Israeli scientists create first 3D-printed heart with blood vessels

[Mamoon]

Israeli scientists say they have created the world’s first 3D-printed heart using human tissue.

Professor Tal Dvir, who led the project, says the miniature organ was made with a patient's own cells, describing it as a major medical breakthrough and "the first time anyone anywhere has successfully engineered and printed an entire heart replete with cells, blood vessels, ventricles and chambers".

His team at Israel's Tel Aviv University plans to transplant the hearts into animals in a move they hope will advance possibilities for human transplants.

He claims that larger human hearts could be produced using the same technology.

“Maybe, in ten years, there will be organ printers in the finest hospitals around the world, and these procedures will be conducted routinely,” Dvir said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-m...-scientists-print-3d-heart-using-human-tissue



Without going into technical jargon, this is - in simple words - one of the biggest breakthrough in medicine history.

Then we wonder why Jews (roughly 20 million population) are in a stronger position than Muslims (nearly 2 billion people), why Jewish and Zionist propaganda is stronger than Muslim propaganda and why Islamophobia is more rampant than anti-Semitism.

190+ Nobel laureates in science and literature compared to only 5 for Muslims tells a story. One of them Dr. Abdus Salam of course whose legacy we have tried to wipe out because he was an Ahmadi.

While the important discourses in the Muslim world are life after death, why evolution is a myth (we get a glimpse of it on PP), whether keeping a beard is obligatory or not and whether you have to perform ablution if you spill blood, the Jews continue to reach new heights in the world of science and medicine with less people than that of Karachi and Lahore combined.

According to the esteemed scholars of Islam, Professor Tal Dvir, the man behind this invention that will potentially change the lives of millions of people in future generations, will go to Hell because he didn't recite "kalimah".

Instead of crying about why the world is out to get us, perhaps it is time for us Muslims to look inwards and try to understand why we are lagging so much in terms of contributions to the world of science and medicine.

 

[troodon]

Woohoooo!! Kudos to the Scientists. This can save millions of lives around the world.

Hopefully other vital organs are also produced using this technology.

 

[Musakhel]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-m...-scientists-print-3d-heart-using-human-tissue

View attachment 90604

Without going into technical jargon, this is - in simple words - one of the biggest breakthrough in medicine history.

Then we wonder why Jews (roughly 20 million population) are in a stronger position than Muslims (nearly 2 billion people), why Jewish and Zionist propaganda is stronger than Muslim propaganda and why Islamophobia is more rampant than anti-Semitism.

190+ Nobel laureates in science and literature compared to only 5 for Muslims tells a story. One of them Dr. Abdus Salam of course whose legacy we have tried to wipe out because he was an Ahmadi.

While the important discourses in the Muslim world are life after death, why evolution is a myth (we get a glimpse of it on PP), whether keeping a beard is obligatory or not and whether you have to perform ablution if you spill blood, the Jews continue to reach new heights in the world of science and medicine with less people than that of Karachi and Lahore combined.

According to the esteemed scholars of Islam, Professor Tal Dvir, the man behind this invention that will potentially change the lives of millions of people in future generations, will go to Hell because he didn't recite "kalimah".

Instead of crying about why the world is out to get us, perhaps it is time for us Muslims to look inwards and try to understand why we are lagging so much in terms of contributions to the world of science and medicine.

Not sure why you put that 2nd last paragraph in there, but what has his invention got to do with him going or not going to paradise when we know from the narration of Nabi( SAW) that a persons deeds do not earn them paradise rather it is Allah mercy through which one can earn paradise, this jew since you like to emphasise his faith done his deeds for humanity or for whatever reason and they will reward him, but If he done his deeds for Allah than he may ask for his reward from Allah, since he does not believe In Allah than Why does Allah have to reward him?

 

[Mamoon]

Not sure why you put that 2nd last paragraph in there, but what has his invention got to do with him going or not going to paradise when we know from the narration of Nabi( SAW) that a persons deeds do not earn them paradise rather it is Allah mercy through which one can earn paradise, this jew since you like to emphasise his faith done his deeds for humanity or for whatever reason and they will reward him, but If he done his deeds for Allah than he may ask for his reward from Allah, since he does not believe In Allah than Why does Allah have to reward him?

So Allah SWT has no reward in store for people who have done wondrous deeds for humanity, simply because he didn't believe in His religion?

So a Muslim, who although has recited the kalimah and believes in Islam, has made no positive contribution to the world and spends his time drinking and partying will eventually be eligible to go to Heaven after paying for his sins, but a scientist who has spend years developing an invention that will serve millions of humans and of course Muslims in the future, will always stay in Hell because he didn't recite the kalimah.

What sort of criteria is this?

 

[Lonewarrior]

So Allah SWT has no reward in store for people who have done wondrous deeds for humanity, simply because he didn't believe in His religion?

So a Muslim, who although has recited the kalimah and believes in Islam, has made no positive contribution to the world and spends his time drinking and partying will eventually be eligible to go to Heaven after paying for his sins, but a scientist who has spend years developing an invention that will serve millions of humans and of course Muslims in the future, will always stay in Hell because he didn't recite the kalimah.

What sort of criteria is this?

have you ever asked about this criteria from your elders ?

 

[Technics 1210]

This thread/OP is yet another veiled attack on Muslims.

Perhaps our resident art collector has forgotten the contribution Islam has made to medicine over the last 1400 years.

The OP's commentary is unnecessary.

Here are the words from the article, which make more sense.

Israeli scientists say they have created the world’s first 3D-printed heart using human tissue.

Professor Tal Dvir, who led the project, says the miniature organ was made with a patient's own cells, describing it as a "major medical breakthrough".

His team at Israel's Tel Aviv University plans to transplant the hearts into animals in a move they hope will advance possibilities for human transplants.

He claims that larger human hearts could be produced using the same technology.

 

[Musakhel]

So Allah SWT has no reward in store for people who have done wondrous deeds for humanity, simply because he didn't believe in His religion?

So a Muslim, who although has recited the kalimah and believes in Islam, has made no positive contribution to the world and spends his time drinking and partying will eventually be eligible to go to Heaven after paying for his sins, but a scientist who has spend years developing an invention that will serve millions of humans and of course Muslims in the future, will always stay in Hell because he didn't recite the kalimah.

What sort of criteria is this?

Allah is the owner of paradise and he has told us through the Quran and prophet Muhamamd that disbelievers will not enter paradise , since It( paradise) is the property of Allah it is His right to allow or deny anyone admission into paradise.



even If Allah sent all believers to hell and disbelivers to Paradise It is just, since All creation is his property to begin with, He can do with them as he wills.

 

[sshakir411]

Is this thread to share the great break through in science or rant about Muslims vs Jews?

Anyone who needs an explanation on why Jewish people are more successful than Muslims should just go back to school

 

[Stewie]

For this one, I agree with Mamoon although most of the time I just find him bashing Pakistan for no good reason. But here he does have a valid point. For all the oil money and influence in the world, most Muslim nation’s have failed to make significant contributions to the world in science and tech. I can understand why Pakistan hasn’t done much because well we are not a thriving country.

Israel itself given its small size, has contributed significantly in several fields and their achievement is to be commended. Muslims need to take a hard look at themselves in this regard.

 

[Technics 1210]

For this one, I agree with Mamoon although most of the time I just find him bashing Pakistan for no good reason. But here he does have a valid point. For all the oil money and influence in the world, most Muslim nation’s have failed to make significant contributions to the world in science and tech. I can understand why Pakistan hasn’t done much because well we are not a thriving country.

Israel itself given its small size, has contributed significantly in several fields and their achievement is to be commended. Muslims need to take a hard look at themselves in this regard.

There have been many American Muslims for example that have contributed to medicine and science in this millennium. They are counted as Americans of course.

Israel may be a small size but it is intrinsically linked with the USA when it comes to knowledge, funding, and secrecy.

For the record, money doesn't drive innovation, it is necessity.

 

[Mamoon]

This thread/OP is yet another veiled attack on Muslims.

Perhaps our resident art collector has forgotten the contribution Islam has made to medicine over the last 1400 years.

The OP's commentary is unnecessary.

Here are the words from the article, which make more sense.

Islamic Golden Age ended in the 14th century. The contribution of Modern Muslims has been zilch. The way things are going, we will be gloating over our early Middle Ages achievements a thousand years from now.

Muslims and Islamic countries have collectively failed to make contributions to the modern world, and it has a lot to do with our emphasis on afterlife. When you focus too much on what will happen when you die, you lose the motivation for high achievement in the life that you are living.

That is primarily the reason why rich Muslim countries spend so little on R&D and are relying on Western research whose products they then use to bash the West.

In a hundred years or so, mullahs will be spreading hate against jews while carrying a heart that was made by them.

 

[Mamoon]

Is this thread to share the great break through in science or rant about Muslims vs Jews?

Anyone who needs an explanation on why Jewish people are more successful than Muslims should just go back to school

I think it has the potential for a fantastic discourse, even if the reasons for their success and our failures are quite apparent. I believe that putting a lid on a discussion is never fruitful. You or I may be well-versed with the reasons, but there will always be someone who could learn something new from the debate.

 

[Mamoon]

have you ever asked about this criteria from your elders ?

I have, and most of the answers have been as disappointing as Musakhel's. When you are told that He does what He wills, there is no room for further discussion.

 

[Technics 1210]

Islamic Golden Age ended in the 14th century. The contribution of Modern Muslims has been zilch. The way things are going, we will be gloating over our early Middle Ages achievements a thousand years from now.

Muslims and Islamic countries have collectively failed to make contributions to the modern world, and it has a lot to do with our emphasis on afterlife. When you focus too much on what will happen when you die, you lose the motivation for high achievement in the life that you are living.

That is primarily the reason why rich Muslim countries spend so little on R&D and are relying on Western research whose products they then use to bash the West.

In a hundred years or so, mullahs will be spreading hate against jews while carrying a heart that was made by them.

You wouldn't have said the same had it been the British or Americans contributed to Medicine, but the fact it was Israel, you felt a dig at Muslims was appropriate.

You have no idea of history, call yourself an art lover, well I got news for you, every civilization has its peak, and has a trough, this is a fact. Yes we should be proud of Islamic contribution over centuries, after all, Israel would not have existed had the Jews not gloated about the 2000 year god given - we are the chosen ones - right to a homeland.

The reason why rich Muslim nations spend so little on R&D is very simple, money doesn't drive innovation, it only buys innovation. Heck you are a doctor, why don't you contribute to medicine/science? Too busy on PP? Where is your drive?

Stick to paintings.

 

[Stewie]

There have been many American Muslims for example that have contributed to medicine and science in this millennium. They are counted as Americans of course.

Israel may be a small size but it is intrinsically linked with the USA when it comes to knowledge, funding, and secrecy.

For the record, money doesn't drive innovation, it is necessity.

The point isn’t that it’s Muslims. The point is Muslim nations and countries have failed to keep up with the world. Countries like Pakistan, and some others have problems with money but what about Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia, UAE, Iraq and Libya before the war, etc?

Most are oil producing rich nations and seems the rulers and people are just happy selling their oil to provide for their ayyashi. The like the flash of big tall buildings and whatnot but in the field of education and R&D in general what is going on over there? How many top universities in the world are in Muslim countries or how many top universities have Muslim countries established over the last 50 so years?

Very few, I am afraid!

 

[troodon]

The only issue religious folks should have is, humans acting like God(s).

An artificial heart and perhaps in future, artificial vital organs means, humans are doing what only God is supposed to do. So God is not that great after all.

 

[Mamoon]

You wouldn't have said the same had it been the British or Americans contributed to Medicine, but the fact it was Israel, you felt a dig at Muslims was appropriate.

You have no idea of history, call yourself an art lover, well I got news for you, every civilization has its peak, and has a trough, this is a fact. Yes we should be proud of Islamic contribution over centuries, after all, Israel would not have existed had the Jews not gloated about the 2000 year god given - we are the chosen ones - right to a homeland.

The reason why rich Muslim nations spend so little on R&D is very simple, money doesn't drive innovation, it only buys innovation. Heck you are a doctor, why don't you contribute to medicine/science? Too busy on PP? Where is your drive?

Stick to paintings.

I have tremendous respect for Jews because of the academic achievements. 190+ Nobel Laureates in science and literature for a tiny population is nothing but inspirational. The reason why I drew comparisons with Muslims is that in spite of the striking similarities between Judaism and Islam, Jews and Muslims couldn't be further apart in terms of achievements.

You are right in pointing out that every civilisation has a peak and a trough, but our peak lasted for roughly 6 centuries and they way things are going, our trough will last for millions of years if not forever. Muslims will remain extremely high underachievers unless and until they change their collective mindset.

It is indeed true that money doesn't drive innovation, it buys. However, it also supports innovation because research is not free. Muslims on the whole have become extremely lazy and do not use their resources for R&D because they know that the West are there to do the hard work for them which they can easily buy with their money.

Why would the oil-rich Arab countries spend money and effort on making an Al-Ferrari, when they can simply buy a Ferrari?

As far as I am concerned, I would like to think that I still have 30-40 years to live, and if I don't make any contribution - big or small - towards some research in my field, I will look back with regret. However, I think that those who acknowledge the shortcomings of modern Muslims and their failure to contribute to science are considerably better than the ignorant people who are in denial and still gloat over the achievements of the Islamic Golden Age.

Also, I think your attempt to deride me on my passion for art is futile. I take immense pride in my artistic abilities and taste for the finer things in life, so your attempts to mock me by calling me an art lover only serve to boost my ego. Please carry on, it fills me with pride.

 

[Technics 1210]

The point isn’t that it’s Muslims. The point is Muslim nations and countries have failed to keep up with the world. Countries like Pakistan, and some others have problems with money but what about Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia, UAE, Iraq and Libya before the war, etc?

Most are oil producing rich nations and seems the rulers and people are just happy selling their oil to provide for their ayyashi. The like the flash of big tall buildings and whatnot but in the field of education and R&D in general what is going on over there? How many top universities in the world are in Muslim countries or how many top universities have Muslim countries established over the last 50 so years?

Very few, I am afraid!

There was a time when the best Universities in the world were in the UK, now the tide has shifted to the USA. Same way top universities were in Islamic worlds at one point. It's a cycle in the end, and no nation can sustain a peak forever.

Money is not the driver of innovation. It never was. The best of the best innovations and contributions to science were from people who were mostly poor or struggling. This is the main reason why we are not seeing rampant contribution from the Islamic world, because like you say, money is rampant due to oil. This is not to say the likes of Pakistani scientists have not contributed, they have, it's just their contribution are not mainstream enough to the point Joe Blogg can benefit.

 

[Mamoon]

The point isn’t that it’s Muslims. The point is Muslim nations and countries have failed to keep up with the world. Countries like Pakistan, and some others have problems with money but what about Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia, UAE, Iraq and Libya before the war, etc?

Most are oil producing rich nations and seems the rulers and people are just happy selling their oil to provide for their ayyashi. The like the flash of big tall buildings and whatnot but in the field of education and R&D in general what is going on over there? How many top universities in the world are in Muslim countries or how many top universities have Muslim countries established over the last 50 so years?

Very few, I am afraid!

I think there are two main reasons for the collective failures of rich Muslim countries. Firstly, we are too afraid to tinker with God's design. A Muslim who attempts to make an artificial heart will immediately be charged with fatwas and declared an infidel. Science is in direct conflict with religion and we are too preoccupied with breaking religious laws.

Another reason is that since the Renaissance, the Western world has been carrying the world on their shoulders and driving it forward, and now the Chinese have joined the party as well. If it was up to Muslims, we would still be living in a medieval world. In future if the Western and Chinese civilisations decline like the Muslims, perhaps it will then be our turn to revive our Golden Age. Unfortunately that is extremely unlikely to happen on both accounts.

 

[Stewie]

I think there are two main reasons for the collective failures of rich Muslim countries. Firstly, we are too afraid to tinker with God's design. A Muslim who attempts to make an artificial heart will immediately be charged with fatwas and declared an infidel. Science is in direct conflict with religion and we are too preoccupied with breaking religious laws.

Another reason is that since the Renaissance, the Western world has been carrying the world on their shoulders and driving it forward, and now the Chinese have joined the party as well. If it was up to Muslims, we would still be living in a medieval world. In future if the Western and Chinese civilisations decline like the Muslims, perhaps it will then be our turn to revive our Golden Age. Unfortunately that is extremely unlikely to happen on both accounts.

I disagree. Strongly!

I believe there are Muslim nations who would not fail to contribute in the fields of RnD, science and Medicine if they were prospering. Because quite a few Muslims do well albeit i foreign countries. I believe the issue is either there is financial and political instability in Muslim countries and those that are indeed prosperous due to oil or whatever, their rulers mostly are busy living the high life and not trying to compete with the rest of the world in Education and science and innovation.

They mostly send their kids to foreign universities as well so if they are going to do something big, it will still be considered a foreign achievement.

 

[Technics 1210]

I have tremendous respect for Jews because of the academic achievements. 190+ Nobel Laureates in science and literature for a tiny population is nothing but inspirational. The reason why I drew comparisons with Muslims is that in spite of the striking similarities between Judaism and Islam, Jews and Muslims couldn't be further apart in terms of achievements.

You are right in pointing out that every civilisation has a peak and a trough, but our peak lasted for roughly 6 centuries and they way things are going, our trough will last for millions of years if not forever. Muslims will remain extremely high underachievers unless and until they change their collective mindset.

It is indeed true that money doesn't drive innovation, it buys. However, it also supports innovation because research is not free. Muslims on the whole have become extremely lazy and do not use their resources for R&D because they know that the West are there to do the hard work for them which they can easily buy with their money.

Why would the oil-rich Arab countries spend money and effort on making an Al-Ferrari, when they can simply buy a Ferrari?

As far as I am concerned, I would like to think that I still have 30-40 years to live, and if I don't make any contribution - big or small - towards some research in my field, I will look back with regret. However, I think that those who acknowledge the shortcomings of modern Muslims and their failure to contribute to science are considerably better than the ignorant people who are in denial and still gloat over the achievements of the Islamic Golden Age.

Also, I think your attempt to deride me on my passion for art is futile. I take immense pride in my artistic abilities and taste for the finer things in life, so your attempts to mock me by calling me an art lover only serve to boost my ego. Please carry on, it fills me with pride.

I admire the Jews too, but not for their academic contributions, but their contributions to economics and the global banking and capitalist system which outstrips the Nobel Laureate institution by centuries.

Had the Nobel Laureate existed for over 2000 years, then Muslims would have dominated the list. But hey, it is what it is, but Nobel Laureate isn’t the be all and end all of academics like you make it out to be.

Take Newton, he NEVER won a Nobel prize nor was he a Nobel laureate, does this mean his contributions, including, Principia Mathematica, were worthless? Even Einstein, he never won a Nobel prize for his Theory of special relativity – did this render E-MC2 pointless? Hawkins never won a Nobel Prize nor was he a Nobel laureate.

You seem to be fixated on an award, which started in 1895, as the yardstick of human contribution - how narrow-minded of you. Do you only watch and pay attention to movies that have won Oscars? Just wondering.

As for your own contribution, I only pointed out the fact that Doctors like you are in a position to make a difference, but judging by your post above, you bailed out. Why? Cos you are loaded with dosh?

 

[Mamoon]

I disagree. Strongly!

I believe there are Muslim nations who would not fail to contribute in the fields of RnD, science and Medicine if they were prospering. Because quite a few Muslims do well albeit i foreign countries. I believe the issue is either there is financial and political instability in Muslim countries and those that are indeed prosperous due to oil or whatever, their rulers mostly are busy living the high life and not trying to compete with the rest of the world in Education and science and innovation.

They mostly send their kids to foreign universities as well so if they are going to do something big, it will still be considered a foreign achievement.

I think this is an interesting point which begs another question. Why are most Muslim countries struggling to prosper? We can blame Western/Jewish conspiracies and Islamophobia all we want, but surely we have certain shortcomings that stands between us and excellence?

If Muslims were dominating the world today in various disciples like the West, we would take immense pride in how this is a reward for following the true faith.

It is certainly more of a collective failure than an individual one. Muslim countries simply don't have the environment in which innovation and creativity can thrive. Take the example of the popcorn seller in Pakistan who build a plane for himself. The poor fellow had to face the wrath of the police and had his plane confiscated, but if he was in some Western country, he would immediately get a platform where he can put his talents to use.

Unfortunately, the way he was treated, he must have lost every drop of passion and creativity that he had.

 

[Technics 1210]

Greek innovation including Philosophy, Art, Olympic games, Democracy, and of course, promoting, homosexuality.

Every man and his dog knows the Greeks were influenced by Egyptians - after all, Pythagoras studied the pyramids long before he was famous!

Someone didn't read up on the Rosetta Stone.

 

[Mamoon]

I admire the Jews too, but not for their academic contributions, but their contributions to economics and the global banking and capitalist system which outstrips the Nobel Laureate institution by centuries.

Had the Nobel Laureate existed for over 2000 years, then Muslims would have dominated the list. But hey, it is what it is, but Nobel Laureate isn’t the be all and end all of academics like you make it out to be.

Take Newton, he NEVER won a Nobel prize nor was he a Nobel laureate, does this mean his contributions, including, Principia Mathematica, were worthless? Even Einstein, he never won a Nobel prize for his Theory of special relativity – did this render E-MC2 pointless? Hawkins never won a Nobel Prize nor was he a Nobel laureate.

You seem to be fixated on an award, which started in 1895, as the yardstick of human contribution - how narrow-minded of you. Do you only watch and pay attention to movies that have won Oscars? Just wondering.

As for your own contribution, I only pointed out the fact that Doctors like you are in a position to make a difference, but judging by your post above, you bailed out. Why? Cos you are loaded with dosh?

Firstly, had the Nobel Laureate existed for over 2,000 years, we would surely have quite a few but he wouldn't have dominated it. There were civilisations before Islam that made greater strides, and we would still be comfortably lagging behind the Jews.

Secondly, yes Newton, Einstein and Hawkins never won the Nobel Prize, but do we have scientists in the modern Islamic world who come anywhere close to them?

I am fixated with the Nobel Prize because for over a century, it has been an prestigious recognition for achievements in science. Not every great movie has won Oscars, but who are the Muslims who have deserved to win a Nobel Prize in the last century but were not deemed good enough? I am quite surprised that you have not yet claimed the Nobel Prize as a conspiracy against the Muslims and a Zionist/Western propaganda.

Bail-out? Do you call the following a bail-out?

"As far as I am concerned, I would like to think that I still have 30-40 years to live, and if I don't make any contribution - big or small - towards some research in my field, I will look back with regret."

 

[Tubs]

Greek innovation including Philosophy, Art, Olympic games, Democracy, and of course, promoting, homosexuality.

Every man and his dog knows the Greeks were influenced by Egyptians - after all, Pythagoras studied the pyramids long before he was famous!

Someone didn't read up on the Rosetta Stone.

You really are so very disingenuous. So Aristotle (logic), Euclid (geometry), Pythagoras (famous theorem) mean nothing to you? I am no historian of mathematics but a quick Google search will show a multitude of Greek mathematicians. And they didn't just have mathematics, they were prolific in Physics too.

And the Muslim academics that you so idolise weren't influenced by anything? al-Khwarizmi was influenced by Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Chinese mathematicians. Try again.

 

[Technics 1210]

Firstly, had the Nobel Laureate existed for over 2,000 years, we would surely have quite a few but he wouldn't have dominated it. There were civilisations before Islam that made greater strides, and we would still be comfortably lagging behind the Jews.

Secondly, yes Newton, Einstein and Hawkins never won the Nobel Prize, but do we have scientists in the modern Islamic world who come anywhere close to them?

I am fixated with the Nobel Prize because for over a century, it has been an prestigious recognition for achievements in science. Not every great movie has won Oscars, but who are the Muslims who have deserved to win a Nobel Prize in the last century but were not deemed good enough? I am quite surprised that you have not yet claimed the Nobel Prize as a conspiracy against the Muslims and a Zionist/Western propaganda.

Bail-out? Do you call the following a bail-out?

"As far as I am concerned, I would like to think that I still have 30-40 years to live, and if I don't make any contribution - big or small - towards some research in my field, I will look back with regret."

This was not the point. You are fixated with the Nobel Laureate as a measurement of human academic achievement, I was merely pointing out the fact that the greatest scientists of human history were never Nobel Laureates or winners of the Nobel prize. So, the question of an *Islamic scientist* coming close is now a conciliation point from yourself.

To answer your point however, it was the Islamic Golden age that pulled Europe out of the dark ages, which lead to the Renaissance period of Europe, resulting in incredible art and architecture. I am sure you will agree. The point? I could list names, but it will not matter to you, because what you fail to realise is that Islamic scientists didn’t just contribute to science but contributed to modern lexicon, such was the influence.

The comment with respect to Oscars, well, it was a parallel to your love for Nobel laureates. It seems to me your scope of respect is confined within an award. Like I said, narrow minded. You prove my point by stating - *Not every great movie won an Oscar* - you tripped yourself again.

Speaking of Nobel Prize, did you know there is no Nobel Prize with respect to Mathematics? Go Google and educate yourself why. Hint – infidelity.

Honestly, I do not think you are a doctor. I know a few doctors and believe me they just do not have the time to spend with their family let alone post verse after verse on a forum. I think you are a painter shacked up in your parent’s home, trying to sell his paintings (inspired by suffering and deep emotions). Art is after all an expression of emotion, but you sir take the biscuit.

Here’s a fun fact, do you know why Hitler despised the Jews? It was because he too was a painter, but his paintings were rejected by Jewish art sellers. How many Muslim art sellers turned your paintings down?

 

[Mamoon]

This was not the point. You are fixated with the Nobel Laureate as a measurement of human academic achievement, I was merely pointing out the fact that the greatest scientists of human history were never Nobel Laureates or winners of the Nobel prize. So, the question of an *Islamic scientist* coming close is now a conciliation point from yourself.

To answer your point however, it was the Islamic Golden age that pulled Europe out of the dark ages, which lead to the Renaissance period of Europe, resulting in incredible art and architecture. I am sure you will agree. The point? I could list names, but it will not matter to you, because what you fail to realise is that Islamic scientists didn’t just contribute to science but contributed to modern lexicon, such was the influence.

The comment with respect to Oscars, well, it was a parallel to your love for Nobel laureates. It seems to me your scope of respect is confined within an award. Like I said, narrow minded. You prove my point by stating - *Not every great movie won an Oscar* - you tripped yourself again.

Speaking of Nobel Prize, did you know there is no Nobel Prize with respect to Mathematics? Go Google and educate yourself why. Hint – infidelity.

Honestly, I do not think you are a doctor. I know a few doctors and believe me they just do not have the time to spend with their family let alone post verse after verse on a forum. I think you are a painter shacked up in your parent’s home, trying to sell his paintings (inspired by suffering and deep emotions). Art is after all an expression of emotion, but you sir take the biscuit.

Here’s a fun fact, do you know why Hitler despised the Jews? It was because he too was a painter, but his paintings were rejected by Jewish art sellers. How many Muslim art sellers turned your paintings down?

You have proved your genius for second time today. The first instance was that Asad Umar is simply ill and was not sacked because PTI deemed his performance inadequate or because they crumbled under pressure.

And now you have successfully blown my cover. I am a fake doctor because I post on PP daily, and in reality, I am just an art tragic with the same psychological issues as Adolf Hitler. Not only are you a genius, you also seem to be the second coming of Sigmund Freud. You have taken psychoanalysis to a level that has not been reached since the days of Freud.

 

[Technics 1210]

You really are so very disingenuous. So Aristotle (logic), Euclid (geometry), Pythagoras (famous theorem) mean nothing to you? I am no historian of mathematics but a quick Google search will show a multitude of Greek mathematicians. And they didn't just have mathematics, they were prolific in Physics too.

And the Muslim academics that you so idolise weren't influenced by anything? al-Khwarizmi was influenced by Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Chinese mathematicians. Try again.

Nothing you have said changes the fact Greeks mathematicians and scientists were educated, and influenced, by the Egyptians. This doesn't surprise me given your lack of understanding of science. But hey, we all need a good laugh.

In your world, chance is your God. Stick to this.

I bet you looked up Rosetta stone too.

Brilliant, Just brilliant.

 

[Technics 1210]

You have proved your genius for second time today. The first instance was that Asad Umar is simply ill and was not sacked because PTI deemed his performance inadequate or because they crumbled under pressure.

And now you have successfully blown my cover. I am a fake doctor because I post on PP daily, and in reality, I am just an art tragic with the same psychological issues as Adolf Hitler. Not only are you a genius, you also seem to be the second coming of Sigmund Freud. You have taken psychoanalysis to a level that has been reached since the days of Freud.

The fact you have not countered any point other than turn defensive with respective to the comments which elude to your fraudulent cover, refer to past threads, and your blatant love for art tells me everything.

You clearly didn't do your homework and got schooled.

Why you so insecure bud? No need to fret.

 

[Mamoon]

You really are so very disingenuous. So Aristotle (logic), Euclid (geometry), Pythagoras (famous theorem) mean nothing to you? I am no historian of mathematics but a quick Google search will show a multitude of Greek mathematicians. And they didn't just have mathematics, they were prolific in Physics too.

And the Muslim academics that you so idolise weren't influenced by anything? al-Khwarizmi was influenced by Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Chinese mathematicians. Try again.

Muslim academics are influenced by their faith, while others are busy plagiarising.

 

[Tubs]

Nothing you have said changes the fact Greeks mathematicians and scientists were educated, and influenced, by the Egyptians. This doesn't surprise me given your lack of understanding of science. But hey, we all need a good laugh.

In your world, chance is your God. Stick to this.

I bet you looked up Rosetta stone too.

Brilliant, Just brilliant.

You made no argument here, all ad hominem.

The Muslim scientists were influenced by those who came before them, nothing can change that.

In my world, there is no God, I know it's hard for you to understand that.

Anyone with any interest in classics, ancient history, or ancient thought is fully aware what the Rosetta Stone is. That doesn't change anything. Oh, and again, it isn't an argument.

What are your scientific credentials, oh wise one?

 

[Technics 1210]

I am not fretting. I am simply bowing down to your genius.

I did not have an answer to your searing spell of R3verse Swing and was clean bowled.

I cannot be a genius in your eyes, for I have not won a Nobel prize!

Seriously, how many paintings have you sold?

Want to hook up with Sotheby's?

I am willing to bet one of your favourite movies is Dil Chahta Hai. If you have not seen it, it's right up your street.

 

[Tubs]

Ad hominem after ad hominem.

Do carry on.

 

[Technics 1210]

You made no argument here, all ad hominem.

The Muslim scientists were influenced by those who came before them, nothing can change that.

In my world, there is no God, I know it's hard for you to understand that.

Anyone with any interest in classics, ancient history, or ancient thought is fully aware what the Rosetta Stone is. That doesn't change anything. Oh, and again, it isn't an argument.

What are your scientific credentials, oh wise one?

It just happened it not an argument, it's a position of insecurity.

You still have not refuted the fact Greeks were educated by the Egyptians.

Side point, the Golden age of Islam was inspired by the Qur'an - which clearly you have not read either.

All the best.

 

[Tubs]

It just happened it not an argument.

You still have not refuted the fact Greeks were educated by the Egyptians.

All the best.

There's nothing to refute. It is entirely plausible, and is most likely the true in some cases. But it is a non-issue. Who do we remember, Einstein or his teacher? Everyone learns from someone, it doesn't at all diminish that the Greeks took the understanding of the time to new heights.

Again, the Muslim academics that you so admire were influenced by Baylonians, Greeks, Chinese and Egyptians. Why is being influenced by other people diminish the Greek's achievements but not the Muslims'?

Oh, and I never said 'it just happened'.

 

[Technics 1210]

There's nothing to refute. It is entirely plausible, and is most likely the true in some cases. But it is a non-issue. Who do we remember, Einstein or his teacher? Everyone learns from someone, it doesn't at all diminish that the Greeks took the understanding of the time to new heights.

Again, the Muslim academics that you so admire were influenced by Baylonians, Greeks, Chinese and Egyptians. Why is being influenced by other people diminish the Greek's achievements but not the Muslims'?

Oh, and I never said 'it just happened'.

There it is. Intelligence begets intelligence, this is the concession I was waiting for, but such logic doesn't apply to life according to Flukists, nope, when it comes to life, it just happened, out of thin air, like a rabbit out of a hat, no cause, just random nonsense.

Game over.

 

[Tubs]

There it is. Intelligence begets intelligence, this is the concession I was waiting for, but such logic doesn't apply to life according to Flukists, nope, when it comes to life, it just happened, out of thin air, like a rabbit out of a hat, no cause, just random nonsense.

Game over.

'We don't know so God did it.'

As I said, abiogenesis is a current research topic. It fills you with such glee that the answer hasn't been found yet, it is very sad.

You keep asserting things without evidence, and I'll keep dismissing them.

 

[Technics 1210]

'We don't know so God did it.'

As I said, abiogenesis is a current research topic. It fills you with such glee that the answer hasn't been found yet, it is very sad.

You keep asserting things without evidence, and I'll keep dismissing them.

Flukists do not know so their God of chance did it. It just happened, and happens.

Coming from a guy who is desperate for a solution to abiogeneis because it renders an intelligence entity pointless is saying something. The faith is strong with this one. He believes in a world of cause and effect, but believes life came into existence by a throw of dice.

I guess he also believe art, such as paintings, come into existence just like that. Gravity, Electromagnetism, Strong and Weak nuclear forces - hold a paint brush and produce a marvel!

By the way, no plagiarized posts on evidence of Abiogeneis, well this is because there is none. If lack of evidence is considered a dismissal I shudder to think what is considered evidence.

Here's hoping.

 

[Tubs]

Flukists do not know so their God of chance did it. It just happened, and happens.

Coming from a guy who is desperate for a solution to abiogeneis because it renders an intelligence entity pointless is saying something. The faith is strong with this one. He believes in a world of cause and effect, but believes life came into existence by a throw of dice.

I guess he also believe art, such as paintings, come into existence just like that. Gravity, Electromagnetism, Strong and Weak nuclear forces - hold a paint brush and produce a marvel!

By the way, no plagiarized posts on evidence of Abiogeneis, well this is because there is none. If lack of evidence is considered a dismissal I shudder to think what is considered evidence.

Here's hoping.

Another ad hominem.

There are hypotheses on abiogenesis, but they are just that for now.

The RNA World hypothesis seems to be the most prevalent one at the moment, and experiments have shown that simple compounds can be combined to create half of the constituents of RNA. Other evidence has shown that geologic compounds can cause chemical reactions which bring about nucleic acid, lipids and amino acids.

And as I said before, it could be God mixing those things together, believe that if you wish, but the process outlined can happen with or without God.

But I know you won't listen.

 

[Technics 1210]

Another ad hominem.

There are hypotheses on abiogenesis, but they are just that for now.

The RNA World hypothesis seems to be the most prevalent one at the moment, and experiments have shown that simple compounds can be combined to create half of the constituents of RNA. Other evidence has shown that geologic compounds can cause chemical reactions which bring about nucleic acid, lipids and amino acids.

And as I said before, it could be God mixing those things together, believe that if you wish, but the process outlined can happen with or without God.

But I know you won't listen.

DNA cannot existing without protein, and protein cannot exist without DNA.

For a fully functional cell to appear, every aspect of the cell must appear at once - the membrane, proteins, carbohydrates, cytoplasm, nucleas, ribsomes, lysosomes, and mitochondria, RNA, and DNA. If any component is missing, the cell will die - meaning all components of a cell must appear at the same time, not through chemical evolution of individual compounds.

So you can take your abiogenesis hypotheses and bin it.

 

[Tubs]

Responded to that on the other thread, which isn't about abiogenesis and neither is this one.

You couldn't argue that Muslim academics, who according to you would dominate the Nobel Laureate table, weren't influenced by others when you claimed that the Greeks being influenced by others lowered their achievements. Stop deflecting the topics at hand.

 

[Stewie]

I think this is an interesting point which begs another question. Why are most Muslim countries struggling to prosper? We can blame Western/Jewish conspiracies and Islamophobia all we want, but surely we have certain shortcomings that stands between us and excellence?

If Muslims were dominating the world today in various disciples like the West, we would take immense pride in how this is a reward for following the true faith.

It is certainly more of a collective failure than an individual one. Muslim countries simply don't have the environment in which innovation and creativity can thrive. Take the example of the popcorn seller in Pakistan who build a plane for himself. The poor fellow had to face the wrath of the police and had his plane confiscated, but if he was in some Western country, he would immediately get a platform where he can put his talents to use.

Unfortunately, the way he was treated, he must have lost every drop of passion and creativity that he had.

I always avoid trying to paint with a wide brush. Being a Muslim or called a Muslim nation means differently to different people. What you and I as Pakistanis mean by that, may not mean much to someone from say Jordan or Iran.

I believe it’s not a collective failure. Because as I have already pointed out some nations are thriving and prosperous but their focus may not be on innovation, Science and medicine. At that point it is not a Muslim
Issue or one tied to islam, it becomes a more of a cultural or national issue.

At least thats the way I look at it. To put it in another way, Pakistanis have their own reasons, Saudis have their own reasons, Iranians, Iraqis, Syrians, etc, etc their own and none of them have any common factor tied to them being Muslim countries..

Personally, and I say that as a big non believer in conspiracy theories, it all started after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and the Second World War. The Muslim World was torn apart and a lot of the separate countries had puppet rulers put in place. That is not a conspiracy theory, it’s history. Then the Palestinian issue has been plaguing is since then as well leading to the so day war, which really demoralized a lot of us. So of course a lot of these countries have seen turmoil and upheaval.

 

[Technics 1210]

Responded to that on the other thread, which isn't about abiogenesis and neither is this one.

You couldn't argue that Muslim academics, who according to you would dominate the Nobel Laureate table, weren't influenced by others when you claimed that the Greeks being influenced by others lowered their achievements. Stop deflecting the topics at hand.

I also stated Muslims's were influence by the Qur'an. You seem to miss the pertinent points which torpedo your ignorance.

If this helps you sleep at night, then so be it. But clearly you do not like being challenged and come out with pitiful excuses.

So what did you learn about the Rosetta stone tonight?

I know you haven't slept peacefully for the past few nights, the seed of doubt is in your mind, not my fault you subscribe to such nonsense.

Here's a thought, pick up a paint brush and express your emotions.

Good night!

 

[Tubs]

More ad hominems, you are a delight.

You were the one on the previous thread saying that abiogenesis shouldn't be mentioned in a thread about evolution, so please stop lying.

Condescension again, I already stated that I knew of the Rosetta Stone, as most people do. Please don't think you're special because you did.

Don't give yourself so much credit, it really is laughable. The science denier should never act so high and mighty.

What a clever little quip by you, do carry on.

 

[Romali_rotti]

This thread/OP is yet another veiled attack on Muslims.

Perhaps our resident art collector has forgotten the contribution Islam has made to medicine over the last 1400 years.

The OP's commentary is unnecessary.

Here are the words from the article, which make more sense.

The problem with muslim's like you is that you have your head buried in your religion that you have become blind as a result. Jews are a handful of ppl and they are controlling the world, instead of whinging, maybe you should ask yourself, how can we learn from the Jews ? And please don't reply back with a Palestine comment, the Israeli/Palestine issue is not for ppl of the subcontinent to worry about.

(True story this) I once caught a cab, the cabbie was an Afghan, he came to Australia right after 9-11 on a boat, he nearly died on the way here from Indonesia where he had to take the boat, he told me; what have the muslims achieved all this time ? Nothing, absolutely nothing, they like to boast about how their number are increasing but a handful of Jews are controlling the world my friend, while we muslims have been doing nothing but go to war since the time of Mohammad, we have achieved nothing constructive... He is now settled in Australia, brought his wife here from Afghanistan and have 2 kids, he tells his kids not to let religion control their lives as they have to control their destiny not the religious teaching...


P.S. Now before many Muslims here come guns blazing at me, which I dont mind, this is not an attack against ISLAM by me, I really don't care what religion you are but a mere opinion.....

 

[Chrish]

Overly religious people are still stuck in stone age (Muslims/ Hindus etc) while Jews/ Christians/ Buddhists etc. have made ton of economic progress in the past century.

Hindus do well outside of their own country where they are willing to leave backward mentality such as caste system/ worshiping all gurus etc. back home. But they are still stuck running the circus in motherland.

 

[Pakistanian]

Overly religious people are still stuck in stone age (Muslims/ Hindus etc) while Jews/ Christians/ Buddhists etc. have made ton of economic progress in the past century.

Hindus do well outside of their own country where they are willing to leave backward mentality such as caste system/ worshiping all gurus etc. back home. But they are still stuck running the circus in motherland.

jews are actually quite religious and take their religious tenets very seriously, samething with Christians at least here in America. Abrahamic people (Jews, Muslims, Christians) view religion differently from dharmic people.

 

[Chrish]

jews are actually quite religious and take their religious tenets very seriously, samething with Christians at least here in America. Abrahamic people (Jews, Muslims, Christians) view religion differently from dharmic people.

Vast majority of the Jewish scientists/ inventors have been non-practicing Jews.

Americans believe in Sunday Church; not 24/7 God worship that Hindus and Muslims seem to indulge in.

 

[Pakistanian]

Vast majority of the Jewish scientists/ inventors have been non-practicing Jews.

Americans believe in Sunday Church; not 24/7 God worship that Hindus and Muslims seem to indulge in.

Americans are very religious, people have bible study, on campus christian groups wide spread, a lot of athletes and celebrities and regular christians in America quote bible verses, even post them on social media. I'd say christians here are more religious than Hindus.

 

[Chrish]

Americans are very religious, people have bible study, on campus christian groups wide spread, a lot of athletes and celebrities and regular christians in America quote bible verses, even post them on social media. I'd say christians here are more religious than Hindus.

I am American. Vast majority aren’t close to being as religious as Indians or Muslims.

They believe in God etc but most don’t practice religion. Most of them have sex with multiple people for example even though it’s forbidden.

They go to church once a week (if that) and call it a day. Now of course there exceptions. For example few people would even go to other countries for missionary work but they aren’t the norm.

You can’t spend too much time on those sort of things and be still productive for the society.

 

[Pakistanian]

I am American. Vast majority aren’t close to being as religious as Indians or Muslims.

They believe in God etc but most don’t practice religion. Most of them have sex with multiple people for example even though it’s forbidden.

They go to church once a week (if that) and call it a day. Now of course there exceptions. For example few people would even go to other countries for missionary work but they aren’t the norm.

You can’t spend too much time on those sort of things and be still productive for the society.

I don't know if you were born and raised here but anybody that understands American society knows how religious Christians are. Even Muslims usually go to mosques only on Fridays. Over here it's common for many many American athletes like lebro, lonzo, tebow, manning etc and Hollywood celebrities to quote and tweet biblical verses, it's common for people in real life. People here take Jesus very seriously, having sex outside marriage is no longer considered deviant behavior and is acceptable but that doesn't mean people here aren't religious. Most Christians wouldn't marry a non-Christian here, as it's considered being "unequally yolked" unless they joined their church. Of course you might be confusing atheists and nominal Christians with believing Christians - the majority of Americans (white and black). Just look at how common churches are here especially in the midwest and the south, televangicals like Joel Austin have HUGE followings and sell out auditoriums. It took this country decades to legalize same sex marriage, and even longer to legalize abortions, we still states that are trying to ban it. Every president we've had has had to be a professed Christian in order to win elections, faith is a big of American society it's just different from the type of devotion in India, also America is a first world country so people have busy lives, can afford to have hobbies and be distracted from religion but inspite of that people are largely religious outside a few major liberal cities on the coasts.

 

[Mamoon]

I wonder if this heart is halal or haraam.

 

[Musakhel]

If you do your deeds for Allah, than with Allah is your reward, how can it be that you disbelieve in the one who created you than shamelessly ask for your reward from the one you disbelieved in.

 

[Afhan Ali]

Very Good Achievement by Jews

 

[Afhan Ali]

InshaAllah we Muslim will also do some goods for humanity.
It is about time

 

[Afhan Ali]

Why there is a debate between some posters regarding Muslims and non- Muslims

Islam also allows research and education, now it is up to individuals

 

[troodon]

I wonder if this heart is halal or haraam.

When it comes to life and death, everything is halal.

Even the greatest religious nuts who constantly criticize science will run to a doctor who prescribes a scientifically tested modern medicine when they are sick.

 

[troodon]

If you do your deeds for Allah, than with Allah is your reward, how can it be that you disbelieve in the one who created you than shamelessly ask for your reward from the one you disbelieved in.

How are you so sure that Allah or God created everything?

 

[Romali_rotti]

If you do your deeds for Allah, than with Allah is your reward, how can it be that you disbelieve in the one who created you than shamelessly ask for your reward from the one you disbelieved in.

Houston we got a small problem..


Before Allah

There were other religions claiming the same thing of their gods...


Hope you get the drift...

 

[Green Patriot]

So Allah SWT has no reward in store for people who have done wondrous deeds for humanity, simply because he didn't believe in His religion?

So a Muslim, who although has recited the kalimah and believes in Islam, has made no positive contribution to the world and spends his time drinking and partying will eventually be eligible to go to Heaven after paying for his sins, but a scientist who has spend years developing an invention that will serve millions of humans and of course Muslims in the future, will always stay in Hell because he didn't recite the kalimah.

What sort of criteria is this?

Allah has made it very clear that He will reward everyone for their good deeds.He is not injust at all.If a person is a nonbeliever but has done good deeds in his life his reward will be fully provided in this life and why should a person complain when they have never believed in Allah nor in the afterlife,with all its finer details,as He has informed us of. and neither is their focus on the afterlife.Their focus is this world and its achievements and so will their reward be in this world.
A true Muslim will focus on the afterlife and it is only befitting that his reward should also be there.
However in no way does that mean Muslims are not encouraged to participate in worldly affairs.They just have to ensure that their focus on afterlife is always a step ahead than the dunya.It is our own failure that we have done nothing of notable achievement in this world and the worst part is the Muslims of today are neither achieving anything in this world nor preparing for the Hereafter. We are at a complete dead end because we have drifted away from the teachings of our religion unlike the Muslim scholars of olden times who achieved massively in this world as well as the hereafter as is apparent from their accounts.

And when one does not believe in Allah the way He has instructed us to do so then why does He want to stay an eternal life in His heaven.It is only Allah's benevolence that He will reward them here for whatever they have done here even though He is not bound to.But He is just and will not discredit your achievements.However if there has been no preparation for the afterlife as He has commanded then why be sour if there is no reward there either.The achievements and focus is devoutly here and so will the reward be.

 

[Musakhel]

How are you so sure that Allah or God created everything?

That is not the argument, OP has a problem with the Islamic belief that non believers will not enter paradise regardless of their good deeds and achievements, I was responding to that.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why cant Jewish achievements just be Jewish instead of comparing it to others?

Btw if you claim 15 million Jews are so successful it's only fair to point out more than 50% are also evil who like to steal others lands and are happy when those people are killed. Half the worlds Jews approve of the mal treatment of others says more about them than any achievement imo.

 

[Bilal7]

Does the OP believe that Elon Musk and Bill Gates are saints because of their scientific and technological advancements?

 

[Bilal7]

I think this is an interesting point which begs another question. Why are most Muslim countries struggling to prosper? We can blame Western/Jewish conspiracies and Islamophobia all we want, but surely we have certain shortcomings that stands between us and excellence?

If Muslims were dominating the world today in various disciples like the West, we would take immense pride in how this is a reward for following the true faith.

It is certainly more of a collective failure than an individual one. Muslim countries simply don't have the environment in which innovation and creativity can thrive. Take the example of the popcorn seller in Pakistan who build a plane for himself. The poor fellow had to face the wrath of the police and had his plane confiscated, but if he was in some Western country, he would immediately get a platform where he can put his talents to use.

Unfortunately, the way he was treated, he must have lost every drop of passion and creativity that he had.

History is clearly not your strong suit. Read up on colonialism.

So Allah SWT has no reward in store for people who have done wondrous deeds for humanity, simply because he didn't believe in His religion?

So a Muslim, who although has recited the kalimah and believes in Islam, has made no positive contribution to the world and spends his time drinking and partying will eventually be eligible to go to Heaven after paying for his sins, but a scientist who has spend years developing an invention that will serve millions of humans and of course Muslims in the future, will always stay in Hell because he didn't recite the kalimah.

What sort of criteria is this?

Take a break from reading about colonialism and then read the Quran.

 

[Mueez]

This breakthrough is neither valuable for religious purpose but it is a major breakthrough for humanity and we can save many lives because of this.

I hope I will also do something for our beloved world and our mankind. InshaAllah.

And coming to the second last paragraph of OP, it is indeed true that other religions have followed Islam’s actual rituals and we, Muslims, have fallen behind other religions because of:

a) there is no unity between us, between our Muslim brothers and sisters.

b) we, Muslims, have forgotten our roots and this is the most important reason why Islam has fallen behind.

All in all, if we want Islam to succeed, we will have to re-evaluate our actual values and where our main focus should be.

It hurts me to see fellow Muslims doing ‘wrong things’ which portrays Islam as a bad deed to practice and meanwhile the West have inherited our principles which were mentioned by our Prophet Muhammad (saw).

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Wonderful achievement.

These Jews are small in number but their achievements tower over every community in the world. Incredible really.

As for the other part of Mamoon's post, this is where Karma and multiple birth (until salvation) concept helps.

I believe these scientiests ain't going to hell. They will be rewarded for helping humanity.

 

[IAJ]

Instead of sticking to the real topic in article OP has taken advantage of this and started critisizing 2 billion muslims.

Allah SWT is the God of all the Worlds, not only muslims. He decides to whom he gives wisdom. If Jews work hard and have been given this gift of wisdom from Him, well then muslims have to start working hard as well and seek His help, in sha Allah they will get it too.

 

[Mamoon]

History is clearly not your strong suit. Read up on colonialism.



Take a break from reading about colonialism and then read the Quran.

Oh well, please enlighten us all how colonialism ensured that the Muslim community lost its thirst for science forever. Blaming others is the easiest thing to do, but what the Muslim community lacks is introspection and admitting their own shortcomings.

For every problem of ours, we have a justification - Islamophobia, conspiracy, hatred, colonialism etc., as if without these factors, Muslims would be on top of the world today and would already be giving Friday prayer sermons on Mars.

 

[Mueez]

Oh well, please enlighten us all how colonialism ensured that the Muslim community lost its thirst for science forever. Blaming others is the easiest thing to do, but what the Muslim community lacks is introspection and admitting their own shortcomings.

For every problem of ours, we have a justification - Islamophobia, conspiracy, hatred, colonialism etc., as if without these factors, Muslims would be on top of the world today and would already be giving Friday prayer sermons on Mars.

Summed it up perfectly.

Ofcourse these reason do play their role but it is our own fault for the existence of above-named problems.

For us to succeed we will have to analyze where it has gone wrong and do not make the same mistake again.

 

[Mamoon]

Summed it up perfectly.

Ofcourse these reason do play their role but it is our own fault for the existence of above-named problems.

For us to succeed we will have to analyze where it has gone wrong and do not make the same mistake again.

Unfortunately, it is very ease to blame external factors instead of looking in the mirror.

Throughout their history, with the exception of the last 60-70 years, the Jews have faced greater persecution and hatred than Muslims. Yet, that did not stop them from being high-achievers.

In fact, they won several Nobel prizes in medicine, physics and chemistry at a time when they didn’t even have a homeland.

They didn’t use their minority status, their persecution and the fact that they didn’t have their own country as excuses for not excelling in various disciples.

 

[Mamoon]

Instead of sticking to the real topic in article OP has taken advantage of this and started critisizing 2 billion muslims.

Allah SWT is the God of all the Worlds, not only muslims. He decides to whom he gives wisdom. If Jews work hard and have been given this gift of wisdom from Him, well then muslims have to start working hard as well and seek His help, in sha Allah they will get it too.

Why that is not happening and hasn’t happened since our golden age ended in the 1400s is something that needs to be discussed.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-m...-scientists-print-3d-heart-using-human-tissue

View attachment 90604

Without going into technical jargon, this is - in simple words - one of the biggest breakthrough in medicine history.

Then we wonder why Jews (roughly 20 million population) are in a stronger position than Muslims (nearly 2 billion people), why Jewish and Zionist propaganda is stronger than Muslim propaganda and why Islamophobia is more rampant than anti-Semitism.

190+ Nobel laureates in science and literature compared to only 5 for Muslims tells a story. One of them Dr. Abdus Salam of course whose legacy we have tried to wipe out because he was an Ahmadi.

While the important discourses in the Muslim world are life after death, why evolution is a myth (we get a glimpse of it on PP), whether keeping a beard is obligatory or not and whether you have to perform ablution if you spill blood, the Jews continue to reach new heights in the world of science and medicine with less people than that of Karachi and Lahore combined.

According to the esteemed scholars of Islam, Professor Tal Dvir, the man behind this invention that will potentially change the lives of millions of people in future generations, will go to Hell because he didn't recite "kalimah".

Instead of crying about why the world is out to get us, perhaps it is time for us Muslims to look inwards and try to understand why we are lagging so much in terms of contributions to the world of science and medicine.

You are a doctor and prosperous as well so why don't you invent something useful for the world instead criticizing Muslims & Pakistanis every where. You can limit the usage of your invention only for non Muslims & non Pakistanis and I assure no Pakistani and Muslim will question you. But at least do something for the humanity.

 

[Afhan Ali]

[/b]

Why that is not happening and hasn’t happened since our golden age ended in the 1400s is something that needs to be discussed.

Because Muslims are not hardworking as for as science and technology is concerned. If Muslim also start hard work they can also do what jews are doing now

 

[Mueez]

Unfortunately, it is very ease to blame external factors instead of looking in the mirror.

Throughout their history, with the exception of the last 60-70 years, the Jews have faced greater persecution and hatred than Muslims. Yet, that did not stop them from being high-achievers.

In fact, they won several Nobel prizes in medicine, physics and chemistry at a time when they didn’t even have a homeland.

They didn’t use their minority status, their persecution and the fact that they didn’t have their own country as excuses for not excelling in various disciples.

Absolutely as you have mentioned, the Jews didn’t use their minority status as an excuse to not do anything significant for the world.

However the Muslim population did use it and you can see where we are now in the world and what people think about us.

But I hope that the newer Muslim generations will change the fortunes of Islam and I hope to contribute as well to change the perspective of Muslims (inshaAllah).

 

[Mamoon]

You are a doctor and prosperous as well so why don't you invent something useful for the world instead criticizing Muslims & Pakistanis every where. You can limit the usage of your invention only for non Muslims & non Pakistanis and I assure no Pakistani and Muslim will question you. But at least do something for the humanity.

While your attempt at point-scoring is admirable, it has already been addressed in post #17.

 

[Pakistanian]

Wonderful achievement.

These Jews are small in number but their achievements tower over every community in the world. Incredible really.

As for the other part of Mamoon's post, this is where Karma and multiple birth (until salvation) concept helps.

I believe these scientiests ain't going to hell. They will be rewarded for helping humanity.

Specifically Ashkenazi (European) Jews are known to be smart and more educated. The mizrahim and sephardi jews not so much and they make up a bigger number of israel's population than ashkenazis yet ashkenazis dominate science and academia. Even all of Israel's Prime Minister have been Ashkenazis.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Specifically Ashkenazi (European) Jews are known to be smart and more educated. The mizrahim and sephardi jews not so much and they make up a bigger number of israel's population than ashkenazis yet ashkenazis dominate science and academia. Even all of Israel's Prime Minister have been Ashkenazis.

Oh I see...thanks for the info.

 

[barah_admi]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-m...-scientists-print-3d-heart-using-human-tissue

View attachment 90604

Without going into technical jargon, this is - in simple words - one of the biggest breakthrough in medicine history.

Then we wonder why Jews (roughly 20 million population) are in a stronger position than Muslims (nearly 2 billion people), why Jewish and Zionist propaganda is stronger than Muslim propaganda and why Islamophobia is more rampant than anti-Semitism.

190+ Nobel laureates in science and literature compared to only 5 for Muslims tells a story. One of them Dr. Abdus Salam of course whose legacy we have tried to wipe out because he was an Ahmadi.

While the important discourses in the Muslim world are life after death, why evolution is a myth (we get a glimpse of it on PP), whether keeping a beard is obligatory or not and whether you have to perform ablution if you spill blood, the Jews continue to reach new heights in the world of science and medicine with less people than that of Karachi and Lahore combined.

According to the esteemed scholars of Islam, Professor Tal Dvir, the man behind this invention that will potentially change the lives of millions of people in future generations, will go to Hell because he didn't recite "kalimah".

Instead of crying about why the world is out to get us, perhaps it is time for us Muslims to look inwards and try to understand why we are lagging so much in terms of contributions to the world of science and medicine.

Why have you turned this into a Jew v Muslim issue?

It is terrific new (if true, if verified and if the heart functions), what hast his got to do with your usual anti-Islam and Pakistan rhetoric?

 

[Mamoon]

Why have you turned this into a Jew v Muslim issue?

It is terrific new (if true, if verified and if the heart functions), what hast his got to do with your usual anti-Islam and Pakistan rhetoric?

The Muslim community should be prepared to discuss the failure of Muslim countries to contribute towards science since the Islamic Golden Age ended in the 14th century.

Learning from the Jews is a good reference point. We blame the prejudice against Muslims, Islamophobia, white supremacy, conspiracies etc. to justify our failures, but the Jews have suffered more through the course of history, and yet that has not deterred them from scientific achievements.

However, it appears that we are not interested in exploring the reasons of why we have lagged behind and neither are we bothered to get to the root of the problem.

In our minds, we have convinced ourselves that the rich Muslim countries do not have to invest in R&D since we can simply buy the inventions of the West.

Perhaps we should join hands and proudly proclaim that inshAllah Muslim countries will continue to make zero contributions even for the next 10,000 years.

 

[WC-Passion]

The Muslim community should be prepared to discuss the failure of Muslim countries to contribute towards science since the Islamic Golden Age ended in the 14th century.

Learning from the Jews is a good reference point. We blame the prejudice against Muslims, Islamophobia, white supremacy, conspiracies etc. to justify our failures, but the Jews have suffered more through the course of history, and yet that has not deterred them from scientific achievements.

However, it appears that we are not interested in exploring the reasons of why we have lagged behind and neither are we bothered to get to the root of the problem.

In our minds, we have convinced ourselves that the rich Muslim countries do not have to invest in R&D since we can simply buy the inventions of the West.

Perhaps we should join hands and proudly proclaim that inshAllah Muslim countries will continue to make zero contributions even for the next 10,000 years.

Exploring the reasons Islamic countries have not lagged behind? Impossible! It must be Islamophobia!

Seriously it's disappointing that this thread is full of excuses for Muslim countries that have quite frankly underachieved for too long. Unfortunately, they're too busy focusing on oil and their "trades" with the US.

Can't say I admire Jews or Israel, but that's a whole different can of worms.

Gotta make that sweet, sweet money after all...