Is there a possibility the Shia in Pakistan might become the German Jews of the 21st century?

[GLORY OF '92]

Yes there was always hatred and violence by both sides but now with the extreme right religious groups motivated by the governments weak surrender I think we have to be very careful.

Due to the uneducated masses hatred will spread very easily and I can see Shia being the new Ahmadi's within 10 years.

 

[King-Misbah]

No, they are a sizeable minority. I hope things improve in the future and everybody is treated better in shallah.

 

[j_kazmi]

I don’t really live in Pakistan so I can’t really tell you if this is possible.

But what I do know is that there’s quite a lot of Shias in Pakistan and they can’t really be bullied like other minorities because Shias are much bigger part of Pakistan when compared to other minorities like ahmadis.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

I know Shia are about 9% but they are quite spread out. Warning signs are there.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Jews in Germany were systematically attacked by the German ruling powers. Laws were passed to make Jews alien to German society.

No government or ruling power in Pakistan would do the same to the Shias or anyone else.

Totally wrong comparison.

 

[Syed1]

You are basing your opinion on the actions of 1% of society. Vast majority of Pakistanis live and work alongside Shias. Some even have inter-sect marriages. Its not as big of an issue as you are making it out to be.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Jews in Germany were systematically attacked by the German ruling powers. Laws were passed to make Jews alien to German society.

No government or ruling power in Pakistan would do the same to the Shias or anyone else.

Totally wrong comparison.

I know it's a very strong thing to imagine. But IMO the scenario is becoming increasingly possible.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

You are basing your opinion on the actions of 1% of society. Vast majority of Pakistanis live and work alongside Shias. Some even have inter-sect marriages. Its not as big of an issue as you are making it out to be.

Let's hope so.

 

[humzy]

I know it's a very strong thing to imagine. But IMO the scenario is becoming increasingly possible.

It was when I was there as a child, I wasn't even allowed to wear a black shalwar as my family were afraid people might mistake me for a Shia in a sunni area.

 

[Adil_94]

dont think anti Shia hatred will get that bad in Pakistan. Yes with rise of Wahhabi funded madrassas anti Shia hatred is spewed out a lot more. But it wont get to that level. Ahmadis In Pakistan are much more in a similar position to Jews in Germany pre WWII than Shias. The Bhutto-Zardaris are from a Shia background and a Shia can become a govt minister in the way Ahmadiyyas cant.

in some parts of the Middle East Shia are an endangered species.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I know it's a very strong thing to imagine. But IMO the scenario is becoming increasingly possible.

There are brainwashed extremists and 'terrorists'(foreign proxies) who are targetting minorities such as Shias, Ahmedis but remember they are also attacking Sufi's or even any average Pakistani. The vast majority of Pakistani's 99% see Shias as Muslims.

 

[yasir]

Why just talk about Shias, Qadanis are already treated on same line as Germans treated Jews...

First you declared them by constitution Non-Muslim, What business state has to define soembody’s Religion? then pass all kinds to law to further prescute them. This is death of democracy, govt in 1973 gave into Mulla’s very similar to what happen yesterday...

How can you make such laws?? - if somebody wants to call himself Muslim, it’s nobody business to tell him that he is not, even if he does not believe in Quran or Prophet or whatnot... there are dozens of sects in Islam, many religions have samething, state cannot take side constitutionally with any one of them, that is conflict of interest and beginning of preceutation of minorities...

This is what west had in 1800s, black is not equal to white...We have done exactly that, in the name of religion, my tribe is better than yours, we will make laws to declare you second rate citizen... Most people don’t realize what idols they are holding on to

 

[JaDed]

There are brainwashed extremists and 'terrorists'(foreign proxies) who are targetting minorities such as Shias, Ahmedis but remember they are also attacking Sufi's or even any average Pakistani. The vast majority of Pakistani's 99% see Shias as Muslims.

See you throwing this number often,would be good to give us an idea about how you came around with a census of that high a number?

 

[Pakistanian]

Shias are too wealthy and influential than ahmadis to ever take their place, in fact there are shia clerics that preach hatred towards Ahmadis too.

 

[Pakistanian]

See you throwing this number often,would be good to give us an idea about how you came around with a census of that high a number?

He's right though, most Sunni Pakistanis consder shias as Muslims, even Aga Khanis are considered Muslim according to the Amman message by the Imam of the Kaaba. Zardari and Jinnah are both shias yet their shia faith was never used against them. There arw many prominent shias in Pakistan that you would be surprised that they're shia

 

[Pakistanian]

The founding father of Pakistan, Jinnah is Shia and many Sunnis rever him, the Aga Khan has many charities and hospitals in Pakistan and most Pakistanis don't disrespect them ecen though many twelver shias don't even consider ismailis as Muslim.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

He's right though, most Sunni Pakistanis consder shias as Muslims, even Aga Khanis are considered Muslim according to the Amman message by the Imam of the Kaaba. Zardari and Jinnah are both shias yet their shia faith was never used against them. There arw many prominent shias in Pakistan that you would be surprised that they're shia

Agreed. I think OP is exaggerating the situation.

 

[Pakistanian]

Shias don't have it as good as sunnis but they certainly have it miles better than Hindus, Christians, and Ahmadis. There is no comparison whatsoever. What's odd is that you will rarely find any Pakistani Shias speak out against the Iranian regime yet you'll find many Pakistani Sunnis criticize Saudi Arabia and Arab countries, I feel like Shia Pakistanis need to renounce the ayatollahs the way many moderate sunnis are renouncing the Saudis.

 

[Pakpak]

You are basing your opinion on the actions of 1% of society. Vast majority of Pakistanis live and work alongside Shias. Some even have inter-sect marriages. Its not as big of an issue as you are making it out to be.

Lol at this thread. Zardari and PPP are all Shi'as and have ruled Pakistan multiple times. There is no danger of this imagined "genocide" barring isolated incidents

 

[Varun]

Whatever happens in Saudi Arabia usually finds its way to Pakistan rather speedily. Since the former seem to despise Iran at the moment - to the extent of collaborating with Israel to get rid of them - Pakistan better watch out for some targeted 'funding' in the coming years.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Lol at this thread. Zardari and PPP are all Shi'as and have ruled Pakistan multiple times. There is no danger of this imagined "genocide" barring isolated incidents

Complacency is dangerous.

 

[WebGuru]

They are at least 45 million alh-e-tashaee in Pakistan (second most in any country after Iran) so i don't see anything like that happening. We even had Shia PMs,COAS, CJ, Speaker.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Whatever happens in Saudi Arabia usually finds its way to Pakistan rather speedily. Since the former seem to despise Iran at the moment - to the extent of collaborating with Israel to get rid of them - Pakistan better watch out for some targeted 'funding' in the coming years.

I am hopeful that the Persians will show their hand more as the century wears on. Unlike the Saudis who we all accept are rather foolhardy and dumb, Iran will play the long game, and that will be with an eye on regaining the influence they have traditionally had in the subcontinent.

 

[the Great Khan]

I know it's a very strong thing to imagine. But IMO the scenario is becoming increasingly possible.

what are you basing this conclusion upon? also are you living in Pakistan at the moment? if not then I dont think your in any position to comment on this. And neither am I.

 

[yasir]

Best Scientist ever produced by not just Pakistan but entire Muslim world was a Qyadani Dr Abdul Salam, he was never recognized and valued in Pakistan because he was not a Kosher Muslim, by Law he was not even a Muslim...Hypocrisy of Pakistani text books and Govt public and private media consider him Muslim to win the brownie points of only Muslim Scientist who won Noble Prize, when every other Qyadani is consider Kafir(actually even worse the Kafir in many ways)....As you can see from recent events how much Pakistanis love to hate Qyadanis

 

[MenInG]

Seems that this is becoming an Ahmadi bashing thread which I will not allow. Lets discuss in a civilized manner.

If your posts have been deleted then they are probably because they are part of replies to some insensitive posts.

 

[DrSchultz]

They are at least 45 million alh-e-tashaee in Pakistan (second most in any country after Iran) so i don't see anything like that happening. We even had Shia PMs,COAS, CJ, Speaker.

I believe there are more shias in India so Pakistan is 3rd!

 

[King-Misbah]

I believe there are more shias in India so Pakistan is 3rd!

No, Pakistan is second after Iran.

 

[WebGuru]

I believe there are more shias in India so Pakistan is 3rd!

Indian estimate is 40m to 50m and Pakistan estimated shia population is 43m to 57m

 

[the Great Khan]

If Pakistan wants to become the next Syria then by all means hurt our Shia brethren.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Very poor thread

Pakistan as a country is home to millions of Shias who serve in the army,judiciary,Govt,media etc.

Whenever there is Muharram our Sunni majority security forces proudly protect our Shia brothers from terror.An example seen in very few Arab Muslim Majority countries like KSA,Oman etc.

Do you find any example of a sunni majority country that elected a Shia PM?
It has happened several times in Pakistan and we are proud of it.

 

[sshakir411]

Some next level delusional thinking here by OP. The Shia community has faced discrimination but to think they'll suffer what the Jews did in Germany is some next level paranoia. A small Shia rebel group like the Houthis is proving to be a handful for one of the extreme Sunni government in the world...there will never be a genocide against Shias. The comparison to Ahmadis is laughable...

 

[WebGuru]

There is a reason Pakistan Army for the first time said NO to Saudis when they asked for our help in Yemen because we don't want Shia blood on our hands when millions of them are part of our nation and saying YES there was going to make our country another battlefield for Saudi/Irani proxy wars. Gali Gali sunni shia fasaad hone thai abhi to kabhi kabhi koi event hote he

 

[MenInG]

Very poor thread

Pakistan as a country is home to millions of Shias who serve in the army,judiciary,Govt,media etc.

Whenever there is Muharram our Sunni majority security forces proudly protect our Shia brothers from terror.An example seen in very few Arab Muslim Majority countries like KSA,Oman etc.

Do you find any example of a sunni majority country that elected a Shia PM?
It has happened several times in Pakistan and we are proud of it.

Its a fair question.

 

[yasir]

Very poor thread

Pakistan as a country is home to millions of Shias who serve in the army,judiciary,Govt,media etc.

Whenever there is Muharram our Sunni majority security forces proudly protect our Shia brothers from terror.An example seen in very few Arab Muslim Majority countries like KSA,Oman etc.

Do you find any example of a sunni majority country that elected a Shia PM?
It has happened several times in Pakistan and we are proud of it.

Who was the Shia PM? NS/Benezir/Bhutto? - These are the only 3 PMs we had since 1970, two of them are have been killed long time ago... Rest of them never really had legitimate claim to the throne

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Who was the Shia PM? NS/Benezir/Bhutto? - These are the only 3 PMs we had since 1970, two of them are have been killed long time ago... Rest of them never really had legitimate claim to the throne

Benazir,Zardari,Yahya Khan etc

BB was killed on political grounds

Stop dragging sectarian problems into every thing

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Who was the Shia PM? NS/Benezir/Bhutto? - These are the only 3 PMs we had since 1970, two of them are have been killed long time ago... Rest of them never really had legitimate claim to the throne

Ok give me an example of a catholic president in the US? apart from Kennedy?

That is one in 200 years

20 percent are of Catholic faith

 

[yasir]

Benazir,Zardari,Yahya Khan etc

BB was killed on political grounds

Stop dragging sectarian problems into every thing

Benizar was from Shia Sect?? - Her Mom was from Iran and Shia, but that generally does not mean Daughter will be...Although Bhutto family may not really care about Shia or Sunni aspect of life. They were more secular ones, but still did she declare herself as Shia Muslim?

Looks more of a brownie points argument, she has practically nothing to do with being Shia, she suppressed her identity as Shia(if she ever had one).

 

[troodon]

Why is religion given so much importance in poor 3rd world countries when there are many burning issues that they need to immediately address?

I can never understand the mindset of Subcontinent people. You do not have clean drinking water, majority cannot eat 3 times a day, people die of pollution, disease and over population. But all these same people worry about is Religion and God.

Our priorities are in shambles. West realized this decades ago. They became free society and they prospered. We are still stuck in medieval times.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why is religion given so much importance in poor 3rd world countries when there are many burning issues that they need to immediately address?

I can never understand the mindset of Subcontinent people. You do not have clean drinking water, majority cannot eat 3 times a day, people die of pollution, disease and over population. But all these same people worry about is Religion and God.

Our priorities are in shambles. West realized this decades ago. They became free society and they prospered. We are still stuck in medieval times.

It is not your fault that you cannot understand our mindset. The ivory tower is too tall.

 

[Syed1]

Why is religion given so much importance in poor 3rd world countries when there are many burning issues that they need to immediately address?

I can never understand the mindset of Subcontinent people. You do not have clean drinking water, majority cannot eat 3 times a day, people die of pollution, disease and over population. But all these same people worry about is Religion and God.

Our priorities are in shambles. West realized this decades ago. They became free society and they prospered. We are still stuck in medieval times.

The reason they are poor is because of over-blown emphasis on religion. It is a chicken and egg situation.

When you are only living for the here-after you won't care much about the present and future on this world.


All rich nations are religiously neutral, secular or anti-religion

 

[Waseem]

We are making an assumption that recent events are due to religion, we will soon find out these are politically motivated. They formed a whole political party only due to one event "Mumtaz Qadri's hanging" and they got an opportunity to cash in just before elections.

I am more than confident they won't survive for too long, yes they will be much more stronger in 2018 but nothing beyond that.

As for Shias, i don't think domestic issue will pose any threat as long as we stay away from Iran-Saudi issues.

 

[RickyG]

I'm a little bit surprised that this realization is only setting in now. And on top of that there are still people who refuse to acknowledge persecutions against Shia people.

I think comparing Shias to German Jews is definitely a little bit over the top however you can't deny that Shia persecutions/target killings/bombings have been around for 30 years or so. They come and go in waves. Things got pretty bad 2-4 years ago especially for the Hazara people. People of Parachinar is another group that has been suffering for years because of their sect.

Also laughed at the poster that said 99% of Pakistanis consider Shias to be Muslims. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I'm a little bit surprised that this realization is only setting in now. And on top of that there are still people who refuse to acknowledge persecutions against Shia people.

I think comparing Shias to German Jews is definitely a little bit over the top however you can't deny that Shia persecutions/target killings/bombings have been around for 30 years or so. They come and go in waves. Things got pretty bad 2-4 years ago especially for the Hazara people. People of Parachinar is another group that has been suffering for years because of their sect.

Also laughed at the poster that said 99% of Pakistanis consider Shias to be Muslims. That couldn't be further from the truth.

This was me, instead of laughing, try to prove me wrong? Shias ARE Muslims, the Pakistani laws consider them to be and so do the people. You also failed to read the points raised, Sufis are also targeted in huge numbers in Pakistan and around the world such as the recent attack in Egypt.

Btw state your nationality, background and religion. Thanks

 

[Eagle_Eye]

What a preposterous thread conflating several issues. The op needs to read up on 1930s Germany and then give us some informed reason of why he thinks the way he does in the op.

Shias are Muslim and have represented every top position in Pakistan. The Shia-Sunni fight is propped by two outside forces, the average Pakistani has no issues. Those invested in by Saudi and Iran have vested interests in keeping it going, but thankfully they are a very very tiny minority. Unfortunately, a single or bunch of individuals can cause mass casualties, which we have seen in the past which can cause an illusion of open war, which it is not. In Punjab where most Shias reside, you rarely see such incidents.

 

[Pakistanian]

Fawad Khan, Ali Zafar, and Zeb Bangash are a few of the famous Pakistani celebrities that happen to be Shia, how many of us know that? Most Pakistanis could careless to differentiate between a Sunni or a Shia which is why a celebrity or a public figure being Shia or not doesn't matter.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

For a country whose founding father was a Shia, whose first law minister was a Hindu, whose first foreign minister and Nobel prise winners are both Ahmadis, whose very first martyrs were Christians, whose very first national anthem was written by a non-Muslim(its probably a rumour which may have some substance of truth), who elected the first female prime minister in the whole Islamic world, we are sure as hell going down the downward spiral.

 

[James]

From my understanding on this topic (limited) it seems to me that not Shias but Ahmadis are in by far the most vulnerable position in Pakistan. Numerous normally good posters on PP also seem to be rather “not bothered” about the plight of Ahmadis as well, which I think is very interesting and shows the power that religion can hold over the human mind.

 

[Snak3eye5]

From my understanding on this topic (limited) it seems to me that not Shias but Ahmadis are in by far the most vulnerable position in Pakistan. Numerous normally good posters on PP also seem to be rather “not bothered” about the plight of Ahmadis as well, which I think is very interesting and shows the power that religion can hold over the human mind.

This I agree with . We should be talking about the welfare of the other minorities like the Abmadis, Hindus, sikhs , christians who calls Pakistan home before worrying about Shias.
Does it bother no one that Pakistans nobel prize winner Abdus Salam's gravestone was defaced to remove the word Muslim ? This is in reality is what one needs to discuss and how to make lives of these minorities easier and safer....

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This I agree with . We should be talking about the welfare of the other minorities like the Abmadis, Hindus, sikhs , christians who calls Pakistan home before worrying about Shias.
Does it bother no one that Pakistans nobel prize winner Abdus Salam's gravestone was defaced to remove the word Muslim ? This is in reality is what one needs to discuss and how to make lives of these minorities easier and safer....

I don't think minorities like Hindus or Sikhs have the same problem as Ahmadis, and the reason is because they are happy to be seen as minorities. Ahmadis don't see themselves as minorities and see themselves as the true representatives of Muslims and I would assume consider the other Muslims as following the wrong path. A poster called LordJames wrote a good contribution on why they are rejected by orthodox Musims yesterday here:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...testers-reach-agreement&p=9519847#post9519847


Very difficult to see any resolution to this problem while religion still plays a major part in the constitution.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Fawad Khan, Ali Zafar, and Zeb Bangash are a few of the famous Pakistani celebrities that happen to be Shia, how many of us know that? Most Pakistanis could careless to differentiate between a Sunni or a Shia which is why a celebrity or a public figure being Shia or not doesn't matter.

Exactly this topic is useless

 

[ExpressPacer]

Even as a sympathizer of the community, for me to say that Shittes in Pakistan would become the German Jews would be me indulging in hyperbole. However, you never know, considering how bad things have gotten in Syria and Iraq, the crux of the war being this very reason; things look ominous.

The past has been bright. Numerous Presidents, Prime Ministers and Generals of the armed forces have been from the community. But with intolerance levels growing rapidly, to have a solidified disagreement would be casual. If anything, a massacre and general avoidance of the community is expected for sure.

 

[sshakir411]

I think the biggest misconception about the issue in the Middle East/Muslim world today is that the Shia-Sunni conflict has given rise to regional tensions and religious extremism. This is not true...instead it is the regional issues that have exacerbated the Shia-Sunni conflict.

 

[Alam_dar]

People are very naive.

In Iraq, even the shias were in majority, but the extremists killed several hundred thousands of Iraqi shias in suicide bombings.
Yes, after that Iraqi Shias also reacted and killed them, but it will not be possible in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, already the extremists have given total defeat to the so called Pakistani Shias. They are in numbers, but they are nothing as compared to the extremists who are strong and disciplined.

In fact, the extremists are so strong that they could even fight with Army.

Extremists are more stronger than Police and shias and Sunnies (sufi) combined. Only Army could face them in Pakistan.

 

[Pakistanian]

People are very naive.

In Iraq, even the shias were in majority, but the extremists killed several hundred thousands of Iraqi shias in suicide bombings.
Yes, after that Iraqi Shias also reacted and killed them, but it will not be possible in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, already the extremists have given total defeat to the so called Pakistani Shias. They are in numbers, but they are nothing as compared to the extremists who are strong and disciplined.

In fact, the extremists are so strong that they could even fight with Army.

Extremists are more stronger than Police and shias and Sunnies (sufi) combined. Only Army could face them in Pakistan.

Pakistan isn't Iraq, it has a far superior military and a relatively better government. Iraq is right between Iran and Saudi Arabia, that's why it's a constant battleground. Pakistan on the other hand neighbors Shia Iran which is like a regional power wouldn't let there be a Shiite purge in Pakistan.
Iran even uses Pakistani Shias to fight there wars in Syria, so it's unlikey that they wouldn't play a role in preventing any systematic persecution of shias in Pakistan.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

No minorities have problem in Pakistan except Ahmadis which is very controversial and deserves a separate thread.

Despite people black listing us and calling us conservative we have had more minority(non sunni) representatives in our Govt,Army,Judiciary,Media,Sports etc. than many Arab and other developed countries of the world.

Minorites constituted 3% of the population of West Pakistan in 1951 and it is still the same.The Media shows figures that includes East Pakistan that had major portion of Pakistani Hindus before 1971.Figures in Bangladesh may have changed but in West Pakistan they are the same.

We are the among the top ten countries with the largest Hindu populations exceeding 5 million now.

It is my greatest desire to see a non Muslim PM in Pakistan....considering our past that day might not be far

 

[junoon]

Indian estimate is 40m to 50m and Pakistan estimated shia population is 43m to 57m

This estimate seems a bit higher. Although there are no reliable statistics because Pakistani census does not have a question about which sect of islam the person follows.

According Cia factbook, 10% to 15% of Pakistanis are shia. If that is true then the Shia population in a country of 200 million would be 20m to 30m

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html

 

[saeedhk]

No minorities have problem in Pakistan except Ahmadis which is very controversial and deserves a separate thread.

Despite people black listing us and calling us conservative we have had more minority(non sunni) representatives in our Govt,Army,Judiciary,Media,Sports etc. than many Arab and other developed countries of the world.

Minorites constituted 3% of the population of West Pakistan in 1951 and it is still the same.The Media shows figures that includes East Pakistan that had major portion of Pakistani Hindus before 1971.Figures in Bangladesh may have changed but in West Pakistan they are the same.

We are the among the top ten countries with the largest Hindu populations exceeding 5 million now.

It is my greatest desire to see a non Muslim PM in Pakistan....considering our past that day might not be far

Not true. There has been a Shia genocide going on in Pakistan for the past two decades. In the last decade, 6000 to 7000 Shias have been murdered.

 

[Snak3eye5]

No minorities have problem in Pakistan except Ahmadis which is very controversial and deserves a separate thread.

Despite people black listing us and calling us conservative we have had more minority(non sunni) representatives in our Govt,Army,Judiciary,Media,Sports etc. than many Arab and other developed countries of the world.

Minorites constituted 3% of the population of West Pakistan in 1951 and it is still the same.The Media shows figures that includes East Pakistan that had major portion of Pakistani Hindus before 1971.Figures in Bangladesh may have changed but in West Pakistan they are the same.

We are the among the top ten countries with the largest Hindu populations exceeding 5 million now.

It is my greatest desire to see a non Muslim PM in Pakistan....considering our past that day might not be far

You do know that Pakistan constitution has a strict clause which will never allow a non Muslim Pm right ?

 

[ManFan]

You do know that Pakistan constitution has a strict clause which will never allow a non Muslim Pm right ?

Obviously, since it is an Islamic Republic. Though not much Islamic about the way it is being run.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

You do know that Pakistan constitution has a strict clause which will never allow a non Muslim Pm right ?

Yes...but who says that it cannot be amended?

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Not true. There has been a Shia genocide going on in Pakistan for the past two decades. In the last decade, 6000 to 7000 Shias have been murdered.

That was by the taliban...not the state of Pakistan

Taliban have also attacked Sunni Mosques,Mazars,Churches etc.
They do no represent the state..

 

[ManFan]

Yes...but who says that it cannot be amended?

Do you not see the trouble of having someone outside of the 96% population as their leader? It would be like appointing a Muslim as Head of State in India. Though even 20% of India's population is Muslim. Pakistan is much more skewed.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Do you not see the trouble of having someone outside of the 96% population as their leader? It would be like appointing a Muslim as Head of State in India. Though even 20% of India's population is Muslim. Pakistan is much more skewed.

In b4, Indians give you a lecture on how minorities in India have held important state positions.

 

[ManFan]

In b4, Indians give you a lecture on how minorities in India have held important state positions.

You mean like A.P.J. Abdul Kalam? The man was the president. We all know how much a president has power in India. Besides signing the Office of Profit Bill and hearing 21 mercy pleas, his POLITICAL achievements are not that of someone like Nehru. Its why technocracy only can never work. India however is a secular nation but Pakistan is not. What Pakistan has failed to do is 2 things.
1) Advocate free thinking, speech, scientific research, knowledge, push technology instead of agriculture
2) Strengthen internal governing affairs due to what someone on PP labelled as S.T.D ( Sexually Transmitted Democracy )

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Do you not see the trouble of having someone outside of the 96% population as their leader? It would be like appointing a Muslim as Head of State in India. Though even 20% of India's population is Muslim. Pakistan is much more skewed.

No it is not...atleast not in the new generation maybe in the 80s and 90s generation who have been brainswashed by Zia

 

[ManFan]

No it is not...atleast not in the new generation maybe in the 80s and 90s generation who have been brainswashed by Zia

Let me give you a different example. It would be like having a Muslim extremist as president of the United States. Far-fetched yes but when you have someone of the other side of the coin leading a group of people ( 96% ) that differ in ideals, beliefs, justice,morals, than that leader, its a recipe for disaster. This is not a matter of racism or bias, it is just fact. There was a thread not too long ago on TP+S of " Why has there never been a Muslim PM of India " or something of that nature. I as a Muslim said it was not right for there to be one. A person from the minority cannot lead the majority. 800 million > 200 million.

 

[Syed1]

Let me give you a different example. It would be like having a Muslim extremist as president of the United States. Far-fetched yes but when you have someone of the other side of the coin leading a group of people ( 96% ) that differ in ideals, beliefs, justice,morals, than that leader, its a recipe for disaster. This is not a matter of racism or bias, it is just fact. There was a thread not too long ago on TP+S of " Why has there never been a Muslim PM of India " or something of that nature. I as a Muslim said it was not right for there to be one. A person from the minority cannot lead the majority. 800 million > 200 million.

The leader of the NDP (third largest party in Canada) is a practicing Sikh (he has been popularly elected by the party members as their head). While Sikhs are a minuscule percentage of the population.


In truly democratic, secular countries it shouldn't matter what the religion of the person is. However, Pakistan is several centuries behind in this regard.

 

[ManFan]

The leader of the NDP (third largest party in Canada) is a practicing Sikh (he has been popularly elected by the party members as their head). While Sikhs are a minuscule percentage of the population.


In truly democratic, secular countries it shouldn't matter what the religion of the person is. However, Pakistan is several centuries behind in this regard.

When a Sikh becomes PM, than watch the outrage even in peaceful old Maple Land. There's a reason why every U.S. president has to swear his oath on the Bible. Trust me, this whole " secular democratic " notion is just a farce for greater control.

 

[maxamax]

Firing happened at my sector's central Shia mosque yester day (I-8, Islamabad). They're already being washed away. Although IB fellow was killed in that.