Islam and the theory of relativity etc...

[ShowStopper]

I am going to strongly disagree on that one waisay

Why?

 

[Schiller]

Islam's brilliance is not in the fact that it should not be discussed but that it can be discussed by everyone, ensuring that the doubters never hold much ground

 

[HAFRIDI]

Nice posts SS, enjoy reading ur views

 

[ShowStopper]

Islam's brilliance is not in the fact that it should not be discussed but that it can be discussed by everyone, ensuring that the doubters never hold much ground

OK I will take that Thanks. you clarified a misconception I had

 

[Schiller]

you're welcome.

 

[Officer Barbrady]

So much for the unnecessary punc s ego.

 

[Invictus]

There is no argument here. Science wants tangible, measureable, irrefutable proof. Quran is not a scientific book. Its a religious book. Its not meant to be seen as a scientific document. And as a matter of fact its not. Because if anything Quran gives us vague refrences at best pointing towards a certain direction and then you have to build the case from there. You cannot use that as a argument since science demands concrete data proving your point. Thats why there is a distinction between philosophy and science.

 

[Schiller]

 

[ShowStopper]

There is no argument here. Science wants tangible, measureable, irrefutable proof. Quran is not a scientific book. Its a religious book. Its not meant to be seen as a scientific document. And as a matter of fact its not. Because if anything Quran gives us vague refrences at best pointing towards a certain direction and then you have to build the case from there. You cannot use that as a argument since science demands concrete data proving your point. Thats why there is a distinction between philosophy and science.

 

[jatt13]

Thats why I am not going much into details, because I do not want to harm my Eman talking to them. One thing they will never understand( and my other muslim brothers should also take a note.) is Islam can't be discussed, because discussions are only for those thing which have good and bad sides to them, and the Science MY FOOT.

As I said earlier "when it comes to Islam its(science) still at very infant stage". And one question to JATT and STRIKE. Do you beleive in miracles? if yes don't Miracles go against science theories? If not then how can a 6 years old baby girls stay under tons of rubble for days with no food and water and still come out alive perfectly healthy?

for some reason your assuming that i am not religious

 

[ShowStopper]

for some reason your assuming that i am not religious

Sorry if you felt that way.

 

[jatt13]

Sorry if you felt that way.

No thats ok....i am not an atheist like strike...i was just defending him in the sense that he does seem to be a very educated man in many different topics...now i may not agree with him attempting to prove that there are flaws in another persons holy book....i feel he has been respectful and not just pure bashing islam like people on other sites.

 

[MIG]

Guys - stick to the topic at hand - no idle chit chat on this thread pls.

 

[ShowStopper]

No thats ok....i am not an atheist like strike...i was just defending him in the sense that he does seem to be a very educated man in many different topics...now i may not agree with him attempting to prove that there are flaws in another persons holy book....i feel he has been respectful and not just pure bashing islam like people on other sites.

No its ok he has been respactful and I have not said anything disrespactful to him and you too. I myself like knowledable people, with out them this world would be Unlivable.

 

[ShowStopper]

Guys - stick to the topic at hand - no idle chit chat on this thread pls.

Sorry will try to keep it to the topic.

 

[Invictus]

I just wanted to know if peeps were laughing with me or at me.

 

[ShowStopper]

I just wanted to know if peeps were laughing with me or at me.

I don't know about others but I can assure you I wasn't laughing at you or with you. I was laughing at the POST OF THE WEEK WINNER

 

[Strike]

In regards to deviating from the topic that has happened slightly in this thread. It did not happen in the Science in Islam thread nor in the one sided debate I had with z10 on genetics, which he has not abandoned after only about 3 posts.

This one deviated partly by my own fault and partly by the willfull attempts to move off the key issues comma.

 

[Napa]

Ok chaps ( propeller heads and those with Physics A Levels etc ):

Pls go to this link:

http://islam.speed-light.info/relativity_quran.htm

and tell me that the calculations there make sense - if they do, this will be a "discovery" of stupendous proportions !

Here is some part of the website



Go to the link below:

http://islam.speed-light.info/relativity_quran.htm

and let me know what you think

An analysis of this was done by Prof. Dr. Arnold Neumaier, Institute of Mathematics, University of Vienna. He concluded:

It will come as no exaggeration if one says the story of the >>New Astronomical Quranic Method for The Determination Of The Greatest Speed<< is a typical overassessment of the importance of the discovery of a minor coincidence in the sea of possible relations between physically meaningful numbers and semantic interpretations of ancient texts.
https://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/sciandf/eng/c_in_quran.txt

 

[Adijazz1706]

An analysis of this was done by Prof. Dr. Arnold Neumaier, Institute of Mathematics, University of Vienna. He concluded:

How'd you manage to dig this ancient thread up? It doesn't even have Pakistani Army in it's title

 

[Madplayer]

How'd you manage to dig this ancient thread up? It doesn't even have Pakistani Army in it's title

You know how and why

 

[uberkoen]

wow that paper by Prof. Dr. Arnold Neumaier completely destroyed this theory.

 

[Technics 1210]

A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count. (Qur'an, 22:47)

This is relatively stated in the Qur'an ladies and gentlemen!

 

[uberkoen]

A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count. (Qur'an, 22:47)

This is relatively stated in the Qur'an ladies and gentlemen!

The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years. (Qur'an, 70:04)

So, which one is it? 1000 years or 50,000 years?

 

[Technics 1210]

The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years. (Qur'an, 70:04)

So, which one is it? 1000 years or 50,000 years?

A day with the Lord with respect to humans, compared with a day with the Angels and Spirits with respect to God, are 2 different aspects.

Which part are you not understanding?

This isn't a video game. Learn to read before you attempt to refute.

 

[uberkoen]

A day with the Lord with respect to humans, compared with a day with the Angels and Spirits with respect to God, are 2 different aspects.

Which part are you not understanding?

This isn't a video game. Learn to read before you attempt to refute.

but the book is meant for mankind surely the references given in the book should be relevant to humans, no? Should there be no consistency in the analogies and references used?

 

[Technics 1210]

but the book is meant for mankind surely the references given in the book should be relevant to humans, no? Should there be no consistency in the analogies and references used?

Correct, the book is GUIDANCE for mankind, hence also references angels and spirit for contextual information.

There is no analogy. Humans are not the same as Angels!

 

[uberkoen]

A day with the Lord with respect to humans, compared with a day with the Angels and Spirits with respect to God, are 2 different aspects.

Which part are you not understanding?

This isn't a video game. Learn to read before you attempt to refute.

Also, are you sure that's the case because tafseer says something completely different about the two Ayah's.

I like how you can just make anything up based on your own interpretation of the ayah's.

 

[Technics 1210]

Also, are you sure that's the case because tafseer says something completely different about the two Ayah's.

I like how you can just make anything up based on your own interpretation of the ayah's.

The Ayahs are clear when making the distinction between humans, angels, and spirits.

I am loving how you are trying to prove there is a contradiction.

Not happening son, for love nor money.

Even if grant your notion, quibbling over an integer doesn't disprove the fact relativity is mentioned in the Qur'an!

Been a long gaming night, speak soon!

 

[uberkoen]

The Ayahs are clear when making the distinction between humans, angels, and spirits.

I am loving how you are trying to prove there is a contradiction.

Not happening son, for love nor money.

Even if grant your notion, quibbling over an integer doesn't disprove the fact relativity is mentioned in the Qur'an!

Been a long gaming night, speak soon!

Can you please read the tafsir and see how these two ayah's are interpreted. Your understanding is completely wrong. The reference is not with regards to the time of Angels and Spirits with respect to God. It is something entirely different.

and secondly I don't need to prove any contradictions in the book because there are several and it is widely known and accepted.

Even Muslim scholars accept the contradictions within the book and refer to them as 'abrogations' in order to avoid the complications of having to explain why a divine book which is supposed to be perfect has so many contradictions.

 

[Napa]

How'd you manage to dig this ancient thread up? It doesn't even have Pakistani Army in it's title

My bad, I thought Dr. Mansour Hassab-Elnaby was a General in the Pakistani Army

 

[miandadrules]

The Ayahs are clear when making the distinction between humans, angels, and spirits.

I am loving how you are trying to prove there is a contradiction.

Not happening son, for love nor money.

Even if grant your notion, quibbling over an integer doesn't disprove the fact relativity is mentioned in the Qur'an!

Been a long gaming night, speak soon!

Amazing!

So much great knowledge in the Quran!

How many scientific breakthroughs have come prospectively directly from this source?

I know Islam is definitionally correct regardless of the facts but please enlighten us.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I never get this attitude of searching scientific theories in the Quran. Quran is a book of guidance not science. I dont like this approach of misinterpreting the Quran just to extract some theories from it(80% of those theories might as well change in the coming years with new informations).

 

[The_Odd_One]

All I see is twisting of general statements in the Koran and then presenting them as scientific discoveries.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years. (Qur'an, 70:04)

So, which one is it? 1000 years or 50,000 years?

Once upon a time pluto was planet as per your science & today I dont know what it is? SO once your science get settled then we will debate.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57244708

An international team of researchers has created the largest and most detailed map of the distribution of so-called dark matter in the Universe.

The results are a surprise because they show that it is slightly smoother and more spread out than the current best theories predict.

The observation appears to stray from Einstein's theory of general relativity - posing a conundrum for researchers.

The results have been published by the Dark Energy Survey Collaboration.

Dark Matter is an invisible substance that permeates space. It accounts for 80% of the matter in the Universe.

Astronomers were able to work out where it was because it distorts light from distant stars. The greater the distortion, the greater the concentration of dark matter.

Dr Niall Jeffrey, of École Normale Supérieure, in Paris, who pieced the map together, said that the result posed a "real problem" for physics.

"If this disparity is true then maybe Einstein was wrong," he told BBC News. "You might think that this is a bad thing, that maybe physics is broken. But to a physicist, it is extremely exciting. It means that we can find out something new about the way the Universe really is."

Prof Carlos Frenk, of Durham University, who was one of the scientists that built on the work of Albert Einstein and others to develop the current cosmological theory, said he had mixed emotions on hearing the news.

"I spent my life working on this theory and my heart tells me I don't want to see it collapse. But my brain tells me that the measurements were correct, and we have to look at the possibility of new physics," said Prof Frenk.

"Then my stomach cringes, because we have no solid grounds to explore because we have no theory of physics to guide us. It makes me very nervous and fearful, because we are entering a completely unknown domain and who knows what we are going to find."

Using the Victor M Blanco telescope in Chile, the team behind the new work analysed 100 million galaxies.

The map shows how dark matter sprawls across the Universe. The black areas are vast areas of nothingness, called voids, where the laws of physics might be different. The bright areas are where dark matter is concentrated. They are called "halos" because right in the centre is where our reality exists. In their midst are galaxies like our own Milky Way, shining brightly like tiny gems on a vast cosmic web.

According to Dr Jeffrey, who is also part of a department at University College London, the map, clearly shows that galaxies are part of a larger invisible structure.

"No one in the history of humanity has been able to look out into space and see where dark matter is to such an extent. Astronomers have been able to build pictures of small patches, but we have unveiled vast new swathes which show much more of its structure. For the first time we can see the Universe in a different way."

But the new dark matter map is not showing quite what astronomers expected. They have an accurate idea of the distribution of matter 350, 000 years after the Big Bang, from a European Space Agency orbiting observatory called Planck. It measured the radiation still present from that moment, called the cosmic microwave background, or more poetically, the "afterglow of creation".

Drawing on the ideas of Einstein, astronomers, such as Prof Frenk, developed a model to calculate how matter should disperse over the next 13.8bn years to the present day. But the actual observations from the new map are out by a few per cent - it shows that matter is slightly too evenly spread.

As a result, Prof Frenk thinks there may be big changes afoot in our understanding of the cosmos.

"We may have uncovered something really fundamental about the fabric of the Universe. The current theory rests on very sketchy pillars made of sand. And what we may be seeing is the collapse of one of those pillars."

But others, such as Prof Ofer Lahav, of University College London, have a more conservative view.

"The big question is whether Einstein's theory is perfect. It seems to pass every test but with some deviations here and there. Maybe the astrophysics of the galaxies just needs some tweaks. In the history of cosmology there are examples where problems went away, but also examples when the thinking shifted. It will be fascinating to see if the current 'tension' in Cosmology will lead to a new paradigm shift," he said.

The DES collaboration consists of over 400 scientists from 25 institutions in seven countries.

 

[Napa]

All I see is twisting of general statements in the Koran and then presenting them as scientific discoveries.

Precisely!

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57244708

Advancements in science occur, that does not mean science is wrong. If you want evidence that science is correct then just look at the sky, yes that is a plane flying, something that science made. Or look at your smartphone.

Btw, I like your posts in general.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Religion and solar system

What is religion's take on solar system? Tbf I think all the religions were not qualified enough to make any theories on science but to our religious experts here, what is the religions take on it? I read some stories which were no better than fantastical and fairytales you hear in childhood from your parents.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Lol at this thread.

Religion is faith. Literal trust in God.

what is the religions take on it?

Google that.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Lol at this thread.

Religion is faith. Literal trust in God.


Google that.

I read about Venus being a honey-trap or something like that and I knew that was it.

 

[PetroDollars]

I read about Venus being a honey-trap or something like that and I knew that was it.

Mars is for men, venus is for women.

 

[guna]

Religions do not know about solar system. Whatever little religion talks about our cosmos is a complete joke.

 

[Tubs]

Lol.

Clutching at straws, as usual. So many religious folk point to incredibly vague verses in their holybooks, and try to rationalise it post-hoc with established science in a desperate attempt to claim that their holybook said it first.