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Is there anyone capable of containing South Africa's power-hitting prowess in the ICC World Cup 2023?

kron

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Yes the Dutch managed to beat them but that when south africans were chasing.

If they bat first on flat pitches, can any bowling attack stop them?

Top bowling attacks in the world at the moment are :
SA India in no particular order
Followed by Australia who are a tad bit overrated and perhaps the kiwis.

Kiwis do have a pretty good attack but not for flat conditions. I am not sure if kiwi bowlers can do much when the bowling conditions are not conducive to swing bowling once the new ball effect wears out in particular.

Will be interesting to see if the Indians and kiwis can manage yo contain them provided SA bat first.
 
Why is that teams are so inflexible with their bowling? Look who opened the bowling for Netherlands against SA?
Netherlands opened with Aryan Dutt the off spinner. First change ACkermann. Another off spinner. Even in world T20, 2022 Netherlands were the smartest side i saw. Excellent strategies, Match ups. Fantastic to watch. THey did the same against SA.
But other guys fed seamers and got cartered around.

If you open with pace it helps them settle down easier
 
In 2011 world cup Watson as an opener was a threat. IN the quarter finals, Ashwin was suddenly brought into the side by MSD. Ashwin bowled 5 overs inside power play after opening the bowling. He took out Watson.
 
The pitch there is usually a sluggish one with slow/low turn but the ground dimensions are too small for such an iconic stadium. Not sure how this one will be.
No. That is not standard. It is generally a pretty good batting surface in ICC events. Been that way since that horrible 1996 world cup.
 
No. That is not standard. It is generally a pretty good batting surface in ICC events. Been that way since that horrible 1996 world cup.
You could be right, have not been following much of IPL or cricket, in general (for the last few years
). But my memories of Eden Gardens are usually from Gautam Gambhir's KKR days (hence could be biased on slow low sluggish pitch). Still, the ground dimensions are wankhedishque, which means extremely small boundaries on a few angles.
 
Why is that teams are so inflexible with their bowling? Look who opened the bowling for Netherlands against SA?
Netherlands opened with Aryan Dutt the off spinner. First change ACkermann. Another off spinner. Even in world T20, 2022 Netherlands were the smartest side i saw. Excellent strategies, Match ups. Fantastic to watch. THey did the same against SA.
But other guys fed seamers and got cartered around.

If you open with pace it helps them settle down easier
India bowling attack will stop SA. There is no way sa is scoring 320 plus against ind. They can actually maybe get in Ashwin instead of a pacer. SA is tradweak against quality spin. Still think SA batting is a bit overrated and they will be found out by the ind bowling
 
You could be right, have not been following much of IPL or cricket, in general (for the last few years
). But my memories of Eden Gardens are usually from Gautam Gambhir's KKR days (hence could be biased on slow low sluggish pitch). Still, the ground dimensions are wankhedishque, which means extremely small boundaries on a few angles.
Rohit is a beast at Eden Gardens.
 
SA's batting will be tested against Ind. They've always found 1/2 weak links in the opposition attack that they can start attacking around the 30-35 over mark. Ind bowling attack, if shami is included regularly, doesn't have visible loopholes.

Their bowling has looked more potent so far, because they've bowled 2nd 3 times now, in Mumbai and Lucknow. Both are red soil pitches which have very good carry. In Mumbai there's always swing while bowling 2nd due to the see breeze. These have given a false sense of perception for the S. Africans.

They're yet to bowl on a very flat / turning surface during the evenings. Maharaj / Shamsi are not going to create trouble for our/NZ batsmen. Coetzee is very much untested on such pitches. Rabada is less than quarter the bowler he is, on such pitches. We've seen it multiple times in ipl.
 
Even on a flat track, Indian bowlers can stop them (provided the ground has decent-sized dimensions, such as Lucknow's or Ahmedabad's).
Yea. Big fan of bumrah and siraj. Proper quality world class bowlers. Exciting to watch too.

That kid tyagi and prasidh looks good in their reserves too. Wonder why prasidh never plays.
 
Yea. Big fan of bumrah and siraj. Proper quality world class bowlers. Exciting to watch too.

That kid tyagi and prasidh looks good in their reserves too. Wonder why prasidh never plays.

Tyagi will remain kid forever. The guy is extremely injury prone. Won't be debuting anytime soon. Prasidh is also 28.
 
They are definitely playing great cricket at the moment but teams like India and New Zealand would likely to be a tough oppositions for them. Also, Australia look to be picking their game with every match and they way they have played in the last 3 matches, they would be a strong opposition for any team.
 
Tyagi will remain kid forever. The guy is extremely injury prone. Won't be debuting anytime soon. Prasidh is also 28.
That's true. Also he isn't showing any improvement in his performance. But then he has got pace and if he bowls even a couple of good spells in the IPL then the fanboys will go crazy and we have some "joshile fans" on this forum who would want everyone to believe how he is being destroyed by our management. The same fans had hyped up Saini and Umran.
 
Who knows. Very difficult to contain them on flat pitches. It’s probably the most destructive 4-5-6 in the history of cricket and you have Jansen coming in at 7 who has a 35 average @ 118 SR. Absolutely absurd. Not to mention, you have QDK opening with van der Dussen at 3 who both can accelerate like crazy.

Just imagine if ABD had came a few years later instead.

A top 7 of:
1) QDK
2) van der Dussen
3) ABD
4) Markram
5) Klaasen
6) Miller
7) Jansen

They may already be the most destructive batting lineup ever, but that would’ve been undebatable. Dewald Brevis hasn’t even made his ODI debut yet!!!
 
INDIA. below is a scorecard of South Africa's tour to India when Indian C team defeated them 2-1.


Not sure not will be easy to hit 400 against this Indian bowling attack.
That was before this team found its form and started clicking together though. Don’t forget they badly lost the first 2 ODIs against Australia right before the World Cup and then dominated the next 3 and have not looked back since.

Will be a good battle for sure though.
 
I don't think this will last too long. I would like to see SA not giving up when chasing. You are not always going to bat first and put 350 plus.
 
SA's batting will be tested against Ind. They've always found 1/2 weak links in the opposition attack that they can start attacking around the 30-35 over mark. Ind bowling attack, if shami is included regularly, doesn't have visible loopholes.

Their bowling has looked more potent so far, because they've bowled 2nd 3 times now, in Mumbai and Lucknow. Both are red soil pitches which have very good carry. In Mumbai there's always swing while bowling 2nd due to the see breeze. These have given a false sense of perception for the S. Africans.

They're yet to bowl on a very flat / turning surface during the evenings. Maharaj / Shamsi are not going to create trouble for our/NZ batsmen. Coetzee is very much untested on such pitches. Rabada is less than quarter the bowler he is, on such pitches. We've seen it multiple times in ipl.

You're underestimating Maharaj. He's one of the best finger spinners in this tournament. Will be handful on a spinning track. But then again, he's just one bowler. So, India will definitely have the upper hand in the contest b/w these two.
 
I don't think this will last too long. I would like to see SA not giving up when chasing. You are not always going to bat first and put 350 plus.

That's true and that's the only visible Achille's heel of this SA side. They just put too much pressure on themselves when batting second.
 
You're underestimating Maharaj. He's one of the best finger spinners in this tournament. Will be handful on a spinning track. But then again, he's just one bowler. So, India will definitely have the upper hand in the contest b/w these two.
I understand your point. But Maharaj has poor record against India, esply in India. He has consistently failed even on good turning tracks against us across formats. Either he's massively underachieved for his talent or maybe our batsmen have played him well. On bouncier decks, SA will have advantage. On turning decks it'll be India. On flat decks, I'd put India slightly ahead of South Africa as I believe our bowling attack maybe slightly superior and varied to theirs on such decks.
 
The thing is that even if Pakistan beats South Africa, South Africa could still go on and win the World Cup.
 
That was before this team found its form and started clicking together though. Don’t forget they badly lost the first 2 ODIs against Australia right before the World Cup and then dominated the next 3 and have not looked back since.

Will be a good battle for sure though.
I didn't say they will not post a huge score against India but said it will not be easy. It will exciting to see the might SA batsmen against the crafty Indian bowlers.
 
India they going to smash every team that comes they way to glory and lifting the cup
 
Playing good cricket ATM.

If Aus beat us on Saturday, we will likely be playing for 4th and that might be better.

I was thinking about it for a while and how we could end up playing SA in a 2nd v 3rd situation and I wasn't too confident of our chances.

India are our best chance of making the final.

SA when they click are really tough.
 
I don't have the stats (not sure where/when I've seen this on TV) but I believe Indian bowlers (both pacers/spinners) are the ones who top the list when it comes to a high percentage of wicket-to-wicket bowling in this tournament. This means even on a flat track; our bowlers will be tough to handle for an extended period of time by hitters. So, I repeat what I've said earlier our current crop of bowers is more than capable of containing the big-hitting SAffers even on a flat track.
 
Key is Kok - guy is frighteningly good. They have other hitters, but this guy is different, for that he can hit boundaries against perfectly good balls. Problem with QdK is he has so many shots that he can concede 4/5 dots, then hit a boundary of a good ball and once set, he’ll not get out unlike other hitters. He has like 17/18 hundreds in win and many of those chasing - SAF have chased 350+ total three times during his time if I can recall correctly, every time he hit a hundred for below 75 balls. He gives me that hope less feeling of bowling to peak Lara - destructive, but unmovable.

Dutch team won that game as they took him out quickly - that’s the only way to stop SAF’s explosive batting, particularly if they are batting first without any mental blocks. It’s quite understandable actually- Bavuma is specialist captain, Rassi can’t play spin, Markham, Reeza, Miller, Klassen, Jansen all are explosive hitter but vulnerable as well - this guy gels the innings, & he does that at 100+ SR!!!

Sadly, a wrong headed genius, could have made the all time ODI XI as opener/WK, but lost his hunger for greatness - still he’ll be my opener over Gilchrist, if he wins the cup this time.

Get Kok early and somehow bring two spinners immediately when Klassen comes to bat - SAF’s batting will crumble, even batting first.
 
SA's batting will be tested against Ind. They've always found 1/2 weak links in the opposition attack that they can start attacking around the 30-35 over mark. Ind bowling attack, if shami is included regularly, doesn't have visible loopholes.

Their bowling has looked more potent so far, because they've bowled 2nd 3 times now, in Mumbai and Lucknow. Both are red soil pitches which have very good carry. In Mumbai there's always swing while bowling 2nd due to the see breeze. These have given a false sense of perception for the S. Africans.

They're yet to bowl on a very flat / turning surface during the evenings. Maharaj / Shamsi are not going to create trouble for our/NZ batsmen. Coetzee is very much untested on such pitches. Rabada is less than quarter the bowler he is, on such pitches. We've seen it multiple times in ipl.
Yeah the ind bowling attack is really good ! And even if SA bat 1st they will be restricted. Plus they play spin badly and Kuldeep will be a handful.. their bowling has defended well just because of the massive scoreboard pressure. Dont think they can defend 260-270..
 
India they going to smash every team that comes they way to glory and lifting the cup
Man Ind will be good in the league phase but come KO they give palpitations to their supporters. Ind is at a stage in world cricket now where they are so good that they will qualify for sf in any ICC tournament.. From the sf onwards has been our issue! 🙂
 
Man Ind will be good in the league phase but come KO they give palpitations to their supporters. Ind is at a stage in world cricket now where they are so good that they will qualify for sf in any ICC tournament.. From the sf onwards has been our issue! 🙂
This is India’s cup to lose. They are head and shoulders above every team in this World Cup and I think will win this World Cup quite easily. Bumrah, Rohit and Kohli seem unstoppable. They are freak of nature players. Generational talent. Could go unbeaten all the way they that good
 
This is India’s cup to lose. They are head and shoulders above every team in this World Cup and I think will win this World Cup quite easily. Bumrah, Rohit and Kohli seem unstoppable. They are freak of nature players. Generational talent. Could go unbeaten all the way they that good
We shall see. I think they have to lose one game just to avoid law of averages.

Long tournament.

If sa win toss and bat big on a absolute patta. 350 then they will beat India. But if india bat first and post total on a flat deck then good luck.
Under lights it's hard to see though? So maybe that is the chance SA need to take advantage of.
 
Best I can say is that I believe that we (India) have a high potential to do it with our bowling; however it isn’t a dead certainty and on the given day they it could go the other way.
 
Van der Dussan loves bashing pakistan for fun.

I am surprised how well klassen has come out to be. Not very good when he made his debut, but the guy is in beast form.
 
Key is Kok - guy is frighteningly good. They have other hitters, but this guy is different, for that he can hit boundaries against perfectly good balls. Problem with QdK is he has so many shots that he can concede 4/5 dots, then hit a boundary of a good ball and once set, he’ll not get out unlike other hitters. He has like 17/18 hundreds in win and many of those chasing - SAF have chased 350+ total three times during his time if I can recall correctly, every time he hit a hundred for below 75 balls. He gives me that hope less feeling of bowling to peak Lara - destructive, but unmovable.

Dutch team won that game as they took him out quickly - that’s the only way to stop SAF’s explosive batting, particularly if they are batting first without any mental blocks. It’s quite understandable actually- Bavuma is specialist captain, Rassi can’t play spin, Markham, Reeza, Miller, Klassen, Jansen all are explosive hitter but vulnerable as well - this guy gels the innings, & he does that at 100+ SR!!!

Sadly, a wrong headed genius, could have made the all time ODI XI as opener/WK, but lost his hunger for greatness - still he’ll be my opener over Gilchrist, if he wins the cup this time.

Get Kok early and somehow bring two spinners immediately when Klassen comes to bat - SAF’s batting will crumble, even batting first.
QDK’s inst bio reads: “An average cricketer .. but atleast a better fisherman”

He is probably the most talented individual and extremely athletic but I don’t know how I feel about him in pressure situations, he couldn’t even take IPL crowd pressure..
Gives me ABDV vibes
 
This is India’s cup to lose. They are head and shoulders above every team in this World Cup and I think will win this World Cup quite easily. Bumrah, Rohit and Kohli seem unstoppable. They are freak of nature players. Generational talent. Could go unbeaten all the way they that good
Problem for India could be peaking too early and not facing any adversary.

Can easily see them going unbeaten in group stage and being knocked out in the semis when the other teams lift their game for the KO games.
 
Van der Dussan loves bashing pakistan for fun.

I am surprised how well klassen has come out to be. Not very good when he made his debut, but the guy is in beast form.
Klassen is one guy that gets me worried. Klassen vs Kuldeep could go either way. In the past Klassen has overall struggled against our spinners but has also bashed them on his day.
 
Klassen is one guy that gets me worried. Klassen vs Kuldeep could go either way. In the past Klassen has overall struggled against our spinners but has also bashed them on his day.
Kuldeep will get him. Kuldeep is just class, only NZ knew how to play him and even than the guy stole 2 wickets.

I still dont get from where Klassen emerged, the guy wasnt really good when he started.

Dussen is someone Pakistan struggles. We still dont know how to take his wicket.
 
As a PCT fan, I hope Pakistani bowlers can do this tomorrow. Our bowlers as a unit hasn't performed in this World Cup but they are certainly capable of doing this as they have done it against top teams in the past.
 
QDK’s inst bio reads: “An average cricketer .. but atleast a better fisherman”

He is probably the most talented individual and extremely athletic but I don’t know how I feel about him in pressure situations, he couldn’t even take IPL crowd pressure..
Gives me ABDV vibes
He has changed lot. You see, Miraz is excellent with new ball & Shakib brought him specifically for Kok - for first 6 overs, Miraz went for 15 in PP with a wicket & QdK didn’t attack him even once.

This is the matured QdK - 5 years earlier, I am sure he would have charged down to put Miraz out of attack - could have worked, but could have been out as well. Not now, not this QdK - he even conceded a maiden as in PP. If you are to get him out, it has to be a good ball &/or great catch.
 
Kuldeep will get him. Kuldeep is just class, only NZ knew how to play him and even than the guy stole 2 wickets.

I still dont get from where Klassen emerged, the guy wasnt really good when he started.

Dussen is someone Pakistan struggles. We still dont know how to take his wicket.
He announced himself during peak Kul+ cha days. kuldeep/Chahal. They were running riot at that time. He came out of nowhere and smashed Chahal for 64 runs in 4 overs. Then did it again. That is when he got everyone's attention. This IPL season he played on a difficult turning track and made 100 taking on spinners. Everyone agreed that he was one of the best player of spin in the world.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/cricke...trailblazing-century-6466488cc901756a8ba6f69a
 
Could tomorrow be the day when Pakistan become that team - to stop SA?!
 
Could tomorrow be the day when Pakistan become that team - to stop SA?!
But do they have the bowlers: SSA is not able to pick initial wickets, Rauf is being carted everywhre, Hasan Ali is unfit and not available, Shadab and Usama are awful, Wasim Jr has not been tested. But knowing the unpredictability of Pakistan we never know. Maybe they are surprise with a miraculous performance. But common sense says its not gonna happen.
 
Temba Bavuma in his presser today:

"I saw a comment that described Pakistan as mercurial. I had to Google the word, but it spoke about how a team can be good one day and not so good the other day. So, we want to make sure that when they're good, we are so good as well."
 
This affirmative action pick Bavuma needs to stay injured. Markram has been a great captain. Also Reza is much better than tuk tuk Bavuma
 
This affirmative action pick Bavuma needs to stay injured. Markram has been a great captain. Also Reza is much better than tuk tuk Bavuma
As per cricinfo its confirmed that Bavuma is returning tomorrow. To be fair to him he has scored heaving in ODIs this year.
 
As per cricinfo its confirmed that Bavuma is returning tomorrow. To be fair to him he has scored heaving in ODIs this year.
He is too slow. His role is to ensure he stays on the wicket when others fall. He has no role on batting tracks. And when the chips were down against Ned, he flopped
 
Kuldeep will get him. Kuldeep is just class, only NZ knew how to play him and even than the guy stole 2 wickets.

I still dont get from where Klassen emerged, the guy wasnt really good when he started.

Dussen is someone Pakistan struggles. We still dont know how to take his wicket.
Loldeep should not play on flat tracks. He will get blasted.
 
Loldeep should not play on flat tracks. He will get blasted.

You ahve to take a lot of risk against him. IT won't always come off like it did for Mitchell> Same Mitchell was trapped infront being unable to read Kuldeep. Only reason he got away because there was zero turn. So he could hit through the line even with toe end. He still created a chance against him. That is the strength of leggies. They can create chances in the same match they go for runs unlike finger spinners.
 
You ahve to take a lot of risk against him. IT won't always come off like it did for Mitchell> Same Mitchell was trapped infront being unable to read Kuldeep. Only reason he got away because there was zero turn. So he could hit through the line even with toe end. He still created a chance against him. That is the strength of leggies. They can create chances in the same match they go for runs unlike finger spinners.
True my opinion is it leaves indian tail light in batting. Someone has to be dropped. Number 8 should be able to bat.

India needs to make a decision around thakur or shami.
Play axar at 8 or ashwin.

Balance
 
270 is not a huge target to defend against the inform South African batter. It will be huge task for the bowlers.
 
He has changed lot. You see, Miraz is excellent with new ball & Shakib brought him specifically for Kok - for first 6 overs, Miraz went for 15 in PP with a wicket & QdK didn’t attack him even once.

This is the matured QdK - 5 years earlier, I am sure he would have charged down to put Miraz out of attack - could have worked, but could have been out as well. Not now, not this QdK - he even conceded a maiden as in PP. If you are to get him out, it has to be a good ball &/or great catch.
Did that exact mistake which he used to do before.
 
I like the balance of their top 6, their approach and the way they target certain bowlers.

Add to this the likes of Jansen who is no mug with the bat either.
 
I don't have the stats (not sure where/when I've seen this on TV) but I believe Indian bowlers (both pacers/spinners) are the ones who top the list when it comes to a high percentage of wicket-to-wicket bowling in this tournament. This means even on a flat track; our bowlers will be tough to handle for an extended period of time by hitters. So, I repeat what I've said earlier our current crop of bowers is more than capable of containing the big-hitting SAffers even on a flat track.
I repeat, our bowlers are too good for any team even on a flat deck.
 
The pitch there, is usually a sluggish one with slow/low turn but the ground dimensions are too small for such an iconic stadium. Not sure how this one will be.
Said this much before a game was played in Eden gardens this WC👍🏻😊
I don't have the stats (not sure where/when I've seen this on TV) but I believe Indian bowlers (both pacers/spinners) are the ones who top the list when it comes to a high percentage of wicket-to-wicket bowling in this tournament. This means even on a flat track; our bowlers will be tough to handle for an extended period of time by hitters. So, I repeat what I've said earlier our current crop of bowers is more than capable of containing the big-hitting SAffers even on a flat track.
I told this as well😅✌🏻
 
Seems that the toss coin is SA's kryptonite
Gear shifting problem. They don't seamlessly shift gear up and down which is very vital in chasing totals as it enables you to play percentage cricket. Markram's daft shot against Pakistan is a case in point. They were walking towards target. Out of the blue played a shot that would match associate level player. In a way they can learn from Afghanistan who orchestrated two chases flawlessly.
 
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