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Is Virat Kohli the next Ricky Ponting?

Acricketfan said:
Kw, Ss. Yes. Root. No.
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Root has better all-round stats and overall better form than Kohli in last 1-2 yrs.So yes,he is ahead of kohli in tests.A century in UAE would have made claims more stronger for him.
 
Personality wise maybe.

All round batting ability? Not a chance. Ponting for me is just marginally the second best batsman I've ever seen after Tendulkar in all formats. There's a far bigger gap after Ponting, than there is to the top spot.
 
AlphaFighter said:
I think Ponting faced better bowlers than Kohli for sure. Ponting has a very good record against England in England whereas Kohli was exposed like a shell shocked school boy by Anderson.
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Because cricket is played only in England, right?

Ponting himself looked like a tail ender in India.
 
Funny how people who won't stop whining about Kohli's failure in England ignore Ponting's failure in India.

I guess that things like these work only when they have to put down an Indian batsman.
 
Acricketfan said:
[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] where are you bro ?
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Here I am. lol. Was busy.

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As for this thread, at first the comparison may throw people off guard and comments here suggest that but if you look deeper, the thread DOES make sense.

Here's what I mean:

Every batsman has a style of play.

Viv's batting had brutality in his shots.
Sachin's batting had a mixture compactness and perfection in execution.
Lara's batting had a mixture of style and brutality.
Sanga's batting had grace.
Dravid's batting had technical perfection in defense.
Laxman's batting had classiness and effortless style.

Similarly Ponting's batting had CRISPNESS (with aggression) in his shots. That's the way he would play. The shots he plays would feel like taking out freshly baked buscuits and breaking them in half.

Kohli has a similar crispness in his batting. Watch his highlights of his 4 centuries in Australia and you would see it. Crisp batting is a lot charismatic. If you love it, you will feel that particular batsman is the best. That's probably why some starrted comparing Kohli with Sachin cos the shots Kohli played were more fun and energy filled than Sachin played (his style is different). Same way people get enamoured by Ponting's batting and his style has got a lot to do with it. Its not just pulling and hooking but the way he meets the ball, the sound he makes and the way it races off. Crispness in full flow is probably more amazing to watch (even better than Viv's brutality or Sachin's timing/power/compactness combo or Sanga's grace).

As for performance, Kohli can't hold a candle to Ponting's swing playing ability (Kohli can play pace and bounce but swing is a problem). He is probably a better player of spin though (regardless of Ponting's average in SL and Pak - he wasn't as assured against spin). Overall, Kohli is NO MATCH for Ponting the batsman but that's natural cos Ponting is an elite ATG and some even put him in SRT/Lara bracket as the best bat in the last 30 years.

But similarities between Kohli and Ponting:

1. Aggressive attitude in nature
2. Batting style - crispness of batting
3. Have to win at all costs

Whether he can reach Ponting's stature in test cricket is a big question mark. Heck, Kohli has a long way to go before he can seriously be considered as potential ATG bat leave alone Ponting level.

There are so many issues Kohli has to sort out (he can - I have seen enough of him to know he has the potential) but there are a lot of issues. Let's see what he does.

If I compare these two, I would do it for their style, attitude, etc. Performance, won't even go there for now.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Here I am. lol. Was busy.

-------------------------------------

As for this thread, at first the comparison may throw people off guard and comments here suggest that but if you look deeper, the thread DOES make sense.

Here's what I mean:

Every batsman has a style of play.

Viv's batting had brutality in his shots.
Sachin's batting had a mixture compactness and perfection in execution.
Lara's batting had a mixture of style and brutality.
Sanga's batting had grace.
Dravid's batting had technical perfection in defense.
Laxman's batting had classiness and effortless style.

Similarly Ponting's batting had CRISPNESS (with aggression) in his shots. That's the way he would play. The shots he plays would feel like taking out freshly baked buscuits and breaking them in half.

Kohli has a similar crispness in his batting. Watch his highlights of his 4 centuries in Australia and you would see it. Crisp batting is a lot charismatic. If you love it, you will feel that particular batsman is the best. That's probably why some starrted comparing Kohli with Sachin cos the shots Kohli played were more fun and energy filled than Sachin played (his style is different). Same way people get enamoured by Ponting's batting and his style has got a lot to do with it. Its not just pulling and hooking but the way he meets the ball, the sound he makes and the way it races off. Crispness in full flow is probably more amazing to watch (even better than Viv's brutality or Sachin's timing/power/compactness combo or Sanga's grace).

As for performance, Kohli can't hold a candle to Ponting's swing playing ability (Kohli can play pace and bounce but swing is a problem). He is probably a better player of spin though (regardless of Ponting's average in SL and Pak - he wasn't as assured against spin). Overall, Kohli is NO MATCH for Ponting the batsman but that's natural cos Ponting is an elite ATG and some even put him in SRT/Lara bracket as the best bat in the last 30 years.

But similarities between Kohli and Ponting:

1. Aggressive attitude in nature
2. Batting style - crispness of batting
3. Have to win at all costs

Whether he can reach Ponting's stature in test cricket is a big question mark. Heck, Kohli has a long way to go before he can seriously be considered as potential ATG bat leave alone Ponting level.

There are so many issues Kohli has to sort out (he can - I have seen enough of him to know he has the potential) but there are a lot of issues. Let's see what he does.

If I compare these two, I would do it for their style, attitude, etc. Performance, won't even go there for now.
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I see so it's all about that crispness.:narine
 
Kohli had the potential to be even better than Ponting in LOIs. However, I do not like his current approach. He has become way too cautious. He needs to bat like he used to do 2 years ago to surpass Ponting.
 
Acricketfan said:
Funny how people who won't stop whining about Kohli's failure in England ignore Ponting's failure in India.

I guess that things like these work only when they have to put down an Indian batsman.
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His weakness was Harbhajan Singh more so than spin in general, since Ponting made runs everywhere else in Asia and generally was pretty comfortable against spin, with the only exception being facing Harbhajan Singh in India.

Whereas with Kohli, it seems like he has a problem which any bowler in English conditions can exploit.

Also you have to consider that Ponting is retired now and most are going to mythologize him a little, forget about his weaker points and focus on his manifold strengths. You can expect something like that will happen with Kohli too once he is retired - only the English (aside from general Kohli haters) will hold failure to perform in England against him; just as only Indians (aside from general Ponting haters) hold failure to perform in India against him.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Here I am. lol. Was busy.

-------------------------------------

As for this thread, at first the comparison may throw people off guard and comments here suggest that but if you look deeper, the thread DOES make sense.

Here's what I mean:

Every batsman has a style of play.

Viv's batting had brutality in his shots.
Sachin's batting had a mixture compactness and perfection in execution.
Lara's batting had a mixture of style and brutality.
Sanga's batting had grace.
Dravid's batting had technical perfection in defense.
Laxman's batting had classiness and effortless style.

Similarly Ponting's batting had CRISPNESS (with aggression) in his shots. That's the way he would play. The shots he plays would feel like taking out freshly baked buscuits and breaking them in half.

Kohli has a similar crispness in his batting. Watch his highlights of his 4 centuries in Australia and you would see it. Crisp batting is a lot charismatic. If you love it, you will feel that particular batsman is the best. That's probably why some starrted comparing Kohli with Sachin cos the shots Kohli played were more fun and energy filled than Sachin played (his style is different). Same way people get enamoured by Ponting's batting and his style has got a lot to do with it. Its not just pulling and hooking but the way he meets the ball, the sound he makes and the way it races off. Crispness in full flow is probably more amazing to watch (even better than Viv's brutality or Sachin's timing/power/compactness combo or Sanga's grace).

As for performance, Kohli can't hold a candle to Ponting's swing playing ability (Kohli can play pace and bounce but swing is a problem). He is probably a better player of spin though (regardless of Ponting's average in SL and Pak - he wasn't as assured against spin). Overall, Kohli is NO MATCH for Ponting the batsman but that's natural cos Ponting is an elite ATG and some even put him in SRT/Lara bracket as the best bat in the last 30 years.

But similarities between Kohli and Ponting:

1. Aggressive attitude in nature
2. Batting style - crispness of batting
3. Have to win at all costs

Whether he can reach Ponting's stature in test cricket is a big question mark. Heck, Kohli has a long way to go before he can seriously be considered as potential ATG bat leave alone Ponting level.

There are so many issues Kohli has to sort out (he can - I have seen enough of him to know he has the potential) but there are a lot of issues. Let's see what he does.

If I compare these two, I would do it for their style, attitude, etc. Performance, won't even go there for now.
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Er, what was the stats for Ponting in the initial part of his career? Because I clearly remember him being average all through the 90s. He blossomed in the 2000s but never stood out in the 90s
 
Pantani said:
His weakness was Harbhajan Singh more so than spin in general, since Ponting made runs everywhere else in Asia and generally was pretty comfortable against spin, with the only exception being facing Harbhajan Singh in India.

Whereas with Kohli, it seems like he has a problem which any bowler in English conditions can exploit.

Also you have to consider that Ponting is retired now and most are going to mythologize him a little, forget about his weaker points and focus on his manifold strengths. You can expect something like that will happen with Kohli too once he is retired - only the English (aside from general Kohli haters) will hold failure to perform in England against him; just as only Indians (aside from general Ponting haters) hold failure to perform in India against him.
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It is not about a particular bowler. It is about failing in a country over a decent sample size. Ponting was an embarrassing failure in India but no one talks about that.
 
Indiafan said:
Er, what was the stats for Ponting in the initial part of his career? Because I clearly remember him being average all through the 90s. He blossomed in the 2000s but never stood out in the 90s
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Ponting averaged 44 in 90s. Had a good record in all countries even in 90s except India (which was his nemesis).

Then went on to kick on big time.

Till 2009, he was averaging 57 before he started to decline.
 
Acricketfan said:
It is not about a particular bowler. It is about failing in a country over a decent sample size. Ponting was an embarrassing failure in India but no one talks about that.
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So, was Lara. Almost, everybody has a poor record in one or two countries. Dravid was poor in SA, Kallis in England, Waugh in Sri Lanka, etc. Long story short, it does not take away their overall achievements. They are all ATG test batsmen in the end.
 
Ponting actually did much better in his last tour of India. He averaged 56 with 3 50s in 4 innings. Harbhajan played those 2 test matches and he did not dismiss Ponting even once in the entire series. So, there goes another myth down the drain that Ponting was always an embarrassing failure in India and that he was Harbhajan's bunny.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Ponting actually did much better in his last tour of India. He averaged 56 with 3 50s in 4 innings. Harbhajan played those 2 test matches and he did not dismiss Ponting even once in the entire series. So, there goes another myth down the drain that Ponting was always an embarrassing failure in India and that he was Harbhajan's bunny.
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Yeah. Let's pretend the previous tour never happened.
 
Acricketfan said:
It is not about a particular bowler. It is about failing in a country over a decent sample size. Ponting was an embarrassing failure in India but no one talks about that.
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And few if any will talk about Kohli's embarassing failure in England once his career is over, too. It's just the way it is, if you're dominant everywhere else then nobody cares if you have one weak country (except for those fans who live in that country/support that team): see also Warne and Muralitharan in India, and Murali in Australia.
 
dashing_man said:
comparing a jobber with a 3 Time World Cup winner, 2 times Champions Trophy winner and Ashes hero. Also a mature person who don't go on media whining like a 12 year old.

Kohli is not even close to tying Ponting shoelaces

some fans are too delusional :facepalm:
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Not as delusional as people claiming Amir to be better than Steyn already.
 
Acricketfan said:
Yeah. Let's pretend the previous tour never happened.
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Nobody is denying his poor returns in previous series. The point is he showed that he could play spin and perform in India. He was the best batsman of fast bowling of his time and did well everywhere else in Asia (Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and UAE) where spin bowling was a major factor.
 
Kohli will be the next Sachin Tendulkar. He isn't good enough to reach peak Ponting's level, but should end up on Sachin-like status.
 
Ponting averages 42 in 375 games at a SR of 80.Add to that he has some great knocks and was a big match winner.

Kohli is 27 and averages 51 at SR of 89 in the batting friendly era and is only second to AB De Villiers in this decade.He has some great knocks to him and would like to ensure a solid performance in WC.

In odis, the comparison looks fair and Kohli has every thing to match or even surpass Ponting in his whole career when he calls it off.

In tests, the comparison is nowhere to be compared. Kohli vs ABDV in tests will be interesting though.That itself will be the first stiff barrier for Kohli.
 
Kohli Vs Ponting

We know Kohli is having a dream run.Dont know how long it will last.
Ponting in his peak years 2001-2007 was a scary player with his consistency and aggressive batting.
I know people compare Kohli with Tendulkar but his real comparison should be with Ponting.
I have compared best 6 years of both.

So who comes out on top.
1.JPGKohli stats ODI 2012-2018


2.JPGKohli stats tests 2012-2018

3.JPG Ponting stats Tests 2001-2007

4.JPG Ponting stats ODI 2001-2007


Ponting bests kohli in tests while Kohli triumphs him in ODIs.These are the numbers which may not tell it all.
So which player in your opinion was/is more scary for opposition/or you during his peak years?
For me it was Ponting.I used to dread him. Inspite of Kohli's Heroics so many times Ponting due to his ability to step up in big games.
 
Ponting failed in India every chance he got. Kohli with his England tour basically cemented his place in the conversation for Goat, Ponting as good as he was could never enter that conversation.
 
Ponting was a multiple world cup winning captain. Purely on batting, Kohli beats him but as a captain Ponting beats everyone.
 
So Kohli needs 976 more runs in 14 more innings to equal the period of Ponting's peak selected by the OP in Tests. That would equate to 69.71 runs per innings. Never say never.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Ponting was a multiple world cup winning captain. Purely on batting, Kohli beats him but as a captain Ponting beats everyone.
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Ponting also had a world class team, he was a great captain no doubt but give that team to any good captain and they win the 2 world cups either way.
 
jagatk said:
Ponting also had a world class team, he was a great captain no doubt but give that team to any good captain and they win the 2 world cups either way.
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Ponting was never a great captain. Lots and lots of ex cricketers have mentioned that. The moment he lost the genuinely great players of his team, his struggles started both as a player and as a captain.

He was a phenomenal batsman though. One of my all time favorites, and one of the genuinely greatest batsman ever.
 
dashing_man said:
comparing a jobber with a 3 Time World Cup winner, 2 times Champions Trophy winner and Ashes hero. Also a mature person who don't go on media whining like a 12 year old.

Kohli is not even close to tying Ponting shoelaces

some fans are too delusional :facepalm:
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:))3 years later, try saying that again.
 
In LO, Kohli is better than Ponting but he needs to play that one iconic knock in WC.

In tests, he has went through a great three years of peak phase and if he continues this for three more years, he will be up there.

Actually, their brand of cricket and style of play are very similar as well.

The only thing at which Ponting is currently ahead is test batting and at fielding.
 
Hitman said:
Ponting was never a great captain. Lots and lots of ex cricketers have mentioned that. The moment he lost the genuinely great players of his team, his struggles started both as a player and as a captain.

He was a phenomenal batsman though. One of my all time favorites, and one of the genuinely greatest batsman ever.
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This!

Even a noob could captain THAT Australian team. Once the legends retired we all know how well Australia fared. IMO, Mark Taylor was a really good captain as was Clarke though the latter was very disruptive.
 
Ab Fan said:
In LO, Kohli is better than Ponting but he needs to play that one iconic knock in WC.

In tests, he has went through a great three years of peak phase and if he continues this for three more years, he will be up there.

Actually, their brand of cricket and style of play are very similar as well.

The only thing at which Ponting is currently ahead is test batting and at fielding.
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Don't forget Kohli has to carry a far weaker batting lineup on his shoulders than Ponting ever had to.
 
With due respect to Ponting, Kohli is a better batsman. In ODIs Ponting might be equal to Kohli due to Ponting being a champ in WC (and Kohli being dud), but in tests Kohli has scored heaps of invaluable runs and tons abroad. In this era of home bullying, score tons regualarly away from home is insanely difficult. People will realize in 10 years how remarkable it was for Kohli to domimate Eng and Saf back to back in alien conditions.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
With due respect to Ponting, Kohli is a better batsman. In ODIs Ponting might be equal to Kohli due to Ponting being a champ in WC (and Kohli being dud), but in tests Kohli has scored heaps of invaluable runs and tons abroad. In this era of home bullying, score tons regualarly away from home is insanely difficult. People will realize in 10 years how remarkable it was for Kohli to domimate Eng and Saf back to back in alien conditions.
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Kohli is not dud in terms of cups he has won CT 2013 and World Cup as a player.
 
Want to know [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] 's view on Kohli 3 years down the line. He was very vocal in 1st couple of pages of this thread and must admit some of the posts are outright shameful.
 
jadaja said:
Kohli is not dud in terms of cups he has won CT 2013 and World Cup as a player.
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He averages 20 in WC elimination rounds iirc. That's as big dud as it gets. Winning WC doesn't matter to an individual's performance, what matters is your contribution.
 
Canford Cliffs said:
Want to know [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] 's view on Kohli 3 years down the line. He was very vocal in 1st couple of pages of this thread and must admit some of the posts are outright shameful.
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Well I dont really care if you feel my post is shameful or not so dont waste bandwith there.

As for the thread. My issue back then was that some posters were claiming Kohli has already surpassed Ponting and its even a discussion which I found delusional and shameful.

Even now its a stretch to say Kohli has surpassed Ponting because as I said before, in my opinion World Cups are the pinnacle of achievement in ODIs and Kohli cannot hold a candle to Ponting in that regard.

Now I will admit that the weight of Kohli's bilateral ODI achievements is such that he is one of the ATG ODI batsmen regardless of what he does in WCs but till the point he dominates a World Cup you cannot place him as the undisputed #1 ODI batsman of all time for me.
 
Hitman said:
:))3 years later, try saying that again.
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Dont agree with the tone of that post but Kohli has literally added ZERO major trophies to his cabinet since that post was made :))
 
As for a simple answer to the thread title. I believe he is. At that time I did not believe he has surpassed Ponting but that might happen in the future especially overall since now Kohli has mastered England in Tests.

This is what I said in my PP interview few years ago:

PakPassion.net : Which player does Virat Kohli remind you of, and what is your opinion of him?

Slog : I wouldn't say he really reminds me of anyone particularly but when he gets going and especially gets past the 30s, 40s he really takes control and puts you to the sword which sort of is reminiscent of some of the Aussie greats like Ponting and Hayden as well as guys like Kevin Pietersen, who once they played themselves in really cashed in on the situation and their form.

I think he's a great batsman and I enjoy watching him especially in limited overs cricket. He will certainly be one of the great batsmen of this decade.
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Slog said:
Dont agree with the tone of that post but Kohli has literally added ZERO major trophies to his cabinet since that post was made :))
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The same excuse that was used again Sachin all his career till the 2011 WC ... I can understand that. If only the rest of the cricketing world had the same knowledge, Inzamam would have been a far better batsman than Sachin and Kolhi based on his single innings in the SF of the WC 1992 :))
 
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] Yes you can say Ponting was a poor captain in Tests because he was the only Aussie captain to lose three Ashes series. Warne should have been captain but he was too toxic backstage to have that role.

But in ODIs, NO.

He won a lot of matches without McGrath and Warne, sometimes without even Lee. He won two WC’s UNDEFEATED and lost his last one going out on a high.

They pushed the envelope with the accepted RR of that time culminating in the famous 434 match.
 
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A lot of people are also saying anybody could have captained that great Aussie team and have succes while doing so. That’s completely incorrect.

You can have an XI of supremely talented individuals but unless the group has synergy, they’re going nowhere. That’s why the 90’s PAK team underachieved and the Lakers did not win even with Shaq and Kobe until Phil Jackson got there.

In a team setting, you have great players with great individual egos. Everyone wants to be in the spotlight and feel as if they are the reason behind the success of the team.

All great teams in any sports franchise or bureaucratic environment understand their roles and the groups’ end goal.

John Bunchanan was the disciplinarian while Ponting had to remind the group what they were out to do. Ponting commented McGrath was the hardest bowler to control because he wouldn’t let go of the ball. Imagine that.

If anybody wants to see Ponting’s captaincy, see JL’s account of the Adelaide Test 2006.
 
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ManFan said:
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] Yes you can say Ponting was a poor captain in Tests because he was the only Aussie captain to lose three Ashes series. Warne should have been captain but he was too toxic backstage to have that role.

But in ODIs, NO.

He won a lot of matches without McGrath and Warne, sometimes without even Lee. He won two WC’s UNDEFEATED and lost his last one going out on a high.

They pushed the envelope with the accepted RR of that time culminating in the famous 434 match.
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Ponting is one of my favorite batsman ever, always has been, and always will be. A phenomenal, phenomenal batsman. But it doesn't help when former Aussie players like Ian Chappell and Allan Border, two of the finest Aussie captains ever, don't regard Ponting as a great captain. Ponting was the Aussie captain in the 03' and 07' World Cups. Do I even need to mention the type of team he had at his disposal, and how the Aussies dominated world cricket from 1999' WC till the 2007' WC?
 
Hitman said:
Ponting is one of my favorite batsman ever, always has been, and always will be. A phenomenal, phenomenal batsman. But it doesn't help when former Aussie players like Ian Chappell and Allan Border, two of the finest Aussie captains ever, don't regard Ponting as a great captain. Ponting was the Aussie captain in the 03' and 07' World Cups. Do I even need to mention the type of team he had at his disposal, and how the Aussies dominated world cricket from 1999' WC till the 2007' WC?
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Great players don’t necessarily make great teams.

Great teams don’t necessarily have great players.
 
As of now, Ponting's impact and legacy on cricket is much greater than Kohli. The big games he has won and the number of test matches he has won as captain is not funny.

That he had a great team at his disposal and hence his personal achievements should be discounted doesn't hold much water. If he had a great team then that can't be considered his weakness. It's like saying that SRT is a lesser batsman than Dhoni because SRT had access to much better cricket infra in Mumbai than Dhoni had in Ranchi in their early days. Of course to achieve great things in cricket you need talent, skills, good team, good mentors, access to opportunities, loads of luck etc etc. But you can't put someone's achievements down just because he had easy access to those things.
 
happydavy said:
As of now, Ponting's impact and legacy on cricket is much greater than Kohli. The big games he has won and the number of test matches he has won as captain is not funny.

That he had a great team at his disposal and hence his personal achievements should be discounted doesn't hold much water. If he had a great team then that can't be considered his weakness. It's like saying that SRT is a lesser batsman than Dhoni because SRT had access to much better cricket infra in Mumbai than Dhoni had in Ranchi in their early days. Of course to achieve great things in cricket you need talent, skills, good team, good mentors, access to opportunities, loads of luck etc etc. But you can't put someone's achievements down just because he had easy access to those things.
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That's a false equivalence if I've ever seen one. It is a lot easier to win world cups and overseas tests if you have Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne, etc under you.
 
Hitman said:
Ponting is one of my favorite batsman ever, always has been, and always will be. A phenomenal, phenomenal batsman. But it doesn't help when former Aussie players like Ian Chappell and Allan Border, two of the finest Aussie captains ever, don't regard Ponting as a great captain. Ponting was the Aussie captain in the 03' and 07' World Cups. Do I even need to mention the type of team he had at his disposal, and how the Aussies dominated world cricket from 1999' WC till the 2007' WC?
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Chapell and border are 2 individuals who have their opinions. Just like how all of us could have independent opinions and it doesn't make any of us right or wrong. If Ponting had a great team that doesn't make him a lesser captain unless you are able to prove that someone with a lesser team was winning more than or equal to Ponting. Having a good team is an advantage which he leveraged and that's a great thing to do. No one will say that Sehwag is not a great batsman because he was blessed with great hand eye coordination than most people on earth. He was born with an advantage and he leveraged that to achieve great things, it doesn't take away his greatness.
 
Sachin136 said:
That's a false equivalence if I've ever seen one. It is a lot easier to win world cups and overseas tests if you have Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne, etc under you.
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Dude please read the following sentences to the part you highlighted. I agree it's easier to win test matches with Gilchrist, McGrath and Warne but are you going to put down someone's achievements because it was easier for him to achieve that? Lara was blessed with incredible talent and he found scoring runs much easier than his peers. Does that mean Lara is not a great batsman because he found it easier than others to score runs because of his talent? Of course you need things in your favor to achieve great things but in the end your legacy is based upon what you achieved.
 
happydavy said:
Dude please read the following sentences to the part you highlighted. I agree it's easier to win test matches with Gilchrist, McGrath and Warne but are you going to put down someone's achievements because it was easier for him to achieve that? Lara was blessed with incredible talent and he found scoring runs much easier than his peers. Does that mean Lara is not a great batsman because he found it easier than others to score runs because of his talent? Of course you need things in your favor to achieve great things but in the end your legacy is based upon what you achieved.
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Talent is part of a player's own ability. How many trophies they won isn't, since that is a function of their team's ability, which has 10 players apart from themselves.

A batsman's legacy is based on how many runs they scored, where, and in which situations. Not how many tests their team won.
 
Sachin136 said:
Talent is part of a player's own ability. How many trophies they won isn't, since that is a function of their team's ability, which has 10 players apart from themselves.

A batsman's legacy is based on how many runs they scored, where, and in which situations. Not how many tests their team won.
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The point was made wrt Ponting's captaincy record and not his batting record. Number of matches won by Australia under him makes his captaincy record. Whether he found it easier than others doesn't change the record. Esp when record is of 70% wins all around the world.
 
happydavy said:
Dude please read the following sentences to the part you highlighted. I agree it's easier to win test matches with Gilchrist, McGrath and Warne but are you going to put down someone's achievements because it was easier for him to achieve that? Lara was blessed with incredible talent and he found scoring runs much easier than his peers. Does that mean Lara is not a great batsman because he found it easier than others to score runs because of his talent? Of course you need things in your favor to achieve great things but in the end your legacy is based upon what you achieved.
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Kohli's legacy in tests has nothing to do with India's performance. Tests are won by bowlers, not batsmen. Kohli has been playing like an ATG in test in last 5 years. He has been in legendary touch since 2016 which will be discussed in years to come. Scoring hundreds regularly overseas is the hardest thing to do in modern day test cricket.

I could agree Ponting has a better legacy in ODIs since a batsman has much more control in winning games in ODIs. But not in tests. If Kohli can score even 9k runs in current form, he will have surpassed Ponting in tests.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
He averages 20 in WC elimination rounds iirc. That's as big dud as it gets. Winning WC doesn't matter to an individual's performance, what matters is your contribution.
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Thats nonsense, he played just matches, anyone can few bad matches. If he was dud under pressure it would be have different story.He led single handely in two t20 world cups knockouts, it is just matter of time he does well in world cup.

He is not wuss under pressure.
 
I know I would take Kohli over Ponting.

Ponting was a great player but his was mainly a leg side player as far as I recall. Kohli is a brand in his own and can play any shot in the book.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Kohli's legacy in tests has nothing to do with India's performance. Tests are won by bowlers, not batsmen. Kohli has been playing like an ATG in test in last 5 years. He has been in legendary touch since 2016 which will be discussed in years to come. Scoring hundreds regularly overseas is the hardest thing to do in modern day test cricket.

I could agree Ponting has a better legacy in ODIs since a batsman has much more control in winning games in ODIs. But not in tests. If Kohli can score even 9k runs in current form, he will have surpassed Ponting in tests.
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Kohli's legacy will be determined both by what he's achieving as a batsman and what he will achieve as the captain of a team of which he has 100% control. Tests are won by bowlers is a very generic statement, in the recent English series 2 of the 4 test matches India lost were by lost by 30 and 60 runs chasing less than 250 each time. You want to blame bowlers if batsmen couldn't chase 250 runs?
 
jadaja said:
Thats nonsense, he played just matches, anyone can few bad matches. If he was dud under pressure it would be have different story.He led single handely in two t20 world cups knockouts, it is just matter of time he does well in world cup.

He is not wuss under pressure.
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We will see. So far, he is a wuss. I don't want to bring out the filters, it will just make Kohli look bad, he's a better batsman than that.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
We will see. So far, he is a wuss. I don't want to bring out the filters, it will just make Kohli look bad, he's a better batsman than that.
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Bring any filter you want , few matches here and there does not make him a bad player under pressure.
 
Already better than ponting in odis, let's see if he can surpass him in tests. But honestly he is the best odi batsman that I have seen, abdv was great but problem was he could get out even when set to a lose shot but rarely see that with kohli. The consistency with which he scores is beyond compare
 
#GreenRoars said:
Kohli next Tendulkar sir --> Failed
Kohli next Pointing --> Will fail sooner
Kohli next Sanga --> Advance fail
Kohli next Ashraful --> Close competition, bring it on.
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Lol. The hate is strong here. What’s so funny is kohli has overtaken them all in that list
 
jadaja said:
Yes they are but they don't define any careers.Fakhar Zaman does not become a better player than ABDV just becuase he scored 100 in CT finals.
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I am talking about WC, not lesser tourneys like CT. ABD has great record in WC.
 
Bilal7 said:
You're expecting Kohli to keep on improving from here on out and that is not a given. Especially in ODIs, where he peaked in the time-period you have given. Sure, he may end up joining Kane Williamson, Joe Root and Steve Smith as one of the best batsman in the world, moving forward, however, comparing him to a bona-fide ATG like Ricky Ponting, at this stage in his career, only sets him up for ridicule.

Kohli is not Ponting and thus, his career trajectory will not follow Ponting's own. For all we know, he may go the Saqlain Mushtaq route and end up toothless by the time he is 30.
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Kohli may not improve but let me guess your favourites definitely will? :))

Your biased and hate towards Indian players is pathetic. If Kohli was Pakistani you would be calling him an ATG.
 
Hitman said:
So Aravinda De Silva was a better ODI batsman that Sachin and Lara?
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Aravinda De Silva was never in contention for GOAT ODI batsman. Kohli is, he will be scrutinized much more harshly if he's to be acknowledged as GOAT.

BTW, Lara and Tendulkar still average higher than Kohli in WC in raw stats (would be much higher after adjusting for era).

These are the averages for the top 5 greatest ODI batsmen of all time in WC elimination rounds
Viv - 75.75 (6 inns)
Tendulkar - 48.42 (7 inns)
Ponting - 49.11 (10 inns)
ABD - 57.50 (3 inns)

Kohli - 14.40 (5 inns)

Unless Kohli fixes his WC stats, he will be known as a bilateral bully. Still top 5, but not GOAT.
Kohli- 14.40
 
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