"It's a sub-continent mind set to chase centuries and personal records" : Ramiz Raja

[TalhaSyed]

Ramiza Raja was fuming on BBC Radio during the 4th ODI between Pakistan & England.

Speaking about the Pakistani batsmen not kicking on despite (theoretically) having 9 wickets in hand and the score crossing 200, Ramiz blasted the likes of Babar for playing for his century. He went on to say this is a common mindset amongst Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi batsmen.

A telling stat was in the last 6 ODIs which have been completed by Pakistan a batsman has scored 100 but Pakistan has lost all 6.

Is this sort of selfish batting really hurting our chances?

Is the solution simply getting players to play for the team, rather than themselves, or are the players simply not able to bat at a higher SR?

 

[CricketDon]

Very typical however India has left this attitude in the past.

It’s the likes of Pakistan who still do this.

Only reason why babar and imam average so high is because they minnow bash and score slow and selfish runs against the top sides

 

[octavian]

I don't know about this being a sub-continent thing because Indian batsman play pretty quickly.

But Babar's effort was very tendulkar-esque . A century that might prove to be a fruitless one in the context of the match.

 

[waleed88]

Ramiza Raja was fuming on BBC Radio during the 4th ODI between Pakistan & England.

Speaking about the Pakistani batsmen not kicking on despite (theoretically) having 9 wickets in hand and the score crossing 200, Ramiz blasted the likes of Babar for playing for his century. He went on to say this is a common mindset amongst Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi batsmen.

A telling stat was in the last 6 ODIs which have been completed by Pakistan a batsman has scored 100 but Pakistan has lost all 6.

Is this sort of selfish batting really hurting our chances?

Is the solution simply getting players to play for the team, rather than themselves, or are the players simply not able to bat at a higher SR?

If anyone doesn't know we are talking about Haris Sohail, Mohammad Rizwan, Mohammad Rizwan, Haris Sohail, Abid Ali, Imam ul Haq, Fakhar Zaman and now Babar Azam

 

[hadi123]

Babar Azam clearly slowed down today to get his century whereas in the last game Imam accelerated towards the milestone

 

[ali7204]

well coming from Ramiz's mouth is bit rich when you remembered his waving of a bat after completing the most useless and selfish innings in the WC opener but yes, Babar innings was slow in a modern day cricket and on this patta pitch.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...s-4th-match-benson-&-hedges-world-cup-1991-92

 

[shah_1]

Its a disease

Such players need to be dropped for a match or so to teach current and future batsmen a lesson

 

[Savak]

To be honest, players are very insecure about their spots in the team. It will take a while to get rid of this problem.

 

[sshakir411]

Pioneered by the great sunny and then sachin. There’s nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t kill the momentum team hs built up. I think Babar’s innings today was fine.

 

[shah_1]

Pioneered by the great sunny and then sachin. There’s nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t kill the momentum team hs built up. I think Babar’s innings today was fine.

He scored 16 runs in 23 balls after scoring 81 runs. He didn't kill any momenutum.

SR of 65 is fine

 

[Khwaja78]

Ramiz Raja should look in the mirror. He has been pathetic cheerleader for selfish azam, and even here he is trying to generalize. Fakhar Zaman, Asif even Faheem all play shots for team total while Babar Azam, Shoaib Malik and Imam play for themselves even compromising the team.

 

[Farhan93]

To be honest, players are very insecure about their spots in the team. It will take a while to get rid of this problem.

babar is insecure too? I don't remember him getting dropped from the side even once despite four years of selfish cricket? it's considered blasphemy if you criticize his selfish knocks in Pakistan cricket circle or in the media then why is he insecure? he will stay in the side forever even if he plays with a strike rate of 60 such is the backing he gets... then why insecurity?

 

[Zhasan]

More like Indian mindset, certainly not Pakistani mindset.

 

[Muddaser]

Rich coming from Ramiz.

Still remember his 160 ball 100 against West Indies in the 1992 WC.

We finished at 220/2 from 50 overs.

Windies chased it without losing a wicket.

I know cricket has changed but even then that was pathetic.

 

[waleed88]

To be honest, players are very insecure about their spots in the team. It will take a while to get rid of this problem.

Yes, Babar has been in the team for almost 4 years now. This insecurity seems to be eternal.

 

[Savak]

Ramiz Raja should look in the mirror. He has been pathetic cheerleader for selfish azam, and even here he is trying to generalize. Fakhar Zaman, Asif even Faheem all play shots for team total while Babar Azam, Shoaib Malik and Imam play for themselves even compromising the team.

Well look at the case of Faheem Ashraf, always coming in at the death when he has to hit out from ball one for the team and he is out of the team now because people are frustrated with his lack of runs.

 

[Saj]

He's sat next to me now in the press box saying the same thing.

Saying too many players playing for themselves and their place in the team.

 

[Khwaja78]

He's sat next to me now in the press box saying the same thing.

Saying too many players playing for themselves and their place in the team.

Tell him he has contributed to selfish Azam's hype and it is shameful to generalize the whole team while he tries to shield his favorites by not naming him or Malik.

 

[Farhan93]

He's sat next to me now in the press box saying the same thing.

Saying too many players playing for themselves and their place in the team.

Lol. he is the one who always have backed babar blindly,instead of doing positive criticism on babar's so many selfish knocks he always covered all up by saying 'he's our best bat' and even now he can't cirticize him by naming him. He should be ashamed of himself this raja guy

 

[Deewana Mastana]

He's sat next to me now in the press box saying the same thing.

Saying too many players playing for themselves and their place in the team.

Tell him it is not new, has been happening for decades.

 

[coy0607]

Selfish player

 

[Savak]

Who can forget Ramiz Raja's legendary century in Pakistan's opening game vs the WI in the 1992 WC. The epitome of Selfishness.

 

[Cric1234]

It was always going to happen Fakhar apart team is full of selfish players who care less about the match situation but personal milestones and averages.

 

[W63L35]

O boy..... we are bashing 100s with the S/R of 102 .... and not too long ago, we were in love head over heels with 50s scored at S/R in 60s and 70s!

How time flies and we change!

 

[topspin]

If anyone doesn't know we are talking about Haris Sohail, Mohammad Rizwan, Mohammad Rizwan, Haris Sohail, Abid Ali, Imam ul Haq, Fakhar Zaman and now Babar Azam

Fakhar has never batted for his milestones. By the far the most selfless batsman in the side.

 

[waleed88]

Fakhar has never batted for his milestones. By the far the most selfless batsman in the side.

I know but I'm just listing the centurions.

A certain poster was adamant Rizwan's centuries helped the side. He was there till the last over and we still didn't reach 277.

 

[Major]

As long as the team gets 300, i dont care if one is selfish or not.

 

[Liverpool_Faizan]

There is a reason Pakistan and Bangla players do it.

It's simply that if they don't put runs on the board they don't get to play for the international team and there is no money to be made in any other form of Pakistani cricket.

They need to be incentivized to play fearless cricket. Many of them are too scared to lose their spot.

 

[Savak]

Afridi never batted for milestones . No one ever gave credit for it

 

[Zaz]

I dont like to agree with ramiz a lot but hes spot on here

When u know the team needs a bare min of 375 just to stay in the game why would u be happy going along at 6 an over

 

[PennOne]

He scored 16 runs in 23 balls after scoring 81 runs. He didn't kill any momenutum.

SR of 65 is fine

Sr 65 is fine ... what year is this

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It might be better for Pakistan to lose this game, if they win it will just encourage more selfish batting for the next four years.

 

[Indiafan]

Pioneered by the great sunny and then sachin. There’s nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t kill the momentum team hs built up. I think Babar’s innings today was fine.

Sachin had one of the faster 80 to 100 and 90 to 100 conversions in his prime. It was only when he was struggling in his last few years people started making stuff up. He was obviously slow in one or two matches like his 100th 100 but most time he would breeze through

 

[KyoOne]

Ramiz did name Babar in Sony's mid ininngs programme, also cited a stat that since 2015 this is the slowest century at Trent Bridge. Looked dejected.

He's spot on with the criticism. Not a ground where you take over 100 deliveries to cross the landmark.

 

[Mean&Green]

It is due to insecurity honestly Pakistan is the type team ud get dropped from if you score 99 every game but not a 100

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No one should even mention Babar in the same breath as Tendulkar, I am a fan of Azam, but I'm pretty sure Tendulkar could hit the ball out of the ground if he needed to.

 

[topspin]

As long as the team gets 300, i dont care if one is selfish or not.

It's 2019 not 2009. Get with the times. But I should let you off because you're obviously still intoxicated from Misbah's 70-75 SR knocks.

 

[urnotserious]

More like Indian mindset, certainly not Pakistani mindset.

If it was a Pakistani mindset they would be scoring more centuries....they aren't. Lulz.

 

[OmaIR1]

Indians are way ahead of Pakistan when it comes to this mindset.

Pakistanis are VERY guilty of the type of behaviour Rameez describes.

 

[goran]

It's 2019 not 2009. Get with the times. But I should let you off because you're obviously still intoxicated from Misbah's 70-75 SR knocks.

Lol, it may not be relevant to this thread but the par score during Misbah's era was 200-220. So yes, we have come a long way.

 

[sshakir411]

He scored 16 runs in 23 balls after scoring 81 runs. He didn't kill any momenutum.

SR of 65 is fine

So what is the ideal strike rate for 23 balls coach? Give us the magical number...

 

[Sachin136]

I don't know about this being a sub-continent thing because Indian batsman play pretty quickly.

But Babar's effort was very tendulkar-esque . A century that might prove to be a fruitless one in the context of the match.

Can you name some centuries like that by Sachin, apart from the one against Bangladesh? He has 49 of them, so surely you can name at least 10.

If you can't, then I suggest you stop peddling this myth about one of the greatest match winners the sport has ever seen.

 

[Hitman]

Can you name some centuries like that by Sachin, apart from the one against Bangladesh? He has 49 of them, so surely you can name at least 10.

If you can't, then I suggest you stop peddling this myth about one of the greatest match winners the sport has ever seen.

I’ve asked the same question in the past. You asked to name 10, I have asked such fans to name just 5. They can’t. An SR of 87 back then, which was bettered only by a few proper batsmen like Jayasuriya and Gilchrist.

 

[Hasan123]

Sometimes we can confuse lack of ability with selfishness. Babar had acceleration issues but at times it's difficult to say if its a lack of ability or due to selfishness.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indians are way ahead of Pakistan when it comes to this mindset.

Pakistanis are VERY guilty of the type of behaviour Rameez describes.

I wouldn't say Indians are ahead. We are just much further behind.

 

[Farhan93]

Sometimes we can confuse lack of ability with selfishness. Babar had acceleration issues but at times it's difficult to say if its a lack of ability or due to selfishness.

He's selfish too. playing 3-4 dots on trot 3 to 4 times in 100 ball innings shows he is selfish , atleast strike rotation isn't the most difficult task in cricket he should be able to do it...he is selfish as well as lacks ability to become a great. period

 

[OmaIR1]

I wouldn't say Indians are ahead. We are just much further behind.

Haha, same difference, I guess!

 

[Hasan123]

He's selfish too. playing 3-4 dots on trot 3 to 4 times in 100 ball innings shows he is selfish , atleast strike rotation isn't the most difficult task in cricket he should be able to do it...he is selfish as well as lacks ability to become a great. period

Strike rotation is not easy to learn. But it's something Babar should have picked up by now.

 

[shah_1]

So what is the ideal strike rate for 23 balls coach? Give us the magical number...

He was scoring over 100 SR befoe this so when the par score is 370 380 then you don't deliberately slow down for your hundred. You don't need to be a coach for this. The culture of slowing down to score a milestone is prevalent, just watch Haris's first hundred.

Even Maxwell after the series said that I don't care about personal milestone was clearly pointing towards Pakistani batsmen

 

[Saj]

O boy..... we are bashing 100s with the S/R of 102 .... and not too long ago, we were in love head over heels with 50s scored at S/R in 60s and 70s!

How time flies and we change!

Depends on the match situation really.

If you are 50 for 5, then that 50 at a sr of 70 is a life-saver.

When you are 200/1 on a flat deck, then really your run-rate should be more than 100.

 

[Farhan93]

Strike rotation is not easy to learn. But it's something Babar should have picked up by now.

He hasn't learned that in 4 years , he is always gonna struggle with that especially when he's gonna see he has so much blind backing that will come to his recuse whenever he will let the team down again

 

[W63L35]

Depends on the match situation really.

If you are 50 for 5, then that 50 at a sr of 70 is a life-saver.

When you are 200/1 on a flat deck, then really your run-rate should be more than 100.

A tale of another 2 100s from last year.....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/.../england-vs-australia-4th-odi-aus-in-eng-2018

Australia in similar position... 225/1 .... two 100s at S/R of less than Babar. How many Australian fans or media might have criticized Finch and Marsh for slow scoring?


View attachment 91401


Nasir Hussain said this at the innings break today.....

"If anybody had asked Micky and the fans before the start of the series, would you take scores of 361, 358 and 340 in first 3 ODIs, everybody would have gladly said yes!

If Pakistan keep batting the way Pakistan has batted in these 3 ODIs, it will help them win the World Cup. But if they bowling like they have, it won't".

That summarizes the first 3 ODIs in a nutshell.

Point is .... batsmen have done their job. Bowler are failing us.
Then credit must be given to the England (#1 ranked team) and the batsmen who have twice scored 440 and 480 in an innings in recent past.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

A tale of another 2 100s from last year.....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/.../england-vs-australia-4th-odi-aus-in-eng-2018

Australia in similar position... 225/1 .... two 100s at S/R of less than Babar. How many Australian fans or media might have criticized Finch and Marsh for slow scoring?


View attachment 91401


Nasir Hussain said this at the innings break today.....

"If anybody had asked Micky and the fans before the start of the series, would you take scores of 361, 358 and 340 in first 3 ODIs, everybody would have gladly said yes!

If Pakistan keep batting the way Pakistan has batted in these 3 ODIs, it will help them win the World Cup. But if they bowling like they have, it won't".

That summarizes the first 3 ODIs in a nutshell.

Point is .... batsmen have done their job. Bowler are failing us.
Then credit must be given to the England (#1 ranked team) and the batsmen who have twice scored 440 and 480 in an innings in recent past.

And fielding!

 

[QalandarFan]

Surprised to see even Ramiz openly criticizing Babar, and rightfully so, had he not slown down we would of ended up winning the match.

 

[Shafi]

What a rubbish!!!! Yesterday Sarkar of Bangladesh himself didn’t go for 100 which can easily achievable. Apart from Pakistan not even Afghanistan batsmen do that. I think selfishness is our players national decease.

 

[IamIndian]

More like Indian mindset, certainly not Pakistani mindset.

Rohit, Dhawan, Rahul, Kohli, Dhoni etc score @150+ strike rate once they near century.

 

[Stewie]

You guys think he doesn’t know the world is poed at him? I think he won’t repeat this again. If he does there is a serious chance people will form a negative opinion of him that will stick with him for rest of his career.. like Tuk tuk Misbah.. we all know Misbah wasn’t a slow accumulator and could gun it when he wanted but he will always be remembered as tuk tuk by many.

 

[Savak]

Batsmen have done pretty well and punched above their weight.

The bowlers need some tough love

 

[Mehndi155]

Take a example of haris
He scored 41 in last game if he had score 60 or 70 he wouldn't have been dropped so players get selfish thats why!!

 

[Mehndi155]

Even hafeez slowed down

 

[Sunny_majoka]

batsman have played above of their weight its bowling which is our strongest suit which needs to improve as soon as possible.

 

[Saj]

Tell him he has contributed to selfish Azam's hype and it is shameful to generalize the whole team while he tries to shield his favorites by not naming him or Malik.

He was very critical of Babar too.

I gave him the 10 overs no boundary stat and he was fuming.

 

[Saj]

Nasir Hussain said this at the innings break today.....

"If anybody had asked Micky and the fans before the start of the series, would you take scores of 361, 358 and 340 in first 3 ODIs, everybody would have gladly said yes!

But that was before anyone saw the pitches and the boundary sizes.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

But that was before anyone saw the pitches and the boundary sizes.

Lets be honest had we fielded even half decent in these last 2 games the score wouldnt matter

 

[Green Patriot]

I heard his post match comments on his channel and man was he fuming.He has always been Babar's biggest fan but yesterday he was spitting fire against him. Ramiz is definitely not happy with Babar's knock.

 

[Mamoon]

It is also a subcontinent mindset to handout certificates of "selfishness". Only in Pakistan and to an extent in India will you see people label players selfish at the drop of a hat. I have hardly seen English, Australian, South African, New Zealand etc. fans abuse this word like we do.

Apparently, any batsman in Pakistan who doesn't swing blindly and doesn't bat at a SR of 120+ is supposedly selfish and playing for himself. Our fans need to overcome this mindset and understand the game a bit more.

Players like Babar, Imam etc. cannot maintain high averages and be productive if they bat like Roy. It will come off every now and then, but they cannot consistently blaze their way to 100 runs in 70 or 80 balls. Roy can afford to take risks and compromise his average for high SR, but that is his role - England have a very deep lineup, the deepest in the world and they only need on anchor (Root).

If Root plays for Pakistan, it won't be long for our fans to call him selfish, but you don't see England fans calling him that. That is because they understand the game and they know that he is the glue that holds the batting together - his 50 average at a SR of 85-90 allows Roy, Bairstow, Buttler, Stokes, Moeen etc. to go after the bowling from the get-go.

Pakistan's batting lineup is not deep, and Babar and Imam throwing their wickets away so that our fans stop calling them selfish will not help the team one bit. You get our top 3 cheaply and perhaps Haris as well, and we have no chance of scoring 350.

England score 340+ yesterday without Bairstow and Morgan, while Buttler and Moeen failed. That is the batting depth that they have. Their number 10 averages 32 in First-Class.

Pakistan's main issue is the lack of power-hitters down the order. The absence of power-hitting is the reason why we are not capitalising on the consistency of Imam and Babar, and these two should not be tasked with compromising their consistency to compensate for the lack of big hitting in the death overs.

Before someone mentions Umar Akmal, yes he can strike the ball better than Sarfaraz (who can't?), Malik etc., but you also need batting intelligence to complement your power-hitting. Does any Umar Akmal advocate thing that he can play the type of innings Stokes played yesterday?

England needed 80 in 54 balls and he was the last main batsman at the crease. He didn't throw his wicket away to a reckless shot, analysed the situation and targeted bowlers selectively. In this situation, Umar Akmal would fail 99 out of 100 times.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Catches win Matches-Tony Grieg

 

[Yezir]

More like Indian mindset, certainly not Pakistani mindset.

lol look who is talking. India is number 2 for a reason. We dnt play for personal records unlike your tuccha players who keep their selfish mindset before the country.

 

[NauV]

It is also a subcontinent mindset to handout certificates of "selfishness". Only in Pakistan and to an extent in India will you see people label players selfish at the drop of a hat. I have hardly seen English, Australian, South African, New Zealand etc. fans abuse this word like we do.

Apparently, any batsman in Pakistan who doesn't swing blindly and doesn't bat at a SR of 120+ is supposedly selfish and playing for himself. Our fans need to overcome this mindset and understand the game a bit more.

Players like Babar, Imam etc. cannot maintain high averages and be productive if they bat like Roy. It will come off every now and then, but they cannot consistently blaze their way to 100 runs in 70 or 80 balls. Roy can afford to take risks and compromise his average for high SR, but that is his role - England have a very deep lineup, the deepest in the world and they only need on anchor (Root).

If Root plays for Pakistan, it won't be long for our fans to call him selfish, but you don't see England fans calling him that. That is because they understand the game and they know that he is the glue that holds the batting together - his 50 average at a SR of 85-90 allows Roy, Bairstow, Buttler, Stokes, Moeen etc. to go after the bowling from the get-go.

Pakistan's batting lineup is not deep, and Babar and Imam throwing their wickets away so that our fans stop calling them selfish will not help the team one bit. You get our top 3 cheaply and perhaps Haris as well, and we have no chance of scoring 350.

England score 340+ yesterday without Bairstow and Morgan, while Buttler and Moeen failed. That is the batting depth that they have. Their number 10 averages 32 in First-Class.

Pakistan's main issue is the lack of power-hitters down the order. The absence of power-hitting is the reason why we are not capitalising on the consistency of Imam and Babar, and these two should not be tasked with compromising their consistency to compensate for the lack of big hitting in the death overs.

Before someone mentions Umar Akmal, yes he can strike the ball better than Sarfaraz (who can't?), Malik etc., but you also need batting intelligence to complement your power-hitting. Does any Umar Akmal advocate thing that he can play the type of innings Stokes played yesterday?

England needed 80 in 54 balls and he was the last main batsman at the crease. He didn't throw his wicket away to a reckless shot, analysed the situation and targeted bowlers selectively. In this situation, Umar Akmal would fail 99 out of 100 times.

Well said . .

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

Very typical however India has left this attitude in the past.

It’s the likes of Pakistan who still do this.

Only reason why babar and imam average so high is because they minnow bash and score slow and selfish runs against the top sides

if babar plays quicker and gets out the team will collapse. Babar is the anchor the rest around him should play hard.

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

O boy..... we are bashing 100s with the S/R of 102 .... and not too long ago, we were in love head over heels with 50s scored at S/R in 60s and 70s!

How time flies and we change!

exactly, its utter stupidity. Babar is the anchor rest of the hitters should play around him.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

If stokes and Curran can get away with it then y not Babar

 

[PakPremi]

If stokes and Curran can get away with it then y not Babar

Add Root to that list.
I happened to be listening to Ramiz comment on BBC radio commentary as I was driving at that time. And his fellow commentators commented that it not just Asian batsmen who do that others do so as well.
And it is fair enough. mMchal Vaughn said that Babar like Roots has a set role to anchor the inning and try to bat throught the inning, so there was nothing wrong with his approach.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Add Root to that list.
I happened to be listening to Ramiz comment on BBC radio commentary as I was driving at that time. And his fellow commentators commented that it not just Asian batsmen who do that others do so as well.
And it is fair enough. mMchal Vaughn said that Babar like Roots has a set role to anchor the inning and try to bat throught the inning, so there was nothing wrong with his approach.

Joe has been through the mill already with critics and detractors and has also not been recognised for the big icc awards

 

[Technics 1210]

Can you name some centuries like that by Sachin, apart from the one against Bangladesh? He has 49 of them, so surely you can name at least 10.

If you can't, then I suggest you stop peddling this myth about one of the greatest match winners the sport has ever seen.

Read the OP carefully, it's about scoring centuries in a match lost.

Tendulkar has 14 of them in ODIs.

 

[W63L35]

But that was before anyone saw the pitches and the boundary sizes.

Well, then it was Micky's fault to be totally uninformed about the itinerary of the tour. If the analyst traveling with the team did not know or did not tell Micky, then it is his fault. He should be fired!

 

[someone21]

The issue is a hundred is not 2 fifties. You ought to up the game, tempo after the 1st 50. Any batsman who scores his 2nd fifty is similar balls as 1st, is a selfish plAyer these days

 

[Rifaqat]

I do not believe these current crop of Indian batsmen have that mentality

 

[Saj]

Well, then it was Micky's fault to be totally uninformed about the itinerary of the tour. If the analyst traveling with the team did not know or did not tell Micky, then it is his fault. He should be fired!

Are these guys supposed to be able to know how every pitch will play before they tour.

If so, then they are geniuses.

 

[Hyperion66]

Pioneered by the great sunny and then sachin. There’s nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t kill the momentum team hs built up. I think Babar’s innings today was fine.

Babar isn't good enough to be mentioned in the same post with Sunny and Sachin let alone be compared with them in any way. Please have some respect for the legends of the game.