Israeli scientists create first 3D-printed heart with blood vessels

[barah_admi]

The Muslim community should be prepared to discuss the failure of Muslim countries to contribute towards science since the Islamic Golden Age ended in the 14th century.

Learning from the Jews is a good reference point. We blame the prejudice against Muslims, Islamophobia, white supremacy, conspiracies etc. to justify our failures, but the Jews have suffered more through the course of history, and yet that has not deterred them from scientific achievements.

However, it appears that we are not interested in exploring the reasons of why we have lagged behind and neither are we bothered to get to the root of the problem.

In our minds, we have convinced ourselves that the rich Muslim countries do not have to invest in R&D since we can simply buy the inventions of the West.

Perhaps we should join hands and proudly proclaim that inshAllah Muslim countries will continue to make zero contributions even for the next 10,000 years.

First of all, you could have created a separate thread on the issue but it is clear why you did not, because you wanted to mask your prejudice and bigotry behind this facade of a thread.

Now, let's address some of the points being made here.

Yes the Jews have done really well and Israel is particularly well advanced in medicine and various other forms of science but we also have to be entirely honest about how they got to this stage. Israel is almost entirely funded by the west, in fact to the US's own foreign aid website, a fifth of its entire foreign aid program is geared towards this one country. Billions of dollars funneled from the world's powerful country into a nation barely the size of New Jersey. They have immense, almost limitless resources to fund such research.

The Jews, as you put it, did not manage to do this by themselves, they have huge international financial backers.

Then you claim, as you have done many times before, that Muslims have contributed nothing sincet he so called Islamic Golden Age. This is utter nonsense.

If we only look at the last 100 years or so, there have been the likes of Sancar (whose work advanced the mechanical understanding of DNA repair), Ziaur Rahman is one of the pioneers of pharmacovigilance, there is the Nobel prize winning Zewail who is known as the founder of femtochemistry, the founder of reticular chemistry is also Muslim, and not to forget the influential mind in the Soviet space program was also Muslim.

I could go on and on but you will probably come up with yet another un founded, bigoted argument, maybe something along the lines of "well some of them do not have beards so they can not be Muslim".

I wait with bated breath.

 

[Mamoon]

First of all, you could have created a separate thread on the issue but it is clear why you did not, because you wanted to mask your prejudice and bigotry behind this facade of a thread.

Now, let's address some of the points being made here.

Yes the Jews have done really well and Israel is particularly well advanced in medicine and various other forms of science but we also have to be entirely honest about how they got to this stage. Israel is almost entirely funded by the west, in fact to the US's own foreign aid website, a fifth of its entire foreign aid program is geared towards this one country. Billions of dollars funneled from the world's powerful country into a nation barely the size of New Jersey. They have immense, almost limitless resources to fund such research.

The Jews, as you put it, did not manage to do this by themselves, they have huge international financial backers.

Then you claim, as you have done many times before, that Muslims have contributed nothing sincet he so called Islamic Golden Age. This is utter nonsense.

If we only look at the last 100 years or so, there have been the likes of Sancar (whose work advanced the mechanical understanding of DNA repair), Ziaur Rahman is one of the pioneers of pharmacovigilance, there is the Nobel prize winning Zewail who is known as the founder of femtochemistry, the founder of reticular chemistry is also Muslim, and not to forget the influential mind in the Soviet space program was also Muslim.

I could go on and on but you will probably come up with yet another un founded, bigoted argument, maybe something along the lines of "well some of them do not have beards so they can not be Muslim".

I wait with bated breath.

While I appreciate your effort to google Muslim scientists, you wouldn’t have to make the effort had you cared to read my opening post properly.

I have already accounted for Ahmed Zewail and Aziz Sancar (who was also a Nobel Prize winner) when I stated the following:

190+ Nobel laureates in science and literature (Jews) compared to only 5 for Muslims tells a story. One of them Dr. Abdus Salam of course whose legacy we have tried to wipe out because he was an Ahmadi.

So you really haven’t added anything new to this discourse because you have simply mentioned the Muslim contributors that I talked about in my opening post.

The fact that we have only produced 3 Nobel laureates (one of them an Ahmadi) with a population of roughly 2 billion is an eye-opener.

Yes it is true that Israel has the luxury of heavy funding by the U.S., but that funding cannot explain how and why they won several Nobel prizes at a time when they were severely persecuted, discriminated and didn’t even have their homeland.

They didn’t become high achievers in science after the formation of Israel and the subsequent backing of the U.S. who emerged as the leader of the new world after WWII; they have always been high achievers and never used their plight as an excuse.

The rich Muslim countries are not investing in R&D in nearly as much as they should. There is a clear fundamental problem here that we need to address.

Unfortunately, it appears that Muslims are content with their status in the world and have convinced themselves that because of so and so reasons, they are justified to be severe underachievers in scientific research.

 

[slice]

Well,,,seems like its a see saw thread.I cant exactly agree with either side

 

[barah_admi]

While I appreciate your effort to google Muslim scientists, you wouldn’t have to make the effort had you cared to read my opening post properly.

I have already accounted for Ahmed Zewail and Aziz Sancar (who was also a Nobel Prize winner) when I stated the following:



So you really haven’t added anything new to this discourse because you have simply mentioned the Muslim contributors that I talked about in my opening post.

The fact that we have only produced 3 Nobel laureates (one of them an Ahmadi) with a population of roughly 2 billion is an eye-opener.

Yes it is true that Israel has the luxury of heavy funding by the U.S., but that funding cannot explain how and why they won several Nobel prizes at a time when they were severely persecuted, discriminated and didn’t even have their homeland.

They didn’t become high achievers in science after the formation of Israel and the subsequent backing of the U.S. who emerged as the leader of the new world after WWII; they have always been high achievers and never used their plight as an excuse.

The rich Muslim countries are not investing in R&D in nearly as much as they should. There is a clear fundamental problem here that we need to address.

Unfortunately, it appears that Muslims are content with their status in the world and have convinced themselves that because of so and so reasons, they are justified to be severe underachievers in scientific research.

As I assumed you would, you have mounted a useless argument and changed the goal posts. Now it is not about contribution to science but only those with a Nobel prize.

Why does the Nobel prize matter? From its very conception it has been highly politicised.

"Perhaps we should join hands and proudly proclaim that inshAllah Muslim countries will continue to make zero contributions even for the next 10,000 years."

You claim that there has been zero contribution from Muslims, not the case. You claim zero contribution from Muslim countries, not the case. I've disproved you in 4 paragraphs and yet you have an entire thread of non sense.

Do you want to clarify what I have quoted directly from you? If you do not do so in the next post then as usual, I will no longer reply to your nonsense.

 

[Mamoon]

As I assumed you would, you have mounted a useless argument and changed the goal posts. Now it is not about contribution to science but only those with a Nobel prize.

Why does the Nobel prize matter? From its very conception it has been highly politicised.

"Perhaps we should join hands and proudly proclaim that inshAllah Muslim countries will continue to make zero contributions even for the next 10,000 years."

You claim that there has been zero contribution from Muslims, not the case. You claim zero contribution from Muslim countries, not the case. I've disproved you in 4 paragraphs and yet you have an entire thread of non sense.

Do you want to clarify what I have quoted directly from you? If you do not do so in the next post then as usual, I will no longer reply to your nonsense.

I am not sure what the point of your tirade is when I already proved to you that the 2-3 scientists that you mentioned (Ahmed Zewail, Aziz Sancar etc.) have already been covered in my original post when I mentioned the Muslim Noble laureates.

You of course failed to read the original post and decided to join the argument midway which meant that you failed to add anything new. Had I not mentioned the contribution of the few Muslim scientists in the modern times, you would have made a sound argument by mentioning those names.

However, unfortunately for you, I acknowledged them in my very first post.

I find it hysterical that the contribution of 3-4 Muslim scientists since the Islamic Golden Age is enough validation for you that the Muslim community have not greatly struggled to contribute towards science.

You have literally not disproved anything because you have literally not added anything new to the argument. Let me walk you through it with a simply analogy.

I said: except 5 student, no one in the class managed to get an A.

you said: 5 students managed to get an A.

This has been the depth of your argument in this thread. Had you cared to read the opening post, you would have saved yourself a lot of time, effort and a bit of embarrassment as well.

Yes I am willing to clarify my quote. The Islamic Golden Age ended in 14th century, and in the last 600+ years, both and you and I came up with only 3-4 Muslim scientists contributors, which by all accounts is as good as zero when you consider the fact that there are roughly 2 billion Muslims in the world today.

Now as far as the obsession with Nobel Prize is concerned, it is the most highly regarded and prestigous recognition for scientific achievement in the world, and has been since its inception in the 1890s. Not every great scientist has won a Nobel Prize, but every laureate (except for the peace prize which has become a political joke) has won it because of significant contribution in his/her field.

The fact that only 3 Muslims (including one Ahmadi) have been the recipients for the sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Medicine) in over a century with 2 billion people is nothing short of embarrassing.

Furthermore, we will hardly come up with more than 2-3 names if we dig deep and try to find out the Muslims who deserve or deserved to receive this award but were unlucky to not get it. On the other hand, the Jews have won over 190+ awards with a population less than that of Lahore and Karachi combined.

You also tried to discredit their achievements because of the heavy funding that Israel receives from the U.S., but I debunked your theory by stating that they won several Nobel Prizes long before the formation of Israel and at a time when the Jews were heavily persecuted and discriminated.

I also think we are done here. Next time read the OP carefully before presenting your argument, because you wouldn't want to repeat the same mistake that you did here.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Terrific invention, thought i dont see why the OP decided to bash Muslims/Pakistanis for not having Noble Laureates. The overwhelming majority of Noble Prize in science have been won by people of European descent. White people made the modern world. Almost every major invention was done by them, so its not a surprise that they will have the most awards. Japan is the only non European country with a decent amount of winners.

So instead of bashing Pakistanis/Muslims let us praise the Europeans, and people of European descent, and the culture that they have created. And if you want to criticize a group of people for not having enough winners, do it equally. So criticize China, India, Sub Sahara Africa, etc also for the lack of progress in Science.

Also as far as Jews having a disproportionate winners, they deserve a tremendous amount of praise for that, but even among them the winners were mostly Jews of European descent, not Middle Eastern, and African Jews.

 

[QazzarFan]

Problems with Muslims is very much evident in this thread instead of appreciating OP they are busy tearing him down. At least he has the courage of self introspection and recognizing the key factors that's plaguing Muslims worldwide.Hoeever most people are accustomed to blaming non-Muslims for their own failures. The problem is you see the world as Muslims vs xyz.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I wonder if this heart is halal or haraam.

Or you have to use your right hand or left to print it.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Great invention that will save so many lives. Israel is the best in everything it does.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Great invention that will save so many lives. Israel is the best in everything it does.

Esp killing people. Israel is known for harvesting organs from Palestinians, so this will indeed help them.

 

[slipcatch]

Problems with Muslims is very much evident in this thread instead of appreciating OP they are busy tearing him down. At least he has the courage of self introspection and recognizing the key factors that's plaguing Muslims worldwide.Hoeever most people are accustomed to blaming non-Muslims for their own failures. The problem is you see the world as Muslims vs xyz.

Problem with your kind is that you have a very simplistic and naive view of the world.

And it’s morphed by your inability to view the world and current affairs as a whole.

Here is an example, Saudi killed a journalist, the beacon of freedom of press still supporting Saudi regime. Please answer why is that?

Another display of your naivety is that OP being brought down because he attempted to put Muslims down when he could have just appreciated the breakthrough in medical science.