It's not too late to build up Mohammad Hasnain and Haris Rauf's workloads for the England Tests

[Junaids]

It's the 23rd of May. The First Test in England is now 74 days - 10 and a half weeks - away.

And uniquely Pakistan will be taking a 25 man squad for the duration, to cover both Tests and T20is. For once there is a genuine prospect of someone like Haris Rauf or Mohammad Hasnain bowling his way into the Test team on his performances as a red ball net bowler. And while Misbah has a strong preference for Musa Khan and Imran Khan, I think we can all see that Hasnain and Rauf have vastly more red ball potential than either of them.

Pakistan is clearly going to struggle with its batting. Misbah will rely upon Azhar Ali and Haris Sohail to occupy two of the six specialist slots even though they average 12.12 and 25 respectively away over the last two years.

So Pakistan will be reliant upon EITHER:

1. Picking two all-rounders as well as Mohammad Rizwan, to ensure that numbers 6-8 deliver the runs that numbers 3 and 5 will fail to produce, OR

2. Picking four top class quick bowlers in the starting eleven to try to dismiss England as cheaply as possible.

Pakistan will clearly pick Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah in the attack. And probably Mohammad Abbas too.

They will need to decide whether they trust Yasir Shah, who has a terrible record in England outside London, or whether they pick Shadab Khan and four quicks.

If they do pick four quicks, they have another big decision to take. Do they trust Haris Rauf or Mohammad Hasnain to manage the heavier workload of a Test, in which they are likely to have to bowl 40 overs in 5 days?

Clearly neither Hasnain nor Rauf can be picked as part of a three pace bowler attack, which would lift their workload to 20-25 overs per day.

But if Pakistan picks four quicks each one only has to bowl 15-18 overs per day.

And that opens up the possibility that Hasnain or Rauf - or even both of them - could be taken primarily for the T20 squad but could actually play 1 or more Tests each.

All the evidence so far is this. If Shaheen and Naseem are part of a 3 man pace attack they will be overbowled and will lose pace and control. But if they are part of a four man pace attack, their own level of dengerousness will increase.

There are ten weeks to go. I cannot see why the PCB cannot start to increase the Hasnain and Rauf workloads now, in camp, to ensure that they can reliably bowl 10 overs per day by 20 June and 15 overs per day by 20 July. And then lift their workloads slightly higher to peak at 20 overs per day by the First Test.

 

[MenInG]

ICC have said that 2 months are needed to get Test bowlers ready after the covid break so there is time for this.

 

[Asifnow]

Both these guys should play the t20 matches and be bled into the test side slowly.

On top of that there really isn't a need for 4 out n out pace bowlers 3 is enough with an all rounder and a spinner.

 

[Junaids]

Both these guys should play the t20 matches and be bled into the test side slowly.

On top of that there really isn't a need for 4 out n out pace bowlers 3 is enough with an all rounder and a spinner.

In England on Days 1-4 you need four quicks. If you only have three you end up overbowling them.

But my point was that because Azhar and Haris are passengers, Pakistan can only win a low-scoring series. So it is important that there is no respite for the English batsmen: there need to be two good quick bowlers operating with the Dukes ball for the first 80 minutes of every session.

With three quicks Pakistan can only go a maximum of 40 minutes with quality pace at both ends, but with four they can basically operate continuously.

 

[Titan24]

While Rauf has a natural outswinger, I still think he needs bit more consistency in his lengths. If they can be achieved in couple of months along with the fitness required then he can be looked at.

Coming to Hasnain I dont think he has developed that perfect seam position yet which is required in swinging conditions. He has improved but not sure if he is ready as a bowler yet, workload aside. Ideally should play FC cricket this season to get more consistency and repeatability in his bowling. I doubt he will be able to keep it tight in cruical situations as of yet. Hopefully in an year or so.

I think following bowlers would be enough as they have FC experience behind them and probably suited to most of English conditions:

Mohammad Abbas
Shaheen Shah
Naseem Shah
Ehsan Adil
Usman Shinwari (His death bowling and T20 issues aside, he still generates good movement with new ball more often than not even on surfaces which dont assist, could be handy in UK with some assistance throughout the tests )

Backup if required
Sameen Gul

All rounder
Faheem Ashraf

 

[ExplicitAI]

Hasnain is just a bowler who can bowl at high speeds, that's nothing to get excited about; he'll get carted all over the ground and doesn't look aggressive enough. Go look for bowlers in Punjab if you want someone who can compete with the top teams in the world, majority of our legendary bowlers are from there.

 

[Firebat]

Think it's far too early to be thinking about putting Hasnain (who I'm personally not crazy about) and Haris Rauf (who I like, but in all honesty he's just had one successful BBL campaign) into the Test team, especially for Tests this summer.

We have our fair share of young, very quick bowlers who are flourishing nicely in the team, Shaheen and Naseem, so I don't think there's space for them, and not ahead of the experience of Abbas, Yasir etc either.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

4th bowler will obviously be Imran Khan and I would suspect Rahat Ali being in the mix too eventhough I really hope he isn't. Neither Hasnain nor Haris Rauf are ready for test cricket. For that you have to play some level of FC cricket and these two have barely played any.

One bowler who must be in that squad is Faheem Ashraf.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

While Rauf has a natural outswinger, I still think he needs bit more consistency in his lengths. If they can be achieved in couple of months along with the fitness required then he can be looked at.

Coming to Hasnain I dont think he has developed that perfect seam position yet which is required in swinging conditions. He has improved but not sure if he is ready as a bowler yet, workload aside. Ideally should play FC cricket this season to get more consistency and repeatability in his bowling. I doubt he will be able to keep it tight in cruical situations as of yet. Hopefully in an year or so.

I think following bowlers would be enough as they have FC experience behind them and probably suited to most of English conditions:

Mohammad Abbas
Shaheen Shah
Naseem Shah
Ehsan Adil
Usman Shinwari (His death bowling and T20 issues aside, he still generates good movement with new ball more often than not even on surfaces which dont assist, could be handy in UK with some assistance throughout the tests )

Backup if required
Sameen Gul

All rounder
Faheem Ashraf

Ehsan Adil, Sameen Gul and Shinwari are all terrible options for your front-line, back-up fast-bowling attack. Rahat Ali would be more effective than these three in those conditions and nobody dislikes Rahat Ali more than me

 

[Asifnow]

In England on Days 1-4 you need four quicks. If you only have three you end up overbowling them.

But my point was that because Azhar and Haris are passengers, Pakistan can only win a low-scoring series. So it is important that there is no respite for the English batsmen: there need to be two good quick bowlers operating with the Dukes ball for the first 80 minutes of every session.

With three quicks Pakistan can only go a maximum of 40 minutes with quality pace at both ends, but with four they can basically operate continuously.

3 quicks plus Shah plus an all rounder which can either be Ashraf or Shadab would be ideal.

I agree, Haris and Azhar could be passengers but who knows, Haris still has a lot to give if he stays motivated. The bigger issue is I don't think Haris should be selected anyway.

4 quicks would be a graveyard of same old same old and we have seen teams suffer that fate in tests.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Can''t overstate how important it is that Faheem Ashraf is in the squad and plays atleast 2 Tests. Naseem and Shaheen can't be over-bowled. While Shaheen may actually sustain it Naseem will almost certainly get injured.

 

[Titan24]

Ehsan Adil, Sameen Gul and Shinwari are all terrible options for your front-line, back-up fast-bowling attack. Rahat Ali would be more effective than these three in those conditions and nobody dislikes Rahat Ali more than me

Ehsan Adil, Sameen Gul and Shinwari all 3 were amongst statistically better pacers in the new QAE trophy. Ehsan Adil was the most economical pacer and kept it tight while Sameen Gul and Shinwari both averaged 25 in that high scoring tournament.

Rahat Ali can swing the ball but throughout out his career he has been more back of length bowler which neither suited his own style nor will it be much of help in English conditions unless he improves that dramatically. If he can ball fuller he can be handful in Eng otherwise not.

 

[shamaan]

Can''t overstate how important it is that Faheem Ashraf is in the squad and plays atleast 2 Tests. Naseem and Shaheen can't be over-bowled. While Shaheen may actually sustain it Naseem will almost certainly get injured.

100 percent both fahim and shadab have to play that will give them balance in bowling and batting

 

[shamaan]

3 quicks plus Shah plus an all rounder which can either be Ashraf or Shadab would be ideal.

I agree, Haris and Azhar could be passengers but who knows, Haris still has a lot to give if he stays motivated. The bigger issue is I don't think Haris should be selected anyway.

4 quicks would be a graveyard of same old same old and we have seen teams suffer that fate in tests.

Should defo be 3 quicks pluss ashraf and shadab
Harris shouldn't be in the team rizwan at 6 then 2 all rounders pluss 3 fast bowlers

 

[shamaan]

Both these guys should play the t20 matches and be bled into the test side slowly.

On top of that there really isn't a need for 4 out n out pace bowlers 3 is enough with an all rounder and a spinner.

Agreed should be 3 fast plus fahim pluss shadab

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Hasnain is just a bowler who can bowl at high speeds, that's nothing to get excited about; he'll get carted all over the ground and doesn't look aggressive enough. Go look for bowlers in Punjab if you want someone who can compete with the top teams in the world, majority of our legendary bowlers are from there.

He seems to be going the Sami route. Needs to improve his bowling skills drastically otherwise people will start calling him the new Sami.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ehsan Adil, Sameen Gul and Shinwari all 3 were amongst statistically better pacers in the new QAE trophy. Ehsan Adil was the most economical pacer and kept it tight while Sameen Gul and Shinwari both averaged 25 in that high scoring tournament.

Rahat Ali can swing the ball but throughout out his career he has been more back of length bowler which neither suited his own style nor will it be much of help in English conditions unless he improves that dramatically. If he can ball fuller he can be handful in Eng otherwise not.

QEA Trophy is hardly a yardstick for judging the true quality of a seamer. We all know of the kind of pitches they have been dishing out up until the most recent revamp. But even if we talk about this season Ehsan Adil has been average at best. Certainly has not done anything extraordinary that puts him above the many fast-bowlers who have never gotten the chance to play for Pakistan. He is not particularly skilled with the ball either and you need skillz in England. Nibbling it around is not enough. Sameen has bowled well this season but I don't feel confident in him as a long-term prospect. And that's my personal opinion that less to do with stats and more with what I see when he bowls. Whereas, Shinwari is injury-prone and a liability on such a major test tour. He has a history of stress-fractures that date all the way back to 2013.

Rahat is ofcourse (almost) just as bad, and as you rightly mentioned bowls too back of a length. The only option that makes sense is Faheem Ashraf. He offers a little something with the bat, bowled well enough in QEA and above all, has an excellent record in test matches thus far. His strong-suit is his disciplined line-and-length and while that may not always work in ODIs in England, in seaming conditions there are few things as valuable. I also think he showed up Pakistan's entire attack in the last test against South Africa yet for some reason didn't get to play a test after that.

At any rate, he needs to come back into the side as the fourth bowler.

 

[Nasty Naz]

Between them, they've played a whopping 5 FC matches so far. They will not be in consideration for England Test matches, nor should they be.

I'd expect Naseem/Shaheen/Abbas to be the main bowlers. Not sure who the extra bowlers will be but it might be Faheem & Usman Khan. Usman Khan has a pretty good FC record, I think he is worth a proper look, to be honest.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I think both could with a season in FC cricket. Its best not risk a sudden serious injury with these two. Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul would be ideal selections for the Test series.

 

[Asifnow]

Should defo be 3 quicks pluss ashraf and shadab
Harris shouldn't be in the team rizwan at 6 then 2 all rounders pluss 3 fast bowlers

Agreed should be 3 fast plus fahim pluss shadab

Exactly!

I don't think the think tank for team Pak need to get dragged into this theory that fast bowlers are effective in England...they are but 4 is overkill (we have seen this tactic fail India, Aus and SA), we have also seen that English batsmen are still circumspect against spin and we saw it first hand in 2016. Plus, with how late the series will be, pitches here dry out A LOT, the weather is hot and the sun is harsh. Spinners, good ones like Shah and Shadab will be effective on days 4 and 5.

 

[shamaan]

QEA Trophy is hardly a yardstick for judging the true quality of a seamer. We all know of the kind of pitches they have been dishing out up until the most recent revamp. But even if we talk about this season Ehsan Adil has been average at best. Certainly has not done anything extraordinary that puts him above the many fast-bowlers who have never gotten the chance to play for Pakistan. He is not particularly skilled with the ball either and you need skillz in England. Nibbling it around is not enough. Sameen has bowled well this season but I don't feel confident in him as a long-term prospect. And that's my personal opinion that less to do with stats and more with what I see when he bowls. Whereas, Shinwari is injury-prone and a liability on such a major test tour. He has a history of stress-fractures that date all the way back to 2013.

Rahat is ofcourse (almost) just as bad, and as you rightly mentioned bowls too back of a length. The only option that makes sense is Faheem Ashraf. He offers a little something with the bat, bowled well enough in QEA and above all, has an excellent record in test matches thus far. His strong-suit is his disciplined line-and-length and while that may not always work in ODIs in England, in seaming conditions there are few things as valuable. I also think he showed up Pakistan's entire attack in the last test against South Africa yet for some reason didn't get to play a test after that.

At any rate, he needs to come back into the side as the fourth bowler.

The pitches are getting better but will take time maybe another season or 2 until we see proper improvements.nibbling it around is classed as skill and if it isnt what is called as skill.

I agree that fahim offers a little bit with the bat and decent stuff with his bowling but he should only play in a 5 man attack not a 4 man attack

 

[shamaan]

Between them, they've played a whopping 5 FC matches so far. They will not be in consideration for England Test matches, nor should they be.

I'd expect Naseem/Shaheen/Abbas to be the main bowlers. Not sure who the extra bowlers will be but it might be Faheem & Usman Khan. Usman Khan has a pretty good FC record, I think he is worth a proper look, to be honest.

I agree naseem,shaheen,abbas pluss fahim and shadab covers the batting abit

 

[shamaan]

Exactly!

I don't think the think tank for team Pak need to get dragged into this theory that fast bowlers are effective in England...they are but 4 is overkill (we have seen this tactic fail India, Aus and SA), we have also seen that English batsmen are still circumspect against spin and we saw it first hand in 2016. Plus, with how late the series will be, pitches here dry out A LOT, the weather is hot and the sun is harsh. Spinners, good ones like Shah and Shadab will be effective on days 4 and 5.

I fink misbah will go 4 man attack but he should go wiz 5 man attack.i would not include yasir unless its absolutely going to spin.id play shadab bexouse I belive hes got enough in the batting and is a decent enough bowler pluss having 5 man attack will be better for naseem who can run in and bowl quick short spells

 

[ahmadharis1]

No, give them a few full seasons of first class cricket. Both of their records are horrendous for a test call-up

 

[Junaids]

Between them, they've played a whopping 5 FC matches so far. They will not be in consideration for England Test matches, nor should they be.

I'd expect Naseem/Shaheen/Abbas to be the main bowlers. Not sure who the extra bowlers will be but it might be Faheem & Usman Khan. Usman Khan has a pretty good FC record, I think he is worth a proper look, to be honest.

With respect, you’re missing my point.

This is one tour where both the Test and T20 specialists camp and then spend the whole tour together.

Realistically, Misbah will have Musa and Imran as his fourth and fifth choice quicks for the Tests, but Hasnain and Rauf will also be there as red ball net bowlers until the T20 series starts.

My guess is that Rauf and Hasnain will present the Test batsmen with far more difficulty in the nets than Musa and Imran. And Shan Masood will say to Misbah “why not pick one of them ahead of Yasir Shah, who averages 100 runs per wicket in SENA since the 2016 England tour?”

And Misbah will reply “I would, but they haven’t played enough red ball cricket to bowl 40 overs in 5 days”.

So I’m saying that since Rauf and Hasnain will be there anyway, why not build up their workloads now so that they are available for selection in the Tests too?

I get that they have no red ball experience. But they are going to be in the squad, so you might as well have them available to play.

 

[shamaan]

With respect, you’re missing my point.

This is one tour where both the Test and T20 specialists camp and then spend the whole tour together.

Realistically, Misbah will have Musa and Imran as his fourth and fifth choice quicks for the Tests, but Hasnain and Rauf will also be there as red ball net bowlers until the T20 series starts.

My guess is that Rauf and Hasnain will present the Test batsmen with far more difficulty in the nets than Musa and Imran. And Shan Masood will say to Misbah “why not pick one of them ahead of Yasir Shah, who averages 100 runs per wicket in SENA since the 2016 England tour?”

And Misbah will reply “I would, but they haven’t played enough red ball cricket to bowl 40 overs in 5 days”.

So I’m saying that since Rauf and Hasnain will be there anyway, why not build up their workloads now so that they are available for selection in the Tests too?

I get that they have no red ball experience. But they are going to be in the squad, so you might as well have them available to play.

I get your point but they wont be playing the test series but misbah should test them and see if they capable of playing the long format which then he will think even more when picking his next test series

 

[Junaids]

I get your point but they wont be playing the test series but misbah should test them and see if they capable of playing the long format which then he will think even more when picking his next test series

Let me give you a scenario.

Pakistan do their 14 day arrival quarantine at the Old Trafford Hilton Garden Inn, permitting them to play two five day practice Tests among their 25 man squad on the Old Trafford middle.

And the scorecards look like this:

Pakistan 260 all out
Abid 18
Masood 25
Azhar 0
Babar 64
Haris 0
Rizwan 102

Musa 13-0-72-0
Imran 17-4-68-1
Hasnain 18-4-43-4
Rauf 19-6-43-4
Shadab 10-3-20-1

Pakistan A 340 all out
Fawad 100
Sarfraz 95
Shadab 65

Abbas 25-5-65-2
Shaheen 20-5-50-2
Naseem 20-5-80-3
Yasir 15-2-75-0
Faheem 25-5-65-3

I think these returns are very possible, probable even.

And at that point you’d be looking at picking your best four quicks with Shadab as a Moeen Ali style seventh batsman who can bowl a team out of the pitch breaks up on Day 5.

But it would also be obvious that Hasnain and Rauf are more viable in Tests in 2020 than Musa or Imran.

 

[shamaan]

Let me give you a scenario.

Pakistan do their 14 day arrival quarantine at the Old Trafford Hilton Garden Inn, permitting them to play two five day practice Tests among their 25 man squad on the Old Trafford middle.

And the scorecards look like this:

Pakistan 260 all out
Abid 18
Masood 25
Azhar 0
Babar 64
Haris 0
Rizwan 102

Musa 13-0-72-0
Imran 17-4-68-1
Hasnain 18-4-43-4
Rauf 19-6-43-4
Shadab 10-3-20-1

Pakistan A 340 all out
Fawad 100
Sarfraz 95
Shadab 65

Abbas 25-5-65-2
Shaheen 20-5-50-2
Naseem 20-5-80-3
Yasir 15-2-75-0
Faheem 25-5-65-3

I think these returns are very possible, probable even.

And at that point you’d be looking at picking your best four quicks with Shadab as a Moeen Ali style seventh batsman who can bowl a team out of the pitch breaks up on Day 5.

But it would also be obvious that Hasnain and Rauf are more viable in Tests in 2020 than Musa or Imran.

You think husnain and rauf will get 4 wickets a peice and go at similar run rate that shaheen but far better in wickets than both shaheen and naseem and be more economical than naseem that is wishful thinking.i am not saying that husnain and rauf are not viable in tests my point is they have no experience in test match at all they cant just build stamina and fitness within 2 months yes they should be played in the intra matches if they perform well then they need to be considered for the next tour

I stil belive fahim has to be out of the quicks who can bat abit with shadab

 

[RickyG]

Hasnain is just a bowler who can bowl at high speeds, that's nothing to get excited about; he'll get carted all over the ground and doesn't look aggressive enough. Go look for bowlers in Punjab if you want someone who can compete with the top teams in the world, majority of our legendary bowlers are from there.

Disagree. Then you end up with a bunch of Paindus. And if they’re not paindus then they’ll be match-fixers like Wasim/Waqar/Amir/Asif.

Ideally get Pathan bowlers and batsmen developed in Karachi

 

[Junaids]

You think husnain and rauf will get 4 wickets a peice and go at similar run rate that shaheen but far better in wickets than both shaheen and naseem and be more economical than naseem that is wishful thinking.i am not saying that husnain and rauf are not viable in tests my point is they have no experience in test match at all they cant just build stamina and fitness within 2 months yes they should be played in the intra matches if they perform well then they need to be considered for the next tour

I stil belive fahim has to be out of the quicks who can bat abit with shadab

I’m not suggesting that Rauf or Hasnain replace Shaheen or Naseem or Abbas.

I’m saying that if one or more of them can’t play, I’d prefer Hasnain or Rauf to Imran or Musa. But that will require careful workload management starting now.

 

[Nasty Naz]

With respect, you’re missing my point.

This is one tour where both the Test and T20 specialists camp and then spend the whole tour together.

Realistically, Misbah will have Musa and Imran as his fourth and fifth choice quicks for the Tests, but Hasnain and Rauf will also be there as red ball net bowlers until the T20 series starts.

My guess is that Rauf and Hasnain will present the Test batsmen with far more difficulty in the nets than Musa and Imran. And Shan Masood will say to Misbah “why not pick one of them ahead of Yasir Shah, who averages 100 runs per wicket in SENA since the 2016 England tour?”

And Misbah will reply “I would, but they haven’t played enough red ball cricket to bowl 40 overs in 5 days”.

So I’m saying that since Rauf and Hasnain will be there anyway, why not build up their workloads now so that they are available for selection in the Tests too?

I get that they have no red ball experience. But they are going to be in the squad, so you might as well have them available to play.

Sure, it's not like its a bad thing to build up their workload but just don't expect them to be selected.

With the big squad they are taking to England, they should schedule multiple 3-4 day Test matches between the squads themselves to build up everyone's workload and get them properly prepared for the pitches.

 

[Junaids]

There is a clear problem for Pakistan.

The inclusion of Azhar Ali and Haris Sohail means that Pakistan will be lucky to reach 250 runs per innings in England.

That leaves two options.

Option 1: Strengthen the batting by selecting Faheem Ashraf and Shadab Khan as the fourth and fifth bowlers.

(In Faheem’s four Tests - in England, Ireland and South Africa - he scored three times more runs than Azhar Ali).

Option 2: Pick a wicket-taking fourth seamer - Rauf or Hasnain - rather than a defensive bowler like Imran Khan.

In other words, either pick Rauf as fourth seamer to reduce England’s scores, or pick Faheem and Shadab as the fourth and fifth bowlers to compensate for Azhar and Haris’ inevitable lack of runs.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The pitches are getting better but will take time maybe another season or 2 until we see proper improvements.nibbling it around is classed as skill and if it isnt what is called as skill.

I agree that fahim offers a little bit with the bat and decent stuff with his bowling but he should only play in a 5 man attack not a 4 man attack

His performances in overseas conditions show otherwise. He has made a strong case as the 4th bowler.

 

[Junaids]

His performances in overseas conditions show otherwise. He has made a strong case as the 4th bowler.

But Faheem has always played in the same Test eleven as Shadab - so there were five bowlers.

I reluctantly accept that Azhar will play in England. But I would drop the equally past-his-use by date Haris Sohail, and go with:

1. Abid Ali
2. Shan Masood (a risk in English conditions)
3. Azhar Ali (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Amir (he’s there for the T20’s, so play him in the Tests too, we all know that he will agree, and he shortens the tail)
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Khan

Reserves: Mohammad Abbas, Haris Rauf

I have no use for Yasir Shah or Musa Khan or Imran Khan.

To me there’s no shame in Amir accepting a call -up - Javed Miandad and Wasim Akram and Imran Khan only played selectively in their final years.

 

[Nasty Naz]

But Faheem has always played in the same Test eleven as Shadab - so there were five bowlers.

I reluctantly accept that Azhar will play in England. But I would drop the equally past-his-use by date Haris Sohail, and go with:

1. Abid Ali
2. Shan Masood (a risk in English conditions)
3. Azhar Ali (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Amir (he’s there for the T20’s, so play him in the Tests too, we all know that he will agree, and he shortens the tail)
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Khan

Reserves: Mohammad Abbas, Haris Rauf

I have no use for Yasir Shah or Musa Khan or Imran Khan.

To me there’s no shame in Amir accepting a call -up - Javed Miandad and Wasim Akram and Imran Khan only played selectively in their final years.

So pretty similar to the god forsaken lineup Pakistan had vs SA in the 3rd test?

Faheem test scores in innings not including Ireland: 37, 0, 3, 0, 15. I think people are deluding themselves if they think Faheem is a legit allrounder or can contribute with the bat. Mediocre bit and pieces cricketers don't work in Tests.

Either way, I think it would be a mistake to drop Haris Sohail. Honestly, I'd just swap Faheem with Haris and if you need a 5th bowler, use Haris or Azhar as part-time spinners.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

But Faheem has always played in the same Test eleven as Shadab - so there were five bowlers.

I reluctantly accept that Azhar will play in England. But I would drop the equally past-his-use by date Haris Sohail, and go with:

1. Abid Ali
2. Shan Masood (a risk in English conditions)
3. Azhar Ali (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Amir (he’s there for the T20’s, so play him in the Tests too, we all know that he will agree, and he shortens the tail)
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Khan

Reserves: Mohammad Abbas, Haris Rauf

I have no use for Yasir Shah or Musa Khan or Imran Khan.

To me there’s no shame in Amir accepting a call -up - Javed Miandad and Wasim Akram and Imran Khan only played selectively in their final years.

Playing in SENA without 5 bowlers and expecting to win is just unrealistic. I agree he is not a front-line bowler but if he plays as the 4th in an attack of 5 (including one spinner) then I think he can be highly effective while providing Pakistan with a pretty balanced attack on paper

Amir won't play. And its ludicrous to drop Abbas in the first place. English conditions exist for bowlers like Abbas. If anyone deserves to get the boot its Shafiq in place of Fawad or Haris. Other than that its the best team Pakistan can put on the field.

 

[shamaan]

His performances in overseas conditions show otherwise. He has made a strong case as the 4th bowler.

So your saying play him only in asain conditions.and yes he has example when he came England

 

[shamaan]

But Faheem has always played in the same Test eleven as Shadab - so there were five bowlers.

I reluctantly accept that Azhar will play in England. But I would drop the equally past-his-use by date Haris Sohail, and go with:

1. Abid Ali
2. Shan Masood (a risk in English conditions)
3. Azhar Ali (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Amir (he’s there for the T20’s, so play him in the Tests too, we all know that he will agree, and he shortens the tail)
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Khan

Reserves: Mohammad Abbas, Haris Rauf

I have no use for Yasir Shah or Musa Khan or Imran Khan.

To me there’s no shame in Amir accepting a call -up - Javed Miandad and Wasim Akram and Imran Khan only played selectively in their final years.

That's the team I would go wiz if amir is willing to play

 

[shamaan]

Playing in SENA without 5 bowlers and expecting to win is just unrealistic. I agree he is not a front-line bowler but if he plays as the 4th in an attack of 5 (including one spinner) then I think he can be highly effective while providing Pakistan with a pretty balanced attack on paper

Amir won't play. And its ludicrous to drop Abbas in the first place. English conditions exist for bowlers like Abbas. If anyone deserves to get the boot its Shafiq in place of Fawad or Haris. Other than that its the best team Pakistan can put on the field.

Harris cant play fast bowling in tests he will struggle against archer horribly

 

[shamaan]

So pretty similar to the god forsaken lineup Pakistan had vs SA in the 3rd test?

Faheem test scores in innings not including Ireland: 37, 0, 3, 0, 15. I think people are deluding themselves if they think Faheem is a legit allrounder or can contribute with the bat. Mediocre bit and pieces cricketers don't work in Tests.

Either way, I think it would be a mistake to drop Haris Sohail. Honestly, I'd just swap Faheem with Haris and if you need a 5th bowler, use Haris or Azhar as part-time spinners.

The thing is harris against fast bowling struggles horribly hes good against spin

 

[shamaan]

I’m not suggesting that Rauf or Hasnain replace Shaheen or Naseem or Abbas.

I’m saying that if one or more of them can’t play, I’d prefer Hasnain or Rauf to Imran or Musa. But that will require careful workload management starting now.

But your figures suggest they better bowlers than both shaheen and and naseem.

Yes they should build the workload and fitness and when they are at a certain fitness levels then they can be put into series and matches but they should play in the intra matches and see what they capable off

 

[Nasty Naz]

The thing is harris against fast bowling struggles horribly hes good against spin

He mainly just struggled in Australia with the bounce.

 

[shamaan]

He mainly just struggled in Australia with the bounce.

Yes it's TRUE but archer will create bounce with his height and pace

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Harris cant play fast bowling in tests he will struggle against archer horribly

Haris is a talented batsman with a good technique. He can succeed if he applies himself. Talent-wise he is unquestionably the second best batsman in the Pakistan side right now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

So your saying play him only in asain conditions.and yes he has example when he came England

He can play in all conditions if he delivers as an all-rounder the way he has in the few test matches he has played so far.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I’m not suggesting that Rauf or Hasnain replace Shaheen or Naseem or Abbas.

I’m saying that if one or more of them can’t play, I’d prefer Hasnain or Rauf to Imran or Musa. But that will require careful workload management starting now.

While I agree that talent-wise both are more exciting prospects than Imran Khan the fact is that you can't play test cricket till you have had the experience of bowling long spells in FC games. With young players there is always a huge risk of injury aswell because their muscles are not developed to cope with the long hours of toil. And simply training and bowling in the nets is not the same. We saw this with Naseem in Australia eventho he had played some FC games. Musa, I just felt bad for. He clearly didn't know what lengths to bowl which makes sense considering how young and inexperienced he is and to throw him in on a flat wicket at Adelaide as a front-line bowler was not fair and must have been a scarring experience for him. So I hope you can understand why I am susceptible to debuting Rauf and Hasnain in England. Imran for all his lack of pace and bite might actually do well in England and is not a bad option as a back-up bowler.

 

[Junaids]

While I agree that talent-wise both are more exciting prospects than Imran Khan the fact is that you can't play test cricket till you have had the experience of bowling long spells in FC games. With young players there is always a huge risk of injury aswell because their muscles are not developed to cope with the long hours of toil. And simply training and bowling in the nets is not the same. We saw this with Naseem in Australia eventho he had played some FC games. Musa, I just felt bad for. He clearly didn't know what lengths to bowl which makes sense considering how young and inexperienced he is and to throw him in on a flat wicket at Adelaide as a front-line bowler was not fair and must have been a scarring experience for him. So I hope you can understand why I am susceptible to debuting Rauf and Hasnain in England. Imran for all his lack of pace and bite might actually do well in England and is not a bad option as a back-up bowler.

This is a very good post, but I disagree with a few aspects of it.

I think a BATSMAN needs adequate First Class experience before playing tests, as does a spinner or a medium pacer. But quick bowlers actually don't - if you look at Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and Shaheen Shah Afridi, they were very quickly effective at Test level even though none of them had played even 5 First Class matches in their life.

Much of it depends upon having a skipper or senior fast bowler at mid-on who can tell them what to bowl - Imran Khan literally did that with Waqar Younis, although Wasim Akram already had a Test 10 wicket haul in his second Test before he even met Imran Khan.

It's a bad mistake to think that Imran Khan can be effective in England - he has actually played against England before, yet no county even considered signing him up. And there's a reason for that - he may only be medium-paced, but his bowling is a mixture of being too short for England or too full for England.

I too would be reluctant to play Hasnain in England, but Haris Rauf is different. He scared people in Australia, and he's mature and thoughtful, and to be honest I'd very seriously consider playing him. Ask Dale Steyn - he thinks that he's the real deal.

 

[MMHS]

I am sure if PAK indeed picks 25 players (Should be around 12 pacers then), Hasnain & Rauf will be among them. Might not get into Test squad straightway, but I am sure both'll feature in T20 squad - one, may be both will play as well.

 

[Salman4.]

They are red-ball bowlers (currently). They should be looked after to trasition out Wahab and Amir only. They cannot sustain test cricket, esp Hasnain.

 

[FreePalestine]

Lots of very strange ideas in this thread.... Hasnain and Rauf are not ready for test cricket. Neither was Musa. Imran Khan Jnr. should never have been picked for Australia.

The top four test seamers we have right now are: Shaheen, Abbas, Naseem, Shinwari

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is a very good post, but I disagree with a few aspects of it.

I think a BATSMAN needs adequate First Class experience before playing tests, as does a spinner or a medium pacer. But quick bowlers actually don't - if you look at Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and Shaheen Shah Afridi, they were very quickly effective at Test level even though none of them had played even 5 First Class matches in their life.

Much of it depends upon having a skipper or senior fast bowler at mid-on who can tell them what to bowl - Imran Khan literally did that with Waqar Younis, although Wasim Akram already had a Test 10 wicket haul in his second Test before he even met Imran Khan.

It's a bad mistake to think that Imran Khan can be effective in England - he has actually played against England before, yet no county even considered signing him up. And there's a reason for that - he may only be medium-paced, but his bowling is a mixture of being too short for England or too full for England.

I too would be reluctant to play Hasnain in England, but Haris Rauf is different. He scared people in Australia, and he's mature and thoughtful, and to be honest I'd very seriously consider playing him. Ask Dale Steyn - he thinks that he's the real deal.

Definitely more true for batsmen and I'm sure there are many examples of bowlers who took to test cricket like a duck to water but there is always the risk of breakdown with the younger bowlers. Rauf for me is an even more dangerous prospect injury-wise because he has had a history of serious injuries in the recent past eventhough he has not played anything more than a few FC & List A games, T20s and club cricket in Australia. I don't know if it has anything to do with the fact that he started playing professionally at a later age than most fast-bowlers but it is a risk nonetheless. But despite the risk I can still understand wanting to put him in the squad considering how depleted Pakistan's pace-bowling stocks are, aswell as the reasons you mentioned which I do agree with.

And I dunno about Imran Khan but England actually sounds kinda perfect for a guy with his bowling style that is all about discipline and line-and-length. A county contract is an elusive thing these days anyway but personally speaking I don't think he would be the worst choice to even start in England if Naseem, Shaheen or Abbas were to get injured. He was a terrible pick for Australia and they selected him there so England can't be any worse than that.

 

[shamaan]

Haris is a talented batsman with a good technique. He can succeed if he applies himself. Talent-wise he is unquestionably the second best batsman in the Pakistan side right now.

Of course but talent can only get you so far.and that is correct talent wise he is second best.and he does need to apply himself but he doesnt thatd the problem

 

[shamaan]

He can play in all conditions if he delivers as an all-rounder the way he has in the few test matches he has played so far.

Like I said in previews post talent wise his second best.hes good in asian conditions cuz thiers no bounce or swing in england or austrlia thier will be one or other.regarding all rounder he doesnt ball enough and cant hold end up.he needs to give him self 30 balls to get used to conditions if he does he will do ok

 

[shamaan]

This is a very good post, but I disagree with a few aspects of it.

I think a BATSMAN needs adequate First Class experience before playing tests, as does a spinner or a medium pacer. But quick bowlers actually don't - if you look at Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and Shaheen Shah Afridi, they were very quickly effective at Test level even though none of them had played even 5 First Class matches in their life.

Much of it depends upon having a skipper or senior fast bowler at mid-on who can tell them what to bowl - Imran Khan literally did that with Waqar Younis, although Wasim Akram already had a Test 10 wicket haul in his second Test before he even met Imran Khan.

It's a bad mistake to think that Imran Khan can be effective in England - he has actually played against England before, yet no county even considered signing him up. And there's a reason for that - he may only be medium-paced, but his bowling is a mixture of being too short for England or too full for England.

I too would be reluctant to play Hasnain in England, but Haris Rauf is different. He scared people in Australia, and he's mature and thoughtful, and to be honest I'd very seriously consider playing him. Ask Dale Steyn - he thinks that he's the real deal.

I totally disagree with you now a days with the amount of cricketer is being played and the speeds that husnain and rauf bowl at its 90 pluss.also imran was captain and all rounder he could tell them what to bowl becouse first hes captain then hes a bowler.with Bateman at the moment azar with potential babar being captain they batters no bowler will listen to them regarding bowling.he scared people yes but 4 bowlers is light work compared to be 15 overs+ per day.dale Steyn said hes the real deal becouse he played in t20s he is real deal in t20s

 

[shamaan]

This is a very good post, but I disagree with a few aspects of it.

I think a BATSMAN needs adequate First Class experience before playing tests, as does a spinner or a medium pacer. But quick bowlers actually don't - if you look at Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and Shaheen Shah Afridi, they were very quickly effective at Test level even though none of them had played even 5 First Class matches in their life.

Much of it depends upon having a skipper or senior fast bowler at mid-on who can tell them what to bowl - Imran Khan literally did that with Waqar Younis, although Wasim Akram already had a Test 10 wicket haul in his second Test before he even met Imran Khan.

It's a bad mistake to think that Imran Khan can be effective in England - he has actually played against England before, yet no county even considered signing him up. And there's a reason for that - he may only be medium-paced, but his bowling is a mixture of being too short for England or too full for England.

I too would be reluctant to play Hasnain in England, but Haris Rauf is different. He scared people in Australia, and he's mature and thoughtful, and to be honest I'd very seriously consider playing him. Ask Dale Steyn - he thinks that he's the real deal.

Bdw I am not saying husnain and rauf wont play test cricket they will but they need to build thier fitness and maybe the next tour they will be considered for now they have to improve thier fitness

 

[ExplicitAI]

Disagree. Then you end up with a bunch of Paindus. And if they’re not paindus then they’ll be match-fixers like Wasim/Waqar/Amir/Asif.

Ideally get Pathan bowlers and batsmen developed in Karachi

I'd much rather go for a bowler from Punjab than a pathan bowler, not been convinced from the likes of Shinwari who are spray guns.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

I think Haris Rauf really needs to be treated gingerly, i don't think he's quite ready for tests as i think he'll get an injury but no doubt he's perfect for t20 at this stage. Haris will be key if the WC t20 goes ahead in Australia so the less stress you put on him the better.

Muhammad Hasnain is improving but again i think it's very early days for him to become a test bowler.

Your current best test bowlers and line-up should be: Abbas, Afridi, Naseem Shah and your spinner should be Kashif Bhatti as he can bat a little as well (bats much better than Bilal Asif) or alternately let's give Zafar Gohar a chance.

 

[shamaan]

I think Haris Rauf really needs to be treated gingerly, i don't think he's quite ready for tests as i think he'll get an injury but no doubt he's perfect for t20 at this stage. Haris will be key if the WC t20 goes ahead in Australia so the less stress you put on him the better.

Muhammad Hasnain is improving but again i think it's very early days for him to become a test bowler.

Your current best test bowlers and line-up should be: Abbas, Afridi, Naseem Shah and your spinner should be Kashif Bhatti as he can bat a little as well (bats much better than Bilal Asif) or alternately let's give Zafar Gohar a chance.

Agree with the above but I'd play gohar

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Agree with the above but I'd play gohar

Just taking sympathy on Bhatti cause i feel he was dropped unjustifiably in the last series without getting a game.

Gohar though was in the top 5 wicket takers in the recently concluded QeA trophy (number 3 behind Bilal Asif and Numan Ali the leading wicket taker).

Numan Ali is another that can be chosen so let's try something new.

 

[shamaan]

Just taking sympathy on Bhatti cause i feel he was dropped unjustifiably in the last series without getting a game.

Gohar though was in the top 5 wicket takers in the recently concluded QeA trophy (number 3 behind Bilal Asif and Numan Ali the leading wicket taker).

Numan Ali is another that can be chosen so let's try something new.

Mate nuaman ali is 33 hes to old
Bilal asif is another one who's to old 34
Kashif bhatti is another one hes 33


Gohar is 25 pluss hes in the top 5 wicket takers hes the only one who's below 30 and has some quality its shows how backwards are spinners are gone that we cant find quality young bowlers

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Mate nuaman ali is 33 hes to old
Bilal asif is another one who's to old 34
Kashif bhatti is another one hes 33


Gohar is 25 pluss hes in the top 5 wicket takers hes the only one who's below 30 and has some quality its shows how backwards are spinners are gone that we cant find quality young bowlers

True but i think Bhatti did well with the bat in a practice game against Aus so there might be some potential there. All you can do is experiment.

 

[shamaan]

True but i think Bhatti did well with the bat in a practice game against Aus so there might be some potential there. All you can do is experiment.

No point experimenting with 30 year olds I rather experiment with new spinner not sure who thou

 

[Shoaibbtt]

No point experimenting with 30 year olds I rather experiment with new spinner not sure who thou

If you want a bowling allrounder then Zafar is perhaps the best bet. I've just not seem many good spinners in our midst, perhaps one spinner to look out for will be Usman Qadir for Odis/t20s. I was honestly quite impressed with him and do feel he will be quite effective.

 

[shamaan]

If you want a bowling allrounder then Zafar is perhaps the best bet. I've just not seem many good spinners in our midst, perhaps one spinner to look out for will be Usman Qadir for Odis/t20s. I was honestly quite impressed with him and do feel he will be quite effective.

Yes mate the future for spinners looking bleaker pcb need to look at this good thing now saqlain may have a role.usman qadir am sure he played in big bash and they wearnt impressed also going to be hard for him 2 replace shadab and imad in t20s and odis

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Yes mate the future for spinners looking bleaker pcb need to look at this good thing now saqlain may have a role.usman qadir am sure he played in big bash and they wearnt impressed also going to be hard for him 2 replace shadab and imad in t20s and odis

Well i would not mind Shadab transitioning into a batsman and slowly moving away from his bowling duties, he's impressed me with his batting in the PSL so it would be interesting. The only reason why Usman impresses me is because he bowls a lot like his dad (may Allah give him a place in paradise) and he could lessen the load. I reckon with giving him chances and more games he'll come good plus if he got consultancy off of Imran Tahir he'd be next level.

 

[shamaan]

Tbh in tests hes more a batting all rounder
In odis and t20s hes more a bowling all rounder

I no he has won matches with the ball in odis/t20s and scored runs in tests.i think hes won 1 or 2 matches in t20s in batting