashed away in Swiss banks.

"In a written reply, Dar told the house that the government was engaging with Swiss authorities to get to the money, hidden away by various Pakistani nationals".
 
PTI already achieved more in 8 months that was achieved in last 10 years of corrupt governments.



Only people who benefit from corruption are against them.
 
Looks like things are going from bad to worse. Even Mubashir Luqman is critizing the current govt. now. Wow, how quickly the façade of "Naya Pakistan" has cracked and ineptness and complete incompetence of PTI is all out in the open to see. Don't expect cult followers to change their tune though. They will keep harping about Nawaz and Zardari, pointing fingers, playing the blame game. Can't really fault them as that's what they have learned from their leader and party.
 
It depends on your expectations and your understanding of economics
 
saadibaba said:
Looks like things are going from bad to worse. Even Mubashir Luqman is critizing the current govt. now. Wow, how quickly the façade of "Naya Pakistan" has cracked and ineptness and complete incompetence of PTI is all out in the open to see. Don't expect cult followers to change their tune though. They will keep harping about Nawaz and Zardari, pointing fingers, playing the blame game. Can't really fault them as that's what they have learned from their leader and party.
Click to expand...

People who expected quick fix solutions are to blame. No govt has the magic wand to turn this economic mess around quickly, Imran Khan from the very beginning mentioned that the country would have to bear with tough times early on as the govt took some very hard but necessary measures to restructure the economy and if that means putting his political capital at risk then so be it. We would not have been in this mess today if the previous govts did the same
 
Savak said:
People who expected quick fix solutions are to blame. No govt has the magic wand to turn this economic mess around quickly, Imran Khan from the very beginning mentioned that the country would have to bear with tough times early on as the govt took some very hard but necessary measures to restructure the economy and if that means putting his political capital at risk then so be it. We would not have been in this mess today if the previous govts did the same
Click to expand...

But why did the mess started right after PTI took over. Things seems to be going so so during the Nawaz govt. nothing to brag about but nothing close to how bad it is now.
 
Pete Rose said:
It depends on your expectations and your understanding of economics
Click to expand...

I personally had zero expectations but I know a lot of people in Pakistan who had higher expectations, mainly because of all the tall claims PTI made before elections.
 
saadibaba said:
But why did the mess started right after PTI took over. Things seems to be going so so during the Nawaz govt. nothing to brag about but nothing close to how bad it is now.
Click to expand...

The gap between imports and exports widened significantly during NS time when he should have benefited from lower oil prices.

The PTI is now forcing the nation to live within its means and try to reduce the import bill drastically while simultaneously increasing exports which is no easy task because the exports depend on the imports
 
saadibaba said:
I personally had zero expectations but I know a lot of people in Pakistan who had higher expectations, mainly because of all the tall claims PTI made before elections.
Click to expand...

Considering Pakistani democracy is a managed affair and campaigning is different from governing, I don’t care about the tears of the disappointed. I care about continuity of policy. I think military folks realize the pie is shrinking so they want to contribute to reversing that. So I am all for an illiberal presidential system that shuts out an opposition that will not provide continuity to the economic policies that are being implanted now.
 
saadibaba said:
But why did the mess started right after PTI took over. Things seems to be going so so during the Nawaz govt. nothing to brag about but nothing close to how bad it is now.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Things had truly hit the fan during the interim set up when the bills of living large started becoming due. Our idiot lefty journalists were drooling over the elections and didnt pay attention
 
Pete Rose said:
This is not true. Things had truly hit the fan during the interim set up when the bills of living large started becoming due. Our idiot lefty journalists were drooling over the elections and didnt pay attention
Click to expand...

Just wanted to clarify, did the esteemed righty journalist paid any attention to this during the interim setup.
 
Pete Rose said:
Considering Pakistani democracy is a managed affair and campaigning is different from governing, I don’t care about the tears of the disappointed. I care about continuity of policy. I think military folks realize the pie is shrinking so they want to contribute to reversing that. So I am all for an illiberal presidential system that shuts out an opposition that will not provide continuity to the economic policies that are being implanted now.
Click to expand...

I see, you want Mushy 2.0. IK is your guy then, good luck!
 
saadibaba said:
I see, you want Mushy 2.0. IK is your guy then, good luck!
Click to expand...

It’s not about the individual it’s about the system. It can be ik or whoever.
Reason why mushy did not succeed is because he wasn’t dealing with dire economic situation that you have now, so he had no pressure to change. Pakistan’s GDP to debt ratio was under 50% which is perfectly respectable for growing economies. So because he had no pressure for economic reform, he had too many of his idiots wasting away international goodwill pulling stunts line proliferating nuclear tech. He gave up bin laden so the US won’t harass him. But by the end of his time, with Taliban insurgents used Pakistan as a base to attack Afghanis, the international community lost patience with him. So he had to offer up the NRO and then eat manure when Benazir took the NRO and did not hold up her end of the bargain and showed up in Pakistan.
The situation now is good and very bad.
We have lost most of our sovereignty because our economy is a shambles based on largely on ppp and pml
So we have to do the bidding of the world wants us to do.
This is not the time for professional politicians to protest. Ban them all if they get in the way of fixing the economy
 
BJP and PTI are so similar in so many ways.

- They both keep on blaming previous political parties.
- They have both incompetent ministers.
- They have both failed to achieve any economic goals (too early to say for PTI though)
- They both have leaders that have popular support and extremist supporters.
 
Pete Rose said:
It’s not about the individual it’s about the system. It can be ik or whoever.
Reason why mushy did not succeed is because he wasn’t dealing with dire economic situation that you have now, so he had no pressure to change. Pakistan’s GDP to debt ratio was under 50% which is perfectly respectable for growing economies. So because he had no pressure for economic reform, he had too many of his idiots wasting away international goodwill pulling stunts line proliferating nuclear tech. He gave up bin laden so the US won’t harass him. But by the end of his time, with Taliban insurgents used Pakistan as a base to attack Afghanis, the international community lost patience with him. So he had to offer up the NRO and then eat manure when Benazir took the NRO and did not hold up her end of the bargain and showed up in Pakistan.
The situation now is good and very bad.
We have lost most of our sovereignty because our economy is a shambles based on largely on ppp and pml
So we have to do the bidding of the world wants us to do.
This is not the time for professional politicians to protest. Ban them all if they get in the way of fixing the economy
Click to expand...



This wasn’t his business. Period.
 
Pete Rose said:
Again, who the individual is shouldn’t matter. Ten years of democratic rule, by people whose business is running the country, has basically bankrupted us.
Click to expand...

10 years in which debt has trebled to unmanageable levels because of looting on a grand scale. These are not democrats these are criminals.
 
Pete Rose said:
Again, who the individual is shouldn’t matter. Ten years of democratic rule, by people whose business is running the country, has basically bankrupted us.
Click to expand...

Mush was a dictator and he had no business ruling but I will take Mush any day of the week over democratic Nawaz and Zardari. Also what type of "democracy" is this that the party can only be given to your offspring or relative/husband. Heck the Pak Army is hundred times more democratic than these political parties. Only the top officers in the army make it to General level and then the most competent of those is picked as COAS.


Also these folks keep forgetting that Mush left an economy that was growing at 7-9% with minimal current account deficits, trade deficit and excellent numbers for FDI. Then "democracy" came and as we know "democracy is the best revenge".
 
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