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Is Saud Shakeel a reliable middle-order batter for Pakistan in the World Cup after his innings in the warm-up game against New Zealand?

Looks class.
Good strike rotation, good player of spin.
Unclear about his ability against faster bowlers but time will tell.
Great timer of the ball and has some nice innovative shots.
Keep in mind NZ didn't bowl much of their key bowlers.
Lets see how he does in pressure situations and in front of a packed stadium.

Our middle order is shaping up nicely though:

Rizwan
Saud Shakeel
Iftimania
 
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Yes, Saud should definitely be playing. Doesn't he bowl as well?

1) Imam
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Rizwan
5) Saud
6) Iftikhar/Agha
7) Shadab
 
YousafTheBeast said:
If Rizwan can open we could play Saud, Agha and Ifthikar in the middle.
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A bit too late to try that out. Maybe if Fakhar and Abdullah keep failing but it might cause a lot of disruption in the team.
 
Yes I think he should be in the side.

I think he brings more to the XI than Nawaz does.

It will a bit of a gamble to leave the 5th bowler duties to Agha and Iftikhar but Nawaz is useless anyway.
 
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Always believed in him and now others are too.

Their are many similar players to Saud in our domestics however you wont see them getting a chance anytime soon.
 
He’s been very good from U19 days if anyone’s been following our cricket.

In fact he’s 10x better than Imam and they were all peers as far as I can recall.

However for unknown reasons Imam, who is a much inferior batsman, kept getting selected.

Saud is the person who Pak should have selected and backed all these years but we always bet on the wrong horse and went with a toothless stat padder IMAM ul Haq.

Now does it mean Saud Shakeel will come in and start scoring 50s and 100s from the start?

No.

It won’t happen, very unlikely.

But when a batter has potential you back him and support him despite initial failures. Only then the real talent comes out.

At least Saud has more fluent batting, more shots, not limited like Imam is in his stroke play. Yes he’s no Warner or Butler but we can only select what is available to us.
 
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Hawkeye said:
He’s been very good from U19 days if anyone’s been following our cricket.

In fact he’s 10x better than Imam and they were all peers as far as I can recall.

However for unknown reasons Imam, who is a much inferior batsman, kept getting selected.

Saud is the person who Pak should have selected and backed all these years but we always bet on the wrong horse and went with a toothless stat padder IMAM ul Haq.

Now does it mean Saud Shakeel will come in and start scoring 50s and 100s from the start?

No.

It won’t happen, very unlikely.

But when a batter has potential you back him and support him despite initial failures. Only then the real talent comes out.

Kick out Imam and bring in Saud.

At least Saud has more fluent batting, more shots, not limited like Imam is in his stroke play. Yes he’s no Warner or Butler but we can only select what is available to us.
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Unknown reason :inzi2
 
hitthestump said:
@mominsaigol correctly identified Saud Shakeel’s talent being able to translate from tests to ODI’s.

I was skeptical but I stand corrected after his innings today. I didn’t think he had a six in him which was my biggest worry. But today he proved that wrong.
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Thank you mate, it means alot. I felt like many players in this forumn weren't understanding my viewpoint.

I kept telling people, good technique players can play in any format. Theirs a reason someone like imam is booted out of t20.
 
hitthestump said:
@mominsaigol correctly identified Saud Shakeel’s talent being able to translate from tests to ODI’s.

I was skeptical but I stand corrected after his innings today. I didn’t think he had a six in him which was my biggest worry. But today he proved that wrong.
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He always had the ability to hit a 6. He just doesn't need to in test and doesn't bother playing a lofted strokes in test much. In his list A games he plays lofted strokes though.

A player not wanting to hit a 6 in one format doesn't mean he can't hit a 6 lol.
 
Saud the version we have seen isn't the version we saw as a 4 hitter at the earlier stage of his career. He was prone to soft dismissals and that held him back. Let's hope he gives our middle order another reliable batsman
 
Yes, he is. For me, he is a far better option than Agha Salman at number 5. He should have played all the matches of the Asia Cup. Unfortunately, he didn't get a place in the playing XI in the first few matches and then he was unwell.
 
Poor guy playing without a bat sponsor!

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He deserves to be at #5 on skill alone. A guy like Agha is not at that level with the bat.
 
Saud has to play whole World Cup.
Agha Vs Ifti Mania where Ifti is better and only change if he fails 2-3 matches consecutively.
Fakhar vs Abdullah ( if pitches are going to be flat then play Fakhar as technique is over rated in those conditions

Hasan Ali Vs Wasim Jnr ( Wasim Jnr even worse than Hasan Ali. Whoever plays will be weak link.

Last person to sit would be Usama because we should not play 2 leg spinners together it is a recipe for disaster. One possibility though would be to not play Hasan and Wasim and play Usama. 2 seamers and all other spinners.
 
There is some weird mythical separation between so-called “accumulators” and “aggressors”. In reality, none exists.
There are just different gears of accumulations. The better basic technique one has, the more gears they have have/or can add, because big shots are extensions of defense. This is not only true for batting, this is true for many sports like tennis, badminton etc
Players like Saud Shakeel are being wasted due to nonsensical thought processes
 
Why are people pushing him so down the order?

He’s not a low order batter.

Imam has to be kicked out and Saud has to come in.
 
Played a class innings in that warm up match. Im putting him into the team straight away, he can also bowl.
 
Hate New Zealand for not bowling Boult and Southee. And not giving a spell to Matt Henry when Saud came in.
And hate the curators for preparing Pindi ×2

Now Saud who is the second coming of Azhar Ali will get to play World Cup matches and not do anything. I am getting more hopeless everyday regarding our chances in this WC
 
saqib.rai said:
Hate New Zealand for not bowling Boult and Southee. And not giving a spell to Matt Henry when Saud came in.
And hate the curators for preparing Pindi ×2

Now Saud who is the second coming of Azhar Ali will get to play World Cup matches and not do anything. I am getting more hopeless everyday regarding our chances in this WC
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Southee has a thumb fracture and I believe he will miss first few matches
 
From what we saw yesterday, he should definitely be playing over Agha Salman.

The warm-up against Australia will make things clearer, but I think Usama Mir and Saud Shakeel have played themselves into the starting XI for now.
 
Farabi said:
There is some weird mythical separation between so-called “accumulators” and “aggressors”. In reality, none exists.
There are just different gears of accumulations. The better basic technique one has, the more gears they have have/or can add, because big shots are extensions of defense. This is not only true for batting, this is true for many sports like tennis, badminton etc
Players like Saud Shakeel are being wasted due to nonsensical thought processes
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U've been saying it all along bro and I've pushed 'Like' on almost all of those posts 😁
 
On Indian pitches, this lad could be the go-to player in the middle-order.

He could be more reliable than a number of the other batters in the Pakistan line-up.

Don't be surprised if he outscores many of his rivals in the Pakistan middle-order.
 
What is the leading theory currently for why Saud didn’t feature in the warm up today
 
He's the only batsmen pakistan has 😂😂. Everyone else besides babar is non existent.

Management is braindead.

Tayyab should have been our no 5, saud our no 4, chacha is fine at 6 and Haris the wicket keeper at no 7 as a finisher. And we needed sain ayub to open.

When will pcb understand that you need a genuine middle order batsmen to play middle order, genuine openers at opening.

Pakistan will collapse 90% of the time if we keep playing agha, Shadab and Nawaz in the lower middle order. Besides chacha, These 3 aren't batsmen, their pretenders pretending to be allrounders when in reality their medicore bowlers who can't justify a place in the team so they put up the batting drama.

Same with Imam, he's a test player pretending to be a dynamic opener.
 
He has to sit out because Rizwan wants to bat at 4. His ideal batting position is no.4. I also can not understand Babar's obsession with Salman Agha.
 
He's at worst the third-best batsman in the side.

It would be bizarre if they don't play him but crazier things have happened.
 
BouncerGuy said:
This should happen. At least in the first 2 matches, Saud should play no matter what.
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I am not disagreeing. I am asking what signals to you that it will happen. Maybe Babar gonna “back” Agha because Agha has more “experience” in ODIs and he may be another one of Babar’s match winner and buddy. They are both from Lahore so more in common?
 
Babar should not play this friendship game if he is playing it. I don't wanna see any good player to be benched just to fit in a friend. If this friendship case is there then I am not supporting Babar here. Saud needs to play and he should be there.
 
Farabi said:
What gives you confidence this is gonna happen
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Agha bombed spectacularly in both the games he played.

He was given a chance to keep his place in the team against Australia’s part-timers, and he still couldn’t perform.
 
Class player

The kind of player that still makes me feel Pakistan can produce high quality talent
 
A regular batsman should play at the No. 4 and 5 positions, period. While Rizwan may score tons of runs at No. 4, one cannot overlook the fact that against top teams and in tense situations, we need a reliable batsman like Saud Shakeel. He could be a promising prospect for Pakistan's middle-order issues.
 
Needs to play over Agha no doubt about that. Will add a lot of depth to the batting.
 
Rana said:
Class player

The kind of player that still makes me feel Pakistan can produce high quality talent
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Pakistan have had plenty of talents during the years

Sami aslam, Saud shakeel currently, Haris sohail, Umar akmal, Saim ayub. We just never developed these players to their full potential due to nepotism.

Having Umar bat at 6 for years rather then his og position at 3 and having him constantly compared to kohli, and setting zero fitness standards for him, just like we set 0 fitness standards for azam Khan doesn't exactly do wonders for a player. If I was Umar it would he disheartening to be booted from no 3 just because misbah loves Asad shafiq to hog that spot.

Same with sami aslam, was 100x superior to ahmed shehzad in 2014 but misbah booted him out, he became a hasbeen in 2016 and since then he wasn't the same due to babar's success and he himself developing the im disposable attitude so goodbye Pakistan.

We're doing the same with saim ayub by batting him at no 4 in t20 and just dropping him here and their sometimes selecting him, sometimes not, by years down the line posters will be saying nonsense such as

Sami was never talented to begin with, horrible player, when it's clear the truth is he was ruined to favor talentless and selfish players such as rizzu. Same way asad shafiq was favored over Umar and same way ahmed shehzad was favoured over sami.

For all this drama, these lads do have a point, when you look at how India cultivates former failures like rohit at middle order and Rahul at opening to all time success stories by just trusting them and giving them ideal positions and compared to how Pakistan destroys talent its no wonder India is world class team while we are deluding ourselves to be.

Fakhar is in the same boat btw, the inconsistency drama originated when he was booted to no 3 in t20. He wasn't inconsistent otherwise, he failed here and their and came good, that no 3 slot in t20 meant a long long long poor form that reflected in an entire format.
 
mominsaigol said:
Pakistan have had plenty of talents during the years

Sami aslam, Saud shakeel currently, Haris sohail, Umar akmal, Saim ayub. We just never developed these players to their full potential due to nepotism.

Having Umar bat at 6 for years rather then his og position at 3 and having him constantly compared to kohli, and setting zero fitness standards for him, just like we set 0 fitness standards for azam Khan doesn't exactly do wonders for a player. If I was Umar it would he disheartening to be booted from no 3 just because misbah loves Asad shafiq to hog that spot.

Same with sami aslam, was 100x superior to ahmed shehzad in 2014 but misbah booted him out, he became a hasbeen in 2016 and since then he wasn't the same due to babar's success and he himself developing the im disposable attitude so goodbye Pakistan.

We're doing the same with saim ayub by batting him at no 4 in t20 and just dropping him here and their sometimes selecting him, sometimes not, by years down the line posters will be saying nonsense such as

Sami was never talented to begin with, horrible player, when it's clear the truth is he was ruined to favor talentless and selfish players such as rizzu. Same way asad shafiq was favored over Umar and same way ahmed shehzad was favoured over sami.

For all this drama, these lads do have a point, when you look at how India cultivates former failures like rohit at middle order and Rahul at opening to all time success stories by just trusting them and giving them ideal positions and compared to how Pakistan destroys talent its no wonder India is world class team while we are deluding ourselves to be.

Fakhar is in the same boat btw, the inconsistency drama originated when he was booted to no 3 in t20. He wasn't inconsistent otherwise, he failed here and their and came good, that no 3 slot in t20 meant a long long long poor form that reflected in an entire format.
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Agree with most except Umar.

Guy was never talented at all.

Was a hack.

Unfortunate that you feel he was the real deal.

No one messed with Umar.

He was just not good enough.
 
Saud is a similar kind of player to Haris. He can fill the void at 4 that Haris failed to do. Upto the management to use his potential or waste him like we have done with countless other batsmen.
 
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Syed1 said:
PP old timers would remember how most of PP used to dream of Babar/Haris Sohail partnership in the middle order but that rarely happened because of Haris's mental issues and also the fact that he would injure himself just by stepping on grass.


Saud is a similar kind of player to Haris. He can fill the void at 4 that Haris failed to do. Upto the management to use his potential or waste him like we have done with countless other batsmen.
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Yep tbh 2019 WC v NZ was a glimpse of what was possible for us with those 2.
 
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Saud Shakeel is a classy batter, unfortunately with Imam, Babar & Rizwan ahead of him, Saud is in a difficult position. He needs to play & maintain a strong & high SR. He is more of a stroke player as a opposed to a hitter.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Agree with most except Umar.

Guy was never talented at all.

Was a hack.

Unfortunate that you feel he was the real deal.

No one messed with Umar.

He was just not good enough.
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Let me try to clarify in another way.

Your point on umar is fair and noted, but the problem with Pakistani fans is that just how Former players of the past are praised to epic folklore level praise, such as saeed Anwar being praised as the 2nd coming of Jesus when in reality players like gilchrist were superior and Anwar was poor in SENA conditions averaging only 22 (but people ignore that)

The same can be said for players who didn't live upto the mark. I read old posts on pakpassion dating till 2013-2015. People were praising shehzad, Umar akmal and jamshed like theirs no tmr, but years later now its their garbo players. Same is gonna happen with rizwan soon enough.

The truth is, whether a player will live up to the mark or not is unknown in Pakistan cricket. In India we'd all be saying Rahul and rohit are garbo players but as soon as their talented was cultivated now its, oh their legends and goats.

Talent isn't built in a day, it's developed over time, Babar is lucky that when he arrived in the scene, he was dealing with Zimbabwe and West indies level bowlers, he wasn't the player he is now, he sucked at taking singles, hitting sixes and 4's and was unsteady at the crease and wasn't too great at the backfoot either.

Now he's obviously a good player and ironed all those issues out, but he was terrible and would have been exposed if he made his debut against top quality teams.

Talent takes time to cultivate. Secondly the problem with Pakistan is the whole out of position nonsense and unfair selection criteria and not giving players the run they deserve while others get given due to obvious bias like Imam.

Umar akmal was performing well in 2009 at the no 3 slot, but he got booted out as soon as misbah came onto the scene who shoved him for years at no 6. He became a hasbeen because of the whole you're garbo, You're a hack, you're ain't anywhere near kohli and Umar developed that Crybaby twitter mentality, the same mentality sami aslam developed.

Sami aslam: Is he superior to current babar? No, he however was 100x superior to 2014 babar when they both played, but one got unfairly booted out to accommodate ahmed shehzad, and he kept being brought here and their, he too turned into a hasbeen and just left cricket altogether.

Someone like imam can have 100 poor games and it's all golden, with sami, one bad series and rather then management working out issues like how Indian management did to rohit and Rahul, its allah hafiz, Tayyab and saim ayub are being the same treatment, so is saud.

If you don't wanna read this long para, and want to skip to the end, basically what I'm saying is, it took time for babar to get to where he is, could Umar have been a great? Or was he always a hack? We will never know because he didn't get a long rope like asad shafiq or shehzad did, we can defo claim they suck, but for Umar we truly will never know.

What I'm trying to say is, In conclusion

1) Talent takes time, rohit, Babar, these guys took time to get to where they are, Sami would have reached and surpassed babar had he given the fair treatment lol, given how he was already > Babar when they played together in the same circuit.

2) You gotta play people in their positions, Saud enjoys the top order and playing spin, So why is he being forced to play I'm a hitting position? Statistically speaking in the history of the game no 4 plays the most spin, so why is saud not at 4? When past records show spin is something he loves? Same with saim ayub, he clearly loves playing at opening and bashing with freedom, so why is he being forced to play at 4? In a position which is alien to him and a vital position which requires to play according to the situation and not pure freedom which he loves to play, that's how you ruin a player.

3) Why is the selection criteria unfair? Why can sami aslam, Tayyab tahir just be dropped for either one bad series and not be given a fair extended rope of atleast 20 games before deciding, but why can shadab, asad shafiq shezad, nawaz be given 60+ games and for them performing 1 in every 50 games is enough to justify selection?

That's the whole issue, these 3 things I pointed, it don't exist in ECB, Australia or India, Not even In New Zealand or South Africa for that matter. I don't think it even exists in Sri Lanka or Afghanistan either.
 
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