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Is the Australian ban on citizens returning from India a breach of human rights?

Probably not many people know that in Australia weddings were cancelled or kept to a maximum of 5-10 people, funerals had a maximum of 10 and some aged care homes stopped all visits from families, regional areas were isolated, strict rules like only aged people were allowed into supermarkets early in the morning. We did the hard yards to keep our country safe and have very little sympathy for those that tried to find ways around the hardship we all faced.
Same thing happened in the UK. Whilst the rest of us in the UK were in lockdown (and still are to some extent), tens of thousands bug**red off to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc to have 'a jolly good time'. Quite often they were on benefits in the UK, and (illegally) continued receiving those benefits whilst in the aforementioned countries since they're meant to tell the authorities they're going abroad if they're on benefits.

I applaud the Australian authorities for their prompt action to safeguard their citizens.
 
It is a technicality that you, and most cheerleaders of Australia are missing, and that is the difference between:

1) Stopping flights from a country or region
2) Making it a crime for your citizens to come from a particular country

I have no affiliation with Australia nor am I a cheerleader so please stop making assumptions.

(2) has not been done even by hardcore Covid actors like Singapore or New Zealand.

All I said was they have strict food laws so I dunno why people are so surprised they have zero tolerance to a viral disease. It’s their borders so they can patrol them how they like, they also posted numerous warnings since 2019 that they would close their borders if things got out of hand, yet people still decided to travel and take a risk.

Did I say I agree or disagree with it? If you want to have a credible discussion fine but if your going to get emotional and start making silly comparisons that have no correlation to the topic at hand then there’s no point.

And more to your point like I said Myanmar are doing exactly as they please so not sure how that comment supported your statement?
 
Australia needs to do what is right by it. If Aussies in India are a threat then they have every right to be banned.
 
It is a technicality that you, and most cheerleaders of Australia are missing, and that is the difference between:

1) Stopping flights from a country or region
2) Making it a crime for your citizens to come from a particular country

(2) has not been done even by hardcore Covid actors like Singapore or New Zealand.

This. No one actually touched on this.
 
But the government said the spike in positive cases from India now threatened to overwhelm its quarantine system, which has capacity to handle a maximum limit of 2% of arrivals being infected.

One needs to point out how much is this 2%?

The Australian Medical Association, the nation's peak medical group, said the need to pause Indian arrivals was an indication of the "frailty" of the quarantine system.

When your front line workers questions your quarrantine system implying it is not up to par where you have to take such extreme measures, it IS a problem since they will be the ones who will deal with them day to day basis.

"We would rather our governments focus on fixing the quarantine system and bring Australians home, rather than extend this ban any longer than it needs to be."

Makes sense.
 
Same thing happened in the UK. Whilst the rest of us in the UK were in lockdown (and still are to some extent), tens of thousands bug**red off to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc to have 'a jolly good time'. Quite often they were on benefits in the UK, and (illegally) continued receiving those benefits whilst in the aforementioned countries since they're meant to tell the authorities they're going abroad if they're on benefits.

I applaud the Australian authorities for their prompt action to safeguard their citizens.

This is the key point. This pandemic has shown both great compassion but also downright selfishness.

When the UK placed Pakistan and Bangladesh on the red list, most sensible folk knew it was due to the surge of people travelling for no reason other than escape lockdown, often falsely declaring the reason and taking advantage of generous govt handouts. It was political and economic reasons which kept India off the red list a bit longer - not the case numbers. All these people were increasing the virus transmission.

Indians upset about Australias move should be challenging their fellow citizens on why they felt they were above lockdown restrictions applied to the general public and are happy to put others health at risk.
 
Similar hardships for other Indians who live abroad:

==

Starting Tuesday, the United States is restricting Indian nationals from flying into U.S. airports.

It's part of a growing global ban on travel to and/or from India in the wake of the catastrophic COVID-19 surge that is setting records for daily cases – 400,000 and up reported. And health officials believe the numbers are vastly undercounted.

The travel bans are designed to protect the rest of the world from a dangerous variant that has yet to be fully analyzed. And many health experts say travel bans are effective public health measures.

But there is collateral damage.

Prapagaran Vengadasalam is the first in his family to graduate from college, "the first one to ever set foot overseas," he says. The 29-year-old technology lead, working for Infosys in the southern Indian city of Mysore, was set to leave for Canada for a year of duty at the end of April. A week before he was due to leave, however, Canada joined the list of countries that had banned flights out of India.

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"I wanted to help my parents rebuild our home and settle loans," he says. "I could have done that faster by taking on projects abroad."

Beyond Canada, the list of travel bans is a long one: the U.K., Germany, Belgium, New Zealand, the United Arab Emirates, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Oman, Kuwait, Indonesia, Malawi, the Maldives, Tanzania, the Netherlands, Hong Kong, Thailand and Italy.

Perhaps the most severe restrictions are for Australian citizens. The 9,000-plus Aussies living and visiting in India are unable to return home, including a cricket team that had come to participate in Indian Premier League matches. The Australian government threatened those who skirt the ban with jail time ranging from 14 days up to five years, a $50,000 fine or both — but Prime Minister Scott Morrison later said it was "highly unlikely" that the maximum penalties would be levied.

Stranded visitors are posting in a Facebook support group called "Australians Stuck in India," which has a growing community of 30,000 members. The group has become a place to seek advice, quell anxiety and update travel information.

"There is deep worry over the well-being of family and friends," says Rhadika Sunderaj, one of the stranded Australians. She is a citizen of Indian origin who returned last year to plan her son's wedding (which was canceled due to the pandemic).

She scheduled a trip home, only to find out it was canceled when the money for her ticket was refunded to her credit card.

"I know many who have lost their loved ones in India and are unable to reach out to them in their last moments or attend their funerals because of these crushing travel restrictions," she says.

Unable to travel back to India, people are tweeting for help to attend to sick family members back home.

"The heartache is immense. I find it so 'othering' and discriminatory," Sunderaj says. "U.K. had more cases of its variant than we do right now in India, but U.K. travelers were never banned in Australia, even when their cases peaked."

Some neighboring countries are closing their borders.

In March, China said it would allow Indian travelers only if they were vaccinated with the made-in-China vaccine Sinovac, but that vaccine hasn't even been approved for use in India.

Nepal shares a 1,100-mile open border with India with 37 land entry points for vehicles. The Nepal government has shut only 22 of these points.

"The world is watching India's rising cases with unease," says Dr. Budhi Setiawan, chief of health for UNICEF in Nepal. "In Nepal, we share a porous border with India, and we are concerned about a spillover effect, which can severely strain our health infrastructure and systems."

Traffic at the India-Nepal border mostly consists of migrant workers from Nepal who labor in India, aid workers and tourists. Setiawan estimates that about 500,000 to 600,000 people will be coming back to Nepal from India through the land entry points in the next few months.

Nepal, meanwhile, has seen cases leap from 100 a day at the start of April to 7,000 a day in May, he says. Border closures are difficult to implement; India and Nepal have always operated open borders, built on friendship and years of shared culture and bilateral trade.

Constant health monitoring would be more effective, Setiawan says. "We need to ramp up testing and for those who do travel, ensure that they follow public health norms more stringently. There is a critical need to mobilize additional health workers, PPE and medical equipment. The very low levels of vaccination in Nepal magnifies the likelihood of the virus spiraling even further out of control."

And at least one royal visitor has been affected. The former king of Nepal visited India for the Kumbh Mela festival and is thought to have caught the Indian strain there.

Sri Lanka may have some of the same health care concerns but is keeping its borders open, with a restriction on the number of people from India allowed into the country.

The island nation depends on tourism, which employs more than 400,000 Sri Lankans. Hotels are open for business, including Indian tourists. The only requirement at some facilities is a negative PCR test when they arrive from the airport and leave the hotel.

One option is in-room quarantine for two weeks before leaving the grounds. This was the route taken by celebrity author and historian William Dalrymple, whose Instagram post about his "great escape" from infection-ridden Delhi via the Sri Lankan air travel bubble incited rage in India. (He later deleted it and apologized.)

As for the U.S. policy, while it is nowhere as restrictive as some other countries, exempting students and journalists traveling from India, it does cause heartache for many Indians working temporarily in the United States. And it will likely have wide-ranging implications for U.S. companies employing Indians, too.

A new petition is asking to "allow non-immigrant visa holders stuck in India to return home" to the United States.

There is a personal toll as well. Vijay Chidambaram, 33, is an assistant professor of computer science at the University of Texas at Austin. Chidambaram was looking forward to visiting his parents and in-laws in May. It had been two years since his parents had seen their only grandchild, who is now 3. "We had to cancel because of the COVID situation," he says. "Everyone is sad about this, and it worries me a lot because my dad is a doctor in contact with his patients every day. It is scary to hear stories about how people we know are getting sick."

V. Raman Kutty, an epidemiologist and honorary chairman of the nonprofit organization Health Action by People in Thrissur, Kerala, wonders if it all could have been avoided.

If the global community had joined together to ensure that all countries have access to vaccines, perhaps the variant in India would not have emerged. "That's a fight we could have won," he says.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...orkers-expats-families-an-aussie-cricket-team
 
This is the key point. This pandemic has shown both great compassion but also downright selfishness.

When the UK placed Pakistan and Bangladesh on the red list, most sensible folk knew it was due to the surge of people travelling for no reason other than escape lockdown, often falsely declaring the reason and taking advantage of generous govt handouts. It was political and economic reasons which kept India off the red list a bit longer - not the case numbers. All these people were increasing the virus transmission.

Indians upset about Australias move should be challenging their fellow citizens on why they felt they were above lockdown restrictions applied to the general public and are happy to put others health at risk.

You don't seem to understand the issue at discussion here as do many other people.

1. Indians need not challenge their "fellow citizens" because this is not an issue concerning Indian citizens.

2. The point of contention is not about India being placed on the red list. Anyone who's logical and reasonable would expect a country struggling in covid crisis to be on the red list.

3. This is concerning the Australian citizens and not the Indian citizens or Pakistani citizens or Bangladeshi citizens.

4. It is true that Pakistan, Bangladesh and India were placed on the red list by the UK. But it only meant direct flights were banned from those countries and that Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Indian citizens were banned from entering the UK. It DID NOT mean British citizens (doesn't matter which ethnicity) were banned from entering the UK. They could still enter UK through alternative routes but would have to enter into a government enforced hotel quarantine for 10-11 days.

5. Here, Australia has not only banned other non-Australian citizens from entering their country, they have banned their "own" citizens from entering Australia and not just that, to rub salt into wounds, they have enacted laws to punish any Australian citizen who enters his own country via alternative routes through high fines and rigorous imprisonment. It is why the move has been getting panned by a lot of people in Australia and when even the right wing politicians of any country are calling a move as racist, you know there's something wrong.

This means that the Australian government has effectively washed its hands off the responsibility of caring for its own citizens and even if an Australian citizen falls critically ill from covid, they are left to fend for themselves in a foreign country as their home country has effectively shut its doors on its own citizens unlike countries like the UK and US who have banned only citizens of other state entering their respective countries. It is why the move has been getting bad press in Australia and even the right wing politicians are criticising the move. Lot of people comparing this move with the red list of the UK and the US which is completely different.
 
You don't seem to understand the issue at discussion here as do many other people.


5. Here, Australia has not only banned other non-Australian citizens from entering their country, they have banned their "own" citizens from entering Australia and not just that, to rub salt into wounds, they have enacted laws to punish any Australian citizen who enters his own country via alternative routes through high fines and rigorous imprisonment. It is why the move has been getting panned by a lot of people in Australia and when even the right wing politicians of any country are calling a move as racist, you know there's something wrong.
t.

Even if some Australian people and politicians are criticizing this law, people here seem to be cheering for it. Truth be told, most people dont care about the technicalities, they see "Australia, India, ban" in the title and get all excited.

Now if this was Times of India and there was an article about UK or Europe stopping Pakistanis, most Indian commentators would cheer for it as well

In this pandemic era, some people get a thrill seeing other countries ban or punish anyone who isnt following their mantra of staying home 24/7 and gorging on Netflix

People attending weddings or funerals are deserving of any punishment, no matter how disproportionate. They themselves have their families next door, or have dysfunctional relationships (I know people who love the pandemic because they dont have to meet their siblings or parents who they always dread), and so cannot tolerate anyone travelling to see their family, even if they quarantine upon return
 
This means that the Australian government has effectively washed its hands off the responsibility of caring for its own citizens and even if an Australian citizen falls critically ill from covid, they are left to fend for themselves in a foreign country as their home country has effectively shut its doors on its own citizens unlike countries like the UK and US who have banned only citizens of other state entering their respective countries.

People here are cheering this rule based on how Australia has kept Covid low and so they can do whatever they want to maintain that

Even countries like Singapore, New Zealand, China, Mauritius, well even North Korea have not punished their citizens for returning from any other country.
 
Indians upset about Australias move should be challenging their fellow citizens on why they felt they were above lockdown restrictions applied to the general public and are happy to put others health at risk.

Indian citizens are not the ones facing this ban. It is Australian citizens.....

1) Australia had a law where only people approved to leave could do so. Anyone who left that way was not breaking the law as you are insinuating

2) Every single arrival to Australia has to quarantine, so a traveler is not putting others health at risk.
 
Even if some Australian people and politicians are criticizing this law, people here seem to be cheering for it. Truth be told, most people dont care about the technicalities, they see "Australia, India, ban" in the title and get all excited.

Now if this was Times of India and there was an article about UK or Europe stopping Pakistanis, most Indian commentators would cheer for it as well

In this pandemic era, some people get a thrill seeing other countries ban or punish anyone who isnt following their mantra of staying home 24/7 and gorging on Netflix

People attending weddings or funerals are deserving of any punishment, no matter how disproportionate. They themselves have their families next door, or have dysfunctional relationships (I know people who love the pandemic because they dont have to meet their siblings or parents who they always dread), and so cannot tolerate anyone travelling to see their family, even if they quarantine upon return

Indians and Pakistanis, an overwhelming majority of them, generally tend to be right wing. So it's not really surprising that they revel in schadenfreude of each other.

But plenty of people seem to be missing the point. It's not so much about Indians being banned in Australia but Australian citizens being deprived of their citizenship rights. Also people think everyone who's in India came for a leisure time and vacation. Not everyone would be stupid enough to holiday in India when a pandemic is happening and when Australia is literally free from the virus. I bet plenty of them got stuck while visiting their sick parents or close relatives due to the covid crisis.
 
it seems like recently, the Comprehension capability of few people has gone down a lot. You tell something, they will understand a totally irrelevant aspect.
 
it seems like recently, the Comprehension capability of few people has gone down a lot. You tell something, they will understand a totally irrelevant aspect.

I blame it on people viewing every single thing happening in every corner of the world through the India v Pakistan lens. Yesterday one bloke was asking me to wipe my tears when I explained it to him because IPL got cancelled, a tournament I wanted to get suspended right from the start of this season anyway because of the covid crisis.
 
3. This is concerning the Australian citizens and not the Indian citizens or Pakistani citizens or Bangladeshi citizens.
Since the middle of last year, Australian authorities have been advising Australian citizens not to travel abroad unless absolutely necessary, as they risk not being allowed back in if the borders are closed. So these Australian citizens (mainly of Indian origin) stuck in India have only themselves to blame, especially since it's been obvious for a couple of months at least that the situation in India was deteriorating, and so they had plenty of time to get back before this ban started.
 
Since the middle of last year, Australian authorities have been advising Australian citizens not to travel abroad unless absolutely necessary, as they risk not being allowed back in if the borders are closed. So these Australian citizens (mainly of Indian origin) stuck in India have only themselves to blame, especially since it's been obvious for a couple of months at least that the situation in India was deteriorating, and so they had plenty of time to get back before this ban started.

What makes you think these Australian citizens took the pains to visit India in the middle of covid crisis for leisurely purpose rather than for purposes absolutely necessary..
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I challenge you to a debate anytime PM.</p>— Michael Slater (@mj_slats) <a href="https://twitter.com/mj_slats/status/1389911116285841409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I challenge you to a debate anytime PM.</p>— Michael Slater (@mj_slats) <a href="https://twitter.com/mj_slats/status/1389911116285841409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He is embarrassing himself. He chose money &#55357;&#56496; and now complaining lol Some people may have had family illness/death and I have sympathy for them but not slater.
 
This Indian variant could endanger all the hard work carried out by the other countries...

If countries fail to control their boarders then this time next year we could be talking about the "Indian Covid"... the Chinese origins will be a distant memory

Haha, you'd like that won't you?

Gets your masters off the hook and puts your sworn enemy in the line of fire.
 
What makes you think these Australian citizens took the pains to visit India in the middle of covid crisis for leisurely purpose rather than for purposes absolutely necessary..
And what makes you think they didn't? And in case it was urgent enough to stay there for weeks and months, right up until a few days ago, then blooming well stay there a bit longer until Australia starts allowing them back in.
 
And what makes you think they didn't? And in case it was urgent enough to stay there for weeks and months, right up until a few days ago, then blooming well stay there a bit longer until Australia starts allowing them back in.

I don't know. I'm just trying to connect the dots here. There's a huge covid crisis ravaging the country. I guess India isn't exactly Ibiza at this point in time for the Australian citizens to holiday in the country. Maybe, just maybe some Australian citizens of Indian origin had parents or close relatives back in India falling sick, some unfortunately even succumbing to the disease especially when people are falling like flies in many hot spots in the country. And they maybe had certain responsibilities to fulfill.

We can keep guessing till the cows come home, but the point is not why they went home. The point is their state denying them a pretty basic right of them to enter their country, and worse, punishing them for it. And yeah, they can blooming well stay there a little longer till their government "allows" them to enter their country. But at the same time, people are allowed to criticise the decision, as it's happening in Australia.
 
I agree with Slater.

Nations shouldnt stop their citizens from returning but instead provide better isolation facilities. 5 years jail is a joke, peados in Aus get less sentences.
 
I don't know. I'm just trying to connect the dots here. There's a huge covid crisis ravaging the country. I guess India isn't exactly Ibiza at this point in time for the Australian citizens to holiday in the country. Maybe, just maybe some Australian citizens of Indian origin had parents or close relatives back in India falling sick, some unfortunately even succumbing to the disease especially when people are falling like flies in many hot spots in the country. And they maybe had certain responsibilities to fulfill.

We can keep guessing till the cows come home, but the point is not why they went home. The point is their state denying them a pretty basic right of them to enter their country, and worse, punishing them for it. And yeah, they can blooming well stay there a little longer till their government "allows" them to enter their country. But at the same time, people are allowed to criticise the decision, as it's happening in Australia.
For what its worth, if Boris and the UK govt had closed its borders and put strict quarantine procedures in place, just like NZ and Australia did at the very start, the UK wouldn't have had over 128,000 covid related deaths. That's the equivalent of over 2.5 million deaths in India based upon relative population sizes.

At its peak in Jan 2021, at one stage the UK was having almost 60,000 covid positive cases per day. (Tues 5th Jan 2021, positive cases 60,916. source: BBC). Again, relative to population size, that's the equivalent of over 1.2 million cases per day in India.

Fact of the matter is that those countries that took prompt action in closing it's borders, and putting in strict quarantine measures, have had a fraction the numbers of deaths from covid compared with countries that didn't.
 
Restricting flights from India is entirely different from banning citizens desperate to return to their homes. Australia is threatening to criminalize its own citizens for returning to their own country - utterly ridiculous, illegal and racist.

'Australia's threat to jail citizens returning home from India has sparked condemnation, with critics labelling the Covid measure as "racist" and a breach of human rights.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-56967520

Just quarantine them in hotels when they land until they are no longer infective.
 
For non Australians it may seem like they are one big block with hatred for anyone not willing to never ever travel outside Australia again. But their states politics shows as much fear of the outsider

WA and QL both shut out residents of other Australian states like NSW and VA citing higher Covid cases there. Governors in both states won elections as well on that platform of treating other Australians as all sick.
The mantra is "we are pure, everyone else is disease infected". NSW has been the most level headed state from what I hear

I have a cousin in WA (ironically a recent immigrant) who keeps posting about how proud she is to be in WA and how other state residents should be kept out lest they infect the pure people of Perth, this is hypochondria and mental illness masquerading in the name of "Covid safety"

There was also a well publicized incident when 4 premie babies died after another state (possibly QL) didn't allow them to be airlifted and treated in a hospital with better facilities. I am sure some posters here would cheer that as well.

The "we" of course changes according to situation. For e.g. when Perth in Western Australia had a snap lockdown of its residents went to other parts of the state, and i saw comments from those other parts whining and angry that Perth residents were going to go and "infect" them
 
It makes perfect sense. Every country has the right to protect its citizens from this horrible virus. There is no breach of rights here. I wish more countries would do what Australia is doing so we could quickly get rid of the virus.

Hong Kong has been banning flights from high-risk areas such as the UK, India,Pakistan and few others for more than a year now. This is not something new.
 
For non Australians it may seem like they are one big block with hatred for anyone not willing to never ever travel outside Australia again. But their states politics shows as much fear of the outsider

WA and QL both shut out residents of other Australian states like NSW and VA citing higher Covid cases there. Governors in both states won elections as well on that platform of treating other Australians as all sick.
The mantra is "we are pure, everyone else is disease infected". NSW has been the most level headed state from what I hear

I have a cousin in WA (ironically a recent immigrant) who keeps posting about how proud she is to be in WA and how other state residents should be kept out lest they infect the pure people of Perth, this is hypochondria and mental illness masquerading in the name of "Covid safety"

There was also a well publicized incident when 4 premie babies died after another state (possibly QL) didn't allow them to be airlifted and treated in a hospital with better facilities. I am sure some posters here would cheer that as well.

The "we" of course changes according to situation. For e.g. when Perth in Western Australia had a snap lockdown of its residents went to other parts of the state, and i saw comments from those other parts whining and angry that Perth residents were going to go and "infect" them

And you got all this information from your cousin, sorry to tell you this but she has lied to you. I live in WA and can tell you that you have been told a whole bunch of lies.
 
It makes perfect sense. Every country has the right to protect its citizens from this horrible virus. There is no breach of rights here. I wish more countries would do what Australia is doing so we could quickly get rid of the virus.

Hong Kong has been banning flights from high-risk areas such as the UK, India,Pakistan and few others for more than a year now. This is not something new.

You haven't read the headline, other countries have banned travel from high risk areas but Australia banned its own citizens and threatened them with jail time and fines if they try to make it back home, that's something that would never happen in America as that would be unconstitutional to ban your own citizens from returning home
 
You haven't read the headline, other countries have banned travel from high risk areas but Australia banned its own citizens and threatened them with jail time and fines if they try to make it back home, that's something that would never happen in America as that would be unconstitutional to ban your own citizens from returning home

HK has been doing the same. Thousands of HKers are/were stranded in the UK, India, Pakistan and a few other places.
 
For what its worth, if Boris and the UK govt had closed its borders and put strict quarantine procedures in place, just like NZ and Australia did at the very start, the UK wouldn't have had over 128,000 covid related deaths. That's the equivalent of over 2.5 million deaths in India based upon relative population sizes.

At its peak in Jan 2021, at one stage the UK was having almost 60,000 covid positive cases per day. (Tues 5th Jan 2021, positive cases 60,916. source: BBC). Again, relative to population size, that's the equivalent of over 1.2 million cases per day in India.

Fact of the matter is that those countries that took prompt action in closing it's borders, and putting in strict quarantine measures, have had a fraction the numbers of deaths from covid compared with countries that didn't.

You're comparing apples and oranges, the UK has a more central geographic position so is obviously going to get more people travelling through their country increasing the risk of an outbreak compared to the more isolated Australia which on the other end of the world, then there's the huge difference in population and density, the UK not only has more than 2x the population but is much more dense - it is after all a much older country and then there's the weather factor, the UK is a lot colder and Australia is the opposite. Also Australia didn't really have a strict lockdown, nothing compared to what we had in America, heck people in Australia have been walking around without masks since late last year and maybe even before that, they're not a good example
 
HK has been doing the same. Thousands of HKers are/were stranded in the UK, India, Pakistan and a few other places.

Hong Kong is not a democracy lol, Australia is in America's orbit - they're our vessel state so I'd expect them to share the same values enshrined in our constitution.
 
Hong Kong is not a democracy lol, Australia is in America's orbit - they're our vessel state so I'd expect them to share the same values enshrined in our constitution.

You dont seem to know much about America, I could list thousands and thousands of areas where Australia is different to America, for a start one is a republic. America has enshrined in its constitution the right ot bear arms, try that in Australia and you will be locked up.
 
You dont seem to know much about America, I could list thousands and thousands of areas where Australia is different to America, for a start one is a republic. America has enshrined in its constitution the right ot bear arms, try that in Australia and you will be locked up.

I know for a fact that Australia is in our orbit so their constitution and most of the laws mirror ours, there are a few exception such as gun laws and this recent ban of their own citizens from returning home.
 
I know for a fact that Australia is in our orbit so their constitution and most of the laws mirror ours, there are a few exception such as gun laws and this recent ban of their own citizens from returning home.

Most if not all countries would be in America's orbit then because almost all countries share the same laws. Austrlaia laws are more aligned with Sweden than America.
 
Both Australia and Sweden are part of fourteen eyes.

The other 9 eyes don't really matter, they were just added for certain objectives but Australia is part of the original five eyes.
 
I am surprised that people doesn't understand just a simple concept.

Its one aspect when citizens are stranded due to ban on air travels.

Its a whole different aspect if the citizens are banned to enter and face jail time if they do.

In former, no one is banned and they could come in if they find any means. In latter case, they are the at the verge of making it criminal offense.
 
And you got all this information from your cousin, sorry to tell you this but she has lied to you. I live in WA and can tell you that you have been told a whole bunch of lies.

Nope, all that information is available on the web, she has nothing to do with it

All she does is post stuff like "proud to be a Western Australian" and how strong state borders kept Covid away from WA implying she supports shutting down from the rest of Austalia

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...ver-baby-deaths-at-adelaide-hospital/12801108
 
Nope, all that information is available on the web, she has nothing to do with it

All she does is post stuff like "proud to be a Western Australian" and how strong state borders kept Covid away from WA implying she supports shutting down from the rest of Austalia

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...ver-baby-deaths-at-adelaide-hospital/12801108

So your own link proves that this was a lie, you should have read it before posting.

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews yesterday rejected suggestions COVID-19 restrictions in his state prevented the four infants from being transferred to Melbourne for care, saying that decision had been made in South Australia.

"I don't think it was a matter of restrictions — there was a choice, not at our end but at the other end, for them not to be sent," Mr Andrews said.
 
Nope, all that information is available on the web, she has nothing to do with it

All she does is post stuff like "proud to be a Western Australian" and how strong state borders kept Covid away from WA implying she supports shutting down from the rest of Austalia

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...ver-baby-deaths-at-adelaide-hospital/12801108

I'm proud to be Western Australian and it is because of the closure of borders that we have been able to keep covid numbers very low. I support these closures and I'm grateful for the sacrifices made by many Australians that has kept my family safe so far. We know how bad this pandemic is and the terrible cost to many families that have lost loved ones. At this point in time the most important thing is to keep covid out of our community, if people like Slater had the same determination to protect our families as everyone else he would not have even left Australia to go to the IPL.
 
I am surprised that people doesn't understand just a simple concept.

Its one aspect when citizens are stranded due to ban on air travels.

Its a whole different aspect if the citizens are banned to enter and face jail time if they do.

In former, no one is banned and they could come in if they find any means. In latter case, they are the at the verge of making it criminal offense.

If you willingly go to coach, commentate,play in a foreign cricket league when Covid situation was looking bleak in this country then you have no one to blame but your own lack of brain cells.
 
If you willingly go to coach, commentate,play in a foreign cricket league when Covid situation was looking bleak in this country then you have no one to blame but your own lack of brain cells.

If that is the case, why the Australian medical association, the federation of doctors have requested to lift the ban up/revoke the proposal of jail term, considering they will be the ones who will be at utmost risk for anyone returning from foreign?

Do you think AMA has lack of brain cells too that they don't see the potentiality of the proposal?
 
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No one has mentioned the point that it will cost around £2000 PER British citizen to quarantine if they return home from a country on the red list, and the government provide a list of approved hotels etc - there's no self quarantine when citizens from UK arrive.

A family of 4 will have to fork out £8000 and quarantine for 10 days.

This is why there was a rush to get back before the deadline. The result? UK citizens are stranded abroad because they cannot afford the cost of a government imposed quarantine.

PS: Australian government did not decide on imprisoning citizens returning from India, it was already law in Australia. MiG posted the article in this very thread.
 
If that is the case, why the Australian medical association, the federation of doctors have requested to lift the ban up/revoke the proposal of jail term, considering they will be the ones who will be at utmost risk for anyone returning from foreign?

Do you think AMA has lack of brain cells too that they don't see the potentiality of the proposal?

Because the Australian medical association do a great job and provide great medical services for all Australians but they are do not make the rules for movement of citizens and laws regarding entry and exit of Australians. We have a separate authority that manages these.

I think the AMA should leave the politics to the politicians and continue their great work in the medical field.
 
Cabinet's National Security Committee has signed off on a plan to begin repatriating Australians stranded in India once the temporary ban is lifted next week.

Key points:
All Australians returning from India will quarantine at the Howard Springs facility, which is expected to be nearly empty by next Saturday
Around 900 Australians who are listed as vulnerable by the Department of Foreign Affairs will be given priority
It is unclear whether commercial flights will also be able to restart, with one government source saying it will be a slow and steady process
Prime Minister Scott Morrison is expected to announce the details tomorrow, in what will come as a relief to the estimated 9,000 Australians stuck in the COVID-ravaged country.

It is understood the first repatriation flight will leave Australia for India almost as soon as the ban is lifted on May 15 and will have the capacity to bring home around 200 passengers.

All Australians returning from India will quarantine outside Darwin at the Howard Springs facility, which is expected to be nearly empty by next Saturday.

Around 900 Australians who have been listed as "vulnerable" by the Department of Foreign Affairs will be given priority. But they will need to return two negative COVID-19 tests before they are allowed to fly.

Before the government imposed the travel ban, it had been chartering two flights to India each week to bring Australians home. The ABC has been told there would be a maximum of one repatriation flight per week once travel resumes.

After arriving in India following the death of his mother, Melbourne man Guarav Saxena was met with the unthinkable, his father had suddenly succumbed to coronavirus too

It is unclear whether commercial flights will also be able to restart, with one government source saying it would be a slow and steady process.

The government has come under sustained pressure for not only banning anyone in India from flying to Australia but making it a criminal offence to do so, punishable by hefty fines and imprisonment.

Earlier today, Immigration Minister Alex Hawke warned the repatriation process was "very complex" and would "take some time".

"This second wave is very bad, the logistics in India are very difficult, people are living in remote towns and villages and to get them safely to an airport is a very difficult undertaking," he said.

"These are the real, practical consequences. There are thousands of people, many dying on the streets in India. So it's going to be very complex."

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100122618?__twitter_impression=true
 
Because the Australian medical association do a great job and provide great medical services for all Australians but they are do not make the rules for movement of citizens and laws regarding entry and exit of Australians. We have a separate authority that manages these.

I think the AMA should leave the politics to the politicians and continue their great work in the medical field.

Are you implying that AMA have no clue regards to the quarantine situation including processing of incoming travellers and hence lack the required knowledge?
 
No one has mentioned the point that it will cost around £2000 PER British citizen to quarantine if they return home from a country on the red list, and the government provide a list of approved hotels etc - there's no self quarantine when citizens from UK arrive.

A family of 4 will have to fork out £8000 and quarantine for 10 days.

This is why there was a rush to get back before the deadline. The result? UK citizens are stranded abroad because they cannot afford the cost of a government imposed quarantine.

PS: Australian government did not decide on imprisoning citizens returning from India, it was already law in Australia. MiG posted the article in this very thread.


It is not £8000 for a family of four, it is approx £2000 for the first person and the second is around £600, children are cheaper.
 
Are you implying that AMA have no clue regards to the quarantine situation including processing of incoming travellers and hence lack the required knowledge?

What I can tell you is that every outbreak of the virus in Australia has been due to breakdowns in quarantine system, hotel aircon systems are not designed for this, employees of quarantine have carried the virus out, people have broken quarantine protocols.

These are the reasons for the outbreaks and AMA have no answers in how to overcome them, There is a pause on taking in so many infected people so there is time to come up with controls to stop these outbreaks. Hotels are being examined for aircon upgrades, higher pay for workers in the quarantine system so they can reduce their exposure to everyone else, tougher restrictions to ensure people adhere to protocols and how to monitor them.

The AMA do a great job on the medical side but these problems need to be treated by different authorities that have the resources and knowledge for the non medical side of quarantine.
 
What I can tell you is that every outbreak of the virus in Australia has been due to breakdowns in quarantine system, hotel aircon systems are not designed for this, employees of quarantine have carried the virus out, people have broken quarantine protocols.

These are the reasons for the outbreaks and AMA have no answers in how to overcome them, There is a pause on taking in so many infected people so there is time to come up with controls to stop these outbreaks. Hotels are being examined for aircon upgrades, higher pay for workers in the quarantine system so they can reduce their exposure to everyone else, tougher restrictions to ensure people adhere to protocols and how to monitor them.

The AMA do a great job on the medical side but these problems need to be treated by different authorities that have the resources and knowledge for the non medical side of quarantine.

Due to employees of quarantine have carried the virus out (you stated).

This will also include doctors, nurses and the other medical support staff. Are you alleging that they were reckless and carried those virus out too as a result of which stricter measures needed to be taken?
 
Due to employees of quarantine have carried the virus out (you stated).

This will also include doctors, nurses and the other medical support staff. Are you alleging that they were reckless and carried those virus out too as a result of which stricter measures needed to be taken?

You do not get the virus, carry the virus due to reckless behaviour. It is difficult as a health professional to protect one self when s/he is in that environment for a considerable time everyday.
 
Due to employees of quarantine have carried the virus out (you stated).

This will also include doctors, nurses and the other medical support staff. Are you alleging that they were reckless and carried those virus out too as a result of which stricter measures needed to be taken?

Security staff have carried the virus out and some were reckless and some were not, the last one wore all the protective equipment but it appears he may have came into contact with a baggage trolly. Another infected person is thought to have contracted the virus from a door not sealing properly.

If you read my post I did state that the medical staff have been great and no problems with them at all.
 
Their country their rules as indian posters usually say
 
Australia will resume repatriation flights for some citizens in India after a controversial ban on arrivals from the country ends on 15 May.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has faced criticism for failing to help citizens trapped in the Covid-ravaged nation.

The ban sparked further anger after the government said Australians seeking to fly home could face jail or fines. Mr Morrison later played down this threat.

On Friday, he said they would begin by bringing back "vulnerable" citizens.

About 900 Australians are registered with the government in this group. More than 9,000 Australians are in India in total.

Mr Morrison said he expects the travel ban to end on 15 May. However, his government will wait until next week to make a decision on whether to restart commercial flights from India, which is how most stranded Australians will be able to get home.

Even then, many fear they may find it difficult to secure a seat on a flight, or afford the costly fares.

Why can't Australians get back into their country?
The India restrictions, which began on 27 April, led to the cancellation of two official evacuation flights that week. The ban's wider impact has also been heavily criticised..

The tough measures were introduced due to India's escalating Covid crisis. The country is seeing more than 300,000 cases reported each day and hospitals continue to run out of oxygen.

Who will get to go first?
Mr Morrison said the government was planning three repatriation flights in the second half of May, which would bring back those Australians who have registered as "vulnerable".

That group may grow. As the situation in India worsened in the week since the travel ban was announced, the number of vulnerable Australians jumped from 600 people to 900.

India Covid aid 'not reaching those in need'

Evacuees will be taken to the Howard Springs quarantine facility in the Northern Territory, which will be expanded to provide 2,000 beds by next week.

Australia initially justified the ban by arguing the high rate of infections seen in arrivals from India was putting the quarantine system under stress.

The faults in Australia's hotel quarantine
But on Friday, Mr Morrison said the ban had worked to reduce the number of cases in quarantine "back to more manageable levels".

"[We] will be at a level by 15 May to ensure, that as planned, we will be able to return to having those repatriation flights from India."

How has the public reacted?

While Australians have been largely supportive of the government's strict border policies over the past year, the India travel ban sparked significant outcry.

Public anger fixated on the idea that the government had left its citizens in danger, and would punish them if they attempted to return.

Critics - including legal and medical experts - accused the government of abandoning its people.

Many Indian-Australians, among others, also argued the government had enacted a "racist" policy given similarly harsh restrictions weren't applied to arrivals from other high-risk nations.

One prominent voice, cricketer-turned-commentator Michael Slater, wrote a popular tweet accusing the prime minister of having "blood on your hands".

"Take your private jet and come and witness dead bodies on the street," Slater wrote in another tweet.

He was one of about 40 Australians involved in the Indian Premier League cricket competition which was suspended this week.

Cricket Australia announced on Wednesday that the remaining cricketers had been moved out of the country, and would get a chartered flight home after the ban is lifted.

Australia has enjoyed near-zero infection rates due to strict border and quarantine controls, and contact-tracing measures. Sydney recorded two new local cases this week, prompting authorities to reimpose mask-wearing rules and limits on group gatherings.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57018318
 
India's Covid pandemic: Girl, 5, separated from family by Australia restrictions

Dilin was unable to hold back his emotions when he talked about his young daughter, who he has not seen since November 2019.

"I can certainly see the sorrow in her heart… she truly misses us," he told an Australian Senate committee on Friday.

Johannah, 5, is one of at least 173 unaccompanied children who are stuck in India trying to return to Australia.

She was staying with her grandparents when the pandemic struck and borders were closed.

Johannah's parents tried to get her on government organised flights to Sydney, however children younger than 14 are not allowed to travel alone on the repatriation trips.

Qantas, which operates flights between India and Australia, also does not allow unaccompanied minors, so the couple's only other option is to charter a private plane or fly with Air India, however until recently Johanna was still too young.

Drisya and Dilin were finally able to get Johannah a seat on a chartered plane from Bangalore to Sydney, with a private company willing to take unaccompanied children.

It was due to arrive in Sydney on 6 May, however that flight was also cancelled when the Australian government brought in a controversial ban on all arrivals from India.

"It was our last hope, we have exhausted all options," Dilin told the BBC. "We literally fell apart. Sometimes you get a ray of hope, but then there's a set back like this," he said.

Drisya and Dilin told their story to an Australian Senate committee which is investigating the government's efforts to help stranded Australians return home from India.

Drisya told the hearing that there were seven other unaccompanied children on the privately chartered flight. The couple, who have connected with families in similar situations on social media, say many of the children are very young - some even younger than Johannah.

"I plead, on behalf of all of them, to please consider the option of bringing in minors unaccompanied, either through repatriation flights or even private chartered flights," Dilin said.

Senior Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) official Lynette Wood said a flight specifically for children had not been considered, and that the government was working directly with families to try and bring children home. The BBC also approached the DFAT for comment on this article.

Australia's High Commissioner to India Barry O'Farrell told the hearing 20 unaccompanied minors had been helped home since December.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57019857
 
Covid: First Australian repatriation flight from India lands in Darwin

Only 80 of the plane's original 150 passengers were allowed to fly home due to Covid restrictions
Australia has carried out its first repatriation flight from India after ending its controversial travel ban from the Covid-hit country.

The government said 80 people arrived in Darwin on Saturday, and would be quarantined for a fortnight.

Their Qantas flight was originally scheduled to carry 150 people onboard.

But 70 passengers were later barred from travel after testing positive for coronavirus or coming into close contact with others who were.

Australia's strict rules on pre-flight testing meant there was not enough time for the seats to be given to others waiting to return.

Australia to resume some India flights after backlash
Treasurer Josh Frydenberg said there would be more capacity for people to return to Australia on other flights scheduled in May.

"We're following the medical advice and ensuring that we protect Australians here," Mr Frydenberg told reporters. "We've got to maintain our health settings because we know how damaging to the lives and livelihoods of Australians an outbreak here [can be]."

He added that Australia's High Commission was working to help other Australians stranded in India, and at least 9,500 had registered as wanting to return.

The Australian government announced the flights following an outcry over a three-week ban on all arrivals from India - a country dealing with one of the world's largest outbreaks of coronavirus.

But critics have said the proposed rescue effort is too small and excludes most Australians stuck in India. They've called on the government to allow more commercial airlines to fly from India to Australia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57126041
 
I read somewhere that medical facilities in Australia & NZ are relatively poor for first world countries - there is apparently a 3 year wait to get some medical procedures done in Australia. Is that the reason driving this absolute nonsense & paranoiacal trampling of rights by the Aussie/NZ governments?

The virus will be gone soon enough & things will be back to normal as citizens get vaccinated. But i shudder to think what kind of precedence we are setting in terms of seemingly democratic governments having absolute power over the citizens lives. Nothing stops governments in snooping over your movements, your contacts etc to control your life, all in the name of public good.
 
Arrogants dont have rights. They need to stand in the naughty queue i am afraid!
 
I read somewhere that medical facilities in Australia & NZ are relatively poor for first world countries - there is apparently a 3 year wait to get some medical procedures done in Australia. Is that the reason driving this absolute nonsense & paranoiacal trampling of rights by the Aussie/NZ governments?

The virus will be gone soon enough & things will be back to normal as citizens get vaccinated. But i shudder to think what kind of precedence we are setting in terms of seemingly democratic governments having absolute power over the citizens lives. Nothing stops governments in snooping over your movements, your contacts etc to control your life, all in the name of public good.

Where do you get your information, Australia is one of the worlds best health care systems, it is ranked 9th in the world ahead of the UK (13th), Germany (17th), USA (30th) and NZ is ranked (16th).
 
Where do you get your information, Australia is one of the worlds best health care systems, it is ranked 9th in the world ahead of the UK (13th), Germany (17th), USA (30th) and NZ is ranked (16th).

As i said, there was some random article i read on the topic & i will try to fish that out. Dont recollect anything about ratings in it, but it definitely talked about the long wait period for some non-elective procedures & also the incredibly slow vaccine rollout in Australia, partly due to a shortage of medical personnel . Infact the article was very critical of the Australian govt’s abysmal vaccine policy (they are apparently the slowest for all first world countries) & the fact that the government is quick to trample on citizens rights as containment policy without augmenting public health measures.
 
As i said, there was some random article i read on the topic & i will try to fish that out. Dont recollect anything about ratings in it, but it definitely talked about the long wait period for some non-elective procedures & also the incredibly slow vaccine rollout in Australia, partly due to a shortage of medical personnel . Infact the article was very critical of the Australian govt’s abysmal vaccine policy (they are apparently the slowest for all first world countries) & the fact that the government is quick to trample on citizens rights as containment policy without augmenting public health measures.

The vaccine rollout in Australia did have a hiccup when blood clots became an issue but that was not the health systems fault. The media has been critical of politicians using the roll out as the vehicle for their sensationalism.

The left loonies have been crying about citizens rights but the other 95% of Australians dont have any issue, the state governments have been responsible for their own borders and some have disagreed with each other but thats good healthy discussion and enables several methods of containment to be tried and then adopting the most suitable.

I dont know how much faster other countries were in getting out the vaccine but not many of them have achieved what Australia has and that is getting the vaccine out to the people before covid has.

Everyone I know are very happy with the way the government has handled this pandemic and have not heard any one that is unhappy with the medical services.
 
A third Australian man has died in India from COVID-19 and his desperate brother is begging for their elderly father now alone in the country to be allowed into Australia.

Sunil Khanna, 51, an Australian citizen from Sydney’s west, had been living in New Delhi before his death where he cared for his elderly parents who were Indian nationals.

According to his brother Sanjay Khanna, of Kellyville in Sydney’s west, Sunil and their parents tested positive to COVID-19 on April 25.

“I tried all my contacts to get help, trying to get an ambulance for my brother - I called 28 ambulances,” he said.

“Finally when I was able to get a bed for my brother on the 29th [of April].

“But it had just reached the hospital and he suffered a cardiac pulmonary arrest and died.”

Within 24 hours, their mother had also died from the virus.

“I felt totally helpless,” Mr Khanna said. “The health system has totally collapsed.”

He said Sunil had registered with the Australian High Commission in New Delhi, but it seemed to be overloaded with calls.

Mr Khanna said he was contacted by the Australian authorities after he notified them about his brother’s death.

Sunil’s is the third confirmed COVID-19 death of an Australian citizen or permanent resident in India, with the virus devastating the country since a deadly second wave took hold earlier this year.

Govind Kant, 47, died on the weekend after travelling to India for his mother’s funeral, while the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade earlier this month confirmed the death of a 59-year-old permanent resident. Mr Kant’s sister said he had tried to secure a flight home in mid-April but was unable to. He eventually booked an Air India flight for April 24, but tested positive in the days before it was due to leave.

Mr Khanna is now mourning the loss of his mother and only brother while trying to look after his elderly father who is alone in India with no family left. He is desperate for the government to allow his father into the country on humanitarian grounds, willing to sponsor him on a parental visa.

“He’s very anxious and quite teary and lonely when I speak to him, but I try to keep him positive,” Mr Khanna said.

“He’s my last remaining relative I have in India. An 83-year-old, alone by himself stuck in the home and I can’t go there.”

The sister of a Sydney man who died in India after contracting COVID-19 has described his desperation at returning home even as the virus took hold.

DFAT has been contacted for comment.

The government considers exemptions for travel into or out of Australia during the pandemic for immediate family of citizens.

This includes spouses and dependent children, but not their parents.

Sydney migration agent and president of Little India Harris Park Business Association, Sanjay Deshwal, said more compassion needed to be shown to citizens and their families stuck in India.

“We fully understand the notion that Australia has to be kept safe,” he said.

“But not allowing people to come in these dire circumstances is very sad.

“In the Asian subcontinent culture, parents are as close to you as your children and your wife are.

“Parents and grandparents are a very close-knit part of the family.”

https://www.smh.com.au/national/tot...s-in-india-from-covid-19-20210519-p57ta7.html
 
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