Is the rest of the Islamic world really interested in the fate of IOK?

[MenInG]

Simple question.

OIC etc are good talking shops but where is the action?

 

[The Viper]

They don’t care. All they give are blanket statements and countries like Saudi Arabia do nothing. Truthfully, I don’t see anything positive from Saudi Arabia aside from the hijaz.

 

[TSA321]

No, even many Pakistanis themselves aren't that interested I'd guess.

 

[liam26]

No , most of the Muslim World does not care as it doesn't hold any significance to their National interests.

If you replace Kashmir with Xinjiang then Pakistan is doing the same thing.

Is Pakistan interested in Chinese treatment of Uighurs ? Does the state of Pakistan raise the issue of Uighurs at International meetings ? No they don't as doing so will be against their National Interest as China is an ally. Likewise other Muslim countries dont want to antagonize India for what they consider as an internal dispute.

Different countries different priorities

 

[GenericBrand]

Not really, because there is no significant cultural or religious attachment towards Kashmir from the Islamic world.

This isn't Jerusalem.

 

[Tubs]

Of course not. The Ummah is simply a concept, not a reality.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

It's a ruthless political world.

Unfortunately, the whole Ummah concept died after 4 Khalifas.

 

[Shah]

I don't think any Muslim country supports Pakistan's position on IOK with the exception of Turkey.
On the contrary they openly support India's position, especially Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Kuwait, Bangladesh & Afghanistan, and to a lesser extent Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain & Jordan.

Pakistan cannot expect any assistance from the Islamic world as far as Kashmir is concerned in particular from the Arab countries. I fail to understand Pakistan's foreign policy of support for Palestine whereas Palestine and its Arab neighbours are openly pro-India and anti-Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

There is more chance of Canada, Liberal democrats, leftist labor members supporting and acting for Kashmiris than OIC etc which should signify that religion means jack but a modern ideology has more compassion.

 

[Nadeemp]

Money talks and bull walks

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Simple question.

OIC etc are good talking shops but where is the action?

What type of action is Pakistan hoping for?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If the so called Muslim world have been ok with selling the third holiest islamic site away then its unlikely they will give a damn about Kashmir.

 

[Itachi]

If the so called Muslim world have been ok with selling the third holiest islamic site away then its unlikely they will give a damn about Kashmir.

Which holy site?

 

[Varun]

Why would any Muslim country other than Pakistan care about that godforsaken slab of ice?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Which holy site?

Jerusalem

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I looked at the poll results, and saw no vote winning 6-1 and thought what would Ertugrul do?

So I voted yes the rest of the Islamic world do care, they have simply been misled by their leaders who conspire with the kafir to weaken the iman of the believers.

 

[gani999]

Not really, because there is no significant cultural or religious attachment towards Kashmir from the Islamic world.

This isn't Jerusalem.

It's got nothing to do with any cultural attachment either. The fact that Jerusalem is now in Israeli hands hasn't stopped muslim countries like Turkey, Jordan, Egypt and now UAE from establishing diplomatic and trade relations with them.

As far as Kashmir is concerned, it is probably just that barring a handful, no one really thinks Pakistan has a valid claim. They are simply too polite to state it explicitly.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's got nothing to do with any cultural attachment either. The fact that Jerusalem is now in Israeli hands hasn't stopped muslim countries like Turkey, Jordan, Egypt and now UAE from establishing diplomatic and trade relations with them.

As far as Kashmir is concerned, it is probably just that barring a handful, no one really thinks Pakistan has a valid claim. They are simply too polite to state it explicitly.

If they thought Pakistan doesn't have a significant claim, why couldn't they just politely say so?

 

[gani999]

If they thought Pakistan doesn't have a significant claim, why couldn't they just politely say so?

They have shown it time and again. Actions speak louder than words.

And I'm quite sure it has been told politely in many diplomatic meetings.

 

[Tubs]

I looked at the poll results, and saw no vote winning 6-1 and thought what would Ertugrul do?

So I voted yes the rest of the Islamic world do care, they have simply been misled by their leaders who conspire with the kafir to weaken the iman of the believers.

View attachment 104954

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but you're joking, right?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No I definitely voted yes. The poll stands at 6-2 now.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They have shown it time and again. Actions speak louder than words.

And I'm quite sure it has been told politely in many diplomatic meetings.

Actions speak loud enough I agree, but these are turncoat leaders who don't represent the people of their own countries in many cases, that is why they don't have genuine democracies.

As for your assumptions about what has been said in diplomatic meetings, well I guess you are free to imagine anything you like.

 

[miandadrules]

How many non-Arab issues does the Islamic world care about?

 

[MenInG]

How many non-Arab issues does the Islamic world care about?

That's a good question - am struggling to find one.

 

[sweep_shot]

We have to look at two different groups - rulers and people.

I expect majority of the people from Islamic world to want Kashmiris to be free (just like Palestinians, Uighurs etc.).

Not sure about the rulers though.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

How many non-Arab issues does the Islamic world care about?

How many Arab issues does the Islamic World care about? Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, etc are all a mess right now.

Only "Arab" issue that gets attention is Palestine, as that land is holy for Muslims.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Except for Pakistanis, almost no one cares about the Kashmiri Muslims.

 

[miandadrules]

How many Arab issues does the Islamic World care about? Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, etc are all a mess right now.

Only "Arab" issue that gets attention is Palestine, as that land is holy for Muslims.

Those are all areas of Muslim on Muslim violence. The entire Ummah was up in arms when the foreign troops were there.

Yemen is an Arab issue. The Ummah is silent whilst the custodians of Islam bomb them in to an oblivion.

Would they be so silent if a non-Muslim was perpetrating such barbarity?

 

[miandadrules]

That's a good question - am struggling to find one.

Regardless if you believe in the theology, I think it’s imperative that the Muslim world demands a more universal approach.

No one life is more important than another. And in the context of Islam, no Muslim life should be valued more than any other Muslim.

 

[Itachi]

Regardless if you believe in the theology, I think it’s imperative that the Muslim world demands a more universal approach.

No one life is more important than another. And in the context of Islam, no Muslim life should be valued more than any other Muslim.

That goes against the natural flow of human thought process.

 

[miandadrules]

That goes against the natural flow of human thought process.

Just a remnant of tribalism.

 

[Madplayer]

The Islamic world is a hollow term today. The common people might have love for their muslim brothers and sisters around the world but they dont have the power to do anything so they are more or less irrelevant.

Its just nation states now. And in those nation states, the ones with muslim majority have rulers who dont even care about the sovereignty of their own nations. Why would they care about us?

 

[MenInG]

Except for Pakistanis, almost no one cares about the Kashmiri Muslims.

Actually the God Fearing Arabs do - they are unable to say it in public because of their environments.

This has been my experience.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Army chief Gen. Naravane to visit Saudi Arabia & UAE, in a sign of growing ties<br><br>ThePrint's <a href="https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@sneheshphilip</a> reports<a href="https://t.co/ITVq8WFzVX">https://t.co/ITVq8WFzVX</a></p>— ThePrintIndia (@ThePrintIndia) <a href="https://twitter.com/ThePrintIndia/status/1334544354015264768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 3, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Actually the God Fearing Arabs do - they are unable to say it in public because of their environments.

This has been my experience.

Which is why democracy has had such a hard time getting a foothold in Arab countries. I think it would be very dangerous if Arab Muslims started getting a voice. Just look what happened in Algeria and Egypt. The military had to be sent in hard to quell any voices which could disturb the established order.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Those are all areas of Muslim on Muslim violence. The entire Ummah was up in arms when the foreign troops were there.

Yemen is an Arab issue. The Ummah is silent whilst the custodians of Islam bomb them in to an oblivion.

Right, so what you initially implied that the Muslim world cares only when Arabs are effected is not true.

How many non-Arab issues does the Islamic world care about?

Would they be so silent if a non-Muslim was perpetrating such barbarity?

Maybe. Look at China, Muslim world is mostly silent. With the exception of Palestine, the only issue that stronly resonates is when fellow Muslims of their own culture are being killed by non Muslims.

Like Pakistan caring about Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims when they are being killed.

 

[miandadrules]

Right, so what you initially implied that the Muslim world cares only when Arabs are effected is not true.





Maybe. Look at China, Muslim world is mostly silent. With the exception of Palestine, the only issue that stronly resonates is when fellow Muslims of their own culture are being killed by non Muslims.

Like Pakistan caring about Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims when they are being killed.

If the perpetrators are Arab Muslims it’s a perfect example of my point. When foreign powers attack Arabs, it suddenly becomes the most prescient issue.

The point about China also illustrates this.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If the perpetrators are Arab Muslims it’s a perfect example of my point. When foreign powers attack Arabs, it suddenly becomes the most prescient issue.

The point about China also illustrates this.

Foreign powers attacked Libya. An Arab country. Not much of an outcry.

Ultimately we dont have a large sample size. The only example is Iraq when the entire Muslim world was against that invasion. But it was not only Muslims it was people around the world. And the reason was that was built up over months. Non stop discussion on whether there would be an invasion or not.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Right, so what you initially implied that the Muslim world cares only when Arabs are effected is not true.





Maybe. Look at China, Muslim world is mostly silent. With the exception of Palestine, the only issue that stronly resonates is when fellow Muslims of their own culture are being killed by non Muslims.

Like Pakistan caring about Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims when they are being killed.

China is not really a great example. What they are doing is within their own borders so that creates some doubt as to the legitimacy of protest. Were China to invade or attack a sovereign Muslim nation you would probably see much more outcry. Symbolism is an important distinction here. Rightly or wrongly, crossing a border crosses a line.

 

[yadunoe]

i would say the single biggest issue rn for islamic nations is france and macron which could be the issue we need to unite islam and have muslims working together again that is what we need to make islamic nations at the forefront of the world . attack on the prophet is what most muslim countries will unite against or palestine since its a holy site and zionist have been a thorn in our side for a long time. Kashmir is viewed as an internal matter between two nations of similar culture, the only way kashmir will be returned to pakistan is if the china dispute with india along the LAC intensifies and pakistan china work together to take it back.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Like Pakistan caring about Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims when they are being killed.

This is all nonsense imo.

This 'concern' that Pakistanis show for Kashmir and Indian muslims is itself superficial in many ways. If Pak was a democracy for 70 years straight with a free press, instead of the toxic hybrid mix of the self-interested military-mullah class ramming down 'Kashmir' and religion as a cause for 70 years, the priorities and nature of discourse in Pakistan media and ruling class could've been a lot different today.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This is all nonsense imo.

This 'concern' that Pakistanis show for Kashmir and Indian muslims is itself superficial in many ways. If Pak was a democracy for 70 years straight with a free press, instead of the toxic hybrid mix of the self-interested military-mullah class ramming down 'Kashmir' and religion as a cause for 70 years, the priorities and nature of discourse in Pakistan media and ruling class could've been a lot different today.

No Pakistanis would still care about Kashmiris and Indian Muslims, as we have Culture and Religion in common with them.

Only difference would be if Pakistan was a democracy there would be no support for militants or use of any violent method to liberate Kashmir.

 

[Madplayer]

Only difference would be if Pakistan was a democracy there would be no support for militants or use of any violent method to liberate Kashmir.

Democracies dont do that?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Democracies dont do that?

They do, but the majority of Pakistani people dont want their government to do that. Only support through peaceful methods.

 

[Madplayer]

They do, but the majority of Pakistani people dont want their government to do that. Only support through peaceful methods.

The majority of Pakistani people claim Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan and at the same time dont support any action to reclaim what is theirs and are content with providing lip service?

 

[Mamoon]

The Pakistani state does not care either. Kashmir is simply a tool for the Pakistani military to exert influence and remain the central power in the country.

The day the Kashmir issue is resolved will be the day they lose their influence.

The people living Pakistan don’t care either. Hardly anyone thinks or discusses the Kashmir issue in their daily lives.

People have their own problems and they don’t care about what happens in Kashmir.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The majority of Pakistani people claim Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan and at the same time dont support any action to reclaim what is theirs and are content with providing lip service?

99% of Pakistanis consider Kashmirs to be their people, as in Pakistanis.

But what can Pakistan do? They have tried multiple times to take the Valley in a war. They have tried via proxies which backfired. All they can do now is raise the issue diplomatically.

Best option for Pakistan in order to help Kashmiris is to try to get them a max autonomy within India. Like South Tyroll, or aland islands.

 

[Greenstorm]

They do, but the majority of Pakistani people dont want their government to do that. Only support through peaceful methods.

Thats not true. You can talk to almost any random person in bazaars of Lahore or Karachi, or someone in pinds of Punjab and they will tell you, in no uncertain terms, what our course of action should be in Kashmir.

 

[Madplayer]

99% of Pakistanis consider Kashmirs to be their people, as in Pakistanis.

But what can Pakistan do? They have tried multiple times to take the Valley in a war. They have tried via proxies which backfired. All they can do now is raise the issue diplomatically.

Best option for Pakistan in order to help Kashmiris is to try to get them a max autonomy within India. Like South Tyroll, or aland islands.

India is never going to give any kind of autonomy to Kashmir. I understand you dont want war. The problem for all peace lovers is that India has aspirations to occupy AJK and they have been openly talking about it for quite some time now. But lets see how things pan out.