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Jason Holder | Can he walk into every nations' playing XI?

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Saj

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Nerves of steel.

Looks a real talent doesn't he. Looks a very decent batsman and if he can maybe work on his bowling a bit more he could in theory become a genuine all rounder for the West Indies in all formats.
 
He is a bowler first if im not wrong?
 
He has impressed with the bat more so than the ball in recent times.
 
Doesn't bottle under pressure with bat.
Doesn't run away from challenge even if guy like AB is batting berserk.
Surely a much admirable character.
Will end up better all-rounder than Bravo, Pollard, Russell and Sammy.
 
Superb Knock from him, I expected him to crumble under pressure. A fine WI prospect indeed.
 
A century to save a test match in the final innings.

That's a seriously big accomplishment.

More importantly, none of the English bowlers bothered him, he scored effortlessly, and soaked up balls when needed.
 
Congrats on the century and match saving/face saving innings. Well done Ramdin and co.
 
Before this outstanding knock, his highest FC score was 52.

Yes the pitch was flat but he came out to a pressure situation and saved the Test for his team. Credit to him.
 
I made a thread back when AB crunched him in the World Cup.

He shouldn't have bowled those two overs but it was obvious that he was the kind of player who puts his hand up to take responsibility for the team and do what needs to be done.

He failed in that world cup match but he succeeded here.

He has the right attitude for international cricket
 
Convict said:
I made a thread back when AB crunched him in the World Cup.

He shouldn't have bowled those two overs but it was obvious that he was the kind of player who puts his hand up to take responsibility for the team and do what needs to be done.

He failed in that world cup match but he succeeded here.

He has the right attitude for international cricket
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POTW.

Everything about Holder is right.

He is a thoroughly admirable young cricketer, a role model for youngsters.

And above all he is that pride in his region which the mercenaries just don't have.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Would love to see this special talent in the IPL.
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You know, this is why I wish there was a dedicated IPL window when the best players could play IPL without betraying their countries. The ICL had a release clause in Shane Bond's contract which recognised that national duty came first.

Spring has been the West Indian domestic international season for decades and early summer is the start of the English domestic season. I would be all for an IPL window that did not take place between 1 April and 1 September, because the West Indies needs all the help that it can get and the tour of England should be a major landmark for everyone, but for the likes of McCullum, Boult, Southee and Williamson this year it will be ruined by a lack of preparation.
 
Always thought he was a decent bowler, but I don't know from where he's producing these types of batting performances. I recall he was the reason WI tied that ODI game against us in 2013. Was calm under pressure in that game and did so again in this test. Just what you'd want from a young captain.
 
Junaids said:
You know, this is why I wish there was a dedicated IPL window when the best players could play IPL without betraying their countries. The ICL had a release clause in Shane Bond's contract which recognised that national duty came first.

Spring has been the West Indian domestic international season for decades and early summer is the start of the English domestic season. I would be all for an IPL window that did not take place between 1 April and 1 September, because the West Indies needs all the help that it can get and the tour of England should be a major landmark for everyone, but for the likes of McCullum, Boult, Southee and Williamson this year it will be ruined by a lack of preparation.
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Betraying the country? Cricketers are not soldiers. And they have the right to seek employment anywhere just like all of us. IPL should not have a dedicated window, because that is not the only T20 league. Let there be more T20 leagues, because IPL itself cannot accommodate every talented cricketer. I wish to see Jason Holder get a chance to play in the IPL, so that he can have a stable financial health. Not like those talented cricketers from west indies who entertained people like you (who would be the first one to call them traitors if they played in a domestic league), but could not earn money they deserve.

This quote from Tino Best sums it up.
It's a little sad, but I can't go to the supermarket and say that my name is Tino Best, I bowl at 90 miles an hour, I want $400 in groceries.
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Wish the ingrate fans would think about the players too instead of calling them betrayers.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Betraying the country? Cricketers are not soldiers. And they have the right to seek employment anywhere just like all of us. IPL should not have a dedicated window, because that is not the only T20 league. Let there be more T20 leagues, because IPL itself cannot accommodate every talented cricketer. I wish to see Jason Holder get a chance to play in the IPL, so that he can have a stable financial health. Not like those talented cricketers from west indies who entertained people like you (who would be the first one to call them traitors if they played in a domestic league), but could not earn money they deserve.

This quote from Tino Best sums it up. Wish the ingrate fans would think about the players too instead of calling them betrayers.
Click to expand...

In football, if your country selects you during an international window you cannot play for your club, even if you claim to be injured like Chris Gayle currently is.

IPL is the only T20 competition which seeks to poach players from national duty. I don't like the idea of special treatment for the IPL, but given that it does already poach players from national duty, I say find 4-6 weeks in the year and make it IPL-only.

That's a compromise. Not one that I like, but one that I'd be prepared to make.
 
It's an eye opener for someone in charge - in 2010 U19 WC two of the best players were ...... one is Jason Holder - at 23 is WI ODI Captain for WC, got his 1st Test 100 & probably someone a leading bowling all-rounder for next 12 years. Another one was a Pakistani young man with nerves of steel with bat - can hit the deck hard with ball from 6'3"-4" structure, & fields brilliantly. 5 years & counting - still waiting for his A team chances.

30 years back, Hammad Azam would have been snapped up by some County directly from that U19 WC - 4 seasons in County system, by now he would have been a leading all-rounder in world. That little change in context is actually why PAK is going through a "talent drought", while in 1970s & 80s the likes of Imran, Javed, Akram, Zaheer or Waquars were born like palms - you shake the tree & 2/3 'll drop at your feet - haar mohhollah, haar street - talent hi talent.........
 
There are very few current West Indies players I have any amount of respect for, Jason Holder is definitely among them.
 
Junaids said:
In football, if your country selects you during an international window you cannot play for your club, even if you claim to be injured like Chris Gayle currently is.

IPL is the only T20 competition which seeks to poach players from national duty. I don't like the idea of special treatment for the IPL, but given that it does already poach players from national duty, I say find 4-6 weeks in the year and make it IPL-only.

That's a compromise. Not one that I like, but one that I'd be prepared to make.
Click to expand...

IPL does not poach. It requires a NOC from the respective board (which I think should be done away with). For too long cricketers have been held hostage by their boards. Now that players have realized their worth and the money they can get, their boards and some ingrate fans are whining. These T20 leagues are the best thing to happen to cricket. Now cricketers have an option, and they dont have to be slaves of their selfish boards. Wish there were more leagues like the IPL so that more cricketers could earn the money they deserve while entertaining genuine fans (not the ingrates).
 
a young man of exceptional talent and extremely rare temperament at such a young age, hope the mental rigors of captaining a losing side do not wear him down.
 
His batting has improved so much since the time he hit wahab for 6 in that final over.... that was a tremendous shot .... hitting a wildly swinging half volley for 6 over cover is not something anyone can do...
 
Very fine talent. If only he could add a 5k to his bowling, he can be a real all-rounder..
 
Junaids said:
You know, this is why I wish there was a dedicated IPL window when the best players could play IPL without betraying their countries. The ICL had a release clause in Shane Bond's contract which recognised that national duty came first.

Spring has been the West Indian domestic international season for decades and early summer is the start of the English domestic season. I would be all for an IPL window that did not take place between 1 April and 1 September, because the West Indies needs all the help that it can get and the tour of England should be a major landmark for everyone, but for the likes of McCullum, Boult, Southee and Williamson this year it will be ruined by a lack of preparation.
Click to expand...

This is a very good idea. Perhaps the IPL could learn from football leagues which have breaks for international cricket. There are only 8 teams anyway, if there's a two week gap in the middle of the tournament to allow England and West Indies to play a test, maybe two, each at the start of their seasons. You could bump up a couple of the Associates to play these early season tests so that only WI and England IPL players are affected.
 
Thank you IPL owners for not picking him up in the auction, and for not making him a mercenary in the eyes [MENTION=291]junaid[/MENTION] bhai
 
He's my favorite West Indies player after Lara. Such a talent. His batting has been a revelation, and I'm particularly impressed with the face he uses his long arms to generate effortless power. He hit a few delicious cover-drives and straight-drives yesterday.

After quite a long time, I've seen someone so tall look so elegant at the crease.
 
Junaids said:
In football, if your country selects you during an international window you cannot play for your club, even if you claim to be injured like Chris Gayle currently is.

IPL is the only T20 competition which seeks to poach players from national duty. I don't like the idea of special treatment for the IPL, but given that it does already poach players from national duty, I say find 4-6 weeks in the year and make it IPL-only.

That's a compromise. Not one that I like, but one that I'd be prepared to make.
Click to expand...

In football, internationals are rare and valued for precisely this reason. Moreover, no player is ever obliged to be eligible for internationals, and players can just never opt in.

Other than that, for a change I agree with you. I think it's equally scandalous that Boult, Mccullum and gang will go off to play meaningless games in England as the season reaches it's climax. Teams shouldn't have to deal with their players being pressured to leave midway through the season. Every IPL team should have full access to all it's players without national boards meddling about.

A window would solve the problem for both sides of this conflict; though in the long run of course, we will expand to 5 or 6 months and a proper season.
 
CricketCartoons said:
IPL does not poach. It requires a NOC from the respective board (which I think should be done away with). For too long cricketers have been held hostage by their boards. Now that players have realized their worth and the money they can get, their boards and some ingrate fans are whining. These T20 leagues are the best thing to happen to cricket. Now cricketers have an option, and they dont have to be slaves of their selfish boards. Wish there were more leagues like the IPL so that more cricketers could earn the money they deserve while entertaining genuine fans (not the ingrates).
Click to expand...

Exactly. And what people like Junaids deliberately obfuscate is that the prospect of earning real money is the only thing that can keep talented young sportsmen in the game. The Bosman ruling changed sports from a disgraceful era where players were literally treated as slaves and that's the mentality that the Test guys here keep advocating.

Just let the players pick without NOC's and restraints of trade. If Test Cricket is really the 'pinnacle' or the 'ultimate form' you'd think it wouldn't need all these restraints of competition to survive.
 
He has the germs to become a very good all rounder but atm his job is to bowl well and i think his bowling is well below par but i am very much impressed with his batting.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
In football, internationals are rare and valued for precisely this reason. Moreover, no player is ever obliged to be eligible for internationals, and players can just never opt in.

Other than that, for a change I agree with you. I think it's equally scandalous that Boult, Mccullum and gang will go off to play meaningless games in England as the season reaches it's climax. Teams shouldn't have to deal with their players being pressured to leave midway through the season. Every IPL team should have full access to all it's players without national boards meddling about.

A window would solve the problem for both sides of this conflict; though in the long run of course, we will expand to 5 or 6 months and a proper season.
Click to expand...

I actually agree.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
In football, internationals are rare and valued for precisely this reason. Moreover, no player is ever obliged to be eligible for internationals, and players can just never opt in.

Other than that, for a change I agree with you.

A window would solve the problem for both sides of this conflict; though in the long run of course, we will expand to 5 or 6 months and a proper season.
Click to expand...

Yeah, except it's in India.

The non-Asian players are delighted to spend 6 weeks in India each year to earn a huge pay packet. Their wives don't mind them being away for a period of time each year which is comparable to an overseas tour and the players can handle the country for that many weeks away from their mates.

Anything above 2 months would be a problem. Anything around 3 months or more would simply leave those players saying "thanks, but no thanks".

A high-earning person from Sydney would spend 2 months in India for a million dollars. But you'd need to be paying HUGE money to get people to stay for several months at a time, with the choice of their kids missing school or being dislocated from their wife and kids.

It's never going to happen.

But there is a tipping point.
 
West Indies cricket maybe in dire straits but they effortlessly churn out talented cricketers in particular all rounders.
 
Holder opened for Barbados and High School, so he always fancied himself a batsman rather than a bowler.
 
Jason Holder's spirit is commendable

I've said a few times now that Holder is not just a very talented player, but a player who has responded to being thrown into the deep end (being thrust the captaincy of a team in crisis, as a youngster) with admirable spirit. I felt sorry for him as he kept giving it his all every delivery vs SA and kept watching AB smash him for six. He said after the match that he wanted to take the brunt of AB's attack because he felt, as captain it was his responsibility.Now he's saved a test match for WI by rescuing them from a dangerous situation, and scored his first hundred.

His raised arm salute in remembrance of Nelson Mandela after he saved the game was incredibly touching. Even his instagram post shows how deeply he cares about playing for WI despite being in one of the most unenviable positions any young players in world cricket right now.

hfMsco7.png


Sign me up as a big fan. His heart is in the right place, and many youngsters playing cricket can learn a thing or two from him.
 
Definitely nothing wrong with his heart. If he could be more consistent in either his batting or more likely his bowling he would be a very useful to the WI. He's just a bit to bits and pieces for mine at the moment but there's plenty to build on as he has commitment in spades.
 
Holder now has a test batting average of above 30 and a test bowling average of below 30. Doing really well with the ball in odi cricket too.

He just gets on with his job too and never really complains (and when you play for a team like the WIs you could have a lot to complain about).

It’s just a shame that all too often he’s let down by his board and teammates. Imagine how good he’d be if he played for one of the bigger sides.
 
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Gabbar Singh said:
Holder now has a test batting average of above 30 and a test bowling average of below 30. Doing really well with the ball in odi cricket too.

He just gets on with his job too and never really complains (and when you play for a team like the WIs you could have a lot to complain about).

It’s just a shame that all too often he’s let down by his board and teammates. Imagine how good he’d be if he played for one of the bigger sides.
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Imagine if he got some proper coaching and was able to up his average speed 10 kms more, he'd be a beast at 6'7 bowling 135-140 kph. At that point his batting would just be a bonus.
 
A definite leader, needs to work a lot of bowling and batting though. His recent bowling performances have been good but needs to perform consistently. His batting needs a bit more fire though.
 
I have heard experts saying he is very good thinker of game. I was not impressed with his bowling in 2015 but now looks like he is getting better. Maybe increase bit pace and he will be complete cricketer.
 
aloo paratha said:
Imagine if he got some proper coaching and was able to up his average speed 10 kms more, he'd be a beast at 6'7 bowling 135-140 kph. At that point his batting would just be a bonus.
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Can be similar to joel garner then imo (in terms of bounce).
 
Holder - test batting average of 30+ and bowling average of under 30.

ODI batting average of 25+, strike rate of 96 and bolwing average of 31 with economy rate of 5.4.

Is there any team that he won't walk into playing XI, ODI or test?
 
He has improved a lot since being made captain. Scores vital runs and his bowling has become a lot more threatening. He's doing a good job for West Indies. Deserves a lot more praise.
 
Underrated. Would walk into most teams as an all rounder. Much better than the overhyped Faheem on PP.
 
Will walk into Indian test team! Also a very good hitter of a cricket ball, would be handy in white ball cricket.
 
Very good player.

Improved a long time since the hammering AB gave him in 2015 WC and the bilateral series before that.
 
Yes, I think he'll walk into most test teams given his form over the past year. Thought he was no more than a Darren Sammy clone, but glad to be proved wrong.
 
He's a good player. Capable with the bat, solid bowler, decent fielder and looks like a nice guy as well.
 
I didn't rate his bowling that much before, but I think his bowling has improved. He's very good in Tests. I'm not sure about him in the other 2 formats though, he's ok in ODI's but in Tests, no doubt he would get in most sides as a pace bowling all rounder.
 
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Jason Holder has a bowling average of under 30 which is superb even if he was just a bowler, then when you take into account he's a more than capable batsman, it's fair to say he is very under-rated!
 
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I think Jason Holder can become one of the best all rounders if he carries on like this!
 
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His batting is impressive. Everytime I look at the scorecard, he seems to have contributed.
 
If West indies cricket has any chance of revival, then Jason Holder is their last and best bet, both as captain and as an all-rounder. They have good players in chase, hope, braithwate, a little bit of guidance and this team can actually become very competitive.
 
Would get into every test side except England. England would pick Stokes/Woakes/Curren ahead of him.
 
Is a steady cricketer. Will crack all Asian test teams as seam bowling allrounder given scarcity of same right now. But to be fair even out of sight/out of mind guys like Neesham/Corey Anderson would get gigs in India/Pak/SL/Bang test teams as on date


Won't make SA/Eng/Aus/NZ as they can find equal/better package options.
 
pratiktc said:
Is a steady cricketer. Will crack all Asian test teams as seam bowling allrounder given scarcity of same right now. But to be fair even out of sight/out of mind guys like Neesham/Corey Anderson would get gigs in India/Pak/SL/Bang test teams as on date


Won't make SA/Eng/Aus/NZ as they can find equal/better package options.
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Holder is better than 60% of Aus and SAF cricketers who're currently **** quality. Only country he might not get into is England because of Stokes and Woakes. He is a great pace-bowling allrounder (allrounder as in actual allrounder, not bowlers who can slog or block for a couple of overs)
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Holder is better than 60% of Aus and SAF cricketers who're currently **** quality. Only country he might not get into is England because of Stokes and Woakes. He is a great pace-bowling allrounder (allrounder as in actual allrounder, not bowlers who can slog or block for a couple of overs)
Click to expand...

Aus's bowling allrounders Cummins/Starc are far better bowlers than Holder so he has to compete for batting all rounder slot. Mitch Marsh has a higher batting ceiling than Holder who has never batted in top 5-6 in any level of cricket.

SA already have Philander who is basically the Ferrari version of Holder's Mitsubishi. They don't need his trundling from 8-11 and his batting won't pass top 6 muster.
 
Hmm I don't think he makes the England side.

NZ, Pak, Bang, Zim, Afg, Ire- yes for sure.

India- I think if they had a guy that tall he'd be talked about. But India seems to select all-rounders based on IPL hype and Holder's T20 batting is pretty poor. Maybe, but perhaps not. 50/50

South Africa- Depends on the intricacy of the quota system and how they differentiate between "coloured" and "black" (which I understand they do but I don't know the target for each). He may have edged Morkel or Hilander on that basis but is not as good as either.

Australia- maybe. He'd be in a duel with Marsh. He'd need to have made runs in Shield cricket. Assuming he was good enough to do that, he'd likely have got a chance at some stage- guys like Stoinis & Enriques played Tests (or ODI & were serious chances of Test selection at some stages). So it's likely he's have got a chance somewhere when Marsh had one of his many injuries as Holder is as good/better than those guys. Whether he could hold his spot...

I can't think of many games he has managed to influence. He's a chip in cricketer. Very, very rarely actually impacts a game. Doesn't run through teams, not change complexion of a game with the bat. He's a steady, mediocre player imo.
 
Closer to chris woakes than stokes.
gradually Improved as a batsman but still plays supporting role most of the time. Decent bowler in his favorable conditions.

His odi batting numbers are disappointing.He should be averaging close to 35 considering his batting talent.

His t20i career so far has been meh just like stokes.

overall in test cricket stokes is still the best of the current allrounders.
 
Not sure what he would bring to England that Woakes and Curran don’t.
 
West Indies has some world class players who have been let down by their board (and sometimes their own actions). Holder will certainly walk into a lot of sides, but not all.
 
pratiktc said:
Aus's bowling allrounders Cummins/Starc are far better bowlers than Holder so he has to compete for batting all rounder slot. Mitch Marsh has a higher batting ceiling than Holder who has never batted in top 5-6 in any level of cricket.

SA already have Philander who is basically the Ferrari version of Holder's Mitsubishi. They don't need his trundling from 8-11 and his batting won't pass top 6 muster.
Click to expand...

Mitchell Marsh? He is a hack. Holder is better than him in both batting and bowling. Starc is barely an allrounder, and Hazlewood is a tailender. Holder can actually bat.

Philander isn't a better batsman than Holder. Holder can replace any of the mediocre middle order batsman South Africa has currently.
 
And he takes a 5 wkt haul against India in India, which is quite an achievement. Many great fast bowlers have struggled to achieve this.
 
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