Is/(Will) Mohammad Rizwan (become) a better batsman than Babar Azam?

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Babar gets heaps of praises from pundits all over the world, including India

But, we all know about the impact of his runs.

But, at least he WAS better statistically compared to other Pakistani batsmen

Now, Rizwan is averaging more than Babar in 2 out of three formats, despite being an AR (wk). Looks like a much better fighter, a better fielder, a better communicator and a better captain than Babar, and also a wicket keeper

These are the numbers

Tests

Babar - Matches: 33, Avg: 42.52
Rizwan - Matches: 15, Avg: 43.15

T20Is

Babar - Matches: 57, Avg: 46.80, Sr: 130.72
Rizwan - Matches: 39, Avg: 48.52, Sr: 129.15

ODIs, yes. Currently there's no comparison. Rizwan is averaging half of Babar, which is Babar's strongest format

ODIs

Babar: Matches: 83, Avg: 56.92, Sr: 89.57
Rizwan - Matches: 41, Avg: 28.80, Sr: 87.62

Will Rizwan become a better batsman than Babar Azam in the future, if not already?

 

[Hitman]

I certainly see him having more potential than Babar. Babar is although a brilliant batsman in his own right though.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Babar gets heaps of praises from pundits all over the world, including India

But, we all know about the impact of his runs.

But, at least he WAS better statistically compared to other Pakistani batsmen

Now, Rizwan is averaging more than Babar in 2 out of three formats, despite being an AR (wk). Looks like a much better fighter, a better fielder, a better communicator and a better captain than Babar, and also a wicket keeper

These are the numbers

Tests

Babar - Matches: 33, Avg: 42.52
Rizwan - Matches: 15, Avg: 43.15

T20Is

Babar - Matches: 57, Avg: 46.80, Sr: 130.72
Rizwan - Matches: 39, Avg: 48.52, Sr: 129.15

ODIs, yes. Currently there's no comparison. Rizwan is averaging half of Babar, which is Babar's strongest format

ODIs

Babar: Matches: 83, Avg: 56.92, Sr: 89.57
Rizwan - Matches: 41, Avg: 28.80, Sr: 87.62

Will Rizwan become a better batsman than Babar Azam in the future, if not already?

Time to change to Rizwan_fan i guess.

 

[Itachi]

Rizwan has more potential than babar though currently babar IS SUPERIOR than him.

But if Rizwan continues the trend, he will surpass babar eventually and could become a batsman from Pakistan that'll be respected by top teams unlike babar (everyone knows babar makes runs but not a threat since his runs will be impact less in the end).

 

[Varun]

Also, Rizwan has a sensible captain's head.

Can play a Dhoni/Sangakkara/McCullum role for Pakistan if used correctly.

 

[Hawkeye]

Questions like these.

)

Do people really watch cricket on spreadsheets and not watch batters bat?

Babar is at a much superior level. Can't be compared.

Yes you can compare Rizwan and his ability with Sarfraz, etc. One dimensional batters.

 

[Ab Fan]

Both are brilliant batsman in their own right.

One is Virat Kohli and other is Rohit Sharma.

 

[Hitman]

^^ Comparing Rizwan with Sarfaraz )

 

[Hawkeye]

^^ Comparing Rizwan with Sarfaraz )

Yes, comparing with Sarfraz at his peak. The kind that had mesmerized PPers in exactly the same way as Rizwan has done.

Riz is going through his purple patch which Sarf too did at one time. You're forgetting how good he used to be, their playing styles are also very similar. Both accumulators.

 

[street cricketer]

Yes, comparing with Sarfraz at his peak. The kind that had mesmerized PPers in exactly the same way as Rizwan has done.

Riz is going through his purple patch which Sarf too did at one time. You're forgetting how good he used to be, their playing styles are also very similar. Both accumulators.

Babar is an accumulator too. Just a more consistent one.

 

[Hitman]

Yes, comparing with Sarfraz at his peak. The kind that had mesmerized PPers in exactly the same way as Rizwan has done.

Riz is going through his purple patch which Sarf too did at one time. You're forgetting how good he used to be, their playing styles are also very similar. Both accumulators.

Sarfaraz at his peak wasn't good enough to me mentioned in the same sentence as Rizwan now.

 

[Hawkeye]

Babar is an accumulator too. Just a more consistent one.

Not even close. Babar has several extra gears too, can play a 360* game and difficult to trap his runs scoring.

Riz has limited scoring areas and not again a limited range of shots.

Sarfaraz at his peak wasn't good enough to me mentioned in the same sentence as Rizwan now.

You have forgotten how essential and good Sarfraz was during his similar to Rizwan bubble.

 

[street cricketer]

Not even close. Babar has several extra gears too, can play a 360* game and difficult to trap his runs scoring.

Riz has limited scoring areas and not again a limited range of shots.

Babar averages 39 @ 133 (sr) in the last two years in T20Is.
Rizwan averages 68 @ 135 in the same period.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=batting

To put things into context, in the same period,

Virat averages 60 @ 143
Rohit averages 33 @ 145

and both get regularly criticised by Indian fans for their outdated approach to their innings.

Even Manish Pandey averages 57 @ 138 and he is considered the archetypical accumulator in India.

 

[Hawkeye]

Babar averages 39 @ 133 (sr) in the last two years in T20Is.
Rizwan averages 68 @ 135 in the same period.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=batting

To put things into context, in the same period,

Virat averages 60 @ 143
Rohit averages 33 @ 145

and both get regularly criticised by Indian fans for their outdated approach to their innings.

Even Manish Pandey averages 57 @ 138 and he is considered the archetypical accumulator in India.

Stats don't tell the whole story. It's about ability and range of shots, having an extra gear when needed etc.

 

[street cricketer]

Stats don't tell the whole story. It's about ability and range of shots, having an extra gear when needed etc.

The run output tells a different story though.

 

[gazza619]

Rizwan is all set to become an all time great for Pakistan. He has far too many haters though unlike Babar.

What concerns me is that he averages 100 in T20s and yet gets so much hate. What will happen when he is out of form?

 

[Mamoon]

He has better mentality, more courage and better match-awareness.

Would always put my money on him over Babar in a pressure game. Babar though will score more soft runs to maintain better looking stats.

For example, in the WT20 match against India, I can see Rizwan putting up a lone hand and scoring a fighting fifty in a losing cause while Babar crumbles like cookie against India for the umpteenth time.

Meanwhile, deluded fans will bash Rizwan for not scoring a 100 in 30 balls while drooling over how great Babar’s cover-drive looked.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

Babar obviously is the more talented among the two. Rizwan is a very limited batsman but he makes up the lack of skill with his spirit and attitude. However both of them are not match winners or game changers in t20 format.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mohammad Rizwan has attained a career-best seventh position in the ICC T20I rankings for batsmen after scoring 176 runs in the series against England including an unbeaten 76 in the final match in Manchester, performances that helped him gain four places <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1417769380956495872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Abdurmirr]

Babar will easily have better stats and that compared to Rizwan, however when the tough gets going 9 times out of 10 Rizwan will either outperform Babar or help in relieving pressure of Babar.

That to me is the hall mark of a quality player, someone that can stick it out when things get tough and change the momentum for their team

However take nothing away from Babar he is a top tier batsmen and in terms of talent and skill he is far ahead of Rizwan. If he can somehow overcome the issues he's had mentally in terms of dealing with pressure than he will not just be better than Rizwan but our GOAT batsmen.

Nevertheless at present I'd say Rizwan is on track to surpassing Babar as an impact player

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes, comparing with Sarfraz at his peak. The kind that had mesmerized PPers in exactly the same way as Rizwan has done.

Riz is going through his purple patch which Sarf too did at one time. You're forgetting how good he used to be, their playing styles are also very similar. Both accumulators.

Haha what? Sarfraz's high-point as a batsman was smashing a hundred against Ireland in the World Cup and playing a few good knocks against Sri Lanka in tests. And that's pretty much it. Fans were mesmerized because that's just how bad the ODI team was back then. Seeing even a century from a Pakistan batsman was a rare sight since that was how outdated Pakistan's ODI cricket was.

For a period of time he was successful because he used to come in when there was a decent score on the board which allowed him to play freely. But as soon as the senior pros departed and he was given the responsibility of captaincy, he was exposed for the hack and the mentally weak player that he was. He could only dream of the kind of form Rizwan is experiencing in T20Is currently.

While as a keeper Rizwan is not just in a different league, but in a different galaxy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He has better mentality, more courage and better match-awareness.

Would always put my money on him over Babar in a pressure game. Babar though will score more soft runs to maintain better looking stats.

For example, in the WT20 match against India, I can see Rizwan putting up a lone hand and scoring a fighting fifty in a losing cause while Babar crumbles like cookie against India for the umpteenth time.

Meanwhile, deluded fans will bash Rizwan for not scoring a 100 in 30 balls while drooling over how great Babar’s cover-drive looked.

A cricketer of his caliber is frankly an anomaly for a team like Pakistan. So the fact that certain people here still don't recognize how good he is speaks more to how out of touch they are with cricket, rather than anything else.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

In ODIs there is no debate. Babar is better.

In tests both are yet to hit their peak. Rizwan is a rare Pak wicketkeeper who can score outside Asia, so that's a bonus.

In T20Is, something is wrong with Babar Azam's approach, maybe it is captaincy or maybe he is having a bad patch. Let's see how the world cup goes. Rizwan is a better T20I batsman than Babar.
What we lack is middle order reliability in T20Is. Good teams will easily decimate us in this upcoming T20I world cup.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Rizwan is all set to become an all time great for Pakistan. He has far too many haters though unlike Babar.

What concerns me is that he averages 100 in T20s and yet gets so much hate. What will happen when he is out of form?

Pakistani fans and cricket media are among the most toxic in the world. They will continue to hate someone if they hate him regardless of what that player does...so I don't see that changing. But based on what I know of Rizwan by seeing him, I don't think he will get bogged down by the background noise. He has the mindset of a champion and like you, I fully see him becoming an all-time great for Pakistan too.

Additionally, another thing I like about him is that he is not subject to the same afflictions as many great Pakistan cricketers from the past and seems to be a humble, honest and down to earth individual. And I am certain that will hold him in good stead throughout his career.

 

[silentkiller187]

Stats don't tell the whole story. It's about ability and range of shots, having an extra gear when needed etc.

hes hit the 3rd highest number of 6s from all teams this year, its a myth he cant hit big, the real issue is the rest of the players behind him are rubbish so he cant take as many risks. take yesterday for example if he swang blindly we wouldn't have even got to 100. Sarfraz could only dream of playing yesterday type innings even in his prime.

 

[MRSN]

Haha what? Sarfraz's high-point as a batsman was smashing a hundred against Ireland in the World Cup and playing a few good knocks against Sri Lanka in tests. And that's pretty much it. Fans were mesmerized because that's just how bad the ODI team was back then. Seeing even a century from a Pakistan batsman was a rare sight since that was how outdated Pakistan's ODI cricket was.

For a period of time he was successful because he used to come in when there was a decent score on the board which allowed him to play freely. But as soon as the senior pros departed and he was given the responsibility of captaincy, he was exposed for the hack and the mentally weak player that he was. He could only dream of the kind of form Rizwan is experiencing in T20Is currently.

While as a keeper Rizwan is not just in a different league, but in a different galaxy.

Thanks. At least someone here points him out true calibre of Sarfraz. Lol

Also his great ODI innings was a 50 against SA where he got 50% of his runs against Duminy.lol

 

[MRSN]

A cricketer of his caliber is frankly an anomaly for a team like Pakistan. So the fact that certain people here still don't recognize how good he is speaks more to how out of touch they are with cricket, rather than anything else.

It's called a working lobby. Unfortunately Rizwan born in a city that lobby is not paid to support in fact they would criticise any player who challenges this lobby's cherished players.

 

[MRSN]

One thing I fail to understand why so many people support regionalism even at this modern age? Is this some psychological thing or it has to do with human intelligence?

 

[silentkiller187]

The main difference i think is attitude, the word gets thrown around a lot in pak cricket and doesn't even mean anything most of the time in our context, however this guy has something different about him, hes humble, workman like, has ability but more than that he is willing to work hard to convert that ability into his performances.

Anyone who is still criticizing him either has an ulterior motive / troll or they have 0% cricket knowledge, because i haven't even seen Indians or Englishmen jump for praise like they have recently for Rizwan for any of our players, Babar included.

 

[shamaan]

Thiers no question about babar being the better in terms of skill and range of shots.
Rizwan has the better temperament and mentality.

 

[badsha001]

Babar might be more talented but Rizwan is a far superior product due to his hard work and stronger mental capacity.

 

[Local.Dada]

Both are brilliant batsman in their own right.

One is Virat Kohli and other is Rohit Sharma.

Which ones is which

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It's called a working lobby. Unfortunately Rizwan born in a city that lobby is not paid to support in fact they would criticise any player who challenges this lobby's cherished players.

Its not just the lobby though. Its average fans too...which is most disappointing to see.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Thanks. At least someone here points him out true calibre of Sarfraz. Lol

Also his great ODI innings was a 50 against SA where he got 50% of his runs against Duminy.lol

I don't mean to take anything away from his innings against SA or Ireland in the World Cup--both of which ended up being crucial in winning us those games--but to project Sarfraz as some kind of a supposedly great player that mesmerized fans is simply false. He had a couple of good years but at the end of the day, his high-points weren't even comparable to the high-points of Kamran Akmal.

 

[OmarKhan99]

Haha what? Sarfraz's high-point as a batsman was smashing a hundred against Ireland in the World Cup and playing a few good knocks against Sri Lanka in tests. And that's pretty much it. Fans were mesmerized because that's just how bad the ODI team was back then. Seeing even a century from a Pakistan batsman was a rare sight since that was how outdated Pakistan's ODI cricket was.

For a period of time he was successful because he used to come in when there was a decent score on the board which allowed him to play freely. But as soon as the senior pros departed and he was given the responsibility of captaincy, he was exposed for the hack and the mentally weak player that he was. He could only dream of the kind of form Rizwan is experiencing in T20Is currently.

While as a keeper Rizwan is not just in a different league, but in a different galaxy.

At least be intellectually honest:




People seem to have a bit of short-term memory, so just a bit of an example. During the ODI series in England in 2016 (yes, that 444 one), Sarfraz was the actual highest run-scorer from both sides. He was one of the sole bright spots in that series, especially with that 100-odd he got when Pakistan were 2/3 in the third over and that 90-odd off 70 deliveries to chase down 302. Rizwan played alongside Sarfraz in two of those matches, and anyone who watched it live would testify that at that time Sarfraz was easily the better player at the time.



Look, I've said this numerous times before, but I guess it has to be reiterated: You don't have to bring down one player to praise another. Sarfraz was an excellent WK-Bat during the phase he was in form and was the best available choice at that both as WK-Bat and Captain. However, time has passed, Sarfraz has 'lost' his 2014-2017 form and we have moved on. Now PCT has an even better WK-Bat in Rizwan who has even higher potential with both gloves and bat.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

At least be intellectually honest:

View attachment 110605
View attachment 110606

People seem to have a bit of short-term memory, so just a bit of an example. During the ODI series in England in 2016 (yes, that 444 one), Sarfraz was the actual highest run-scorer from both sides. He was one of the sole bright spots in that series, especially with that 100-odd he got when Pakistan were 2/3 in the third over and that 90-odd off 70 deliveries to chase down 302. Rizwan played alongside Sarfraz in two of those matches, and anyone who watched it live would testify that at that time Sarfraz was easily the better player at the time.

View attachment 110607

Look, I've said this numerous times before, but I guess it has to be reiterated: You don't have to bring down one player to praise another. Sarfraz was an excellent WK-Bat during the phase he was in form and was the best available choice at that both as WK-Bat and Captain. However, time has passed, Sarfraz has 'lost' his 2014-2017 form and we have moved on. Now PCT has an even better WK-Bat in Rizwan who has even higher potential with both gloves and bat.

Either you have trouble reading or you simply didn't bother to read my comments. I said Sarfraz had a couple of good years which is 100% true. His form began tailing off in 2017 and he has been on a steady decline ever since.

Sarfraz was not an "excellent WK-Bat" at any point of his career. He was a very good batsman for a period of time and a better than average keeper for most of his career. But he never experienced the kind of high-points as a WK batsman that Rizwan has in the last year or Kamran Akmal did during his early days. And holding up a series that we lost 4-1 is not exactly the best example to put up here.

 

[OmarKhan99]

Either you have trouble reading or you simply didn't bother to read my comments. I said Sarfraz had a couple of good years which is 100% true. His form began tailing off in 2017 and he has been on a steady decline ever since.

Sarfraz was not an "excellent WK-Bat" at any point of his career. He was a very good batsman for a period of time and a better than average keeper for most of his career. But he never experienced the kind of high-points as a WK batsman that Rizwan has in the last year or Kamran Akmal did during his early days. And holding up a series that we lost 4-1 is not exactly the best example to put up here.

Have trouble remembering what you've written?

Haha what? Sarfraz's high-point as a batsman was smashing a hundred against Ireland in the World Cup and playing a few good knocks against Sri Lanka in tests. And that's pretty much it.

'Excellent' or 'Very good' etc. are very arbitrary and something too trivial and subjective to argue over. I was just pointing out that your claim above is demonstrably false.

And holding up a series that we lost 4-1 is not exactly the best example to put up here.

I'm not sure how you didn't see the irony right there.

Let me spell it out anyway. Sarfraz was head-and-shoulders the best batsman from PCT during that series. Pakistan losing the series doesn't necessarily mean that an individual's performances automatically don't exist anymore. Some of Babar's and Rizwan's best innings, the ones that have made them stand out ahead of other PCT batsmen, have come in series that Pakistan has ultimately lost. Or, do you usually discount all of Babar's innings from the SA'19, Aus'19, Eng'20 & '21 and Rizwan's from Aus'19, Eng'20, NZ'21, Eng'21 (this last one, where we lost 5-1)?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Have trouble remembering what you've written?



'Excellent' or 'Very good' etc. are very arbitrary and something too trivial and subjective to argue over. I was just pointing out that your claim above is demonstrably false.



I'm not sure how you didn't see the irony right there.

Let me spell it out anyway. Sarfraz was head-and-shoulders the best batsman from PCT during that series. Pakistan losing the series doesn't necessarily mean that an individual's performances automatically don't exist anymore. Some of Babar's and Rizwan's best innings, the ones that have made them stand out ahead of other PCT batsmen, have come in series that Pakistan has ultimately lost. Or, do you usually discount all of Babar's innings from the SA'19, Aus'19, Eng'20 & '21 and Rizwan's from Aus'19, Eng'20, NZ'21, Eng'21 (this last one, where we lost 5-1)?

The fact that Sarfraz was the best batsman [for a handful of series] in a team that was ranked near the bottom of the rankings table and playing a brand of cricket that was outdated in every way is certainly nothing to celebrate. Its like saying XYZ is the nicest guy in prison. This kind of minnow mentality has always impeded the growth of our cricket.

And what's worse is that Sarfraz didn't use any of these innings to continue improving as a batsman. If anything he regressed until he hit rock bottom and was unceremoniously axed as captain and first-choice wicket-keeper and relegated to a back-up bench warmer.

And to answer your question, you can consider knocks that don't win the team the match meaningless, while also recognizing that they did something for the personal development of the player. That was certainly the case with Babar and Rizwan, but as it turned out, not so much for Sarfraz. Why? Because Sarfraz was always a hack who (to his credit and his luck) experienced a surge in form at a time when Pakistan were just about the worst they have ever been in their ODI history. Since he was the only one who seemed to be batting according to modern standards and actually scoring runs, Pakistani fans naturally went wild and started clamoring for him to be captain.

But the thing about hacks is that at the end of the day they are hacks. And sooner or later they get exposed which is exactly what happened with Sarfraz.

 

[OmarKhan99]

The fact that Sarfraz was the best batsman [for a handful of series] in a team that was ranked near the bottom of the rankings table and playing a brand of cricket that was outdated in every way is certainly nothing to celebrate. Its like saying XYZ is the nicest guy in prison. This kind of minnow mentality has always impeded the growth of our cricket.

And what's worse is that Sarfraz didn't use any of these innings to continue improving as a batsman. If anything he regressed until he hit rock bottom and was unceremoniously axed as captain and first-choice wicket-keeper and relegated to a back-up bench warmer.

And to answer your question, you can consider knocks that don't win the team the match meaningless, while also recognizing that they did something for the personal development of the player. That was certainly the case with Babar and Rizwan, but as it turned out, not so much for Sarfraz. Why? Because Sarfraz was always a hack who (to his credit and his luck) experienced a surge in form at a time when Pakistan were just about the worst they have ever been in their ODI history. Since he was the only one who seemed to be batting according to modern standards and actually scoring runs, Pakistani fans naturally went wild and started clamoring for him to be captain.

But the thing about hacks is that at the end of the day they are hacks. And sooner or later they get exposed which is exactly what happened with Sarfraz.

As expected. So, was he a 'very good batsman' or was he 'always a hack'? The least you can do is make up your mind and make a coherent argument.

I can understand why you would consider PCT of 2016 as a bad team at the time, but the "worst they have ever been in their ODI history"? This is largely the same team that went on to win the CT17 a year later. Also, let's say hypothetically they were the worst, you do realize that on one hand you're justifying calling Sarfraz a hack and undermining his good performances because he was apparently the best in a team of very bad players (although he outscored the opposition as well), but also praising Rizwan for being one of the best two batsmen in the current PCT that just got blanked 3-0 against a depleted England side (the less said about the Aus'19/NZ'21 tour the better). The fact that you can't see the irony is baffling.

Remember, context matters. The fact that the team ultimately lost the series, has little bearing on the other fact that an innings played in one of the matches was an excellent and matchwinning one. Otherwise, you'd also discount Stokes' century at Headingly, as England did win that Test, but did end up not regaining the urn.

Just like some have a ridiculously unreasonable dislike of Rizwan, you seem to have an unreasonable dislike for Sarfraz. At that point, a debate becomes pointless and futile.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

As expected. So, was he a 'very good batsman' or was he 'always a hack'? The least you can do is make up your mind and make a coherent argument.

I can understand why you would consider PCT of 2016 as a bad team at the time, but the "worst they have ever been in their ODI history"? This is largely the same team that went on to win the CT17 a year later. Also, let's say hypothetically they were the worst, you do realize that on one hand you're justifying calling Sarfraz a hack and undermining his good performances because he was apparently the best in a team of very bad players (although he outscored the opposition as well), but also praising Rizwan for being one of the best two batsmen in the current PCT that just got blanked 3-0 against a depleted England side (the less said about the Aus'19/NZ'21 tour the better). The fact that you can't see the irony is baffling.

Remember, context matters. The fact that the team ultimately lost the series, has little bearing on the other fact that an innings played in one of the matches was an excellent and matchwinning one. Otherwise, you'd also discount Stokes' century at Headingly, as England did win that Test, but did end up not regaining the urn.

Just like some have a ridiculously unreasonable dislike of Rizwan, you seem to have an unreasonable dislike for Sarfraz. At that point, a debate becomes pointless and futile.

I think you are the only one who is confused here. I said Sarfraz was a very batsman for period of time, but clearly not a great batsman on the whole as he was badly exposed not long after. And once he was exposed his flaws became all the more apparent and after a certain period of time it became obvious that the guy was a hack who simply did not have the ability to sustain his form and continue succeeding at the highest level.

I would say the same about Kamran Akmal who was an abundantly superior batsman to Sarfraz during the early days of his career. Unlike Sarfraz he actually played a starring role in one of Pakistan's greatest test victories in Karachi and was doing very well as a wicket-keeper batsman for quite some time. Does that mean that I think Kamran Akmal is a great batsman? Not in the slightest.

You need to understand that players will ultimately defined by their failures if those failures outweigh their successes. And in that is certainly the case with the careers of both Kamran Akmal and Sarfraz.



Up until now Rizwan has not been exposed in any way. If anything he has built on his strengths, learnt from his mistakes and improved as a player with every series. If Rizwan goes through the same horrific run of form that Sarfraz went through after he became captain (with both bat and gloves) then he deserves all the same criticism. But thing is he hasn't. That is a very basic difference that you seem unable to comprehend because of your fixation with the one great year of Sarfraz's ODI career.

I can understand why you would consider PCT of 2016 as a bad team at the time, but the "worst they have ever been in their ODI history"?

Sarfraz's form with the bat in ODIs began taking off at the 2015 World Cup. And that Pakistan team along with the one that succeeded it in series against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe after the World Cup were most certainly the worst teams Pakistan has ever fielded in their ODI history.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Well, what is the definition of better batsman?

If better batsman means scoring in all countries, then Rizwan is almost same as babar as he has scored in England and NZ in the opportunities he has got in the past year.

If a better batsman means scoring in all situations then Babar falls flat more often then not during chasing. Even his 158 in this tour came in a dead rubber. Rizwan too has not done much in his short career so far in must win situations or chases.

If a better batsman means range of shots the Babar is a more complete batsman who can score well on both sides.

If a better batsman means playing both spin and fase bowling Babar seems to struggle against spinners as was evident in the south africa test series. Rizwan so far hasn't shown such weakness.

To put it in a nutshell Rizwan is pretty much close to Babar as far as impact is concerned. He has utilised the opportunities much better so far and has a chance of surpassing Babar as far as contributing in winning knocks.

But stats wise Babar may be well ahead when they hang their boots.

 

[jnaveen1980]

No. Probably more clutch? Bit like how Dhoni used to be clutch in his hey days even though he was not the best batsman in the side.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

He's certainly going through a good phase and plays a fearless brand of cricket in my personal view compared to Babar, however that's not a knock on Babar.

I think we need to stop with the whole oh he's better than him or he isn't as good as him talk. Certain players in our t20/odi/test setup have certain attributes that some don't and vice versa. InshAllah they all reach their potential.

 

[MenInG]

At the moment, in all formats, all we need is for them to be performing consistently!

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

At the moment, in all formats, all we need is for them to be performing consistently!

Agreed. I am really hoping for a match winning performance today with their partnership.

They compliment one another well with Babar more of an anchor and Rizwan more attacking.

Unfortunately Babar has a lot of criticism for his scoring runs but not converting into match winning innings due to pace and time of wicket lost but he has a lot of pressure as well. Hard when you have almost no consistent person beside you.

Rizwan could and should be that player but currently in tests they are completely lost at the top.

Maybe open with Babar and Rizwan at this rate. The others simply are not capable and at least with them if they set a good platform, others will play with more ease.

Hard times indeed for Pakistan cricket.

 

[Firebat]

Rizwan losing his wicket at a crucial time, edging behind to Holder just after the rain break. Great delivery or lack of concentration?

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[gazza619]

Disappointing Rizwan isnt converting these starts.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Rizwan seems to stand up in important matches (with limited skills he has) whereas Babar seems to be falling more

 

[transparent opacity]

In T20s, yes he has a chance to become a better bat, however, in ODIs and Tests, it'd be difficult to surpass Babar.

 

[Snowflake]

Rizwan is fully utilizing the capability he has whereas Babar is falling short of his own.

However, there's a gulf between the two when it comes to talent and capability. Babar is a unique talent and his ceiling is much much higher than Rizwan - there is no comparison there.

Indians saying Rizwan is better than Babar is similar to when Pakistanis say Dravid is better than Sachin ) Both sides know the truth though lol

 

[ha5is12]

Rizwan been abysmal in ODI's. In tests he has one century and not for a lack of opportunity due to Pakistans regular collapses and has had one only ONE stellar year in t20's. People need to have some shame before making such threads.

 

[sweep_shot]

Babar is better than Rizwan when you consider all formats.

But, Rizwan is the better T20 batsman.

 

[shamaan]

Rizwan is a clutch player and has different gears. In Odis and Tests Babar is well ahead.

 

[msb314]

He has better mentality, more courage and better match-awareness.

Would always put my money on him over Babar in a pressure game. Babar though will score more soft runs to maintain better looking stats.

For example, in the WT20 match against India, I can see Rizwan putting up a lone hand and scoring a fighting fifty in a losing cause while Babar crumbles like cookie against India for the umpteenth time.

Meanwhile, deluded fans will bash Rizwan for not scoring a 100 in 30 balls while drooling over how great Babar’s cover-drive looked.

You could not be more wrong lol

 

[ARK Rafay]

I don't think so.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

However, there's a gulf between the two when it comes to talent and capability. Babar is a unique talent

What unique talent he has?

 

[badsha001]

What unique talent he has?

falling short of achieving his ceiling. that's a talent many people don't have.

 

[badsha001]

Rizwan needs to start opening in ODIs as well to have a bigger impact.

 

[MenInG]

Not too long before Riz overtakes Babar in rankings in T20Is atleast

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Rizwan has already more match winning knocks than softy Azam and has better acceleration and hitting abilities.

 

[Snowflake]

What unique talent he has?

Babar has wider range of shots. Babar is equally strong on the legside and on the offside. He plays both full and short pitched stuff well. Overall, a very well-rounded batsmen with solid technique - that is quite unique in this day and age.

Rizwan on the other hand is limited when it comes to the range as he's predominantly a legside player.

Also, you don't become one of the top batsmen in all 3 formats without having a unique talent...strange question.

 

[shamaan]

Babar has wider range of shots. Babar is equally strong on the legside and on the offside. He plays both full and short pitched stuff well. Overall, a very well-rounded batsmen with solid technique - that is quite unique in this day and age.

Rizwan on the other hand is limited when it comes to the range as he's predominantly a legside player.

Also, you don't become one of the top batsmen in all 3 formats without having a unique talent...strange question.

But Rizwan has different gears but in terms of talent and class babar is ahead

 

[Snowflake]

But Rizwan has different gears but in terms of talent and class babar is ahead

Well, I see it a little differently... if Rizwan takes a while to get going, then yeah he has "different gears" because he does accelerate well. Babar, on the other hand, does not take as long as Rizwan to get going and ends up playing more or less at the same pace as Rizwan.

So, I don't think it's fair to conclude that Rizwan has different gears and Babar does not.

 

[Snowflake]

Rizwan needs to start opening in ODIs as well to have a bigger impact.

Agreed. With the kind of numbers both Babar and Rizwan have been posting in T20s, there is no reason for them not to open in ODIs too. Current openers should be adjusted elsewhere because the Bab/Riz partnership at the top order is going through this freakish purple patch which should be utilized fully.

 

[shamaan]

Well, I see it a little differently... if Rizwan takes a while to get going, then yeah he has "different gears" because he does accelerate well. Babar, on the other hand, does not take as long as Rizwan to get going and ends up playing more or less at the same pace as Rizwan.

So, I don't think it's fair to conclude that Rizwan has different gears and Babar does not.

Babar paces his innings better and bats at similar pace throwout his innings

Rizwan takes longer but then catches up and then goes at a much quicker pace that's how I see it.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Also, you don't become one of the top batsmen in all 3 formats without having a unique talent...strange question.

When did this happen?
Babar is not even in top 10 test players list, he is strictly LOI player atm.