Farhan The Man
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And with this single statement. It's now to the death.
My mum always said god gives courage to only those who are on the side of truth.
They never bow down, nor retreat. Nor ceasefire.
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Contact the PP Team
Israeli strikes across Gaza kill at least 235 Palestinians and shatter ceasefire with Hamas [Update @post#234]
- Thread starter BouncerGuy
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My mum always said god gives courage to only those who are on the side of truth.
They never bow down, nor retreat. Nor ceasefire.
aboveandbeyond
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I Presume, by this you mean The Palestinians. Opressed for the best part of a Century. Only through Divine intervention, people hold on to this strength.
So why does Hamas not negotiate or give a counter ??
Yeah by rejecting all peace deals and resorting to violent and terrorism. Hamas face mask is well and truly exposed. Let me share something with you .
In 2000 the Palestinians were given a very generous offer for an independent Palestinian state:
- all of Gaza
- 94% of WB with land swaps
- East Jerusalem
- Palestinian sovereignty and airspace
- Sharing of Temple Mount
- 40000 Palestinian "refugees" would become Israeli citizens
- A road connecting Gaza and WB
This was rejected without a counter proposal. In fact, Palestinians responded with the Second Intifada, resulting in over 1000 dead Israeli civilians and thousands injured.
Hamas have 0 leverage now. The Palestinian Authority is weak and illegitimate. Arab states have normalized with Israel.
The idea of 40000 Palestinian Arabs "refugees" coming in to Israel now is unthinkable. The idea of splitting up Jerusalem is impossible. Israeli settlements have only grown, making map realities eve more difficult.
Palestinians will never get a better deal than what they had offered to them in 2000. They would be lucky to get an Israeli PM to even want to be in the same room with them at this stage. To think how differently the Middle East could be if Arafat (who stole billions of dollars to give to his wife and daughter now living in Paris) actually gave a heck about the Palestinian Arabs.
It proves 2 things:
- Hamas do not care about building a state, but destroying Israel.
- Hamas never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, from the river to the sea
Farhan The Man
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There's only one side.
Screaming ceasefire. At every opportunity.
The other is acting decisively. And with purpose.
aboveandbeyond
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Maybe you should come down from cloud cookoo Land and live in reality world.
Greater Israel: The Zionist plan for territorial expansion
Share1FacebookLikeShareTweetEmail1 Muslims need to wake up to Israel’s plans for territorial expansion and urgently put in measures to stop it. After decades of wars, civil strife and uprisings, the Middle East is arriving at arguably the most dangerous inflection point in its recent history. In...
5pillarsuk.com
aboveandbeyond
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Acting decisively with the help of NATO led hypocrites.
Not surprised a Hindutwa has no sympathy for the opressed.
A lot of this war is because Palestine wants more than what they already deserve. I think that whole "From the river to the sea, Palestine will free" is yes an anti-Israeli policy, but let's be real here if the Palestinians had the power they would genocide the Jews in a heartbeat. Like I'm trying to be bipartisan and I acknowledge the Israeli government is absolutely horrible, but Palestine just keeps giving me reasons to have the peace talks swing more into Israel's favor.
You keep rejecting repeated deals , and you expect the other party to give you concessions. Doesnt work that way in reality. You sow what you reap. Hamas asked for it and is getting it back with interest .Maybe you should come down from cloud cookoo Land and live in reality world.
Greater Israel: The Zionist plan for territorial expansion
Share1FacebookLikeShareTweetEmail1 Muslims need to wake up to Israel’s plans for territorial expansion and urgently put in measures to stop it. After decades of wars, civil strife and uprisings, the Middle East is arriving at arguably the most dangerous inflection point in its recent history. In...
You keep rejecting repeated deals , and you expect the other party to give you concessions. Doesnt work that way in reality. You sow what you reap. Hamas asked for it and is getting it back with interest .Maybe you should come down from cloud cookoo Land and live in reality world.
Greater Israel: The Zionist plan for territorial expansion
Share1FacebookLikeShareTweetEmail1 Muslims need to wake up to Israel’s plans for territorial expansion and urgently put in measures to stop it. After decades of wars, civil strife and uprisings, the Middle East is arriving at arguably the most dangerous inflection point in its recent history. In...
aboveandbeyond
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Stop the whataboutery. The zionests extremists have no plan for peace, nor a two state solution.
The Greater Israel plan was formed decades ago by the colonial European zionest extremists.
So any response to why Palestine rejected the above peace deals ? It was a complete 2 state solution. Why did they reject it ?
Farhan The Man
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Ever wonder why "decisive" re-acts are missing from OIC-led hypocrites?
You are not on side of the truth. You are leaderless.
Consequently, you long for ceasefires.
aboveandbeyond
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If its not whataboutery, then you must have comprehension issues. There was never a 2 state solution in reality. Only time any solution for peace was seriously instigated was under Yitzhaq Rabin and Arafat . Rabin was then assassinated by a zionest extremist.
Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin | Israeli Prime Minister, Peace Deal, & Oslo Accords | Britannica
The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin took place on November 4, 1995, following a mass peace rally in Tel Aviv. He was killed by a Jewish extremist, Yigal Amir, who was angry about the Oslo Accords.
www.britannica.com
And off course we have the Greater Israeli Agenda. Mass annexation of territory beyond its borders.
aboveandbeyond
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Yet more whataboutery from a confused Hindutwa.
He wont answer that. He cant answer that. His religious belief doesn't allow him to answer that. He is a blind bhakt of Hamas where he can't see them doing any wrong. As you rightly said this conflict could have been resolved as soon as Hamas agree to the deal and release the hostages. Every neutral observer can see it except these Hamas loving momins who will give you every possible excuse and then will shed crocodile tears on Israel's brutality.
emranabbas
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@Rajdeep
What a silly argument If the Israeli's walk Into India and say you can keep most of India and we just want varanasi/kashi would you agree to it? Or try fight for your land that rightly belongs to you.
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The barbarians are on a parole for indefinite period
===
Gaza bodies seek independent probe into Israeli killing of medics
Israeli probe into killing of paramedics in Gaza finds ‘no evidence’ of execution
The Gaza civil defence and the Palestine Red Crescent Society call for an independent investigation into the killings of 14 Palestinian emergency workers and a UN employee, rejecting an Israeli investigation into last month’s brutal killing.
Yemen’s Houthis claim to have attacked US aircraft carriers after the US forces bombed a popular market in Yemen, killing at least 12 people.
Israeli forces have killed 39 people in Gaza in the past 24 hours, according to Gaza’s health ministry. At least 51,240 Palestinians have been confirmed dead and 116,931 wounded in Israel’s war on Gaza since it began 18 months ago.
The Gaza Government Media Office updated its death toll to more than 61,700, saying thousands of people missing under the rubble are presumed dead. At least 1,139 people were killed in Israel during the Hamas-led October 7, 2023, attacks, and more than 200 were taken captive.
Source: Al Jazeera
===
Gaza bodies seek independent probe into Israeli killing of medics
Israeli probe into killing of paramedics in Gaza finds ‘no evidence’ of execution
The Gaza civil defence and the Palestine Red Crescent Society call for an independent investigation into the killings of 14 Palestinian emergency workers and a UN employee, rejecting an Israeli investigation into last month’s brutal killing.
Yemen’s Houthis claim to have attacked US aircraft carriers after the US forces bombed a popular market in Yemen, killing at least 12 people.
Israeli forces have killed 39 people in Gaza in the past 24 hours, according to Gaza’s health ministry. At least 51,240 Palestinians have been confirmed dead and 116,931 wounded in Israel’s war on Gaza since it began 18 months ago.
The Gaza Government Media Office updated its death toll to more than 61,700, saying thousands of people missing under the rubble are presumed dead. At least 1,139 people were killed in Israel during the Hamas-led October 7, 2023, attacks, and more than 200 were taken captive.
Source: Al Jazeera
Yeah the Arabs "rejected" a 2 state deal way back in 67 and then "went" to war to "claim" the whole land and then "lost" badly after being the aggressor rejecting any peace deals. So you lose wars you start and still want to claim the whole land.. Wow. Guess what. Then the reality sinks in and bites. And now they have to "compromise" . If they dont , then they reap the consequences.
So, am using your own argument. You attack and then lose badly and then cry I'm victimized mentality. And the reality is Hamas has no interest in any peace and no arab country wants to take in the Palestinians inspite of the so called Islamic Ummah. That should say something. And reality is whether you folks like it or not, admit it or not - Israel is going nowhere. Its a democratic established country and is going nowhere. The ball is in Hamas' court. Either negotiate and be sensible or get prepared for the retaliation.
emranabbas
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How is your reply relevant to my post?
I posed you a question which you have not answered.
The answer for your this post is in the question I asked you which your trying to dodge.
sweep_shot
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New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source tells BBC
A senior Palestinian official familiar with Israel-Hamas ceasefire negotiations has told the BBC that Qatari and Egyptian mediators have proposed a new formula to end the war in Gaza.
According to the official, it envisages a truce lasting between five and seven years, the release of all Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, a formal end to the war, and a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
A senior Hamas delegation was due to arrive in Cairo for consultations.
The last ceasefire collapsed a month ago when Israel resumed bombing Gaza, with both sides blaming each other for the failure to keep it going.
Israel has not commented on the mediators' plan.
www.bbc.com
A senior Palestinian official familiar with Israel-Hamas ceasefire negotiations has told the BBC that Qatari and Egyptian mediators have proposed a new formula to end the war in Gaza.
According to the official, it envisages a truce lasting between five and seven years, the release of all Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, a formal end to the war, and a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
A senior Hamas delegation was due to arrive in Cairo for consultations.
The last ceasefire collapsed a month ago when Israel resumed bombing Gaza, with both sides blaming each other for the failure to keep it going.
Israel has not commented on the mediators' plan.
New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source says
Egyptian and Qatari mediators suggest a truce of up to seven years and a permanent end to the war.
www.bbc.com
sweep_shot
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New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source tells BBC
A senior Palestinian official familiar with Israel-Hamas ceasefire negotiations has told the BBC that Qatari and Egyptian mediators have proposed a new formula to end the war in Gaza.
According to the official, it envisages a truce lasting between five and seven years, the release of all Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, a formal end to the war, and a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
A senior Hamas delegation was due to arrive in Cairo for consultations.
The last ceasefire collapsed a month ago when Israel resumed bombing Gaza, with both sides blaming each other for the failure to keep it going.
Israel has not commented on the mediators' plan.
New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source says
Egyptian and Qatari mediators suggest a truce of up to seven years and a permanent end to the war.
Netanyahu doesn't want ceasefire or ending the war I guess. He wants to annex Gaza.
Evil man.
So what is the end goal for Hamas here ? After the withdrawal, will their rocket shelling continue ? Do they want a permanent end or temp truce ? At this stage , Israel will not yield to any concessions unless there are firm guarantees. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map - so what truce do they want ?New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source tells BBC
A senior Palestinian official familiar with Israel-Hamas ceasefire negotiations has told the BBC that Qatari and Egyptian mediators have proposed a new formula to end the war in Gaza.
According to the official, it envisages a truce lasting between five and seven years, the release of all Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, a formal end to the war, and a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
A senior Hamas delegation was due to arrive in Cairo for consultations.
The last ceasefire collapsed a month ago when Israel resumed bombing Gaza, with both sides blaming each other for the failure to keep it going.
Israel has not commented on the mediators' plan.
New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source says
Egyptian and Qatari mediators suggest a truce of up to seven years and a permanent end to the war.
aboveandbeyond
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Whose annexing ones territory?
Whose wiping a whole population out?
Who broke the ceasefire?
Who killed medics and aid workers?
Does your BS and whataboutery has any limits ?
Palestine lost the war period. They rejected a 2 state solution period again. So they are not getting whole of Israel if tats what you are employing. Gaza and WB is what they will get. And WB will be diminished now bcos of the Israeli settlements. If Hamas wants all of Israel, never happening. And then the war continues till they lose everything. If annexing is the issue and a 2 state option is not on the table for Hamas - then thats not good for them. Israel already created a buffer zone in Gaza now to minimise the rocket impact. So you saying annnexing etc etc has no meaning when they rejected 1 2 state solution. And if that is Hamas goal , then they should be prepared to fight till the end .
No one's wiping anyone out. A retaliatory response by Israel in a war. And very unfortunately collateral damage happens if Hamas wants to fight till the last with no compromise.
So your whatabotery has basically no standing no matter how you spin it. You say annexing ?? So Palestine wants "whole" of Israel. Good luck with that. And with that thinking, more misery for Palestinian people because of Hamas's transgressions./
aboveandbeyond
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Your either delusional, a typical ignorant Hindutwa, or probably a bufoon.
Israel Is Accelerating Its Plans for the Complete Annexation of the Palestinian West Bank
Netanyahu's Government is stepping up its plans ahead of the arrival of a sympathetic Trump administration
bylinetimes.com
Hitman
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New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source tells BBC
A senior Palestinian official familiar with Israel-Hamas ceasefire negotiations has told the BBC that Qatari and Egyptian mediators have proposed a new formula to end the war in Gaza.
According to the official, it envisages a truce lasting between five and seven years, the release of all Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, a formal end to the war, and a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
A senior Hamas delegation was due to arrive in Cairo for consultations.
The last ceasefire collapsed a month ago when Israel resumed bombing Gaza, with both sides blaming each other for the failure to keep it going.
Israel has not commented on the mediators' plan.
New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source says
Egyptian and Qatari mediators suggest a truce of up to seven years and a permanent end to the war.
First, commit terrorism and invite a war. Then, when retaliation comes to bite back, shed crocodile tears and start proposing ceasefire to end the war.
I can guarantee Hamas will do another October 7th, 2023 without thinking twice if the ceasefire deal happens. Without thinking twice because one needs brains to realise what reality is. They are responsible for each and every life lost in the war.
I can guarantee Hamas will do another October 7th, 2023 without thinking twice if the ceasefire deal happens. Without thinking twice because one needs brains to realise what reality is. They are responsible for each and every life lost in the war.
aboveandbeyond
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So whose responsible for the 76 years of brutal and illegal occupation and the continued annexation of the Palestinians?
Maybe you are bcos you start resorting to name calling. A keyboard internet warrior.Your either delusional, a typical ignorant Hindutwa, or probably a bufoon.
Israel Is Accelerating Its Plans for the Complete Annexation of the Palestinian West Bank
Netanyahu's Government is stepping up its plans ahead of the arrival of a sympathetic Trump administration
Now the filter is off for Israel. If Hamas doesnt want to listen and if WB and Gaza folks cant live together side by side with Israelis , then Israel has to protect itself. As I said, when you start a war , expect a gloves off response. And no answers to my above post ?? But just post whataboutery river to the sea statements. Echoing Hamas. And so be it then , Hamas will get a reply in the same coin.
aboveandbeyond
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76 years of illegal occupation. Continued Annexation of illegal land, yet we have our classical BS of October 7th.
76 yrs lol! Palestinians started a war in 1961 and lost .. Lost.. So when you lose a war you start you have to compromise. They rejected a 2 state solution and you claim 7y yrs illegal occupation. No wonder there are no takers for stiff like this Hamas propaganda.
Okay. So say it is 76 yrs illegal occupation as you insist. What is the solution that you want? What do Palestinians want as a solution?
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New Israel-Gaza ceasefire plan proposed, Hamas source tells BBC
A senior Palestinian official familiar with Israel-Hamas ceasefire negotiations has told the BBC that Qatari and Egyptian mediators have proposed a new formula to end the war in Gaza.
According to the official, it envisages a truce lasting between five and seven years, the release of all Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, a formal end to the war, and a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
A senior Hamas delegation was due to arrive in Cairo for consultations.
The last ceasefire collapsed a month ago when Israel resumed bombing Gaza, with both sides blaming each other for the failure to keep it going.
Israel has not commented on the mediators' plan.
Meanwhile, at least 26 Palestinians were killed and 60 others injured by Israeli air strikes across the Gaza Strip over the past 24 hours, the territory's Hamas-run health ministry said on Tuesday.
Local residents and eyewitnesses described the air strikes as "extremely intense."
According to witnesses, the attacks destroyed dozens of bulldozers and heavy machinery - equipment used by Hamas-run municipalities to reopen roads, clear rubble, and rescue victims trapped beneath the debris.
In a statement on Tuesday, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said it had struck "approximately 40 engineering vehicles used for terror purposes, including during the October 7th massacre".
"Hamas has used these vehicles for planting explosives, digging underground routes, breaching fences, and clearing rubble to locate weapons and military equipment hidden by the terrorist organisation beneath the rubble," it said.
Tanks have also been seen moving in the southern part of Rafah city in the south of Gaza.
As Israel pushes on with its offensive, talks were due to take place in Cairo with Hamas represented at a senior level by the head of its political council, Mohammed Darwish, and its lead negotiator Khalil al-Hayya.
The meeting comes days after the movement rejected Israel's latest proposal, which included a demand for Hamas to disarm in return for a six-week truce.
On Saturday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would not end the war before Hamas was destroyed and all the hostages returned. Hamas has demanded Israel commit to ending the war before the hostages are freed.
The Palestinian official familiar with the talks told the BBC that Hamas has signalled its readiness to hand over governance of Gaza to any Palestinian entity agreed upon "at the national and regional level". The official said this could be the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority (PA) or a newly formed administrative body.
Netanyahu has ruled out any role for the PA in the future governance of Gaza, which has been ruled by Hamas since 2007.
While it is still too early to assess the likelihood of success, the source described the current mediation effort as serious and said Hamas had shown "unprecedented flexibility".
Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing about 1,200 people - mostly civilians - and taking 251 back to Gaza as hostages. Israel launched a massive military offensive in response, which has killed 51,240 Palestinians - mainly civilians - according to Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry figures on Monday.
Elsewhere, the Palestinian Embassy in Cairo has instructed its staff - who had been co-ordinating medical evacuations from Gaza to Egyptian hospitals and facilitating the entry of humanitarian aid - to relocate with their families to the Egyptian city of Arish, near the Gaza border.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62xnqlj11lo
A senior Palestinian official familiar with Israel-Hamas ceasefire negotiations has told the BBC that Qatari and Egyptian mediators have proposed a new formula to end the war in Gaza.
According to the official, it envisages a truce lasting between five and seven years, the release of all Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, a formal end to the war, and a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
A senior Hamas delegation was due to arrive in Cairo for consultations.
The last ceasefire collapsed a month ago when Israel resumed bombing Gaza, with both sides blaming each other for the failure to keep it going.
Israel has not commented on the mediators' plan.
Meanwhile, at least 26 Palestinians were killed and 60 others injured by Israeli air strikes across the Gaza Strip over the past 24 hours, the territory's Hamas-run health ministry said on Tuesday.
Local residents and eyewitnesses described the air strikes as "extremely intense."
According to witnesses, the attacks destroyed dozens of bulldozers and heavy machinery - equipment used by Hamas-run municipalities to reopen roads, clear rubble, and rescue victims trapped beneath the debris.
In a statement on Tuesday, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said it had struck "approximately 40 engineering vehicles used for terror purposes, including during the October 7th massacre".
"Hamas has used these vehicles for planting explosives, digging underground routes, breaching fences, and clearing rubble to locate weapons and military equipment hidden by the terrorist organisation beneath the rubble," it said.
Tanks have also been seen moving in the southern part of Rafah city in the south of Gaza.
As Israel pushes on with its offensive, talks were due to take place in Cairo with Hamas represented at a senior level by the head of its political council, Mohammed Darwish, and its lead negotiator Khalil al-Hayya.
The meeting comes days after the movement rejected Israel's latest proposal, which included a demand for Hamas to disarm in return for a six-week truce.
On Saturday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would not end the war before Hamas was destroyed and all the hostages returned. Hamas has demanded Israel commit to ending the war before the hostages are freed.
The Palestinian official familiar with the talks told the BBC that Hamas has signalled its readiness to hand over governance of Gaza to any Palestinian entity agreed upon "at the national and regional level". The official said this could be the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority (PA) or a newly formed administrative body.
Netanyahu has ruled out any role for the PA in the future governance of Gaza, which has been ruled by Hamas since 2007.
While it is still too early to assess the likelihood of success, the source described the current mediation effort as serious and said Hamas had shown "unprecedented flexibility".
Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing about 1,200 people - mostly civilians - and taking 251 back to Gaza as hostages. Israel launched a massive military offensive in response, which has killed 51,240 Palestinians - mainly civilians - according to Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry figures on Monday.
Elsewhere, the Palestinian Embassy in Cairo has instructed its staff - who had been co-ordinating medical evacuations from Gaza to Egyptian hospitals and facilitating the entry of humanitarian aid - to relocate with their families to the Egyptian city of Arish, near the Gaza border.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62xnqlj11lo
aboveandbeyond
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Can you not take your zionest Blinkers off and wake up in the reality world and see.
What is the Greater Israel project about?
IMMY69
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Greater Israel Project?
From the rivers to the sea...
Oh and to some of our resident Hindutva Fans, yes it was a Zionist term
There was no war between Israelis and Palestinians in 1961.
Not having a go but it does help learning the basic facts before arguing the toss with people about an issue.
If you meant 1967 by the way - you'd still be wrong because the Palestinians didn't participate in the war. It was between Israel and Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Think I explained this 6 months ago but you still repeat this as fact.
Ehud Barak, the Israeli PM at the time, had no Knesset majority - he lost it during the Camp David summit !
You can promise the world when you've no mandate to deliver it. So these are just narratives repeated by people who don't have any inclination to look into issues with any depth.
How about an account from somebody who was actually in the room at Camp David, and served under both Republican and Democratic Presidents:
Lost in the Woods: A Camp David Retrospective
Twenty years after Camp David, a one-time negotiator reflects on what was achieved at the historic presidential summit.
Suleiman
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May Allah SWT help our brothers in Palestine. The hypocritical barbarians who hate on the Palestinians but then know what it’s like when something happens close to their own home need to take a long look in the mirror. The brainwashing is staggering for them.
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Gaza health ministry denies manipulating death toll figures
At al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, Alam Hirzallah resigns himself to a grim task: registering the deaths of the wife and two children of his grieving cousin.
His family brought the bodies here on an electric rickshaw or tuk-tuk. They found them in their house in eastern Gaza City after Israeli shelling hit the family home. Asma Hirzallah, Mayar, 5, and Abdullah, 3, were killed.
"The hospital asked for their full names and ID numbers," explains Alam, referring to the numbers all Palestinians are given in a population registry administered by Israel.
"They gave us a paper to confirm they were martyred and told us to come back for the death certificate. Now we don't know where to go to bury them as the cemeteries are in areas under Israeli control."
At least 51,266 people have been killed in the 18 months since the Gaza war began, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health, with nearly a third of the dead aged under 18.
Israel has repeatedly challenged the accuracy of the Palestinian fatalities list - in terms of overall numbers, and in particular, the demographic breakdown - claiming it is used as Hamas propaganda. The figures are cited with attribution, by UN agencies and widely in the media.
The list does not distinguish between civilians and members of Palestinian armed groups who are killed in the war, and Israel has accused Hamas of inflating the percentages of women and children.
Recently, several media reports have raised questions about the reliability of the statistics by highlighting anomalies between the August and October 2024 and March 2025 lists of fatalities. The reports focus on how some 3,000 names of people originally identified as fatalities were removed from later revised lists.
A Gazan health official, Zaher al-Wahidi, denied to the BBC that victims had vanished or that there was a lack of transparency, insisting: "The health ministry works towards having accurate data with high credibility.
"In every list that gets shared, there is a greater verification and revision of the list. We cannot say that the health ministry removes names. It's not a removal process, rather it is a revision and verification process."
Verifying data
So how are the statistics gathered and how accurate are they?
Until the first months of this war, the number of people killed in Gaza was calculated from counting bodies that arrived in hospitals - like those of Asma Hirzallah and her children.
Medics could log data for all deaths into a centralised computer system, which was based at a Ministry of Health office at al-Shifa hospital, with a back-up at al-Rantissi hospital.
However, as conditions became more chaotic and medical sites repeatedly came under attack, this method became less reliable. During the war, Israel says it has targeted hospitals – which have protected status under international law – because Hamas has used them to hide its fighters and infrastructure – something the armed group denies.
From the start of 2024, Gazan health officials introduced online forms which relatives could use to report their loved ones dead or missing.
According to Mr Wahidi, the head of statistics at the health ministry, most of the names which were recently removed from the official list as part of a new checking process had originally been submitted using these forms. He says that names which are taken off may later be added back
"A judicial committee was set up and it looks into all of the cases received," Mr Wahidi says. "To ensure credibility we verify the data so that it will be accurate."
During investigations by the judicial committee, some people were found to have died of natural causes – not directly because of the war. When Gazans die from lack of medical treatment, malnutrition or hyperthermia, Mr Wahidi clarifies "these cases are indirect and do not get added to the lists."
Other individuals were wrongly listed as dead but then found to have been among thousands of Gazans imprisoned by Israel.
Mr Wahidi confirms that in August and then October, a total of more than 3,000 names were removed from the list, saying this was a precautionary measure pending full checks.
For some pro-Israel groups, such as media watchdog HonestReporting, this was strong indication of "deliberate manipulation, not honest error".
There had been a widespread presumption that only checked names were included on the online lists published.
"It seems like they're actually updating the lists more in real time, as more information appears," says Professor Mike Spagat of Royal Holloway College, chair of Every Casualty Counts, an independent civilian casualty monitoring organisation. "We should have regarded the previous lists as a little bit more provisional than I had assumed."
However, he says he detects no attempt by health officials to mislead and sees the changes as "a big clean-up operation".
He points out that the latest modifications to the list led to a small increase in the percentage of adult males among those killed, countering the idea that the original inclusion of the 3,000-plus names was done in an attempt to exaggerate the proportion of women and children.
Bodies under rubble
The Gaza health ministry says it has also recently audited data in its official fatalities list from hospital mortuaries for errors and omissions.
When deaths were registered by friends or neighbours, it says, they often did not know the ID numbers of those killed or their full names - which include the father and grandfather's names. In some cases, this resulted in the wrong people being marked as dead.
Thousands of bodies that are still under the rubble left by Israeli air strikes, as well as about 900 which are unidentified, are not currently included in the health ministry list, the ministry says.
However, the recent two-month ceasefire - which allowed hundreds of thousands of displaced Gazans to return to what was left of their homes - saw nearly 800 corpses being retrieved, identified and registered.
In late January, the BBC filmed workers from the Hamas-run Civil Defence agency as they set about retrieving human remains which had been left for months in Wadi Gaza - also known as the Netzarim Corridor – after a pullout by Israeli forces.
With no DNA testing available in Gaza, each corpse was given a serial number. Long forms were filled in to log the bones and clothing collected to try to identify the dead.
"We look for distinctive personal belongings: a watch, a necklace or an earring. When we search the bodies, it's very possible that we'll find a driver's licence or ID card," said Sameh Khalifa, who led the team.
"Even a broken tooth can be a distinguishing mark that will help a family recognise a missing loved one."
Combatant death tolls
Since the resumption of Israel's military offensive in Gaza on 18 March, the numbers killed have risen daily.
Israel periodically estimates the number of Palestinian fighters killed. At the start of this year, it assessed that 20,000 members of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad were among the dead. In mid-April it said there had been "more than 100 targeted eliminations" in the past month.
Israel does not provide its figures for civilian deaths in Gaza and has not officially challenged any of the names on the local health ministry casualty list.
The war began on 7 October 2023, when Hamas led a cross-border attack on southern Israel, killing about 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and taking some 250 people into captivity in Gaza. Since then, the Israeli military says that 408 of its soldiers have been killed in combat.
International journalists, including the BBC, are blocked by Israel from entering Gaza independently, so are unable to verify figures from either side.
We rely heavily on local Palestinian journalists working with us to access information about deadly attacks - interviewing witnesses as well as visiting bomb sites and hospital mortuaries to film footage, which is shared with us.
Overall, the numbers killed in the past year and a half dwarf those from previous rounds of fighting in the decades-old Israel-Palestinian conflict and yet, for the moment, there is no end in sight to the war.
BBC
At al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, Alam Hirzallah resigns himself to a grim task: registering the deaths of the wife and two children of his grieving cousin.
His family brought the bodies here on an electric rickshaw or tuk-tuk. They found them in their house in eastern Gaza City after Israeli shelling hit the family home. Asma Hirzallah, Mayar, 5, and Abdullah, 3, were killed.
"The hospital asked for their full names and ID numbers," explains Alam, referring to the numbers all Palestinians are given in a population registry administered by Israel.
"They gave us a paper to confirm they were martyred and told us to come back for the death certificate. Now we don't know where to go to bury them as the cemeteries are in areas under Israeli control."
At least 51,266 people have been killed in the 18 months since the Gaza war began, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health, with nearly a third of the dead aged under 18.
Israel has repeatedly challenged the accuracy of the Palestinian fatalities list - in terms of overall numbers, and in particular, the demographic breakdown - claiming it is used as Hamas propaganda. The figures are cited with attribution, by UN agencies and widely in the media.
The list does not distinguish between civilians and members of Palestinian armed groups who are killed in the war, and Israel has accused Hamas of inflating the percentages of women and children.
Recently, several media reports have raised questions about the reliability of the statistics by highlighting anomalies between the August and October 2024 and March 2025 lists of fatalities. The reports focus on how some 3,000 names of people originally identified as fatalities were removed from later revised lists.
A Gazan health official, Zaher al-Wahidi, denied to the BBC that victims had vanished or that there was a lack of transparency, insisting: "The health ministry works towards having accurate data with high credibility.
"In every list that gets shared, there is a greater verification and revision of the list. We cannot say that the health ministry removes names. It's not a removal process, rather it is a revision and verification process."
Verifying data
So how are the statistics gathered and how accurate are they?
Until the first months of this war, the number of people killed in Gaza was calculated from counting bodies that arrived in hospitals - like those of Asma Hirzallah and her children.
Medics could log data for all deaths into a centralised computer system, which was based at a Ministry of Health office at al-Shifa hospital, with a back-up at al-Rantissi hospital.
However, as conditions became more chaotic and medical sites repeatedly came under attack, this method became less reliable. During the war, Israel says it has targeted hospitals – which have protected status under international law – because Hamas has used them to hide its fighters and infrastructure – something the armed group denies.
From the start of 2024, Gazan health officials introduced online forms which relatives could use to report their loved ones dead or missing.
According to Mr Wahidi, the head of statistics at the health ministry, most of the names which were recently removed from the official list as part of a new checking process had originally been submitted using these forms. He says that names which are taken off may later be added back
"A judicial committee was set up and it looks into all of the cases received," Mr Wahidi says. "To ensure credibility we verify the data so that it will be accurate."
During investigations by the judicial committee, some people were found to have died of natural causes – not directly because of the war. When Gazans die from lack of medical treatment, malnutrition or hyperthermia, Mr Wahidi clarifies "these cases are indirect and do not get added to the lists."
Other individuals were wrongly listed as dead but then found to have been among thousands of Gazans imprisoned by Israel.
Mr Wahidi confirms that in August and then October, a total of more than 3,000 names were removed from the list, saying this was a precautionary measure pending full checks.
For some pro-Israel groups, such as media watchdog HonestReporting, this was strong indication of "deliberate manipulation, not honest error".
There had been a widespread presumption that only checked names were included on the online lists published.
"It seems like they're actually updating the lists more in real time, as more information appears," says Professor Mike Spagat of Royal Holloway College, chair of Every Casualty Counts, an independent civilian casualty monitoring organisation. "We should have regarded the previous lists as a little bit more provisional than I had assumed."
However, he says he detects no attempt by health officials to mislead and sees the changes as "a big clean-up operation".
He points out that the latest modifications to the list led to a small increase in the percentage of adult males among those killed, countering the idea that the original inclusion of the 3,000-plus names was done in an attempt to exaggerate the proportion of women and children.
Bodies under rubble
The Gaza health ministry says it has also recently audited data in its official fatalities list from hospital mortuaries for errors and omissions.
When deaths were registered by friends or neighbours, it says, they often did not know the ID numbers of those killed or their full names - which include the father and grandfather's names. In some cases, this resulted in the wrong people being marked as dead.
Thousands of bodies that are still under the rubble left by Israeli air strikes, as well as about 900 which are unidentified, are not currently included in the health ministry list, the ministry says.
However, the recent two-month ceasefire - which allowed hundreds of thousands of displaced Gazans to return to what was left of their homes - saw nearly 800 corpses being retrieved, identified and registered.
In late January, the BBC filmed workers from the Hamas-run Civil Defence agency as they set about retrieving human remains which had been left for months in Wadi Gaza - also known as the Netzarim Corridor – after a pullout by Israeli forces.
With no DNA testing available in Gaza, each corpse was given a serial number. Long forms were filled in to log the bones and clothing collected to try to identify the dead.
"We look for distinctive personal belongings: a watch, a necklace or an earring. When we search the bodies, it's very possible that we'll find a driver's licence or ID card," said Sameh Khalifa, who led the team.
"Even a broken tooth can be a distinguishing mark that will help a family recognise a missing loved one."
Combatant death tolls
Since the resumption of Israel's military offensive in Gaza on 18 March, the numbers killed have risen daily.
Israel periodically estimates the number of Palestinian fighters killed. At the start of this year, it assessed that 20,000 members of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad were among the dead. In mid-April it said there had been "more than 100 targeted eliminations" in the past month.
Israel does not provide its figures for civilian deaths in Gaza and has not officially challenged any of the names on the local health ministry casualty list.
The war began on 7 October 2023, when Hamas led a cross-border attack on southern Israel, killing about 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and taking some 250 people into captivity in Gaza. Since then, the Israeli military says that 408 of its soldiers have been killed in combat.
International journalists, including the BBC, are blocked by Israel from entering Gaza independently, so are unable to verify figures from either side.
We rely heavily on local Palestinian journalists working with us to access information about deadly attacks - interviewing witnesses as well as visiting bomb sites and hospital mortuaries to film footage, which is shared with us.
Overall, the numbers killed in the past year and a half dwarf those from previous rounds of fighting in the decades-old Israel-Palestinian conflict and yet, for the moment, there is no end in sight to the war.
BBC
Farhan The Man
Tape Ball Star
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Runs
- 751
Why don't you do it yourself?
What is stopping you?
Comforts of this life perhaps. In a western neighborhood.
