Israeli missile hits Iran, with blasts heard in centre of country [Post Updated #645]

[Black Zero]

So, what would you have done in 1945?

Nothing would have been the best response in 1945.

Conventional war would have been another option

Killing Innocents? sorry, not in my plans.

 

[James]

Still not answered the question.

Seem's to me that you're avoiding it due to the fact that, to you, 150,000+ Japanese civilian deaths were justified as long as some other idiot pushes the button.

I refuse to answer your question because it is completely ridiculous. I have proposed a narrative of history, and standing by it does not make me a murderer.

All you have done so far is pontificate like a spoilt child.

Like I said, according to your logic it is actually down to you to first offer a viable alternative. It should also be an alternative that would have caused less bloodshed tha the Bomb, otherwise (again, by your logic) you are an armchair warrior who is 'justifying' murder.

 

[James]

I already did. Just go back and re-read the relevant post.

What viable alternative was that? Explain.

 

[James]

Nothing would have been the best response in 1945.

Conventional war would have been another option

Killing Innocents? sorry, not in my plans.

'Conventional war' would have involved a ground invasion of Japan in which millions of people would be killed: American and Japanese soldiers and, yes, many many Japanese civilians from the outset. 220,000 was the military estimate - and if the proportion of civilian casualties had been anything like the norm for World War II, they would have been separate and astronomical. So 214,000 deaths versus millions - which do you choose?

 

[Yossarian]

I refuse to answer your question because it is completely ridiculous. I have proposed a narrative of history, and standing by it does not make me a murderer.

All you have done so far is pontificate like a spoilt child.

Like I said, according to your logic it is actually down to you to first offer a viable alternative. It should also be an alternative that would have caused less bloodshed tha the Bomb, otherwise (again, by your logic) you are an armchair warrior who is 'justifying' murder.

I never said you were a murderer.

I simply asked you the question whether it's only ok if somebody else presses the button or would you have been prepared to do it yourself.

Your reluctance to answer the question is an answer in itself.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I can't believe people are supporting the dropping of nukes on Japan, not just one but two bombs. But then again as a child here in Britain and I would assume in other parts of Europe and America it's drummed into you that it was a good thing which saved lives. In fact the memory of WW2 keeps on being bought back to even help justify current wars.

The truth is totally different. The Americans dropped the bomb to take revenge on the Japanese and to show the rest of the world their power.

All this nonsense about saving lives in pure BS. Nobody who is serious about saving lives would drop two bombs which cause so much destruction. The Japanese were warned about the bomb at the Potsdam conference and were about to quit their war. The Japanese only attacked Pear Harbour yet the yanks bombed Japanese civilians. Remember at the first the yanks make up lies about those areas being only military or industrial sites.

 

[James]

I never said you were a murderer.

I simply asked you the question whether it's only ok if somebody else presses the button or would you have been prepared to do it yourself.

Your reluctance to answer the question is an answer in itself.

Like I've said about six times now, what you are trying to claim is all for nought until you offer a viable alternative to the Bomb. An alternative that would have caused less casualties.

Diplomacy? Impossible.
Ground invasion? More deaths than the Bomb.

What's left?

So if I back the existing narrative of history it doesn't matter whether I could pick up the red handset or not, what matters is that I have the strongest retrospective argument. This is not a moral game of truth or dare, it is analysis of a historical event.

Provide an actual counter-argument to use of the Bomb. I beg you.

 

[James]

I can't believe people are supporting the dropping of nukes on Japan, not just one but two bombs. But then again as a child here in Britain and I would assume in other parts of Europe and America it's drummed into you that it was a good thing which saved lives. In fact the memory of WW2 keeps on being bought back to even help justify current wars.

The truth is totally different. The Americans dropped the bomb to take revenge on the Japanese and to show the rest of the world their power.

All this nonsense about saving lives in pure BS. Nobody who is serious about saving lives would drop two bombs which cause so much destruction. The Japanese were warned about the bomb at the Potsdam conference and were about to quit their war. The Japanese only attacked Pear Harbour yet the yanks bombed Japanese civilians. Remember at the first the yanks make up lies about those areas being only military or industrial sites.

The Japanese were out of control and had already killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians and American soldiers. Ground invasion of Japan would have caused many more than 200,000 further deaths on both sides.

So - what would you have done instead? It's the question that nobody has been able to answer so far.

 

[Yossarian]

What viable alternative was that? Explain.

You claim to be an historian. Just re-read the relevant post in this thread.

Besides, if it was a choice between, with the press of a button, definitely, instantly, killing 150,000+ innocent men, women and babies or risk an uknown number of potential civilian casualties, I would rather avoid the definitely and instantly.

 

[James]

So you back ground invasion because levels of casualties are unknown (projected as astronomical)

...So by your logic are you then an armchair warrior who is disregarding civilian life?

...No I don't think you are, nor am I an armchair warrior for trying to deduce which strategy presented the lesser evil.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Neither of us are monstrous. That's it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Japanese were out of control and had already killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians and American soldiers. Ground invasion of Japan would have caused many more than 200,000 further deaths on both sides.

So - what would you have done instead? It's the question that nobody has been able to answer so far.

How many American civilians did they kill? Of course they weren't angels but that's nothing to do with the question of whether it was right to drop not one but two nukes.

All America had to do is defend their own bases and wait for Japan to quit the war which they were going to do after being threatened with the bomb. The threat was enough.

People are not told of this quote in school. Have a guess whose quote it is.

'Japan was already defeated and dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary'

 

[James]

I haven't read anything of Japan being ready to surrender due to a mere threat, and would like to be directed to the book(s) which claim this.

Is that quote from the same source that got debased on the previous page?

 

[Yossarian]

So if I back the existing narrative of history it doesn't matter whether I could pick up the red handset or not, what matters is that I have the strongest retrospective argument. This is not a moral game of truth or dare, it is analysis of a historical event..

Except that unless you ask yourself the question as to whether you would do it, if history repeated itself, others will do it on your behalf and claim that you were all mouth and no action, considering that you agreed with what they did.

Only if one one is prepared to do it oneself should one then ask someone else to do it on their behalf, if the need ever arises again

 

[KingKhanWC]

I haven't read anything of Japan being ready to surrender due to a mere threat, and would like to be directed to the book(s) which claim this.

There are probably hundreds of books which explain what occurred at the potsdam declaration. Japan was ready to surrender after being threatened.

Is that quote from the same source that got debased on the previous page?

Dwight D. Eisenhower, the supreme commander of the allied forces in Europe and future President of the US.

 

[Robert]

I haven't read anything of Japan being ready to surrender due to a mere threat

Of course not. Because they weren't. Truman threatened them with the nukes on 26 July 1945. They carried on fighting. The first nuke was detonated eleven days later.

We Britons were lucky that the Jewish quantum scientists fled Nazi Germany, else London would have gone instead. Even so, the Nazis were very close to their own nuclear weapon, and they had short-range ballistic missiles too!

Whoever found it first would have used it first.

 

[James]

Ike expressed his opinion but there was obviously a lot of intelligence contrary to that. His comments have been debased as often as they have been supported.

In 1959, the man who led the raid on Pearl Harbor, Mitsuo Fuchida, met Paul Tibbets, the pilot of the Enola Gay, which dropped 'Little Boy' on Hiroshima. Fuchida had this to say:

"You did the right thing. You know the Japanese attitude of that time, how fanatic they were. They'd die for the Emperor. Every man, woman and child would have resisted the invasion with sticks and stones, if necessary. Can you imagine what a slaughter it would be to invade Japan?"

I don't buy the claims for diplomacy but will seek out the apparently blanket supporting literature.

 

[James]

Of course not. Because they weren't. Truman threatened them with the nukes on 26 July 1945. They carried on fighting. The first nuke was detonated eleven days later.

No need for facts to get in the way of a bit of anti-Western prattle though is there?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Of course not. Because they weren't. Truman threatened them with the nukes on 26 July 1945. They carried on fighting. The first nuke was detonated eleven days later.

Japan suffered many defeats, were on their way down and ready to surrender. You make it sound like they were ravaging areas of New York or Washington.lol

The Japanese continued fighting for over a week even after the first nuke was dropped. Continued fighting doesn't mean they were a threat to the US.

If people want to believe the only way to make the Japanese surrender was to drop nukes on them then it's up to you but plenty of people including US commanders and Presidents didn't.

Please start a new thread on this , the topic of the thread has been derailed.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally Posted by Whippy
I haven't read anything of Japan being ready to surrender due to a mere threat, and would like to be directed to the book(s) which claim this

.

Of course not. Because they weren't. Truman threatened them with the nukes on 26 July 1945. They carried on fighting. The first nuke was detonated eleven days later.

How about quotes from Dwight D. Eisenhower, Former President of the US of A ?

In 1945 ... , Secretary of War Stimson visited my headquarters in Germany, [and] informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act.... During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and second because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face.'

Mandate for Change, 1953-1956: The White House Years, A Personal Account
Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[KingKhanWC]

No need for facts to get in the way of a bit of anti-Western prattle though is there?

The US is an imperial terrorist state which is responsible for some of the most heinous crimes ever seen in humanity including being the only nation to nuke countless civilians. Everyone in their right minds should be anti-American imperialism.

We now have this nation threatening Iran not long after it destroyed Iraq and is currently destroying Afghanistan. Since when have Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan ever attacked the US?

Once upon a time all roads led to Rome but now Rome is a figment of history. Imperialist empires which commit heinous crimes don't last and the US will be no different.

 

[Robert]

.How about quotes from Dwight D. Eisenhower, Former President of the US of A ?

Ike's quote does not refute the point made by whippy and I. They were threatened with the nukes and didn't surrender. After they were hit with the nukes, they surrendered.

I'm curious to know what Ike would have felt, had he been in charge in the Pacific theatre instead of MacArthur, if he were given the task of invading the Japanese mainland.

I think old Harry S. wanted to shock world opinion, putting the wind up Uncle Joe in particular, and making Ike's future job as President easier.

 

[Yossarian]

Ike's quote does not refute the point made by whippy and I. They were threatened with the nukes and didn't surrender. After they were hit with the nukes, they surrendered.

I'm curious to know what Ike would have felt, had he been in charge in the Pacific theatre instead of MacArthur, if he were given the task of invading the Japanese mainland.

I think old Harry S. wanted to shock world opinion, putting the wind up Uncle Joe in particular, and making Ike's future job as President easier.

I'm sorry Robert, I did'nt realise you knew more about the state of the war at the time than General (later to be President) Dwight D. Eisenhower, or The U.S. Secretary of War at the time, Henry Stimson?

....--over the moral reservations of Secretary of War Henry Stimson, General Dwight Eisenhower and a number of the Manhattan Project scientists--to use the atomic bomb in the hopes of bringing the war to a quick end.

http://www.history.com/topics/bombing-of-hiroshima-and-nagasaki

As this thread is about Iran, and since you appear to possess greater knowledge than the U.S. Intelligence analysts, has President Obama contacted you yet for advice on whether to attack Iran's nuclear sites or not ?

 

[Yossarian]

U.S. War Game Sees Perils of Israeli Strike Against Iran
Matt Dunham/Associated Press

Gen. James N. Mattis, who commands American forces in the Middle East, was said to be troubled by results of the war game.
By MARK MAZZETTI and THOM SHANKER
Published: March 19, 2012


WASHINGTON — A classified war simulation held this month to assess the repercussions of an Israeli attack on Iran forecasts that the strike would lead to a wider regional war, which could draw in the United States and leave hundreds of Americans dead, according to American officials.

......

The two-week war game, called Internal Look, played out a narrative in which the United States found it was pulled into the conflict after Iranian missiles struck a Navy warship in the Persian Gulf, killing about 200 Americans, according to officials with knowledge of the exercise. The United States then retaliated by carrying out its own strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities.

The initial Israeli attack was assessed to have set back the Iranian nuclear program by roughly a year, and the subsequent American strikes did not slow the Iranian nuclear program by more than an additional two years
.......


Many experts have predicted that Iran would try to carefully manage the escalation after an Israeli first strike in order to avoid giving the United States a rationale for attacking with its far superior forces. Thus, it might use proxies to set off car bombs in world capitals or funnel high explosives to insurgents in Afghanistan to attack American and NATO troops.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/w...s-of-an-israeli-attack-on-iran.html?ref=world

In other words, an attack by Israel on Iranian facilities would risk a wider regional war, and yet would only delay the Iranians by a year or two.

 

[ahsan17]

Seems like dejavu.. we've all seen this before. It was roughly 9 years ago when a certain nation was building WMDs and was about to attack US and Israel with those WMDs. And of course 85% of Americans gobbled up those lies. No reason why this sad excuse of a nation won't gobble up that garbage again. History, of course, repeats itself. God bless America.

 

[Qelic]

Seems like dejavu.. we've all seen this before. It was roughly 9 years ago when a certain nation was building WMDs and was about to attack US and Israel with those WMDs. And of course 85% of Americans gobbled up those lies. No reason why this sad excuse of a nation won't gobble up that garbage again. History, of course, repeats itself. God bless America.

not everything in this world is what it seem like from outside esp politics and wars ....




... hi guys ...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Hi PJ, been a while. I thought you run off with that Indian chick.

Anyway what do you make of all this hype?

 

[Qelic]

Hi PJ, been a while. I thought you run off with that Indian chick.

Anyway what do you make of all this hype?

Hi KK ...

Indian chick ?

u called it what it really is ... just hype and nothing else ... US is not this stupid that it would gift Iran what Iranians want most right now ...i.e. a stupid adventure from Israel ... For Our mullahs that would be a blessing ...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Hi KK ...

Indian chick ?

u called it what it really is ... just hype and nothing else ... US is not this stupid that it would gift Iran what Iranians want most right now ...i.e. a stupid adventure from Israel ... For Our mullahs that would be a blessing ...

Can't remember her name but I went to your introductions page to see if you were about and saw a long drawn out convo .

Agree this hype has been going on for years now. One of the motives imo is to deflect from the continuining oppression of the Palestinians.

 

[Qelic]

Can't remember her name but I went to your introductions page to see if you were about and saw a long drawn out convo .

Agree this hype has been going on for years now. One of the motives imo is to deflect from the continuining oppression of the Palestinians.

U mean ... lol ... cmon ...
I was at my home ... not this home but real home ...


anyways ,

US is not interested in Striking Iran ... ( They never were )

Israel Cant ....

(P)GCC Cant ....

and thats because of military and Political reasons ( which we can discuss )... so if enemies can just talk and talk then whats the point in being concerned ?

 

[KingKhanWC]

and thats because of military and Political reasons ( which we can discuss )... so if enemies can just talk and talk then whats the point in being concerned ?

Hope you enjoyed your time at home.

What about the sanctions are they affecting Iran on the ground or is it again hype iyo?

 

[Qelic]

I did , as always.... Thanks !

Sanction ? at common man level ... Not much ... We have seen alot more ... worst times ... less than billion dollar foreign reserves ... oil trade cut , half a million deaths etc ...
Iran is not this weak as western media tries to portray ...
I actually spent less time in Iran then what I spent at my wife's place who is not even distantly Iranian ... so dint get a chance to move to alot of places . Obviously when you go back to your people after some time than u care less abt politics .

One thing for sure , Thanks to this recent chest thumping by Israel and US ... youth is inclining back towards IR concept ... Mullahs r gaining strong support once again and that in the urban Areas like tehron which was highlighted in 2009 protests ... heavy turnout during recent elections showed that and i myself felt at times talking to few ppl ... Spirit of Islamic republic alive in iranian youth is an asset for Iranian leadership which cant be paralleled by any missile or bomb ... There might be Few rotten eggs who may show their faces next time ... well we r not libya or Suriye so these idiots donot matter to us ...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good to hear, always appreciate your insight.

 

[Qelic]

in reference to 2nd para of my post # 191 .... some pics from recent Bahman 22 Enghelab anniversay ... massive amounts of youth took part in bahman 22 Enghelab Eslami celebration all over the country ...

 

[Namak_Halaal]

If I may, I would like to answer Javelin’s question.

If I had the choice between ending a global war and ending a petty skirmish on a border of two countries, I would press that button to end the greater of two evils.

WW2 was the lowest point in human history IMO. Historical buildings, human races, morality, and history, all out the window – nothing was sacred.

People seem to forget that Pakistan, India, and Israel, not just core topics of PP debate, but identities, did not exist during WW2. These countries were incepted soon after WW2 (the beginning of the fall of the British Empire) and had the atomic bomb not detonated over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there’s no doubt in my mind we’d be living in a different world today.

The atomic bomb was a game changer. No one, not even the Americans could envisage the damage caused by such a weapon. Sure they tested the weapon in some Arizona desert, but the effect of the bomb on human life was unknown.

By dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan, two elements were achieved. 1] It ended WW2. 2] Established the USA as a superpower.

Today it’s the same Atomic bomb that acts as a deterrent, and protects nations, and I rather have a credible deterrent than live a life of persistent fear.

Oh, this is nothing to say of the technological achievements born out of WW2 which remain integral to human subsistence even today.

There’s an old maxim – you cannot cook an omelette without breaking an egg.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Interesting post NH.

IMO the bomb itself was a game changer and there wasn't a need to drop two on Japan as the Japanese were alreadly ready to give up. Japan were losing battles left, right and centre having no chance of defeating the Americans.

It is interesting to note when new empires emerge they usually bring a new type of military advantage with him which the US did.

I hate to think what type of weapon(s) the next empire will show the world. I have a feeling all this 'alien aircraft' we see could be part of it.

 

[Qelic]

I hate to think what type of weapon(s) the next empire will show the world. I have a feeling all this 'alien aircraft' we see could be part of it.

mass deception is the next generation weapon ... big and loud mouths will win .

 

[KingKhanWC]

mass deception is the next generation weapon ... big and loud mouths will win .

Agree. As the good Dr Ahmadinejad said we live in times of ideas not bombs.

These generation of weapons are alreadly here aren't they? Since the 24 hour rolling news channels deception of the masses has been an artform. People are constantly bombarded with what they should believe without giving them a choice. This type of mental warfare kills the mind which saves the work of killing the body.

Believe it or not PJ but people in the UK actually believe Iran is the biggest evil in the form of a nation since Hitler's Germany.

In your view is it possible to combat this new generation weapon and how?

 

[Yossarian]

Agree. As the good Dr Ahmadinejad said we live in times of ideas not bombs.

These generation of weapons are alreadly here aren't they? Since the 24 hour rolling news channels deception of the masses has been an artform. People are constantly bombarded with what they should believe without giving them a choice. This type of mental warfare kills the mind which saves the work of killing the body.

Believe it or not PJ but people in the UK actually believe Iran is the biggest evil in the form of a nation since Hitler's Germany.

In your view is it possible to combat this new generation weapon and how?

The Industrial Military complex always needs a bogey man to justify the billions on armaments as well as, more recently, security devices, CCTV and scanners in and outside every shop, mall, office building, airport, bus and railway station and every other public place that you can think of, including CCTV cameras at traffic-lights! (and not just to catch motorists running red-lights).

It used to be The Soviet Union, and when that broke up, it became Iraq, then Libya, South Korea, Osama and now it's Iran's turn (with Pakistan next).

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Industrial Military complex always needs a bogey man to justify the billions on armaments as well as, more recently, security devices, CCTV and scanners in and outside every shop, mall, office building, airport, bus and railway station and every other public place that you can think of, including CCTV cameras at traffic-lights! (and not just to catch motorists running red-lights).

It used to be The Soviet Union, and when that broke up, it became Iraq, then Libya, South Korea, Osama and now it's Iran's turn (with Pakistan next).

Don't forget the bankers they always need wars to lend money out and then gain much more back with interest.

Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s wife "If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” "

People are easily led into believing this good guys v bad guys bs. Both WW1 and WW2 were financed by the same side.

 

[Qelic]

Agree. As the good Dr Ahmadinejad said we live in times of ideas not bombs.

These generation of weapons are alreadly here aren't they? Since the 24 hour rolling news channels deception of the masses has been an artform. People are constantly bombarded with what they should believe without giving them a choice. This type of mental warfare kills the mind which saves the work of killing the body.

Believe it or not PJ but people in the UK actually believe Iran is the biggest evil in the form of a nation since Hitler's Germany.

In your view is it possible to combat this new generation weapon and how?

i Know Iran is portrayed by western and even the arabi domestic media as some Nazi style state
( sometimes i like it that way ) ... nuclear weapons , missiles , threats , IRGC , violence blah blah ... what % of the viewers have actually been to Iran ? and even in that < 0.1 % who have stepped inside Iran luckily ... how many understood the system and socio politics of the state ? .... obviously ppl accept what they r fed . In contrast how many ppl know that Iran ( along with turkiye ) has unparalleled infra structure and industrial base in whole muslim world ? how abt that crazy high 90 % literacy of Iran ? ... just because no one was there to tell them or showed cool footages .... thats how deception is created and in recent times , this tool has been used greatly like in Libyan case ... so called uprising footages were shot in qatar lol ... i m sure u know rest ...

Few years back we didnt had the open media policy in Iran esp in regards with military ... There were no released pics of military equipment , no info , nothing ... who would have ensured Iranian population that Artesh can pretty much slaughter anyone in the region .... in recent years things have changed for us now we have wild private and public news agencies covering events , excersizes , info seminars and exhibition etc etc so efficiently that Just by looking at news a common Iranian would feel secure and proud ( we all r ) .... we r launching different language channels ( arabi , espanyol recently with 50 more waiting for license including pashto , russian , chinese ) .... Info websites and blogs r being made ...... all that has done two things .. A common Iranian can now have his confusions cleared and grow close to IRI concept which i have felt myself ... secondly a place in international Media circles where u can present ur own version to general population ... I agree with Dr. Vali Nasr that Iran doesnt want to be the militant outsider like what DPRK has done to itself ...

 

[Qelic]

Don't forget the bankers they always need wars to lend money out and then gain much more back with interest.

Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s wife "If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” "

People are easily led into believing this good guys v bad guys bs. Both WW1 and WW2 were financed by the same side.

not just bankers , its politicians esp the theocratic ones who wants wars most ... had not Arabis attacked us in 1980 , the new Enghelab govt. would have collapsed on its own in next 3-4 years ... but thanks to the camel guys , Iran revolutionaries got the excuse of rallying whole population around them ... Arabis became the new villains for iranians and wow ... mothers who used to wear skirts in Shah era gave birth to a whole new generation of angry basiji fidayi kids ... thats how that war benefited the IRI ideology ... otherwise the new faces were totally raw handed in running the state , even the Shahi military left and young passouts and volunteers with little or no knowledge of warfare were given the uniforms ... they were extremely motivated though ....

An attack on Iran right now would not benefit anybody more than it would benefit Islamic republic itself ... first of all Iran would get a free pass to throw back the rotten NPT in face of west ... Then it will use the excuse to put schit in (P)GCC countries , something that Iran somewhat already is doing ... Then last but not least Iranian leadership would gain so much support from population that ppl will forget the imposed war ...
Anways military wise its not possible for any hostile state other than US to take on Iran ...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Thanks for the posts Pj. Repetition is another tool used by the decievers. As they say tell a lie again and again it becomes the truth. The misleading quote they use of Ahmadinjed about wiping off Israel from the map(which he didn't say) is then turned into Hitler wanted to kill the Jews and they we have another Hitler, blah blah.

The other tool is hiding the other side of the argument as we have seen in Libya and now in Syria. Showing footage of some protests and then claiming these are by the masses. They even tried this with Iran ,once showing footage from a totally different country but it failed. Many believe the Arab spring was fashioned on their idea of causing unrest in Iran which failed so they used the same tactic in the Arab world.

 

[Qelic]

u qouted the great man Ahamdinejad .. he has some personal problems too with israel i guess ... recently he called them germs , before they were cancer lol ... anyways his guys received a heavy defeat in first round of Majlise Shora elections ... Dr. Ali larijani is probably the next President as it seems ...

Did u see the whole Danny Scam ? lol ... though Suriye is safe ... Assad aint going anywhere ... Libya was another case and Gadaffi was left alone .. But Iran , Russia , China have direct interests in Suriye and they have their presence there ... to some , its a win-partial win situation for Iran even if Assad would have gone .

 

[KingKhanWC]

What is Dr Ali Larijani like pj? Is he similar to Ahmadinejad? I like him a lot, the guy has some great arguments which rarely get aired on western t.v.

Yeah that Danny guy turned out to be some cheap British actor.lol Here's a clip for anyone who hasn't seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p-DCZxsrt9I

Don't know if it's true but there was a report of Russian anti-terror troops arriving in Syria. Russia has denied it in public.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-denies-sent-anti-terror-unit-syria-125139800--abc-news.html

How do you see Russia's role in this?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Its only a matter of time before Syrian shia minority rule is ended.... then its all efforts on Iran.

If there is an attack on Iran, which I doubt there will be, but suppose there was, what can the Iranians realistically respond with? Destroy GCC... what else?

 

[Qelic]

Dr. Larijani is a politician unlike Ahmadinejad and belongs to the famous mazandarani Larijani political family ... has served in IRGC military background like other candidates e.g. Major Ghalibaaf ( current mayor of tehron and possible candidate for 2013 elections ) . He has a PhD in western philosophy and was the top negotiator on the Nuclear program during his term as a security council Secratary then served as Speaker for Majlis ... before that he looked after IRIB , was the youngest among the rafsanjani cabinet ... I wont call him a hawk like Ahamdinejad ... he , Salehi ( FM) are more like into diplomacy although He and his ISE factions r very much against Ahamadinejad due to Presidents support for Asfandyar Mashaei and his ultra nationalists .... Next President post will be very important because ppl suspect that Supreme Leader health is declining and power balance may shift if something bad happens ... Larijani seems to me as the perfect man to take the seat .

 

[Qelic]

thats him

 

[KingKhanWC]

Best of luck to him, hopefully those glasses and the geeky style look will make it harder for the zion neo-cons to cast him as another hitler.lol

 

[Qelic]

KK its funny to us ... all these zionis and fats sheikhs cant do Schit abt Iran other than just chest thumping and barking in air which they have been doing for last 12 years so it really doesnt matter what they say abt Iranian leadership ... yes we were weak in 90s ... but that time has gone now ... they think of us as Nazis then they will get the Nazis ...

 

[KingKhanWC]

PJ, I have always maintained Muslim nations should follow the Iranian model. As you say since the 90's Iran has grown strong and even it's enemies can only talk trash now. Drones are killing Pakistani's weekly while over the border drones are being taken down by Iran.

 

[Robert]

I'm sorry Robert, I did'nt realise you knew more about the state of the war at the time than General (later to be President) Dwight D. Eisenhower, or The U.S. Secretary of War at the time, Henry Stimson?

Secretary Stimpson did not express an opinion in your Ike quote.

I can equally easily say sorry Javelin, I didn't know that you knew more about the state of war at the time than General MacArthur (Army Commander Pacific, unlike Ike who was in Europe) and President Truman, both of whom wanted the nukes deployed in order to limit further US casualties.

While the Imperial Japanese were beyond offensive action by August 1945, they were certainly still able to defend their homeland and if they didn't surrender then the US would have had a big problem. They were on the point of bankruptcy and had absorbed heavy casualties taking Iwo Jima. Taking the Japanese main islands would have been much, much worse - I don't think they could have done it. They projected one million Allied casualties and several million Japanese casualties, most of whom would be civilians. Set against this, the death toll at Hiroshima and Nagasaki looks much more acceptable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

 

[Qelic]

PJ, I have always maintained Muslim nations should follow the Iranian model. As you say since the 90's Iran has grown strong and even it's enemies can only talk trash now. Drones are killing Pakistani's weekly while over the border drones are being taken down by Iran.

( Some parts of the post r taken from another post of mine from past )

Iranian Model is a very complex ideology itself .... It is a mix of theorcracy , ultra nationalism and even leftist tendencies ( political only ) ... 1953 28 Mordad coup laid the foundations of what was conceived on 22 bahman 1979 . Anti Shah and Anti US sentiments were shared by both the religious and leftists factions ... The now anti IRI and almost in-existent MEK , Tudeh leftists used to hold Anti Imperialism rallies with Imam Khomeini and Dr. Ali Shariati posters in their hands .... The Enghelab was not meant to install the Shiite extremist Modern day Saffavids in tehron ... things were fine with a ideological balance between right and left but the Imposed war turned the whole revolution ideology from o to 180 degrees ... US backed Arabis showed their faces on Iranian borders and Whole Fikr Enghelab turned around into something else .... clerics became the only power and for early 2-3 years of war whole system revolved around just religion and religion ... after arabi armies were kicked on thier rears by Iran in 1982 the Mullahs gained enormous support from the average iranians which offcourse they deserved and the majority of nationalists saw them as Saviors and heroes of Iran ... Arabs did the mistake of attacking Iranian population and this put ppl behind Clerics ... so the idea of Iranian nationalism got mixed into the Religion and this all happened courtesy the US and Arabs ... thanks to them .... Had not war happened the two ideologies would have clashed and probably the newly found Islamic republic system would have collapsed in favor of a Nationalist govt.

If Arabs would have just started the war in name of fighting against religious revolutionary extremists the nationalist iranians might have just distanced themselves from war but the rants like ""Annexation of khuz" and "Breaking Iran from Middle into two" from arabs put the nationalists and Mullahs in one line ... two ideologies mingled up and that resulted into crazy stiff resistance arabi armies faced from volunteers and common Iranian youth ...

if Current status of Islamic republic is maintained for next 10-15 years then nationalism would mix more into Islamic Ideology itself esp in case of a military confrontation against Israel + Arabs ( which btw is highly unlikely on military and geopolitical grounds ) .

btw Idea of supporting nationalism on basis of religion is not new to Iran ... Safavid Shah Ismail tried to convert whole Iranic region into Shiite forcefully not because he himself was a devout Shiite ... He wanted to Give the Iranic region an exclusive identity to differentiate it from Ottoman turkiye and their occupied Arabs . He dint totally succeed but not failed either ... Although Not all Saffavid Shahs shared same ideology but it proved to be useful for Iranian Empire in longer run ...

Iranian Leadership is not stupid either , they actively started the building of Modern Iranian state putting serious hard work into education and grooming of youth and Infra structure ... our literacy rate went up like crazy and Infra structure ... well those who have seen Iran can tell u the difference from rest of the moslem world ( excluding turkiye ) ... Education , Infra structure , Industrial base ( tell me if u wanna see iranian made products i can provide a very good link ) and recently Military sector ... Our military was merely a huge group of extremist militias in 1990s ... lack off foreign support , embargoes and sanctions were hitting it badly though the level of crude extremism and fundamentalism in Iranian artesh ( military ) was unmatched to its enemies ... A reverse engineering based local production policy was adapted in late 1990s and early 00s ... high literacy rate and that too of technological nature came in handy ... as a result today we r the strongest military might in the region as was said by famous US Gen Abizaid , having biggest unconventional warfare as was said by US CAS General Tommy Franks ( u can Google it ) ... this is not a military forum otherwise i would have gone into details .... Our air defense units can bring down a Stealth Plane without even hitting it physically and Our cruise missile could not be stopped by modern stealth Ship ( INS hanit ) ... Global fire power ratings rank Iran and Turkiye as the strongest Moslem Countries ( 2012 ratings ) followed by Egypt , Pakistan ..... Ppl talk abt israel attack .. for those who understand ... it was possible upto late 1990s or early 2000s because we were literally sitting naked in terms of equipment ... Israeli attack is not possible now ... Strategically almost impossible .... This is just talk and Israelis know that it is beyond their or (P)GCC capabilities to take on Iran thats why they r trying to drag US in the equation ... correct word for what israel is doing right now is ... troll !!!!

 

[youboy]

'Azerbaijan granted Israel access to air bases on Iran border'

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...l-access-to-air-bases-on-iran-border-1.421428

 

[Yossarian]

'Azerbaijan granted Israel access to air bases on Iran border'

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...l-access-to-air-bases-on-iran-border-1.421428

If Azerbaijan does allow Israel to use it's airfields in any attack on Iran, then Azerbaijan will become a foe and a target for Iranian retaliation. Israel will not be in a position to help Azerbaijan in any significant way if that happens.

Furthermore, Azerbaijan getting involved in a Mid-East conflict will not please the Russians since they are liable to get dragged in.

Imagine the scenario:
* Israel attacks Iran.
* Israel uses Azerbaijan airfields to land after the attack.
* Iran retaliates, possibly in the Straights of Hormuz, possibly against American bases in the Gulf States and in Afghanistan, but almost definitely against Azerbaijan.
* Russia gets dragged in.
* All hell breaks loose.

Conclusion: U.S. is not going to be happy with Azerbaijan! and same goes for the Russians.

 

[Qelic]

First of all I am 100 % doubtful abt the authenticity of this news ... just few days ago Iranian DF and Azeri officials have met where Azeri side has said this out loud and clear that they r not going to permit any anti iranian activity on or from their soil .... ( previously Turkiye , Jordan , Qatar , UAE , Kuwait , Iraq , Afghanistan have said same ) . To me it seems like a Media Spice package . Media led Mass deception is on its extreme these days .... few days ago Israeli idiots were spreading the rumor that they have already destroyed iranian nuclear facilities ( to feed their own population off-course ) ... My God Lol .... delusional people ...

Anyways , For the sake of argument if we accept for a second that this BS is true ...

Georgia did same few years back ... Israel was providing them weapons like Recce Drones ... upgrading their attack aircraft , A2G missiles , Small surveillance radars , Spyder SPAAG etc ... Plus Saakashvilli was dieing to join NATO with hopes that NATO muscle might help them in Ossetian and Abkhazian dispute ... Through Turiye , Georgia even had access to NATO central EWCC ( early warning command control ) ... we all saw what Russia did to them in few hrs ... lack of war experience , military infra structure , lack of military logistics ( most important ) , all led to failure .... Few Iskanders and Su24 fencers of Russia took out entire Georgian air defense units and that was it ... no support from israel or turkiye came as probably was promised to Saakashvilli when he was being pumped up ....

Azerbaican on the other hand has even worst military ... I wont be going in details but it would take iran less than 4 days to destroy whole azerbaican ... not to mention that how much of the Shiite Azeri population would really stand for Aleyev the poodle when few Iranian MIRV launches will be flying over thier homes ... how would Aleyev deal with iranian fifth column sleeper cell AIP ? how abt Armenia ? what would russia be doing ? when Azeris have already indicated that they wouldnt be hosting russian ABM Shield anymore in Gabala and most probably are replacing them with NATO's one ? Heat would be too much for Aleyev to survive ...


On the other hand ... abt Israel ... for the last 12 years we have been discussing and discussing ... Iranian missiles , Israeli planes , Iranian radars , Israeli bombs ... its just a waste of time ... in short it cant happen . Military wise and Politically it is all impossible for Israel ... I wish it could happen because it would provide Iran with alot of advantages in region but it cant ... thats why israelis r just talking for last decade .

 

[Qelic]

If Azerbaijan does allow Israel to use it's airfields in any attack on Iran, then Azerbaijan will become a foe and a target for Iranian retaliation. Israel will not be in a position to help Azerbaijan in any significant way if that happens.

They did same to georgia ... recently a leak came out saying that Israel instead provided russia with key secrets of the military equipment it has sold to georgiaor possibly abt Gerogian military itself ... whole world was astonished that how Tor M1 and osa failed against few Su-25 and Su-24 lol

Furthermore, Azerbaijan getting involved in a Mid-East conflict will not please the Russians since they are liable to get dragged in.

Most probably not but if Armenia will be in danger than yes ...

Imagine the scenario:
* Israel attacks Iran.

and Iran attacks Israel back ... while israeli attack might consists of 8-12 attack planes ( of which how many will successfully reach their target ? ) ... Iranian response would include Hezbollah and Hamas along with the Barrage of ballistic missiles ( Shahab 3B and Sejjil most probably ) ... We dont know how much equipment would be transferred to Hezbollah or already has been by iran ... Strong IR tracking manpads along with mobile launcher Quasi ballistic missiles like Fateh 110 would do the job ...

* Israel uses Azerbaijan airfields to land after the attack.

and Iran attack azeri military bases esp those directed at Armenia .

* Iran retaliates, possibly in the Straights of Hormuz, possibly against American bases in the Gulf States and in Afghanistan, but almost definitely against Azerbaijan.

Yes but not until USA enters the conflict which it most likely wont ... political reasons


* Russia gets dragged in.

only if Armenia is attacked ...

* All hell breaks loose.

Thats the problem which worries everyone in dealing with Iran


Conclusion: U.S. is not going to be happy with Azerbaijan! and same goes for the Russians.

yeah but some ppl learn after getting it ... See shaaksvilli for example

.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Secretary Stimpson did not express an opinion in your Ike quote.

I can equally easily say sorry Javelin, I didn't know that you knew more about the state of war at the time than General MacArthur (Army Commander Pacific, unlike Ike who was in Europe) and President Truman, both of whom wanted the nukes deployed in order to limit further US casualties.

While the Imperial Japanese were beyond offensive action by August 1945, they were certainly still able to defend their homeland and if they didn't surrender then the US would have had a big problem. They were on the point of bankruptcy and had absorbed heavy casualties taking Iwo Jima. Taking the Japanese main islands would have been much, much worse - I don't think they could have done it. They projected one million Allied casualties and several million Japanese casualties, most of whom would be civilians. Set against this, the death toll at Hiroshima and Nagasaki looks much more acceptable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

Wow i cannot believe you tried to justify the atom bombs and the effects they have caused the japanese population even today from the radiation by quoting wikipedia and saying the americans had no other choice

 

[chacha kashmiri]

As for israel, iran it's the cold war all over again

 

[KingKhanWC]

I thought I would bump this instead of starting a new thread.

Did anybody see this at the UN?

6 months limit for a strike or just another bluff?

 

[speed]

you don't know how desperate the zionist are for ww3 to start america does not want it as they know it will destroy them.

 

[Yossarian]

I thought I would bump this instead of starting a new thread.

Did anybody see this at the UN?

6 months limit for a strike or just another bluff?

Apparently there is a comedy spoof on The Daily show with John Stewart, but I cannot watch it in the UK.
Anyone in the US watch it? And if so, can u upload it here?

 

[Random Aussie]

Hmmm this "time is running out" with Iran, has been running out for quite some time.....

 

[KingKhanWC]

Apparently there is a comedy spoof on The Daily show with John Stewart, but I cannot watch it in the UK.
Anyone in the US watch it? And if so, can u upload it here?

It wasn't that funny but this is brilliant.

 

[James]

To be fair not a lot seems to have happened with this since the thread was created.

Is it much ado about nothing? Well, not nothing, there is obviously a debate to be had but this foreshadowing of the End Times seems to be a discourse drummed up mainly by Internet users.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Hmmm this "time is running out" with Iran, has been running out for quite some time.....

Netanyahu has actually been going on about this since the early 90's.

 

[Random Aussie]

Netanyahu has actually been going on about this since the early 90's.

Sadly for the great liar, not many people are listening.

I dont think it would be a good thing for the world for Iran to have a bomb.

I am sure it is a bad thing for the world that Israel has one.

 

[anakin]

Sadly for the great liar, not many people are listening.

I dont think it would be a good thing for the world for Iran to have a bomb.

I am sure it is a bad thing for the world that Israel has one.

I rarely support limits on any technology spread, but Nukes, are like the "Bhrahmastra" from Hindu mythology, too deadly and in a fit of rage a person can destroy the whole world.
India and Pakistan haven't helped the world in anyway here either.

 

[Yossarian]

To be fair not a lot seems to have happened with this since the thread was created.

Is it much ado about nothing? Well, not nothing, there is obviously a debate to be had but this foreshadowing of the End Times seems to be a discourse drummed up mainly by Internet users.

It's better to have discussions on this topic, on the internet or otherwise, pointing out the possible ramifications of an attack and be left looking silly when no attack occurs, rather than ignore the whole thing and have a nasty surprise if an attack does occur and all hell breaks loose..

 

[OMB]

Israel ex-top spy reveals Mossad operations against Iran

The outgoing head of the Israeli spy agency Mossad has given a revelatory interview about the country's operations against Iran.

Yossi Cohen gave details about the theft of Iran's nuclear archive.

The warehouse raid in 2018 ferried tens of thousands of documents out of the country to Israel.

He also hinted at Israeli involvement in the destruction of Iran's nuclear facility at Natanz, and the assassination of a nuclear scientist.

Mr Cohen retired as the head of Mossad last week.

He spoke to journalist Ilan Dayan on Channel 12's Uvda documentary programme, which was broadcast on Israeli television on Thursday night.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appointed Mr Cohen as Mossad chief in late 2015. He joined the agency in 1982 after studying at university in London, and told the programme he had had "hundreds" of passports throughout his career.

The most revelatory moments in the interview were about the theft of Iran's nuclear archive.

Mr Netanyahu revealed the stolen files at a press conference in 2018, which he said proved Iran once covertly tried to make nuclear weapons and had secretly retained the know-how - an allegation Iran denied.

In 2018, Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu unveiled what he claimed to be Iran's secret atomic archive
Mr Cohen said in the interview that it took two years to plan the operation. In total 20 Mossad agents were involved on the ground - none of whom were Israeli citizens, the journalist Ilan Dayan said.

The spy chief watched the operation from a command centre in Tel Aviv. Agents broke into a warehouse and had to crack more than 30 safes, he said. As images of the trove appeared on screen, "there was incredible excitement for us all," he said, as quoted by The Times of Israel.

All operatives survived the raid and are well, he added, although some had to be extracted from Iran.

While it is not unusual for ex-Mossad heads to give interviews or make their views on certain issues known to the press, Yossi Cohen's comments are remarkable for the level of detail they divulge.

Indeed the Times of Israel online calls the interview "stunning [and] revelatory".

Like something from the pages of a thriller, Cohen describes how agents cracked safes before lifting tonnes of Iranian nuclear documents and getting them out the country while being chased.

Elsewhere, he comes closer than ever to admitting Israel sabotaged an underground Iranian nuclear site.

The interview, however, is calculated and it would have been cleared by Israel's military censors. Its timing is interesting too, coming as talks to revive the Iranian nuclear deal are about to resume amid hints of progress.

It also serves as a reminder to Israel's foes that the Mossad is willing to act deep behind what it considers to be enemy lines.

Israel has spoken openly about taking those tens of thousands of documents. But Mr Cohen also hinted at Mossad involvement in other operations long rumoured to have been the work of Israeli agents.

Early in the interview Mr Cohen spoke about the Iranian nuclear facility at Natanz.

Iran said that sabotage caused a fire at the uranium enrichment site in July 2020. A day after revealing new equipment in April this year, officials again said it had been sabotaged and had suffered major damage. Iran accused Israel of "nuclear terrorism" over the incident.

Natanz is an uranium enrichment facility about 250km south of the Iranian capital Tehran
Mr Cohen told Ms Dayan that he knew the site well, and that he could take her to the cellar "where the spinning centrifuges are located". He then added: "Those that used to spin. Nowadays, the cellar doesn't look like it used to."

And he also spoke about Mohsen Fakhrizadeh. Iran's top nuclear scientist was assassinated on a road outside Tehran last November - an attack Iran publicly blamed on Israel.

Why was a top Iranian scientist assassinated?
The ex-Mossad chief did not confirm or deny involvement in the death. But he said the scientist was a target "for many years", adding that his scientific knowledge concerned the agency.

"If the man constitutes a capability that endangers the citizens of Israel, he must stop existing," he was quoted as saying, but added that someone could be spared "if he is prepared to change profession and not harm us any longer".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57440430

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/meeting-with-us-israel-expresses-serious-reservations-iran-nuclear-deal-2021-06-27/

Israel has serious reservations about the Iran nuclear deal being put together in Vienna, new foreign minister Yair Lapid told his American counterpart, as he pledged to fix "the mistakes made" in U.S.-Israeli relations in recent years.

In their first face-to-face meeting since Israel's new government was sworn in two weeks ago, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Lapid had a very positive and warm discussion, according to U.S. officials.

The main topics were the nuclear deal and Israel's normalisation accords with Gulf Arab states, as well as humanitarian aid to Gaza and the status of East Jerusalem, a topic that helped fuel the latest wave of violence between the Israelis and Palestinians in May.

"Israel has some serious reservations about the Iran nuclear deal that is being put together in Vienna. We believe the way to discuss those disagreements is through direct and professional conversations, not in press conferences," Lapid said in brief remarks ahead of the meeting in Rome.

Iran and the United States have been holding indirect talks on reviving the 2015 nuclear deal between Tehran and major powers that imposed restrictions on Tehran's nuclear activities in exchange for lifting international sanctions.

The United States, under former President Donald Trump, abandoned the deal and reimposed harsh U.S. sanctions, prompting Iran to respond by violating many of its restrictions.

Blinken told Lapid that Washington would remain in close contact with Israel over the Iran negotiations, U.S. officials said.

Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, a nationalist atop a cross-partisan coalition, has hewed to the opposition of his conservative predecessor, Benjamin Netanyahu, to the 2015 Iranian nuclear deal, whose caps on projects with bomb-making potential Israel deemed too lax.

Netanyahu's particularly close ties with Trump followed an acrimonious relationship with his predecessor Barack Obama, which some critics said had alienated Democrats and compromised U.S. bipartisan support for Israel.

Biden, since taking office on Jan. 20, has repeatedly expressed Washington's support for Israel but has been more measured in his approach than Trump.

Lapid acknowledged the need for repair. "In the past few years, mistakes were made. Israel's bipartisan standing was hurt. We will fix those mistakes together."

Blinken also reiterated to Lapid Washington's concerns over Israeli attempts to evict several Palestinian families in East Jerusalem, and the status of the city's al-Aqsa Mosque, Islam's third holiest site, during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, U.S. officials said.

Blinken also conveyed to Lapid the necessity of getting humanitarian assistance into Gaza, where 250 Palestinians were killed and scores of buildings were destroyed last month by Israeli air strikes.

Biden has worked to repair ties with the Palestinians and abandon what they said was the one-sided U.S. policy towards the conflict. His administration has pledged to resume hundreds of millions of dollars in economic and humanitarian assistance and work toward reopening the Palestinians' diplomatic mission in Washington.

Israel's normalisation agreements with various Arab countries were also discussed. In his opening remarks, Blinken said he hoped more participants would join.

The UAE and Bahrain established ties with Israel last year in U.S.-brokered deals called the Abraham Accords, becoming the first Arab states in more than a quarter of a century to break what had been a long-standing taboo in the region.

Lapid, who also met in Rome with Bahrain's foreign minister, Abdullatif Al-Zayani, is due to visit the UAE on Tuesday and Wednesday. Lapid described the accord as historic and said, "I hope it will be the first of many."

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/11/cyber-attack-hits-irans-transport-ministry-and-railways

Websites of Iran’s transport and urbanisation ministry went out of service on Saturday after a “cyber-disruption” in computer systems, the official IRNA news agency reported.

On Friday, Iran’s railways also appeared to come under cyber-attack, with messages about alleged train delays or cancellations posted on display boards at stations across the country. Electronic tracking of trains across Iran reportedly failed.

The Fars news agency reported “unprecedented chaos” at stations with hundreds of trains delayed or cancelled. In the now-deleted report, it said the incident followed “a widespread disruption in … computer systems that is probably due to a cyber-attack.”

Sadegh Sekri, a spokesman for Islamic Republic of Iran Railways, told ISNA news agency on Saturday that “there has been no disruption or cyber-attack for passenger, cargo or intercity trains”. But the Fars report had included a picture of a station’s departures and arrivals board showing rows of cancelled trips with a message reading “long delays due to cyber-attacks”.

Iran has been the source as well as the target of attempted cyber-attacks in recent years – some of them apparently state-sponsored attacks hampering its nuclear fuel production efforts. On Saturday the minister of telecommunications, Mohammad Javad Azari Jahromi, warned about possible cyber-attacks though ransomware.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/30/two-reportedly-killed-in-attack-on-israeli-linked-oil-tanker-off-oman

A suspected drone attack on a freighter linked to an Israeli tycoon has killed two crew members, including a British national, off the coast of Oman in the Arabian Sea.

The attack hit the Liberian flagged Mercer Street late on Thursday. Though Japanese-owned, it was managed by an Israeli-owned company, Zodiac Maritime, part of billionaire Eyal Ofer’s Zodiac Group, which acknowledged the deaths and initially described the incident as piracy. The other victim was a Romanian national, the firm said.

The piracy claim was later denied by regional officials, who said the strike appeared to fit a pattern of previous attacks on maritime traffic linked to Iran and Israel carried out in a shadow war between the two foes.

The high seas showdown has seen an estimated 150 or more strikes over the past three years on Gulf waters, the Red Sea and the eastern Mediterranean coast.

Drones had been increasingly used by both sides throughout this year. Earlier, mines placed on ship hulls and occasionally small rockets are believed to have been deployed.

While disruption to shipping has been common, deaths have been rare. A drone strike believed to have been carried out on an Iranian oil tanker off the Syrian coast in the spring killed three people when a missile burst through the vessel’s bridge. In June, the biggest ship in the Iranian navy sank near Oman after its engine room mysteriously caught fire.

Mayday calls were detected in nearby Oman and in Saudi Arabia on Thursday night. The US navy is believed to have escorted the Mercer Street to the Omani island of Masirah.

The British military’s United Kingdom Maritime Trade Operations said an investigation was under way into the attack and that coalition forces were taking part.

A US official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Associated Press that the attack appeared to have been carried out by a “one-way” drone and other drones took part. The official said it was not immediately known who launched the attack.

A UK government spokesperson said: “Our thoughts are with the loved ones of a British national who has died following an incident on a tanker off the coast of Oman.

“Vessels must be allowed to navigate freely in accordance with international law. We are working with our international partners to urgently establish the facts.”

The Ministry of Defence said: “We are aware of reports of an attack on a merchant vessel off the coast of Oman. UK military headquarters in the region are currently conducting investigations.”

British maritime security firm Ambrey said the attack had killed one of its team members, along with a member of the tanker’s crew.

“It is with deep regret that I can confirm that an Ambrey team member has tragically been killed in a security incident,” the company said on Friday.

“The incident occurred in the northern Indian Ocean onboard the product tanker M/T Mercer Street. We can confirm a member of the crew was also killed.

“We are currently working closely with our client and the relevant authorities, whilst offering all the support possible to the victim’s next of kin. Our thoughts are with the family and friends of those involved at this incredibly sad time.”

Iran and Houthi rebels in Yemen backed by Tehran have increasingly deployed drone swarm technology against regional foes.

In May 2019, half of Saudi Arabia’s oil production capacity was taken offline for several weeks when multiple drones targeted the country’s main production facility.

Washington and Riyadh believe the attack was launched from the the Iranian side of the border with Iraq, close to Gulf waters.

The incident came as talks between Tehran and Washington to reactivate the nuclear deal continued to stall. Hours before the strike, the US had declared its frustration with the slow pace of the Vienna-based negotiations, which would lift sanctions reimposed by Donald Trump after his predecessor Barack Obama lifted then during his second term as US president.

The Mercer Street was in the northern Indian Ocean, travelling from Dar es Salaam to Fujairah with no cargo onboard. It is the second vessel linked to the Israeli tycoon to have been targeted this month. The first, a container ship the CSAV Tyndall suffered damage from an unexplained explosion in the Indian Ocean.

“With profound sadness, we understand the incident onboard the M/T Mercer Street on 29 July, 2021 has resulted in the deaths of two crew members onboard: a Romanian national and a UK national,” Zodiac Maritime wrote on Twitter. “We are not aware of harm to any other personnel.”

The deaths are likely to spark a more significant response in coming days than dozens of prior strikes that have caused only material damage.

The shadow conflict between Iran and Israel has been fought on regional waterways and from the skies above Syria and Iraq, where Israeli jets have routinely bombed targets that Israel believes are linked to Iran.

Whether on land, or water, neither side typically claims responsibility for the strikes it launches, preferring a series of low-key *** for tat responses and an absence of rhetoric that could lead to any escalation.

 

[PakLFC]

World War 3 will start in the event of Iran-Israel war. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst here. Things around the world are getting very nasty everywhere, it's scary.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-military-says-it-is-assisting-tanker-that-was-attacked-off-oman-2021-07-31/

The U.S. Navy is assisting an Israeli-managed petroleum products tanker that was fatally attacked on Thursday off the coast of Oman, the U.S. military said on Saturday, adding the ship was most likely hit by a drone strike.

The Mercer Street, a Liberian-flagged, Japanese-owned vessel, is currently being escorted by the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan, the U.S. Central Command said in a statement.

"U.S. Navy explosives experts are aboard to ensure there is no additional danger to the crew, and are prepared to support an investigation into the attack," said the Central Command, which oversees American military operations in the Middle East and Central Asia.

"Initial indications clearly point to a UAV-style (drone) attack," it added.

Israel's foreign minister blamed Iran on Friday for the attack, which killed two crewmen, a British and a Romanian.

U.S. and European sources familiar with intelligence reporting said on Friday Iran was their leading suspect for the incident, which a U.S. defense official said appeared to have been carried out by a drone, but stressed their governments were seeking conclusive evidence. read more

Al Alam TV, the Iranian government's Arabic-language television network, cited unnamed sources as saying the attack on the ship came in response to a suspected, unspecified Israeli attack on Dabaa airport in Syria.

There was no immediate official reaction from Iran to the accusation that it may have been responsible.

The vessel is managed by Israeli-owned Zodiac Maritime. The company said on Friday the vessel was sailing under the control of its crew and own power to a safe location with a U.S. naval escort.

Iran and Israel have traded accusations of attacking each other's vessels in recent months.

Tensions have risen in the Gulf region since the United States reimposed sanctions on Iran in 2018 after then-President Donald Trump withdrew Washington from Tehran's 2015 nuclear deal with major powers.

The United Kingdom Maritime Trade Operations (UKMTO), which provides maritime security information, said vessel was about 152 nautical miles (280 km) northeast of the Omani port of Duqm when it was attacked.

According to Refinitiv ship tracking, the medium-size tanker was headed for Fujairah in the United Arab Emirates, from Dar es Salaam in Tanzania.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-denies-involvement-attack-israeli-managed-tanker-off-oman-2021-08-01/

Britain said on Sunday it believed Iran carried out an attack on an Israeli-managed petroleum product tanker off the coast of Oman on Thursday that killed a Briton and a Romanian, and said it was working with partners on a "concerted response".

Iran earlier on Sunday denied it was involved in the incident, after it was blamed by Israel.

UK assessments had concluded that it was highly likely that Iran had used one or more drones to carry out the "unlawful and callous" attack, British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said.

"We believe this attack was deliberate, targeted, and a clear violation of international law by Iran," he said on Sunday. "The UK is working with our international partners on a concerted response to this unacceptable attack."

Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett had accused Tehran of "trying to shirk responsibility" for the attack, and called its denial "cowardly".

Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Saeed Khatibzadeh told a weekly news conference on Sunday that the "Zionist regime (Israel) has created insecurity, terror and violence...These accusations about Iran's involvement are condemned by Tehran".

"Such accusations are meant by Israel to divert attention from facts and are baseless," Khatibzadeh said.

The Briton and Romanian were killed in the incident involving the Mercer Street, a Liberian-flagged, Japanese-owned ship managed by Israeli-owned Zodiac Maritime.

The U.S. Navy, which was escorting the tanker with its aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan, said on Saturday that early indications "clearly pointed" to a drone attack.

Speaking during a weekly meeting of his cabinet on Sunday, Bennett said: "I declare unequivocally: Iran is the one that carried out the attack on the ship," adding that intelligence supports his claim.

"We, in any case, have our own way to relay the message to Iran," Bennett said. Israel's foreign minister said earlier the incident deserved a harsh response.

There were varying explanations for what happened to the tanker. Zodiac Maritime described the incident as "suspected piracy" and a source at the Oman Maritime Security Center said it was an accident that occurred outside Omani territorial waters.

U.S. and European sources familiar with intelligence reporting said Iran was their leading suspect for the incident.

Iran and Israel have traded accusations of carrying out attacks on each other's vessels in recent months.

Tensions have risen in the Gulf region since the United States reimposed sanctions on Iran in 2018 after then-President Donald Trump withdrew Washington from Tehran's 2015 nuclear deal with major powers.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iranian-official-warns-strong-response-if-security-threatened-agency-2021-08-02/

Iran will respond promptly to any threat against its security, the foreign ministry said on Monday, after the United States, Israel and Britain blamed Tehran for an attack on an Israeli-managed tanker off the coast of Oman.

Tehran has denied any involvement in the attack on Thursday in which two crew members - a Briton and a Romanian - were killed. The United States and Britain said on Sunday they would work with their allies to respond to the attack on the Mercer Street, a Liberian-flagged, Japanese-owned petroleum product tanker managed by Israeli-owned Zodiac Maritime.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson described the incident as "clearly an unacceptable and outrageous attack on commercial shipping".

"Iran should face up to the consequences of what they've done," Johnson told reporters on Monday.

Britain summoned the Iranian ambassador on Monday. Later, Iran summoned the British Charge d' Affaires and Romania's top envoy in Tehran over their countries' "accusations against the Islamic Republic", Iran's semi-official Fars news agency reported.

"Iran has no hesitation in protecting its security and national interests and will respond promptly and strongly to any possible adventure," Iranian state television quoted foreign ministry spokesman Saeed Khatibzadeh as saying.

The U.S. Navy, which was escorting the tanker with the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier, said on Saturday early indications "clearly pointed" to a drone attack. Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett had accused Tehran of "trying to shirk responsibility" for the attack, and called its denial "cowardly". Israel's foreign minister said on Sunday the incident deserved a harsh response.

Israel Defence Minister Benny Gantz said the attack was an intensification of what he called Iran's escalation and accused Tehran of intending to hurt and kill civilians.

"Israel has a variety of tools and options to defend its citizens, and we will settle the score with anyone who tries to harm us at the time and place and in the way that suits us and our security," Gantz told the Israeli parliament.

An unidentified Iranian official told Iran's Nournews news agency earlier that Tehran considered "the threats of Western officials and the Zionist regime (Israel) to be more of a propaganda gesture".

"And Washington and London will be directly responsible for the consequences," the official told Nournews, which is close to Iran's Supreme National Security Council.

Iran and Israel have exchanged accusations of carrying out attacks on each other's vessels in recent months.

Tensions have increased between Iran and Israel since 2018, when then U.S. President Donald Trump ditched Tehran's 2015 nuclear deal with six world powers and reimposed sanctions that have crippled Iran's economy.

Israel has voiced concerns about efforts by Iran and U.S. President Joe Biden's administration to revive the nuclear pact, under which Iran curbed its sensitive nuclear work in exchange for lifting sanctions.

"In any agreement, should there be one, with Iran, it must also be based on the removal of its threat on the region," said Gantz.

 

[KingKhanWC]

UK has no business to get involved, its not the 1800's, its no great military power now.

Iran has a right to self defence , if the Zionist entity and US along with other lapdogs assasinate their generals or scientists.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/03/extreme-caution-urged-in-gulf-of-oman-after-non-piracy-incident

Iranian-backed forces are suspected of being behind the seizure of a tanker off the coast of the United Arab Emirates, after Britain’s maritime trade agency reported a “potential hijack” in the area on Tuesday by eight to nine armed individuals.

Maritime security sources identified the vessel as the Panama-flagged asphalt tanker that was reportedly intercepted in an area in the Arabian Sea leading to the strait of Hormuz, through which about a fifth of the world’s seaborne oil exports flow.

Maritime security analysts at Dryad Global and Aurora Intelligence later named the endangered ship as the Asphalt Princess travelling to Sohar, a port on Oman’s northern coast.

In a statement, the UK Foreign Office said it was “urgently investigating an incident on a vessel off the UAE coast”.

The latest incident followed an attack last week on an Israeli-managed tanker off the Omani coast that killed two crew members and was blamed on Iran by the United States, Israel and Britain. Iran denied responsibility.

Commenting on the latest incident, Iran’s foreign ministry said reports of security incidents involving several ships near the UAE coast on Tuesday were “suspicious” and warned against any effort to create a “false atmosphere” against Tehran.

“The reports on the occurrence of successive security incidents for ships in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman is completely suspicious,” a ministry website quoted spokesman Saeed Khatibzadeh as saying, adding: “Iran’s naval forces are ready for help and rescue in the region.”

First intimations of an incident emerged on Tuesday afternoon when a warning notice was issued by the British military’s United Kingdom Maritime Trade Operations (UKMTO), which notified ships that “an incident is currently under way” – later upgraded to a “potential hijacking”.

An Oman Royal Air Force Airbus C-295MPA, a maritime patrol aircraft, was flying over the area, according to data from Flightradar24.com.

The initial warning emerged amid contradictory claims in different local media that up to four ships had reported issues. Four oil tankers announced around the same time via their automatic identification system trackers that they were “not under command”, according to MarineTraffic.com.

It was not clear, however, of the significance of those alerts or even if they were related, with one of the ships later moving again.

The US military’s Middle East-based Fifth Fleet and the British defence ministry did not immediately return calls for comment. The Emirati government did not immediately acknowledge the incident.

The event comes just days after a drone struck an oil tanker linked to an Israeli billionaire off the coast of Oman, killing two crew members.

On Monday, Iran said it would respond to any threat against its security after the United States, Israel and Britain blamed Tehran for an attack on an Israeli-managed tanker off the coast of Oman. The attack marked the first known assault to have killed civilians in the years-long shadow war targeting commercial vessels in the region.

Iran denied any role in the incident, though Tehran and its allied militias have used similar “suicide” drones in attacks previously. Israel, the US and UK vowed a “collective response” to the attack, without elaborating.

The UKMTO warning notice, based on a third-party source, advised vessels to exercise extreme caution in the area, about 61 nautical miles east of Fujairah.

The UKMTO was set up by the Royal Navy in 2001 initially to coordinate and exchange information with merchant traffic in the Arabian Sea to help counter Somali piracy.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/03/extreme-caution-urged-in-gulf-of-oman-after-non-piracy-incident

Oman has confirmed that a tanker boarded off the coast of the United Arab Emirates by a group of armed men was the target of a “hijacking incident”.

The incident, involving eight or nine armed men, ended after the group left the ship on Wednesday morning, according to a statement from the British navy.

The identity of the hijackers remained unclear despite claims on Tuesday by some maritime security sources which pointed to Iranian backing, a claim denied by Iran.

The British military’s United Kingdom maritime trade operations (UKMTO) reported that the incident, which it had described as a “potential hijack” the night before, was now “complete”.

“The vessel is safe,” the group said, without identifying the ship.

The shipping authority Lloyd’s List and the maritime intelligence firm Dryad Global both named the hijacked vessel as the Panama-flagged asphalt tanker Asphalt Princess. The vessel’s owner, listed as the Emirati free-zone-based Glory International, could not immediately be reached for comment.

Satellite-tracking data for the Asphalt Princess had showed it gradually heading toward Iranian waters off the port of Jask early on Wednesday, according to MarineTraffic.com.

Later, however, it stopped and changed course toward Oman, just before the British naval group announced the intruders had left.

The event unfolded amid heightened tensions between Iran and the west over Tehran’s nuclear deal with world powers and as commercial shipping in the region has found itself caught in the crosshairs.

Most recently, the US, UK and Israel have blamed Iran for a drone attack on an oil tanker off the coast of Oman that killed two people. Iran has denied involvement. A number of maritime security sources had suggested that Iranian-backed forces were suspected in an incident that remains clouded in uncertainty.

In a statement on Tuesday, the UK Foreign Office said it was “urgently investigating an incident on a vessel off the UAE coast”. A spokesperson for the US state department said it was “too early to offer a judgment” on the incident.

Iran’s Revolutionary Guards denied that the country’s forces or allies were involved, saying the incident was a pretext for “hostile action” against Tehran, Iranian state television said on its website.

“According to information from security sources, Iran’s armed forces and all branches of the Islamic resistance in the Middle East have nothing to do with the incident in the Gulf of Oman,” the Guards said in a statement carried by the website.

The statement said the incident was an attempt by western countries and Israel “to prepare the public opinion of the international community for hostile action against the honourable nation of Iran”.

Iran’s foreign ministry said reports of security incidents involving several ships near the UAE coast on Tuesday were “suspicious” and warned against any effort to create a “false atmosphere” against Tehran.

“The reports on the occurrence of successive security incidents for ships in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman is completely suspicious,” a ministry website quoted the spokesperson Saeed Khatibzadeh as saying, adding: “Iran’s naval forces are ready for help and rescue in the region.”

First intimations of an incident emerged on Tuesday afternoon when a warning notice was issued by the UKMTO, which notified ships that “an incident is currently under way” – later upgraded to a “potential hijacking”.

An Oman Royal Air Force Airbus C-295MPA maritime patrol aircraft was flying over the area, according to data from Flightradar24.com.

The initial warning emerged amid contradictory claims in different local media that up to four ships had reported issues. Four oil tankers announced around the same time via their automatic identification system trackers that they were “not under command”, according to MarineTraffic.com.

It was not clear, however, of the significance of those alerts or even if they were related, with one of the ships later moving again.

The US military’s Middle East-based Fifth Fleet and the British defence ministry did not immediately return calls for comment. The Emirati government did not immediately acknowledge the incident.

The event comes just days after a drone struck an oil tanker linked to an Israeli billionaire off the coast of Oman, killing two crew members. On Monday, Iran said it would respond to any threat against its security after the US, Israel and Britain blamed Tehran for the attack, which marked the first known assault to have killed civilians in the years-long shadow war targeting commercial vessels in the region.

Iran denied any role in the incident, though Tehran and its allied militias have used similar “suicide” drones in attacks previously. Israel, the US and UK vowed a “collective response” to the attack, without elaborating.

The UKMTO warning notice, based on a third-party source, advised vessels to exercise extreme caution in the area, about 61 nautical miles east of Fujairah.

The UKMTO was set up by the Royal Navy in 2001 initially to coordinate and exchange information with merchant traffic in the Arabian Sea to help counter Somali piracy.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-security-council-discuss-deadly-tanker-attack-friday-2021-08-05/

Britain will raise a deadly tanker attack off the coast of Oman during a closed-door United Nations Security Council meeting on Friday, diplomats said, but the 15-member body is not expected to take any action.

Britain told the Security Council on Tuesday it was "highly likely" that Iran used one or more drones to carry out the tanker attack last week, which killed two crew members - a Briton and a Romanian.

"There's a lot of conflicting information. A 'highly likely' analysis, which we totally reject. We need to establish facts ... we don't need to rush to any conclusions or actions without having proof of what has happened," deputy Russian U.N. Ambassador Dmitry Polyanskiy told reporters on Wednesday.

Tehran has denied any involvement in Thursday's attack on the Mercer Street - a Liberian-flagged, Japanese-owned petroleum product tanker managed by Israeli-owned Zodiac Maritime. The United States and Britain said on Sunday they would work with their allies to respond to the attack.

"We will do the necessary to ensure that there is accountability on this and that Iran is identified and dealt with at the Security Council," U.S. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield told MSNBC on Thursday.