Is this the worst Pakistan ODI side of all time?

[Nikhil_cric]

11 match losing streak. 3 wins and 22 losses against top 8 sides since CT. Lost a warm-up game to Afghanistan as well. Thoughts?

 

[Ronaldo7]

11-5= 6
So we are technically on a 6 match losing streak with this our main team.
So no, it is not the worst pak team.
2015 was a lot worse.

 

[hashimafzal]

2015 was bad, the team that Azhar Ali had was also pretty garbage

 

[ali2220]

2015 was bad, the team that Azhar Ali had was also pretty garbage

Agreed, this team is playing very poorly, otherwise its capable of producing decent results.

 

[gazza619]

Yes it is.

I am saying this. The records are saying this.

 

[topspin]

No other teams have just improved more. Misbah's team was far worse, as evident from the team's showing in the 2013 CT, when they had the likes of Imran Farhat and a raw Umar Amin. No wonder the side lost every single game

We have the worst bowling coaches because we have Azhar Mahmood (God help our pacers) and no spin coach.

We also have a selector who has no guts to try and out new players, but is more interested of connecting the players with Moulana Tariq Jameel.

The current ODI skipper may not be Pakistan's worst ODI captain of all time, but he has the mannerisms of a street cricketer.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

11 match losing streak. 3 wins and 22 losses against top 8 sides since CT. Lost a warm-up game to Afghanistan as well. Thoughts?

2007-2015 had the worst teams

Ruined my childhood

 

[Zaz]

No theres been a lot worse

For eg I remember in the late 90s we had both rashid latif and moin khan playing in the same x1

Unfortunately at the moment one or the other discipline isnt clicking If the batting is the bowling isnt and if the bowling is the batting isnt

On paper its decent It just needs to start performing better

 

[Mean&Green]

The Azhar Ali one that toured Bangladesh was the worst

 

[moghul]

Worst captain
Worst Selector
and worst team.

 

[Hasan123]

Yes it was one of the worst. Sarfraz as captain. Faheem as a all rounder before being dropped. Imad and Shadab as specialist spinners , lack of new ball quality,Hafeez and Malik as middle order stalwarts apparently.

This is one rubbish team , you have very low standards if you think this isn't in the conversation for 1 of the worst teams.

 

[Rana]

This is a good side,

Toothless bowlers.

 

[Cric1234]

Misbah CT 2013 friend backing delight was worse in the end they were out of form aswell.

 

[muqarrab]

2003 post world side that went to sharjah and england was the worst

 

[PakLFC]

Most fans won't remember all Pak one day sides. There must have been worse ones over the years.

 

[j_kazmi]

This team is better than the way they’ve been performing.

They’re not great but have the potential to be pretty good. Our top order which consists of Fakhar, Imam, Babar and Haris is the best top four we’ve had in over a decade now.

I really hope they don’t drop Haris in favour of Shoaib next match.

 

[Mirpur express]

No in fact it’s Good side but the rest are evolving/adapting quicker specially our bowling which has been clueless

 

[Usman Chadda]

It looks pretty bad, because nothing is working for them right now.

Some of us have lived through that horrendous 2012-2015 period. We were so bad, didn't even feel like watching cricket back then. 2015WC has to be the most embarrassing team we have ever put out in a major tournament, although this team might end up having the honors for the worst performance

 

[NoBallZombie]

I dont think it is the lack of skills. We have had sides previously who seriously lacked the skills. It is just that the whole team is mentally inept. They do not have the fight in them, they get easily demoralized. The captain leads them from the front in this regard.

 

[Snowflake]

Not even close.

 

[JibranAnsari]

There is no enforcer in the team , batting is bland and bowling is downright atrocious.

 

[CricFan2012]

Not even close.

This.

You should take a look at that dashing Champions trophy 2013 team, Asad, Kamran, Jamshed, Misbah, they still couldn't do much despite having cheat codes on, aka Ajmal+Hafeez.

Our team right now is probably one of the best we've had, it's just unfortunate that Pakistan cricket is backwards, we basically invested years into Faheem only to drop him, invest in Shinwari while getting good results and dropping him, didn't groom a proper off spinner and still relying on Hafeez's cheating, these type of things prevent us from achieving way better results.

Our bowlers have also lost their mojo or they can't manage these conditions.

 

[CricFan2012]

This team is better than the way they’ve been performing.

They’re not great but have the potential to be pretty good. Our top order which consists of Fakhar, Imam, Babar and Haris is the best top four we’ve had in over a decade now.

I really hope they don’t drop Haris in favour of Shoaib next match.

That top 4 looks like the best we've ever had.

Babar has the potential to become our best ever batsman, Harris definitely top 5.

 

[Mamoon]

Bowling wise, definitely, and mainly because of Shadab. Never in our history have we ever had a first-choice spinner as bad as him. In terms of batting it is comfortably better than the Misbah era sides. Babar and Imam are better ODI batsmen than anyone since the MoYo and Inzamam era.

Nonetheless, it doesn't matter because it is all relative - the gap between this team and the best teams in the world is humongous and that is the main issue.

 

[hur rizvi]

I still think it’s better than 2015 team which was our worst World Cup team ever. It’s just that they have lost so much confidence that they are not playing even remotely close to their full potential

 

[QalandarFan]

No other teams have just improved more. Misbah's team was far worse, as evident from the team's showing in the 2013 CT, when they had the likes of Imran Farhat and a raw Umar Amin. No wonder the side lost every single game

We have the worst bowling coaches because we have Azhar Mahmood (God help our pacers) and no spin coach.

We also have a selector who has no guts to try and out new players, but is more interested of connecting the players with Moulana Tariq Jameel.

The current ODI skipper may not be Pakistan's worst ODI captain of all time, but he has the mannerisms of a street cricketer.

I agree with all of this, along with the fact that some players like Babar, Fakhar, etc are not performing up to their potential. They are much better than the 2013 side you mentioned, and a lot other ODI sides we've had in the past 6/7 years. It's just a matter of getting the right coaches, selectors, and players performing to their potential. Also a new captain is needed and will be put in after the WC thankfully. Even if we win this CWC, I'm sure we can all agree Sarfraz needs to be replaced as captain.

 

[IAJ]

I don’t think it’s about how bad the current team is compared to previous editions. The main issue is that the rest of the World have improved vastly.

We are still banking on «talents» whereas the rest have adopted modern day techniques of the bussiness.

 

[hur rizvi]

Bowling wise, definitely, and mainly because of Shadab. Never in our history have we ever had a first-choice spinner as bad as him. In terms of batting it is comfortably better than the Misbah era sides. Babar and Imam are better ODI batsmen than anyone since the MoYo and Inzamam era.

Nonetheless, it doesn't matter because it is all relative - the gap between this team and the best teams in the world is humongous and that is the main issue.

Actually fast bowling is also better than 2015. It’s just that Sohail khan, rahat and Wahab were able to raise their game and Afridi was well past his good bowling days in 2015. Hafeez was not in the team, Ajmal was banned

 

[QalandarFan]

Bowling wise, definitely, and mainly because of Shadab. Never in our history have we ever had a first-choice spinner as bad as him. In terms of batting it is comfortably better than the Misbah era sides. Babar and Imam are better ODI batsmen than anyone since the MoYo and Inzamam era.

Nonetheless, it doesn't matter because it is all relative - the gap between this team and the best teams in the world is humongous and that is the main issue.

Also mainly because guys like Arthur and Inzi refuse to select another spinner. The only other spinner they have tried to groom apart from Shadab and Imad is Bilal.

I'm sure guys like Gohar, Umer, Ashgar, Irfan, and Usama would do better than our current "spinners." I don't mind Shadab in the team but he is just not good enough to be your main spinner yet. If they only they stuck with Gohar after that England series in 2015, I feel we would have had a proper wicket taking spinner in our side. A bowling tandem of Shadab and Gohar could of been lethal by now.

 

[Mamoon]

Actually fast bowling is also better than 2015. It’s just that Sohail khan, rahat and Wahab were able to raise their game and Afridi was well past his good bowling days in 2015. Hafeez was not in the team, Ajmal was banned

Some of our fast bowling units were worse in the past, but they still had better frontline spinner(s) than Shadab.

 

[hur rizvi]

Also mainly because guys like Arthur and Inzi refuse to select another spinner. The only other spinner they have tried to groom apart from Shadab and Imad is Bilal.

I'm sure guys like Gohar, Umer, Ashgar, Irfan, and Usama would do better than our current "spinners." I don't mind Shadab in the team but he is just not good enough to be your main spinner yet. If they only they stuck with Gohar after that England series in 2015, I feel we would have had a proper wicket taking spinner in our side. A bowling tandem of Shadab and Gohar could of been lethal by now.

Not giving gohar a good run was pathetic. He didn’t bowl badly at all against England

I rate him at least on par with imad wasim even as lower order bat

 

[hur rizvi]

Some of our fast bowling units were worse in the past, but they still had better frontline spinner(s) than Shadab.

In 2015 our spin was in pretty bad shape. Pacers gave some respectability

I don’t remember Afridis stats in 2015 WC but he was completely ineffective from my recollection

 

[Mamoon]

Also mainly because guys like Arthur and Inzi refuse to select another spinner. The only other spinner they have tried to groom apart from Shadab and Imad is Bilal.

I'm sure guys like Gohar, Umer, Ashgar, Irfan, and Usama would do better than our current "spinners." I don't mind Shadab in the team but he is just not good enough to be your main spinner yet. If they only they stuck with Gohar after that England series in 2015, I feel we would have had a proper wicket taking spinner in our side. A bowling tandem of Shadab and Gohar could of been lethal by now.

Arthur has an all-rounder syndrome. High quality all-rounders are a luxury, but low quality all-rounders are cancerous. They take up a spot without contributing in either disciple, and the team would always be better off with a specialist in their place.

They are some decent spinners in our ranks at the moment and they are all better than Shadab. Between Shadab and Imad, I actually prefer the latter because his batting is relatively better and he can score quickly in the death. His main problem is that he tries to be too cheeky - playing unorthodox shots is not his strength - he needs to stick to the way he batted in England in 2016 and South Africa earlier this year.

Shadab is extremely overrated. A glorified tail-ender who strikes at 65 in ODIs and averages almost 40 with the ball against non-minnows. He is in the team for show off only.

 

[Mamoon]

In 2015 our spin was in pretty bad shape. Pacers gave some respectability

I don’t remember Afridis stats in 2015 WC but he was completely ineffective from my recollection

2015 World Cup in particular was a nightmare. Definitely the worst World Cup squad ever.

 

[QalandarFan]

Not giving gohar a good run was pathetic. He didn’t bowl badly at all against England

I rate him at least on par with imad wasim even as lower order bat

He's a much much better bowler than Imad Wasim. You can't even compare him to Imad because Zafar's actually a spinner!

 

[hur rizvi]

He's a much much better bowler than Imad Wasim. You can't even compare him to Imad because Zafar's actually a spinner!

Agree

Zafar or Asghar atleast one of them should have been groomed by now

 

[Ronaldo7]

Agree

Zafar or Asghar atleast one of them should have been groomed by now

It's still not too late. Gohar is only 24 years old and asghar's only 20

 

[hur rizvi]

It's still not too late. Gohar is only 24 years old and asghar's only 20

Yup hopefully they get a run because even in tests yasir won’t be there for long.

 

[hur rizvi]

Umer khan too. He is also a potential option

 

[QalandarFan]

Arthur has an all-rounder syndrome. High quality all-rounders are a luxury, but low quality all-rounders are cancerous. They take up a spot without contributing in either disciple, and the team would always be better off with a specialist in their place.

They are some decent spinners in our ranks at the moment and they are all better than Shadab. Between Shadab and Imad, I actually prefer the latter because his batting is relatively better and he can score quickly in the death. His main problem is that he tries to be too cheeky - playing unorthodox shots is not his strength - he needs to stick to the way he batted in England in 2016 and South Africa earlier this year.

Shadab is extremely overrated. A glorified tail-ender who strikes at 65 in ODIs and averages almost 40 with the ball against non-minnows. He is in the team for show off only.

I agree look at India they have the worst tail in World Cricket in the past few years. However, does it matter? No because everyone does their job very well they moved on from All-Rounders like Ashwin and Jadeja (Well kind of) and in place brought in guys like Kuldeep and Chahal and look at the results.

It is beyond me how we forced a guy like Faheem to be our next Abdul Razzaq for 2 years. It is beyond me how he was re selected after that SA Tour. It goes to show how our selectors are so PSL oriented, national performances go out the window. The PSL is the be all end all. Some of our best cricketers like Babar, Fakhar, Imam, and Afridi didn't even come from the PSL.

I can't wait for the day Arthur and Inzi are fired, right now everybody is talking about ODI's rightfully so but the thing that gets me going the most is what these guys have done to our test team. Absloultey turned us into laughing stocks, where we can't even be Sri Lanka or second string Aussies in UAE anymore. I don't understand what kind of planning Arthur does like pay me 5 bucks I'll do a better job then this clown. The 1 spinner in UAE tests will always infuriate me.

 

[topspin]

I agree with all of this, along with the fact that some players like Babar, Fakhar, etc are not performing up to their potential. They are much better than the 2013 side you mentioned, and a lot other ODI sides we've had in the past 6/7 years. It's just a matter of getting the right coaches, selectors, and players performing to their potential. Also a new captain is needed and will be put in after the WC thankfully. Even if we win this CWC, I'm sure we can all agree Sarfraz needs to be replaced as captain.

The problem with Sarfraz is his hunger for success diminished after the CT success, he became content and was living on past glory. Since 2017 his ODI batting has deteriorated immensely and you only have to look at his belly with how lazy he’s become. You would think he would push himself harder in the gym, with the rest he’s had while the team was playing Australia, but now he’s in his worst shape, as evident from what I saw when he was being interviewed by Ian Bishop. Now imagine how this must rub-off with the rest of the team, when he’s mouthing off the way he has in the field. Players are just frankly uninspired to play for him.

You can trust someone in the PCB to leak inside info in re: the dressing-room atmosphere, that I promise you.

 

[QalandarFan]

Agree

Zafar or Asghar atleast one of them should have been groomed by now

These guys are absolutely clowns. They'll sit there and tell you the guys in domestics aren't good enough without giving them a chance. But the guys playing right now getting smoked all around the park are better. I dream of the day we will bring a spinner other than Shadab/Yasir into the side.

 

[QalandarFan]

The problem with Sarfraz is his hunger for success diminished after the CT success, he became content and was living on past glory. Since 2017 his ODI batting has deteriorated immensely and you only have to look at his belly with how lazy he’s become. You would think he would push himself harder in the gym, with the rest he’s had while the team was playing Australia, but now he’s in his worst shape, as evident from what I saw when he was being interviewed by Ian Bishop. Now imagine how this must rub-off with the rest of the team, when he’s mouthing off the way he has in the field. Players are just frankly uninspired to play for him.

You can trust someone in the PCB to leak the dressing-room, that I promise you.

Your fitness really shows how much you want to play for your country and that says a lot about Sarfraz. The one thing I can't understand is how guys like him and Imad are passing these fitness tests which is a yo-yo test with a 17.4 bare minimum score I believe. I bet that zero tolerance policy is only for the media.

 

[QalandarFan]

Umer khan too. He is also a potential option

He's also a little young I feel if we force him into the ODI/Test side right away he'll face the same problems as Shadab. Should play some List A and First Class competition before he gets into the ODI side. Should be in the T20I side right away though.

 

[hur rizvi]

I don’t know where Karamat Ali got lost. He was genuine talent in 2015 WC

We will be needing a new legspinner to replace Yasir soon

 

[topspin]

Your fitness really shows how much you want to play for your country and that says a lot about Sarfraz. The one thing I can't understand is how guys like him and Imad are passing these fitness tests which is a yo-yo test with a 17.4 bare minimum score I believe. I bet that zero tolerance policy is only for the media.

Sarfraz is clearly not fit enough to play for the team. I doubt he’s 31 as well, just to make his presence in the side even more destructive.

Whilst many of the posters are quick to jump “he’s Pakistan’s worst captain”, they overlook the fact Misbah has set this dangerous precedent with retiring late and selfishly clinging on to your place in the side until you’re in your early 40s. Sarfraz is also trying to exploit the seniority culture, so to an extent I don’t blame him for shamelessly clinging on the way he is, because this is what he learnt from his ex-team mate.

And yes make sure you get your popcorn ready! - because I’m sure there will be more worthy highlights from PCB’s leak than the cricket itself

 

[QalandarFan]

I don’t know where Karamat Ali got lost. He was genuine talent in 2015 WC

We will be needing a new legspinner to replace Yasir soon

Yasir's still a beast in Asia, he could be even better if he worked on his fitness too though. Just look at him when he debuted compare to now. He's gotten much chubbier.

 

[hur rizvi]

Yasir's still a beast in Asia, he could be even better if he worked on his fitness too though. Just look at him when he debuted compare to now. He's gotten much chubbier.

He is but given his fitness he won’t last long now

 

[Sunny_majoka]

No,
This team is inexperienced but has potential which is better than previous Pakistan elevens

 

[BaankeJi]

A team with Babar and Imam can't be worst. Deal with it.

 

[Abdullah]

11-5= 6
So we are technically on a 6 match losing streak with this our main team.
So no, it is not the worst pak team.
2015 was a lot worse.

Even then amir shadab and hafeez were fairly important to the bowling dept. They didn't play Vs Eng

 

[Chokli]

11-5= 6
So we are technically on a 6 match losing streak with this our main team.
So no, it is not the worst pak team.
2015 was a lot worse.

Lol as if Fakhar, Sarfraz, Babar, Shaheen, Hasan would have done any better. If we had proper spinners we most likely would have won a game or two.

That batting line up performed much better than our first string would have.

No other teams have just improved more. Misbah's team was far worse, as evident from the team's showing in the 2013 CT, when they had the likes of Imran Farhat and a raw Umar Amin. No wonder the side lost every single game

We have the worst bowling coaches because we have Azhar Mahmood (God help our pacers) and no spin coach.

We also have a selector who has no guts to try and out new players, but is more interested of connecting the players with Moulana Tariq Jameel.

The current ODI skipper may not be Pakistan's worst ODI captain of all time, but he has the mannerisms of a street cricketer.

CT 2013 was bad but Amin and Shafiq should have taken their chances, both debuted around 2010 and got exposed for not being good enough.

Plus Jamshed was in that side who was most likely up to no good. Although it was only few months before where he defeated India in India, so Jamshed at that time was one of our gun players.

The conditions during that CT 2013 were something else too, 230 odd was a winning score. Even if we had Umar Akmal or Shahid Afridi we wouldn't have done any better. Akmal did come back in the Windies series after and performed well but after that series he went back to his regular self. Afridi needed a kick up the back side every now and then and he was rightfully dropped.

CT 2013 failure and losing only 3 matches shouldn't be that big of a deal. We defeated India in India few months earlier and lost 3-2 to a full strength South African side and then won 2-1 later that year.

We put up more of a fight from 2010 - 2015 WC. Ever since 2015 WC we've been borderline minnows.

The Azhar Ali one that toured Bangladesh was the worst

That team was horrible.

It looks pretty bad, because nothing is working for them right now.

Some of us have lived through that horrendous 2012-2015 period. We were so bad, didn't even feel like watching cricket back then. 2015WC has to be the most embarrassing team we have ever put out in a major tournament, although this team might end up having the honors for the worst performance

No, we were not SO bad.

We won Asia Cup, we beat India in India we beat South Africa in South Africa. We only lost 3 matches in World Cup 2015, we may have taken Australia even closer had Rahat not dropped Watsons catch.

Saying we were bad then is one helluva overstatement. Either your memory is extremely bad or you just weren't watching back then.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Lol as if Fakhar, Sarfraz, Babar, Shaheen, Hasan would have done any better. If we had proper spinners we most likely would have won a game or two.

That batting line up performed much better than our first string would have.





CT 2013 was bad but Amin and Shafiq should have taken their chances, both debuted around 2010 and got exposed for not being good enough.

Plus Jamshed was in that side who was most likely up to no good. Although it was only few months before where he defeated India in India, so Jamshed at that time was one of our gun players.

The conditions during that CT 2013 were something else too, 230 odd was a winning score. Even if we had Umar Akmal or Shahid Afridi we wouldn't have done any better. Akmal did come back in the Windies series after and performed well but after that series he went back to his regular self. Afridi needed a kick up the back side every now and then and he was rightfully dropped.

CT 2013 failure and losing only 3 matches shouldn't be that big of a deal. We defeated India in India few months earlier and lost 3-2 to a full strength South African side and then won 2-1 later that year.

We put up more of a fight from 2010 - 2015 WC. Ever since 2015 WC we've been borderline minnows.




That team was horrible.



No, we were not SO bad.

We won Asia Cup, we beat India in India we beat South Africa in South Africa. We only lost 3 matches in World Cup 2015, we may have taken Australia even closer had Rahat not dropped Watsons catch.

Saying we were bad then is one helluva overstatement. Either your memory is extremely bad or you just weren't watching back then.

We were beyond awful. Shehzad, Jamshed, Haris, Misbah, Maqsood and U.Akmal was our top 6. Add to that an over-the-hill Shahid Afridi, with Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali and Wahab Riaz as our pacers. You are smoking some real good stuff for you to say that last sentence. Or is it because that team had Umar Akmal in it?

Ajmal and Hafeez were Misbah's ODI team. Soon as Ajmal got banned and Hafeez got sidelined, we disintegrated.

Don't even get me started on that shambles of a team that was hastily arranged right after the World Cup. Sharam ke maray doob mar rahe thay hum har din.

 

[Chokli]

We were beyond awful. Shehzad, Jamshed, Haris, Misbah, Maqsood and U.Akmal was our top 6. Add to that an over-the-hill Shahid Afridi, with Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali and Wahab Riaz as our pacers. You are smoking some real good stuff for you to say that last sentence. Or is it because that team had Umar Akmal in it?

Yet we only lost two group matches and then the quarter final? That bowling line up defended a below par total of 235 against Zimbabwe and then defended 220 odd against a gun South African side on the smallest ground in the world.

That team actually had the ability to win matches with the ball and could actually take wickets.

What matches has the current team won with it's bowling? We were MUCH better then, the current team despite all it's talent is losing a sHi!t ton more than the 2012-2015 side ever did.

Ajmal and Hafeez were Misbah's ODI team. Soon as Ajmal got banned and Hafeez got sidelined, we disintegrated.

Don't even get me started on that shambles of a team that was hastily arranged right after the World Cup. Sharam ke maray doob mar rahe thay hum har din.

The point is we just aren't good enough and it's showing. At least when Misbah was around we punched above our weight more often than not.

Pakistan Cricket is finished.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Yet we only lost two group matches and then the quarter final? That bowling line up defended a below par total of 235 against Zimbabwe and then defended 220 odd against a gun South African side on the smallest ground in the world.

That team actually had the ability to win matches with the ball and could actually take wickets.

What matches has the current team won with it's bowling? We were MUCH better then, the current team despite all it's talent is losing a sHi!t ton more than the 2012-2015 side ever did.



The point is we just aren't good enough and it's showing. At least when Misbah was around we punched above our weight more often than not.

Pakistan Cricket is finished.

Those matches were flukes.
SA were 60/1 and then just choked.

 

[Chokli]

Those matches were flukes.
SA were 60/1 and then just choked.

CT 2017 was a fluke.

 

[Ronaldo7]

CT 2017 was a fluke.

Winning 4 matches in a row is a fluke now??
)
Lol at your logic.

 

[Chokli]

Winning 4 matches in a row is a fluke now??
)
Lol at your logic.

Cherish that trophy because that's the only thing Pakistani fans will ever have.

If it wasn't a fluke the team wouldn't have been exposed right after MULTIPLE times.

Have some shame.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Cherish that trophy because that's the only thing Pakistani fans will ever have.

If it wasn't a fluke the team wouldn't have been exposed right after MULTIPLE times.

Have some shame.

Cba with you.
You're so shameless that if pak somehow win today you'll start rating them again.
As i said before, you're a glory hunter.

 

[Chokli]

Cba with you.
You're so shameless that if pak somehow win today you'll start rating them again.
As i said before, you're a glory hunter.

Pakistan is not winning today.

Yeah glory hunter, that's why I'm supporting Bangladesh of all teams.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Pakistan is not winning today.

If they do, you better stay put with your claim that "pakistan cricket is dead".

 

[Chokli]

If they do, you better stay put with your claim that "pakistan cricket is dead".

If you think otherwise then you need to come back to earth.

 

[Ronaldo7]

If you think otherwise then you need to come back to earth.

Odds of Pak winning against Eng are the same as the odds were for bd winning against Sa.
So you tell me...
Do pak have a chance?

 

[hur rizvi]

[MENTION=147429]Chokli[/MENTION]

2012-15 is not same team for whole tenure

You can’t group together pre Hafeez/Ajmal ban era and post Hafeez/Ajmal ban era

Our bowling until Ajmal and Hafeez were chucking was one of the best units going around


2015 WC bowling was worse than this one. They didn’t have the baggage of 11 straight defeats and Misbah lead better. So really can’t compare if both units are in form I would prefer Hasan Ali,shaheen,Amir, wahab more than rahat, irfan, sohail khan, wahab

Anyways this would be my 2nd worst World Cup squad. I rate 2015 as the worst one because even with their A game they were a pretty mediocre unit

 

[hur rizvi]

Odds of Pak winning against Eng are the same as the odds were for bd winning against Sa.
So you tell me...
Do pak have a chance?

No they aren’t

SA aren’t as ruthless as Present day England

Pakistan have a chance but a very very slim one

 

[Ronaldo7]

No they aren’t

SA aren’t as ruthless as Present day England

Pakistan have a chance but a very very slim one

I checked it on saturday mate.
Bd were 3/1 to win
Pak are also 3/1 to win

 

[shane]

I was just watching highlights of the Ireland vs Pakistan test match and I was suddenly reminded of Mohammad Abbas. Not long ago he was being talked about as the best bowler in the game. Can someone tell me what happened to him?

 

[Ronaldo7]

I was just watching highlights of the Ireland vs Pakistan test match and I was suddenly reminded of Mohammad Abbas. Not long ago he was being talked about as the best bowler in the game. Can someone tell me what happened to him?

Nothing happened to him.
He's still our test bowler.

 

[shane]

Nothing happened to him.
He's still our test bowler.

Really? Would make a lot of sense to have included him for the World cup. Especially since Pakistan's bowling is so weak and seeing as these conditions are perfect for him.

 

[hur rizvi]

Really? Would make a lot of sense to have included him for the World cup. Especially since Pakistan's bowling is so weak and seeing as these conditions are perfect for him.

Not suited to ODIs

 

[Chokli]

Odds of Pak winning against Eng are the same as the odds were for bd winning against Sa.
So you tell me...
Do pak have a chance?

Odds can change.

How delusional does one have to be to think Pakistan can beat England.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Really? Would make a lot of sense to have included him for the World cup. Especially since Pakistan's bowling is so weak and seeing as these conditions are perfect for him.

He's not a LOI bowler

 

[randomcricketfan]

11-5= 6
So we are technically on a 6 match losing streak with this our main team.
So no, it is not the worst pak team.
2015 was a lot worse.

Why are you removing 5 matches?

 

[Usman Chadda]

Yet we only lost two group matches and then the quarter final? That bowling line up defended a below par total of 235 against Zimbabwe and then defended 220 odd against a gun South African side on the smallest ground in the world.

That team actually had the ability to win matches with the ball and could actually take wickets.

What matches has the current team won with it's bowling? We were MUCH better then, the current team despite all it's talent is losing a sHi!t ton more than the 2012-2015 side ever did.



The point is we just aren't good enough and it's showing. At least when Misbah was around we punched above our weight more often than not.

Pakistan Cricket is finished.

We comfortably lost the only two matches that we played against decent teams, while South Africa choked as usual. The current team has not covered itself in glory, but in a contest, would brutalize that team 9/10 times. The fact that you have to bring up a victory against Zimbabwe to prove your point, says it all. This tournament is still not over, and the way your posts are going recently, you might end up getting brutally trolled by a few people in a month's time.

The current team won an ICC tournament with it's bowling. Denying it won't remove it from history.

No we didn't punch above our weight. The rot started during Misbah's reign, and accelerated at lightning quick speed as soon as Ajmal got banned and Hafeez got sidelined.

 

[Ronaldo7]

If you think otherwise then you need to come back to earth.

If they do, you better stay put with your claim that "pakistan cricket is dead".

Pakistan is not winning today.

Yeah glory hunter, that's why I'm supporting Bangladesh of all teams.

[MENTION=147429]Chokli[/MENTION]
Chokli bhai...

 

[Usman Chadda]

[MENTION=147429]Chokli[/MENTION], do you honestly see that 2015WC team winning even a ten-over session against this England juggernaut?

 

[topspin]

CT 2013 was bad but Amin and Shafiq should have taken their chances, both debuted around 2010 and got exposed for not being good enough.

Plus Jamshed was in that side who was most likely up to no good. Although it was only few months before where he defeated India in India, so Jamshed at that time was one of our gun players.

The conditions during that CT 2013 were something else too, 230 odd was a winning score. Even if we had Umar Akmal or Shahid Afridi we wouldn't have done any better. Akmal did come back in the Windies series after and performed well but after that series he went back to his regular self. Afridi needed a kick up the back side every now and then and he was rightfully dropped.

CT 2013 failure and losing only 3 matches shouldn't be that big of a deal. We defeated India in India few months earlier and lost 3-2 to a full strength South African side and then won 2-1 later that year.

We put up more of a fight from 2010 - 2015 WC. Ever since 2015 WC we've been borderline minnows.

Pakistan were ranked as a minnow (in 9th) as a result of Misbah's reign after the 2011 WC. I will remind you again how the downward spiral manifested.


Firstly there was no emphasis on team development, simply due to his phobia for new blood and preference for seniors.

Secondly, because he was so ultra-conservative, he didn't like having more free-flowing players at the top of the order. As I mentioned yesterday with two prominent examples:Umar Akmal and Maqsood. Although the latter was mediocre, he did not deserve to be shifted down the lower-order after scoring a half century at number 3. This is how treated young talented batsmen, if they didn't meet his tuk tuk speciality.

Also don't forget this guy had chuckers in the team but still still couldn't deliver a respectable W/L ratio. If Sarfraz had Ajmal's chucking for bilaterals, no doubt he would have won more games.

Now I didn't respond to this just to repeat myself

There were a couple of other factors outside the cricket field, which I didn't even bring up, that should not be overlooked:

1. Retirement age of 41 in ODIs - If he had the talent of Tendulkar, Kohli and AB de Villiers, fine you would expect with his fitness to be handy with the bat with a more respectable strike rate in the 80s, as opposed to 70-75 - with this SR he was simply a burden in ODIs.

Now if we look at the bigger picture, it sets a very bad precedent for current and prospective players. They will all have the perception that 30-35 is young and they still have 10 years left in the game, because they will have fresh in their minds that a very limited batsman like Misbah was still able to play at the highest level (and as captain as well). So as you can see it sets a very bad precedent and it's no wonder why the likes of Shoaib Malik refuse to retire. I acknowledge Pakistan has always had a seniority culture (pre and post IK's days as captain)but Misbah merely reinforced it.

2. After he retired from ODIs following the 2015 WC, he was asked by the PCB for his recommendation on who should take over as captain. He decided to vouch for his Azhar Ali of all players. A timid individual with no tactical grasp of the game. What made it even worse was the fact that he wasn't able to make the cut for the squad on merit (let alone the XI), until now. This decision was very costly as it proved to be another stumbling block for Pakistan's much needed revival in the format.

This is why it is outrageous to suggest Pakistan would have been worse off, if he wasn't the captain from post-2011 WC till the 2015 WC, because in reality no one has done more damage as leader of the Pakistan cricket team.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

[MENTION=147429]Chokli[/MENTION]
Chokli bhai...

He will return to support Pakistan once again shortly.

 

[Slim]

11 match losing streak. 3 wins and 22 losses against top 8 sides since CT. Lost a warm-up game to Afghanistan as well. Thoughts?

Should stick to jinx threads, Nikhil

Thoughts? Too soon.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Definitely not the worst team, but the worst day for OP.

What a day to start the thread!!!

Pakistan beats the hot favourites and the Number 1 ranked team in the world.

He was regularly after Amir criticizing him for pace, but he showed his class by getting Buttler out at a crucial juncture and bowling at speeds between 138-142 Kph. He is also the current highest wicket taker of the tournament and was unlucky not to get another of Root because of Babar.