It's the ODI WC final and your team needs 320 runs to win - Who do you pick: Kohli, Amla or ABdV?

[shaz619]

So your team has been set a target of 320 runs to win in a World Cup final and you do not know the quality of the opposition or conditions. Prior to the game you were given the option to select one of the three players:

Virat Kohli

ABDV

Hashim Amla

Who would you have picked and why ?

 

[silentkiller187]

we already saw what kohli would do this summer, probably rules him out

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] a poll please

 

[shaz619]

we already saw what kohli would do this summer, probably rules him out

He played a good knock in 2013 CT though and chasing is meant to be his forte, so he has potential. Lets see what PPers reckon given that he's also competing with ABDV and Amla.

 

[shaz619]

Lets be honest, Kohli failed in the 2017 CT but am sure that many of us breathed very easy when he did get out. It goes to show he's India's most dangerous player given that MS Dhoni is now past his prime (still world class but past his peak).

 

[Slog]

we already saw what kohli would do this summer, probably rules him out

Normally you can make a case brag Kohli isn't a great chases in pressure tournament finals.

However in this scenario the other 2 are ATGs of choking

 

[Abdullah719]

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] a poll please

Done.

Tough choice. Am undecided

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

How about Fakhar Zaman?

VK is a monster in chases but that day Amir would have pwned anyone.

As the man on boundary said "Kohli nahi hoga tujhse chase"

You know, these Pakistani pacers, be unstoppable when on song.

 

[shaz619]

Normally you can make a case brag Kohli isn't a great chases in pressure tournament finals.

However in this scenario the other 2 are ATGs of choking

Done.

Tough choice. Am undecided

The poll a very exciting one it could go right down the wire

 

[leatherface58]

de Villiers is not an option since he will chicken out himself. It is down to guns shooting blanks Amla and VK. I will play with Mike Veletta instead.

 

[shaz619]

de Villiers is not an option since he will chicken out himself. It is down to guns shooting blanks Amla and VK. I will play with Mike Veletta instead.

Stll, ABDV played one hell of a knock in the 2015 WC semi still vs a strong NZ but I think he may have been inconsistent in other KO games during his history but can't recall which ones in particular

 

[CanadianG00se]

At least Kohli takes his team to the final whereas Ab and Amla......

 

[Abdullah719]

Amla is not good at chasing nor is he good in knockouts.

So it's between Kohli and AB for me...

 

[Proactive_]

AB. Amla and Kohli are brothers in arms as far as choking in important games is concerned.

 

[Abdullah719]

Stll, ABDV played one hell of a knock in the 2015 WC semi still vs a strong NZ but I think he may have been inconsistent in other KO games during his history but can't recall which ones in particular

He's only played 6 knockout games in WCs/CTs over the course of his career and two of them were at the start of his career so not much of a sample size.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...trophy=12;trophy=44;type=batting;view=innings

 

[mak36]

He's only played 6 knockout games in WCs/CTs over the course of his career and two of them were at the start of his career so not much of a sample size.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...trophy=12;trophy=44;type=batting;view=innings

Wasn't there a thread which broke down VK's away centuries (chasing) and most of them were against the weaker teams (SL, Bangladesh etc)?

 

[CanadianG00se]

Amla shouldnt even be mentioned along with AbD and Kohli. Amla will perform in bilaterals but will go missing in Icc events. Amla is biggest choker ever. Comparing Amla to Kohli is like comparing V Kumar to G McGrath.

I cant even recall when was the last time Amla played an impact knock under pressure or single handedly helped his team to chase a huge total.

 

[shaz619]

He's only played 6 knockout games in WCs/CTs over the course of his career and two of them were at the start of his career so not much of a sample size.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...trophy=12;trophy=44;type=batting;view=innings

If we look at games from 2011 and beyond in that case then he scored 35 vs NZ in BD , 0 vs ENG in ENG and 65* vs NZ in NZ. So two failures and one superb effort although it came in defeat

 

[Abdullah719]

Wasn't there a thread which broke down VK's away centuries (chasing) and most of them were against the weaker teams (SL, Bangladesh etc)?

I don't recall.

Anyway, he has 19 centuries in chases.

• 9 are at home
• 3 in BD (one was 183 against Pakistan)
• 2 in Aus (one against SL)
• 2 in SL
• 1 in Zim
• 1 in WI
• 1 in NZ
• None in England or South Africa.

 

[shaz619]

Wasn't there a thread which broke down VK's away centuries (chasing) and most of them were against the weaker teams (SL, Bangladesh etc)?

I think there was a bloke who opened such a thread

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...then-SL-WI-Zimbabwe-and-Bangladesh&highlight=

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] I think am leaning towards ABDV on this one, think it's a shoot out between him and Kohli

 

[mak36]

I think there was a bloke who opened such a thread

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...then-SL-WI-Zimbabwe-and-Bangladesh&highlight=

Yes, I hear that "bloke" is a disconsolate Bears fan...

Back to the topic at hand, that was the thread I was looking for so I am very much obliged.

 

[shaz619]

Yes, I hear that "bloke" is a disconsolate Bears fan...

Back to the topic at hand, that was the thread I was looking for so I am very much obliged.

The fella has lost his smile

Who is your pick out of the three ? it's close isn't it

 

[Haz95]

AB de Villiers.

He'll come half way through then 'manage to get himself out' aka choke while the other 2 are non factors. Neither I would bank on to get their teams over the lines...

I still think Kohli might be capable but whenever I do predict it's his time he chokes catastrophically.

 

[mak36]

The fella has lost his smile

Who is your pick out of the three ? it's close isn't it

I suppose it is too soon to joke about it...

It is indeed a difficult one, but it's between AB and Kohli for me. Personally, I think two factors count against VK: (i) as per your OP, the conditions are unknown and (ii) his record in crunch matches is, frankly, terrible.

 

[Leo23]

obviously kohli

 

[Dingolfy]

I would back a prime Ricky Ponting more than anyone for that. But out of the three options, I would back Kohli

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

AB De Villiers in a world cup final. Kohli in semi final.

 

[kingusama92]

Kohli.

@ people picking any South African in a tournament chase.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Kohli.

@ people picking any South African in a tournament chase.

haha AB hasnt played any finals if i am not wrong but Kohli failed in 2 (5 in CT 2017 and 31 in 2011 WC) . So yeah its AB

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Kohli if the opposition is Sri Lanka.

De Villiers otherwise.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Assuming everyone is in equally good form, Kohli every day of the week.

 

[Leo23]

Kohli if the opposition is Sri Lanka.

De Villiers otherwise.

how many 300+ scores has ab chased??

 

[Chief Destroyer]

how many 300+ scores has ab chased??

How many has Kohli chased against a quality attack? De Villiers has once. http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8523/scorecard/736445/Australia-vs-South-Africa-2nd-Match

Kohli none.

On the biggest stage, you expect the opposition to be quality not some B grade attack or Lanka's trundling army, therefore I'd back De Villiers more so than I would Kohli. Even though, realistically, both would fail.

 

[Leo23]

How many has Kohli chased against a quality attack? De Villiers has once. http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8523/scorecard/736445/Australia-vs-South-Africa-2nd-Match

Kohli none.

On the biggest stage, you expect the opposition to be quality not some B grade attack or Lanka's trundling army, therefore I'd back De Villiers more so than I would Kohli. Even though, realistically, both would fail.

the answer is that kohli has chased 300+ a lot more times than de villiers who regularly fails to do so even against mediocre bowling attacks

kohli >>> de villiers

 

[Cric1234]

At the moment De Villiers has shown more.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

the answer is that kohli has chased 300+ a lot more times than de villiers who regularly fails to do so even against mediocre bowling attacks

kohli >>> de villiers

Has no relevance in this thread since Kohli has not proven himself against the very best nor on the biggest stage. Take him outside his comfort zone(Asia) and the chances of him succeeding dwindle further.

Consistently bullying weak attacks at home in bilaterals does not mean he will succeed against the best, on the biggest stage. His record is stacked against him. Eight failures in the finals. Not one successful chase over 200 against England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa away from home even when they've played their B and C attacks. The record speaks for itself.

Case dismissed.

 

[Dingolfy]

How many has Kohli chased against a quality attack? De Villiers has once. http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8523/scorecard/736445/Australia-vs-South-Africa-2nd-Match

Kohli none.

On the biggest stage, you expect the opposition to be quality not some B grade attack or Lanka's trundling army, therefore I'd back De Villiers more so than I would Kohli. Even though, realistically, both would fail.

So Pakistan's 2012 Asia cup attack was mediocre?With Umar Gul and Saeed Ajmal?

 

[Leo23]

Has no relevance in this thread since Kohli has not proven himself against the very best nor on the biggest stage. Take him outside his comfort zone(Asia) and the chances of him succeeding dwindle further.

Consistently bullying weak attacks at home in bilaterals does not mean he will succeed against the best, on the biggest stage. His record is stacked against him. Eight failures in the finals. Not one successful chase over 200 against England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa away from home even when they've played their B and C attacks. The record speaks for itself.

Case dismissed.

there is no case

kohli is superior and he scored 183 against prime ajmal while chasing 320

your bias is too strong and i don't wish to waste my time on you

 

[Chief Destroyer]

So Pakistan's 2012 Asia cup attack was mediocre?With Umar Gul and Saeed Ajmal?

Yes, very much so. Ajmal was the only one who could offer some resistance. Gul was never a great ODI bowler but after the introduction of two new balls throwing reverse swing out of the game, he was helpless. He'd also lost a yard of pace.

 

[Aman]

Kohli.

If I had to pick anyone, it would be Smith or Warner.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

there is no case

kohli is superior and he scored 183 against prime ajmal while chasing 320

your bias is too strong and i don't wish to waste my time on you

There is no bias. I already said, realistically, they would both fail. They're two of my favourite batsmen and I prefer to watch Kohli over AB and do believe Kohli is the superior test batsman because he isn't limited by time therefore does not have to go out of his comfort zone to score against quality bowlers which he finds difficult when asked to do so at a pace his calculated game doesn't allow. Introduce lateral movement and he's further forced into his shell. AB on the other hand is a more gifted striker and scoring against lateral movement is natural to him because of the wickets he's grown up on.

 

[Pollack]

Any tom dik or harry Aussie batsman. Aussies are beast in World Cup finals.

 

[Suleiman]

Feel like I am co-owner of this thread as I was comparing all 3 in my post few hours ago.

Kohli wins easy. Kohli is mayweather and the other 2 are mcgregor, or maybe not because he showed heart and didn't chicken out whereas Amla and AB definitely will. #ABDestroyed

 

[Mobashir]

I saw what Kohli does chasing in a lot of important matches:

WC 2011 quarter Final and Final
WC 2015 semi Final
Champions trophy 2017 Final

So I will try my luck with AB de Villiers.

 

[UN talkz]

Virat Kohli

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Kohli.

If I had to pick anyone, it would be Smith or Warner.

Smith in odis? The same guy who's away odi average is 27?

 

[Suleiman]

How many has Kohli chased against a quality attack? De Villiers has once. http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8523/scorecard/736445/Australia-vs-South-Africa-2nd-Match

Kohli none.

On the biggest stage, you expect the opposition to be quality not some B grade attack or Lanka's trundling army, therefore I'd back De Villiers more so than I would Kohli. Even though, realistically, both would fail.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11913/scorecard/647259/India-vs-Australia-6th-ODI

 

[ToeCrusher2]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11913/scorecard/647259/India-vs-Australia-6th-ODI

That was in India so it doesn't count

 

[ExpressPacer]

I don't understand how this is even a question. While AB is a great player and Amla is okayish, Kohli is impeccable.

 

[Suleiman]

That was in India so it doesn't count

You mean it sarcastically but sadly the flat ODI pitch being exclusive to Asia myth is quite widespread.

If there is 1 South African who has the potential to have the balls to win SAF gold it's QdK.

He is still very young, and if he keeps performing has enough time to get used to the pressures of KO games.

 

[kingusama92]

Kohli scored 183 vs PAK in a huge Asia Cup chase against Prime Ajmal, Umar Gul, and Afridi.

He can handle "big game" pressure.

For those mentioning ICC events.

35 vs SL (WC 2011 Final)
58* vs SL (CT 2013 Semi)
43 vs ENG (CT 2013 Final)
96 vs BANG (CT 2017 Semi)

The sample size is incredibly small to determine much either way.

I can't see how someone would pick AB in such a scenario.

 

[Slog]

Lol at the number of votes for Amla

As many votes for him as the number of pressure innings he has played in knockout matches

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Kohli scored 183 vs PAK in a huge Asia Cup chase against Prime Ajmal, Umar Gul, and Afridi.

He can handle "big game" pressure.

For those mentioning ICC events.

35 vs SL (WC 2011 Final)
58* vs SL (CT 2013 Semi)
43 vs ENG (CT 2013 Final)
96 vs BANG (CT 2017 Semi)

The sample size is incredibly small to determine much either way.

I can't see how someone would pick AB in such a scenario.

That track was flatter than any roads in my town.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

That track was flatter than any roads in my town.

NewsFlash: All the 300+ totals are scored and chased on flat tracks

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

NewsFlash: All the 300+ totals are scored and chased on flat tracks

Don't get triggered my young Indian friend. I ain't questioning VK's chasing ability.

Just saying that we are talking about a track where Hafeez scored a 100 IIRC

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Don't get triggered my young Indian friend. I ain't questioning VK's chasing ability.

Just saying that we are talking about a track where Hafeez scored a 100 IIRC

No one can question Virat's chasing ability, he's the greatest chaser in the history of limited overs cricket. I was also "just saying" that all 300+ tracks are flat tracks, just pointing out the obvious like you

 

[ExplicitAI]

That track was flatter than any roads in my town.

You're correct about the 183 but Umar Gul was wack during those years. People wanted him out because he couldn't buy a wicket and was conceding too many runs. A complete liability.

 

[shaz619]

Kohli scored 183 vs PAK in a huge Asia Cup chase against Prime Ajmal, Umar Gul, and Afridi.

He can handle "big game" pressure.

For those mentioning ICC events.

35 vs SL (WC 2011 Final)
58* vs SL (CT 2013 Semi)
43 vs ENG (CT 2013 Final)
96 vs BANG (CT 2017 Semi)

The sample size is incredibly small to determine much either way.

I can't see how someone would pick AB in such a scenario.

How come you've excluded the CT17 final and WC 2015 Semi final.

Anyhow when it comes to such games we work with the sample available because it's not everyday that players will get to play high profile games and Kohli has had many chances , we can judge him on that. He has been poor generally as [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] points out with regards to opposition quality and conditions. His best knock by far was that 43, it wasn't easy to bat on that wicket even though it came in the 1st innings

 

[Mainul]

There should have been a button named "none". All these 3 will fail.All are soft bilateral series giant.

 

[hadi123]

Kohli without a doubt. The guy is class. We all say he is a flop in pressure matches but let's be honest, I bet every single one of you was extremely annoyed and nervous when Azhar Ali dropped the catch and relieved when he was out the next ball because everyone knows how good Kohli is. I'm a Pakistani and I have a lot of respect for Kohli and would still back him in a chase of 320 runs in a final.

 

[mhraja]

AbDV and Hashim Amla in ODI WC final ))

 

[The_Odd_One]

I will pick Kohli if chasing. If setting a target, definitely AB.

 

[Varun]

How would Amla and de Villiers gotten to the final in the first place?

 

[iHammad]

Rohit Sharma

 

[Hamza_]

Virat

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli without a doubt. The guy is class. We all say he is a flop in pressure matches but let's be honest, I bet every single one of you was extremely annoyed and nervous when Azhar Ali dropped the catch and relieved when he was out the next ball because everyone knows how good Kohli is. I'm a Pakistani and I have a lot of respect for Kohli and would still back him in a chase of 320 runs in a final.

True reflection. Yes, kohli staying till the end vs Amla staying till the end we all know who can do the job. I remember Amla was in 50th over still could not win the match against pakistan.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India produced chasing gurus over the last decade. Dhoni started the process. Yuvi also joined the party alongwith Gauti, Kohli. I remember how many times Pakistan and SA choked against each other in ODIs even in bilaterals. At some point you lose the plot. Even the best collapse. Remember 1987 world cup against India. After being 115/0 how Pakistan lost it.

 

[Hasan123]

Amla shouldn't even be in the discussion. I'll go with Kohli.

 

[WC-Passion]

They all choke in big games, surely this is a trick question?

 

[backfootpunch]

Lol at Amla in this poll his record against top 6 in ICC events let alone knockouts is shambolic to say the least.

 

[idrizzy]

They all choke in big games, surely this is a trick question?

Where's Fakhar?

 

[Slog]

How would Amla and de Villiers gotten to the final in the first place?

Good point. I want to change my vote now

Tbh having Amla in this discussion is a joke

AB has done okay in ICC knockout matches he has played.

 

[Lefthanded]

Instead of rubbishing Kohli, I'd rather give credit for Amir who knocked over three batsmen [and a drop] who are among the best in the format. One guy with 2 double hundreds, the highest scorer in the tournament and Kohli.

Amir bowled one of the best bowling spells any bowler can give in any match.

The best batsmen aren't supposed to magically and single-handedly win finals. Sometimes a bowler has to be credited.

In the prior generation, I'd pick Ponting or Gilchrist in finals.

 

[Haroon786]

So your team has been set a target of 320 runs to win in a World Cup final and you do not know the quality of the opposition or conditions. Prior to the game you were given the option to select one of the three players:

Virat Kohli

ABDV

Hashim Amla

Who would you have picked and why ?

Lol as if SA wouldn't choke in the QFs or SFs before reaching the Finals.

Voted Kohli but so seeing who voted for Amla?

 

[kingusama92]

How come you've excluded the CT17 final and WC 2015 Semi final.

Anyhow when it comes to such games we work with the sample available because it's not everyday that players will get to play high profile games and Kohli has had many chances , we can judge him on that. He has been poor generally as [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] points out with regards to opposition quality and conditions. His best knock by far was that 43, it wasn't easy to bat on that wicket even though it came in the 1st innings

And why were the innings I mentioned excluded by the other poster?



I clearly stated the sample size is too small for either point of view to hold merit.

 

[kingusama92]

That track was flatter than any roads in my town.

Pressure is pressure.

PAK's batting lineup scored 338 in the CT final. Yet, Kohli failed on that road.

Scoring is never a given in big games.

 

[kingusama92]

How would Amla and de Villiers gotten to the final in the first place?

Still remember AB's face after Grant Elliot's brilliant innings in the WC semis.

 

[Bilal7]

AB de Villiers, obviously. He's the only one out of these three to have done something of note in WC KO matches.

However, one batsman never chases down a total so I'll take all three of them, along with Warner, Root and Dhoni.

1) Amla
2) Warner
3) Kohli
4) Root
5) ABD
6) Dhoni

 

[Bilal7]

Pressure is pressure.

PAK's batting lineup scored 338 in the CT final. Yet, Kohli failed on that road.

Scoring is never a given in big games.

You can thank Pakistan's outstanding bowling in that final for that. Kohli did not fail, he was defeated by Amir.