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It's time the PCB toughened its stance on overseas tours

Saj

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I'm all for helping and supporting other Boards, but at the moment some Boards are taking advantage of PCB's generosity and softly softly approach.

PCB in return for their commitment and support is getting very little back from Boards, as we have seen today.

There has to be a change of tact and approach now or PCB will become a laughing stock.
 
I'm all for helping and supporting other Boards, but at the moment some Boards are taking advantage of PCB's generosity and softly softly approach.

PCB in return for their commitment and support is getting very little back from Boards, as we have seen today.

There has to be a change of tact and approach now or PCB will become a laughing stock.

Absolutely that's the right way to go forward now.
 
Totally agree The pcb have been taken advantage of

Theyve gone out of its way to help other boards out in their time of need and when its time to reciprocate theyve been been humiliated

Its time we stopped touring those teams that dont want want to tour pakistan including england

Id rather we play very little cricket abroad than continuing like this
 
It's not easy for the PCB. England, Australia have a big influence in the ICC and will take PCB to the cleaners in the ICC dispute resolution committee where they will successfully influence the ICC to give a verdict against the PCB.
 
It's not easy for the PCB. England, Australia have a big influence in the ICC and will take PCB to the cleaners in the ICC dispute resolution committee where they will successfully influence the ICC to give a verdict against the PCB.

It's better to go down with a fight rather than not fighting at all.
 
It's not easy for the PCB. England, Australia have a big influence in the ICC and will take PCB to the cleaners in the ICC dispute resolution committee where they will successfully influence the ICC to give a verdict against the PCB.

Nothing is easy, but if you keep letting other Boards walk all over you and keep dancing to their tune and keep jumping up and down when they tell you to, then nothing will change and they will keep on doing this.
 
Pakistan should not tour England, Australia or New Zealand until they have completed a tour of Pakistan. If it means Pakistan don't play much cricket over the next few years then so be it.
 
I'm all for helping and supporting other Boards, but at the moment some Boards are taking advantage of PCB's generosity and softly softly approach.

PCB in return for their commitment and support is getting very little back from Boards, as we have seen today.

There has to be a change of tact and approach now or PCB will become a laughing stock.

Couldn't agree more. PCB bent over backwards for ECB when their country was ravaged with COVID, and then again this year with their whole squad positive. If ECB and NZC won't do anything in return, just stop touring them until they come to Pakistan. No more cricket with the Big 4 until these tours resume. South Africa, West Indies, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, etc. are more than enough. I would even suggest having a tri, quad or pent series that hardly even happen anymore. You could even invite minnows and host a mini-WC without the Big 4. There's so much we can do without them. If only PCB can take such initiative.
 
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Perhaps a stance could be that PCB appeal to the ICC that they are a huge cricketing nation and belong on the international scene and shouldn’t suffer due to global terrorism.

We should appeal to ICC that they contribute towards costs for use of UAE from money obtained from other nations. This stance could also help other nations in future such as Zimbabwe or Sri Lanka if they are in internal strife.

Ultimately we care about cricket but money is a huge factor here so let’s focus on the money and be accepting that current decisions are out of our control.
 
I'm all for helping and supporting other Boards, but at the moment some Boards are taking advantage of PCB's generosity and softly softly approach.

PCB in return for their commitment and support is getting very little back from Boards, as we have seen today.

There has to be a change of tact and approach now or PCB will become a laughing stock.

Until PCB are able to maximise and channel the commercial revenues and grow using that clout...we won't have clout.
 
Perhaps a stance could be that PCB appeal to the ICC that they are a huge cricketing nation and belong on the international scene and shouldn’t suffer due to global terrorism.

We should appeal to ICC that they contribute towards costs for use of UAE from money obtained from other nations. This stance could also help other nations in future such as Zimbabwe or Sri Lanka if they are in internal strife.

Ultimately we care about cricket but money is a huge factor here so let’s focus on the money and be accepting that current decisions are out of our control.

This is fine, well and good but you also don't want to make the likes of England, Australia, NZ too comfortable where they think that playing in the UAE is a permanent solution. Also in addition to the ICC pitching towards the cost, the UAE pitches need to be improved where the ball comes on to the bat, enough of the slow grindy wickets there.
 
This is fine, well and good but you also don't want to make the likes of England, Australia, NZ too comfortable where they think that playing in the UAE is a permanent solution. Also in addition to the ICC pitching towards the cost, the UAE pitches need to be improved where the ball comes on to the bat, enough of the slow grindy wickets there.


Sadly Pakistan cricket has zero control on the security situation or perceived situation in Pakistan.

I don’t know much about the UAE wickets other than they are dry. Is it possible to make them more seamer friendly?

ICC surely has a duty to assist Pakistan financially if losses are being incurred. This is where I would focus my efforts and hit other teams in their pocket as they will be contributors
 
Pakistan has no self-respect and western countries take advantage of it. And that's how they treat Pakistani citizens at their airports. Enough is enough. Pakistan should not tour these countries in the future. First, they are sending their C teams to insult you than letting them pull out from not playing any cricket at all. I will not be surprised if Australia send C team and let you insult again.
 
I think it makes sense for PCB to rule out playing overseas even if it means a few series being lost. If they agree to go to UAE for these series, it will become harder to convince the other boards (SA, Lanka , Windies etc) to come and tour Pak.

The govt could shoulder some of the financial burden
 
I think it makes sense for PCB to rule out playing overseas even if it means a few series being lost. If they agree to go to UAE for these series, it will become harder to convince the other boards (SA, Lanka , Windies etc) to come and tour Pak.

The govt could shoulder some of the financial burden

Agree there should not be any home matches played on neutral territories

No teams will tour pakistan for the next decade if that happens and all the money and time spent over the last 3 years or so will be wasted

They need to be firm in their stance and show some self respect if they want intnl cricket to return to pakistan Even if it means pakistan hardly plays any cricket

Short term losses will have to be made for long term gain
 
We need to strengthen our domestic cricket so it can be commercialized and generate some good revenue. Cause isolating ourselves would damage us financially. Or it would just mean playing Zim, SL, WI over and that isn't going to improve our cricket much either.
 
Well the big 3 and new Zealand don't even tour us and one of the big 3 india is a mortal enemy.

And even when we do play in those countries we get hammered more often than not and cause controversy that brings the game into disrepute .

Better off not going there at all and investing domestically I'd rather we have an extended psl alongside a hundred tournament that was very successful In England.

With rise of league crickets like ipl, the death warrant was already signed for intl cricket in particular bi lateral series.
 
They must act decisively now, they never benefited from their determined diplomacy and hard work which was undone in an instant by the most deplorable group of stooges in the world
 
No more tours to England, NZ, Australia, and India until they come to Pakistan. There's no need to deal with nations that are acting in bad faith.

Going to the UAE or using any other host nation should be out of the question.
 
Most disappointing part about this is that Pakistan is not even due to tour Australia/England/NZ anytime soon. In fact, they are all set to tour Pakistan next year which they obviously won't because the mysterious security threat will last until next year as well.

I am pretty sure England haven't even toured us once since 2016 even in UAE. Meanwhile, we have toured there in 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021. This is why you never do any favours for white people.

If none of these countries visit Pakistan, then they should not wonder to re-schedule the series at a different venue. Take the easy point and refuse to do the same. Only by taking a harder and tougher stance will we get countries to give Pakistan any respect.
 
Pakistan should do last minute pull outs citing welfare and wellbeing of its players in the future.

Give them their own medicine.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ramiz Raja "this is a lesson for us because we go out of our way to accommodate & pamper these sides when they visit us. But when we go there, we undergo strict quarantines & tolerate their admonishments. From now on we will only go as far as is in our interest" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvNZ?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvNZ</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvENG?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvENG</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1440225819729612805?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 21, 2021</a></blockquote>
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Just going off half cocked will only further harm Pakistan cricket. Such are the suggestions that Pakistan refuses to play games / series in retaliation.

If you refuse to play home games outside Pakistan, what happens if the visiting countries refuse to tour? Series cancelled, revenues lost for the PCB. You shoot yourselves in the foot.

If Pakistan refuses to tour other countries in retaliation, or cancels overseas series at the last minute, the end result is the same.

Other boards will make up for a single cancelled series with Pakistan, but for PCB it will be like taking on the world.

Sure it can be done. But you shouldn’t indulge in brinkmanship unless you can sustain it and be prepared to accept the consequences of your decision.
 
The problem is that no one takes PCB so-called generosity seriously.

PCB have tried hard to peddle the “we helped ECB during COVID” narrative, but the reality is that everyone knows that PCB was looking after its own interests.

PCB knew that it could not afford to cancel its tour to England because had they done, it would have killed any possibility of ECB touring Pakistan this year or any time soon.

Considering PCB’s desperate situation, it was a stunt that they could not afford to pull.

Hence, PCB is delusional to think that ECB owes them a favor. ECB, like everyone else, can see through the act.

PCB is in a desperate position right now, but it has to tread carefully because it can shoot itself in the foot and cause long-term damage.
 
The problem is that no one takes PCB so-called generosity seriously.

PCB have tried hard to peddle the “we helped ECB during COVID” narrative, but the reality is that everyone knows that PCB was looking after its own interests.

PCB knew that it could not afford to cancel its tour to England because had they done, it would have killed any possibility of ECB touring Pakistan this year or any time soon.

Considering PCB’s desperate situation, it was a stunt that they could not afford to pull.

Hence, PCB is delusional to think that ECB owes them a favor. ECB, like everyone else, can see through the act.

PCB is in a desperate position right now, but it has to tread carefully because it can shoot itself in the foot and cause long-term damage.

ECB is the only Big 3 board with whom PCB has good relations. Even Australia had reduced Pakistan to 2 tests.
 
ECB is the only Big 3 board with whom PCB has good relations. Even Australia had reduced Pakistan to 2 tests.

The last time Pakistan did not lose a Test match in Australia, Javed Miandad was still playing international cricket.

No team is as pathetic in any country as Pakistan in Australia. We are lucky that we still get invited even if it is for two Tests only.

ECB plays with Pakistan almost every year. That door is now shut on Pakistan because of our attitude.

It appears that we are now condemned to the lower half of the cricket fraternity and will only play with Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe and Ireland etc. perhaps that is what a poor team like Pakistan deserves after all.

You can throw South Africa into the mix as well because they are caught up in the second division for now due to the racism of CSA.
 
The problem is that no one takes PCB so-called generosity seriously.

PCB have tried hard to peddle the “we helped ECB during COVID” narrative, but the reality is that everyone knows that PCB was looking after its own interests.

PCB knew that it could not afford to cancel its tour to England because had they done, it would have killed any possibility of ECB touring Pakistan this year or any time soon.

Considering PCB’s desperate situation, it was a stunt that they could not afford to pull.

Hence, PCB is delusional to think that ECB owes them a favor. ECB, like everyone else, can see through the act.

PCB is in a desperate position right now, but it has to tread carefully because it can shoot itself in the foot and cause long-term damage.

By boot licking again and again you will be always their slaves and they will mistreat you again and again. Instead have some pride and cancelled those abroad tours. We will not loose much.
Big 4 can play among themselves again and again and fans will eventually bore with same teams playing with each other again and again.
 
Looks like Mamoon sees all white people are like some holy saints and worship them; brown people are the evil.
But even by worshipping and boot licking, you yourself will not get respect from them because of your skin.

N.B There are many white good people but not these so-called elite.
 
The last time Pakistan did not lose a Test match in Australia, Javed Miandad was still playing international cricket.

No team is as pathetic in any country as Pakistan in Australia. We are lucky that we still get invited even if it is for two Tests only.

ECB plays with Pakistan almost every year. That door is now shut on Pakistan because of our attitude.

It appears that we are now condemned to the lower half of the cricket fraternity and will only play with Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe and Ireland etc. perhaps that is what a poor team like Pakistan deserves after all.

You can throw South Africa into the mix as well because they are caught up in the second division for now due to the racism of CSA.

So we are already doomed. Why we can't stop playing with them? Nothing to loose
 
Just going off half cocked will only further harm Pakistan cricket. Such are the suggestions that Pakistan refuses to play games / series in retaliation.

If you refuse to play home games outside Pakistan, what happens if the visiting countries refuse to tour? Series cancelled, revenues lost for the PCB. You shoot yourselves in the foot.

If Pakistan refuses to tour other countries in retaliation, or cancels overseas series at the last minute, the end result is the same.

Other boards will make up for a single cancelled series with Pakistan, but for PCB it will be like taking on the world.

Sure it can be done. But you shouldn’t indulge in brinkmanship unless you can sustain it and be prepared to accept the consequences of your decision.

Theres no other way Sure pakistan can continue being kicked from pillar to post and playing their home games in the uae for the next decade They ll get fed a small tour on neutral territory every 5-6 years from the western countries but its cricket will continue to slide with no fans wstching no home games and interest and viewership falling.It will be a continuation of the slow death that it hss been experiencing over the last decade

Or it can make a stand and show the world it has some self respect They need to together with the other teams create a bloc against the others where they play each other regularly And if other western countries dont tour them they dont reciprocate either

Sure in the short term it will bleed heavily causing severe hardship and incurr losses But cricket will continue at home and with fans watching their heros live so will interest in the sport Hopefully the economy will pick up with peace in the region The pcb in the meantime can create a successful and strong domestic model where the quality cricket is played and quality cricketers are churned out

There no other way if pakistan doesnt want its cricket to die
 
Theres no other way Sure pakistan can continue being kicked from pillar to post and playing their home games in the uae for the next decade They ll get fed a small tour on neutral territory every 5-6 years from the western countries but its cricket will continue to slide with no fans wstching no home games and interest and viewership falling.It will be a continuation of the slow death that it hss been experiencing over the last decade

Or it can make a stand and show the world it has some self respect They need to together with the other teams create a bloc against the others where they play each other regularly And if other western countries dont tour them they dont reciprocate either

Sure in the short term it will bleed heavily causing severe hardship and incurr losses But cricket will continue at home and with fans watching their heros live so will interest in the sport Hopefully the economy will pick up with peace in the region The pcb in the meantime can create a successful and strong domestic model where the quality cricket is played and quality cricketers are churned out

There no other way if pakistan doesnt want its cricket to die

I disagree with your analysis, but I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong. You could be bang on the target, for all we know.

But if Pakistan want to go down this ‘play hardball’ road then the PCB has to get a guarantee from the Pakistan government of its total financial and moral support. This would mean significant funding to make up for lost revenues (not sure what ICC rules are in this regard).

Also once committed, GOP can’t in the future sacrifice PCB on the altar of ‘larger relations’ with England/ Australia. In short do a 180 degree turn, agree to tour/ play in the UAE, and basically give up just when the PCB has taken a hard stance. Everyone then ends up looking like fools.

My personal opinion - that kind of systemic resilience doesn’t exist in Pakistan (or most nations).

Another factor is the passage of time. In a few weeks everyone anyway would have moved on, voices of compromise will become stronger, new theories will emerge, newer controversies to discuss, and the angry cacophony will subside. It always does. In fact I expect a counter opinion to emerge within Pakistan that will start blaming PCB! Meanwhile the PCB would have locked itself into a hard line stance, a reversal from which would be embarrassing. So there’s that to think about.
 
I hope PCB can realise for their own financial benefit that they are a major player in cricketing world. PCB is neither small in size or quality of their cricket that they continue to bear harsh treatments from Big 3 + NZ. Arguably, PCB has capabilities to generate enough wealth from cricket that likes of Eng and Aus makes. All they need is a strong administration and correct channel to market their product as their customer base is in millions with the others dont have apart from India obviously.

PCB should absolutely say "no" in clear and direct terms to hosting test matches abroad. If the country cannot tour Pakistan currently then fill the gap with a buffer team like WI, Ban, SRL or SA. At best Pakistan would not play home test matches for the next 4-5 years or so but after that they would come in an play test matches here.

I hope PCB can grow a spine this time around and say no to overseas test matches.
 
I'm angry on behalf of Pakistan.

At least India is the devil you know. But what New Zealand and England did is severely disappointing.
 
Pakistan should not tour any of those countries who refuse to tour them, until such time they tour Pakistan first.
 
Nothing is easy, but if you keep letting other Boards walk all over you and keep dancing to their tune and keep jumping up and down when they tell you to, then nothing will change and they will keep on doing this.

Totally agree. Nothing comes for free in this life. The stansce the PM also taking would hurt Pakistan alot in the shorter term, but this is how nations learn to find solutions and get up with honour in tact. They will come hard at Pakistan from all corners, have no doubt about that and this will test the nations character big time.

Stop listning to some wannabees here and everywhere else and stand firm on your own feet. If your intentions are pure, in sha Allah you will succeeed.
 
The problem is that no one takes PCB so-called generosity seriously.

PCB have tried hard to peddle the “we helped ECB during COVID” narrative, but the reality is that everyone knows that PCB was looking after its own interests.

PCB knew that it could not afford to cancel its tour to England because had they done, it would have killed any possibility of ECB touring Pakistan this year or any time soon.

Considering PCB’s desperate situation, it was a stunt that they could not afford to pull.

Hence, PCB is delusional to think that ECB owes them a favor. ECB, like everyone else, can see through the act.

PCB is in a desperate position right now, but it has to tread carefully because it can shoot itself in the foot and cause long-term damage.

Accommodating and helping out a country during Covid was still a big thing for the ECB, during the height of the pandemic at that. Even if it served Pakistan's interests as well because they were looking at similar response from ECB in return there is no shame in that. Yet you are calling it a stunt. That's just pathetic.
 
Accommodating and helping out a country during Covid was still a big thing for the ECB, during the height of the pandemic at that. Even if it served Pakistan's interests as well because they were looking at similar response from ECB in return there is no shame in that. Yet you are calling it a stunt. That's just pathetic.

Its futile to talking to someone who has one track mind. ;-)
 
The problem is that no one takes PCB so-called generosity seriously.

PCB have tried hard to peddle the “we helped ECB during COVID” narrative, but the reality is that everyone knows that PCB was looking after its own interests.

PCB knew that it could not afford to cancel its tour to England because had they done, it would have killed any possibility of ECB touring Pakistan this year or any time soon.

Considering PCB’s desperate situation, it was a stunt that they could not afford to pull.

Hence, PCB is delusional to think that ECB owes them a favor. ECB, like everyone else, can see through the act.

PCB is in a desperate position right now, but it has to tread carefully because it can shoot itself in the foot and cause long-term damage.

Completely false narrative. The ECB desperately needed the £80 mill the Pak tour was bringing them. If the PCB was looking after its own interests, they would have had the ECB sign a contract with both financial and time commitments for a tour to Pakistan. The PCB did not do this.

And be under no illusion, Pkaistan and the ECB's 3rd or 4th biggest tours (after Aus, India and how one places SA). The PCB can use this clout to refuse any future tours untill ECB tour Pakistan for a full test, T20 and ODI series.
 
I'm all for helping and supporting other Boards, but at the moment some Boards are taking advantage of PCB's generosity and softly softly approach.

PCB in return for their commitment and support is getting very little back from Boards, as we have seen today.

There has to be a change of tact and approach now or PCB will become a laughing stock.

Pakistan should refuse to play their home series in any other country. It is a joke now.
 
Pakistan helped England in their hour of need and all they received in return was a slap in the face


Writing for Isport, Saj explains why by cancelling the upcoming tour, England have turned their back on a country that has done so much to help them over the past 18 months.


PRI_200904615-640x360.jpg


The world of sport has taken a beating from the Covid-19 pandemic as events in all corners of the globe have been cancelled or postponed with devastating effects on sporting bodies and athletes.

The England & Wales Cricket Board has not been immune and last year it was facing up to the potential of a hugely damaging summer without any international cricket.

Thankfully for the ECB, the West Indies and Pakistan stepped up to help their old friends in their hour of need. Both sides put aside fears of international travel at a time when no vaccinations were available and the treatment for Covid-19 infections was still in its infancy.

Global death rates due to the pandemic were hitting new highs with the UK particularly badly affected.

Against the backdrop of those health and safety fears, players from the Caribbean and Pakistan brought international cricket to English grounds last year – along with the millions of pounds in sponsorship and broadcast revenue for the ECB.

At the time, the ECB was gracious in acknowledging the debt of gratitude it owed to both touring nations but did not make any firm commitments in response.

The PCB also refused to hold England to any contractual commitment in terms of a quid pro quo arrangement, asking them merely to “do the right thing” and tour Pakistan at a later stage.

The consensus seemed to be that Pakistan’s sacrifices to bring cricket to English shores would be answered in kind in due course.

Pakistan’s generosity, at a time when most cricketers were telling their respective boards about mental pressures affecting their lives and game, did not stop there however.

Earlier this year Pakistan toured England for a second time during the pandemic to provide the ECB with another chance to fill its coffers in a summer where England was already hosting India.

Full-strength Pakistan teams took to the field to provide the best possible entertainment for live and television audiences in both T20Is and ODIs.

The Pakistan effort was even more commendable given the outbreak of Covid-19 in the England camp at the start of the tour.

Many other teams would have taken that as a good excuse to walk away, but Pakistan made sure to complete the series without troubling their hosts.

Following those gestures of goodwill, there were high hopes in Pakistan that a new dawn was set to begin this autumn after years of the country being treated as a “no go” area for Western cricket teams.

As well as a tour from the New Zealand team, England’s men were scheduled to play two T20Is in preparation for their T20 World Cup campaign in the UAE and Oman while the women’s side were due to play a series of T20s and ODIs.

A security assessment for England’s tours was carried out alongside New Zealand and a “clean bill of health” from a security perspective was initially issued. Then the mood changed last week. New Zealand, based upon warnings of an allegedly imminent terror attack, decided to cancel their tour almost a week after landing in Pakistan and headed for Islamabad airport guarded by the same security forces that they felt would not be able to protect them.

Then the ECB claimed the mental health of its players would be affected by playing two T20Is in Pakistan despite being in the country for just a few days, which feels like nothing more than a slap in the face.

England owed Pakistan a favour after what the PCB had done for them over the past 18 months, but instead they have turned their back on a board and a country that has been a huge supporter and one which was reeling after New Zealand’s cancellation.

As PCB chairman Ramiz Raja put it: “Whatever sacrifices we made last season to help England during Covid-19 appear to have gone to waste so we have learnt a harsh lesson.”

The PCB has indeed learnt some harsh lessons these past few days and has been badly let down by two countries it viewed as friends.

These are tough days for Pakistan cricket, but this isn’t the first time that its resolve has been tested. If there is one thing that can be guaranteed it is Pakistan’s ability to survive.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/cricket/pakistan-england-tour-cancelled-slap-in-the-face-1209706
 
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The one positive for NZ due to the forced cancellation is they now get added to the Big 3 and are now part of the Big 4 :D
 
Pakistan should ask these countries to host them in neutral location as well if they don’t tour Pakistan. Simple as that. Cite security as the reason.
 
Completely false narrative. The ECB desperately needed the £80 mill the Pak tour was bringing them. If the PCB was looking after its own interests, they would have had the ECB sign a contract with both financial and time commitments for a tour to Pakistan. The PCB did not do this.

And be under no illusion, Pkaistan and the ECB's 3rd or 4th biggest tours (after Aus, India and how one places SA). The PCB can use this clout to refuse any future tours untill ECB tour Pakistan for a full test, T20 and ODI series.

If PCB would have asked ECB to sign a binding contract, ECB would have told PCB to get lost.

West Indies toured as well. Someone could have filled in for PCB as well. Not many boards have to balls to say no to a tour of England.
 
Beggars can't be choosers,

Or PCB will end up only playing Zimbabwe/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh
 
Accommodating and helping out a country during Covid was still a big thing for the ECB, during the height of the pandemic at that. Even if it served Pakistan's interests as well because they were looking at similar response from ECB in return there is no shame in that. Yet you are calling it a stunt. That's just pathetic.

He calls it a stunt, yet compares it to how all the other board work as well, i.e. looking after their own interest... but then goes on to say that ECB looked through it even though they benefitted from it through a significant stream of revenue.

The guy is as delusional as they come and can't string a coherent argument to save his life.
 
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Beggars can't be choosers,

Or PCB will end up only playing Zimbabwe/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh

Doesn't really matter. Overseas tours do not have much benefit for Pakistan any way unless they are reciprocated.
 
Doesn't really matter. Overseas tours do not have much benefit for Pakistan any way unless they are reciprocated.

With the precedent set by ECB and NZC, even countries like Zimbabwe etc will ask for nothing short of presidential VIP security and benefits/incentives in order to go to Pakistan.
 
With the precedent set by ECB and NZC, even countries like Zimbabwe etc will ask for nothing short of presidential VIP security and benefits/incentives in order to go to Pakistan.

And Zimbabwe should get nothing less. Aren’t they humans? Are their lives worth less than those from coward Kiwis?
 
With the precedent set by ECB and NZC, even countries like Zimbabwe etc will ask for nothing short of presidential VIP security and benefits/incentives in order to go to Pakistan.

Okay. How will our stance towards overseas tour affect that in any way?

Weird post.
 
Pakistan has no self-respect and western countries take advantage of it. And that's how they treat Pakistani citizens at their airports. Enough is enough. Pakistan should not tour these countries in the future. First, they are sending their C teams to insult you than letting them pull out from not playing any cricket at all. I will not be surprised if Australia send C team and let you insult again.

The "C" Australia team might very well beat Pakistan.
 
And Zimbabwe should get nothing less. Aren’t they humans? Are their lives worth less than those from coward Kiwis?

Nice for PCB to fork out more for everyone else and beg on their knees for Zim etc to go tour,
 
ECB and CA don't care though. England and Australia wouldn't mind if Ashes was the only form of cricket that existed. They basically played only each other for 70 years.
 
If PCB would have asked ECB to sign a binding contract, ECB would have told PCB to get lost.

West Indies toured as well. Someone could have filled in for PCB as well. Not many boards have to balls to say no to a tour of England.

As per usual you enormously underestimate the market power of Pakistan cricket. How many times does one need to explain it to you? We might as well leave you in your hard-heartedness, so I am speaking here simply for the sake of knowing the facts have been laid out.

1. Pakistan cricket has market power. Repeat, Pakistan cricket has market power. If it did not have market power, the ICC would let India off the hook in playing them in every ICC tournament. They cannot because that one match is enormously lucrative. In the 2019 CWC the Pakistan vs. India match had 373 million unique viewers. Care to know how many people watched the final? 15.4 million. That's right, a group match generated more viewers than the final, and that's with the English hosts as one of the teams. There is a level of consistency with this as well. 400 million watched the 2017 CT final, and 324 million watched the group game in the same tournament. And of course, the 2011 semifinal was watched by 495 million people. All of this can be found on Cricinfo, if you're wondering.

2. Pakistan touring England benefits both Pakistan and England. The T20s last year drew 2.8 million viewers in the UK alone. It's not clear how many it drew in Pakistan but I suspect it was a strong number. Of course, Pakistan touring ensures sold out arenas as we saw earlier this year. This benefits England's county coffers as they cannot count on India or Australia to tour yearly.

SO what will happen now?
Firstly, as it was glaringly made obvious b y the British High Commission that threat levels did not change-Pakistan is sure to get compensation from NZC. The amount is the only question.

Pakistan has enormous leverage-by simply refusing to tour. What is the ECB going to do? Pakistan has been repeatedly proven safe, and since you seem to worship the British, then you should take the BHC reports at face value and agree that risk was not a factor.

Pakistan can also, in this scenario, simply invite teams they know will tour. I've made this argument previously and it seems more relevant than ever now-create your own block. Invite other teams to tour. Hold a mini-T20WC, and heck, offer to reach out and invite Chinese cricket to be a part of it-even if they send Hong Kong cricket as their side. Pakistan was responsible for getting Afghanistan cricket off the ground, and if you globalize to China-the influence of India, ECB, and CA will be reduced in the long run as they have one more economic power to deal with. Sold out cricket matches between Pakistan and China in the long run won't hurt either. WICB, Zimbabwe, South Africa, and SLC should be played so often that the Big 3 will have no one to fill their cricketing calendars aside from each other.

And it will work.
 
I'm all for helping and supporting other Boards, but at the moment some Boards are taking advantage of PCB's generosity and softly softly approach.

PCB in return for their commitment and support is getting very little back from Boards, as we have seen today.

There has to be a change of tact and approach now or PCB will become a laughing stock.

But @Saj, the PCB is not the problem here. It's not their fault.

The geopolitics has changed in the last month. Suddenly Pakistan is wedded to Taliban Afghanistan once again, and now Australia, England and the World Test Champions have joined India in distancing themselves.

How do you take a Tough Stance once the Big Three have all started to distance themselves from you?

Pakistan cricket is in the same situation as a jilted boyfriend who had behaved really well, but whose girlfriend has dumped him because she doesn't like him any more. What are you going to do? Stalk her? Threaten her on Facebook?

The PCB has no cards to play, because the PCB has done nothing wrong.

And taking a Tough Stance will just make other potential suitors keep away.
 
Couldn't agree more. PCB bent over backwards for ECB when their country was ravaged with COVID, and then again this year with their whole squad positive. If ECB and NZC won't do anything in return, just stop touring them until they come to Pakistan. No more cricket with the Big 4 until these tours resume. South Africa, West Indies, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, etc. are more than enough. I would even suggest having a tri, quad or pent series that hardly even happen anymore. You could even invite minnows and host a mini-WC without the Big 4. There's so much we can do without them. If only PCB can take such initiative.

This will be disastrous, as they will get the tours in return by India with much bigger financial banana, this is what indian lobby led by J Shah ( Amit Shah- RSS BJP- master mind of Gujarat Riots) is waiting for.

Pakistan will further go into isolation, perhaps it would be best to get much stronger reassurances
 
But @Saj, the PCB is not the problem here. It's not their fault.

The geopolitics has changed in the last month. Suddenly Pakistan is wedded to Taliban Afghanistan once again, and now Australia, England and the World Test Champions have joined India in distancing themselves.

How do you take a Tough Stance once the Big Three have all started to distance themselves from you?

Pakistan cricket is in the same situation as a jilted boyfriend who had behaved really well, but whose girlfriend has dumped him because she doesn't like him any more. What are you going to do? Stalk her? Threaten her on Facebook?

The PCB has no cards to play, because the PCB has done nothing wrong.

And taking a Tough Stance will just make other potential suitors keep away.

I find it ironic that Pakistan is being treated like a pariah or the crazy ex-Boyfriend, according to you, when numerous EU Foreign Ministers have been in Pakistan over the last month to seek its support. Moreover, the entirety of the West including states, NGO's, IGO's and MNC's have sought Pakistan's help in evacuations from Afghanistan. A mere google search will reveal how much they have lauded Pakistan over its efforts.

And yet, Pakistan is the pariah state?
 
I find it ironic that Pakistan is being treated like a pariah or the crazy ex-Boyfriend, according to you, when numerous EU Foreign Ministers have been in Pakistan over the last month to seek its support. Moreover, the entirety of the West including states, NGO's, IGO's and MNC's have sought Pakistan's help in evacuations from Afghanistan. A mere google search will reveal how much they have lauded Pakistan over its efforts.

And yet, Pakistan is the pariah state?

Why did England and New Zealand cancel their tours?
 
Why did England and New Zealand cancel their tours?

I understand their reasons for cancelling the tours but I have a very different interpretation of it from you.

As opposed to Pakistan being married into the conflict, I see it as them not taking any risks. They received threats, albeit minor ones, but threats nevertheless, and they didn't wanna take a chance. They will send their risk evaluation teams over the next year to determine whether Pakistan is safe to play in or not. I don't think that there is an interpretation that Pakistan is a rogue state that has completely lost it. Were it that, they would not have toured in the first place and called it off as soon as the Taliban gained control.
 
As per usual you enormously underestimate the market power of Pakistan cricket. How many times does one need to explain it to you? We might as well leave you in your hard-heartedness, so I am speaking here simply for the sake of knowing the facts have been laid out.

1. Pakistan cricket has market power. Repeat, Pakistan cricket has market power. If it did not have market power, the ICC would let India off the hook in playing them in every ICC tournament. They cannot because that one match is enormously lucrative. In the 2019 CWC the Pakistan vs. India match had 373 million unique viewers. Care to know how many people watched the final? 15.4 million. That's right, a group match generated more viewers than the final, and that's with the English hosts as one of the teams. There is a level of consistency with this as well. 400 million watched the 2017 CT final, and 324 million watched the group game in the same tournament. And of course, the 2011 semifinal was watched by 495 million people. All of this can be found on Cricinfo, if you're wondering.

2. Pakistan touring England benefits both Pakistan and England. The T20s last year drew 2.8 million viewers in the UK alone. It's not clear how many it drew in Pakistan but I suspect it was a strong number. Of course, Pakistan touring ensures sold out arenas as we saw earlier this year. This benefits England's county coffers as they cannot count on India or Australia to tour yearly.

SO what will happen now?
Firstly, as it was glaringly made obvious b y the British High Commission that threat levels did not change-Pakistan is sure to get compensation from NZC. The amount is the only question.

Pakistan has enormous leverage-by simply refusing to tour. What is the ECB going to do? Pakistan has been repeatedly proven safe, and since you seem to worship the British, then you should take the BHC reports at face value and agree that risk was not a factor.

Pakistan can also, in this scenario, simply invite teams they know will tour. I've made this argument previously and it seems more relevant than ever now-create your own block. Invite other teams to tour. Hold a mini-T20WC, and heck, offer to reach out and invite Chinese cricket to be a part of it-even if they send Hong Kong cricket as their side. Pakistan was responsible for getting Afghanistan cricket off the ground, and if you globalize to China-the influence of India, ECB, and CA will be reduced in the long run as they have one more economic power to deal with. Sold out cricket matches between Pakistan and China in the long run won't hurt either. WICB, Zimbabwe, South Africa, and SLC should be played so often that the Big 3 will have no one to fill their cricketing calendars aside from each other.

And it will work.

You have ignored the context of this discussion. [MENTION=154259]mastimasti[/MENTION] claimed that if PCB did not want to do ECB a favor, they would have forced them to sign a binding contract last year that would have legally committed England to tour Pakistan in exchange for Pakistan touring England during the summer of 2020.

That is clearly an extremely delusional opinion because ECB will never allow PCB to bully and blackmail them.

PCB also know that there is no possible way that they can legally force ECB or any board to tour Pakistan.

Hence, the reality is that PCB did not do any favors on ECB by touring last year; they were simply looking after their own interests because they that opting out would pretty much kill any chances of England touring Pakistan any time soon.

Pakistan might be a big market and Pakistani tours do bring revenue to England, but the fact is that PCB is a weak board with no leverage. No one really gives two hoots about us, especially the powerful boards like ECB.

If they did, they would not have humiliated PCB in this fashion and shown them their place.

Pakistani fans need stop overestimating the importance of PCB as a cricket board as the importance of Pakistan as a country.

As a cricket board, we have no leverage on the big boards; as a country, we have a terrible reputation and zero credibility. We are known all over the world as liars and a country that it is always supporting extremism.

If Pakistan refuses to tour England, ECB will find alternatives and the show will go on. Besides, Pakistan is not some top team. We are rubbish team with zero talent.

The reserve team of the England reserve team whitewashed our so-called first choice team 3-0 few months ago. It was a complete waste of time for ECB.

Then you have countries like Australia where the last time we did not lose a Test match, Javed Miandad was still playing international cricket.

Pakistan touring Australia is not only a source of embarrassment for Pakistan but also for Australia. They make all the arrangements and the fans buy all the tickets just to witness the third certainty of time after death and taxes - Pakistan getting humiliated Down Under.

India of course does not want to play us and the Indian government has done a huge Ts of on Pakistan cricket by refusing to allow BCCI to play bilateral cricket with us.

Regular bilateral cricket between the two teams over the past 6-7 years would have been enough for the average Pakistani fan to lose interest in cricket.

Getting pounded by India home and away every two years would have been too much for their pride and dignity.

PCB is in a helpless situation and acting tough and “showing eyes” to ECB, NZC, CA etc. will not bring in any positive results. If PCB boycotts these countries and plays the second string sides only, it would only be PCB’s loss. However, perhaps that is what our mediocre teams deserves after all.
 
Ye,s because you know more than Atherton, Dobell and Oborne. You truly are a genius of our time. Please tell me, what is the source of your unlimited knowledge?

I am a genius but it doesn’t take one to figure this out. The proof lies in the pudding.

Look at how ECB have humiliated PCB without giving two hoots about the potential consequences, ramifications and backlash by PCB.

ECB have shown how little regard it has for PCB.

This clearly proves that PCB has no leverage on ECB. Do you really think PCB could have blackmailed and bullied ECB into signing a binding contract that would have legally committed ECB to send the England team to Pakistan?

Not in a million years. ECB would have found an alternative and told PCB to go for a hike had they tried to pull off a stunt like that.

Atherton, Dobell, Oborne and other Pakistan cricket cheerleaders are irrelevant to this discussion. They are not part of ECB. However, even if they were, nothing would be different.
 
I am a genius but it doesn’t take one to figure this out. The proof lies in the pudding.

Look at how ECB have humiliated PCB without giving two hoots about the potential consequences, ramifications and backlash by PCB.

ECB have shown how little regard it has for PCB.

This clearly proves that PCB has no leverage on ECB. Do you really think PCB could have blackmailed and bullied ECB into signing a binding contract that would have legally committed ECB to send the England team to Pakistan?

Not in a million years. ECB would have found an alternative and told PCB to go for a hike had they tried to pull off a stunt like that.

Atherton, Dobell, Oborne and other Pakistan cricket cheerleaders are irrelevant to this discussion. They are not part of ECB. However, even if they were, nothing would be different.

Sad but true
 
Ye,s because you know more than Atherton, Dobell and Oborne. You truly are a genius of our time. Please tell me, what is the source of your unlimited knowledge?

Atherton, Dobell and Oborne are all terrific fellows who each have a well-known soft spot for Pakistan cricket. (LOL, I identify with all three of them!)

But the problem is not the people who support Pakistan cricket.
 
I am a genius but it doesn’t take one to figure this out. The proof lies in the pudding.

Look at how ECB have humiliated PCB without giving two hoots about the potential consequences, ramifications and backlash by PCB.

ECB have shown how little regard it has for PCB.

This clearly proves that PCB has no leverage on ECB. Do you really think PCB could have blackmailed and bullied ECB into signing a binding contract that would have legally committed ECB to send the England team to Pakistan?

Not in a million years. ECB would have found an alternative and told PCB to go for a hike had they tried to pull off a stunt like that.

Atherton, Dobell, Oborne and other Pakistan cricket cheerleaders are irrelevant to this discussion. They are not part of ECB. However, even if they were, nothing would be different.

You've just been proven wrong by the ECB itself, who last year stated that if the cricketing summer does not go ahead, they lose 80 million pounds.

I think you have lost the plot...
 
Atherton, Dobell and Oborne are all terrific fellows who each have a well-known soft spot for Pakistan cricket. (LOL, I identify with all three of them!)

But the problem is not the people who support Pakistan cricket.

I know who they are, but if you review my posts they are to do with our esteemed, many times winner of POTW (quality posts all!) Mr Mamoona who states the PCB does not have any leverage...yet they did last year and they will again in the future. He also rubbished claims that the ECB needed Pak to tour last year :sammy...when the ECB themselves and English journalists have stated the exact opposite.

May you kindly inform me as to where Mamoona receives information that no other individual on earth does?
 
The doormat policy has to change.

A Board asks Pakistan to tour and they say when sir, yes sir, this has to change.
 
You've just been proven wrong by the ECB itself, who last year stated that if the cricketing summer does not go ahead, they lose 80 million pounds.

I think you have lost the plot...

If PCB had any leverage on ECB, ECB would not have embarrassed PCB in this fashion. The way ECB humiliated PCB proves that they don’t give a hoot about PCB.

If PCB would have tried to blackmail ECB into a legally binding contract in order to legally force them to tour Pakistan, ECB would have told PCB to get lost. They would have found an alternative.
 
We are always falling over backwards to support everything that moves. Over hospitality, kindness and red carpet treatment for any foreigner that visits Pak. No one respects a desperate board always fighting over other people's leftovers. PCB's attitude is the problem itself. If NZ phoned PCB today offering to play a few one day's at their place we would forget about the recent fiasco and agree to it without any second thoughts. PCB is rightfully disrespected for a reason.
 
No relationship with India, burnt your bridges with NZ, England and soon to be AUS. Already made comments about Zim and Bangladesh. Rambo's doing what India couldn't in years all in his first week!
 
The doormat policy has to change.

A Board asks Pakistan to tour and they say when sir, yes sir, this has to change.

The ECB is always transactional in its dealings.

But the PCB should try to maintain the relationship: recent events mean that the days of England inviting Pakistan for 2 Tests followed by India for 5 are over. If they work on the relationship it should be back to 3 and 3.
 
I understand their reasons for cancelling the tours but I have a very different interpretation of it from you.

As opposed to Pakistan being married into the conflict, I see it as them not taking any risks. They received threats, albeit minor ones, but threats nevertheless, and they didn't wanna take a chance. They will send their risk evaluation teams over the next year to determine whether Pakistan is safe to play in or not. I don't think that there is an interpretation that Pakistan is a rogue state that has completely lost it. Were it that, they would not have toured in the first place and called it off as soon as the Taliban gained control.

+1

This interpretation that no one will tour Pakistan hardly makes any sense. Yes, it opted to support the Taliban and it will have consequences, but if things are calm in the future then I think that teams will tour. The consequences will be economic in nature and lack of western investment in Pakistan, but stopping cricket seems far-fetched to me.

If it was just a Taliban issue then NZ wouldn't have even gone to Pakistan.
 
For people concerned about comments, it doesn't matter. BCCI literally slapped ECB and left England but ECB couldn't even dare to ask because they're scared to lose $$. Matter of fact is that India is bringing the most $$ to cricket and that's why other boards are willing to bend for them.

National cricket would die in a decade properly and franchise will take over since every one is interested in playing leagues. Similar to soccer where very few national tours and rest is all leagues.

Focus on developing Domestic cricket and franchise with more teams and international presence. May be like have Associate team there which compromise of players from all over the world and keep on expanding the pool.

Otherwise, you'll get screwed over again and again.
 
Looks like Mamoon sees all white people are like some holy saints and worship them; brown people are the evil.
But even by worshipping and boot licking, you yourself will not get respect from them because of your skin.

N.B There are many white good people but not these so-called elite.

Why make this about skin color & race when the most powerful of the big 3 is a country named India?

It clearly has nothing to do with skin-color at all, so why push such dark & controversial theories?
 
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If PCB had any leverage on ECB, ECB would not have embarrassed PCB in this fashion. The way ECB humiliated PCB proves that they don’t give a hoot about PCB.

If PCB would have tried to blackmail ECB into a legally binding contract in order to legally force them to tour Pakistan, ECB would have told PCB to get lost. They would have found an alternative.

So you want PCB to apologize to ECB because they wanted them to tour Pakistan and play mere 2 T20s, compensate few millions $$$ and keep boot licking like previous PCB bosses like Zaka and Sethi.
 
Why make this about skin color & race when the most powerful of the big 3 is a country named India?

It clearly has nothing to do with skin-color at all, so why push such dark & controversial theories?

Pretty sure they see India's skin colour as green.

I'm not sure why you think it has nothing to do with skin-colour. These countries always see middle east countries as a bunch of terrorists countries and why they look for any reason to pull out of Pakistan/Bangladesh tours. There are clearly stereo types associated with skin colour and it's pretty clear when you listen to the speak as well -- any attack involving a brown person is a "terrorist attack" whereas a black person will get referred to as a "thug".

Even if ECB isn't pulling out due to that reason, it's the notion of perceived threat being significantly larger than actual threat and how that gets associated with skin colour.
 
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